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View Full Version : What would you do if this was your horse?



City Ponies
Sep. 8, 2009, 01:28 PM
OK this is merely hypothetical, horse is NOT for sale and probably never will be. So please answer this as honest both as an owner and trainer.

I train a few horses a year, both resales and for clients. My personal horse Reno is my baby, have had him since he was a weanling and have been waiting 4 long years to show him myself. He's doing great .. BUT...

He's a 15.1 (may still squeak out another inch - family is slow growing) a predominately pleasure/ranch bred QH but built much more athletic like his relative Zippo Pine Bar. Has the kind of mind you want to buy for a million bucks on every horse, unflappable and tries his heart out even if halfway over he decides the jump might be a bit scary but will never give it a second look. He's a hack placer, but spectacular jump. Probably will top out a 3' - 3'3" horse consistantly (though his scope has been getting better the higher we are schooling). Needs a confident ride to new fences, cluck and squeeze for encouragement but no spurs or crop needed, can put a beginner on him to hack. Problem: I have a 95% feeling he will never make the strides in pretty fashion. He's just got a gorgous fluid canter, just about a foot too short. He is adjustable enough to make the add pretty, but trying to push for the long ends more times than not in a long spot, still pretty but more unpredictable.

What would you do with him? As a trainer I'm limited to open divisions, so he may be a local/schooling hunter forever. Do I lease him to a good Ammy/JR for Children's or Pre-Adult divisions? I won't sell him b/c "one day" I want my kids to go through the SS and up on him. I can't afford 2 now, and my money that I would be investing in a resale project is going into Reno's shows (cuz he's just sooo fun to show). I don't think I would complain about sticking to the local level divisions for a while, but I think he would be more competitive with a specialized division. And I would like something that could be more versatile by making the stride. He's only 4 and still "in training" and the number of competive Jr/Ammy riders around here seem to be limited.

luvs2ridewbs
Sep. 8, 2009, 01:38 PM
What about the QH circuit? It seems to me (maybe someone can chime in here) that they are shorter then the USEF lines? Set to a 12 foot step, while USEF seems to creep the lines out

JinxyFish313
Sep. 8, 2009, 02:41 PM
A pretty, consistent add wont kill a rider in the Children's or Adult Hunters....lease to a student who wants to show him in either of those, and you can still show him in schooling, hi-low, whatever hunters for your own enjoyment and to keep him tuned up.

ExJumper
Sep. 8, 2009, 03:48 PM
A pretty, consistent add wont kill a rider in the Children's or Adult Hunters....

A consistent add MIGHT be okay in the 2'6" divisions, but it absolutely WILL kill you in the Children's and Adult hunters. Those are 3' divisions that have combinations that can't be safely done in an add stride.

JinxyFish313
Sep. 8, 2009, 03:53 PM
A consistent add MIGHT be okay in the 2'6" divisions, but it absolutely WILL kill you in the Children's and Adult hunters. Those are 3' divisions that have combinations that can't be safely done in an add stride.

99% of Ch/Ad Hunters are four simple lines, and when there is a combination where you can't add, you move up and make it work. I have done and have seen it done countless times without any safety or ribbon ramifications.

If you can make it look nice, its definitely preferable to RUNNING to make the strides.

City Ponies
Sep. 8, 2009, 04:00 PM
A consistent add MIGHT be okay in the 2'6" divisions, but it absolutely WILL kill you in the Children's and Adult hunters. Those are 3' divisions that have combinations that can't be safely done in an add stride.

Granted we're schooling these combo's at 2'3" right now, but he can do the one-stride/2-stride combo's OK, if I ask him for good momentum into A then push him for the long through B. It's just not as graceful, but can be done safely.

His shortness and adjustability has made him great at rollbacks and bending lines. I think it really just depends on the show, like I said, the locals seems to set normal 12' strides, but we've started schooling the longer "stretched out" distances you find at bigger shows and it's been a struggle for him.

Does anyone know the heights for the AQHA shows? There are a TON around here, moreso than H/J shows... might be an option...

ExJumper
Sep. 8, 2009, 04:09 PM
99% of Ch/Ad Hunters are four simple lines, and when there is a combination where you can't add, you move up and make it work. I have done and have seen it done countless times without any safety or ribbon ramifications.

If you can make it look nice, its definitely preferable to RUNNING to make the strides.

I have NEVER been to a rated show that didn't have a combination in the Ch/AA hunters. I shown in the Chicago area now. Perhaps in your area this is different.

And I can't imagine pinning a horse highly that added up in the lines and powered through the combinations. There are many horses that can make the strides nicely without RUNNING. Those that can't shouldn't be doing the division.

JinxyFish313
Sep. 8, 2009, 04:29 PM
I have NEVER been to a rated show that didn't have a combination in the Ch/AA hunters. I shown in the Chicago area now. Perhaps in your area this is different.

And I can't imagine pinning a horse highly that added up in the lines and powered through the combinations. There are many horses that can make the strides nicely without RUNNING. Those that can't shouldn't be doing the division.

Of course there are horses that can make it without running. The OP indicated that her horse has trouble making the strides. If you can safely make it around the course doing the adds and have it look just as pretty as the horses not adding, there is no reason to say the horse "shouldn't be doing the division".

I showed for 18 years in Zone 2. The most interesting thing you'd see at a local B show, or even the smaller A shows, was a single fence. Yes you'd see trickier things at bigger A shows, but the OP mentioned local level stuff.

