Canter horse, whatcha think?

[hearthorse]

http://canterusa.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=664:stunning-162-hand-bay-gelding&catid=49:charlestown-trainer-listings&Itemid=282&directory=282

Comments about this guy? What do you think about buying a prospect with an old bow?

[evans36]

He's nice looking. As far as the old bow - I bought mine directly off the track with a bow. It hasn't been a problem. BUT he was sound on the bow when I bought him. I would be a bit leery of buying one that is still healing - definitely talk to the vet, and get ultrasounds before you go that route.

[BeverlyAStrauss]

It would help to see the leg and the position and severity of the bow.....

[RiverBendPol]

Beverly, I was thinking the same thing! They ought to at least show the thing!
Heart, the horse is lovely but boy o boy, a bow scares me. No such thing as a free horse, after all.
A few questions to ask yourself:
-What do you want to do with him?
-Do you have the time, money, patience and space to heal a bow?
-Do you enjoy rehab?
-What will you do if the bow DOESN'T heal?
-Do you have the balls to do what's right for the horse if he doesn't work out to your satisfaction?
Good luck, he seems like a sweetie pie. I hope it all works for you both:)I LOVE his face. His hind end may be a bit weak or maybe it is just the photo angle...

[GotSpots]

If you're looking at Charlestown, this one (http://www.canterusa.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=685:3-year-old-black-gelding&catid=49:charlestown-trainer-listings&Itemid=91&directory=91)is gorgeous, and no bow.

[hearthorse]

All the canter sites have some gorgeous looking horses right now!

[forestergirl99]

If you're looking at Charlestown, this one (http://www.canterusa.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=685:3-year-old-black-gelding&catid=49:charlestown-trainer-listings&Itemid=91&directory=91)is gorgeous, and no bow.

I like the other horse better. He looks more.....substantial. lol. I'm not a fan of the tiny little wispy things. However, the bow would bother me. Honestly, that would be a deal breaker. I've dealt with lameness problems before, and I want my horse to at least be sound/clean when I buy it.

[keeneland]

i used to think i would never have a horse with an old bow. After talking with one of the best track vets in the country he said they are usually no problem, as long as you are not planning on racing the horse again. It is more a visual disturbance than anything else once healed. The most important thing is to let it heal completely and you should have a sound horse. I wouldn't let it totally push you away, there are many great horses out there with old bows!

[Jleegriffith]

If you are interested email one of the CANTER volunteers and ask them to take a picture w/o bandages. I know many times when we stop in a barn the horse has just been done up and they simply don't want to take off the bandages but if I stop by again and the horse isn't done up then I retake the pics.

I really like him! Bow's don't bother me in lower level eventers if the horse has been properly rehabbed.

[dexhol]

So when are we going to get him? ;)

[MintHillFarm]

Bows don't bother me either. I had a very successful A/A hunter that showed all over, did the First Yrs and A/Os with me as well.

I gave mine a year off, turned out daily though, before I hacked him. Then I gave him 1 yr of flat work before he jumped anything. He was 3 when he bowed, so it he was 5 yrs old before I went right on with him. He was not easy to prepare to show, and the bow held up just fine.

I would go see this one and have a vet look at it while you are there. A low bow is better than a high one...

Also - this is not an old bow, so be prepared to give him plenty of time. If he were mine, he would have the winter off turned out and see where we are in the spring.

[subk]

If you're looking at Charlestown, this one (http://www.canterusa.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=685:3-year-old-black-gelding&catid=49:charlestown-trainer-listings&Itemid=91&directory=91)is gorgeous, and no bow.

Yes! And he's got an amazing, amazing pedigree for sport. A friend drove up there--10-12 hours--after a vet flexed him sound. Pulled him out of the stall and he might be 14.3/15. NOT anywhere near the 15.3 as listed. She had to pass because of the size and drove home with an empty trailer. If anyone is looking for a smaller guy who is incredible on paper, very nicely put together, sound on a basic vetting this horse is your guy!

[GotSpots]

Subk - I'm so glad you said that. I thought he was gorgeous, and glad to see my eye hadn't gone completely to pot. Good to know he's that small, though - since at 15.3, I'd take a chance that he'd grow, but less than 15 and I'm not taking the risk for a resale. Good bone on him despite the size though.

