View Full Version : AHS Announces New Foal Life Recording Partnership with USEF
copper bay farm
Sep. 1, 2009, 08:07 PM
AHS Announces New Foal Life Recording Partnership with USEF
September 1, 2009
LEXINGTON, KY - In a major new initiative, The American Hanoverian Society (AHS) is pleased to announce a new foal life recording partnership with the United States Equestrian Federation (USEF). The USEF, which serves as the National Governing Body for Equestrian Sport in the U.S., licenses equestrian competitions of all levels across the United States each year and maintains the points and standings for the annual USEF Horse of the Year (HOTY) Awards in its comprehensive database. Through cooperative efforts this partnership will showcase and promote the AHS and the Hanoverian breed.
In agreement with the USEF, AHS registered foals, beginning with the foal crop of 2009, will automatically become USEF life recorded as part of the regular $185.00 AHS registration fee. The AHS is pleased to offer this added value (normally up to a $200.00 fee) to our membership at no additional cost. This partnership between the AHS and USEF will allow both organizations access to accurate data for both pedigree and performance. The AHS will provide USEF with full breeding data on each foal and, in return, the USEF will provide the AHS with a USEF Life Recording number for each foal that will be noted on AHS registration papers. In addition the owner will also receive a Life Recording certificate from the USEF.
This new program will provide added value and service for the AHS membership and greater recognition of its breed along with accurate performance records. In addition to the value added to each foal by having the USEF number printed on AHS registration certificates, all American-bred foals going forward will automatically be enrolled in the new American Performance Horse (APH) book of the Performance Horse Registry. The APH promotes American-bred horses by recognizing them with their breed logo and the American flag on all Horse of The Year (HOTY) standings. There will also be an APH standing and year-end awards that recognize only American-bred horses. With the use of the AHS logo on each Hanoverian horse that is recorded, anyone will be able to click on the logo and be linked to The American Hanoverian Society website to learn more about the Hanoverian breed and membership in the society.
In order to implement this program with the current foal crop, the AHS will defer issuing 2009 foal registrations for a short time until the society's database is modified to permit the printing of new USEF numbers on the registration papers.
In announcing this important new program, AHS President Doug Leatherdale stated, "AHS has long taken a leadership role in tying performance to pedigree in this country. In 2001 we were the first North American breed registry to introduce the WBFSH's 15-digit Universal Equine Life Number (UELN); we played a major role in the introduction of lifetime declaration for horses competing for USDF All Breeds awards; and now, with this partnership with USEF, the American Hanoverian Society has taken a bold new step which will eventually lead to the further recognition of the many top Hanoverians being bred on this continent. Of course I am delighted that this new added benefit is being provided at no additional cost to our membership."
Added AHS Executive Director Hugh Bellis-Jones, "We look forward to developing this mutually beneficial working relationship with USEF, our neighbor at the Kentucky Horse Park's National Horse Center. In what can only be considered a win-win situation, each organization has a great deal to gain from this partnership."
For further information on the new USEF/AHS foal recording partnership, please contact the AHS central office at (859) 255-4141 or ahsoffice@aol.com.
Dressage_Diva333
Sep. 1, 2009, 08:13 PM
WOW! That's awesome! It's about time some registry came up with that :yes: Go AHS! :D
Hopefully this will more reliably allow breeders to keep track of their horses, and discourage "idenity changes".
Edgewood
Sep. 1, 2009, 09:06 PM
That is really super! Yeah for AHS!
YankeeLawyer
Sep. 1, 2009, 09:08 PM
Yay!!!! I am so psyched on this. Not only does it save us the USEF recording fees, but it also eliminates some of the tedious and duplicative paperwork.
risingstarfarm
Sep. 1, 2009, 09:09 PM
WOW! That's awesome! It's about time some registry came up with that :yes: Go AHS! :D
Hopefully this will more reliably allow breeders to keep track of their horses, and discourage "idenity changes".
