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PNWjumper
Sep. 9, 2009, 02:14 AM
I know, I know. I occasionally roll my eyes when yet another person needs yet more help with a name, but I'm seriously stuck! I am ashamed that it's come to this point, but it's better to seek help than suffer alone, right? :D

I've had an OTTB off of the track for 2 1/2 years. I've been showing for 2 years (and he's life recorded with USEF) under his barn name "Billy," which just doesn't cut it (his reg. name is "Billy L," http://www.pedigreequery.com/billy+l). I've filled out name change forms with USEF about a million times, but every time I back out because it doesn't seem quite right. I decided on "Rain King" (love the song!), changed my mind. Decided on "Ergo," changed my mind. Decided on "Articulate," changed my mind. Decided on "Brilliant," still haven't changed my mind, but I feel like I've changed my mind so many times before that it's bound to happen again. Arrgghh! I'm driving MYSELF crazy, not to mention all of the people I bounce names off of!

(In the meantime, as a sidenote, I've given show names to several of my other horses without any angst!)

Anyhow, any help anyone can provide is MUCH appreciated! Should I stick with one of the names up above? Anything anyone can come up with as a new idea? I would love something that sounds like it could have come from the name "Billy" so that I don't get everyone asking who my new horse is (and part of why I like the name "Brilliant," even though it's not terribly uncommon according to the USEF recording search). The horse is a 17h bay TB with a white star that's mostly hidden by his forelock (so he looks plain bay). He's one hell of an athlete and I hope to have him in the GPs in the next year or so. He's not a terribly conventional jumper, and isn't "pretty" with his front legs (though he is quite functional!). But most importantly, he really doesn't have much of a sense of humor. I was initially going to name him "Beer Goggles," but decided that it just completely doesn't suit his personality to have a "funny" name.

Here are some pictures and videos:

http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2580883360094686761AWLVGs
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2960298140094686761YwWnnu
And a video from the 1.20m jumpers a couple of shows ago (it's a little shaky since my helper was video taping from my other horse's back):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btBLpWQtYnE&feature=channel

Any ideas? HELP! (Please? :))

fourmares
Sep. 9, 2009, 02:49 AM
Until I got to the "has no sense of humor" I was thinking Mr. Chrystal... but maybe not... There's Billabong which is a surfware company and Aussie for a small body of water... Believe... Bill Me Later... Check Please... Tae Bo (Invented by Billy Blanks)...Puffing Billy was the first commercial steam locomotive in England... Face 2 Face (Billy Joel's new tour)... Piano Man, 52nd Street, The Stranger, 12 Gardens, Songs in the Attic, (Billy Joel albums)

bigyellowmoose
Sep. 9, 2009, 03:13 AM
I like the idea of "Brilliant", but you are right that it's not terribly unusual-- how about changing it just slightly, something like "Brilliance" or "Brilliantly"?

Fourmares has some awesome suggestions-- you could also go in more of a Billy Idol direction than Billy Joel... like... Rebel Yell?? :D

mvp
Sep. 9, 2009, 07:48 AM
Puffing Billy is cute, has a story and fits the horse in the pics.

Do you want a serious, adult name he'll grow into?

Do you mind a funny name?

That might help posters get closer.

unclewiggly
Sep. 9, 2009, 09:22 AM
Bill of Goods
Bill of Rights
Or how about "William"

Mamy
Sep. 9, 2009, 09:31 AM
I like Piano Man! He is adorable!

kookicat
Sep. 9, 2009, 09:33 AM
Take a look at my site :D

Come Shine
Sep. 9, 2009, 10:56 AM
Bill Me Later (little nod to Buckpasser)
Bacardi
Billy the Bay
Just Bill Me

He looks like a lot of fun.

Hauwse
Sep. 9, 2009, 11:17 AM
Just a suggestion, though it may not be fun, and I am sure a lot of people will scoff at the idea.

I think it would be nice/beneficial if we TB owners would tag our horses with something that relates to their heritage, if not their JC names.

In your horses case, I don't understand how they got Billy L. out of Dance at Dinner and Honey Sugar, but I guess it happens enough if the sire was not a successful runner.

Anyhow in your horses case I see he is 2x5 Tom Fool, on both the sire and Dam side, and if you look a little further back you have a lot of the Teddy bloodline, top and bottom. Teddy being a fairly influential TB sire in European WB bloodlines. Up closer you have a some very note worthy horses as far as hunter/jumpers, well, and racing go, Dr. Fager, Turn-To, Never Bend, and Northern Dancer, though they are every where here in North America.

Just a thought.

On another note, and again just a thought, after watching your pony's video, and I am not being critical in anyway, but watching him I think he may have the scope and ability to do a great deal, otherwise I would not bother saying anything, but I do not think that his jumping style is 100% the way he wants to jump.

He may always want to be a little below vertical with his forelegs over his fences, but I think the way he wants to roll over his fences is not an inherent part of his jump, and the everything else unorthodox about his jump is coming from that.

