Sad Day & Need Suggestions for Dog Breed

[Czar]

Sorry, this is going to be long:

I have just recently been forced to face the music that my 3 yr old JRT is just never going to be trustworthy with kids. We've had him since he was 8 weeks old and though he was exposed to kids at the barn and my nephews, he just isn't a kid dog.

I have an 8 month old son and while Cooper is generally tolerant of his presence and lives to lick his face, I am nervous that as my son gets more mobile, the dog will perceive him as more of a nuisance and will start to tolerate him less. He turned up his lip at him this week for no reason other than he was tired and didn't want to be touched I guess. I was right there and my son was just running his hands gently on his hair - not pulling or being loud.

I'd always believed that if you get a dog as a puppy, you can socialize them and acclimatize them to anything and it has been very disheartening to be unable to get Coop to accept children even when they are being kind & gentle. I've tried everything and though I don't totally buy into breed stereotypes, I'm beginning to think that it's just in him.

Other than that (and the occasional possessiveness over a bone) he's a great dog - not yappy or high energy, listens well and best of all, is a SUPER barn dog. He's smart around the horses and avoids cats. We have a wonderful older family friend who's husband just passed away and we are going to see if Coop can manage the transition.

Having grown up with dogs myself, I want my kids to be around and have animals which means I guess we will be looking at getting another dog.

We discussed the pound but we absolutely MUST have a dog that will be trustworthy with kids - my aunt rescued a lovely yellow lab many years ago that is an absolute saint but it makes me nervous to get a dog that I don't know the entire history on and I've never adopted before. My sister got a boxer puppy when her son was 2 and they are the best of friends - she is an excellent kid dog but kind of stupid - and a little too flighty for a barn dog.

Basically, I need a dog that is great with kids and is a good barn dog that won't wander. We are still living in the city at the moment but my horses are at my parents place and we will be moving to a property in the country in January.

Any breed suggestions? Should I wait and see if the JRT will be more accommodating once on a farm and out more than in?

Just to add...please don't flame me for giving up my current pooch - it's been a very hard decision but I can't exactly give back my child ;)

[Lazy Palomino Hunter]

A well bred Golden Retriever might fit the bill.

[gloriginger]

Sorry to hear about your dog, that must be tough. :(

There are lots of breeds that would it into your needs, I would highly suggest researching ( you can check out the AKC website for lots of great info) and working with a breeder that will choose a specific pup that will be good with kids. I do think some breeds are more tolerant than others, but more importantly the personality of the specific dog needs to be factored into your situation.

For example- cattle dogs are great for sticking around, great farm dogs, and can be amazing with kids- but I also have known some that were iffy in personality and I wouldn't trust them with kids. So if you decided on a cattle dog, then I would work with a reputable breeder that would asses the personality and sell you a pup that will be kid safe.

I am partial to herding breeds.

Best of luck.

[Casey09]

Sorry about your dog. It is good that he has just snarled and not actually bitten. Hopefully his new owner will really enjoy him. In my experience, socialization is wonderful and important for all dogs, but they do still have their own personalities and tolerance levels. Some individual dogs just aren't crazy about little kids (just like some dogs aren't crazy about other dogs, or chase cats, etc).
Now, for what you didn't ask and probably don't want to hear. I am sure that others will say that I am nuts, but I would wait a few years to get another dog. Not because of anything that YOU have done, but because toddlers are difficult to supervise all of the time with the dog - and they aren't always gentle. It is also going to be difficult to train and socialize a puppy with an 8 month old around.
If you do get another dog, I would check with vets and groomers and see if there are any families with young children that need to rehome a dog for reasons other than the dog disliking the young kids. I can understand your concerns about the full history, but I would feel safer with an adult dog that could be temperament tested "as is." You never know what a young puppy is going to grow into - even with training and socialization.

[Nanerpus]

Please Please Please do a little research on English Cocker Spaniels. We have had four, and they are bred for TEMPERAMENT. Absolutely, positively trustworthy around children, other pets, etc. by nature. Excellent size (small enough to carry around, bring in the car), love to be active but can stay in all day and not be nutcases about it. Would never recommend a breed more.
My cousin's young kids (1, 3, 5) come up to swim at our pool all the time and fall all over the dogs, they are very sweet, even though they are not used to young children.

Some pics of them:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=32363745&l=5d06470a29&id=13002359

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=32497197&l=3998ead57b&id=13002359



(next to a 23, frail old cat): http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=32420465&l=78a259d9b3&id=13002359

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=32209841&l=df2adfb300&id=13002359

(both of them) http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=32243883&l=bd88d15edf&id=13002359

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=31340609&l=9141c345fd&id=13002359

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=31503323&l=dd1af97cad&id=13002359


OK, I'm sure you get the point. I'd like to point out that these are ENGLISH cockers, not American cockers, and there is a big difference in temperament (we USED to have Americans). "Engies" are the sweetest, most loveable, and very passive dogs. They do not fight with other dogs, they do not bite, or snarl, or growl at people, things, etc. Please go see some in the area if you can, I promise you will love them!

[TKR]

Those are hard decisions, but you are doing the best thing for you and taking care of the JRT as well. Kudos to you!

All JRT's won't be the same with kids and that's true of many other breeds. As far as a rescue or shelter dog, most of those are evaluated quite well before being put up for adoption, so that could be a path you could take.

My GSD is great with kids in spite of the fact that I don't have any and they aren't around much. I grew up around a family that bred them and they were great with the kids. But each dog is an individual as well. I would only recommend the "working/Schutzhund" GSD's because they are bred for trainability and temperment.

Golden Retrieves, Labs, Collies, many of the herding groups are nuturing types, although my current Border Collie is not good with kids. I hope you find the right dog, but I wouldn't rule out a mixed breed from a rescue that's been evaluated. Maybe one that is not a young puppy that can really be assessed would be the safest bet.

Good luck!
PennyG

[KateKat]

sometimes pets don't work out. I think its better to nip the problem in the bud as opposed to letting to escalate. And, you sound like you have a great potential place for your dog.

I have to say it really does depend on the dog, but I am partial to labs or golden retrievers. Or even better, a mix! My boy is an adult that we rescued and I swear you could have kids crawling all over him and he wouldn't bat an eye. I think this is a testament to his upbringing, but also to the tempermant of the breed.

[SMF11]

English shepherd.

Great all around farm dog, doesn't wander. Typically they are gentle with things that belong on the farm (and pretty fierce watch dogs). So my dog has been very gentle with my kids (youngest is 6; we've had dog two years), and he's extremely gentle with our new kitten etc. [The best dog I've ever had with kids (raised all three of my boys through their babyhood) was a terrier-mix stray that turned up starving and clearly abused . . .]

Will say the English Shepherd a working dog and while not nearly as difficult as a border collie, definitely way more dog than most. They are not an AKC breed by the way, but do have a registry and breeders that take breeding for certain traits very seriously. Website is NESR.info

My two cents is to get an adult dog that you can know is good with kids (b/c a family is giving it up, or it's been temperament tested etc). Getting a puppy is a little bit of a crap shoot even though you can control its enironment.

[Rhyadawn]

Many of the herding breeds, labs and retrievers are all recomended, but I really think it comes down to inividual temperment and how you raise them.

When you narrow down your list talk to some breeders, be ready for honest opinions. They want to place their puppies with the right families in forever homes. Even if what they have isn't right for you they might be able to help you find what is.

I'm sorry you had to find out this way... :cry: Goodluck!

[Lazy Palomino Hunter]

This just occurred to me...

maybe see if you can find a really good breeder who has a breed that you're interested in, and see if they have any retired show dogs/dogs that ended up NQR for showing that they are looking to place in a pet home. Since the dog will likely be full grown, you'll know exactly how the temperament is. The added bonus is that it'll come house broken, trained, and socialized. :)

[citydog]

There are individuals from all breeds who are good with kids, but I'd encourage you to look to the sporting breeds (Labs, Goldens, etc.), as herding breeds (which I tend to gravitate to) are going to be more reactive when your baby starts toddling around.

I teach classes on choosing the right dog for your family, and I do encourage people with very small to go for adult dogs rather than pups, as you know with an adult dog what the temperament is. Puppies are an unknown quantity, and as you've found out, socialization only goes so far (although your JRT was a good boy for giving a warning rather than going for a bite). Some rescues do an absolutely brilliant job of evaluating (ours keeps them at least a month before making them available, and our volunteers are well-trained and savvy enough that they can really get a good sense of which dogs are genuinely going to work out with kids), some do a cursory intake evaluation (if that) and don't really know much about how the dog will be. It really depends.

I'd encourage you to look for an adult dog (like a retired show dog) from a good breeder, or a rescue or rehome from a group that really knows their stuff. It also might be worth considering waiting until after toddlerhood to add another dog to your life. It'll be easier to find an appropriate dog.

Good luck, and kudos to you for recognizing that your JRT isn't the right dog for you in this phase of your life and doing right by all concerned and finding him a more appropriate home.

[SLW]

This just occurred to me...

maybe see if you can find a really good breeder who has a breed that you're interested in, and see if they have any retired show dogs/dogs that ended up NQR for showing that they are looking to place in a pet home. Since the dog will likely be full grown, you'll know exactly how the temperament is. The added bonus is that it'll come house broken, trained, and socialized. :)

That is how we aquired our whippet. He was 13 months old and not going to be finished in the breed ring due to his way of going. The only cost was the cost to have him neutered. He was a fabulous hound that we had to put to sleep last week at the age of 15.

[horse-loverz]

I know this sounds odd for a barn dog but I just LOVE my Standard Poode. :) I take him to the barn with me every time I go, he is respectful of the horses, not a big barker, absolutely great with my young child, plays very carefully with her, sticks to me like velcro and if kept clipped close his coat is very easy to maintain. :) I love love love my pooch!!

[shakeytails]

Most Corgis are good with kids. But I have a Corgi that I bred that was returned to me because she couldn't deal with the young couple's human child- they tried for almost 2 years. The husband was fighting back tears when he dropped her off, and the dog was self-mutilating probably due to the stress of not being an "only child" anymore. The dog is fine with older children, but not with the little ones. Reports I've gotten on her full siblings have been very good- so either she was handled incorrectly or she just happened to get a neurotic gene (I'm leaning toward the latter). It's a horrible decision to have to give up a dog; I feel horrible for you.

[Wayside]

Our beloved Collie passed away about a month ago, and he is sorely missed :cry: That dog was great with kids, horses, goats, sheep, cats. Was protective without being agressive, had a good sense of where the outdoor boundaries were. He was absolutely fabulous in about a zillion ways. He was a rough coated collie, so very hairy, but the smooth ones are out there if fluffy dogs aren't your thing. The downside for some people is that they do tend to be barkers. I like a barker, but some people hate that.

We've had Tessa the shelter mutt for a little over a year now, and we're quite smitten with her as well. We were told she's a lab schnauzer cross, and DH (who grew up with a schnauzer) can definitely see the schnauzer in her, but really, it's anyone's guess. She and my son are both 5 years old, and they get along great. She doesn't play with him much, but she's totally laid back, incredibly tolerant, and has been known to wear towels as capes to be his super sidekick. She has a bit of a naughty streak the Jet, the collie, never had. Nothing serious, but she's definitely got this "What's in it for me?" attitude when you ask her to do something, where Jet would just about fall all over himself to do the right thing and play by the rules.

