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shawneeAcres
Sep. 4, 2009, 10:39 PM
OK another vent! READ THE AD PLEASE! had someone inquire about a pony I have for sale, ad specifically states the height, age, price of pony as well as what divisions he has shown and height he has jumped. So they email wanting more pictures (whatever, had four on the ad PLUS a video). I send pictures and information about the pony as well as a link to the pony on my website which has THE PRICE, THE AGE and THE HEIGHT HE JUMPS (again!) So I get a third email from them.

this is what it said:

"How big is he? My clients want no smaller than a 14 hand horse/pony. What is your asking price? What height has he jumped? "

DAMMIT MAN! READ THE ADS!!!!!!!! GRRRRRRR

Wanderluster
Sep. 4, 2009, 10:43 PM
You just can't cure stupid. :mad:

shawneeAcres
Sep. 4, 2009, 10:50 PM
My husband said to tell them the price just went up $500 for being STUPID! LOL But I am the "consumate professional" and would NEVER consider such a thing (snicker snicker!!)

hellerkm
Sep. 4, 2009, 10:57 PM
My husband said to tell them the price just went up $500 for being STUPID! LOL But I am the "consumate professional" and would NEVER consider such a thing (snicker snicker!!)

Hubby has the right idea, but YOU will get the pony sold LOL!!!!

spmoonie
Sep. 4, 2009, 11:01 PM
My husband said to tell them the price just went up $500 for being STUPID! LOL But I am the "consumate professional" and would NEVER consider such a thing (snicker snicker!!)

Sometimes you have to make exceptions. Unless you are in desperate need of selling the pony, I would be tempted to say it. :D

dainty do
Sep. 4, 2009, 11:29 PM
I have had ads out before and folks will leave messages saying they are interested and leave their phone number to call back. When you call back, you suddenly realize these people have left about 20 other messages, and they have NO idea which is your horse.

The guys that called you, probably called about 20 others, and they can't remember which pony is yours. Help them out by saying, I have the 14 hand grey pony jumper that was advertised on..

VarsityHero4
Sep. 5, 2009, 12:17 AM
Oh that's nothing! I had a call from a very young sounding girl, figured she was probably 15/16 and was just very independent. No harm done so I humored her, she asked those same questions after saying she had found the ad on such-and-such site (price, height, DOES HE JUMP?!). After she called me the next day and when I answered she was singing to the radio and complaining that she couldn't find the ad anymore, however she didn't have any questions for me. So I said, "You sound pretty young, how old are you?" and she replied, very matter-of-factly, "I'm 11." So I asked her to have her parents or trainer call, never got a call from either.

Since then I make it very clear in my ads that if the viewer is under 18 to have a trainer or parent call. 11?! Really?!

tBHj
Sep. 5, 2009, 12:23 AM
Off topic a little but... I hate when people don't state the age, or height of the equine in the ad.

superpony123
Sep. 5, 2009, 01:14 AM
people are idiots! my mom sells stuff online, and she gets questions all the time like "what are the measurements of this handbag?" --meanwhile, we put MEASUREMENTS in BIG BOLD FONT in HOT PINK at the very TOP of the ad, so people will SEE IT!! yet we still get questions.

and it's even more of a nuisance when someone returns something because "well, i thought it might be a lot bigger!" :mad: are you kidding me?! ugh. way to waste my money and yours with shipping! :no:

so i guess this whole thing isn't (thankfully? or maybe not?) just in the horse world. i mean, stupidity is everywhere :lol:

meupatdoes
Sep. 5, 2009, 08:02 AM
So Shawnee,

what is your "last price"?

:)

pnalley
Sep. 5, 2009, 08:06 AM
I advertised a yearling registered Appaloosa, gelding, bay with a blanket & spots, 4 white socks and a blaze.

The girl that called me wanted to know what kind of blanket it was? A winter or turn out blanket:D:D

GilbertsCreeksideAcres
Sep. 5, 2009, 08:09 AM
I bet if you DID raise the price by $500 the potential buyer would say, "But your ad says $500 less than that!" proving she is capable of remembering facts in ads when it affects what she really considers important.

luvs2ride
Sep. 5, 2009, 08:23 AM
No harm done so I humored her, she asked those same questions after saying she had found the ad on such-and-such site (price, height, DOES HE JUMP?!).

Depending on the fanciness of the horse you were selling, it couldn't hurt to ask. Too many times looking for my first horse I ended up trying a pony that "only responds to voice commands", happens to be blind, is tremendously green, or in fact goes western and only jumps logs in turnout when told it could be a children's hunter.
I've learned its best to be thorough with these things, no matter how dumb you may sound :D

S A McKee
Sep. 5, 2009, 09:28 AM
OK another vent! READ THE AD PLEASE! had someone inquire about a pony I have for sale, ad specifically states the height, age, price of pony as well as what divisions he has shown and height he has jumped. So they email wanting more pictures (whatever, had four on the ad PLUS a video). I send pictures and information about the pony as well as a link to the pony on my website which has THE PRICE, THE AGE and THE HEIGHT HE JUMPS (again!) So I get a third email from them.

this is what it said:

"How big is he? My clients want no smaller than a 14 hand horse/pony. What is your asking price? What height has he jumped? "

DAMMIT MAN! READ THE ADS!!!!!!!! GRRRRRRR

This is your second vent in less than a week about dumb buyers.
Think about it.

S A McKee
Sep. 5, 2009, 09:50 AM
OK, I looked at the ads on your website.

In two cases there are 2 prices quoted for the same horse.
One price on the sales page and another price on the detail page.

I'd guess one is a typo as it $3000 on the sales page and $300 on the detail page.
The other one has a $2000 difference in price.

You say two of the sales horse have shown "C Rated showing"
To me that means C rated USEF shows.
But I can't find either one on USEF's recording/HID search.

So did you mean unrated shows, not USEF shows?

Im sure if I was looking at your sales horses I'd need to have a LOT of information clarified.

KC and the Sunshine Band
Sep. 5, 2009, 09:59 AM
S A McKee, you know not what you do. Or maybe you do? You're going to wake up the monster that lies below. chhooooo choooo

Usually if there is a consistent theme in someone's complaining, they are the common denominator.

USEF C rating is NOT the same thing as local level showing. Calling a local level unrated show C level is incorrect. Get it straight would you?

shawneeAcres
Sep. 5, 2009, 10:44 AM
Look folks its just a simple thing to read an ad, sorry about the "price descrpancies", the owner of one horse asked me to lower the price, need to do it on her page, big deal, the other obviosuly a typo. Secondly we have "C" rated NCHJA shows here in NC, they are NOT USEF rated and nowhere do I say that, but they ARE under USEF sanctioned if that makes sense and are NOT local shows. If a horse shows locally then that is what I STATE if they show "C" rated in NC then it is a NCHJA "C" rated show, period. If you'd like I can point you to places that you can verify their NCHJA show records, sheesh! Look I sell a lot of horses and do rather well, I am TOTALLY up front and honest and all I ask in return is READ THE AD. SImple huh?! :rolleyes:

Some people on this site really like to stir Sh*t when there is none to stir! I simply asked WHY can't people read when I have TWO ads stating the facts, thats all, not asking for your "input" thanks!

S A McKee
Sep. 5, 2009, 10:52 AM
Secondly we have "C" rated NCHJA shows here in NC, they are NOT USEF rated and nowhere do I say that, but they ARE under USEF sanctioned if that makes sense and are NOT local shows. If a horse shows locally then that is what I STATE if they show "C" rated in NC then it is a NCHJA "C" rated show, period. If you'd like I can point you to places that you can verify their NCHJA show records, sheesh!