Just a thought again, I watched the video about 20 times now, and I am sure there is something motivating his jumping style.

LudgerFan
Sep. 9, 2009, 12:19 PM
Hmmmmm......after watching the video numerous times as well, I have to concur with Hauwse. I suspect saddle. From my experience with TB's, they can be terribly hard to fit as their toplines seem to alter on a daily basis, and are even more terribly sensitive to small fitting problems! It seems the saddle is sitting a bit low in front, perhaps putting pressure at the base of the wither, maybe inhibiting some scapular rotation? If so, can't beat an older Hermes Steinkraus for fitting those TB's...nothing fits the shape of their backs so well...

Blacktree
Sep. 9, 2009, 12:19 PM
I really like Brilliant.

Here are a few ideas:

Bill Me
Been There
Thrill Bill
Boomerang
Bramble
You Bet
Willy Wonka
Bye Bye Billy
Chilly Willy

JinxyFish313
Sep. 9, 2009, 12:25 PM
Glad I'm not the only one who thinks he jumps like it hurts.

I'd cal him Retro ;)

akrogirl
Sep. 9, 2009, 12:41 PM
Billy (or William) the Conquerer

Billy Liar

Vesper Sparrow
Sep. 9, 2009, 12:44 PM
Gorgeous horse!

I love "Bill Me Later"--perfect for an OTTB jumper.

It's wierd, but I don't mind his registered name, "Billy L". Kind of a double-take on all those alphabetic warmblood names like xxxx Z and xxxx K....

TKR
Sep. 9, 2009, 12:47 PM
What a handsome horse! I loved Gate Dancer (grandsire) and alot of his pedigree -- lucky you!

A few thoughts:

Slick Willy
Pay the Fiddler
Wild Bill
Cover Charge
Counterfeit
Check Please
Second Notice
Billy Bob
PayPal

Good luck!
PennyG

showponies
Sep. 9, 2009, 01:30 PM
What about ..Dinner and a Dance...I do like the suggestion of William...

Your horse is nicley bred on the bottom side about 3 gens. back.

LindsayK
Sep. 9, 2009, 02:57 PM
How about Billy the Kid?? :)

I also like William! Think it's innocent and sweet!

Elfe
Sep. 9, 2009, 03:03 PM
William Tell

Dune
Sep. 9, 2009, 03:07 PM
I like Brilliant, William, or even his registered name. A LOT of the imported WBs have some similar type names, but then I'm not one for changing horse's names. :no: My only other suggestion: Let's Go Dutch (play on who pays the bill;))

Puglet
Sep. 9, 2009, 03:09 PM
I don't have a specific name recommendation, but I love to browse titles of jazz standards for horsey name ideas. I guess it's the musician in me :D

Check this list out. Perhaps it will give you ideas?

http://www.jazzstandards.com/compositions/index.htm

suebee26
Sep. 9, 2009, 03:10 PM
Brilliantly Billed
Brilliantly Built

rabicon
Sep. 9, 2009, 03:29 PM
Dollar Bill
Call me Billy
Running Tab
Majestic
Billy Bob :lol::lol:
Billy the Kid
Wild Bill
Show Bill
Worth every Dollar

NeverEnd
Sep. 9, 2009, 03:39 PM
Billy Elliott -- ("dancer")
Bill Me
Just Bill
Call Me Bill

englishivy
Sep. 9, 2009, 04:14 PM
I like the name "Fits the Bill" as in:

"I wanted a great jumper, and this one fits the bill."

I also like "Bill and Coo" which is an old fashion term meaning to talk quietly and kiss someone you love. Although I don't know if that's the type of relationship you want to portray :lol:

TwoDreamRides
Sep. 9, 2009, 07:16 PM
My initial ideas were Fit(s) The Bill and Bill Me Later, but I see they've been mentioned already.

During Clinton's presidency, we named a "Billy" at our barn Mr. President.

You could also do:
Biltmore
Vanderbilt
Built To .. [Run, Last, etc]
Pays The Bills [he has to win for this to work!]

bornfreenowexpensive
Sep. 9, 2009, 07:33 PM
In your horses case, I don't understand how they got Billy L. out of Dance at Dinner and Honey Sugar, but I guess it happens enough if the sire was not a successful runner.



I don't know where they come up with some of the names....but suspect Billy L. was probably named after a person. My newest horse's JC name is "Loveton".....not sure where they pulled that but I doubt it was from his pedigree...and his sire is somewhat famous (FWIW--I'll probably compete him under this name as well).
http://www.pedigreequery.com/loveton



Anyway for the OP..Billy L. isn't bad and neither is just Billy.....I do subscribe to the old wives tales and unless the name is really bad...just keep his JC name. Keep your money and don't bother changing his name.

Nauset
Sep. 9, 2009, 08:32 PM
All Business :cool:
or Down To Business

PNWjumper
Sep. 10, 2009, 02:02 AM
Thanks for all of the suggestions, guys! I've definitely got some more to think about!

