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View Full Version : Dressage for a horse with a knocked/dropped hip?



Haffy Hop
Sep. 1, 2009, 01:14 AM
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goeslikestink
Sep. 1, 2009, 03:19 AM
no is the word as the horse would be deemed lame unless you have entensive xrays of his pelvic floor you wont known how severe the injury was and to be honest you shouldnt be cantering him on his weak hips as he doesnt track up properly and the power comes from behind
one of my ponies had a hip injury due to a runing bucking fit and colided with another pony
after that the canter movement when out in a field was two legs together
this pony was although be it small a driving pony a pony club pony and of whome won dressage events within the pony club after his accident he was only used as a lead rein lesson pony to help keep fit amd mobile which only was walking

the reason your horse was sold cheap is becuase a- he would fail a vetting and b- theres not a lot you an do with him, you certainly cant jump him and as for dressage as in any flat work or any work then the horse must be balanced and this is what he cannot do

and it would affect his performance so much so that as its noticable and if one were to go to a show then you might find that your entry would be refunded as the horse isnt sound enough to compete and that if you were competing others might deem it as not anice thign to do and report you for being creul not understanding the whos or whys

to be honest the horse shouldnt be ridden and should be a pasture pet

here in uk-- the horse woulnt be allowed to compete and might only be deemed as ahorse that could do light work - which is walking if the vets allowed him some exercise
most other horses i have know or heard of are all pasture pets or companions
in my own pony he was lucky as i have my own ground to keep for ever which i did tillt he day he died at 34 but no way could i sell the pony not that i would anyways

but a hip injury is one of the worse for a horse as he cant get his hinds underneath him and be balanced add the rider and the injury is more noticable as you cant be even when riding
like i said the hrose should be a pasture pet or companion and shouldnt have been sold
to someone that wants to do things with him as wont happen

unfiar on you and definately unfair on the horse

and be aware that this perticular horse in question will also have arthurtis later on in life of if not now hence also whys hes so stiff

you have a couple of chocies open to you -- either pts or rehome as a pasture pet /companion
but there are so many horses out there already and if pts no one would think the worse of you
as i will say this horse might be in pain anyways due to lackof mobilty in his joints hence why hes so green as you say it becuase he cant do xyz and arhturtis is a painful condition
i am saying this to you as you have only had the horse a couple of months altho atttached to him
it kinder for him in the long then hes safe

and if you do then like isad no one will think bad off you, and if you donext horse get a ppe done
cheap horses are nearly always something wrong with them if not a ridding issues then a health issue which cheap can be cheap to buy but in long run cost you a fortune the person who sold him to you knew ful well there nothing you can do with him -- as your perhaps a noivce when buying horses next time take a trianer with you you can find an accredited trianer on any soceity club or assocaition linked to the FEI as they all have listed accreidted trianers

Equi88
Sep. 1, 2009, 08:07 AM
I had a very nice Hanno mare that I ended up basically giving away, because with increased work, she did show some lameness in her hind end, due to her uneven hips.
She was 5, just doing first level work.....:no:

Movin Artfully
Sep. 1, 2009, 08:37 AM
Very sadly, we just put down a 2yo with the same issue.

All of what you are describing is lameness with an obvious identifiable cause.

The fact that someone would sell him to you as a riding horse is tragic. The fact that your vet thinks he will "work out of it" is equally wrong :no:

Tiki
Sep. 1, 2009, 10:05 AM
It depends! I had a horse with a dropped hip who never took a lame step in his life. He was a little uneven, but he got 8's consistently for gaits and one judge told the rider he would have gotten 9's if she hadn't been holding him back. Absolutely every single person who rode him, without exception, loved him to death. He knew all his lateral work and flying changes and jumped up to 3 feet - never tried him above that as he was so good at dressage. I did wind up giving him away as I can't keep geldings because no vet would pass him, even though he wasn't lame.

