Pricing weanlings and yearlings

[ponylover2008]

I know that this is a broad question, but just wondering. I have had a few inquiries on my yearling at my farm and my upcoming weanlings. I have no idea how to price them! Not owning the stallion and choosing stallions with great records, etc.. I have quite a bit of money in the babies themselves (stud fees were $2k!) I know that there is no money to be made, but how do you guys price the young ones?

[Molly Malone]

There are a couple of things you can do. Go to warmbloodsforsale and dreamhorse and plug in your parameters (ie under 12 months old warmblood) and see what the prices look like. Generally somewhere between $3500 and $13500. Then you can refine it by the stallion's offspring specifically - presumably the SO also has offspring for sale and you can ask their advice. On the whole, the yearlings are not very much more than the foals - the curve increases dramatically at 3 yrs old and going under saddle.

[secretariat]

Agree -- look at posted prices for similar products and stallions.

But that's the asking prices -- sales are harder to ascertain.

[camohn]

A big part of this is the MARE. You can have Super Stud bred to Super Mare or to the backyard pet next door and that is going to make a big difference in the pricing.

[ponylover2008]

Thanks! I will do this. The mares are nice quality, as well....

[ahf]

I price my horses for sale according to their quality. Period. I ask myself what I would pay and start from there. THis could be 5k, it could be a lot more. It may be less.

Sometimes I've gone the "git 'er done" route and priced them to get them off my feed or training bill. And there are some I've priced perfectly happy in the knowledge I'll get "x" as a riding horse...as in "Don't want to pay 13k as a yearling? OKay with me - because when it starts showing at 4 you won't touch this."

I look at every horse as an individual. Stud fees or investment have nothing to do with price.

[camohn]

On a more "dollar level" the local race farm uses a formula I find to be very useful as a baseline. 2 (1/5 the value of the mare + the stud fee). It incoporates the value of the mare heavily.
If you breed a 1,500 mare to a 2K studfee stallion that is 2 (300 + 2,000) = a 4,600 foal
if you have a 20K mare then 2 (4,000 + 2,000) = a 12K foal. BIG difference, same sire.

Keep in mind here that broodmare value is less than riding horse value. A mare that was worth 70K as a showing jumper is not a 70K mare as broodmare sound....but ya get the idea. On the other end what you paid for the mare is not what she is worth either the other way. I have a TB mare bred up the gazoo I paid 1,500 for off a cattle ranch out west. To them she was worth very little, to me I saw her pedigree an drooled.........so mare value is a bit of a subjective thing.
*added: that is a baseline....but as noted from there you have to look at the foal in front of you....adjust up for exceptional and down for "did not live up to expectations".

[ponylover2008]

I have somebody who is specifically looking for geldings out of the pony stallion that I bred my TB mare to. I am having a hard time locating other yearling babies out of this stallion. I did find a few and inquired. The stallion is Blue Rain. If anybody has any input (I know that it is subjective and depends on quality and the mare, etc etc)- I would appreciate it. The gelding is a yearling so in his lanky stage right now. He should mature top of the line large but we all know that is a gamble. At a year, he stuck at 13.1 hands. He has a puppy dog personality and has been incredible with the farrier, bathing, leading, etc. He has cute movement as well. I am thinking somewhere around $7500 but don't want to sound greedy. I know that the warmbloods go for more usually, but he is a pony. I think he will be an awesome kids' division pony one day, but you never know...it is all a gamble!

[siegi b.]

I'm in complete agreement with ahf on this.... unless you're selling race horses it should always be a question of the actual quality of the youngster regardless of how much money "you have into it".

Having a very good mare and breeding her to a very good stallion only increases your chances of getting a nice foal - it's certainly not a guarantee.

[toomanyponies]

I think selling yearling hunter ponies is particularly difficult, particularly now. Nobody wants to risk having a wrong size one. And the quietest ones on the ground can be spooky over jumps or decide to be bad lead changers and are then worthless -remember they are ridden by children, so they cant be too complicated. For reference I paid 10,000 for a 3 yr old Blue Rain out of a TB mare at the height of the market. The pony is a beautiful type, good mover, fantastic jumper. He, however, had not shown on the line, ribboned at Devon etc, and was a little rough looking. Nor was he broke to ride.

I would look at the pony finals auction prices and bloodlines, and go from there. If the pony hasnt shown on the line, I think $7500 is a LOT. But, if you can get it, congratulations!!

[ponylover2008]

Thanks. If I could not get that now (and I understand what you are saying), then I would rather take the chance of keeping him, letting him mature, getting him going under saddle and hope that he turns into something very nice and sell him for alot more. I guess that is the decision all breeders have to make...but I am just a small-time breeder and I have a fulltime trainer on my farm to break the horses, etc... so it would be better for me to keep him and get him going. Of course, I know there are always risks there too...anything can happen! I am not in a desperate situation and do not have to sell, so maybe I can wait out the economy!

[rideagoldenpony]

From a pony breeder's perspective, I don't think that price is out of line at all. I've sold many weanlings and yearlings in that price range.