USEF rated shows are C, B ,A , AA. Or a 'local' rating.
The only other possibility is a show sanctioned by USHJA under the new Outreach program. Those shows are not USEF rated.

A C rated show implies that it's USEF rated. In many areas of the country there are more than 50 USEF C rated shows a year. Those shows count for zone awards and require that the horse have a USEF ID number.

If the shows you refer to in your ads are truly USEF rated I would be able to find your horses recorded with them and also be able to find USEF results.

Your website uses the term "C Rated showing". Doesn't say NCHJA shows or explain that you don't really mean USEF shows.

Lori
Sep. 5, 2009, 10:57 AM
I have had ads out before and folks will leave messages saying they are interested and leave their phone number to call back. When you call back, you suddenly realize these people have left about 20 other messages, and they have NO idea which is your horse.

The guys that called you, probably called about 20 others, and they can't remember which pony is yours. Help them out by saying, I have the 14 hand grey pony jumper that was advertised on..

This is what I was thinking, too. :)

enjoytheride
Sep. 5, 2009, 11:00 AM
Well if that's the kind of response you give no wonder you're not selling your horses! The person you rolly eyed at obviously had some valid questions that a potential buyer would also ask and you could edit your adds to clearly answer those questions preventing even more confusion on top of the stupid questions.

Trixie
Sep. 5, 2009, 11:46 AM
Ok, selling horses sucks. We GET IT.

Shawnee, this apparently along with training is your livelihood. If it's that stressful and awful for you that everytime a buyer asks a "STUPID" question you're going to go onto the internet and complain (with CAPS!) about it, maybe you need to reconsider your approach. Otherwise, it's REALLY unprofessional to keep going onto the internet and yelling about how everyone else is stupid and ignorant, and it makes me, as an outsiderwith a checkbook, not want to ever consider buying a horse from you.

Secondly, SA McKee has some good points. Prices are not consistent on your website. Also, around here, if a show is "C" rated, it's USEF "C" rated. That's the industry standard for H/J. If your particular corner of the industry has something else "C" rated, you need to state that so people know what the heck you're talking about.

Third, rolly-eyes and nastiness at perfectly VALID questions may be why you get some of the response that you do. I don't think SA McKee was "stirring sh*t," as you so delicately put it, I think it was a VERY valid inquiry. And your response was nasty, and further, not particularly clear. I get it that you come here to vent, but if any of that comes out in how you treat your clients, it's not going to bode well for you. And further, seeing this all over the internet may prevent new clients from coming to your barn.

Maybe you're right, maybe you're totally justified. But selling horses is an industry where, frankly, there's a lot of crazy. Take a deep breath, and remember that there's likely a paycheck at the end of it. It won't help to wreck your reputation by reacting to these people.

Ajierene
Sep. 5, 2009, 12:29 PM
I worked in retail as a top sales person for almost a decade. When I started rolling my eyes and being short with customer that had apparently silly questions, I realized it was time to get out of the business.

Taking a critical look, I realized that three years ago those same questions did not seem silly - it was just hundreds of people asking 'what's the difference between sanded and unsanded grout? Sanded is cheaper, are you sure I cannot use it on wall tile?'

Legitimate questions, but my annoyance with them increased - so...ShawneeAcres....might be time to get out of the business.

Trixie
Sep. 5, 2009, 01:17 PM
I have had ads out before and folks will leave messages saying they are interested and leave their phone number to call back. When you call back, you suddenly realize these people have left about 20 other messages, and they have NO idea which is your horse.

The guys that called you, probably called about 20 others, and they can't remember which pony is yours.

Yes, but there's a reason for that. I have a friend who had the low 5-figures in her pocket to spend on a horse and every intention of buying one within a month or two. She's a good horse owner, with plenty of experience, and had a good barn lined up in which to keep them. She had a horse trailer at the ready.

Half the sellers didn't bother to call back.

She wound up leaving messages for a lot of people because so many didn't return phone calls or emails. By the time one did get back to her, she'd wind up having to ask for clarification on which horse it was - and lets face it, bay TB's in Virginia on dreamhorse at $12K and under, well, there are about 50.

If she just called about 1-2 horses per week and then waited for someone to actually return her phone calls, chances are it would've taken her quite a while to find her horse.

ponies123
Sep. 5, 2009, 01:24 PM
In NC/SC and as far as I am aware in most of the SouthEast C shows are NOT USEF shows, but they are USEF sanctioned and follow USEF standards/rules, etc. But no USEF is not behind them. NCHJA is. The horses on Shawnee's website appear to be the type of horse that does really well at the C shows in NC. They are not 6 Figure horses who are ready to step into the 3'6" ring at an AA show nor are they a pro. horse, etc. They are the type of horse who will MORE THAN LIKELY sell in this area. No offense but if you are in the north east (where they DO have USEF-Recognized C shows) why would you be looking for a 2'3-3' C show horse all the way in North Carolina. Doesn't make sense. I am willing to bet MOST of Shawnee's buyers are from this area. To them, stating C Rated shows means exactly what it means to me and any other person that rides and shows in NC. It means NCHJA C Rated shows. FYI NCHJA also has their A shows, but the A shows ARE recognized by USEF and count for points, etc.

There are NO USEF Recognized C shows in North Carolina.

Plumcreek
Sep. 5, 2009, 02:00 PM
Look folks its just a simple thing to read an ad, sorry about the "price descrpancies", the owner of one horse asked me to lower the price, need to do it on her page, big deal, the other obviosuly a typo. Secondly we have "C" rated NCHJA shows here in NC, they are NOT USEF rated and nowhere do I say that, but they ARE under USEF sanctioned if that makes sense and are NOT local shows. If a horse shows locally then that is what I STATE if they show "C" rated in NC then it is a NCHJA "C" rated show, period. If you'd like I can point you to places that you can verify their NCHJA show records, sheesh! Look I sell a lot of horses and do rather well, I am TOTALLY up front and honest and all I ask in return is READ THE AD. SImple huh?! :rolleyes:

Some people on this site really like to stir Sh*t when there is none to stir! I simply asked WHY can't people read when I have TWO ads stating the facts, thats all, not asking for your "input" thanks!

Heh. It is much easier to lower your expectations than to try to raise the reading comprehension level of the entire pool of SE United States horse buyers. Creates less stomach acid also.

Vitriolic
Sep. 5, 2009, 02:13 PM
Look I sell a lot of horses and do rather well, I am TOTALLY up front and honest and all I ask in return is READ THE AD. SImple huh?! :rolleyes:

Some people on this site really like to stir Sh*t when there is none to stir! I simply asked WHY can't people read when I have TWO ads stating the facts, thats all, not asking for your "input" thanks!

I have to agree with you. It seems to me the more obtuse and difficult a buyer is and the more hoops he/she asks me to jump through, the less likely they are to buy.

I advertised a horse, included a pic, sent a DVD of him being shown O/F and on the flat with two riders. "Flipper" drives 8 hours to see the horse and announces he doesn't move well enough to flat on the A's in his area. I will never deal with this guy again as the horse was neither priced nor advertised in that way. His movement was clearly shown on the video as well as by my description. I didn't simply hope no one would notice. People just hope you are naive and are pricing them wrong. I have had other people say he is too big/old or something that was made clear up front.

