Buying an egg...

[CDE Driver]

Not as in a dozen, but say, if someone approached you about wanting an egg from your mare. A friend of mine is in this situation. She was asked about it in regards to her mare. I am assuming that what they want to do is an embryo transfer after breeding her to the stallion of their choosing.

How on earth would you go about pricing something like that? I assume that someone here has either done it or has some experience.

I look forward to learning about this!

[madoy]

I am also interested in this...

[DownYonder]

I don't have specific pricing recommendations, but I would think it would depend very much on the mare's qualifications - her quality, her pedigree, her performance and/or production record. Another thing to consider is the veterinary costs and time involved with harvesting an egg. If the mare has a busy competition schedule, it could be tricky trying to arrange the timing.

[Royal Monaco]

A friend of mine did this. I don't know all the details but I know that one part of the contract was if the egg buyer could get 2 mares pregnant with the ET, 1 of the foals would be for the egg seller as payment. In fact, that is what appened. The egg buyer had the first choice and the remaining foal was given to the egg seller.

[Hillside H Ranch]

Are you talking about an egg, as in an oocyte, or an embryo. If you are talking about embryo, then that is fairly common. If you are talking about an oocyte, then that is not so common. An oocyte is simply an un-fertilized ovum and the complications and low-success rate of buying just the "egg" makes it a much less commonly done procedure. If you are talking embryo, then you are talking about breeding the mare and then flushing her for an early pregnancy and transplanting it into the recipient. Big difference, so you would want to clarify that first.

[ne1]

i don't know anyone selling oocytes in the usa. even the practice of et sales is limited here, hence the op's question (which i'm strongly assuming to refer to et).

its basically worth what you can get someone to pay for it, as in any free market transaction. there is little to measure against as opposed to cattle feeder prices or the hay market! it is a very narrow and developing niche despite the fact that the et technology is pretty well established by those who practice it.

typically the buyer covers all costs over and above the use of the donor mare's genetics. as these end up being quite considerable (clinical procedures, use of a recip for typically 17-18 months etc etc) it makes the proposition prohibitively expensive for most folks once they really evaluate it that way.

we have a major project being rolled out next year in conjuntion with the dept of ag along these lines which i look forward to sharing more about as we get into it in the spring.

in holstein in germany there is considerable reluctance to utilise these technologies until they are more performance-proven. it's interesting because the farmers there say that no good horses have been produced that way so far, yet meantime their compatriot paul schockemohle breeds about 1500 mares a year (give or take), and each one donates an embryo first, therefore bearing two foals.

again, to answer the question, embryo buyer pays for use of the mare's genetics and everything else. it really adds up, which often causes a novel idea to become somewhat less novel.

ne1

[stoicfish]

Is the costs that much different than for any one doing ET? Except instead of paying 60k originally for the mare and getting 5 foals, you pay 2k (or something) and rent her for a month? I imagine as with all ET, you are not going to bother with a less valuable mare as it would make more sense to just do a lease or buy and let her carry it.
What would be the cost in comparison of ET to buying a custom foal from them? That might be what determines the price. If the foals tend to sell for x amount then x minus the stud and the expected (average) vet costs. I would imagine it is the "2nd" foal that would make this process really feasible.
Or a flat fee, for no foal, another price for 1 foal.

[Royal Monaco]

It was an embryo in my case.

[Faiths CremelloWB]

There was a thread about this some time ago now. I have had people inquire about buying an egg from two of my mares. But when they say they want to buy an egg what they are really asking is to breed my mare to a stallion of their choice and transfer the embryo to a recipient mare.

So actually they are purchasing an embryo but when they also purchase the semen some seem to think they are purchasing the egg too. It is tough to price something like this as it will depend on what the owner of the mare plans on doing with the mare for their breeding program. For me it is not worth doing this because the mares are used in my program. And for me to give one up for a year, it would be 10K+ out of my pocket so not a realistic price for someone to pay for an embryo.

When someone is not using the mare themselves, I have seen embryo prices start at 500 and go up to 5K+. And the person purchasing the embryo will also have to pay for the stud fee, the recip. mare and the embryo transfer.

[hunt_jumpfl]

I don't know if anyone in the world of sporthorses does anything like this, but in the Reining/Cutting/Cowhorse world Babcock Ranch has started what they call a "custom foal" program that I would think could be easily adapted for selling embryos from outside stallions. It is outlined on their website (http://www.babcockranch.com/designerfoals.asp), but in short you pay the stud fee for one of their stallions, a set fee for the mare of your choice (or the egg), and $4000 for the embryo transfer.

Now in the performance horse world this can get pricey in a hurry, but they do have quite a range. For example, a designer foal at the prices posted on their website that was by Smart Chic Olena ($25,000 stud fee) out of Sky N Mister ($25,000 egg/mare fee) would run you $54,000 to get a recipient mare 45 days in foal. On the other hand, if you were to design a foal by Cowboy Smarts ($1,000 stud fee) out of Reminfeminic ($6,000 egg/mare fee) you would spend $11,000 for a recipient mare 45 days in foal.

What I would love to know is what type of formula do you use to determine the mare fee. I guess its a bit like setting a sales price or sutd fee, but I really wonder if there would be a rule of thumb based on value/earnings/produce record (kind of like the common lease fee being a percentage of a horse's value).

[stoicfish]

I don't know if anyone in the world of sporthorses does anything like this, but in the Reining/Cutting/Cowhorse world Babcock Ranch has started what they call a "custom foal" program that I would think could be easily adapted for selling embryos from outside stallions. It is outlined on their website (http://www.babcockranch.com/designerfoals.asp), but in short you pay the stud fee for one of their stallions, a set fee for the mare of your choice (or the egg), and $4000 for the embryo transfer.

Now in the performance horse world this can get pricey in a hurry, but they do have quite a range. For example, a designer foal at the prices posted on their website that was by Smart Chic Olena ($25,000 stud fee) out of Sky N Mister ($25,000 egg/mare fee) would run you $54,000 to get a recipient mare 45 days in foal. On the other hand, if you were to design a foal by Cowboy Smarts ($1,000 stud fee) out of Reminfeminic ($6,000 egg/mare fee) you would spend $11,000 for a recipient mare 45 days in foal.

What I would love to know is what type of formula do you use to determine the mare fee. I guess its a bit like setting a sales price or sutd fee, but I really wonder if there would be a rule of thumb based on value/earnings/produce record (kind of like the common lease fee being a percentage of a horse's value).
It would have to be comparible to what her foals would normally sell for!