PDA

View Full Version : Honnest opinion needed about a pony ? Any pony experts ?



mademoiselle
Sep. 4, 2009, 05:07 PM
A friend of mine is selling a pony and a trainer made an offer to buy the pony. My friend was ready to sell the pony, but I felt that the offer was way too low. Friend doesn't have any experience in the H/J circuit and doesn't realize what she has.

The pony is a large, 3 YO, very well started, great with kids, limited show mileage, good conformation, nice enough mover to ribbon in the hack and a 10+ jump.
No changes yet, but has offered them in some occasions.
What is the ballpark ?
I'm not trying to sell the pony, he is not mine and and my friend doesn't even know I'm posting this.

dags
Sep. 4, 2009, 05:51 PM
That's a lot going on for a 3 yo pony. You say "Large", but will he stay that way? Or is he a small Large, because that will cut into price too.

At 3 yo I'm not sure you can really confirm he's going to have a 10+ jump (with a kid on and missing distances left and right), that he's going to have easy changes (hands down requirement for the pony ring), nor that he's going to be a good babysitter and not develop nasty pony tricks as he learns he can get away with things. At 3 y.o. he *should* have a couple more years before anyone's really going to be able to prove any of that so already you've eliminated most of the market as by the time he's ready the kid will probably have outgrown him.

The real division Larges are a surprising reach for some of the little guys also. Would be hard to tell if he's going to have the step and scope for that division at this young age.

A good set of papers might help but he's got little to go on right now. I'm not sure I could name a price without some pictures but I would venture $1500, assuming he's just a random pony and not backed by royal pony bloodlines.

mademoiselle
Sep. 4, 2009, 06:08 PM
Yes, he will stay a large and yes, he is very, very well bred ;)

Czar
Sep. 4, 2009, 06:47 PM
For a 3 yr old well bred large that has the movement - I'm going to say around $6500-$8500 possibly more if he has the "it" factor.

Guin
Sep. 4, 2009, 06:51 PM
No more than $4500. A three-year-old won't be ready to babysit a kid around a 2'6" course for another three or four years. A LOT can happen in that time. Pony's going to need professional training for a minimum of two, probably three years. Friend is not going to be able to sell pony to anyone except a trainer looking for a project right now, especially with winter coming along.

Jsalem
Sep. 4, 2009, 06:52 PM
I agree with Czar. Really depends on the overall quality and who's on the other end of the leadline.

poltroon
Sep. 4, 2009, 07:03 PM
He might be worth in the five figures in two or three years, but in the meantime, how much is it going to cost to feed him, train him, and show him? Probably in the five figures.

mademoiselle
Sep. 4, 2009, 08:21 PM
For a 3 yr old well bred large that has the movement - I'm going to say around $6500-$8500 possibly more if he has the "it" factor.


thank you, that's what I had in mind for him. He is A show quality, not the best of the best, but he has a great temperament he has had a good start with good trainers. He went to two shows, first one only did 2 hacks, ribboned twice without any prep. Off the trailer, 15 mn warm-up and in the ring :yes: The second time, he went around a Xrail course, like a old pro.
He has been ridden by w/t lesson kids on a couple of occasions just to see and he packed everybody like an old pro.
He jumps with his knees in his eye balls and he is quiet, quiet, quiet.

So, he is one of those that is worth spending a little bit of time on.
Just wanted to see, if I was optimistic, realistic or pessimistic :D

thanks

Silk
Sep. 4, 2009, 08:32 PM
Wow..what an amazing pony to do all that at such a young age...and to have excellent breeding as well? It almost sounds too good to be true...only 3, has a 10 jump, 10 movement, babysits walkt-trot kids and has already gone to a show and ribboned both on the flat and over fences....add the fact that he has excellent bloodlines and somehow ended up in the hands of your friend who has no h/j or show experience?

mademoiselle
Sep. 4, 2009, 08:47 PM
Wow..what an amazing pony to do all that at such a young age...and to have excellent breeding as well? It almost sounds too good to be true...only 3, has a 10 jump, 10 movement, babysits walkt-trot kids and has already gone to a show and ribboned both on the flat and over fences....add the fact that he has excellent bloodlines and somehow ended up in the hands of your friend who has no h/j or show experience?

Somebody needs to go back and read more carefully ...
I didn't say anywhere that he was a 10 mover, he is a 8 probably.
As I said he is not the best pony out there but he is a good one, and best of all he has a great mind.
I didn't say my friend doesn't have any horse experience or show experience, I said : 'Friend doesn't have any experience in the H/J circuit' ... I know it's hard to imagine, but there are other disciplines like dressage and eventing.
I didn't say he ribboned over fences, I said he did well, which for a 3 YO, means that he jumped everything, and went around quietly.