It is frustrating to show people horses who can't read, but I think I would be relieved to hear lots of questions on the phone so I can figure out if I have what they are looking for. The more they say, the more likely you are to figure out if you need an appointment. :)

Trixie
Sep. 5, 2009, 02:22 PM
No offense but if you are in the north east (where they DO have USEF-Recognized C shows) why would you be looking for a 2'3-3' C show horse all the way in North Carolina. Doesn't make sense. I am willing to bet MOST of Shawnee's buyers are from this area. To them, stating C Rated shows means exactly what it means to me and any other person that rides and shows in NC. It means NCHJA C Rated shows. FYI NCHJA also has their A shows, but the A shows ARE recognized by USEF and count for points, etc.

So you're advertising on the internet (which, last I checked, a good portion of the world has access to) for something that apparently only has a local market, and get exasperated and offended when people who are out state ask questions when it doesn't make sense?

Further, the OP has said in the past that she sells horses out of state.

So, if her local area doesn't have USEF rated-C shows, and most others areas DO, and she markets the horse publically where the entire east coast can see it, perhaps a little CLARITY is in order, or at least a willingness to answer questions without rolling her eyes and being nasty to people.

As for me, I've got a horse trailer. If I was looking for a prospect to live on our farm here in Virginia, I wouldn't consider NC too far in the slightest if it was the right animal. However, I sure wouldn't be driving that far to purchase a horse from someone who infers that others are "STUPID" for asking questions, particularly when her norms are not the same as other people's norms.


"Flipper" drives 8 hours to see the horse and announces he doesn't move well enough to flat on the A's in his area.

Did I read this right? You're upset because they took the chance of driving 8 hours to see a horse and it wasn't what they wanted?

Good photos and a video certainly helps and for me will weed out what absolutely won't work - but sometimes there are just things that you can't tell from a video, and you need to see it in person.

Midge
Sep. 5, 2009, 03:05 PM
. Secondly we have "C" rated NCHJA shows here in NC, they are NOT USEF rated and nowhere do I say that, but they ARE under USEF sanctioned if that makes sense and are NOT local shows.

Well, they are local shows, in that they are not USEF rated. The USEF has nothing to do with the NCHJA 'C' rating, other than the prize list will state something to the effect of 'if a situation isn't covered by NCHJA rules, the show will defer to the USEF rulebook.' The USEF has nothing to do with 'sanctions.'

My horse is doing the local circuit as my current vow is 'I will not spend one A horse show dollar jumping 2'6"'. He has baby greened at three different local shows. One was a Sedgefield C rated show, one was at a farm down the road, the third was at the CHP. All three horse shows had good jumps, good judging and good competition. The C rating only mattered if I was going for state points.

Since you're advertising the NCHJA 'C' rating, perhaps you should say so.

Anselcat
Sep. 5, 2009, 03:29 PM
Ok, selling horses sucks. We GET IT.

Shawnee, this apparently along with training is your livelihood. If it's that stressful and awful for you that everytime a buyer asks a "STUPID" question you're going to go onto the internet and complain (with CAPS!) about it, maybe you need to reconsider your approach. Otherwise, it's REALLY unprofessional to keep going onto the internet and yelling about how everyone else is stupid and ignorant, and it makes me, as an outsiderwith a checkbook, not want to ever consider buying a horse from you.

My feelings exactly.

kmsf
Sep. 5, 2009, 05:04 PM
It seems that shawnee is taking a lot of heat for just wanting to vent. She has PM'ed me and not been anything other than nice! I get the feeling that she treats her clients politely and professionally, but just felt frustrated and needed to get it out. Seems that others on this board may have experienced what she has, and may have had helpful input that she was looking for (or just some empathy).

Long Spot
Sep. 5, 2009, 05:15 PM
It seems that shawnee is taking a lot of heat for just wanting to vent. She has PM'ed me and not been anything other than nice! I get the feeling that she treats her clients politely and professionally, but just felt frustrated and needed to get it out. Seems that others on this board may have experienced what she has, and may have had helpful input that she was looking for (or just some empathy).

I disagree. Shawnee is venting in a way that allows her to get around the advertising rules on this board. Venting and advertising. At the same time. Knowing people will look for the ads she is talking about. While S A Mckee might think she's calling her out, she's only helping. Shrug. Am sure I haven't made any friends pointing this out, but I call em like I see em.

S A McKee
Sep. 5, 2009, 05:29 PM
I disagree. Shawnee is venting in a way that allows her to get around the advertising rules on this board. Venting and advertising. At the same time. Knowing people will look for the ads she is talking about. While S A Mckee might think she's calling her out, she's only helping. Shrug. Am sure I haven't made any friends pointing this out, but I call em like I see em.

Ok, then have you reported the OP for 'advertising' or did you report the other thread about a week ago?

I thought not. Put your money where your mouth is.

LOL

dags
Sep. 5, 2009, 07:02 PM
Midge I love your motto :)

As proven again and again, even if you're just selling horses in NC, the internet will take your personality and exploit in any way it can. This can be good, or this can be bad. I am routinely shocked by the mannerisms of some public professionals on this board. If you want to bent/bitch/whine/complain get a blog. Or better yet, a diary.

I am inundated with Buyer emails. Daily, weekly, monthly, continuously. They cross the spectrum of intelligence and yes, sometimes I want to scream. I have considered creating a site section that showcases (anonymously) some of the classics- mainly so others/Buyers can see what it's like to be on the recipient end of one of these doozies, so they can understand, be aware, and if they so desire, change. I would call it something like, "Buyer Courtesy" because most non-professionals out horse shopping really don't even know there's a protocol.

Buyers are short term clients and should be treated as such. They should not be spoken of crudely behind their backs, especially on the Chronicle of the Horse bulletin board - of ALL places. This is not your personal vent machine - and I say this to all venters out there - this is a national forum open to all, which means the very person you're bitching about might be standing next to you, digitally speaking, and I have to assume you have better manners than that. Or at the very least, better business sense.

The moral of this ramble? The digs at Buyers by OP has not gone unnoticed therefore I would be hesitant to send my Buyers that direction for fear I would find them gossiped about on an online BB. That is business sense.

rugbygirl
Sep. 5, 2009, 07:17 PM
I advertised a yearling registered Appaloosa, gelding, bay with a blanket & spots, 4 white socks and a blaze.

The girl that called me wanted to know what kind of blanket it was? A winter or turn out blanket

I like that one...especially since it really is an honest mistake if you don't know much about Appaloosas...:lol:

Coppers mom
Sep. 5, 2009, 09:17 PM
We've recently gotten a couple e-mails about a horse who's listed as "SOLD" on dreamhorse. I double checked, just to make sure, and yup, he's marked as sold. It's kind of weird.

Another one e-mailed asking if a horse had been started under saddle yet, and acted surprised when I said that the (OTTB) was still having a holiday. I mean, the ad says exactly "Poopsie-Pops last raced 8/9/09, and won't be re-started under saddle until October."

ponies123
Sep. 5, 2009, 09:23 PM
So you're advertising on the internet (which, last I checked, a good portion of the world has access to) for something that apparently only has a local market, and get exasperated and offended when people who are out state ask questions when it doesn't make sense?

Further, the OP has said in the past that she sells horses out of state.

So, if her local area doesn't have USEF rated-C shows, and most others areas DO, and she markets the horse publically where the entire east coast can see it, perhaps a little CLARITY is in order, or at least a willingness to answer questions without rolling her eyes and being nasty to people.

As for me, I've got a horse trailer. If I was looking for a prospect to live on our farm here in Virginia, I wouldn't consider NC too far in the slightest if it was the right animal. However, I sure wouldn't be driving that far to purchase a horse from someone who infers that others are "STUPID" for asking questions, particularly when her norms are not the same as other people's norms.