Hauwse, Ludger Fan, and JinxyFish:
Two disclaimers: 1) this is long, and definitely not something everyone has to read at the risk of boring those of you helping with the names to death :lol: 2) I just got back from a LO-ONG day of horseshowing, so I may ramble just a little bit! I apologize in advance.

First off, you guys aren't far off. He was a pretty "broken" horse (bodywise) when I got him. He couldn't hold a canter, was virtually unable to use his back, and as a result I've had him in a very intensive bodywork and conditioning program for the last 2 years with two very very good bodyworkers (one is my chiro/vet and the other is what I call my "voodoo lady" :)). As happens with a "very changing horse," it's been tough to find a saddle that fits as well as I want it to fit. After trying eighteen million saddles (okay, maybe I'm exaggerating by one or two) over the course of two years, I finally settled on a County Innovation about 2 months ago. I finally feel like he's giving me his back when I ride AT HOME. I love the new saddle, but I'm still not 100% sure that it's THE SADDLE.

He's kind of a funny horse, and my body workers say that there's no tightness in his back any longer when they're working on him, and boy are they not prone to missing or underexaggerating things.

So on that note.....have any of you found that you have horses with a saddle that doesn't fit right but isn't causing any soreness? My guy is an uber-sensitive TB and it's usually VERY easy to feel when he's not comfortable. He doesn't feel uncomfortable, and it feels like his jumping style is getting stronger and less unorthodox by the day (we moved up to 1.30m today and he felt GREAT in the bigger class).

Without knowing the horse I definitely wouldn't disagree that he looks like he's evading the use of his back and "springing over the jumps" (um, mostly because he IS!). But two things happen when we go to shows. The first is that he gets kind of funny about the bit. I had him in a french link 3-ring because it was the only thing I could find that was soft enough to get him to pull on, but still gave me the ability to get him off of my hands when he wanted to bear down after a fence. He still wasn't totally comfortable, though. I just switched bits on him again last week and found that a french link happy mouth 2-ring bit is even better. For the first time ever he's rounding over his topline and continuing with an engaged back up to, over, and after the fence. With the other bit he still had the tendency of wanting to tuck his nose to his chest and curl, curl, curl behind the vertical or flip his nose up and invert his entire frame right at the base of the fence. You can see in the video that I ask for a half halt a couple of times and get a big overreaction. I don't get that with the new bit.

So next question. For those of you that see discomfort in the picture, does it look like it could be a result of a horse trying to "escape" contact with a bit?

The second thing is that he reverts back to overreaction boy (which is obviously also part of the first thing) and tends towards LAUNCHING himself over the jumps entirely from his hind end. He has a massive hind end which is more powerful than the rest of his body, and he's always tended towards using that to make up for any deficiencies (bad distances, funny fences, etc.).

And I guess a [kind of] 3rd thing is that he has always wanted to carry himself in a short frame (clearly stemming from bad body time), and it's taken a lot of playing dressage to get him willing to carry himself in a more forward and fluid frame (IOW, more air time to his canter). So now I have to remember to squeeze him off of the ground when he gets a little short so that he carries a little more "forwardness" over the fence and a little less "sproing." When I do that he seems to jump in a much more correct frame. Right at 1:00 in the video (over the black and blue oxer) was the distance/pace I liked the best in that round. Letting him carry himself a tiny bit short in a line and then riding the last stride to the base of the fence seems to make him the happiest. I will say that the improvement this horse has made over the last 4 or 5 shows is outstanding, and I realize that I'm going to have to stop calling him "unorthodox" soon. He is a completely different horse relative to where he was at the beginning of the season.

So that's some of his backstory. I'm not trying to make excuses (and hope it doesn't come off that way). I've gotten some brilliant advice from some REALLY talented COTHers in the past (Mac123 I miss you, and TidyRabbit I'm not forgetting about you! :) -- to name a couple), and I'm very interested in hearing anything you guys have to say. I certainly wouldn't have posted the video without being open to critique. I agree that the horse is very talented and has the scope to do much bigger things. I want to do (and am willing to do) whatever it takes to make him as comfortable and well rounded of a horse as possible.

ETA: .....and that includes finding him a "real" name!

lesyl
Sep. 10, 2009, 02:30 AM
Billet a Deux, french for love letter.

fourmares
Sep. 10, 2009, 03:32 AM
A couple of Billy Idol songs / albums... Whiplash Smile, Charmed Life, Adam in Chains, Beyond Belief, Congo Man, Crank Call, Daytime Drama, Love Calling, Mony Mony, Power Junkie, Promises Promises, Ready Steady Go, Soul Standing, and of course, Rebel Yell

tullio
Sep. 10, 2009, 09:15 AM
Totally not in any of the themes you asked for, but looking at his first two pictures, I thought of "Don't Look Down" - it looks like he is kind of surprised at how high up he is ;)

Other than that, I love "Billy Elliott" - it is one of my favorite movies and a great character to name a horse after.

LudgerFan
Sep. 10, 2009, 09:42 AM
I just thought of Rockabilly....kinda fun...