Yes, the mutts or rescues can be a crapshoot, and I found that some rescues wouldn't even speak to me since I had a child under 6 or 8 or whatever a lot of their guidelines were. But if you find a good shelter or rescue to work with, and are honest with them about needing something very child safe, some of them do have suitable animals, or even have dogs that have been fostered in homes with children.

[BuddyRoo]

If you plan on having more kids...I really do think that in some cases, bigger is better...lab, retriever, etc.

I also like the standard poodles though they are less briar friendly!

I think that if you teach your child, you could likely work the JRT thing into the mix, it's just going to take a LOT of work and supervision whereas some of the more people-pleasing dogs like retrievers (goldens/labs) tend to be a lot more tolerant.

But here's the catch: You cannot take their good will for granted. It's not appropriate for kids to yank, snatch, etc.....you may have more tolerance from another dog, but it's best to teach the kids at an early age what is or isn't appropriate.

I know you're doing your best and most of that goes without saying...but for anyone ELSE reading...kids and dogs are both trainable! It is not the dog's responsibility to put up with everything under the sun. But of course, we must keep children safe.

Best wishes.

[bossmom]

I am ridiculously in love with my English Springer Spaniel, her name is Pearl.

I've had two of the sweetest American cocker spaniels in the past, not nervous or nippy, that loved loved loved kids and the barn.

I know they were over-bred in the past (50's-60's) but really are the best most snuggly loveable dogs - with a hearty, sporty attitude similar to a JRT.

But, you must be willing to play lots of fetch and give treats... and take them swimming!

[Go Fish]

Most Corgis are good with kids. But I have a Corgi that I bred that was returned to me because she couldn't deal with the young couple's human child- they tried for almost 2 years. The husband was fighting back tears when he dropped her off, and the dog was self-mutilating probably due to the stress of not being an "only child" anymore. The dog is fine with older children, but not with the little ones. Reports I've gotten on her full siblings have been very good- so either she was handled incorrectly or she just happened to get a neurotic gene (I'm leaning toward the latter). It's a horrible decision to have to give up a dog; I feel horrible for you.

I disagree...I've had Corgis for many, many years. Generally speaking, they are not good with small children. I love my Corgis, but they can be a bit intense and overreact at times. I don't think herding and working breeds are the best bet with small children. Are there exceptions? Of course, but I don't think I'd risk it with a toddler.

There are many breeds out there that are kid friendly. Do a little research and I think you'll come up with a good dog that will fit with your family. Good luck!

[Bluey]

There are individuals from all breeds who are good with kids, but I'd encourage you to look to the sporting breeds (Labs, Goldens, etc.), as herding breeds (which I tend to gravitate to) are going to be more reactive when your baby starts toddling around.

I teach classes on choosing the right dog for your family, and I do encourage people with very small to go for adult dogs rather than pups, as you know with an adult dog what the temperament is. Puppies are an unknown quantity, and as you've found out, socialization only goes so far (although your JRT was a good boy for giving a warning rather than going for a bite). Some rescues do an absolutely brilliant job of evaluating (ours keeps them at least a month before making them available, and our volunteers are well-trained and savvy enough that they can really get a good sense of which dogs are genuinely going to work out with kids), some do a cursory intake evaluation (if that) and don't really know much about how the dog will be. It really depends.

I'd encourage you to look for an adult dog (like a retired show dog) from a good breeder, or a rescue or rehome from a group that really knows their stuff. It also might be worth considering waiting until after toddlerhood to add another dog to your life. It'll be easier to find an appropriate dog.

Good luck, and kudos to you for recognizing that your JRT isn't the right dog for you in this phase of your life and doing right by all concerned and finding him a more appropriate home.

Hard to say this any better.:yes:

First, good that you rehome the dog before there are serious problems, that may or not happen, but why take the chances?

The next few years, your kid will be a handful and may be not the best time to add a puppy.
With the population being so transient right now, so many people moving, our shelter is seeing many good family dogs left behind due to circumstances they can't handle, so dogs as you want, in all breeds, ages and of lovely temperaments are left at our shelter, very sad.

If you don't want to go the rescue way, breeders with older show dogs some times have dogs like you are looking for, or veterinarians have some neat dog someone left behind.

As for a dog that stays around, etc. keep in mind that is more a function of training, because yes, some breeds are known to wander off more, but it is confining and training that keeps them with you.

No advice on a specific breed, any dog, no matter the breed, can be good or not to patient with kids.
Most times, a larger poodle, not the toy ones, does make a good family dog, as would many other breeds.
Several ranch families around here have poodles and they are excellent ranch dogs, very good with their kids and don't roam.
They have a large miniature and several regular sized miniatures and no, no one makes fun of them, those are very good farm dogs in plain clips.
One family just got another poodle puppy for their now seven year old boy, because they just lost their old one.

I would say, don't be in any hurry, pass the word around and take your time and some "just right" dog may come along.
Good luck with your search.:)

[TheBandit]

I know this sounds odd for a barn dog but I just LOVE my Standard Poode. :) I take him to the barn with me every time I go, he is respectful of the horses, not a big barker, absolutely great with my young child, plays very carefully with her, sticks to me like velcro and if kept clipped close his coat is very easy to maintain. :) I love love love my pooch!!

Ditto. I have a 5 month old Standard Poodle puppy. He is awesome.

[bf1]

I have had two boxers on my farm (female) - they have been great dogs around the horses (very smart about them), and are fabulous with kids. You can lay on them, pull their ears etc - and all they do is lick the kid, and wag their tail a million miles a minute, and follow them everywhere.

We have been fortunate to have found boxers that are not super crazy, high energy one's - and there are plenty of those out there. They do need their exercise though, and firm guidance - they are super smart and will take advantage of you! But they will love your kids!

[Wayside]

It occured to me that one of the big lesson barns I used to board/ride at had a Foxhound, and she was fabulous with the kids. And there were a TON of kids there. And ponies, and other dogs, and all sorts of excitement. So I read up a little bit, and from what little info I gathered, apparently being good with kids is very much in character for them.

Just to throw something that hasn't been mentioned into the ring.

[Debbie]

I don't think you can beat a boxer for kids. My two LOVE kids and encourage me to rent them at every possible occasion:). Mine are also great farm dogs and I agree with bf1 that you have to find a good line. Mine have been energetic but very manageable throughout their lives, so much so that my vet has always questioned if they are REALLY boxers. :D

I grew up with boxers who were outstanding farm dogs and very smart and kid friendly, so they aren't flukes, but you would be best served by finding a breeder who raises them in an environment similar to yours.

[Czar]

Thank you to everyone for their suggestions.

I've talked about this with my husband off and on since we found out we were pregnant but I just hoped the JRT would be fine if the child was in our house all the time.

I'm a fairly savvy animal person - had dogs growing up but this is MY first dog. I was under the impression that some dogs won't even snarl but perhaps I am mistaken? I'd like to think it isn't as big of a deal - that he did just warn and not bite but the fact is, I was right there and my son was being very gentle and inquisitive - didn't seem to be any valid reason why the dog would react as he did. I don't want to be an irresponsible pet owner but even more, I don't want to be an irresponsible parent. I am extremely conscientious about how children treat animals and would NEVER let my kids maul a dog but I also don't want to be walking on eggshells every time my baby crawls in the direction of the dog.

We had JRTS growing up - one was super with kids and the other...NQR. Both raised in the same environment - I guess like others have suggested, personality and not training can win out in the end.

I'm partial to bully type breeds - boxers, staffies, bostons, frenchies and bull terriers and have heard good things about each breed (more the boxers & bullies - not sure about the others) but at this point, I don't care if it has two heads, as long as it's fairly tolerant of children.

Love the look of the Foxhound - I don't think I've ever actually seen one in real life but I assume these would be the dogs they use for foxhunting? I read a little and I suppose if you find the right one it would be fine, but it does say the breed is liable to take off after a scent and might not be able to be trusted with non-canine pets (but excellent with kids).

I love the idea of privately finding an older dog that has been with a family of kids - might take some time but it would be well worth it. I know it would be a good idea to wait but my son gets literally hours of enjoyment from just watching the dog - that's another reason this is so hard; nothing gets him laughing like the JRT and for the most part, the dog is great but if anything should happen....

Anyway, thanks again for the suggestions - this has been quite informative.

Edited to add a silly pic of the JRT and his "cousin"

http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2773263860097913210vvftLI

And just....sad...

http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2593350230097913210WGQAZL

[Trixie]

I think it's great that you're finding an appropriate home for the JRT.

I've had goldens and labs over the last couple years and have never found dogs that have been better with children. I was walking my lab down to the river one evening to watch the "parade of boats," it was dark out and a child came out of absolutely nowhere when we were standing there and absolutely threw himself on my dog.

The dog just stood there and didn't move a muscle, and eventually the child extricated itself and the dog stood very quietly while child and other children learned about petting dogs. He's VERY careful around children.

Definitely agree on an older, child-proven dog.

[lcw579]

I know this sounds odd for a barn dog but I just LOVE my Standard Poode. :) I take him to the barn with me every time I go, he is respectful of the horses, not a big barker, absolutely great with my young child, plays very carefully with her, sticks to me like velcro and if kept clipped close his coat is very easy to maintain. :) I love love love my pooch!!


You beat me to it! Love the standard poodles! Make great farm dogs, just keep them clipped all the way down. They are very protective of their human children too and extremely tolerent. As an added bonus they are excellent ground hog killers.

FWIW my father wasn't so sure about getting the first poodle way back when but he quickly changed his mind when he saw that dog beat up a strange dog that came on the property. He realized that this was no foo-foo dog. My husband had a similar epiphany when we were dating and he saw one of our later poodles dispatch a groundhog in 10 seconds flat. These are NOT sissy dogs by any stretch of the imagination!

[aude]

I also would recommend Bernese Mountain Dogs if it isn't too warm where you live. They are awesome with children and people in general, don't stray, very calm, very loyal and affectionate, plus they are also very good and reliable guard dogs, they don't bark unnecessarily, and evaluate situations very well (meaning they only guard when needed). Some very good Bernese Mt breeders in the US.
I also own Boston Terriers, which are a good pick if you like flat faces, mine all ADORE children, all ages, they are great around my 2 month old nephew, kids are always attracted to them. All 3 of mine are super patient with children. They have a pretty high energy level, but know how to behave too.

[JWB]

I live with a dog from the hound group, the sporting group, the working group, the herding group and the terrier group. My husband and I train dogs for flyball, agility, conformation and hunting.... I tend to look at the group first and then the specific breed so here are my 2 cents or 2 dollars as the case may be.

I would stay away from herding breeds with small children. Although the dogs may "love" the kids, they may also chase and nip as they try to herd the kids. I love our border collie and have friends with darling Aussies, cattle dogs and corgies but their natural instinct is to chase and herd... They'll also want to herd the horses which can be dangerous if they're not extremely savy and well trained. I know people who herd horses with BCs but I'm always worried about a kick! They can make fantastic pets once the kids are old enough to not be sheep.

Terriers can have DELIGHFUL personalities towards people but on an individual basis, they can be very shy too, which can cause agression problems if they are not well socialized. We tried to adopt several JRT rescues and found that they were just too difficult if they had not been socialized with a LOT of structure as puppies. Remember that terriers are bred to hunt and kill prey. They naturally have very high drive and may play inappropriately or roughly if given the chance.