Sorry... is Virginia now in the northeast? Last I checked, still below the Mason-Dixon line. Please feel free to recheck my post and verify.

chism
Sep. 5, 2009, 09:39 PM
Shawnee - I completely understand. I sold a pony a few months ago and it definitely got tiring answering tons of emails asking questions that were clearly answered if they just READ the ad. I just don't think many people read for comprehension anymore.

Vitriolic
Sep. 5, 2009, 09:42 PM
Did I read this right? You're upset because they took the chance of driving 8 hours to see a horse and it wasn't what they wanted?

Good photos and a video certainly helps and for me will weed out what absolutely won't work - but sometimes there are just things that you can't tell from a video, and you need to see it in person.

He specifically said he wanted a low level safe hunter for unrecognized shows in upstate NY. I told him the horse is safe, jumps well, and is cute, but has a clunky enough trot to not pin at schooling shows U/S. Fine he says. After trying him out, and showing up 4 hours late on a 20 below zero day without calling, he announced my $5000 horse isn't fancy enough for White Plains A shows. Yes I was upset. If someone told you the horse can't pin in a flat class at a schooling show, and you said okay, why then change your criteria and circuit to something so far off? I would not let him come see this horse if he told me the truth. It was obviously a waste of time. I was honest. He was not.

Wanderluster
Sep. 5, 2009, 09:57 PM
dags you may have more experience selling horses than any poster here and your advice is spot on. :D

dags
Sep. 5, 2009, 10:09 PM
Thanks Wanderluster :) Sad thing is these are basic business principles, yet they seem so lost on the horse world at times.

Horseforthecourse
Sep. 5, 2009, 10:17 PM
As a buyer, I don't care about the difference between a USEF C show or a NCHJA C show. Both have the same kind of competition and jumps. USEF "C" shows in VA are not superior to NCHJA "C" shows from my experience if that is what some posters are insinuating. The USEF rating is moot. If the horse is doing well at an NCHJA "C" show, then he will do well at a USEF "C" show and vice versa. The NCHJA "C" shows attract a lot of the same horses and riders that show at all of the A shows in VA and NC. There are also classes ranging from $500 Child/Adult Jumper classes, $1k Hunter Derby Classes, to $300 Hunter Classic classes at many of the NCHJA "C" shows. So, I also consider NCHJA "C" shows to be rated shows as well.

Dags, I will offer you the same advice that you gave Shawnee Acres. The ramblings of your posts have not gone unnoticed either. I don't think anyone has the right to tell people what they can and cannot post about on this board except for the mods. You should have noticed a long time ago that people do not have better manners on this board. Respect is often lost just as it was in your post. Just as respect has been lost for the horses in a large part of the hunter/jumper industry.

'Just' selling horses in NC. It is one thing to vent about someone who remains anonymous to others. It is another to insult a professional and act superior to others on an open forum. Those kinds of things do not slip through the cracks for some of us.

shawneeAcres
Sep. 5, 2009, 10:22 PM
Man, jsut cannot believe a lot of people on this board! i SIMPLY STATED that people SHOULD READ the ads, that is ALL. I never said naything at all about what level of showing my horse have or have not done. I never said I don't like to answer questions. I simply said WHY does someone ask the OBVIOUS that are pointed out in ads and websites. And those of you who constantly say that I am "Advertising" you are SO ridiculous! I don't NEED to "Advertise" here other than what is ALLOWED, i.e. I CAN put my website in the sig line. I NEVER specifically pointed out WHAT horse or where you could go to see my ads, therefore I am NOT advertising. And for all of you people talking about my "poor advertising", I guess ALL thoise people who come to my farm and say the horse is EXACTLY as represented are wrong, huh?! I put up a post to vent about the obvious. And the all of a sudden I am some kind of a person who doesn't advertise truthfully! Well look at ALL of the horses in NC being adveritsed as having shown and won at "C" shows. And before you poo-poo our "local" shows, look at the quality of horses that are there and winning and they will stack up to many of your own horses. What really gets me is the SAME people come on here and slam on others when they just want to share a bit of frustration. I have no intention of changing my business thank you. ANYONE in ANY business gets frustrated when people ingore to see the obvious, in black and white right in front of their noses. Don't any of you get frustrated at work etc? Don't you ever want to SHARE your frustrations with others that may also understand? Its like people in my business are required to live in a vaccum! I give up on this

tyedyecommando
Sep. 5, 2009, 10:42 PM
Is it too much to ask for you to repeat the information even if you already posted it in a sale ad. Surely you aren't so busy to speak to a potential buyer for a few minutes.

Honestly for the hope of a sale, I hope you were not as rude on the phone with the potential buyers as you were on this thread. Hopefully these are horses you already own and not something you are selling for a client from a professional aspect.

barka.lounger
Sep. 5, 2009, 11:06 PM
bar.ka here.

same drivel, different day
so predictible

y not spice it up sometime and surprise us with something different

i know... how about a story that isn't all about the stupid people who come to look at your horses or some other thinly veiled disguise at an attempt to market your horses

and the more u type and rant about how professional you are, the less it seems so

Coppers mom
Sep. 5, 2009, 11:34 PM
As a buyer, I don't care about the difference between a USEF C show or a NCHJA C show. Both have the same kind of competition and jumps. USEF "C" shows in VA are not superior to NCHJA "C" shows from my experience if that is what some posters are insinuating. The USEF rating is moot. If the horse is doing well at an NCHJA "C" show, then he will do well at a USEF "C" show and vice versa. The NCHJA "C" shows attract a lot of the same horses and riders that show at all of the A shows in VA and NC. There are also classes ranging from $500 Child/Adult Jumper classes, $1k Hunter Derby Classes, to $300 Hunter Classic classes at many of the NCHJA "C" shows. So, I also consider NCHJA "C" shows to be rated shows as well.

Exactly. The "C" shows around here are no different, competition wise, if it's a USEF or NCDCTA rated show. Most people go to both, because they really are quite comparable in venue, judging, and the types of horses/riders that attend.

dags
Sep. 6, 2009, 12:07 AM
As a buyer, I don't care about the difference between a USEF C show or a NCHJA C show. Both have the same kind of competition and jumps. USEF "C" shows in VA are not superior to NCHJA "C" shows from my experience if that is what some posters are insinuating. The USEF rating is moot. If the horse is doing well at an NCHJA "C" show, then he will do well at a USEF "C" show and vice versa. The NCHJA "C" shows attract a lot of the same horses and riders that show at all of the A shows in VA and NC. There are also classes ranging from $500 Child/Adult Jumper classes, $1k Hunter Derby Classes, to $300 Hunter Classic classes at many of the NCHJA "C" shows. So, I also consider NCHJA "C" shows to be rated shows as well.

Dags, I will offer you the same advice that you gave Shawnee Acres. The ramblings of your posts have not gone unnoticed either. I don't think anyone has the right to tell people what they can and cannot post about on this board except for the mods. You should have noticed a long time ago that people do not have better manners on this board. Respect is often lost just as it was in your post. Just as respect has been lost for the horses in a large part of the hunter/jumper industry.

'Just' selling horses in NC. It is one thing to vent about someone who remains anonymous to others. It is another to insult a professional and act superior to others on an open forum. Those kinds of things do not slip through the cracks for some of us.

Interesting. You've zeroed in on my word "just" and ignored the OP's use of words like "stupid" when referring to people not here to defend themselves.

By voicing my opinion here on this thread I have given Shawnee every opportunity and right to address my opinion. That is an element of respect that was not given to the people she is posting about.