Congrats to AHS for getting on board! BWP has been doing this for several years, and I believe that AHHA also offers lifetime USEF registration with foal registration as well :)
HVH
Sep. 1, 2009, 10:15 PM
As a Hanoverian breeder, I am VERY impressed and appreciate the AHS and USEF for developing this partnership. Great timing too, I filled out the USEF lifetime papers for my foals just yesterday. :)
Peg
Sep. 1, 2009, 11:09 PM
What wonderful news! I already have my lifetime for my weanling...Peg
stripes
Sep. 1, 2009, 11:39 PM
This is fantastic news! Especially today - AHS called me to inform me that in order to get my Arabian mare's DNA for my filly's AHS registration, the Arabian Horse Association has to be paid a fee to release the info - yes I'm a paying AHA member too. Its nice to see a registry that's trying to make things better for the members :)
Indy-lou
Sep. 1, 2009, 11:58 PM
I am really impressed and appreciative that the AHS has taken this kind of initiative and supportive action. I am new to AHS, so lucky me, my 2009 filly now has a lifetime USEF registration! Thanks AHS!
Really, it makes sense for a registry to support it's members this way, but it still deserves to be applauded.
PineTreeFarm
Sep. 2, 2009, 12:33 AM
WOW! That's awesome! It's about time some registry came up with that :yes: Go AHS! :D
Hopefully this will more reliably allow breeders to keep track of their horses, and discourage "idenity changes".
How would it discourage name changes?
It's nice they are saving you the $35 but I don't see how this comes close to solving tracking problems.
DownYonder
Sep. 2, 2009, 06:39 AM
Hooray for AHS for undertaking this initiative. I imagine it took a bit of arm-twisting to get USEF to understand the importance of working with a registry in this regard. Maybe now that AHS has paved the way, USEF will be receptive to working with the new North American Sport Horse Federation. :cool:
PineTreeFarm
Sep. 2, 2009, 09:59 AM
Hooray for AHS for undertaking this initiative. I imagine it took a bit of arm-twisting to get USEF to understand the importance of working with a registry in this regard. Maybe now that AHS has paved the way, USEF will be receptive to working with the new North American Sport Horse Federation. :cool:
I'm really curious what you expect to get from USEF?
What arm twisting? They get paid for the USEF registration, they don't care who paid it.
sixpoundfarm
Sep. 2, 2009, 10:06 AM
How would it discourage name changes?
It's nice they are saving you the $35 but I don't see how this comes close to solving tracking problems.
I'm really curious what you expect to get from USEF?
What arm twisting? They get paid for the USEF registration, they don't care who paid it.
Boy, what a great contribution to the discussion. :rolleyes:
Thank you to the registries that are doing what they can to help get US Bred foals into a national database. Hopefully more follow suit.
sixpoundfarm
Sep. 2, 2009, 10:08 AM
As a Hanoverian breeder, I am VERY impressed and appreciate the AHS and USEF for developing this partnership. Great timing too, I filled out the USEF lifetime papers for my foals just yesterday. :)
Did you notice the additional $30 fee for the USHJA now too? :no: What is the purpose of that now?
PineTreeFarm
Sep. 2, 2009, 10:14 AM
Did you notice the additional $30 fee for the USHJA now too? :no: What is the purpose of that now?
The same as USDF and USEA.
Each affiliate charges it's own fees.
Tiki
Sep. 2, 2009, 11:13 AM
The AHS is pleased to offer this added value (normally up to a $200.00 fee) to our membership at no additional cost. AHS is not the only registry to do this, but I wish they all would. However, it is ONLY up to $200 if you don't register the foal. It's only $35 for a foal.
I DO wonder why USEF is charging a mandatory $30 for USHJA when many, if not most, dressage horses never, ever compete at H/J shows. That really sounds like a HUGE ripoff. USEF/USDF I can understand. If you have a dressage horse that looks like it's going to be a hunter or jumper, USEF/USHJA I can understand. Event horses USEF/USEA I can understand. I absolutely, in my wildest dreams, cannot fathom USEF/mandatory USHJA/USDF.
PineTreeFarm
Sep. 2, 2009, 11:18 AM
Boy, what a great contribution to the discussion. :rolleyes:
Thank you to the registries that are doing what they can to help get US Bred foals into a national database. Hopefully more follow suit.
Ok, but you can get the foals into the database yourself. You don't need the registry to do that.
PineTreeFarm
Sep. 2, 2009, 11:28 AM
AHS is not the only registry to do this, but I wish they all would. However, it is ONLY up to $200 if you don't register the foal. It's only $35 for a foal.
I DO wonder why USEF is charging a mandatory $30 for USHJA when many, if not most, dressage horses never, ever compete at H/J shows. That really sounds like a HUGE ripoff. USEF/USDF I can understand. If you have a dressage horse that looks like it's going to be a hunter or jumper, USEF/USHJA I can understand. Event horses USEF/USEA I can understand. I absolutely, in my wildest dreams, cannot fathom USEF/mandatory USHJA/USDF.
You only need to pay the USHJA fee if you are showing H/J.
USEF collects the fees for USHJA unlike the situation with Eventing and Dressage where you record directly with those organizations.
sixpoundfarm
Sep. 2, 2009, 11:44 AM
Ok, but you can get the foals into the database yourself. You don't need the registry to do that.
Thanks, but I am aware of that. It is thoughtful and value added for a registry to INCLUDE this in the fees that breeders are paying to register the foals.
One less fee to pay.
Home Again Farm
Sep. 2, 2009, 12:20 PM
Ok, but you can get the foals into the database yourself. You don't need the registry to do that.
Yes, but with the registry inputting all registered horses, the data is so much more complete than it would be with just those whose owners bothered to record with USEF. That is something many of us have been hoping for for a long time. Bravo to AHS for seeing this through! :yes:
Zaffiro Farm
Sep. 2, 2009, 01:05 PM
Hooray for AHS for undertaking this initiative. I imagine it took a bit of arm-twisting to get USEF to understand the importance of working with a registry in this regard. Maybe now that AHS has paved the way, USEF will be receptive to working with the new North American Sport Horse Federation. :cool:
As stated elsewhere, other registries including the BWP, AHHA and CS were already doing this. The direct registry/USEF recording has been available to all registries for some time. It is a nice feature for the breeder for sure.
Now if USDF, USHJA and USEA would use the USEF # as a universal life recording #, that would be progress.
YankeeLawyer
Sep. 2, 2009, 01:33 PM
Yes, but with the registry inputting all registered horses, the data is so much more complete than it would be with just those whose owners bothered to record with USEF. That is something many of us have been hoping for for a long time. Bravo to AHS for seeing this through! :yes:
In addition, apparently the AHS is printing the horse's USEF number on its registration papers. It seems that would help people keep track of the horses.
PineTreeFarm
Sep. 2, 2009, 01:59 PM
In addition, apparently the AHS is printing the horse's USEF number on its registration papers. It seems that would help people keep track of the horses.
That's nice.
But nothing to prevent a buyer from re-recording under another name.
AHS will be clueless when that happens.
Home Again Farm
Sep. 2, 2009, 02:05 PM
That's nice.
But nothing to prevent a buyer from re-recording under another name.
AHS will be clueless when that happens.
And that is really quite a shame.
PTF, why do I get the feeling that you are against any attempts to create a complete and accurate database that would prevent such changes of identity? I am really curious about where you are coming from on the subject.
PineTreeFarm
Sep. 2, 2009, 03:07 PM
And that is really quite a shame.
PTF, why do I get the feeling that you are against any attempts to create a complete and accurate database that would prevent such changes of identity? I am really curious about where you are coming from on the subject.
I've never said a comprehensive db isn't a good idea. You seem to be confused on that point.
However, several posters on this thread seem to believe that the AHS recording foals with USEF will solve the problem of name changes and performance tracking.
Perhaps you can explain why you think this is such a great leap forward?
The underlying issues need to be solved first and some of the posters don't seem to realize that there are any issues.
As examples:
One group representing WB breeders with USEF instead of a fragmented sets of registries with different agendas would help a lot.
A standard method of ID'ing horses that won't cause technology issues at shows or create unreasonable delays.
STB's use freeze branding
TB's use tats.
Oh yeah, the WB breeders need to understand that breed papers are not required in H/J , Dressage, Eventing and a few other disciplines.
USEF represents many breeds and groups. WB breeders probably reprsent less than 1% of the membership. Yet the breeders as a group seem to feel USEF should make rules to suit them and spend $$ for programs that the majority of the USEF membership can't benefit from.
Any changes have to take into consideration the impact on ASB's, Morgan's, Hackney's etc. Those groups have just as much right to programs that will benefit them and nothing that you propose will be of any use to those groups. Why should anybody else pay to solve your problems.
The list goes on and on.
MagicRoseFarm
Sep. 3, 2009, 12:06 PM
I believe I made reference to a need for associations to do this a few years ago.. most said nothing, but some told me how stupid my idea was.....I am pleased to see this happeneing more and more, as it will encourage a better database,,
Schiffon
Sep. 3, 2009, 07:23 PM
Originally Posted by YankeeLawyer
In addition, apparently the AHS is printing the horse's USEF number on its registration papers. It seems that would help people keep track of the horses.
That's nice.
But nothing to prevent a buyer from re-recording under another name.
AHS will be clueless when that happens.
The big advantage I see is that if someone wants to sell the horse as a registered Hanoverian with papers, the buyer will be able to see the original USEF number and verify performance records and deduce if there has been an identity change. If this was a universal practice with all registries, it might discourage the practice of identity change to such a degree that performance tracking of sires/dams and breeders' programs would actually be possible in this country.
Does the BWP and AHHA print the USEF number on their papers?
YankeeLawyer
Sep. 3, 2009, 08:39 PM
The big advantage I see is that if someone wants to sell the horse as a registered Hanoverian with papers, the buyer will be able to see the original USEF number and verify performance records and deduce if there has been an identity change. If this was a universal practice with all registries, it might discourage the practice of identity change to such a degree that performance tracking of sires/dams and breeders' programs would actually be possible in this country.
Exactly.
PineTreeFarm
Sep. 4, 2009, 09:02 AM
The big advantage I see is that if someone wants to sell the horse as a registered Hanoverian with papers, the buyer will be able to see the original USEF number and verify performance records and deduce if there has been an identity change. If this was a universal practice with all registries, it might discourage the practice of identity change to such a degree that performance tracking of sires/dams and breeders' programs would actually be possible in this country.
You assume the papers will go with the horse. Many times they do not.
Also if the buyer wishes to change the name the odds are that they will re-record the horse with USEF rather than do a recorded name change. This is a result of USEF's fee structure for recording, name changes. owner changes etc.
By the time the horse has been through a few sales barns some of the records may have disappeared just as happened this summer with the case of identity loss discussed on COTH in detail.
So perhaps the first buyer will know who the horse is but once they are recorded under a new name the history will be lost.
http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=222086
The above thread was started by a poster who dislikes their horses registered name and is looking for suggestions to 'name that horse'. Also it seems to have been shown under 2-3 different names wiuth the same owner. No idea if the showing it has done is rated or not. But there is nothing to stop this from happening at at USEF rated show either. You just get a new HID-USHJA ID each time you show. Now that the HID is no longer free for H/J perhaps that practice will not happen as often because of the $30 fee each time you do that.
wildswan
Sep. 6, 2009, 01:58 PM
You assume the papers will go with the horse. Many times they do not.
Also if the buyer wishes to change the name the odds are that they will re-record the horse with USEF rather than do a recorded name change. This is a result of USEF's fee structure for recording, name changes. owner changes etc.
I also want to add my thanks to AHS for implementing this program. I don't think this program is the "solution" to the performance tracking problem, but it is certainly a big step in the right direction. Another step would be for USEF to amend the horse registration fee structure so that it strongly encourages (rather than discourages) owner's to maintain the life recording number; AND for USDF, USHJA and USEA to use the USEF # as a universal life recording #. But each organization has to do its part and I appreciate the efforts of AHS!
And just to clarify, I don't assume the papers will go with the horse. There are both buyers who don't care about pedigree, as well as sellers who don't want the buyer to know the horse's "history".
BUT, IF the buyer believes there is value associated with breed registration, then that buyer will require evidence of that registration and then, as Yankee Lawyer stated, "as a registered Hanoverian with papers, the buyer will be able to see the original USEF number and verify performance records and deduce if there has been an identity change."
As an aside, I believe that in the years to come, horses specifically bred to perform in the Olympic sports will demonstrate that pedigree does matter. That both nature and nurture determine performance. As a result more and more buyers will care about the pedigree of the horses they buy, and the market itself will begin to discourage those who prefer to "reinvent" a horse at the time of sale.
But, back to the issue at hand, by life recording all registered Hanoverian foals and including the USEF Life Number on the Hanoverian Registration Papers, an owner cannot claim that a registered Hanoverian born in the US, in 2009 or thereafter, does not already have a life recording number on file with USEF. AND, should the life recording number be lost or misplaced, it would be possible to obtain the life recording number from AHS (expensive perhaps, but possible nonetheless, and in this case expensive may not be such a bad thing).
With these tracking devices in place, it would be relatively simple for USEF to refuse to issue new HID or life recording numbers, but rather put the responsibility on the owner to determine the original life recording number via registration documents for these horses. NOTE that I did not say that USEF will do this, I simply stated that it would be a relatively simple administrative procedure.
Since I view the fact that AHS is including the USEF # on the registration papers and thereby creating a permanent link as the most significant aspect of this program, I am also very interested in whether or not the other breed organizations BWP, AHHA and CS also do this??
PineTreeFarm
Sep. 6, 2009, 02:58 PM
"
As a result more and more buyers will care about the pedigree of the horses they buy, and the market itself will begin to discourage those who prefer to "reinvent" a horse at the time of sale.
But, back to the issue at hand, by life recording all registered Hanoverian foals and including the USEF Life Number on the Hanoverian Registration Papers, an owner cannot claim that a registered Hanoverian born in the US, in 2009 or thereafter, does not already have a life recording number on file with USEF. AND, should the life recording number be lost or misplaced, it would be possible to obtain the life recording number from AHS (expensive perhaps, but possible nonetheless, and in this case expensive may not be such a bad thing).
With these tracking devices in place, it would be relatively simple for USEF to refuse to issue new HID or life recording numbers, but rather put the responsibility on the owner to determine the original life recording number via registration documents for these horses. NOTE that I did not say that USEF will do this, I simply stated that it would be a relatively simple administrative procedure.
Since I view the fact that AHS is including the USEF # on the registration papers and thereby creating a permanent link as the most significant aspect of this program, I am also very interested in whether or not the other breed organizations BWP, AHHA and CS also do this??
Huh?
Reinventing of a horses' identity has more to do with re-creating a first year green horse or hide a poor performance record. Nothing to do with pedigree. The horse can have a great pedigree but if it needs to be a 1st yeaer horse one more time nobody will care about it's registry,breed or pedigree.
All the owner has to do is say they don't have the papers or don't know the pedigree or registry. Claim it's a EU horse. Claim it's a WB cross and unregistered. Claim it hasn't been recorded before.
For a H/J claiming it's a Hano or whatever doesn't add value, the performance does.
Other registries have been doing this for a few years. Is it helping any?
As I mentioned, the USEF fee structure does encourage not doing a transfer etc so I agree with you on that.
I'm sure you realize this but USEF does indeed issue recording numbers to non WB registered horses.
Any change USEF makes in assigning numbers has to apply to all horses recorded with USEF.
YankeeLawyer
Sep. 6, 2009, 04:46 PM
This is making my head hurt. If someone wants to lie, cheat, or steal, there is only so much you can do to prevent that or to avoid being a victim. I am quite certain that including a USEF number on AHS papers will at least help some people and horses.
Right now I am just thankful to the AHS that I do not have to shell out yet an additional fee for each of my foals and fill out additional paper work for their USEF registration. I am really tired of fees and forms. So if nothing else, thank you AHS from sparing me the expense and hassle this year. : )
grayfox
Sep. 6, 2009, 06:15 PM
I agree if people really want to lie and cheat what can you do but I think it's wonderful that AHS is doing this. I think people are more interested in papers then they used to be and if the papers follow the horse the original number will be listed.
LavenderFarm
Sep. 6, 2009, 06:28 PM
Not really a new concept. Back in the late 1990’s, some of the registries were on board with the PHR (then owned by the Jockey Club) and foals were recorded with the PHR as part of their registration. (The idea being to track performance to pedigree.) I think more than one registry was involved in the process at that time.
I have a 1997 model with a number inscribed in her registration passport. In her case, she contracted Lyme disease as a just started 3-year-old and it changed her life forever and she was never shown.
Hooray for those who try once again, but I do not believe AHS is the only one.
Zaffiro Farm
Sep. 7, 2009, 09:23 AM
I also want to add my thanks to AHS for implementing this program. I don't think this program is the "solution" to the performance tracking problem, but it is certainly a big step in the right direction. Another step would be for USEF to amend the horse registration fee structure so that it strongly encourages (rather than discourages) owner's to maintain the life recording number; AND for USDF, USHJA and USEA to use the USEF # as a universal life recording #. But each organization has to do its part and I appreciate the efforts of AHS!
And just to clarify, I don't assume the papers will go with the horse. There are both buyers who don't care about pedigree, as well as sellers who don't want the buyer to know the horse's "history".
BUT, IF the buyer believes there is value associated with breed registration, then that buyer will require evidence of that registration and then, as Yankee Lawyer stated, "as a registered Hanoverian with papers, the buyer will be able to see the original USEF number and verify performance records and deduce if there has been an identity change."
As an aside, I believe that in the years to come, horses specifically bred to perform in the Olympic sports will demonstrate that pedigree does matter. That both nature and nurture determine performance. As a result more and more buyers will care about the pedigree of the horses they buy, and the market itself will begin to discourage those who prefer to "reinvent" a horse at the time of sale.
But, back to the issue at hand, by life recording all registered Hanoverian foals and including the USEF Life Number on the Hanoverian Registration Papers, an owner cannot claim that a registered Hanoverian born in the US, in 2009 or thereafter, does not already have a life recording number on file with USEF. AND, should the life recording number be lost or misplaced, it would be possible to obtain the life recording number from AHS (expensive perhaps, but possible nonetheless, and in this case expensive may not be such a bad thing).
With these tracking devices in place, it would be relatively simple for USEF to refuse to issue new HID or life recording numbers, but rather put the responsibility on the owner to determine the original life recording number via registration documents for these horses. NOTE that I did not say that USEF will do this, I simply stated that it would be a relatively simple administrative procedure.
Since I view the fact that AHS is including the USEF # on the registration papers and thereby creating a permanent link as the most significant aspect of this program, I am also very interested in whether or not the other breed organizations BWP, AHHA and CS also do this??
The CS does put the USEF # on the papers, and it is also the last 7 digits of the registration #, which in turn is also the UELN.
www.HWfarm.com
Sep. 8, 2009, 01:24 PM
I think it's a great idea and was really happy to get the e-mail with the info, way to goo. Thanks to all whom helped!:D
Fairview Horse Center
Sep. 8, 2009, 03:47 PM
It is a nice perk for Hanoverian breeders, but what we really need is help with pushing the USEF to require SOME type of proof of who the horse is (registration papers/breeding certificate/vet statement and bill of sale), and a serious punishment for anyone that it is proven they re-recorded a horse. Until then, it will be same ole business as usual for anyone that wants to lose a history (showing/injury/price) on a horse.
PineTreeFarm
Sep. 8, 2009, 03:58 PM
It is a nice perk for Hanoverian breeders, but what we really need is help with pushing the USEF to require SOME type of proof of who the horse is (registration papers/breeding certificate/vet statement and bill of sale), and a serious punishment for anyone that it is proven they re-recorded a horse. Until then, it will be same ole business as usual for anyone that wants to lose a history (showing/injury/price) on a horse.
USEF does require a bill of sale on a transfer to a new owner.
But sometimes a horse is sold through an agent and USEF's rules require the seller's signature, not the agent.
So in that case you can be sure the horse gets a new name and new USEF recording. Sorry, Fairview, I see where you are going but the law of unintended consequences makes requiring a bill of sale just another reason to re-record instead of transfer.
We have been through this before but on many OTTB's you aren't going to have papers so the idea of requiring papers on all horses isn't going to fly.
Papers are only required for divisions that are restricted to a breed. ASB's for example. They have ONE registry to issue documents. USEF needs to see those documents to allow the horse to compete in a breed restricted division.
And many TB's bred for sport aren't recorded with the JC.
But H/J, Eventing and Dressage are not breed restricted divisions. No need to produce papers and if that was a requirement there are several fairly recent national champions who wouldn't have been allowed to compete.
So, no, that's not going to happen.
kokoda
Sep. 8, 2009, 04:02 PM
Great news ... and less paperwork for us! :yes: Thanks AHS! :D
Fairview Horse Center
Sep. 8, 2009, 04:02 PM
USEF does require a bill of sale on a transfer to a new owner.
But sometimes a horse is sold through an agent and USEF's rules require the seller's signature, not the agent.
So in that case you can be sure the horse gets a new name and new USEF recording. Sorry, Fairview, I see where you are going but the law of unintended consequences makes requiring a bill of sale just another reason to re-record instead of transfer.
Yes, for a TRANSFER, but not for a new recording. I think a bill of sale (or breeding certificate) AND a vet statement OR a copy of the registration papers should be required for NEW recordings. If that is not available, then the fees should double PLUS add the punishment if it is later proven that an owner knowingly re-recorded a horse that had a previous number.
These things are REQUIRED to get the foal discount, so obviously can be done, and should be on all ages.
PineTreeFarm
Sep. 9, 2009, 03:18 PM
Yes, for a TRANSFER, but not for a new recording. I think a bill of sale (or breeding certificate) AND a vet statement OR a copy of the registration papers should be required for NEW recordings. If that is not available, then the fees should double PLUS add the punishment if it is later proven that an owner knowingly re-recorded a horse that had a previous number.
These things are REQUIRED to get the foal discount, so obviously can be done, and should be on all ages.
One more time.
There is no requirement that a Hunter, Jumper, Eventer or Dressage horse be of any specific breed or registry.
Your method whould penalize those who breed non JC recorded horse, many WB/TB crosses ( you know, the unregistered ones that are winning in the hunters) and all OTTB's without papers.
It isn't the WBHUNTER division, it's just the Hunter division.
Proof of age is required to get the foal discount but proof of age does not equal WB papers or sometimes any papers at all.
hunterperson
Sep. 9, 2009, 03:55 PM
One more time.
There is no requirement that a Hunter, Jumper, Eventer or Dressage horse be of any specific breed or registry.
Your method whould penalize those who breed non JC recorded horse, many WB/TB crosses ( you know, the unregistered ones that are winning in the hunters) and all OTTB's without papers.
It isn't the WBHUNTER division, it's just the Hunter division.
Proof of age is required to get the foal discount but proof of age does not equal WB papers or sometimes any papers at all.
Of course there is no breed requirement but it would be small deterent to throwing away the papers and switching the name of the horse.
Fairview Horse Center
Sep. 9, 2009, 05:52 PM
One more time.
There is no requirement that a Hunter, Jumper, Eventer or Dressage horse be of any specific breed or registry.
Your method whould penalize those who breed non JC recorded horse, many WB/TB crosses ( you know, the unregistered ones that are winning in the hunters) and all OTTB's without papers.
It isn't the WBHUNTER division, it's just the Hunter division.
Proof of age is required to get the foal discount but proof of age does not equal WB papers or sometimes any papers at all.
<SIGH> we all know that - - one more time ... OR, OR, OR bill of sale (or breeding certificate) AND a vet statement ANYONE should have a bill of sale, or a breeding certificate. ALL can get their vet to sign off on the identity as far as they know re: bill of sale, or breeding certificate. Don't want to bother to produce the paperwork, pay a larger fee.
Proof of age is required to get the foal discount but proof of age does not equal WB papers or sometimes any papers at all.
That is what I said. OR
bill of sale (or breeding certificate) AND a vet statement
If no bill of sale, they can sign an affidavit, and have their vet confirm it validity to the best of his knowledge. or pay a higher fee.
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