Sporting breeds such as your retrievers, setters, spaniels and pointers typically make fantastic family pets. These dogs like to work, like to be around people and are generally good with the whole family. They come in a huge variety of sizes so it's easy to find one that will fit well with any family. One word of caution though - many of these breeds have been overbred and poorly bred (look in the paper to see how many litters of labs, goldens, cockers) you can find. Make sure you purchase from a reputable breeder rather than from an ad in the paper or on the internet or wherever.... The parents should have health tests and honestly, there are so many GOOD dogs that I reccomend people purchasing a sporting dog only buy one from championship parents or performance titled parents, even if you have no show aspirations These dogs have been subject to the most stringent health checks. One that may not be suitable for the show ring will make an excellent and healthy pet.

Hounds generally don't make fantastic farm dogs. They tend to wander and can be difficult to motivate or train...

Working breeds can make fantastic pets with good training and socialization. They can be shy so I recommend a GROUP training class for puppies to get them the socialization that they need (same for terriers). That said, when well socialized, these dogs have many of the same good attributes of the sporting group dogs. Again though you'll want to make sure you are purchasing from an extremely reputable breeder. I love good dobermans and German Shepherds but I've also seen some really sketchy back yard dogs.... they can have bad temperment and health problems if not selectively bred.


Toy dogs - on a farm? Maybe not. Great pets if you want something for the house but probably not on your short list anyhow....

Non-specific / non-sporting are exactly what the name implies.... Too non-specific to make any generalization about them. Look at any of these very carefully. Some make great pets, some not so much.

With ANY breed there are going to be good dogs and bad ones. I think the most important thing you can do is research what you want and get on a waiting list with a very reputable breeder, take your puppy to classes so it can be socialized in different places and with different people and be a consistent trainer and guardian.

My GUT instinct is to tell you to go with something in the sporting group - not to bash dogs from other groups because I LOVE all of my dogs from different groups - but you wouldn't shop for a warmblood to run barrels, a clydesdale to work cows, a quarter horse to do grand prix dressage or a shetland pony to do the open jumpers.... There may be exceptions to the rules but look in the direction that will have the MOST of what you are looking for rather than trying to find the exception to the rule.

http://www.expressdeliveryflyball.com/team.html

[JWB]

[QUOTE=Czar;4345084]
Love the look of the Foxhound - I don't think I've ever actually seen one in real life but I assume these would be the dogs they use for foxhunting? I read a little and I suppose if you find the right one it would be fine, but it does say the breed is liable to take off after a scent and might not be able to be trusted with non-canine pets (but excellent with kids).
QUOTE]


I'd stay away from a fox hound for a pet. I owned a rescue. She was very intelligent but she was a hunter. She also nipped - she never came out and attacked but she'd sneak up behind strangers and grab them by the pants leg. Although she had extensive training she honestly didn't care to work when she wasn't in the mood.

Foxhounds are beautiful and purposely bred animals. They are bred to run with a pack and to hunt and kill. They are more interested in the pack than in their relationship with their human partners.

If you think that's a dog you would be interested in, look more closely at American Pointers. Physically they are very similar but in personality, they are much more people oriented since they have been bred to set and retrieve for a hunter rather than as part of a pack.

No flames please - I know - I'm sure tons of people have had fantastic, obedient fox hounds for pets. They are the exception to the rule.

[IFG]

Our Standard Poodle pup (see my profile pic to see how he plays with Corgis) surprised me this past week. He has met children, but has not had much of a chance to play with them. He moons at the window watching the kids across the street play, but they are not very interested in him.

Last week we spent three solid days with my 6 year old niece, who is tiny for her age, and my 9 year old nephew. At first, he wasn't sure how to deal with them, but within a day or so, he had figured out that these were great playmates. He was incredibly gentle with the kids, walked away when he didn't like what they were doing, and now is mooning because they have left.

Like others, we clip him short all over, and he is fine living on our little farm. I don't let him in with the horse yet, but our last Standard was great with the horse. He just stayed out of the horse's way and hunted for mice.

Good luck, I am sure giving up your dog is difficult, but it sounds like you are making the right choice.

[Nezzy]

If you plan on having more kids...I really do think that in some cases, bigger is better...lab, retriever, etc.

I also like the standard poodles though they are less briar friendly!

I think that if you teach your child, you could likely work the JRT thing into the mix, it's just going to take a LOT of work and supervision whereas some of the more people-pleasing dogs like retrievers (goldens/labs) tend to be a lot more tolerant.

But here's the catch: You cannot take their good will for granted. It's not appropriate for kids to yank, snatch, etc.....you may have more tolerance from another dog, but it's best to teach the kids at an early age what is or isn't appropriate.

I know you're doing your best and most of that goes without saying...but for anyone ELSE reading...kids and dogs are both trainable! It is not the dog's responsibility to put up with everything under the sun. But of course, we must keep children safe.

Best wishes.

Ditto. Great post.

[Czar]

I also would recommend Bernese Mountain Dogs if it isn't too warm where you live. They are awesome with children and people in general, don't stray, very calm, very loyal and affectionate, plus they are also very good and reliable guard dogs, they don't bark unnecessarily, and evaluate situations very well (meaning they only guard when needed). Some very good Bernese Mt breeders in the US.
I also own Boston Terriers, which are a good pick if you like flat faces, mine all ADORE children, all ages, they are great around my 2 month old nephew, kids are always attracted to them. All 3 of mine are super patient with children. They have a pretty high energy level, but know how to behave too.

I love Bostons - I've researched quite a bit about the breed...just don't know how well they'd do in a farm situation b/c of the short coat. They just seem frail - but I've never owned one personally so what do I know? I don't mind a bit of high energy if it can be expended through exercise (we LOVE walks & hacks) but not too keen on the high energy types that just.can't.sit.still.

Bernese Mountain dogs have a little bit of a longer coat than I'd like - anyone know about the Swiss Mountain Dog that seems similar but has the shorter coat? I did know a gal on our circuit that had a Bernese and it wasn't overly friendly - little standoffish but that was only one dog.

JWB - thank you so much for such an informative post. I know general breed types from the research that I've done but no one has ever laid it out so specifically before.

The truth is, one of the things I love best about my JRT is his intelligence (was never stepped on as a puppy, house trained quickly, doesn't go off his rocker when people come in the house) but sometimes I think that is the exact thing that doesn't make him a fantastic family dog. My sister's boxer who is the best dog I've practically ever seen with kids is dumb as a post :) And other great family dogs I've known like labs and retrievers haven't been too swift either.

My search might be easier if I was just looking for a great dog for kids but I also want one that's intelligent enough to be near horses without getting their head kicked in and not an annoyance to have around.

[IFG]

The truth is, one of the things I love best about my JRT is his intelligence (was never stepped on as a puppy, house trained quickly, doesn't go off his rocker when people come in the house) but sometimes I think that is the exact thing that doesn't make him a fantastic family dog. My sister's boxer who is the best dog I've practically ever seen with kids is dumb as a post :) And other great family dogs I've known like labs and retrievers haven't been too swift either.

My search might be easier if I was just looking for a great dog for kids but I also want one that's intelligent enough to be near horses without getting their head kicked in and not an annoyance to have around.

Well then, you are back to the Standard Poodle!

[BuddyRoo]

Great post JWB!

[gtiorobertsf]

I know this sounds odd for a barn dog but I just LOVE my Standard Poode. :) I take him to the barn with me every time I go, he is respectful of the horses, not a big barker, absolutely great with my young child, plays very carefully with her, sticks to me like velcro and if kept clipped close his coat is very easy to maintain. :) I love love love my pooch!!

I second the poodle.
We have children around us all the time and they are always respectful.
They can go all day when out on the trails.
Very gentle, but protective when need be. i have a guy try and rob me once dumb guy I guess he thought standard poodles weren't real dogs but he soon learned for himself.
and the dont shed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[alacrity]

Well then, you are back to the Standard Poodle!

The standard poodle keeps coming up in my search as well. I posted the thread about large breed dogs (i.e., Great Dane size), and strangely enough the conversation turned to poodles! As much as I would love a Dane or a GSD, my husband and I realized that we also need a dog that's fairly portable and neighborhood (vs. farm) friendly.

Right now we have a lab/hound mix who is very sweet and loves kids, cats, horses, other dogs, burglers, :lol: you name it! We were first time dog owners so we sought out an "easy" dog from a reputable rescue and its been a great experience. If I were in your situation, I would definitely hone in on a couple of breeds that you like and search for adult dogs that would easily integrate to your household.

[yellowbritches]

There are LOTS of good dogs out there, pure bred and otherwise that are great with kids. It is almost too hard to pick. Some do better with kids just on their energy level (a mellower breed will be a little less unnerving to a small child), but I really can't think of one particular breed I'd would say without a doubt stay away from.

I would also just gently remind you not to rule out a "rescue" all together. If you work through a breed rescue or a private rescue group, most do A LOT of screening and testing on their dogs and can tell which of their dogs will be good with kids and which ones won't. Some good shelters do the same thing (usually SPCAs and rescue leagues devote more time to screening their animals than some county shelters). If you find the right group to work with, they will help you get the best match.

One more gentle reminder (and why a rescue may sometimes be better). You have a very small child and are considering a puppy. Both are uber-high maintenance and puppies need manners taught so they CAN be good around little humans. Take the time to consider whether you have the time, energy, and gumption to not only care for your kiddo, but care for and raise your puppy to be a good canine citizen with his or her two legged pal. An older dog who has been in a home before may be a better match if you're unsure you can properly do justice to raising a puppy with the kiddo in tow. A lot of dogs that end up with rescues, especially right now, are the victims of foreclosures...I've seen a lot of dogs looking for homes recently that are well behaved, well trained, and well socialized, but their families have lost their homes :(.

[Blacklabs]

I second the lab, great dogs with kids.

I do know some great labs that are looking for homes from breeders that have retired them. Pm if you would like more info.

Good luck

[Chester's Mom]

Ditto to yellowbritches but I'm going to put in a plug for a local-to-you "all breed" rescue.

Small all breed rescues typically foster the dogs in homes and can answer those questions you need to know to fit a dog to your lifestyle & family. Wish you were closer, we could fix you right up!

[ponymom64]

I have kids, a barn and two labs and a Westie. I have to say I feel the same way as the OP regarding shelter dogs vs. breeder dogs - while in theory, I love the idea of a shelter dog - I have TONS of kids in and out of my house and would never feel comfortable with a dog that I didn't know its history and parentage.

IMO, I would highly recommend labs as companions for children - mine may not be so smart, but they are kind, loving, tolerant and completely devoted to my kids. They are happy to follow them around the farm, happy to lie for hours watching a movie, happy to hang out in the barn - just happy to BE. I adore my Westie - he is smart as a whip, likeable and engaging, but he is not a child's pet.

I got both of my labs from a breeder who ran the husbandry program for one of the Guiding Eyes for the Blind programs near us, so I felt that he had a good sense of what characteristics were important in breeding - his dogs were also Champions both in conformation and performance, so clearly he takes breeding seriously.

[animaldoc]

I have known even Labs that have bitten children...

We have a JRT and two kids. When the first child started crawling, she got extremely nervous and we were worried about her snapping (she had never offered to bite anyone before). We consulted a veterinary behaviorist who gave us some strategies for working with the dog and told us that the dog would likely get better when the child started walking. We gave the dog a safe place to go - told her to go to bed (could be a crate as well) - and gave her a treat for going there, AND we taught the crawler that "you don't bother Belle in her bed" and removed the child to another area anytime it went towards the dog and bed.