Ironically you have stated no one has the right to tell others what they can post and what they cannot, yet in the same breath you have done the same to me.

You may be copasetic with the lack of respect that sometimes permeates this board but I am not. Going back and forth with someone present and capable of offering the alternative point of view is what conversation is, and sometimes you actually learn from it - if you are willing. I assume by posting this thread shawnee was looking for input, but it seems she wants only comiseration . . . and we've seen a thousand threads go this same route. The only way to ensure no one rains on your pity party is to post it in a blog, write it in your diary, or share it with your friends.

My point stands: To copy a prospective Buyer's email to a public bulletin board then proceed to call them stupid is bad business. The sad thing is I agree with her point, just not the way it was presented.

Flash44
Sep. 6, 2009, 07:41 AM
When buying, sometimes it is hard to keep the facts straight when you are looking at multiple horses. And if you are being flexible with your criteria, you may be looking at a wide range of horses. And from a selling pov, if you have a busy listing, you may have a hard time keeping the details of they buyers straight, especially if you have a bunch of 14-16 yr old girls and their parents and their trainers involved.

magnolia73
Sep. 6, 2009, 08:28 AM
No offense but if you are in the north east (where they DO have USEF-Recognized C shows) why would you be looking for a 2'3-3' C show horse all the way in North Carolina. Doesn't make sense. I am willing to bet MOST of Shawnee's buyers are from this area. To them, stating C Rated shows means exactly what it means to me and any other person that rides and shows in NC. It means NCHJA C Rated shows. FYI NCHJA also has their A shows, but the A shows ARE recognized by USEF and count for points, etc.

I'm from NC- "C rated" to me means one step below A rated... the NCHJA C rated shows - to me mean a different thing- one step above schooling shows. I attended a NCHJA rated show in Mocksville- the classes topped out a 3', and the 3' did not fill. I think they do have an A circuit which mirrors more closely the competition at A shows.

From how much the OP complains about stupid buyers, perhaps she needs to re-consider how she markets her horses. Or just reconsider career choice. People will ask questions- often times you ask questions like that- reiteration- to catch up people trying to deceive or be dishonest. Not insinuating the OP is dishonest, but explaining why people often ask about what is on paper (or online). Often it opens up a new line of conversation "so your pony jumps 3'' then you offer...yes, once in a gymnastic with a pro. ;)

Maybe your buyers are smarter than you think.

Horseforthecourse
Sep. 6, 2009, 09:55 AM
I'm from NC- "C rated" to me means one step below A rated... the NCHJA C rated shows - to me mean a different thing- one step above schooling shows. I attended a NCHJA rated show in Mocksville- the classes topped out a 3', and the 3' did not fill. I think they do have an A circuit which mirrors more closely the competition at A shows.



What showgrounds was this at? I can't find it.

All of the NCHJA shows at Sedgefield have 3'6" working hunters and up to Level 6 Jumpers. Certain divisions have to be over 3' according to NCHJA rules. If you showed at TTC, you were not at an NCHJA show.

http://www.sedgefieldshowgrounds.com/

Even the 3'-3'3" classes at the local hunter schooling shows around here fill.

Trixie
Sep. 6, 2009, 10:03 AM
Sorry... is Virginia now in the northeast? Last I checked, still below the Mason-Dixon line. Please feel free to recheck my post and verify.

I think, in that, you’ve EXACTLY proven my point - if someone a mere one state to the north considers a “C” rated show to be a USEF-C-rated show (as dictated by the governing body of our sport) then frankly, the OP needs to either clarify or never advertise nationally.


After trying him out, and showing up 4 hours late on a 20 below zero day without calling, he announced my $5000 horse isn't fancy enough for White Plains A shows. Yes I was upset. If someone told you the horse can't pin in a flat class at a schooling show, and you said okay, why then change your criteria and circuit to something so far off? I would not let him come see this horse if he told me the truth. It was obviously a waste of time. I was honest. He was not.


You left out of your post that he showed up 4 hours late on a 20 below zero day. However, it read as if he was quite interested in the horse (which really, I would imagine anyone willing to drive *EIGHT* hours to see a horse IS) but you were angry because it didn’t suit his criteria. Yes, making you wait is a waste of your time. However, going to see a horse to clarify something a video didn’t tell you is not, necessarily, a waste of time.


The USEF rating is moot.

I quite beg to differ. The USEF is the governing body of our sport and they set the standard. Frankly, I don’t know what goes on at “local” quote “C” shows. I DO know the rulebook for USEF shows, and I have a general idea of what that implies.

The idea that people from outside your state should just KNOW the quality of your local circuit is hilarious. Just because you SAY it’s totally comparable doesn’t make it the same thing. So, if people then question you, it’s silly to get all offended. Just explain politely.



Just as respect has been lost for the horses in a large part of the hunter/jumper industry.

Um, what?



What really gets me is the SAME people come on here and slam on others when they just want to share a bit of frustration. I have no intention of changing my business thank you. ANYONE in ANY business gets frustrated when people ingore to see the obvious, in black and white right in front of their noses. Don't any of you get frustrated at work etc? Don't you ever want to SHARE your frustrations with others that may also understand? Its like people in my business are required to live in a vaccum! I give up on this

You are a PROFESSIONAL, and you are failing to act like one.

I get frustrated at work plenty. I vent to my friends, quietly, probably over a drink. I do not go onto national message boards in my field of employment and post nasty rants about my clients and potential clients. It would be horribly unprofessional of me, and it would absolutely cost me business.

A national public forum in your field of business is NOT the same as a bar.

magnolia73
Sep. 6, 2009, 11:41 AM
It was at TTC back in 02 or 03, I only remember it was NCHJA rated because there were a couple of kids who wanted me to do the 2'9' to fill a division for them. There were tons of SS and pony hunters.... and eq divisions.

I grew up showing in non-USEF shows... its no big deal, yes, they can be competitive and lots of crossover with A shows, but it is unclear to call an NCHJA show C rated. I know that many times, the local circuits have different requirements for divisions- for example, junior hunters for nchja C rated shows are 3'3, childrens are 2'9, and ponies are lower as well. So if I hear "won junior champion at a C show"... I assume the horse jumps around 3'6, not 3'3. Perhaps a better description is competitive in the 3'3 hunters with a junior.

With the market as it is, you probably are selling through the southeast and should offer more clarity.

ponies123
Sep. 6, 2009, 12:02 PM
Okay understandable those from other states might be confused, but in NC a NCHJA C show is a C show and it is the only C show we have available in this state. We do not have USEF recognized C shows. Our C shows, though, do follow USEF rules, etc. and they are run by the same people that put on A shows. They are also extremely competitive with some great horses and most of the divisions are huge. Shawnee is from NC. To her, and I, a C show is an NCHJA C Show. I do not think it is wrong of her to state that her sale horses have been showing/winning/competing/whatever in a C Rated show if they have been doing so at an NCHJA C Show. To us that IS a C Rated show. End of story.

As far as I am aware she never stated she was pissed off because a buyer asked her for clarification on the C show thing?? So not sure where this big argument is coming from. If someone from VA, NY, or anywhere else that didn't understand what she meant asked about it, I'm sure she would redirect them to NCHJA's point list and explain.

But in NC a C Rated show is an NCHJA C show. End of story.

Midge
Sep. 6, 2009, 12:19 PM
Our C shows, though, do follow USEF rules, etc. and they are run by the same people that put on A shows. They are also extremely competitive with some great horses and most of the divisions are huge.

Some are, some are most definitely not.




But in NC a C Rated show is an NCHJA C show. End of story.