[Windswept Stable]

Personally, with the market the way it is, I would settle for less -within reason. Like RideAGoldenpony--I have sold for more --but times are tough and if your baby has not left the farm-- I would say your price is high for what the market is right now and for what your pony has done. I guess it depends on how long you want to keep the pony too. And also, if you are in a financial position to hang on to it--then keep it and wait. If you found someone interested, you may well get it.. doesnt hurt to ask. They can always counter offer and then you can decide.
I have seen many a smaller pony breeders HANG ON for more...and then they end up with a FIELD full of ponies that they can not sell, because they want way too much money for them (not talking about you, but just in general). The longer you keep it , the more you put in. And it could get hurt tomorrow and totally blow the plan. And as far as 6 digits go--even as a show pony, MOST ALWAYS the pony has to be in a BNT situation to get that---the small time breeder generally does not get the big big bucks for their work. It sucks--I agree...but thats just the way it is.
When I am pricing a pony, I cover my costs and then make some--and if the next person sells for 5 times what I charged them--I wish them well.

Best of luck and I hope you get your price.

[toomanyponies]

From a pony breeder's perspective, I don't think that price is out of line at all. I've sold many weanlings and yearlings in that price range.

I agree, if you are selling purebred welsh, or 1/2 welsh that can do the breed shows where the size is less important. I also agree, that, if the pony is beautiful, has good hunter bloodlines, and has won on the line, you can get that for a pure hunter prospect. Maybe (for one who's never left the farm), if it was beautiful and a die for mover, and I knew the sire's parents heights and dams parents heights I would do it. For example, all 4 were around 13.1/13.2, I'd be pretty sure to get a finished medium. If it is a small bred to a horse - I'd be too nervous about size personally. But that's just me.

[ponylover2008]

I did find two other yearlings with same sire for sale at a significantly higher price...so that is good. From their pics, quality looks similar...

[misita]

Thanks. If I could not get that now (and I understand what you are saying), then I would rather take the chance of keeping him, letting him mature, getting him going under saddle and hope that he turns into something very nice and sell him for alot more. I guess that is the decision all breeders have to make...but I am just a small-time breeder and I have a fulltime trainer on my farm to break the horses, etc... so it would be better for me to keep him and get him going. Of course, I know there are always risks there too...anything can happen! I am not in a desperate situation and do not have to sell, so maybe I can wait out the economy!

Another factor may be, are you able to get him going u/s yourself? I just gelded my 3 year old stallion prospect because he didn't pass his stallion inspection. I spent over $8,000. in professional training alone for him and then there were all the other fees too. Like feed, worming, vet bills, transportation, inspection fees, and on, and on, and on.

My point being, do you think you'll be able to recoup your costs of keeping him an additional 3 years and getting him going properly u/s? I would not hang onto a youngster for 3 years, and all the associated costs, thinking I'll make up a lot more when he's u/s. If I had a good offer on him now, to a good home, I'd take it.

In my horses (Panzyrs) case, who used to be a stallion prospect, it didn't matter so much about the money because I knew I'd be keeping him for my riding horse if he didn't pass his stallion test. Also, I've had 2 people try to buy him from me since his gelding, for quite a lot of money, but it still didn't add up to enough to have made up the difference of what I could sell him for as a weanling and what I can sell him for now including all the costs of keeping him 3 1/2 years.

Unless you have something extraordinary, and you can do the training yourself, or...you intend to keep him, I'd put a realistic price on him now and find him a great home.:)

Someone had great advice about going to www.warmbloods-for-sale.com www.dreamhorse.com www.equine.com www.agdirect.com and the other sites to see what like babies are selling for. Also, look to see how long they've been on the market.

As one who can suffer from severe barn blindness myself, I will often ask my fellow breeders to lend a hand in pricing. This can be a great resource.

[Windswept Stable]

I did find two other yearlings with same sire for sale at a significantly higher price...so that is good. From their pics, quality looks similar...

This can be both good and bad as a reference point.

Since they are for sale-- no one has bought them. Meaning, just because they are for sale at that price, does not mean anyone is going to buy them in the near future. But then again--they might. And my hypothetical question would be--who has them for sale? With the stallion you are referring to, some breeders/agents are well enought known in the business to fetch way more than the small time breeder.

[woweezowee]

Any suggestions for marketing a young pony like this (currently using Dreamhorse and BigEq)? I have a 2 year old with a significant win in hand and as a super-small scale breeder am having difficulty reaching people interested in prospects.

[FriesianX]

I price my horses for sale according to their quality. Period. I ask myself what I would pay and start from there. THis could be 5k, it could be a lot more. It may be less.

I look at every horse as an individual. Stud fees or investment have nothing to do with price.

Yeah, gotta agree with this... Sometimes a pricey stud fee and well bred mare results in a $4,000 baby (yes, sometimes breeders sell at a substantial loss:no:), sometimes in a $20,000 baby. Roll the genetic dice and hope for the best. A fancy moving, pretty baby of unknown bloodlines can be worth more than the "bloodlines de jeur" on a foal that has mediocre movement and isn't well put together. Even two full siblings can be divergently different in type and worth!