Once our first (now 3) started walking, the JRT was much more relaxed (but the rule about not bothering her in her bed still stands) and they are great buddies.

Now, with the second (11 months) we are doing the same thing.

The JRT in the OP was doing exactly what you would expect a dog to do in that situation - tired and didn't want to be petted = lifted lip. The child doesn't get the signal, but OP did and took the child away. Doesn't always mean that the dog isn't good with kids or that it won't be good with kids when they're a little older, but we all know that JRT's aren't a particularly tolerant breed. This dog was communicating "leave me alone" the only way it could. (And perfectly appropriately, IMO.)

If the child hadn't been removed from the situation, the next step from the dog would have been a snap that didn't connect ("I SAID leave me ALONE"), and if that wasn't respected, a bite that connected ("GET AWAY!).

Children and pets should never be unsupervised, especially when the children are very small. I don't know that a new, larger dog is the answer.....

[JackandMo]

Honestly, I think dogs are a crap shoot. Experiences with different breeds are as varied as the breeds themselves.

I hate cocker spaniels. The ones I've been exposed to were neurotic and crazy to the bone. Never met a Doberman I didn't like. Everyone's experiences are different.

I have a JRT mix that is a gem with children. I've had her since she was 8 weeks and she's 3 now. She's neurotic, crazy, hyper (same as the cockers I've been around, but sweeter!)

I also have an Australian Cattle Dog that is without a doubt, hands down, the BEST. DOG. EVER. He's an amazing barn dog, too. Got him at 8 weeks, he's 7 now. As a pup, I used to kick him, pull his ears, poke and prod him, lay all over him, etc. like a child would. I have 5 children, so it was important that he be a good dog. He's never once acted out at the barn, EXCEPT with a pony which he tried to herd. He doesn't mess with the horses! He sleeps with one of the boys every night (not supposed to be upstairs, but he sneaks up after I go to bed!)

Good luck with finding the right dog. Whatever you do, do NOT get a Bloodhound haha! They are my favorite breed, but a good housedog and barndog they do not make!

[Daatje]

[QUOTE=Czar;4345084]
Love the look of the Foxhound - I don't think I've ever actually seen one in real life but I assume these would be the dogs they use for foxhunting? I read a little and I suppose if you find the right one it would be fine, but it does say the breed is liable to take off after a scent and might not be able to be trusted with non-canine pets (but excellent with kids).
QUOTE]


I'd stay away from a fox hound for a pet. I owned a rescue. She was very intelligent but she was a hunter. She also nipped - she never came out and attacked but she'd sneak up behind strangers and grab them by the pants leg. Although she had extensive training she honestly didn't care to work when she wasn't in the mood.

Foxhounds are beautiful and purposely bred animals. They are bred to run with a pack and to hunt and kill. They are more interested in the pack than in their relationship with their human partners.

If you think that's a dog you would be interested in, look more closely at American Pointers. Physically they are very similar but in personality, they are much more people oriented since they have been bred to set and retrieve for a hunter rather than as part of a pack.

No flames please - I know - I'm sure tons of people have had fantastic, obedient fox hounds for pets. They are the exception to the rule.

Ok, gotta stick up for the foxhound here. My inlaws have a female retired from the Old Chatham Hunt due to a staff infection. She is the biggest, mushiest love bug of a dog I have EVER met. And simply beautiful. Not a mean bone in her, anywhere. She's great with all other animals and people and has made a fabulous couch potoato.

She thinks she's a lap dog. :)

I foxhunt too, so I'm around this breed every weekend from August - November. Absolutely love them and I'd give a retiree a home in a heartbeat.

Of course, I am very much a "hound" person. :)

[RedMare01]

I'm also looking for a family friendly breed (even though it's just the DH and I at the moment...we do plan on an addition in the next few years :yes:). I narrowed it down to labs and goldens (had a lab when I was growing up; best dog ever) and will probably go with a golden just because there is a great breeder only a few miles down the road from me. The best lab breeders I could find were several hours away. Like you, I would like to adopt a shelter dog, but the unknown quantity makes me hesitate (my MIL has two adopted lab mixes...one is a great dog, the other cannot be trusted around kids). In my experience, all retrievers are extremely intelligent and easy to train. Visit a few breeders, meet the parents, and then make a decision. :)

Caitlin

[bf1]

I have a boston - but would not recommend them as farm dogs. She is so small she disappears and I can't find her! They are just not as loving and kind as the boxer. They are not all that loyal - she would go with anyone with food - she is totally food focused! And she did bite my niece who woke her from a nap. The one and only time, but unforgivable. My boxer's have never ever thought of "snapping". But she bites the boxer regularly - it is her way of ruling the roost!

[joiedevie99]

Contact all of your local guide dog and therapy dog programs. They have lots of flunk outs that would be perfect for you. A colleague of mine just got one that is one of the nicest dogs I've ever met- under a year old, but incredibly well behaved. He knows every command under the sun. They can flunk out for all sorts of reasons irrelevant to you as well- like licking too much, not growing tall enough to be a support dog, or growing too tall/heavy to be a therapy/lap dog.

[Czar]

I have known even Labs that have bitten children...

We have a JRT and two kids. When the first child started crawling, she got extremely nervous and we were worried about her snapping (she had never offered to bite anyone before).


Unfortunately, my JRT HAS offered. He's turned up his lip at other kids, again when I was right there and they were not being rough or boisterous in the slightest. I can't even remember when it started and sometimes I think I created the issue by overreacting and getting so mad at him, as in, now he thinks there is something "wrong" with kids. I thought that if he got in really big trouble for turning up his lip that he wouldn't do it but...he does. There were many times I wanted to see how far he would go but I just couldn't risk it - as soon as I saw the behaviour, I removed him immediately. And the worst thing is that he is "puppy size" so he's a natural magnet for kids.

His crate is off limits but I feel anxious when the two of them are near each other. I'm a first time mom so maybe I am being neurotic but I could never forgive myself if the dog bit my child in the face. Maybe he won't, maybe he will - argh...I just can't go through that every day.

And I know all dogs have the potential to bite but after this experience, I am convinced that some are just less likely to do so. I have owned this dog since he was 8 weeks old, he was very well socialized...at the barn every day, with my nephews but it didn't seem to matter - even with other dogs, he can act like a little grouch (not always) though he went to the dog park nearly every day for a year. I know for a fact that my sister's boxer would have to be pushed to the absolute extreme to retaliate - my nephew is 4 and they pummel each other on a daily basis - he's none too gentle (and gets in BIG trouble) and she loves to wrestle with him.

So I guess my conscience is asking...do I suck it up and watch the dog like a hawk b/c I had him first or do I find him a suitable home where he won't have to be micro-managed and get a dog that I won't have to worry about constantly? Some days I feel like I say "Cooper" 50 million times a day and I'm sure that's not exactly pleasant either.

[MunchkinsMom]

If you type in the following in Google:

"choosing a dog breed quiz" you will get a list of links to many sites where you fill in the information, and it gives you breed recommendations.

I've had many dog breeds over the years, and the best with anyone - from babies to senior citizens - were my two brittany spaniels. Saints, both of them.

[horse-loverz]

The standard poodle keeps coming up in my search as well. I posted the thread about large breed dogs (i.e., Great Dane size), and strangely enough the conversation turned to poodles! As much as I would love a Dane or a GSD, my husband and I realized that we also need a dog that's fairly portable and neighborhood (vs. farm) friendly.

Right now we have a lab/hound mix who is very sweet and loves kids, cats, horses, other dogs, burglers, :lol: you name it! We were first time dog owners so we sought out an "easy" dog from a reputable rescue and its been a great experience. If I were in your situation, I would definitely hone in on a couple of breeds that you like and search for adult dogs that would easily integrate to your household.

I'm telling you I am sold on my Poodle.:D How could you not love this (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=623783&l=9746e8ef7d&id=1274785839) face.

And everyone that meets him is surprised. I hear "I thought poodles were all hyper nervous dogs" or " well that can't be a poodle he's too big" . My guy is calm as can be in the house. Even when my daughter grabs one of his toys and enticing him to play and chase her he does it at a slow trot.. never jumping on her or getting too wild. He is a snuggle bunny loves to ride in the car and go wherever I go. He is very respectful of the horses and other animals of the barn.He is a very fast learner.. potty trained easily and a very intuitive dog he seems to read minds:lol:. They are comedians and love to perform it seems he is always trying to get a laugh out of me. So far he has been the best dog I have ever owned. :yes:

[Bluey]

Honestly, if your gut feeling is that their interaction is a bite in the making the minute someone turns it's back, why live like that, or risk it does eventually happen?

There are all kinds of dogs and people and situation and yours is too tense to be happy in, so why keep it up?

You will feel terrible if you follow thru and rehome the dog, but you will feel much worse if he bites the kid, with or without reason and then have a bitten child and maybe have to euthanize the dog.

Prevention is better than hindsight, but it is your call what is happening there.:(

I would wait until you have older kids, maybe...

[EqTrainer]

I really think this is an individual thing. I've had all kinds of dogs over the years and most of them were very good w/kids.. some of them not so much. They were all mostly border collies; some crossed w/different things. Bisous was amazing w/the kids; you would have thought he would have been jealous but he wasn't. He just didn't like it when they sneezed, for some reason it sent him running to me to fix it!

My current pure bred BC was not ok w/my daughter at first. With training and work, he seems to have outgrown it. Having said that, he wants to be an only dog and when I find him his only dog home, I will give him away. My other two dogs - a chow/hound/lab cross (I know, it sounds awful but he is very cute!) and a Pyr/??? cross are great w/the kids.

So I would really just evaluate each dog as an individual and see what you come up w/. I am a big fan of the local pound; the chow mix came from there and the Pyr from the feed store. Both free. Priceless!

[Nanerpus]

Well then, you are back to the Standard Poodle!

Or An Engie!!!!! They are SMART too!!!! and amazing family dogs!

[Nanerpus]

http://www.terrificpets.com/dog_breeds/English_Cocker_Spaniel.asp

(Scroll down to the "Temperament" section - you'll be pleased about how they are regarded around children! I can testify to that description, at least with our last 5)

[animaldoc]

You have to do what you need to to keep your child safe of course.....and I totally understand JRTs (ours was 2 when we adopted her from the Humane Society, 5 when we had our first and 8 now. She will be with us for life.).

But look at it from your dog's POV. He's around kids. He tries to tell them nicely to back off and you get all mad at him. This happens over and over. Now he's decided that kids are not really a good idea, since everytime they're around, you get mad at him. Makes perfect sense to him.....

Then when a baby comes in the house, when the baby is around, the people are busy with the baby and can't pay much attention to the him. Plus, they don't want him to jump on the baby or hurt it, so he gets shooed away. Maybe they put up a baby gate to keep the dog out of the living room when the baby is in there crawling around. When baby is sleeping, the people have a chance to play with the dog and feed it, take it for walks, give treats, etc. So again, in the dogs mind, life stinks when the baby is around, but when the baby is gone, life is better!

This is why many vets/trainers etc. will recommend that you ignore the dog when the baby is asleep, and give treats for investigating the baby nicely or sitting nicely when the baby is around etc. Make the baby being around a very positive experience, and the dog will like the baby more and view it as a good addition to the family.