He has been handled since he was born and so, he is pretty much bombproof.
My friend did a good job at teaching him how to be a good citizen on the ground, he has been around kids his whole life and behaves very well in most situations. All her ponies do.
Don't make me say things I didn't.
And yes, he has good bloodlines, with parents proven in the show ring.

Czar
Sep. 4, 2009, 08:51 PM
Wow..what an amazing pony to do all that at such a young age...and to have excellent breeding as well? It almost sounds too good to be true...only 3, has a 10 jump, 10 movement, babysits walkt-trot kids and has already gone to a show and ribboned both on the flat and over fences....add the fact that he has excellent bloodlines and somehow ended up in the hands of your friend who has no h/j or show experience?

Umm...he did a crossrail class and the OP indicated he was an average mover - would place in the hack but her words "not the best of the best". Also, again as per the OP, he has been ridden by w/t kids a couple of times. And why can't a 3 yr old have a 10 jump?

Ponies start younger than horses and do more at a young age. Lots of ponies showing in their division at the age of 4 - not saying it's right; just saying that's the way it is.

I've done lots of young horses and my fair share of ponies over the years - if the quality/type and temperament is there, you'd be suprised how quickly a horse/pony can advance.

Three years of professional riding on a quiet, easy pony is a little much - besides, these days most horses/ponies get continual training from a pro. It's not like in the "olden" days where you bought a mount and were on your own - now you get into a program where the trainer rides your mount once a week to keep it sharp. Makes a lot more sense actually....initial training doesn't last forever.

Silk
Sep. 4, 2009, 09:15 PM
...and this pony could just as easily decide that crossrails are his limit and that he is never going to give you an auto change. Now, of the many equines I have dealt with, its not the 3 year olds that give you trouble. At 3 they are usually still figuring out they have 4 legs; the real fun comes when they hit 4 and 5...when they learn how to be naughty.

Whatever...go ahead and ask 6500-8500 and maybe you'll get lucky.

katie16
Sep. 4, 2009, 09:26 PM
Not that many of them actually sold, as I understand many went back home with whom they came, but you might want to compare him against the prices at the sale at pony finals this year to give you an idea.

Czar
Sep. 4, 2009, 09:29 PM
its not the 3 year olds that give you trouble. At 3 they are usually still figuring out they have 4 legs; the real fun comes when they hit 4 and 5



This is true :yes:

Wanderluster
Sep. 4, 2009, 09:40 PM
I bought a nice 3 year old that had not been started but I watched him free jump and I liked the pony's type and breeding. Paid I think $2,500 went on to start him and get him to a few shows doing the baby green at 2'6" , he was second in the classes with the horses so I knew he had the stride and the jump. Sold him at 5 for $15,000 but it was the TWO years of training and a few shows. He has been resold now for a profit by that trainer.
The buyer has to believe that with time and some dollars invested this pony will eventually make up as a legitimate large pony. I don't know about the rest of the buyers out there but I am very conservative when offering money on the unknown potential of a 3 year old pony.

Czar
Sep. 4, 2009, 09:56 PM
Sold him at 5 for $15,000 but it was the TWO years of training and a few shows. .

I think there's a big difference between an unstarted prospect and a pony that has been ridden around by kids and has gone to a few little shows.

I'd be really curious to see this pony in person - we've bought decent ponies for around (& under) the $2500 mark as well but they weren't special...just nice.

I get that things change but a 3 yr old is a pretty safe bet for an experienced horseperson unless of course it breaks a leg ;) Now a yearling.....

tBHj
Sep. 4, 2009, 10:07 PM
At max for a 3 year old unproven pony I would pay around $3500. This pony would have to have a good jump and be atleast an okay mover.

Wanderluster
Sep. 4, 2009, 11:31 PM
I think there's a big difference between an unstarted prospect and a pony that has been ridden around by kids and has gone to a few little shows.

I'd be really curious to see this pony in person - we've bought decent ponies for around (& under) the $2500 mark as well but they weren't special...just nice.

I get that things change but a 3 yr old is a pretty safe bet for an experienced horseperson unless of course it breaks a leg ;) Now a yearling.....

I think that we are agreeing :confused: I consider myself a pretty good judge of young stock, the 2 yr old filly I selected for a hunter prospect went on to become one of the country's best small junior hunters.
The turn around for good or great hunter horses is an easier price point because they can be sold for the pro ride as well as the child/adult horses they will become. Ponies are different because they are shown exclusively by kids. I am sure with your experience I am not telling you something you do not already know. My point being, the very nice pony that I had took some time and money to make him appealing to another buyer and the market is considerably different for a proven show winner than a "prospect".
I am trying not to be snarky here but in my life I haven't seen the "knees over the ears" safe enough for the grand kids to ride, VERY well bred 3 year old pony in someones backyard. It could happen but I believe the possibility Chucha Cabra could be real too.