ExJumper
Sep. 8, 2009, 04:42 PM
If you can safely make it around the course doing the adds and have it look just as pretty as the horses not adding, there is no reason to say the horse "shouldn't be doing the division".

I think this is where we disagree. I don't think that a horse who has to add down the lines can EVER make a combination look "just as pretty as the horses no adding."

And of course the horse can do the division, but it's not going to pin if it adds up everywhere. So of course it can DO it, but I just don't think it will win or get good ribbons. And no -- the goal of everything isn't ribbons, but no one wants to go out in the ring knowing that they don't have even a chance, do they? So why not do the 2'6" which are set on softer strides to begin with, and where adding isn't as harshly penalized.

But again, I've never done hunters where you are. If she is in an area like yours where horses are adding up and there aren't any combinations, then by all means give it a shot. But if she's in an area like MINE, she's not going to get a ribbon. Even our lower-rated shows have courses with different combination elements.

Won For Fun
Sep. 8, 2009, 04:50 PM
I am not sure where you showed in Zone 2, but I have shown in the adults in Zone 2. Once I won all the over fences except one class...I added in a line. Beautiful add...some didn't even notice. I pinned 4th out of 4. I have NEVER seen a horse add in the adults even if the horse was a really good jumper get pinned over anyone who made the numbers unless everyone else was dangerous.

JinxyFish313
Sep. 8, 2009, 05:47 PM
One add is different than a consistent add throughout. "Local" for me was Long Island.

TSWJB
Sep. 8, 2009, 05:54 PM
i am in zone 2 and if you add, you dont get a prize unless everyone else is really bad!
even in the 2.6ft if you add, you dont get a good ribbon. around here you have to do the #'s. and i show at local C rated shows and they have in and outs in the schoolings and yesterday i jumped a triple in the schoolings. not good to add up.

Guin
Sep. 8, 2009, 06:13 PM
Maybe you could borrow a treeless saddle for awhile until he finishes growing?

City Ponies
Sep. 8, 2009, 07:15 PM
Maybe you could borrow a treeless saddle for awhile until he finishes growing?

Not quite sure what this has to do with it.. but ok :)

Again.. hence my conundrum!! Locally, adding in a otherwise flawless round is not that big of a deal. Locally.. we'd clean up if everything else was perfect, we just don't have any uber nice hunters in the area. However, since we only have about 1 local show every 6 weeks, and trailering 2+ hours to anything else other than a Rated is the only other option I'm trying to find other solutions.

He doesn't have to run to make the stride, but he does have to push, longer spots and bigger step.. just not as pretty if you know what I mean.

I mean what does everyone else do with a really nice Hony??? LMAO:lol:

I used to show in Zone 2 as well, and adding (unless on a pony in an open division) was a no-no. Around here, it's pretty simple courses, I haven't seen a combination yet the most was a single fence and rollbacks/broken lines. But then again I haven't seen a division higher than 2'6" fill either.

I've been watching some of the rounds of AQHA world show, it seems that may be the direction we need to go... unfortunatly.. I loathe QH shows around here. But at least it may give us a good shot of winning some classes respectively. Any other suggestions from those with honies?? Or anyone have good growth hormones... I just need 2 more inches of leg!!

TallyTaz
Sep. 8, 2009, 07:38 PM
For the Quarter Horse aspect, here is a link to the South Carolina QH Association.
http://www.scqha.com/ They have a calendar of events listed.
Also, for the past couple of years they have held the Regional Experience in Clemson which I have never attended, but have heard good things about it. Basically it's a show for people to come out and try classes they may have never shown in before, or to try a quarter horse show. The AQHA website might have more information for you. Hope this helps!

DancingQueen
Sep. 8, 2009, 07:54 PM
Maybe he would be great for the smaller Eq divisions? If you can find a kid who wants to to the Maiden or Limit. In my experience the lines are not set quite as long and alos if your rider is looking to do mostly C-rated shows she could most likely get away with addsing up as long as she found all her spots, most kids in this division will have some issues and a neat prety round will go a long way.

Also if you are looking to keep this horse for your kids it might not be a bad idea to kid proof him in the meanwhile. Get him used to figuring out a way to help himself over smaller jumps.
IMO in the smaller "learning how to show" divisions a horse that will chip or pack is better then "the launch for the big one". The launch will be much more likely to unseat and spook a kid then the experienced add when the horse feels that is the better choice.
I wouldn't think twice about leasing him out to a good kid at your barn. You'll be able to keep an eye on things and put some trainning rides in. The kid will have a great stepping stone horse that might make her want to step up and own her own horse to show in the future and you will get your horse kid-proofed in the meanwhile.

City Ponies
Sep. 8, 2009, 08:56 PM
Unfortunately the only thing SCQHA offers is the Hunter Hack, no other O/F classes except for Eq. They don't fill so they don't offer. The Regional experience I believe does have them.

I wish there was a kid I could lease him to for next year or even start letting them ride this fall. But no one that does the 2' - 2'6" level needs a mount, they all have their own horses. And they youngers moving up seem to all be extremely hand heavy, he needs a much softer ride and I don't feel comfortable even letting them try. I have had a friend, a junior, at the barn hope on him to hack. She's around a Limit Rider level, I told her to keep loops in the reins and just give quiet cues and use voice commands and he packed her around. He is still green over fences, and he's so much fun to ride to me that I don't mind spending the time getting him mileage myself. He doesn't need a pro-ride to pop x-rails at the trot, he's figured that out ;) .. but he still needs the "yes, jump now" encouragement around a 2'3" course.