It's really hard right now to find homes for dogs-especially ones that "might bite a child" (and you would have to disclose that that's why you're getting rid of him, right?). If you do rehome him, please don't get another dog until your child(ren) are at least 5.

Having a baby is an adjustment for every member of the family. Our JRT is now great with our kids, but we still never leave them together without supervision.

Sorry if that's not what you wanted to hear, but I've had too many dogs brought in for euthanasia because the people had a baby, or are going to move, or it doesn't match their couch, etc.

[EqTrainer]

Honestly, if your gut feeling is that their interaction is a bite in the making the minute someone turns it's back, why live like that, or risk it does eventually happen?

There are all kinds of dogs and people and situation and yours is too tense to be happy in, so why keep it up?

You will feel terrible if you follow thru and rehome the dog, but you will feel much worse if he bites the kid, with or without reason and then have a bitten child and maybe have to euthanize the dog.

Prevention is better than hindsight, but it is your call what is happening there.:(

I would wait until you have older kids, maybe...

I agree w/this 100% and don't think the OP is being a bad person or bad owner because she sees something coming that she knows she should head off NOW.

Animaldoc, I think maybe if you were a human ER doctor you might be able to be a little more realistic, my friends who are tell stories that are horrific about kids being bitten by dogs. What if the OP ignores her gut, tries to work thru it and the dog bites the kid? Then what? Everyone loses. At least this way she has a chance to find a good home for the dog and the kid doesn't get bit. It's hard to see that as wrong.

[animaldoc]

She needs to do what she needs to do to keep her child safe. Absolutely.

But the point of my post was to point out WHY the dog may be acting like that and to encourage her NOT to try and "fix" this by getting a different dog, since another dog might interpret the situation the same way (and then you STILL end up with a dog biting a child, only now it's a bigger dog).

If she feels that her child isn't safe, she should definitely try to rehome the dog, and then NOT get another dog anytime soon IMO.

[Nezzy]

She needs to do what she needs to do to keep her child safe. Absolutely.

But the point of my post was to point out WHY the dog may be acting like that and to encourage her NOT to try and "fix" this by getting a different dog, since another dog might interpret the situation the same way (and then you STILL end up with a dog biting a child, only now it's a bigger dog).

If she feels that her child isn't safe, she should definitely try to rehome the dog, and then NOT get another dog anytime soon IMO.

i have to agree the energy in the home is not right for any dog. JRT's have raised many, many kids. And when i was a kid you were warned not to bother the dogs or YOU got a smack on the bottom and sent to your room. The parent is so nervous right now, the dog is feeding off that energy. JRT's don't put up with being mishandled and i don't think any dog should have to deal with kids pulling on them or getting in their face. If that is what the child is allowed to do, then the dog never stood a chance.

[BLBGP]

With a child that young, I'd recommend finding an adult dog with an established personality. Purebred or mixed breed, as long as it's personality meshes with your family and your lifestyle. Check your local shelter, find a dog that has an A on it's SAFER test and that will mesh well with the energy in your household. A good shelter should be able to point you in the right direction.

[Casey09]

Czar wrote He's turned up his lip at other kids, again when I was right there and they were not being rough or boisterous in the slightest. I can't even remember when it started and sometimes I think I created the issue by overreacting and getting so mad at him, as in, now he thinks there is something "wrong" with kids. I thought that if he got in really big trouble for turning up his lip that he wouldn't do it but...he does.

It sounds like he certainly doesn't have an affinity for kids, so I'm not blaming you at all. However, for the future, I have heard that you should be careful about training out a growl or a snarl, because you want a warning before the bite. Obviously, your JRT does still warn before biting, but it is something to be aware of. Training in these types of situations is tricky. If a dog doesn't like something, be it other dogs or men or people with umbrellas, you don't want them to start going, "Every time I see one I get in trouble" because then you've built a negative association when you really wanted to build a positive one. That is, in my opinion, the reason it is important to have a really good trainer or behaviorist as a resource to help you work through behavior problems - especially any type of aggression.

I would just say that all dogs will bite with the right trigger (i.e. some over taking food away, pulling their hair, etc.). Some dogs are inappropriate for homes with kids because they just don't tolerate them. You have to be careful with any dog, but I can understand why you are rehoming the JRT and it sounds like he has a good spot lined up. I do think that, in general, it is harder for a lot of couples to integrate the dog they had when they were childless to their kids later because the dog just hasn't grown up that way.

However, it is also important to remember that while your sister's boxer tolerates a lot now, as a puppy/young dog, that might change as she gets older and crankier. It might not change, but the potential is there. When I was growing up, my neighbor's had a boxer that was quite nasty to passersby. I've meant a lot of great boxers, but I don't think that there is a foul-proof breed of dog for everyone.

Personally, I think it would be a lot easier to wait until your son gets a little older - just in terms of exercising the dog and training the dog. I am sure he gets a lot of entertainment out of watching the dog, and I agree that it is sad completely. However, if you waited a few years he could be more involved with the dog from the beginning, and I think that would be more beneficial in terms of making sure that the puppy is bonded to him as well as to you.

[Daydream Believer]

Sorry, this is going to be long:

I have just recently been forced to face the music that my 3 yr old JRT is just never going to be trustworthy with kids. We've had him since he was 8 weeks old and though he was exposed to kids at the barn and my nephews, he just isn't a kid dog.

I'd always believed that if you get a dog as a puppy, you can socialize them and acclimatize them to anything and it has been very disheartening to be unable to get Coop to accept children even when they are being kind & gentle. I've tried everything and though I don't totally buy into breed stereotypes, I'm beginning to think that it's just in him.



I used to breed JRT's and was a JRTCA breeder. We had to sign a Breeders Ethics agreement and one mandate was that we would not knowingly sell a puppy into a home with children under 6 years old. They are NOT a breed known for being tolerant with small children and while I'm not trying to flame you, you probably could have researched that up front before getting the dog knowing you'd have kids around it. While there are exceptions to the rule, there are reasons why a breed registry would make their breeders sign such an agreement. It's in the dogs and the children's best interests in the long run.

[lcw579]

I'm telling you I am sold on my Poodle.:D How could you not love this (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=623783&l=9746e8ef7d&id=1274785839) face.

And everyone that meets him is surprised. I hear "I thought poodles were all hyper nervous dogs" or " well that can't be a poodle he's too big" . My guy is calm as can be in the house. Even when my daughter grabs one of his toys and enticing him to play and chase her he does it at a slow trot.. never jumping on her or getting too wild. He is a snuggle bunny loves to ride in the car and go wherever I go. He is very respectful of the horses and other animals of the barn.He is a very fast learner.. potty trained easily and a very intuitive dog he seems to read minds:lol:. They are comedians and love to perform it seems he is always trying to get a laugh out of me. So far he has been the best dog I have ever owned. :yes:


I love that face! Looks like the face laying on my couch right now! We got our girl when my oldest daughter was 3 and her little sister was a year old. She never took a wrong step or raised a lip at any child. Our third daughter followed the following summer and she'll tell anyone who'll listen that she and the poodle are "Irish twins" :lol:

The poodle is 11 now and slowing down but she still likes to come the barn on occasion and has never barked at a horse or chased one. She seemed to know just how she was expected to behave without being told and she passed that on to the rescue mutt when we brought him home. They really are amazing dogs.

Trust us! Once you get your first Standard Poodle you'll never want to be without one again. :yes:

[JWB]

You mention wanting a "smart" dog. Standard poodles are very smart. They're also extremely high energy and most have wonderful tempers. Again, I'd recommend a training class because these dogs are extremely playful and high energy.

Other "smart" breeds of dogs are dobies, rotweillers, golden retrievers and german shepherds.

[Sillymoose]

They don't call the American Pit Bull Terrier the "Nanny Dog" for nothing. I absolutely love this breed and although I haven't had one yet I've researched them extensively and I will definitely have one as my first dog when I get out of school. They are absolutely wonderful with children and the family and are known for being complete clowns. Since they are terriers they do have a high prey drive so it's important to socialize them early and get them some solid obedience training. They are highly intelligent and are just all around goofy, friendly dogs. As much as I love this breed though they aren't for everyone. They do need an owner who understands the public perception of this breed and who can be sure to keep their dogs safe and out of any bad situations. I just thought I'd throw a different breed into the mix since you said you like bully breeds and since they are pretty much the ultimate children's dog.

After the APBT I'd have to recommend the lab. We had 3 growing up and they have been the best dogs ever. Absolutely amazing with kids and totally became members of the family. We found all of ours to be highly intelligent and work really hard to please the family. Our 2nd lab, Buddy, loved to help carry in the groceries and bring in the newspaper. Labs are also highly perceptive of their family members and are wonderful at finding ways of communicating. Buddy would grab one of our hands, thank goodness for that soft retriever mouth, and take us to the door when he wanted to go out. They are highly trainable and are just a joy to be around. Ours have also been wonderful around the horses and pretty much ignore them altogether. We take our current lab Sassy every time we jump judge she just sits there the whole time and doesn't even blink an eye with the horses galloping past. They also have never had any problems with our cats and do great with any other cats we've encountered. All and all an amazing dog.

[Bluey]

Since the OP wanted a smaller dog, I would go, if with a poodle, with the miniature.
Those are big enough for anything, but not as big as standards and not as neurotic as some toys can be, along with being more fragile.

The life expectancy of a toy poodle is only 3.5 years, because they tend to have fatal accidents so easily, although they can live into their mid teens if they are kept safe.

We used to have both, some toy and miniatures and both sizes were good farm dogs, went with us every place, one toy was our best tracking dog ever, never missed a turn or blind spot, but would get highcentered on dried cowchips.:lol:

One miniature had good herding instincts, would have trained if we had wished and I know two that were good cattle herding dogs.

Just more information on poodles, if the OP is considering them.
I don't have one now because I got tired of the continuous clipping, that I had to do on at one time three of them.

I would think twice, in today's world, if to get a breed that others may be afraid of and if something were to happen, would immediately be a problem just because of the bad press the breed has.

[CB/TB]

Our dearly departed Ruby was a Lab-Hound X and she was a wonderful dog. She had a hound personality- loved everyone and very low activity level. We tend to like the sporting breeds, GSPs in particular. They are very high energy and never seem to grow up! I think I'd go with the Poodle, too, but a standard, rather than a mini.

[GotGait]

I love my Shiba Inu and wouldn't have anything else, but I don't recommend them - especially if you have other small furry/feathery snacks, er... critters.

[Wayside]

I used to breed JRT's and was a JRTCA breeder. We had to sign a Breeders Ethics agreement and one mandate was that we would not knowingly sell a puppy into a home with children under 6 years old.

This practice has always kind of made me shake my head. While I understand the principle, and I certainly wouldn't want to place a dog in a family where it would be unlikely to succeed, there's simply no way to mandate that these owners won't have new babies or grandkids come into their lives in the next say 15 years that the dog continues to live.

We were looking for a dog when my son was 4, and there were plenty of places who wouldn't speak to us for that reason. Personally, I thought it would be better to adopt out to someone who had already had a small well-behaved child who knew about "dog rules", and was obviously commited to enforcing good pet-child interactions than someone who could squeeze out a face pinching tail pulling brat in a couple years, but that's just me.