VA_Hunter_Aside
Sep. 10, 2009, 10:01 AM
I love the William Tell. Gosh you guys are imaginative! Great name suggestions. I love Bill Me Later and Bill of Rights too!!

ArthurGuinness
Sep. 10, 2009, 10:35 AM
First of all nice horse!! I have a soft spot for OTTBs and he is a nice solid one. He also looks like a blast to ride!! I really like the name you suggested Rebal Yell. I think it would be an awsome name for an OTTB! First of all he is a TB which you dont see at the big show anymore because of the WB craze and it looks like you could kick some but with him!! Lets make some noise for Rebel Yell!! That sound good!

tidy rabbit
Sep. 10, 2009, 10:38 AM
PNWJumper,

I have a myler hackamore that a couple of mine have really loved. I never use it any more, if you want to borrow it and see if it would work for him I can get it out to you. Let me know.

Also, I was thinking of your name problem yesterday and was going to txt you an idea but since I was driving with the horse trailer... hahaha, I thought better of it. You know, safety first and all.

Anyways, for some reason I really like "C" names...

"Casadores" is my suggestion. Plus, it's a type of Tequila... so there ya go!

see u at x
Sep. 10, 2009, 10:52 AM
Hmmm...a rock star jumper who's name happens to be Billy. "Billy Squier" comes to mind.

PNWjumper
Sep. 10, 2009, 11:19 AM
PNWJumper,

I have a myler hackamore that a couple of mine have really loved. I never use it any more, if you want to borrow it and see if it would work for him I can get it out to you. Let me know.

Also, I was thinking of your name problem yesterday and was going to txt you an idea but since I was driving with the horse trailer... hahaha, I thought better of it. You know, safety first and all.

Anyways, for some reason I really like "C" names...

"Casadores" is my suggestion. Plus, it's a type of Tequila... so there ya go!

Thanks, TR! I think that the happy mouth 2-ring is my "magic bit" right now. I'm so amazed at how much of a difference a relatively minor change is making with him. I'll let you know if I change my mind, though. I'm doing a clinic with Greg Best in a couple of weeks and he's quite the "bit player." I think he might actually be happy with what I've [for now] settled on. Last time he had me ride in a hackabit with double cheek pieces (one on the noseband and one on the bit), but even that gave more "grab" than what I have now.

As for names...I like the "C" names too, which is "handy" since I have a C-line Holsteiner baby (my Charlie horse), and I like the name Casadores! Of course that means I now have to decide between that and "Up Chuck" which is what I may not be able to resist calling him (he has a serious sense of humor unlike my Billy horse :lol:).

oh and p.s. Good call on not texting while driving the truck and trailer. You better keep those painted boys safe for my visit next summer! :D

JinxyFish313
Sep. 10, 2009, 11:48 AM
I don't think the bit is causing the spring-jump. Knowing more of his history now, I'd guess that he's probably so used to jumping that way from when it DID hurt to use himself properly that he doesn't trust that it won't hurt him now. How does he handle really long spots?

seeuatx
Sep. 10, 2009, 01:14 PM
What about Conquest... in the theme of William the Conqueror

JA
Sep. 10, 2009, 01:58 PM
My question is if you think the horse is not comfortable then why do you have him showing in 8-10 classes over jumps that are 1.20m +.... That amounts to way over 100 jumps in the show ring alone

Mac123
Sep. 10, 2009, 02:22 PM
Ok, here I am!

Here's my take on Billy (it's gonna be a novel, sorry. And I'm strung out on coffee, so bear with me. WAY too much mocha!). And I am terrible at names, so there's no help from me in that regard!!

Billy reminds me a lot of my Enzo. They are big, lanky fellows with more athleticism than they know what to do with. They are also built so that truly carrying themselves correctly and being "through" is NOT their default. Combined with track training (I can't remember if Billy is OTTB or not) and you have a horse whose first instinct is to get a bit long and rambly, particularly at the canter. This translates directly to their jumping styles. They don't naturally know how to contain themselves and use themselves efficiently and with good technique. This must be trained and cemented in using consistent training; I find it doesn't just happen.

I know how much body work your horse's get, and I do not think it is a soreness issue (or at least it isn't NOW). (as a side note, what I have discovered about TBs and saddle is that if the fit isn't *perfect* they do not give their 100%. It may not be causing pain or soreness, but they like it just so. I ride Enzo in an old pain hermes steinkraus. I would recommend a similar saddle to that...don't you have an old PDN? Might try that. Those old saddles are just build for the TB back).

I find that jumping style is directly related to what you have on the flat. Jumping exposes all holes and weaknesses! What I see is that he is not truly bearing up and carrying behind, he is not through with his back and correctly engaged, and is not soft laterally to your leg. As a result he gets a bit rambly and downhill and locked through the neck...and what you get is a funky jump where he isn't soft through his back and jumps up OR straight across because that is easier. He also lands strongly against your leg in a couple places.