[subk]

Subk - I'm so glad you said that. I thought he was gorgeous, and glad to see my eye hadn't gone completely to pot. Good to know he's that small, though - since at 15.3, I'd take a chance that he'd grow, but less than 15 and I'm not taking the risk for a resale. Good bone on him despite the size though.
He is only three, so he's sure to end up bigger, but 16 would be a big stretch. Lovely, lovely shoulder. Nicest pedigree for sport I think I've ever seen on a CANTER horse. http://www.pedigreequery.com/no+halo3

A friend saw him first and had "dibs." If she hadn't gone for him I would have. I'm 5'10" and I'd do 15.3 but I just can't do anything smaller. But man oh man, if I was 5'5" I wouldn't think twice about his size--resale be damned.

[JER]

Nicest pedigree for sport I think I've ever seen on a CANTER horse. http://www.pedigreequery.com/no+halo3


I'd do a very thorough screening to make sure he had an adequate amount of intelligence. All the Turn-to/Hail to Reason/Halo would make me be really, really careful.

I thought his neck was a little long for his age. But that's not particularly scientific, just my general impression based on what I look for at 3.

His size would be a plus for me. I like a small horse.

[OneMoreForTheRoad]

you could also look at www.horseadoption.com
thats where I got my OTTB from and he is amazing. they don't generally have anything under 4 but they get a lot of nice horses coming through them and they really work hard to give them a good foundation for their work outside of the track.

these are some of the horses we've gotten through them:
http://tinyurl.com/m6lyxl
http://tinyurl.com/l392jh
http://tinyurl.com/nwub34
http://tinyurl.com/mfxpav

[Keep1Belle]

I'd do a very thorough screening to make sure he had an adequate amount of intelligence. All the Turn-to/Hail to Reason/Halo would make me be really, really careful.

I thought his neck was a little long for his age. But that's not particularly scientific, just my general impression based on what I look for at 3.

His size would be a plus for me. I like a small horse.

i actually just bought this guy. he is tiny, but he will grow. I looked up what I could on Hay Halo, seems to be of decent temperment.

Im not too worried about the size, if he doesnt work out for me, he is sweet enough that with some training he'd be good size for a kid or small adult.

[JER]

i actually just bought this guy. he is tiny, but he will grow. I looked up what I could on Hay Halo, seems to be of decent temperment.

Im not too worried about the size, if he doesnt work out for me, he is sweet enough that with some training he'd be good size for a kid or small adult.

Congrats!

I don't know about Hay Halo's temperament but his sire did not have the best reputation. It sounds like your new guy is okay.

Hay Halo is out of the same mare as Broad Brush. :)

My current 4 year-old, out of a 16hh mare and a 15.2 1/2hh stallion, may be in line for a pony card next year. She has been tiny from birth. But she's a blast to ride and can handle a 5'8" rider just fine.

For those of you who like little TBs, here's the great UK pony showjumper Colton Maelstrom (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1dlhbrnpdI), a 14.2 hh TB who dominated the pony GPs for many years with many different riders.

[subk]

i actually just bought this guy. he is tiny, but he will grow. I looked up what I could on Hay Halo, seems to be of decent temperment.

Im not too worried about the size, if he doesnt work out for me, he is sweet enough that with some training he'd be good size for a kid or small adult.

Congrats!

I'm so happy to see him go to a possible sport horse home. All those close relatives with long racing careers is a big plus too!

[Keep1Belle]

Thanks guys!!! Im excited to see how he fills out and progresses.

[Time_for_Tea]

So when are we going to get him? ;)


Another Road Trip!!! hehe:winkgrin:

[riveau]

We have a Hay Halo and he's as sweet as can be. Can be a tad bit stubborn at times, but nothing compared to all his good qualities.

He's 16.2 and is very substantially built. His former race trainer told us that he matured fairly slowly, so I wouldn't be surprised if your guy grows a bit more.

[hearthorse]

So when are we going to get him? ;)

Hubby is going to kill me!!