Someone mentioned the pit bull, and the pits I've known who were raised properly have been the gentlest sweetest dogs. I remember growing up there was one that wandered the neighborhood, and was always where the kids were, getting cuddles. Sadly, many of the pits that end up in shelters around here are not other pet or kid-safe because they've been treated very poorly :no:

That poodle face was darling! I've heard they're really smart dogs, but I haven't had the opportunity to meet very many.

Obviously that's what this thread really needs. More pictures! So I'm adding a link to one of Tessa, the Schnauzemutt. Really, it's pretty gratuitous, though, since I haven't seen another mutt quite like her. So here are some shots of Tessa, in all her ridiculous hairy-faced glory :lol:

http://family.webshots.com/photo/2064538260100789832EILzaD

http://family.webshots.com/photo/2120854450100789832mTlNGo

[Daydream Believer]

This practice has always kind of made me shake my head. While I understand the principle, and I certainly wouldn't want to place a dog in a family where it would be unlikely to succeed, there's simply no way to mandate that these owners won't have new babies or grandkids come into their lives in the next say 15 years that the dog continues to live.



True...but at least the breeder is not knowingly placing a puppy into a situation where there are small children and with a breed that is not known for being good with kids. Certainly no one can say what will happen later with a family that you sell a puppy to, but you can't know the future...you have to deal with the present. We also could not sell a puppy under 8 weeks old, nor to a pet store, nor to a home without a fenced in or safe area for the dog to exercise. We were also expected to be responsible for the dogs we bred for the rest of their lives. It's a shame more breed registries don't hold their breeders to such high standards of ethical behavior.

[OffTheHook]

I'm going to agree with Yellowbritches here and say look into rescues. There are exceptions to every rule, so while a certain breed may have a reputation as being good with children not every dog of that breed will fall into that category. Maybe try to find a dog in a rescue that is being fostered in a home with children and then you'll know whether or not the dog is good with kids. Not completely risk free of course but it's a step in the right direction. There are a ton of rescues out there that only use foster homes, no shelters. Give it a whirl and you may find a small dog being fostered nearby who adores his foster family's kids. Good luck!

[Wayside]

True...but at least the breeder is not knowingly placing a puppy into a situation where there are small children and with a breed that is not known for being good with kids. Certainly no one can say what will happen later with a family that you sell a puppy to, but you can't know the future...you have to deal with the present. We also could not sell a puppy under 8 weeks old, nor to a pet store, nor to a home without a fenced in or safe area for the dog to exercise. We were also expected to be responsible for the dogs we bred for the rest of their lives. It's a shame more breed registries don't hold their breeders to such high standards of ethical behavior.


I just wanted to claify, since sometimes things like tone can be lost in these posts, that I have the utmost respect for these kinds of guidelines, and breeders who are committed to placing dogs appropriately. Additionally, I realize that comtemplating the "what-ifs" when screening homes is not always practical.

Perhaps it's a touchy subject for me since about the same time we got the dog, we "accidentally" aquired a declawed house cat that had been dumped at a nearby barn, and nearly starved to death. Because the owners were going to have a baby. According to the "no kids under 6" rule, less than a year earlier, they would have been allowed to adopt an animal, but I would not. And ironically, I've never seen another cat that's as tolerant of kids as this one. We jokingly call him "The Babykiller" because we can't imagine how on earth anyone ever thought he coud be a threat to their child.

Sometimes it would just be nice if things could be guidelines, rather than rules, and such things could be decided on a case-by-case basis. But sadly, there will always be some people who will take advantage when given the chance. On both sides of the deal.

So please don't be offended, and I hope that didn't come out all wrong.

[Daydream Believer]

Wayside,

I was not offended at all. I was just clarifying why I felt that having a breeder standard of ethics is a good thing also. I do think sometimes having set rules like these can be problematic but overall having the rules is better than having none.

[Czar]

Just to clarify...we did have JRT's growing up so I am fairly familiar with the breed. I mistakenly thought if I got the dog as a puppy and socialized it to situations that I wanted it to be comfortable with than all would be well. It was my understanding that any dog could be a family dog if trained properly but I guess that's like saying that a saddlebred can be an A circuit hunter - just not bred for the job.

And again, I will reiterate, not my child nor anyone else's have ever been allowed to pull/yank/tease or otherwise maul this dog. My son is 8 months old...I can't exactly tell him not to go near the dog and smack him on the bottom if he doesn't obey.

I always say "gentle" when we are anywhere near the dog and right from the get-go I allowed the dog near the baby to sniff/lick his face and NEVER shooed him away in hopes that he wouldn't get a negative vibe. I've tried not to hover when they are near each other so that the dog could interact with the baby on his own terms and really, up til last week it had been fine. The dog ignored my son for the most part (except when he decided he needed a face cleaning) but I told myself the minute I noticed any aggressive behaviour, I would have to make a decision about the dog. I had SO hoped I wouldn't have to.

I am sort of getting the vibe though from this thread that the curled lip wasn't that bad?? I know it's a warning and the dog didn't actually bite, but isn't that the next step? And the behaviour to me seemed completely out of place. I wouldn't have blamed the dog for snarling if a child had yanked his ear but literally, my son was running his hand gently over the hair on his back and I was RIGHT there - no reason to feel threatened.

Anyway, I love the idea of contacting a working dog program for any dogs that didn't meet the mark. Would never have thought of that.

[Horsegal984]

While I personally love APBTs, I wouldn't get one with a small child, because I doubt many of his friends will be allowed to come over and play. Many many people have a bad perception about the breed, without understanding it. They read the horror stories on the news, and see them represented with Mike Vick type press, and they decide they're awful dogs and evil and cannot even be nice and not eat humans.

Their reputation for Nanny dogs came before they were bred to fight, and researching which bloodlines are 'fight' lines will help anyone who is looking to find a good one. Find a good breeder and spend some time with their dogs. And talk to your vet, I'm betting atleast 2 people on their staff will have APBT or mixes.

One of the girls I work with has a red APBT, and she was trained to 'place' on her bed and stay there. She was laying on her bed in the back room of the clinic and I turn around and she's gotten up and is halfway across the room. Got ready to fuss at her for getting up, then realized another employee's 9#terrier mix has grabbed the end of Emma's still attached leash and was using it as a tug to pull her around! All I could do was laugh, Emma had the "I know this is wrong but she made me look."

Katherine
Vet Tech

[yellowbritches]

We jokingly call him "The Babykiller" because we can't imagine how on earth anyone ever thought he coud be a threat to their child.
Ha! We actually jokingly refer to my sister's dog (an SPCA special...she's a golden mix of some sort). When my sister went looking, she really wanted a dog that she'd be comfortable having her friends with babies and kids be around. That was a big criteria for her. Lola is such a powderpuff (and loves kids), but we always refer to her as Babykiller. My brother actually had a tag made that says that, that Lola wears with pride along with her real tag and her Chicago dog tag (ok...my family is twisted....)....

My own dog is actually not supposed to be good with kids...that's the reason she was given up. People had a baby, and didn't like something a 9 month old Stella did, so they sent her off to the shelter (a kill shelter at that). I guess no one thought that maybe a puppy needed to be instructed on how to behave around babies? Their loss. She is incredibly good with kids, even the itty bitty ones she's been exposed to (my old roommate's much younger baby brother used to crawl all over her and roomie's dog).

[animaldoc]

My son is 8 months old...I can't exactly tell him not to go near the dog
You can start - this is exactly what we did. Sent the JRT to her bed and then removed the baby. When she crawled back towards the bed, we told her "we don't bother Belle in her bed" and removed her to another area and got her interested in something else. We didn't let her get close enough to the bed that the dog became uncomfortable. We also never left them unsupervised together. Now at 3, they're big buddies, and the 11 mo old knows pretty well to leave the dog alone when she's in her bed. When the dog is out of the bed, she's fair game for supervised petting (gentle touches), but if she's in her bed, off limits, no exceptions. It's her "safe" place. WE don't even bother her in her bed! :D
And the behaviour to me seemed completely out of place. I wouldn't have blamed the dog for snarling if a child had yanked his ear but literally, my son was running his hand gently over the hair on his back and I was RIGHT there - no reason to feel threatened.
But from the dog's POV, you have this little creature that moves very unnaturally (crawling? Is that prey or human?) and erratically, that is closer than he wants it to be, and he has no reason to think that you will take it away (since you were right there and not doing anything about it), so the only way he could tell the baby to back off was to lift his lip.

The behaviorist I talked to actually had terriers and children, and she told me her terriers "lost their minds" a little when the babies started crawling, but that they were much better when the baby started walking - almost like they realized it was actually a person again....extreme anthropormorphizing, I know, but made sense.

[Trevelyan96]

Czar, you are absolutely doing the right thing, both for your JRT and your child.

As for rescues, you can have good luck there if you work with a reputable rescue that does its homework and fosters the dogs first for temperament testing. Many do this.

Another great dog breed that I haven't seen mentioned is the Bouvier. They're protective, but fairly calm.

Terriers, in general, are smart with great personalities, but they are also very independent and not tjhe most tolerant in general. And most of them have high energy and prey drives.

Labs and goldens are well known for being kid friendly. And although I'm not a fan of 'designer dogs', as they've created a whole new puppy mill industry, I've seen a lot of labradoodles out there who are just phenomenal dogs.

[Horsegal984]

Please be very very careful with a doodle, or anything -oodle(that isn't a poodle!). Just like any designer breed they are essentially mutts, and because there is no common breeding(i.e. generations) they are really a crap shoot as to how they are going to come out. If you get a mized breed dog get one that is an adult, so you have a better idea of temprament. Even if the parents were great there is no gaurantee that the pups will be when dealing with outcrossings(mixes).

Just like a prebred, if you're looking at a doodle find a good breeder, and they should have all necessary testing done on genetic problems for both breeds. Most doodles I've seen have been a little nutty, and typically MORE hyper than straight labs/goldens. They also have the poodle intelligence, so they really need more mental stimulation.

i think for your situation you would be better off with a purebred, preferrrably one for a breeder who has been showing and breeding generations of dogs. Also look for breeders who show in more than conformation classes, such as agility, herding, tracking, or other breed 'sports' because it's generally a good indiation the dogs have a good brain to go with good looks.

Katherine
Vet Tech

[horse-loverz]

One of my daughter's doctors had a goldendoodle and he is HYPER!! I took my poodle there once and she was amazed at how calm he is especially for a puppy. She asked why didn't my dog get THAT part of the Poodle :lol:. He really is a handful at a year and a half old. Now she is thinking maybe a straight poodle would have been a better idea :lol::lol::lol:

[OffTheHook]

Trevelyan96 mentioned Bouviers and I just have to say that I grew up with one and loved him to pieces. My mom got him as a puppy when she was pregnant with me so he was a big part of my childhood. He was a fantastic guard dog and also just loved my brother and sister and me. We'd all play this big game where he chased us around the livingroom and then jump on the couches to be "safe" from him. And by chase I mean lope around while us three ran in every which direction. He was just an awesome dog.

[Mav226]

Most of the well bred rottweilers I've met have been completely smitten and in love with "their" children. Mine is.

I grew up on a farm with dobermans and they were fantastic around kids. (it was a kids lesson barn, so tons of kiddies) They were not cold weather beasties though, so probably not practical if they would be outside in the rain/snow/cold.