So it shouldn't be hard to avoid confusion for people from other states and clarify the NCHJA 'C' rating. Someone from another state is not necessarily going to know NC doesn't have USEF C rated shows. There is no reason we cannot, we just don't.

magnolia73
Sep. 6, 2009, 12:24 PM
Bottom line, people will ask questions. PERIOD. And they will reask you what is written to clarify an advertisement. An advertisement is just that. If someone reasks you what is in the ad, they are likely asking for more clarification and confirmation of what they read.

YOU are selling. Period. Part of that is salesmanship- which means answering questions. Probably anyone who has ever made a purchase has been mislead by some degree by an ad, and out of caution ask obvious questions.

Does your junior hunter jump the 3'6 required at A shows or a different height? Will your small pony measure as a small or is it just a small pony? Is the price still $15,000 or has it gone up or down? We have had many posters here speak of showing up to see a horse and finding a different price than in the ad, a pony that doesn't measure or a "childrens" hunter that tops out at 2'6.

It probably does get annoying, but it is a part of every sales transaction to answer questions clearly. Good salespeople can read into questions and answer them in a way to increase the likelihood of the sale. Getting annoyed or irritated just makes you look dishonest, rude, or disinterested in the sale.

shawneeAcres
Sep. 6, 2009, 01:39 PM
I am sort of tired of the way things get misconstrued on this board, the whole "C" show question has nothing to do with anything in this post, just something that some of you picked out of thin air. In terms of replying to questions I have always been more than happy to respond and did so to the person who asked the questions in the OP, politely, which is how I conduct business. However, my "gripe" was that I had, in the prior email a few moments earlier directed her to the exact page on my website where the pony in question was, which a simple click on that link I provided would have given her the answers she sought. If I am looking at a horse I will FIRST check the ad/webpage and then may ask for clarification, but to ignore twice the facts that are clearly stated in both the ad and the webpage to me is a waste of my time, as well as hers. I probably get between 5 and 20 inquiries per day on horses. The email responses I give are LENGTHY, I tell the person the horses history, how they are from a standpoint of grooming, clipping, loadin, bathing, ground manners in general as well as a more indepth description of the type of rider they need, the shows they have attended, what divisions they did etc. These emails take about 5 minutes or so to send, and many people ask for additional photos which also take time to attach and send/. I do not mind doing this, I rather enjoy it BUT at the same time responding to emails that ask for EASILY OBTAINABLE information takes up a lot of time. I don't sit in front of a computer all days, I teach, ride and do all the barnwork at my farm. So begin mulitplying the number of emails I must send and the time taken to send them, and perhaps you can understand a bit of frustration on my part when someone asks a question that they could answer for themselves with one click. THings like height, asking price and height jumped are pretty basic and included in all of my advertising. THe person I originally posted about did not say "Has his height been measured at a show and is a carded" which is a CLARIFICATION, she asked his height and said her client wanted something 14 hands or bigger, which kind of didn't make sense, as he was clearly advertised as a medium pony at a height of 13.1 1/2. The jumping was the same thing, she did not ask for clarification of the height I stated he had jumped at i.e. "Has he competed over 2'6" or just schooled it" she asked how high he jumped. In response to her questions my followup email read:

"I am sorry he is XXX hands, he is a medium pony. He is priced reasonably at $xxxx and he has shown over XXXX but has schooled higher"

I took out the particulars for those of you "accusing" me of advertising. So my frustration lies in the fact I had already sent out two emails with photos BEFORE she said she wanted some 14 hands or bigger, and I specifically asked (which I always do) "What are you looking for?" if the buyer does not make it clear in the initial email. THis is so that I can immediately determine if the horse/pony they are looking for and what I am offering is a possible match, and if she had said the FIRST time "I am looking for soemthign 14 hands or bigger" then I would have not wasted so much time and effort (For both her and me) giving her a detailed description of the pony. It that SO hard for you folks to understand? I am not a rude person UNTIL I get rude and nasty comments from others, then yes, I will get pretty PO'd and rightfully so. I started this thread in a half joking fashion, but the "gestapo" on this board jumped in and made it something it was clearly not intended to be. I am very sick of "defending" myself to a handful of people who, over and over do this type of thing, sending a thread spiining out of controil with comments and posts that are obviously meant to do just such a thing! Everyone I sell to, or that I sell for (and there have been MANY on this board that I have both sold hroses to, or showed horses to as well as sold horses for) have been more than happy with all aspects of business I have done with them. That is proof of my professionalism, not you folks that have never met or done business with me. I have nothing else to say on the matter, thanks

magnolia73
Sep. 6, 2009, 04:34 PM
See, you can USE those questions to sell the pony.

Yes, he is 12 hands and holds a permanant medium pony card, so he never needs to be measured at a show. (give them another reason to buy and put doubt in other ponies) His price is $5000 but he is going to the NCHJA finals in a month, and if he does well, we will likely raise his price to $7500. (create urgency). He shows NCHJA shows, which typically attract A barns, why last month he was champion in his division against a pony who placed in the top 10 at Pony Finals. (again- use the question to sell). He is 10 years old, and has been in my barn since he was 6 and he has never taken a lame step (again- upsell- give them more).

Take advantage of questions to sell. You can even make a canned message for each horse- just cut and paste. A script if you will.

If he emails looking for a 14 H pony, say "Buster is only 12 hands, but I have some small horses that might suit if you think that might work".

You'd be suprised how many people get info through websites and actually click through. Take my boss- she'll see something on a website and call vs. clicking to find info. You can't rely on people using your website correctly. There are still many people that just call or email. It would be nice if people would just click on and weed out things, but alas, they don't always.

Horseforthecourse
Sep. 6, 2009, 04:38 PM
Interesting. You've zeroed in on my word "just" and ignored the OP's use of words like "stupid" when referring to people not here to defend themselves.

By voicing my opinion here on this thread I have given Shawnee every opportunity and right to address my opinion. That is an element of respect that was not given to the people she is posting about.

Ironically you have stated no one has the right to tell others what they can post and what they cannot, yet in the same breath you have done the same to me.

You may be copasetic with the lack of respect that sometimes permeates this board but I am not. Going back and forth with someone present and capable of offering the alternative point of view is what conversation is, and sometimes you actually learn from it - if you are willing. I assume by posting this thread shawnee was looking for input, but it seems she wants only comiseration . . . and we've seen a thousand threads go this same route. The only way to ensure no one rains on your pity party is to post it in a blog, write it in your diary, or share it with your friends.

My point stands: To copy a prospective Buyer's email to a public bulletin board then proceed to call them stupid is bad business. The sad thing is I agree with her point, just not the way it was presented.

Little did you know that I contacted the OP through a pm.

Your definition of respect and my definition of respect are not synonymous. A mere element of respect is not respect. Again, this is an extensive problem in the h/j industry, and unfortunately, it carries over to the horses.

I am not copasetic to the lack of respect on this board, but I cannot teach people manners or respect if they are not willing to learn. You had to dig to come to that assumption and are continuing to insult my intelligence. Twisting someone's words to suit your on purposes on a message board is both a lack of respect and very bad business.

You do not have the right to tell someone what they can and cannot post about on this message board. You do not have the power to close down threads and moderate the speech of this board. The only exception to that rule is the actual moderators. I did not make the rules of this board, but I did just restate them.

My point stands as well. It is one thing to disagree with someone in a constructive way, but it is entirely different to insult a professional.