[mcorbett]

yeah, I'm the one who went to see No Halo. 24 hour round trip drive. He was listed as 15.3 and I'm guessing he wasn't more than 14.2 or 3 and about 800 pounds. Am I justified in being perturbed at the CANTER listing AND the PPE vet for telling me he was considerably larger than he was?

Should I have bought him anyway? Would it have been worth it to have just thrown him in the trailer considering how much time and money we already invested getting there and back?

I just called my husband to tell him that someone had bought him. We are so glad he's not at the track anymore but I'm still so frustrated (and just now crying) over being decieved and not knowing what we should/shouldn't have done. Buying and selling horses is a lot of risk and heartache. I'm flustered.

[Jleegriffith]

As someone who does track listings it is not always easy to tell height. I do my best to step up to the horses and really get a good judge on height but many times the trainer whip that horse in and out so quickly for pictures you never get a shot at standing next to them which is why a prepurchase is always recommended. I try to under estimate if anything so people aren't disappointed. For the horses that I personally take pictures of I make sure to walk up to them when they are standing on level ground. I would also say that maybe not all the volunteers have a trained eye for height so sometimes the horses might be smaller or bigger.

I think a 3 yr will grow but if only 15 h now I wouldn't expect anything more than 15.2. I sell a lot of horses and that height is very difficult to sell especially if they are not quiet enough for ammy's or kids. So sorry you made that trip to be disappointed. He looked nice but from his pictures he looked small.

I have actually never had a vet stick a horse for measurement during a PPE. I suppose many vets don't measure and don't GET why height is so important to those of us looking for show horses or resale projects.

[caffeinated]

re: photos of the OP's horse - these were sent to us by his owners, and he is in VA, so not sure if we could get other ones. As for the bow issue, my favorite horse in the adoption program has an old bow and is doing just fine on it, jumps great and is just as sound as can be. Seen others that have done quite well with them too, so I'd probably take the risk. :)

Apologies that the height on No Halo wasn't as advertised - I generally have to eyeball it when I go, but am thinking we should start carrying tapes. Still not as good as a stick but better than jotting down whatever the trainer says.

[HiJumpGrrl]

I know a CANTER horse with what is now an old bow going P, completed the T3D in FL this year, and may aim for a CCI* eventually :)

He was on stall rest for a while after we picked him up at Tractor Supply, it got cold and hard (and he had the requisite foot remodel, including abscesses, etc), and hasn't taken an off step on it since. We loff Larry the Lip--he might even have a fan club in Area II.

[MintHillFarm]

yeah, I'm the one who went to see No Halo. 24 hour round trip drive. He was listed as 15.3 and I'm guessing he wasn't more than 14.2 or 3 and about 800 pounds. Am I justified in being perturbed at the CANTER listing AND the PPE vet for telling me he was considerably larger than he was?

Should I have bought him anyway? Would it have been worth it to have just thrown him in the trailer considering how much time and money we already invested getting there and back?

I just called my husband to tell him that someone had bought him. We are so glad he's not at the track anymore but I'm still so frustrated (and just now crying) over being decieved and not knowing what we should/shouldn't have done. Buying and selling horses is a lot of risk and heartache. I'm flustered.

I feel badly for you! I honestly don't know why the heights on some are gotten incorrectly. I really don't think it was intentionally deceptive though I would have thought the vet would know how tall he was...When I saw the photo of him, I thought he could be smaller than what was said as the person holding him looked very tall, however sometimes it is a bit of a guessing game...photos too can be very misleading...

I went to Suffolk in MA from central NY twice and then to a farm near there all within 10 days to look at horses. I feel your pain in all the effort and time on the road. Look at this way, if he were next door to you, would you have passed on him because of the size? You likely made the right call, and went with your instinct. It seems he went to a great home so for that we are all happy...You will find another one. Next time though, set up appointments to see more than one horse...I made the mistake of only looking at one horse my first trip up to MA. So I drove 500 miles without maximizing the time...The next time I looked at 7...

Good luck and don't be discouraged!

[subk]

I honestly don't know why the heights on some are gotten incorrectly. I really don't think it was intentionally deceptive...
16 hands is absolute magic in horse sales. I'm afraid I'm not as optimistic as you about whether gross misrepresentation of a horse's height is done intentionally or not.