This is exactly how Enzo goes if he is not going well on the flat. And the thing is, these types are very good at fooling you that they are going well on the flat!! Very good at tucking in, or pretending to carry (while evading with the stifle) and faking it.

I know what you are doing to try and correct this because I have done exactly the same things! And it results in exactly the same jumping style with Enzo! So I feel your pain. But I have gone back to the basics, and this is what has been giving results. And Enzo hates me for it! :) And I am not sure this is exactly what you might WANT to hear, but here it is anyway.

In your flatwork, I would be doing primarily all work on the circle or bending lines. I do leg yields, s-i, and h-i on the circle to get him through and yielding to the each leg (note, he will want to step away from the leg instead of yielding through the spine. Each lateral movement should be followed with a moment of counter lateral movement to ensure that they are stepping into the outside aids, not through them). When he gets soft and carrying and stepping into the aids instead of away from them, begin transitions between and within the gaits, riding forward into a passively restricting hand. He must engage, he must yield to the hand, he must not dump on shoulders or step out with hind legs. Ride him forward and make him straight. Which is WAY harder than that simple mantra sounds!! Do lots of serpentines, flat figure 8s, requiring him submit and be soft to each change of direction. Any straight lines should be started with either s-i or h-i or l-y to correct whatever tendency he has that direction (enzo carries his hindquarters to the outside to the left, so h-i, and his shoulders out to the right, so s-i). This isn't a one-ride process, it's a month of consistent work to get them consistently there.

With jumping, I would do all jumping off the circle. I would begin with 5-6 cavaletti to wide ramped oxers with a generous groundline (9-12in). The caveletti encourages him to bear up with his hind end and stay rythmic and not rush, the trot requires him to really push and carry correctly with the hind end (as well as giving you more control), and the oxer requiring him to push over and across. Don't use landing placement poles, this will cause him to jump too UP and not across. You must insist that he stay off the inside leg and land on the correct lead without blowing through his outside shoulder. This is SO not easy and it will take a bit for him to figure it out. Expect a lot of awkward jumps. Yesterday, we ran into a standard in his desperate plea to not carry and compress the outside hind. ;)

Using a following hand is an absolute must if you are going to influence him during this exercise. If you give a crest release, he can contort himself at the last minute.

Keep the fences big enough to discourage him getting drapey up front and to require strength and push and carry from behind but not big enough that it is too much. I would start at 3' and end at about 3'6 for him.

Only once he is soft against the leg at the trot would I go back to cantering fences, and again, only off bent lines until you can maintain alignment and engagement. Only then would I do straight line gymnastics or related lines. If they cannot maintain it on the circle or bent lines, they definitely cannot on the straight lines.

We know Billy has a huge jump, just like Enz. But if you don't take time to develop and confirm his style and technique, you won't reach his full potential. Ludger Beerbaum jumps only gymnastic-type exercises until they jump in good form every time. Only once their style (ie. straightness, throughness, submission, power, etc) is confirmed can they maintain that during coursework. Some horses have technique naturally. Some, like Enzo and Billy, I think are naturally athletic but are so gangly and uncoordinated that we must teach them technique and style.

Once you have that, I bet he will be a superstar!!!

Just my 2 cents.

I have to go, more later, but this should be a good start. I hope that helps

JinxyFish313
Sep. 10, 2009, 02:50 PM
Excellent post Mac. Its been a few years since I've started foundation flat work with one (most of my clients' horses just require maintenance of their flat work) and I recently started working with a student's appendix that has been going incorrectly for years. I had forgotten to keep in mind some of the things you mentioned, thanks for the reminder :)

Hauwse
Sep. 10, 2009, 05:43 PM
MAC123 has given you some excellent suggestions for working toward his potential.

I just want to support the idea that he does need to learn to jump efficiently. Simply put once he figures out that there is a much easier way to jump it will be like a lightbulb going on over his head.

I know if I was working with him I would do two things, outside of lots of flat work, all my schooling would be at the trot, regardless of the height of the fence, and I would really be changing the bit. I think the combination of MAC123's suggestions, lots of troting fences, and working on bending lines, will definately eliminate any control issues. I think right now even though you are NOT stiffing him in the air he is still avoiding that bit when he jumps.

However I am sure GB will have him on the right path instantly, and no doubt will help with any bit changes if necessary.

Good luck at the clininc, would love to hear how it goes.

veritas
Sep. 10, 2009, 11:31 PM
Great flatwork and jumping exercises!
Back to names. . .the two "bill" names I thought of: Playbill and Just Billy

tidy rabbit
Sep. 10, 2009, 11:36 PM
This is whack but you could call him Lewinsky.

Bill... + Monica + the L in "Billy L"

DancingQueen
Sep. 10, 2009, 11:46 PM
BILL ME LATER!
I love this name. It conncets with Billy, it's funny and it has three words to it (seems to almost me a requisite theee days)!