Trixie
Sep. 6, 2009, 05:00 PM
Horseforthecourse, last I checked, you’re definitely not a moderator, and nobody asked you to “teach” them manners or respect. I don’t think Dags was being disrespectful, either, nor did she tell anyone what NOT to post - she just said if you DO post something unprofessional, it’s bad business. And it IS. She did give Shawnee every opportunity to address her concerns, since this is a discussion board.

Further, the USEF dictates that ANYONE can be a professional for accepting a few training bucks. That's why the industry has so many shady pros. Simply declaring oneself a professional is absolutely NO bearing on how professional they are, or whether or not they deserve the respect of others. Most people have to actually earn that.


To us that IS a C Rated show. End of story.


But in NC a C Rated show is an NCHJA C show. End of story.

Yes. To you. And maybe to some of the state of North Carolina. But, uh, the US is a little bit bigger than that, and the OP is marketing to a larger crowd by posting things on her website and on dream horse. Also, the sport of show hunters is governed nationally by the USEF - not the NCHJA. So really, no one outside of the people who show at the NCHJA shows will consider that an industry standard or really have ANY clue what that is. To us outsiders, it’s another local show series.

Therefore, if you’re going to advertise a horse, set the ad up so that it reads clearly to a broad spectrum of people.



Secondly we have "C" rated NCHJA shows here in NC, they are NOT USEF rated and nowhere do I say that, but they ARE under USEF sanctioned if that makes sense and are NOT local shows. If a horse shows locally then that is what I STATE if they show "C" rated in NC then it is a NCHJA "C" rated show, period. If you'd like I can point you to places that you can verify their NCHJA show records, sheesh! Look I sell a lot of horses and do rather well, I am TOTALLY up front and honest and all I ask in return is READ THE AD. SImple huh?! :rolleyes:


Frankly, you can see where we got confused, thought the OP was unclear, and thought her answers to questions from POTENTIAL CLIENTS (which is how a business owner should be looking at everyone in their industry) were rude.

I suppose that after the several nasty rants the OP has posted, some folks tried to figure out WHY she’s having so much trouble selling horses. What we got was a couple of unclear ads, and then some major ranting about how she’s “sheesh! :rolleyes:” apparently totally exasperated with anyone questioning her.

Shawnee, uh, the “Gestapo” is not all after you. But you’ve posted two complaining threads in the past few weeks RANTING about people that are your clients, albeit temporary clients, who pay your bills and feed your horses. Frankly, I have no idea how professional you are in person, but really, with the way you’ve acted on this bulletin board, I sure wouldn’t go out of my way to do business with you. But hey, it’s your business and your reputation, so run it any way that you like.

Horseforthecourse
Sep. 6, 2009, 05:14 PM
I quite beg to differ. The USEF is the governing body of our sport and they set the standard. Frankly, I don’t know what goes on at “local” quote “C” shows. I DO know the rulebook for USEF shows, and I have a general idea of what that implies.

The idea that people from outside your state should just KNOW the quality of your local circuit is hilarious. Just because you SAY it’s totally comparable doesn’t make it the same thing. So, if people then question you, it’s silly to get all offended. Just explain politely.



I did explain the topic politely the first time, but since you do not know about the subject due to showing at a limited number of venues and failed to understand the first time, I will gladly explain it again.:)

USEF and NCHJA ratings are both assigned due to the money that is awarded at the shows. Local NCHJA "C" shows follow NCHJA/USEF rules whereas local USEF "C" shows in VA have strictly USEF rules. The jumps, judges, and competition at both groups of shows are similar. Those types of shows often attract the same types of horses and riders that will be showing at the A shows throughout NC and VA. There are other venues in the south like the NCHJA such as the SCHJA. These types of organizations aren't confined to North Carolina.

I haven't shown exclusively in NC so I did not get offended in the least bit. I don't think anyone on this thread implied that anyone from outside the state should know the quality of the competition. Of course, I read the posts carefully. It is fine to find the idea hilarious, but I am sure that comment was not directed towards me. I hope this clears up the ignorance on this topic.

I am not a moderator, but I don't think Dags is either. I never claimed to be a moderator, but I did restate the rules of this board. She clearly stated that noone could vent on the open forum. It's there for everyone to see.

I agree with Shawnee Acres about one thing. Even I have seen that there are a few posters that seem to cause trouble for other posters over and over again on this board.

No one asked me to teach them manners and respect, but some sure do need to learn them.;) That is just my opinion.

Trixie
Sep. 6, 2009, 05:36 PM
USEF and NCHJA ratings are both assigned due to the money that is awarded at the shows. Local NCHJA "C" shows follow NCHJA/USEF rules whereas local USEF "C" shows in VA have strictly USEF rules. The jumps, judges, and competition at both groups of shows are similar. Those types of shows often attract the same types of horses and riders that will be showing at the A shows throughout NC and VA. There are other venues in the south like the NCHJA such as the SCHJA. These types of organizations aren't confined to North Carolina.

So in other words... again... it's a LOCAL SHOW that refers to itself as "C" and has nothing to do with the governing body of the sport.

Coppers mom
Sep. 6, 2009, 06:03 PM
So in other words... again... it's a LOCAL SHOW that refers to itself as "C" and has nothing to do with the governing body of the sport.

They don't simply "refer" to themselves as C shows, they follow guidelines placed by the USEF, they just choose to work with the state association (NC actually has really good associations that do a lot in terms of showing, clinics, etc). It's not a simple local show, the NCHJA "A" shows have been exactly the same as USEF "A" shows I've attended in NC and other states.

dags
Sep. 6, 2009, 06:15 PM
Horseforthecourse I'm not sure what contacting the OP through a PM has to do with this??

The rest of your comments have me pretty speechless, there's sure a lot of venom to them. The OP and I work in the same field, thought she might like to know the recent rants have given me pause as to whether I would send Buyers her direction. My suggestion to all people that want to complain yet simultaneously mute the replies is to consider a blog, diary or your friends - especially when your professional reputation is tied to it. It is actually not clearly stated that people "could not" post something on this board, though it's interesting you think I have so much power. And it's amusing to see you continue to accuse me of things and then turn around and commit the acts yourself, a fine example being the exemplary way you twisted my own words around.

Okay, my professional censor is telling me to stop typing now . . .

arktos19
Sep. 6, 2009, 06:22 PM
I am not a moderator, but I don't think Dags is either. I never claimed to be a moderator, but I did restate the rules of this board.

No one asked me to teach them manners and respect, but some sure do need to learn them. That is just my opinion.

You’re kinda new here, horseforthecourse, and I am sure the mods appreciate your efforts to hold school on the rules of the board plus letting us know who the reprobates are, but you might want to hang around a little bit more and get the lay of the land before you start issuing directives. :)

findeight
Sep. 6, 2009, 06:25 PM
BUT, to be an actual USEF rated show, the show PAYS a fee to USEF and USEF requires all sorts of entry info, ID/recording numbers, memberships or signed affadavid, requires licensed officials, is subject to drug tests and collects fees for same, requires it's rules be followed and offers a way to protest/file a complaint/fill out a show evaluation, and yada, yada, yada.

So these shows are not "just like" a USEF rated. No ID numbers, no record keeping on a national level, no possibility of a drug test and so on.

But when I read "shown at C rated shows" with no other explanation, I'm thinking a recognized USEF show where I can research the horse and owner to verify results.

Not to go either way on this particular thread, just an observation in wording the ad to be more clearly understood by those not in "the know" about various regional shows and their "rating".

sidepasser
Sep. 6, 2009, 06:26 PM
When I have a horse for sale or lease, I make up a "flier" that has all the information related to the horse on it, along with pictures.

I send that to the inquirers and have been very successful with it. Saves me a lot of time too.