[MintHillFarm]

I have always been of the mindset that some people really don't know and pull a number out. But maybe you are right about the 16hh theory and that is the magic number...

The ones I saw at Suffolk were pretty much as described in height...

I saw one advertised in the Blood Horse years ago as a project off the track (not sure why they went to the expense of a display ad in the back) and it said he was 17.3. I figured they couldn't be right and he was likely closer to 16.1 or 2. But when I got to the farm, sure enough he was every bit of 17.3. Needless to say I bought him and 10 yrs later is still here with me!

[caffeinated]

I think as far as our volunteers go, it's absolutely not intentional. Though sometimes I do believe they might take a trainer's word for it. Even then, some trainers just don't have an eye for height - it doesn't really matter much in the racing world, so I've had people say horses are "huge" and at least 16.2 when they're more like 15.2. I've also had people at the track say a horse might be 15.3 and they pull it out and it's more like 16.3. Then one time a guy told me the horse was, "no lie! 18.6 hands!!!"

I think we really do just need to start carrying tapes. I generally estimate based on eye level - direct level with my eyeballs is 16 hands, so that's typically what I go by.

I really would hate to go see a horse and find out it's a full hand smaller than advertised, so we'll be trying to get more accurate estimates :)

[abowls]

HH, are you going to go get Captain Zim? I fell in love with him based on his picture. He's nearly the twin of my horse and I've been cyber stalking one of that trainers other horses whose personality I fell in love with.

[mjedge808]

As for carrying tapes, the other thing you can do (it will sound silly) is use a measuring stick on you. Get an idea of where 15, 15.3, 16, etc is in relation to your shoulder, nose, eyes, top of your head and so on so that if you can't use the tape or something at least you can have a close ballpark.

[carolinagirl191]

mjedge808, your siggestion is exactly what i do and I do a refresher with the stick just to keep myself honest. I can tell fence heights and horse heights using me as the measuring stick. Comes in real handy too when changing courses at schooling shows.

[mcorbett]

Thank you, caffeinated!

It would be awesome if when volunteers took pictures they could also double check the horse's height and name (so horse's pedigree, age and # of starts can be verified). I wish there was a track near me so I could be a CANTER volunteer on a regular basis. I'm so thanful for the organization! These little follow-thoughs will help us potential buyers do OUR part in making the organization a success!

[judybigredpony]

I think as far as our volunteers go, it's absolutely not intentional. Though sometimes I do believe they might take a trainer's word for it. Even then, some trainers just don't have an eye for height - it doesn't really matter much in the racing world, so I've had people say horses are "huge" and at least 16.2 when they're more like 15.2. I've also had people at the track say a horse might be 15.3 and they pull it out and it's more like 16.3. Then one time a guy told me the horse was, "no lie! 18.6 hands!!!"

I think we really do just need to start carrying tapes. I generally estimate based on eye level - direct level with my eyeballs is 16 hands, so that's typically what I go by.

I really would hate to go see a horse and find out it's a full hand smaller than advertised, so we'll be trying to get more accurate estimates :)

Heres a great TIP, I stick myself to the shoulder and when I stand next to the horse I have a good gauge on his hieght.
Or when I take a friend I stick them and have that person stand next to the horses withers. If you know how tall you are or your freind its not to hard to figure 4inches to a hand.

[AliBus]

not related to original post -- but looked at site based on other poster's response...I am in LOVE too bad I can't afford another one!

http://horseadoption.com/long-legs-louise/

She's gorgeous!!

[Heinz 57]

Someone needs to go get that mare that AliBus just posted, NOW!

She's LOVELY!

[vineyridge]

New Vocations has a chestnut gelding, blacktype winner, 6 yo, named Electrify.
http://horseadoption.com/electrify/

Excellent pedigree for eventing.
http://www.pedigreequery.com/electrify5

I'd be on this guy like a duck on a junebug. One of y'all should seriously consider him.

[horsey nurse]

there is a giveaway under the laurel section that is a nice chestnut TB gelding that doesnt have an old bow, I would take him!