If you don't use it I will! Heck I might still use it! LOL

forestergirl99
Sep. 11, 2009, 12:48 AM
Until I got to the "has no sense of humor" I was thinking Mr. Chrystal... but maybe not... There's Billabong which is a surfware company and Aussie for a small body of water... Believe... Bill Me Later... Check Please... Tae Bo (Invented by Billy Blanks)...Puffing Billy was the first commercial steam locomotive in England... Face 2 Face (Billy Joel's new tour)... Piano Man, 52nd Street, The Stranger, 12 Gardens, Songs in the Attic, (Billy Joel albums)

I LOVE Bill Me Later!!! That is awesome!!!

PNWjumper
Sep. 11, 2009, 01:03 AM
My question is if you think the horse is not comfortable then why do you have him showing in 8-10 classes over jumps that are 1.20m +.... That amounts to way over 100 jumps in the show ring alone

Because I don't think he's "uncomfortable." Like any horse, I think he has issues with using his body correctly, and I'm hyper-sensitive (and maybe overly worried most of the time) about making sure that he's comfortable and performing well within that comfort zone. I feel like the horse thinks the fences and the courses are easy mentally and physically at this point. I wouldn't be doing them otherwise. I don't think I have his tack 100% correct yet (actually, now that I have the new bit on him I'm pretty happy with it), and I think with green horses you have to keep a sharp eye out for any changes.....especially with a prone-to-overreaction (and very sensitive) TB. I'm a panicker about the saddle fitting correctly and totally understand that a saddle that fit yesterday could be completely wrong a month from now. But like I mentioned before, I'm as certain as I can be that he's comfortable through his back at this moment in time. But I absolutely do not discredit the sharp eye of COTH posters, and Mac123 has had suggestions based on videos for me in the past that are ridiculously spot-on!

Mac123--He is an OTTB (raced for a year when he was 4 and 5) and to answer your question, he handles long distances really nicely. Powers over them and jumps in textbook form. As usual, I think your suggestions are spot on, and pretty much describe, for the most part, what I've been doing with him (more and more in the last month or two now that he's "graduated" to the "strong enough to handle more intense lateral work club"). I work almost exclusively over fences in a circle because it's been helping him "find" his inside hind leg in each direction. Jumping the "circle fence" has made him a MUCH straighter horse on a straight line.

He's also the horse that has taken over the top spot in my dressage lessons, and most of our focus is on him now. We do a lot of lateral work and have been doing a bunch of different exercises to get him to come through his back with a big step underneath himself with his hind end WHILE staying soft. I love that you just summed up the jumping work that Greg Best has had us doing AND the work that my [very talented] dressage instructor has had us doing all in one post. Want to come be my full time trainer? :D

With that being said, very interesting point (Mac123 and Hauwse) about trotting fences. We have not been doing a lot of trot fences. That is absolutely something to add to his repertoire. And Mac123, you are absolutely correct about the landing pole. When he was less broke on the flat he had a tendency to jump WAY past the normal arc of the fence and was landing a solid 6' past where a normal horse lands. I tried adding landing poles and all it did was make a horse who jumped UP more. I quickly learned that the only solution to that particular problem was LOTS of flatwork (to get him strong enough to stay soft through the arc of the jump) and wide, rampy jumps that produced the arc that he needed to have.

I do ride this horse with Greg Best every 6 months (and have been for a while), and an amazing dressage person every other week.
--As a side note, we also changed his shoeing in May (thanks to a collaboration between Greg Best and my shoer). Added a 3 degree wedge pad to his left front and a 2 degree wedge pad to his right front. It changed how he balanced left to right and made a (positive) difference in how he positioned his front end and hind end during flatwork.
--But my point is that I've had some very talented eyes on him watching his progression, and I'm not overly worried about overfacing him or overdoing things with jumps. As I mentioned, the bit has been changed and I am totally amazed at how much of a difference it's made to make a somewhat minor change (3-ring french link to 2-ring happy mouth french link).

I'll post some more videos (maybe in an appropriate thread?! :lol:) at the end of the show we're at this week if I'm allowed to ride after a bad fall today (apparently there's a new USEF rule about not being allowed up show if there's a suspected head injury until you have a note from a doctor clearing you). Probably worth mentioning that it wasn't a fall on this horse, it was a freak fall with my "finished" AO Jumper mare who stumbled and fell in a one stride (I managed to "catch myself" mostly with my face...ouch!). Which leads me to the disclaimer that if this is a little ramble-y or hard to follow, I did sustain a pretty major whack to the brain today, so you'll have to excuse my lack of brevity!

And thank you again to all of you with GREAT name suggestions! Despite the slight bipolar nature of this thread I'm LOVING reading through all of the name ideas! :)

TrotTrotPumpkn
Sep. 11, 2009, 02:21 PM
Want to come be my full time trainer? :D



I was thinking the exact same thing...

Going to watch a Best clinic next week. This thread has me more excited.

Mac123
Sep. 11, 2009, 06:55 PM
Aw, shucks, guys. *embarrased* While I'm a St. Louis gal at heart...I never mind traveling! Just kidding.

