Am I slowly KILLING my horse with beet pulp??????

[manyspots]

Let me preface this by saying the person who told me this DOES NOT agree with feeding beet pulp for any reason and doesn't understand why I would feed my alfalfa, soy, corn, and molasses sensitive gelding plain soaked beet instead.

She told me today to be careful when feeding my horse beet pulp mashes AND wet hay (his buddy is heavey so they both get damp hay now) because he will stop properly absorbing water in his gut and colic severely.

I know I did read something somewhere about beet pulp pulling water into or out of the gut, but cannot remember what the reference was.

So am I a bad mommy or is this a biased statement? For the record, my guy gets sufficiently soaked beet pulp pellets (plain) one pound morning and one pound night along with rice bran and SOME wet hay. Not all of it is wet, for instance the stuff in his stall is dry because he is not the one with the issue.

[Appassionato]

Good grief people are crazy. ;)

Beet pulp is a fine food for your feeding purposes. Some horses stop drinking as much water when they get soaked or even soupy mashes, but their water intake is usually about the same if you calculate how much water they get as a total.

And I wouldn't stop the wet hay either. Plenty of people soak their hay for their metabolic horses and they haven't colicked because of it. Nor did they colic because of the soaked beep.

Good luck to your ponies, and I'm sure their fine. The only thing I would investigate because I'm just-that-way is a good multivitiman/mineral to add. That would be it. :winkgrin:

[sweetpea]

I have fed beetpulp for many years and have not had any issues except a satsified horse.

You know your horse and it sounds like you are careful and need to be .

If they become too much on the subject, then ask them if you can borrow a shovel !

[manyspots]

THANK YOU!

I do also feed a mulitvitamin, forgot to mention. Trust me, I have spent months working out this poor horse's diet only to hear this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I also figured the hay wasn't an issue to because of metobolic issues. Hell, he may even get quieter ;).

[JB]

Water is pulled into the gut to help the flow of "things", which is mostly fiber, through, in simple terms. Impaction colics occur, in part, when there isn't enough water to help get all that fiber through.

If what goes in is already wet, there is little need for more water to be pulled in. It does not change how a horse does or doesn't absorb water ;)

[rainechyldes]

Sounds like said person has no clue about feeding, or about beetpulp.
Smile politely, move. on. It's easier that debating it.

[draftgirl01]

If you read some of the endurance rider sites alot of them feed beet pulp, especially before rides, it helps with hydration for them.

We have feed beet pulp for years with very good results and lots of our vets recommend it for our horses. Mine is also on beet pulp only because she tyed up badly so I pulled her off of all grain.

[manyspots]

I was appalled at the lecture I was getting!!!!

Beet is a fantastic food for many reasons. I had a rehab years ago that could not get hay due to a broken tail... he processed and passed straight soaked beet better than hay and was able to come back from that injury on that diet.

WTF are people thinking sometimes?

Clearly I must have wanted to do something on purpose to hurt my horse. :no:

[ChocoMare]

My response to those "OMG you shouldn't ever feed XYZ!" when I know it's a good thing is Really? Hmmm, perhaps you could show me the empirical data supporting your claim? Since I know that no such thing exists, it leaves them speechless and I return to my bucket of soaked plain beet pulp to mix in the other goodies to feed to the mares :D

[Grataan]

hahahahahahaaaa.

I'm sorry lol

not laughing at you, laughing at her.

I have a mare that just doesn't drink much water, so she gets extra soupy beet pulp and wet hay. She's been getting this since she was a yearling, she's 18 or 19 now.

Check out this link from Dr. Evans-Garlinghouse for "proof" for your friend. Emphasis and snips are mine
Although lower in fiber than
most hays, beet pulp can be used to replace up to 50% of the forage portion of the ration-a
feeding strategy which can significantly increase total calories without increasing the risk of
colic or founder.

... Research conducted at several universities have fed dry beet pulp in amounts up to
45% of the total diet and saw no instances of choke or other adverse reactions.
...
Concerns about beet pulp "pulling water from the blood and into the stomach and causing
dehydration" are also unfounded. Regardless of the type of feed, horses will generally drink
approximately 3 to 4 liters of water for every kilogram of dry matter consumed (dry matter is
what's left over in a feed after its own moisture content is disallowed). Assuming free access to
clean, fresh water, horses will voluntarily consume enough water to adequately process any
amount of beet pulp consumed.

http://allcreaturesanimalhealth.com/Documents/The%20Myths%20and%20Reality%20of%20Beet%20Pulp.pdf

[Go Fish]

Geez..where do people come up with this stuff? Like my mother telling me if I stuck out my tongue, it would get stuck that way.

[manyspots]

Same person told me today I should never feed a horse prone to tying up beet pulp. Even the plain beet pulp is deadly.

As another poster said, smile politely and move on. :lol:

Her suggestion was get him back on grain. Oh, and the oil. That's deadly too. :yes: LOL.

[ChocoMare]

Same person told me today I should never feed a horse prone to tying up beet pulp. Even the plain beet pulp is deadly.