[clm08]

I have had 5 mini poodles in the last 30 years of my life. The first one did it to me, I was totally hooked on the breed after having the most loyal, loving, smart dog I could ever had wished for. All my poodles were extremely well behaved towards my kids. I wish I could find the video I took of my oldest daughter, then maybe a little over 18 months old, playing with my first poodle's squeeky toy. She was on my bed, holding and squeeking the toy at him, and he was on the floor, jumping up an down trying to reach the toy but in a playful manner. He could easily jump on the bed and forcefully take the toy away from her, but all he did was jump up and down, grab the toy once in a while and let it go again, so she continued with the game giggling madly.

A few years later, I had 2 other young poodles, and my daughters were then 5 and 3. They would dress up the poor dogs in baby clothes, put baby hats on them, then sit them up in their doll strollers and push them around as if they were babies! The dogs put up with all of that and never ever growled or snapped at the kids. I had to end up the game to give the dogs some reprieve from my girls.

Both girls grew up always having one of the poodles sleep in bed with them. I always said I had 2-legged and 4-legged children.:lol:

Oh, and yes, I lived 10 years on a small farm with my poodles, a lab, and a weimaraner, horses, a cow and an occasional calf. Dogs were always well behaved with all the rest of the menagerie.

[NRB]

I have a 2.5 yo daughter and recently got a 3.5 mo Standard Schnauzer. I lost my last dog right before my daughter came along. So I did a lot of soul searching and breed research as well before I got the current pup. So things I can recommend to you, do your research, figure out what your most important criteria are, then call up breeders (or rescues) and start talking to people. Go meet them and their dogs and do NOT fall in love with the first pup you see, be logical in your approach, not emotional. I emailed and talked with several breeders before I found one I was interested in meeting.

My breeder picked the dog for me, not the other way around. And I wouldn't do it any other way.

My breeder didn't take deposits, she insisted on meeting the family and letting us interact with her dogs and the pup she felt was suited to us. She was vetting us out as much as we were vetting her out.

My breeder will take the puppy back, no questions asked at any time. And would be happy to place a dog with me in the future if I wanted one.

And FWIW this particular pup was Volhund tested, and score very high in the tolerance areas. IE high pain threshold and didn't resist being held on her back.

YOU do have to watch the puppy/child interaction. Puppies can get hyped up by the child and start bouncing around. A 20lb bouncing puppy can knock a toddler down.

I've always had strays, and rescues. Dogs that I had taken in as 6 mo or 8yo. Never a puppy. I also agonized over the shelter dogs vs the purebred dogs. I really wanted to be safe, so I went the purebred route. I do think that you can find a wonderful dog or pup at the local animal shelter. My dog of a lifetime was a stray black male. He'd have been terriffic with my daughter, and I am so sad that he passed before meeting her.

But with all that said, having a puppy in the house with a toddler is exactly like having 2 2yo's in the house. Be prepared to have a lot of free time for both, keep your sense of humor with you at all times and forget getting a good nights sleep!

I was about to go for a Standard Poodle until I watched my daughters arm completely disappear in the mouth of the family standard Poodle. The dog didn't leave a mark, but it scared me to pieces since all my daughter did was calmly walk up to it and reach out to per her. And this dog had been around countless family babies/toddlers/children by this time. Standards can be a little sensitive, and I'd pick a less sensitive dog for that reason. I realize that folks on this board have had good experience with Standards, but I just couldn't talk my hubby into it after that little incident.

[lcw579]

NRB - I think the problem with some Standards these days is that the breed has gotten popular so they are being overbred. We have had them for over 30 years and have never had a high strung poodle or one that even looked cross eyed at a child. The only time an arm disappeared into a mouth was when the sticky stuff was being licked off or the child was being gently led away from danger.

However, over the last few years as the doodles have gotten popular I have noticed some dogs that were barely recognizeable as Standard Poodles at the dog park. My girl liked to go as a pup to wrestle with her two boxer boyfriends and as she got older to get cookies. Even as a puppy she would look askance at the dogs that were running around aimlessly in circles. As far as she's concerned unless you are chasing something there is no reason to run around like an idiot. We were both shocked when we saw more than one poodle doing the running in circles thing - I swear the grand old dame looked at me and shook her head in disgust like her breed had betrayed her! Moral of the story is, OP, when you get your poodle make sure it is from a breeder that has been around for a number of years.

[buschkn]

I would also agree with the posters who say to look for an adult dog. You are much more likely to know what you are getting than with a puppy, as you have already seen. I have 5 rescues- 2 GSDs, a Lab/Golden mix, a Heeler/Basset mix, and a Pyrenees mix. All except the Pyr I got as adult, and all of them are great with kids. I think you can better assess their temperament that way.

Going through a rescue, esp if there is a certain breed you are interested in, is a great idea. Many rescues will keep dogs in foster homes instead of kennels etc so that they can really assess the dog in many situations and see what sort of home will be best for them. An adult dog from a reputable breeder is also a good idea. I did that once many years ago in school and he was a perfect citizen.

Good luck with what you decide. Waiting until your child is older is not a bad idea, but being an avid dog person myself, I'm not sure I could do that. Good luck!!

[regeventer]

Labrador Retrievers !!!!!!!!!!

[aude]

I love Bostons - I've researched quite a bit about the breed...just don't know how well they'd do in a farm situation b/c of the short coat. They just seem frail - but I've never owned one personally so what do I know? I don't mind a bit of high energy if it can be expended through exercise (we LOVE walks & hacks) but not too keen on the high energy types that just.can't.sit.still.

Bernese Mountain dogs have a little bit of a longer coat than I'd like - anyone know about the Swiss Mountain Dog that seems similar but has the shorter coat? I did know a gal on our circuit that had a Bernese and it wasn't overly friendly - little standoffish but that was only one dog.



Regarding Boston Terriers no they are not frail dogs, the only thing is they do tend do get cold in the winter, mine have to wear a jacket when it's cold, but they do stay outside with their jacket, even in the snow (http://www.bellapix.com/STORAGE2/BELLAPIX/ALBUMS/USER43/USER433e/USER433ec51243c09/images/DSC02412.jpg). More snow (http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v1967/103/107/696579430/n696579430_1064964_1479.jpg)
Aside from that I'd say mine are probably sturdier than my labs and my bernese! They also tend to come in different sizes, my biggest female weighs arond 19lbs, and isn't fat, so she's a small dog, but not one that you'd be afraid to step on. She's bigger than most JRTs. Boston Terriers are high energy, but definitely not the type that can't sit still, they are perfectly well behaved when they have to be, but typically not the kind of dog that can take little/no exercise.

Regarding the Swiss Mt Dog I would advise you to steer clear of the breed, for several reason, first there tends to be quite a bit of dominance issues in the breed, they tend to be pretty nasty with other dogs. There also is an EXTREMELY high proportion of epileptic dogs in the breed. There's also another swiss dog, the Apenzeller, between the size of a beagle and a lab, but definately the can't sit still type, and very barky

[Czar]

they do stay outside with their jacket, even in the snow (http://www.bellapix.com/STORAGE2/BELLAPIX/ALBUMS/USER43/USER433e/USER433ec51243c09/images/DSC02412.jpg). More snow (http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v1967/103/107/696579430/n696579430_1064964_1479.jpg)


Oh they are so cute I could eat them!

As much as I love Bostons; they don't seem to be known to be good with kids though could be on an individual basis I guess.

The suggestions here have been great - I'd like to stay as close to my preferences as possible without compromising the attributes my family will need.

I'd love a dog that is a little unique like a Bull Terrier or a Blue Heeler. I'm really leaning towards a Bully as I have always liked the breed and they do seem to be excellent with kids (watched videos on YouTube :lol:).

Anyway, thanks again to all - I'm still kind of struggling with giving away the JRT...he can be so great sometimes and he is so ridiculously affectionate with me. I wonder if we got another dog that was really great with kids if that would take the heat of the Jack and he could stay? Any ideas on that?

[vacation1]

I'd love a dog that is a little unique

Get a mutt, they're very unique:lol: Seriously, I think in your shoes I'd look for an adult female dog from a very good animal shelter (ie, not one that's taken optimism as a drug), looking for a dog who absolutely LOVES kids, one that when you take her out of the kennel for a test run would rather be with your child than you. I'd also look for a dog who gets along with other dogs and is good with cats, small animals, etc. Just an all-around pacifist with strong motherly instincts, preferably light and/or small enough that a child can safely handle walking her on leash at a young age, an issue I think too many people overlook.

Anyway, thanks again to all - I'm still kind of struggling with giving away the JRT...he can be so great sometimes and he is so ridiculously affectionate with me. I wonder if we got another dog that was really great with kids if that would take the heat of the Jack and he could stay? Any ideas on that?

I think it wouldn't change the situation enough. The JRT doesn't tolerate kids, and that's not going to change enough to trust him with them. Ultimately, he's always going to consider aggression a potential tactic to control a child. He's small, and you might make it work, but I think your child would be much better off growing up with a dog who's a 110% positive influence, not the slightly scary family member who needs his space.

[aude]

Oh they are so cute I could eat them!

As much as I love Bostons; they don't seem to be known to be good with kids though could be on an individual basis I guess.

The suggestions here have been great - I'd like to stay as close to my preferences as possible without compromising the attributes my family will need.

I'd love a dog that is a little unique like a Bull Terrier or a Blue Heeler. I'm really leaning towards a Bully as I have always liked the breed and they do seem to be excellent with kids (watched videos on YouTube :lol:).

Anyway, thanks again to all - I'm still kind of struggling with giving away the JRT...he can be so great sometimes and he is so ridiculously affectionate with me. I wonder if we got another dog that was really great with kids if that would take the heat of the Jack and he could stay? Any ideas on that?
actually almost all boston terriers I know are great with kids, it's the case for most BTs
here are a couple of videos of BTs with children, mine are like that, they usually end up getting dressed up by kids, or having to do some kind of agility course, they always are very willing to comply, esp. when food is involved :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gitv4P5zpUw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9o14TLEex8

[FindersKeepers]

In my experience, if you want to go little dog, mutts are better with kids than purebreds. This is reverse wth a larger breed.

I have a maltese/poodle mix and he finds children absolutely fascinating. He tolerates any amount of petting, pinching, poking, pulling. If he has enough, he runs away. He never, ever gives them a sour look or makes a sound. I don't have children, but we were at a show 2 weeks ago and a 2 year old tried to pick him up by his tail. He just hung out. When she let go, he trotted off.

I've had similar experiences with several other poodle mixes. They seem to be highly intelligent and patient creatures.

Golden Retrievers and labs are notorious great family dogs.

If you're going to go with an adult dog, make sure they've lived with kids before. It's a lot more complicated for a 5 year old dog to adjust to that lifestyle than a puppy, and they aren't always all that patient. If they've only lived with adults, children are foreign

[llsc]

Oh they are so cute I could eat them!

As much as I love Bostons; they don't seem to be known to be good with kids though could be on an individual basis I guess.

The suggestions here have been great - I'd like to stay as close to my preferences as possible without compromising the attributes my family will need.

I'd love a dog that is a little unique like a Bull Terrier or a Blue Heeler. I'm really leaning towards a Bully as I have always liked the breed and they do seem to be excellent with kids (watched videos on YouTube :lol:).

Anyway, thanks again to all - I'm still kind of struggling with giving away the JRT...he can be so great sometimes and he is so ridiculously affectionate with me. I wonder if we got another dog that was really great with kids if that would take the heat of the Jack and he could stay? Any ideas on that?

Actually, I have done a ton of research on Bull Terriers, because I really, really wanted one and they seem to be bad with kids and cats, and if you pull them up as a breed on petfinder, almost everyone is listed as no kids/no cats.