Take care of your noggin, PNW!!! So sorry to hear about your fall. Is Socks okay?

Just wanted to add: the trotting jumps will help, help, help. But don't expect a beautiful jump school the first few times out. Expect the jumping efforts to feel weak and "blech" in the beginning. He simply will not have the strength to jump a good sized fence from the trot in correct form. He will probably feel like he lacks power, hanging in the air. Or, he will *pow* over them using speed and force instead of soft athleticism. Enzo decided that jumping ALL the cavaletti and then bouncing to the jump was obviously the easier, and thus better choice. Then he decided that coming in without engagement and jumping straight up in the air (staying there for a good hour or so) was the next best choice. It took a lot of convincing that trotting straight up to the base, soft around the leg, and then jumping up, around, and across, could conceivably be considered good. And when he finally did, I didn't like it because it felt weak....but it's exactly right and will get stronger with time.

These TBs are SMART, much smarter than the WBs, and I find will do whatever it takes to make their job easier....which often does not translate to being correct. So look for the jump being awkward or weak. That's when you know you are doing it right.

Also, make sure that your flatwork is not too good and peaceful. What I mean by that is that horses offer resistence when the rider is asking for good, hard work. Them saying "NO, sorry, don't feel like it, too hard" is a good sign. If he is perfectly happy, he's probably evading somewhere, and its probably subtle. Obviously I don't mean to create resistence and tension, but pushing the envelope keeps them honest, and good positive tension only brings out their best. THEN the soft ride can be reintroduced with the horse carrying himself correctly. But softness all the time breeds mediocrity. Without seeing flat videos, of course, I have no idea if this applies, but I thought I would mention it because it has applied to every TB I have ever sat on.

lesson junkie
Sep. 11, 2009, 07:20 PM
Sweet William? Like the flower-and because of his mother's name.

tpup
Sep. 12, 2009, 08:21 AM
I love Bill Me Later, and also Rain King. He's beautiful! :)

PNWjumper
Sep. 12, 2009, 12:18 PM
Take care of your noggin, PNW!!! So sorry to hear about your fall. Is Socks okay?


Thanks Mac! I got a note from a walk-in clinic yesterday morning allowing me back in the show. So Thursday ended with a CAT scan in the ER via ambulance. Yesterday ended with Billy winning the 1.25m jumpers, the 1.30m Jr/AOs and then winning the Jr/AO Jumper Finals Class. I couldn't have been more pleased with him!

It turns out that Socks completely somersaulted in the 1-stride and my [poor] saddle was ground down at the cantle showing exactly where she went over. The vet came over to look at her in the morning just to verify that she needed to be scratched for the week, and my tough little mare was totally sound and not noticeably sore or stiff. I guess we both got REALLY lucky with that fall (well, my face not so much since it looks like I slid along some sandpaper!). So I rode her in a little 1.15m jumper class yesterday (which she won, though it wasn't a big class), and then scratched her from everything else. My poor girl was such a trooper and went around as brave as can be, even through the 2-stride made up of the same fences as the 1-stride she flipped over in on Thursday.

I'm really excited to try out the trotting fence exercises. I've noticed such a change in Billy with just the lateral work and LOTS of transitions (and believe me when I say that the work is never "just easy" :lol:). Like you mentioned, he's smart as a whip and definitely knows how to get out of work with subtle evasions. I love my warmblood mare for how obvious she is when she tries to evade work! :)

And back to names:
I'm really leaning towards just William. The announcer keeps calling him "The Horse They Call Billy" and I really like that, but it's WAY too long to write on the entry forms and I think I'm too lazy for that. :lol: I also like "Conquest." Why is this SO hard on this particular horse???!!!

Justice
Sep. 12, 2009, 01:33 PM
I LOVE the feedback you got from Mac123, and clearly, the horse is getting top notch care and training. I should get such good bodywork!

I think the reason you are struggling with a name is because he is special, so you want him to have a special name. My personal opinion is that the horse makes the name, not vice versa. You could keep his name Bill, and it would still get him the respect he deserves. But, since you asked... I love William! I would not name him Brilliant, because Mark Watring's got a breathtaking grey grand prix horse named Brilliant who's pretty well known on the West Coast. Let's face it, you already won a couple of big classes on him, so people know who he is. Congratulations on making up such a nice one!

Mac123
Sep. 13, 2009, 03:27 PM
Thanks Mac! I got a note from a walk-in clinic yesterday morning allowing me back in the show. So Thursday ended with a CAT scan in the ER via ambulance. Yesterday ended with Billy winning the 1.25m jumpers, the 1.30m Jr/AOs and then winning the Jr/AO Jumper Finals Class. I couldn't have been more pleased with him!