Perhaps you could try that?

Midge
Sep. 6, 2009, 07:06 PM
It's not a simple local show, the NCHJA "A" shows have been exactly the same as USEF "A" shows I've attended in NC and other states.


The shows listed as A shows on the NCHJA website ARE USEF A rated shows. The C rated shows have no affiliation with the USEF. Some of those C shows are put on by A horse show managers at fine facilities. Some are not.

S A McKee
Sep. 6, 2009, 07:32 PM
[QUOTE=Horseforthecourse;4356900
USEF and NCHJA ratings are both assigned due to the money that is awarded at the shows. Local NCHJA "C" shows follow NCHJA/USEF rules whereas local USEF "C" shows in VA have strictly USEF rules. The jumps, judges, and competition at both groups of shows are similar. Those types of shows often attract the same types of horses and riders that will be showing at the A shows throughout NC and VA. There are other venues in the south like the NCHJA such as the SCHJA. These types of organizations aren't confined to North Carolina.
[/QUOTE]

Not exactly. There is a lot more to being a USEF rated show than prize money. Certain divisions don't even require any prize money to be USEF C rated. And some USEF ratings depend on the divisions offered at the show. USEF rating are not simple, lots of factors involved.

Any unrated show can follow USEF rules all it wants to but as others have noted there is no tracking, no drug testing, no requirement to have USEF rated judges, no points for zone and national awards, etc.

A show can't be similar to a USEF show. It's either is a USEF rated show or it's not.

Clarity in advertising is a plus.

shawneeAcres
Sep. 6, 2009, 08:49 PM
I still fail to see what the NCHJA/USEF "C" ratings have to do with my original post?! And several people seem to think I have "trouble" selling horses, having sold three in the past month,a nd havign two people coming to see horses this week, apparently you ahve jumped to an incorrect conclusion. Perhaps my intent, moreso is to educate prospective buyers as t a few things. Now, all of you that know "so much" prey tell, how should I respod to the two inquiries (from the sale person for two separate horses) wanting to trade a diamond and ruby necklace for the horse???? (seriously I DID get this jsut a few minutes ago!) Sorry but I am not into jewelry! LOL Ya'll need to lighten up

Midge
Sep. 7, 2009, 06:36 AM
OK, I looked at the ads on your website.

In two cases there are 2 prices quoted for the same horse.
One price on the sales page and another price on the detail page.

I'd guess one is a typo as it $3000 on the sales page and $300 on the detail page.
The other one has a $2000 difference in price.

You say two of the sales horse have shown "C Rated showing"
To me that means C rated USEF shows.
But I can't find either one on USEF's recording/HID search.

So did you mean unrated shows, not USEF shows?

Im sure if I was looking at your sales horses I'd need to have a LOT of information clarified.

The C show discusssion stems from this post.

Anselcat
Sep. 7, 2009, 10:48 AM
LOL Ya'll need to lighten up

LOL. So do you.

IMHO.

tidy rabbit
Sep. 7, 2009, 11:20 AM
I still fail to see what the NCHJA/USEF "C" ratings have to do with my original post?! And several people seem to think I have "trouble" selling horses, having sold three in the past month,a nd havign two people coming to see horses this week, apparently you ahve jumped to an incorrect conclusion. Perhaps my intent, moreso is to educate prospective buyers as t a few things. Now, all of you that know "so much" prey tell, how should I respod to the two inquiries (from the sale person for two separate horses) wanting to trade a diamond and ruby necklace for the horse???? (seriously I DID get this jsut a few minutes ago!) Sorry but I am not into jewelry! LOL Ya'll need to lighten up


If your email replies, advertisements and website, read like your posts here on COTH, it is no wonder you confuse people.

Horseforthecourse
Sep. 7, 2009, 12:12 PM
Horseforthecourse I'm not sure what contacting the OP through a PM has to do with this??

"Interesting. You've zeroed in on my word "just" and ignored the OP's use of words like "stupid" when referring to people not here to defend themselves."

The OP was getting enough from others, and I'm not someone that has herd mentality syndrome.


The rest of your comments have me pretty speechless, there's sure a lot of venom to them.

There isn't any venom. I have never met you or the OP and have nothing to gain or lose. I was just calling it like I saw it.


It is actually not clearly stated that people "could not" post something on this board

You changed your original post, but it's no big deal. I caught it before you changed it and wouldn't have said anything about it otherwise. I don't have a problem with the way it reads now.


, though it's interesting you think I have so much power.

I did not say that. I said the exact opposite. I don't either. Again, it's no big deal.


And it's amusing to see you continue to accuse me of things and then turn around and commit the acts yourself, a fine example being the exemplary way you twisted my own words around.

I read your posts over several times, and it was the tone of your original post. You thought better of it and changed it. That was my perception of it, and I did not try to twist or exploit your words on purpose.
I agree with your actual advice to the OP (even though I would have stated it a little differently) because this board has quite a few characters that aren't going to be understanding just like every other internet message board, but I can understand the OP's frustration and the need to vent about it as well.

I think everyone would understand others on here a little better if they read the posts more carefully so I don't think it's too much to ask to read an ad carefully.

dags
Sep. 7, 2009, 12:24 PM
Sorry horseforthecourse, my posts have not been edited. They are exactly what I said the first time around, even left the typo "bent" for "vent" which has been bugging the heck out of me.

Try again. And I still don't get what the PM to OP has to do with this.

Horseforthecourse
Sep. 7, 2009, 12:56 PM
Sorry horseforthecourse, my posts have not been edited. They are exactly what I said the first time around, even left the typo "bent" for "vent" which has been bugging the heck out of me.

Try again. And I still don't get what the PM to OP has to do with this.

You can edit a post like I did several times above, without edit coming up at the bottom if you do it soon after you post.

'You cannot come on here to vent and this not your personal vent machine-and I say that to all venters out there-"something like that. The posts (as they real now) don't exactly exude tact (professional or otherwise), but I don't really mind them either.

The arguing about this when I know what I saw is tiresome so I'm going to bounce out of here.

Sparky
Sep. 7, 2009, 01:07 PM
Happy bouncing.

dags
Sep. 7, 2009, 01:26 PM
You can edit a post like I did several times above, without edit coming up at the bottom if you do it soon after you post.

'You cannot come on here to vent and this not your personal vent machine-and I say that to all venters out there-"something like that. The posts (as they real now) don't exactly exude tact (professional or otherwise), but I don't really mind them either.

The arguing about this when I know what I saw is tiresome so I'm going to bounce out of here.

Good grief, you think I'm lying? LOL. You are reading the exact same words that I originally posted and have simply changed your mind about them. ;)

leelee
Sep. 7, 2009, 01:28 PM
OK another vent! READ THE AD PLEASE! had someone inquire about a pony I have for sale, ad specifically states the height, age, price of pony as well as what divisions he has shown and height he has jumped. So they email wanting more pictures (whatever, had four on the ad PLUS a video). I send pictures and information about the pony as well as a link to the pony on my website which has THE PRICE, THE AGE and THE HEIGHT HE JUMPS (again!) So I get a third email from them.

this is what it said:

"How big is he? My clients want no smaller than a 14 hand horse/pony. What is your asking price? What height has he jumped? "

DAMMIT MAN! READ THE ADS!!!!!!!! GRRRRRRR



We had some people call about what horses we had for sale. At the time we only had one for sale, and we told them about her- a 3rd old Tb mare. The people decided to come and the first thing out of their mouths when they say her was: "well, there's one huge problem - its a mare. We don't want any mares."

So, maybe, don't come look at a mare next time???