As another poster said, smile politely and move on. :lol:

Her suggestion was get him back on grain. Oh, and the oil. That's deadly too. :yes: LOL.

Oy vey!! :rolleyes:

Geez, she'd die then if she saw my mare's buckets: I've got BOTH evil items! Shock horror! :winkgrin: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[pintopiaffe]

Last year I did not have running water on the farm for 3 months.

In the beginning, I quit the beep because I couldn't soak it. Then I realized I had hot water at one of the places I was hauling water from, so soaked it on the way home and fed.

What I discovered in my entirely non-scientific experiement, was the horses drank just about exactly LESS the amount of straight water as the amount of water added to the beep.

IE--before beep they were drinking 5 muckbuckets full of water daily. Once I started adding the beep, at approx 3 gals water per 5 gallon bucket, their water consumption went down by almost half--which is just about right.

Days for some reason I couldn't get the hot water for the beep--they drank more.

So, it did not appear to 'increase' hydration AT ALL. What it might do is GET hydration into a horse who otherwise might not be inclined to drink. But it didn't get any MORE into them in addition to plain water.

I was terribly dissapointed in The Horse's last online newsletter, which mentioned something about pulling water from the gut. That's a wives tale up there with Baucher bits having poll pressure. :dead: You soak to avoid choke. Or, as said above--a horse that isn't drinking, you might get SOME fluid into them.

For those of us with beep pellets, soaking is a must. I lost a beautiful young yearling to complications from choke. If you've got the shreds, you can feed it dry, mix it with stuff, add oil, water, whatever.

[Ghazzu]

It may not increase overall water consumption, but it won't pull fluid from the plasma the way pellets/grains do.

There's a definite relationship between dry matter intake and water consumption.

Factoid: a 500 kg horse secretes over 100 liters/day of fluids into the foregut. (Much of it is reabsorbed further along the alimentary canal.)

When grain/pellets are fed as meals, there is a transient drop in plasma volume, as the bolus of food stimulates increased GI secretions.

Slower eaters are affected less.


I have observed the same effect on free water consumption in my older mare who eats both soaked hay and soaked beet pulp. She barely touches her water bucket.

Nonetheless, her urine output is fine, and her hydration status is, as well.

[Leather]

She told me today to be careful when feeding my horse beet pulp mashes AND wet hay (his buddy is heavey so they both get damp hay now) because he will stop properly absorbing water in his gut and colic severely.


I'm sure this same person has no problem with their horse eating grass, which is about 85% water...

[SuperEventer]

My event horse had colic surgery at New Bolton last fall in the middle of his first one star..... He had a displacement caused by dehydration. Lovely. He's not a huge drinker.

New Bolton's recommendations:
1. Soaked Beet Pulp
2. Soaked Grain
3. Soaked Hay
4. As much fresh grass as he can get
5. Electrolytes in feed

He's been doing great so far!! :)

[manyspots]

I was amazed that she has now slammed me for feeding beet pulp TWICE!!!!!!!! Just google is for darn sake!

Thanks for the info on water consumption, especially compared to eating dry grain from Pintopiaffe. My guys are the same... with my gelding he gets about 16 QTs of water (so, 4 gallons?) with his beet pulp PLUS what he drinks from his heated tub. In total, about 15 gallons a day. Nothing wrong with that. And that is in the winter!

[Tiki]

To your friend - bull puckey!!!!!

[manyspots]

To your friend - bull puckey!!!!!

Awesome.... :lol:

[jvanrens]

Rats! So that's why Charlie only lived to 35 YO, it was the darned beetpulp. ;) Some people are just clueless.

[equineartworks]

lol!

My guys all love their soupy beep in the winter. Their winter coats gleem and they are bright eyed and happy. Must be I am killing mine too. :winkgrin:

[LaraNSpeedy]

In CA for some reason when I fed beet pulp - I did not see big results. But then most of my horses were in good weight and the hay I got was really high quality - rich. Here in TN, during the winter, my hay is sort of blah grass hay which is actually good for a horse we have that has liver problems and a small pony.... but not the TBs. And the alfalfa hay around here is hard to come by and more expensive than alfalfa was in CA. So I get alfalfa cubes.

Anyways - so a vet mentioned he liked the nutrition in the beet pulp but yet it is 6% protein which is GOOD for the horse with liver problems. SO I started to feed it when we got all this nasty cold snowy weather - filled the buckets up with HOT water and let the pulp swell way up.

How fun for the horses to eat the warm mash - clearly happy - and they have all seriously gained weight. The ones I do not want to - I have to give them little.

I understand you have to be very careful not to mess up the P Ca ratio - so not to feed more than 2 lbs of it a day. But it is SO LIGHT - before I swell it with water - I cant imagine feeding more than that a day.

What can I give them to offset the ratio?

[pj]

I was appalled at the lecture I was getting!!!!

Beet is a fantastic food for many reasons. I had a rehab years ago that could not get hay due to a broken tail... he processed and passed straight soaked beet better than hay and was able to come back from that injury on that diet.

WTF are people thinking sometimes?

Clearly I must have wanted to do something on purpose to hurt my horse. :no:
Have to ask.
A horse with a broken tail can't have hay??
Please explain.