If he's not in pain and he improves with work, go for it and enjoy him. Judges have a very different point of view than buyers.:lol:;)

CatOnLap
Sep. 1, 2009, 10:31 AM
I'm not really interested in showing him, except for the occasional schooling show. Would I need to get a letter from the vet in order to show him, without being disqualified?

You cannot show a lame horse, no matter what letter your vet writes. Its in the rules. It gets you a big fat red "E" on your test sheet.

If the horse is not in pain and you are doing gentle gradual regular work under the vet's supervision, it is worthwhile to see how sound he can become with limbering and strengthening. It may be a fun project with a loveable horse and you may learn a lot about injury and rehabilitation. It could also be heartbreaking to put all the work into an unsound horse who even your vet says, will only be capable of lower level dressage. There is no collection and not much engagement required of lower level dressage, which is probably a good thing for your horse, who cannot even canter under saddle due to his condition.
Yes, your horse's injury will significantly retard your progress in dressage.

I agree that it is a travesty that someone would sell you this horse as a riding horse. And there would be no shame in rehoming as a companion or euthing.

Haffy Hop
Sep. 1, 2009, 11:23 AM
Sorry if I wasn't a little more clear in my post. This horse is completely pain free and is not in "rehab" in any way. He has been in training for the past month. He goes fine under saddle, walk/trot/canter. When I mentioned that his canter is slightly unbalanced/rushing, I meant in the sense that he is a green, and has been out of work for a while. He is a little uneven when trotting, but it is very hard to notice. This gait abnormality is due to his dropped hip, and is permanent.

I've been told that a dropped hip does not seriously impair use, and can be caused by an injury from hurrying through narrow spaces, falling in the pasture, etc. It creates an uneven appearance, and can affect gait regularity.

I'm only planning on doing low level work with this horse. I'm not a very serious dressage rider, so getting to first level with this guy would be wonderful. He's also my trail horse, and hopefully will be good a driving horse.

He's perfectly happy doing normal work under saddle. I posted because I was wondering how horses like him hold up to more serious dressage work, (basic collection, lateral movements) and what sort of issues I would face from it.

CatOnLap
Sep. 1, 2009, 11:43 AM
Thank you for your clarification. Gait un-evenness is not the same as lameness. The judge may not see it as lameness. Lameness is a detectable condition which is grounds for elimination by the TD or judge who sees it. Unevenness will just affect your scores in every movement and the collectives as well.

Gait un-evenness due to an old injury can sometimes be made even through proper training- this would constitute rehabilitation of an old injury. It will slow your progress in dressage moreso than if you were starting with a green but un-injured horse with regular gaits.

Rushing at canter indicates the horse's desire to stay off its hind end and not curl the back to bring the hinds underneath. It may be a pain, stiffness or other mobility issue. The appearance of a dropped hip can be from a variety of old injuries anywhere in the back, loins, pelvis or hind leg, ranging from mild to very serious and it is a difficult area to evaluate as most vets do not possess the scanning/x-ray machines large enough to get a good picture of the back and pelvis for example. Clinical exam is helpful, but only goes so far. Hopefully the stifles, back and hips respond to your rehabilitation program through dressage and your horse is able to do what you want eventually.

One version of the training scale in dressage:


Forward and relaxation
Gait regularity (rhythm)
Contact and acceptance of the aids
Impulsion
Straightness
Collection

Collection really doesn't even appear in competition until second level and even at that level, most sound horses can manage it if the rider can.

For years after a serious hind end injury, my old gelding was a 3/5 lameness, but was put into a dressage rehab training program prescribed by my vet. He had the appearance of a dropped hip, although he never actually injured his hip- his injuries were lower in the hind limb. That horse was injured while at first level. He eventually showed PSG and schooled the GP test with no sign of lameness or irregularity.

Tiki
Sep. 1, 2009, 11:59 AM
He's perfectly happy doing normal work under saddle. I posted because I was wondering how horses like him hold up to more serious dressage work, (basic collection, lateral movements) and what sort of issues I would face from it.

Again, as you apparently missed it!