I chose to get a pug instead since I have kids, cats and horses here at home and didn't want something I had to watch all the time. I had Bostons before the Pug, until very recently, and I adored them and I am sorry I didn't get another Boston. The Pug is a bit too low energy for my older kids. They love to run and jump and go crazy and the Bostons were perfect for going all day. They were hyper, but when you told them to go lay down, they just went and listened very well. I'd highly recommend a Boston, and the Pug if you like something a little more cat like.

You should go through a rescue because they are very good at evaluating their dogs and will give you the straight scoop on what the dog is like. Why not just contact some places that do all kinds of breeds and just ask for a dog that fits your criteria, rather than looking for a specific breed. You will have the best luck that way.

My mom runs a rescue and has a few right now that are amazing with children and they are already house broken and very well behaved. She has some smaller terriers and some border collie mixes that would fit your bill very well. The BC mixes are really nice because the cross usually tones down the BC tendencies enough to make them good house dogs, but they are smart and quick to listen like the regular BCs.

Call Kate Scott, Friends of Pep Rescue. 570-842-4768 She has about 40 or so dogs to choose from and knows them all inside and out.

Some of them are listed on Petfinder. Here's her link. http://www.petfinder.com/search/search.cgi?pet.Animal=Dog&pet.Breed=&pet.Age=&pet.Size=&pet.Sex=&location=18424

I should also mention that I have three rescue dogs along with the pug and they are all awesome. Great with the kids and very well behaved. One is some kind of wire haired terrier with really long ears? One is a Shepard mix, and a Lab/Boxer pup. I love my muts.

[MissCapitalSplash]

I am a total Boston fanatic. I had always been a big dog person. I actually always had Aussies, GSD, and labs. Then this spring my wife wanted a smallish dog that acted like a big dog. After a lot of research we ended up with Fenway, a female boston. Oh my goodness. It was love. We decided we never wanted anything else, ever! Fenway is the best dog. At 5 months old she is starting agility sequencing, knows a million tricks,and has the best personality of any dog I've ever known. She is amazing with kids.
Then we heard of some Boston mix pups that needed a home. Along came Frankie. He's a boston/pug mix. I don't call him a bugg because he's a mistake, not a designer dog.But he's a doll and we adore him.
And call us crazy but just yesterday we rescued an 19 month old male Boston. Dyson is a BIG Boston. Adorable though. And just as goofy as the rest. His family could not have him anymore and he needed a new address asap. We took him in as a foster but I would imagine he is staying.

Every Boston I've met is great with kids. They are adorable, smart, and hilarious. Just youtube some videos. ;)
We do have coats for our kids as they get cold, but they still love the outdoors. Great around the horses!

[aude]

I am a total Boston fanatic. I had always been a big dog person. I actually always had Aussies, GSD, and labs. Then this spring my wife wanted a smallish dog that acted like a big dog. After a lot of research we ended up with Fenway, a female boston. Oh my goodness. It was love. We decided we never wanted anything else, ever! Fenway is the best dog. At 5 months old she is starting agility sequencing, knows a million tricks,and has the best personality of any dog I've ever known. She is amazing with kids.
Then we heard of some Boston mix pups that needed a home. Along came Frankie. He's a boston/pug mix. I don't call him a bugg because he's a mistake, not a designer dog.But he's a doll and we adore him.
And call us crazy but just yesterday we rescued an 19 month old male Boston. Dyson is a BIG Boston. Adorable though. And just as goofy as the rest. His family could not have him anymore and he needed a new address asap. We took him in as a foster but I would imagine he is staying.

Every Boston I've met is great with kids. They are adorable, smart, and hilarious. Just youtube some videos. ;)
We do have coats for our kids as they get cold, but they still love the outdoors. Great around the horses!

:D I can totally relate ... I just added BT n°3, couldn't resist keeping an adorable female from my first litter, boston terriers are totally addictive! And the fact that they are small dogs that act like big dogs is also one of the reasons I love my BTs so much! they play all the time with my bernese mt dogs, hurl themselves all over, and never get hurt!
a "couple" pics of my girls playing : smackdown coming up! (http://www.bellapix.com/STORAGE2/BELLAPIX/ALBUMS/USER43/USER433e/USER433ec51243c09/images/DSC02447.jpg) and testing a new karate move (http://www.bellapix.com/STORAGE2/BELLAPIX/ALBUMS/USER43/USER433e/USER433ec51243c09/images/DSC01530.jpg)


and just a cute pic (http://www.bellapix.com/STORAGE2/BELLAPIX/ALBUMS/USER43/USER433e/USER433ec51243c09/images/DSC03690_.jpg) of one of my girls, she knows how to get comfortable!

[AlfalfaGirl]

I grew up in the house with a little silver toy French Poodle. She was an excellent dog...smart, sweet as could be and good as gold. She went everywhere with us. Poodles are extremely smart - they were originally hunting dogs so they are really not foo foo dogs! Mom got one later when my son was a baby and had her for 15 years. Scarlett was a doll too. Terrific with all of the grandkids and tolerant as the day was long.

My dad was a hunter and so we had beagles and at times coon hounds of several breeds. Beagles are terrific little dogs...I love them. They are always eager to play with a child, were never snappy or cranky. We had a whole pack of beagles that I worked with and ran in field trials. All of the kids in the neighborhood played with them.

My kids grew up with a fabulous German Shepherd. We had to put Betsy down early this year at nearly 14 years of age. She was the smartest dog I have ever seen. When my daughter was little it was like Betsey KNEW she was a not to be played rough with and she was so gentle playing with Morgan. She played rough and tumble with my son, pulling him down by his pants when they'd run across the yard. She was tolerant of pulled ears, pulled tail, etc. When she had a little of pups the kids could play with them from day one. Yet she was fiercely protective of them...and could be scary looking to people who didn't know she was a lamb. Betsy was better behaved than my kids! She is missed.

I think a big standard poodle would be great for kids and good at a barn too.

[Czar]

Actually, I have done a ton of research on Bull Terriers, because I really, really wanted one and they seem to be bad with kids and cats,

Really? I've always read they are great family dogs - not necessarily great with other small animals but could be if socialized properly (although that phrase "socialized properly" means very little to me right now since our JRT was and still is not keen on kids and sometimes not even other dogs).

Love the BT videos but I have to say, my dog would play like that as well. When he's playing with kids; he's great. It's when they want to get down to his level and pet him or kiss his face...hasn't really been a problem up til now b/c we haven't had kids in the house so when we're around kids; I just say "Don't go near his face" but with a child in the house and already down at his level at that...like I said, I would not allow my child to maul a dog but I also want him to be able to pet him nicely without fearing the dog will turn around and snap.

I actually quite like Beagles - and they seem to be good farm dogs.

[llsc]

Beagles are tough. They are bred to just follow their nose and bark. We have three neighbors with Beagles and they are constantly driving by our place asking if we've seen them after they follow a scent into the woods and the barking they do is terrible. They do seem to be wonderful with the kids though, as they are always showing up unannounced and play willingly with my kids.

I've had JRTs 3 times in my life and all were tough. 2, like yours didn't like kids, but I didn't have any, so it didn't matter and the other one would run off causing trouble at the drop of a hat, so had to be carefully managed. My mom had one that was the biggest pain in the world, but like yours, he adored her and never left her side. He recently died of old age and she just said the other day that she didn't realize what a pain he was, now that he's gone her life is so much easier.

Good luck with your dog search, but remember that there are variations in every breed and that even with a breed that is supposed to be good with kids you may get a pup who doesn't like them. You will probably be best off finding a puppy that is a bit older, and that has been evaluated by someone very knowledgeable as to dog personalities. Not just someone who wants to sell a puppy, because selling dogs is their business.

[witherbee]

I was looking into getting a French Bulldog, but everything I've read about them says that they can be tough in dealing with other dogs, and a lot of them aren't kid-friendly. They are so darned cute though! I am not a big boxer fan - don't really like the look and the ones I've been around are too hyper for my taste.

I have 2 rescues - one is a purebred Chesapeake Bay Retriever. We know the breeder and he found out that this dog ended up at the pound after a nasty divorce, so rescued her and gave her to us. She was a year old when we got her, and she is a great dog. She is a good guard dog and is super about not wandering. She's great with the horses, but can be a bit underfoot (I'm always saying "look out Maggie" and she gets out of the way). She's a great hunter in the barn etc, but is also great in the house with my 5 housecats (one of which is a declawed "Babykiller" like the other posters mentioned - he was dumped at a farm here in town and my husband brought him home when he realized he was declawed and was getting beat up). She's great with other dogs and super with kids. I did have to work with her when we didn't live on a farm - she got a bit too territorial in our yard, and I didn't want her to bite anyone stupid enough to come in the yard. Since we got our 10 acre farm, she's been PERFECT - she just needed more room and a job.

We also have a hound/black lab mix and so do our best friends (they liked ours so much that they adopted one just like her). They are great with kids, but my girl is a bit more sensative than hers, and they do wander (we both have the Dogwatch Hidden Fence, so not a problem for us).

I had a rough collie that was a year old rescue, and she was the BEST with kids. SHe was good with the horses too, but a little slow to get out of the way. She did not have too strong of a herding instinct, but would wander. Loved that dog and she took my breath away with how beautifull and just sweet and kind she was. She did step in front of me when a chow mix tried to attack me one night - surprised the heck out of me, but she took that big tough dog down.

I would say no to having a Blue Heeler - they are really fanatical about herding and are true working dogs. They can be tough and really need a knowledgeable owner and to have a job. I've heard the same things about Ausralian Cattle Dogs and I find Border Collies to be too manic. Love them all to meet and watch, but could not manage them day to day myself - too high maintenance.

I'd agree that Corgis in general would do best with older children - they are too sensative and needy imo.

Rough Collie, Delilah: http://s74.photobucket.com/albums/i245/wtryan/Memorial%20page/?action=view&current=001.jpg

Pembroke Welsh Corgi, Sasha "talking": http://s74.photobucket.com/albums/i245/wtryan/Our%20Pets/?action=view&current=010-1.flv

Chesapeake Bay Retriever, Maggie: http://s74.photobucket.com/albums/i245/wtryan/Our%20Pets/?action=view&current=SashaMaggiegardening.jpg

Hound/Black Lab, Shadow: http://s74.photobucket.com/albums/i245/wtryan/Our%20Pets/?action=view&current=053.jpg She was 3 when we got her and is 5 now - even though she looks like an old lady with her gray muzzle lol!



Babykiller, Sylvester: http://s74.photobucket.com/albums/i245/wtryan/Our%20Pets/?action=view&current=089.jpg

[Casey09]

Czar wrote Really? I've always read they are great family dogs - not necessarily great with other small animals but could be if socialized properly (although that phrase "socialized properly" means very little to me right now since our JRT was and still is not keen on kids and sometimes not even other dogs).

If you find that you like a particular breed, you might try just calling the breed rescue for that breed and seeing if someone will talk to you. I have found them to be very, very helpful while researching breeds. I think that they are typically very knowledgeable and informative about some of the typical behaviors of a particular breed. They're also very honest. I know of a lot of breeds with rescue groups that don't typically recommend them with young kids just because in their experience, for various reasons, it often doesn't work out. So, if you see something you like, it would probably be worth looking up the breed club online and giving the rescue person a call.