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hookedoneventing
Aug. 31, 2009, 11:55 AM
Just to let everyone know, there is a trial going on in the genetics lab at Cornell looking for volunteers. They need horses/ponies for measurements. Here is the information:

"Thank you so much for your interest in participating in our study! We couldn't do this research without help from owners like yourself. Let me introduce myself--my name is Esther Gu, and I am an undergraduate doing this research in the Sutter and Brooks labs here at Cornell. Your horse(s) would make a wonderful contribution to our research. As
Cassy mentioned earlier, participation involves taking 35 body measurements, ranging from ear length to the circumference of the hind cannon. We record all measurements in inches. With an assistant, measurements can be done on a willing horse in about 15 minutes. we don't encourage measuring unwilling horses!

If you are willing to participate, I would be more than happy to send you the materials you will need to do the measurements yourself. We will mail you a packet that includes a consent form to sign, instructions and data sheets for collecting the measurements, a tape measure, and a sheet to tape tail hairs to (which we collect for DNA). We also ask for a
3-generation pedigree and pictures of the head and body.

All we need from you is your mailing address and the number of kits we should send (i.e. the number of horses you are willing to measure). We do require that the horses/ponies be at least 4 years old or full grown. We recognize that different breeds mature at different times, so we use 4 years as a general rule of thumb. If they are full-grown, we would be
happy to include them in our study.

Additionally, if you know anyone else who may be interested in our study, we would deeply appreciate your referring them to us--we are looking for horses of every shape and size!

Thank you again for your assistance. If you have any questions or concerns, please email us at sutterlab@cornell.edu or call the lab at (607) 253-3592."

More information about the trial can be found here: http://www.aaep.org/equinesize_study.htm

deltawave
Aug. 31, 2009, 01:26 PM
I'm game--wonder if just names only are OK for the pedigree or do they need copies of papers?

hookedoneventing
Aug. 31, 2009, 02:26 PM
You know I am not too sure, she hasn't specified, my kits are in the mail to me. I am sure it will be spelled out in the directions.

Ajierene
Aug. 31, 2009, 02:40 PM
we don't encourage measuring unwilling horses!


Does this mean my horses need to sign a consent form also? It always takes her FOREVER to read and sign anything!

hookedoneventing
Aug. 31, 2009, 02:49 PM
Tell me about it!!! I think mine will protest measuring his ear length YICKES!!! No one goes near the ears!!

Boomer
Aug. 31, 2009, 08:57 PM
I sent everything in about a week ago. I emailed pics and pedigrees in an excel spreadsheet. I didn't send copies of the actual papers.

Only thing I dislike about participating is that you don't even get a copy of the results of the study. I don't need a "that is my horse" thing from it, I'm just curious what the finding are, if any.

But I've got a couple vet friends.. maybe they will be able to get a copy of the study if any are published/lectured on.

Bluey
Aug. 31, 2009, 09:37 PM
Four years old is a mature horse?
Since when?
If they can't even use proper parameters, well, how good can the study be?

I can guarantee that there will be plenty of horses that are by far not mature at four, at all.
We had horses grow 3" at five in height alone, as measuring their leg proportions told us they would.

deltawave
Aug. 31, 2009, 09:49 PM
It clearly states that four years is a rule of thumb, and asks participants to only enroll horses that are full grown. So if you have a still-growing 5yo, they'd probably prefer you didn't participate.

We do require that the horses/ponies be at least 4 years old or full grown. We recognize that different breeds mature at different times, so we use 4 years as a general rule of thumb. If they are full-grown, we would be happy to include them in our study.

If the study is published in a recognized journal, it will be available in reprints to anyone who requests a copy.

appychik
Aug. 31, 2009, 10:08 PM
I sent mine in probably about a month ago... saw the previous thread on this and got two kits in the mail. Took about 1 hour to do both horses, and I still think I somehow skewed my own horses' results. How can a 15h Andy/Appy be taller in the butt then an honest 16h Appy? The answer, he can't be. But I couldn't get the measurements right. Oh well.

Merle
Aug. 31, 2009, 11:01 PM
I'm a vet student at Cornell and we've had some very interesting lectures from Dr. Sutter. He published some data on dogs using these same sort of measurements. Now to dig up that article and refresh my memory on what he found out. :D He's a really nice guy and does some neat stuff!

mvp
Sep. 1, 2009, 12:05 AM
As I understand it, they aren't doing a "trial" so much as trying to resolve genotype with phenotype for horses.

Don't get all amped up about forthcoming results. Any appreciably exciting ones (like "the gene" for a great hind end) could take a long, long time.

SmartAlex
Sep. 1, 2009, 09:12 AM
I did three of my Saddlebreds last month. It was my rainy day project (plenty of those in the soggy NE :sadsmile:). They send a nice packet with clear instructions and a tape. It didn't take that long. I sent in pdfs of the pedigree of the breed database, not copies of the papers. You have to pull some hair for the DNA. Within a week or so I got a nice hand written thank you note.

It was really interesting to see how the measurements on my three horses compared and supported my theories about their performance strengths and weaknesses. I even keyed the results into a spreadsheet so I could sort of study them myself.

One thing as a tip for those of you who are going to do it, and I think they should have made this suggestion in the intructions to get more accurate readings... try putting some masking tape or something to mark your measurement points so you don't overlap. I was able to scratch a mark in the haircoat to mark my place, but afterwards I thought... duh, tape would have been so much more accurate!

mvp
Sep. 1, 2009, 05:54 PM
I watched members of their field team measure several horses and they are quite quick. I don't know how precise these measurements ought to be in order to produce reliable data. In most cases, they are measuring morphological features that are matters of varying proportion (as opposed to present or absent). So accuracy matters, in theory, but I'm sure they developed their protocol with an eye to keeping the numbers precise enough to give reliable data. At home, I'd certainly follow their instructions to the letter.

Sugarbrook
Sep. 1, 2009, 09:33 PM
I just received my kits. I am doing 10 to start out with. Will start tomorrow.