He was a little uneven, but he got 8's consistently for gaits and one judge told the rider he would have gotten 9's if she hadn't been holding him back. Absolutely every single person who rode him, without exception, loved him to death. He knew all his lateral work and flying changes and jumped up to 3 feet - never tried him above that as he was so good at dressage.

millerra
Sep. 1, 2009, 12:17 PM
I have a dressage horse who fractured his pelvis as a 3 yr old. He doesn't have a dropped hip, though. One of his hip bones sticks out farther (one judge at a schooling show thought he was too skinny because of that hip bone sticking out).

Anyway, long and low and hillwork was what worked to get him initially working evenly and stronger behind. He is now showing 3rd (recognized), schooling 4th at age 15 after being an event horse for several years. He has only gotten stronger and more even with the dressage work.

So sometimes they do get better, fitter, stronger through the dressage training. If he is not in pain and happy in his work, if I were you I would keep going w/ him. Just be patient w/ him and focus on fitness as well as the training... Cross training can be your friend.

egontoast
Sep. 1, 2009, 12:44 PM
I would say based on what you have described, keep on going with your training and see what happens!

Dropped down hip from going through doorway type thing is quite different from dropped down hip from a fractured pelvis. The former sometimes results in just a blemish with no gait impairment at all.

You say your horse is uneven behind so time will tell if that improves with the conditioning. it's possible the uneveness has nothing to do with the dropped down hip and is related to the stifle. You've got the Ok from the vet to proceed and you have had him assessed by a chiropractor so it's reasonable to keep going and see what conditioning can do.



to be honest the horse shouldnt be ridden and should be a pasture pet


I have some experience with this as well and I disagree with gls. Good Lord. Not all pelvic/hip injuries are the same . Listen to your vet.

goeslikestink
Sep. 1, 2009, 06:41 PM
Sorry if I wasn't a little more clear in my post. This horse is completely pain free and is not in "rehab" in any way.

dont agree




He has been in training for the past month. He goes fine under saddle, walk/trot/canter. When I mentioned that his canter is slightly unbalanced/rushing,

the horse is uneven hes not rushing as you think-- but adjusting the balance which appears to be rushing when its not

I meant in the sense that he is a green, and has been out of work for a while. He is a little uneven when trotting,

no amount of work is going to make him even -- hes lame and obviously lame as you can feel it


if hes uneven at trot then dont canter him its not fair to put that kind of strian on weak
hips ---

but it is very hard to notice. This gait abnormality is due to his dropped hip, and is permanent.

right why ride him then if its permenant - this horse shouldnt be ridden

hes obvouisly in pain as hes rushing as you say which running away from
it -- this horse no doubt has arthurtic tendancies which is painful

no amount of pain can be measured ------- as not in pain the horse is green as he cant do it - so why make him do stuff he cant do





I've been told that a dropped hip does not seriously impair use, and can be caused by an injury from hurrying through narrow spaces, falling in the pasture, etc. It creates an uneven appearance, and can affect gait regularity.


yes it does -- the horse cannot understand cannot get his hinds underneath him so his balance is wrong

I'm only planning on doing low level work with this horse. I'm not a very serious dressage rider, so getting to first level with this guy would be wonderful. He's also my trail horse, and hopefully will be good a driving horse.

this horse will never make a driving horse as weight as for trials horse



He's perfectly happy doing normal work under saddle.
no hes not - and i dont how far this horse has to shout before someone listens to him


I posted because I was wondering how horses like him hold up to more serious dressage work, (basic collection, lateral movements) and what sort of issues I would face from it.

you wont get collection from him hes not balanced nor even
i say agian pts or have him as companion horse you being unfair to him

EiRide
Sep. 1, 2009, 09:12 PM
Mechanical lameness isn't the same thing as painful lameness--sometimes it gets better, sometimes it doesn't. I would keep a weather eye on his own desire to go forward, as any signs of balking and sucking back might be the onset of actual pain.

Also, I think there is a place in this world for the serviceably sound horse, although it might not be in a show ring. Careful support and tactful handling of the arthritic equine can keep horses more fluid, sound, and healthy than standing around.