It turns out that Socks completely somersaulted in the 1-stride and my [poor] saddle was ground down at the cantle showing exactly where she went over. The vet came over to look at her in the morning just to verify that she needed to be scratched for the week, and my tough little mare was totally sound and not noticeably sore or stiff. I guess we both got REALLY lucky with that fall (well, my face not so much since it looks like I slid along some sandpaper!). So I rode her in a little 1.15m jumper class yesterday (which she won, though it wasn't a big class), and then scratched her from everything else. My poor girl was such a trooper and went around as brave as can be, even through the 2-stride made up of the same fences as the 1-stride she flipped over in on Thursday.

I'm really excited to try out the trotting fence exercises. I've noticed such a change in Billy with just the lateral work and LOTS of transitions (and believe me when I say that the work is never "just easy" :lol:). Like you mentioned, he's smart as a whip and definitely knows how to get out of work with subtle evasions. I love my warmblood mare for how obvious she is when she tries to evade work! :)

And back to names:
I'm really leaning towards just William. The announcer keeps calling him "The Horse They Call Billy" and I really like that, but it's WAY too long to write on the entry forms and I think I'm too lazy for that. :lol: I also like "Conquest." Why is this SO hard on this particular horse???!!!


Yikes!!! What a freak thing. SO glad you both are okay. Did she trip or was it a wonky distance? At least Billy's success made up for it!

Let me know how the trotting jumps goes. Feel free to send over some video if you want, I'd be happy to see how he's coming along!

Btw, I think you should call him "Just William." The name William is subtly distinguished, and it kind of lets him speak for himself - that he's not "just" an average horse but his simple name reflects his simple, elegant nature. Enzo's new show name is "Fiorano," compliments of Ludgerfan. Enz is named after the Ferarri, and Fiorano is a racetrack in Italy. And the name is a bit fluffy which appeals to Enzo's metro nature. :)

LudgerFan
Sep. 13, 2009, 03:47 PM
Mac123, there's apparently a Ferrari model named the Fiorano after the Ferrari test track, too! :D

pmysliwski
Sep. 13, 2009, 05:30 PM
How about

Billiard
Bastille
Blink
Bailiff
Barrister
Bearing
Brox

Mac123
Sep. 13, 2009, 06:09 PM
Mac123, there's apparently a Ferrari model named the Fiorano after the Ferrari test track, too! :D

Cool! Maybe I can trace its outline on his haunch next time I bodyclip him. Then again, that would take some technique.

PNWjumper
Sep. 13, 2009, 08:42 PM
Yikes!!! What a freak thing. SO glad you both are okay. Did she trip or was it a wonky distance? At least Billy's success made up for it!
Let me know how the trotting jumps goes. Feel free to send over some video if you want, I'd be happy to see how he's coming along!


I'm not sure what she did that caused her to flip. Unfortunately there was a taping error and the round didn't get taped, darnit! I think she slipped a little as she took off for the jump which caused her to take off funky and split the pole between her knees, which in turn caused her to land on her knees rather than her feet. Sure wish I could watch it in slo-mo!

Billy just kept on with the blue streak! He was champion in the 1.25m jumpers and champion in the 1.30m Jr/AO jumpers. I gotta say that after winning 5 coolers in the last 2 shows I'm thinking that poor Billy deserves to have a "real" name :lol: (I'm still leaning towards William, which seems to suit his personality). My little Bibi mare (didn't I send you videos of her?) also did really well and was Reserve Champion in the AA Jumpers Low and picked up a bunch of good ribbons in the AA Jumpers High (with a kid riding, not me).

I'll get my nanny to tape me jumping Billy after the GB clinic and send you some clips via e-mail. I'd love to get your take on a few things that I'm still working through.

I love the name Fiorano, by the way! It really does suit Enzo!

stoicfish
Sep. 13, 2009, 11:19 PM
Bet The Farm

thegirlwonder
Sep. 14, 2009, 09:54 AM
Jumpers are hard... my husband and I used to be addicted to World of Warcraft and he had a character named "Wowbay" (knock off on Ebay) and I thought it would be amusing to name a jumper, especially a Bay one, Wowbay. The "wow" speaks for itself, as does the "bay". Hope you come up with something original and something he won't come off silly with.

thegirlwonder
Sep. 14, 2009, 09:58 AM
Bilt In
Bills on the Fridge
Putitonmybill
So a Duck Walks In (referral to a very old "Bill" joke)

Sorry, I'm just more of a funny name girl. Good luck!

englishivy
Sep. 14, 2009, 02:34 PM
Fun/trendy: will.i.am (member of the black eye peas)

fancy: Fitzwilliam (the first name of the infamous Mr. Darcy in Pride & Prejudice).

PNWjumper
Sep. 14, 2009, 06:56 PM
Fun/trendy: will.i.am (member of the black eye peas)

fancy: Fitzwilliam (the first name of the infamous Mr. Darcy in Pride & Prejudice).

Ha ha! I was joking around a few months ago that I was going to name him bill.i.am. But I was afraid that it would get pronounced "Billiam" :lol:

I like the idea of "Wowbay" too. That's really cute!

kmsf
Sep. 15, 2009, 12:45 AM
Willpower
Willoughby

spaced
Sep. 15, 2009, 01:09 AM
Billboard
Billabong