Czar
Sep. 5, 2009, 12:47 PM
I think that we are agreeing :confused:

Lol...I think so too?

Perhaps I misunderstood - I am getting the vibe from this thread that no one thinks a 3 yr old can be well bred AND quiet and that at 3, the most that type of pony would be worth is $4500?

I assumed :o that the friend bred the pony herself which indicates some knowledge of quality breeding - now I realize that very same pony would be more expensive at a fancy A barn but I don't see why the small time breeder should take so much less b/c the pony happens to be in her "backyard". He's still a fancy, going pony that has been off the property at shows - much the same resume that the pony at the A barn would have.

And while ponies can only be shown by kids - a large is considerably different than a small. A good size large can easily last a "kid" until they are 18 and many of those juniors at the top of the pony world are more than capable of bringing along a 3 yr old pony.

Remember that your average client is looking to buy something more for enjoyment than for resale so they will pay a little more than the trainer who looks at everything in dollar signs (not that this is wrong).

LaraNSpeedy
Sep. 5, 2009, 03:13 PM
We ALL know a horse is worth what someone is willing to pay - what market there is - like 45 miles from here horses are priced about 3x what they are here. If you believe that. Also, in parts of my state, no one would look at an English horse as worth much when at other parts..... And in some areas a horse to be gaited to be worth anything. When I was in California, TWH were cheaper than goats.

So it depends on the large pony hunter market in your area and how important it is to your friend how fast she sells the horse and what kind of home she wants. I would say not to sell for less than $2000 but if she wanted to market him more - go to some shows that have some clout - win some ribbons that mean something and could get $5500? Does she want to put in that time and money?

Someone (SILK?) was right about you putting in money to make money and also, at this young age - you do not know if the pony will be a push button - flying changes sort of pony. You said he was an OK mover but a 10 jumper. Is that in a free jump - is that with a rider - is that consistent? And I TOTALLY agree with the age thing. Threes are sweet and still want to please but 4-5 is when they start testing you and seeing what they can get away with. I personally prefer 6-7 as a horse to start putting kids on if not older.

There is only so much a 3 year old CAN or SHOULD have on his resume. Not sure what the trainer offered but depending on the market - an 8 mover, a 3 year old that has demonstrated a 10 jump and has that experience..... what showing - schooling shows - horse clubs - rated shows? If this horse has represented well at rated shows like an A show - then he might be worth more than 10K - but if its been a schooling show - well, he could be $2500-4500 at best.

Green, registered horses that are able to walk, trot, canter and pop over a fence decently here are going for less than $1000 because of the market. One of my riders is buying a 15.2 gorgeous english moving paint that jumps lovely and is 3 for $1200. She has a 17.3 horse she is selling because she is afraid on him. He is 14 years old. He is amazing and very young in his body - he was so lightly used in his life. His legs are CLEAN. He is a GREAT Equitation horse and pretty much totally trained - his changes are slow because hsi rider is meek in asking so I have to get them when I school him with big old half halts. He is just so big. Thankfully he gets his leads over fences easily. But we have him ONLY at $2500 and few people have the money to even look at him. It is abismal (spelled wrong but like the word!). And this horse has gone to rated shows and been taking care of a nervous kid rider.

But from what I understand - the north east area spend a lot on horses - when I lived in California, I retrained exracers and rarely sold anything for less than $5000. SO again, it depends on your market.

superpony123
Sep. 5, 2009, 04:10 PM
in my area (northeast) that would be easily in 8-12K range especially if the pony's got real potential for the regular large division.

findeight
Sep. 6, 2009, 11:27 AM
Fancy 3 y/o Pony doing crossrails with no changes?

Maybe you can get 8500 for it-if it is 14.1 3/4

Drop about 1500-2000 for every inch below.

Right now, in my average priced area (not the east coast but not mid noplace either) can get you a decent enough 14.0 1/2" Large 6 y/o doing 3' courses WITH changes, local show miles at height-12000.

Ask the PF auction folks how they did with very, very similar stuff..surrounded by buyers.

With this market, Green and no changes is problematic.

Vitriolic
Sep. 6, 2009, 11:59 AM
She has a 17.3 horse she is selling because she is afraid on him. He is 14 years old. He is amazing and very young in his body - he was so lightly used in his life. His legs are CLEAN. He is a GREAT Equitation horse and pretty much totally trained - his changes are slow because hsi rider is meek in asking so I have to get them when I school him with big old half halts. He is just so big. Thankfully he gets his leads over fences easily. But we have him ONLY at $2500 and few people have the money to even look at him. It is abismal (spelled wrong but like the word!). And this horse has gone to rated shows and been taking care of a nervous kid rider.


Ask $10,000 for him and I bet you'll get some bites. :D