[pj]

Geez..where do people come up with this stuff? Like my mother telling me if I stuck out my tongue, it would get stuck that way.

Well I don't know about the tongue but it's a "proven" fact that if you cross your eyes they may well stick that way and you'll forever and ever be cross eyed!
:D

[manyspots]

pj-13 years ago I had a rehab on my hands with a broken tail and partial paralysis of his rectum due to extreme swelling. Once he was he was able to regain use, the vet wanted to go slow on getting him back on a long stem fiber like hay so we used beet pulp to take care of his fiber intake. It also allowed us to feed oil to keep him well lubed :D!

[pj]

pj-13 years ago I had a rehab on my hands with a broken tail and partial paralysis of his rectum due to extreme swelling. Once he was he was able to regain use, the vet wanted to go slow on getting him back on a long stem fiber like hay so we used beet pulp to take care of his fiber intake. It also allowed us to feed oil to keep him well lubed :D!

Aww I see. Probably the paralysis of the rectum was the reason for the no hay rule. That makes sense. Thanks.

[AnotherRound]

OP - tell her just not to talk to you about it at all unless she can find three qualified studies which say beet pulp (Hey, Pintopiaffe - you did mean BEET and not BEEP, didn't you? LOL?) is bad for the horse, or can cause colic, or whatever it is she tries to tell you. If she says, well, YOU show ME studies where it says its good, say no, I don't have to, I'm not trying to get you to feed it to your horses. I'm feeding it to MY horses on the advice of my vet, and I don't want to discuss your mis informed ideas any more. Unless you can bring me three peer reviewed studis which support your claim, I don't want to hear it again, ok?

That oughta keep her busy for a while. AND, she'll start reading about beet pulp. Both good ideas.

[manyspots]

That oughta keep her busy for a while. AND, she'll start reading about beet pulp. Both good ideas.

Yup! Funny too, cause every scientific study I have found on PSSM/EPSM and tying-up syndrome in general say BEET PULP!

[sublimequine]

OP - tell her just not to talk to you about it at all unless she can find three qualified studies which say beet pulp (Hey, Pintopiaffe - you did mean BEET and not BEEP, didn't you? LOL?) is bad for the horse, or can cause colic, or whatever it is she tries to tell you. If she says, well, YOU show ME studies where it says its good, say no, I don't have to, I'm not trying to get you to feed it to your horses. I'm feeding it to MY horses on the advice of my vet, and I don't want to discuss your mis informed ideas any more. Unless you can bring me three peer reviewed studis which support your claim, I don't want to hear it again, ok?

That oughta keep her busy for a while. AND, she'll start reading about beet pulp. Both good ideas.

I've heard some people say "beep" as a shortened term for "beet pulp". ;)

[sublimequine]

As for the OP, I've known for a long, long time that beet pulp is worst, most dangerous feedstuff ever in the world, and that no horse should ever be expected to eat it.

At least.. that's what my mare says.. there's no other reason she prefers grain over beet pulp... right?! :uhoh: :lol: :lol:

[elysian*fields*farm]

manyspots-- If it were not for beet pulp, my horse would have starved. I have a Peruvian Paso gelding whose dam, upon necropsy, was diagnosed with DSLD (Degenerative Suspensory Ligament Desease) -- which is now being called by another name. This is a very complicated (to me) syndrome, disease, or condition that involves what is now considered a metabolic disorder.

Anyway, my gelding began showing symptoms of the same condition as a four year old -- unexplained swellings, lameness, false colic, etc.-- I think you can get the idea. There is a group on the internet that was formed to help people whose horses have this condition, and one of the vets doing research on it made up a diet that she believed could help (and it DOES.) This is a low carb, no sugar diet-- as in no whole grains and no molasses ever! Even grasses with high sugar content are to be avoided!

Anyway, most of the low carb, no sugar added commercial feeds are not available down here. The solution-- beet pulp! I rinse and soak it because I can't get the kind that doesn't have molasses added. I rinse and soak until the beet pulp rinse water runs clear. In addition to the beet pulp, I add a Chinese herb she recommends that is called jaoloiqun (SP) people on the list call it J-Herb. She also recommends AAKG for horses that tolerate that, but my horse does better without it. I have never fed it dry, however, becaue I have to go through the multiple rinsing to get rid of the molasses.

Jacques will be nine this Sept. Though he is now totally pasture sound-- runs and plays-- I do not ride or drive him. Before beet pulp diet, he had a couple of severe flair-ups where he would lie down for about 20 hours a day-- and he would struggle and stagger stiff-legged upon rising. Now he even rolls, and gets up easily. He, however, never "shakes" or twitches his skin when getting up, like the other horses do. He is still "down in the pasterns" and coon footed in front (most obvious symptoms of this syndrome) but he is comfortable and pasture sound.

So, bottom line, I think beet pulp is a good feed for horses-- at least for my horse, it is probably a life saver.

[AnotherRound]

Sublime and PPiaffe - I never knew that (some people call beet pulp "beep" for short). Sorry I teased you! :D

[equineartworks]

I call it beep too :lol: