choking on feed

[chelsealaurenmurphy]

my horse has been choking on his feed ever since i switched to seminole senior wellness. it is still a "textured" feed like his previous feed, it just has less starch which is better for him. i'm not sure if he just loves the taste, and decides to scarf it down or what, but it's scary. first he starts making a weird noise in his throat (sounds like how one would sound when they have a knot in their throat), then he flehmens a couple times while making another weird noise (sounds like sucking in wind), then finally he spits up a mixture of saliva and feed...(sounds the way a human would sound when throwing up). today when he was doing it, i felt a lump in his neck. the lump was completely gone after the episode which leads me to believe that was the feed he was choking on. is there anything i can do to make him stop this? it has happened almost everyday for the past week and it usually lasts for about 5 minutes. but those are the longest five minutes ever. after it happens, he goes right back to eating normally and seems completely unfazed.

[Laurierace]

You need to soak the feed so its less likely to make him choke. I would do a few days of banamine as well because each episode creates more inflamation making it even easier to choke again.

[chelsealaurenmurphy]

alright. will i have to soak it forever? or just for the next few weeks or what? because he has never done this until he got this new feed. and what is banamine?

[Laurierace]

You need to talk with your vet asap, he will explain what banamine is and how it is used in this instance. Yes, I would soak forever.

[jaimebaker]

Once they choke they are more prone to choke. And they can die from it. I've had two horses choke (one horse on a handful of oats, the other on hay). Every single one of my horses will get soaked feed for the rest of their lives because it scared me so bad.

Banamine is an anti-inflammatory you can get at the vets. Recommended after a horse chokes to get inflammation down.

It sounds like you are acting very casually about it, but choke is very, very serious. Start soaking his feed before something bad happens.

[chelsealaurenmurphy]

wow. well, it scared the crap out of me the first time it happened. but i've seen it for the past week, so i guess the shock has lost it's edge. why is it that once they choke, they are more prone to choke again? i tried soaking his feed once this week, and he still choked on it. how much water should i use? he gets three quarts of feed per feeding (turns out to be 4.8 lbs). i'm pretty sure i'm going to call the vet now and see what else i can do to prevent it from happening again. do you think he should switch back to his old feed (gradually, of course) because he never had this problem with it.

[ptownevt]

I have a mare that is prone to choke. She is off the track and has a narrowing of her esophagus where it enters her stomach. Possibly damage from being tubed for something else or something she was born with. The best thing I know of to do is wet the grain so it is kind of sloppy. Putting half a small salt block will slow them down, too. Unfortunately, my mare HATES her feed wet. She will pick up her tub and throw it if the feed is wet. So instead of wetting her feed, I feed her hay first, then grain a bit later so she isn't so famished for her grain. I also make sure that she always has water. One of the times she choked someone else put her in after leaving her out all day with no water and then grained her before filling her water bucket. Duh! I'm surprised she was the only one that choked that night.

Yes, choke is something you need to take seriously, but don't panic. When my mare chokes, the vet has me wait about an hour to see if she can clear it on her own. I've only had to have her tubed to clear the choke twice is three years. Horses can breath when they are choking, so while they may be uncomfortable, they will be okay. The most significant risk of choke is that they can aspirate food into their lungs and get aspiration pneumonia. That is very, very serious. Both times my mare had to be tubed, we put her on antibiotics as a precaution against pneumonia.

About the banamine. My understanding is that it is a smooth muscle relaxant that helps the throat to relax and open up a bit.

I know that "they" insist that you can feed beet pulp dry, but don't ever, ever do it with a horse prone to choke. My vet says that almost every choke he's ever cleared involved beet pulp.

Pam

[jaimebaker]

They are prone to choke because every time they choke it's inflaming the throat and scarring it. You need to soak the feed until it's mush, however long that takes. Hot water will mush it up faster generally. I'm not familiar with the feed you are using but it needs to be either really soft, or really sloppy (extra water in it). If he's choking on it soaked, then he's got some inflammation from the initial choke and it's going to keep happening. You need to get banamine in him ASAP.

Also, when was the last time his teeth were done? That can also cause them not to chew properly and choke. I'd be soaking his feed to mush and putting large, smooth rocks in his feed bucket to keep him from bolting his food.

[ptownevt]

Is the new feed beet pulp based? Some feeds have shredded beet pulp as a base. That could be causing his problem. How is his weight and general condition? What were you feeding him before? Did you switch because he wasn't doing well? Those are questions to answer before you switch back.
Pam

[jaimebaker]

About the banamine. My understanding is that it is a smooth muscle relaxant that helps the throat to relax and open up a bit.



From what I've heard, it's anti-spasmodic, so yes, similar to a muscle relaxant (why it's given for colics).

[chelsealaurenmurphy]

thank you guys, that was very helpful.

i feel absolutely horrible for not taking this more seriously. and we don't have hot water at the barn i board at, so i'm thinking i will just have to set aside more time for the colder water to make his feed mushy. i'm going to ask my vet about the banamine because the fact that he has inflammation (from still chokign on soaked feed) has me very freaked out right now.

also, i don't know when his teeth were last floated. you already know, jamie, about him being malnourished for the past two years from my other post about his hooves, but yeah, i got him from a home that wasn't the best. i didn't even get his registration when i got him. the girl originally said it was lost, along with his racing papers. then after asking her persistently for 2 months about finding it and she told me the owner before her never gave her his registration when she bought him.. she didn't even have an UTD coggins on him. his last coggins was from when he was with the owner before her. needless to say, i've kept all of his vet records since he's been with me, but i don't think he recieved any vet care while he was there.

[Buffyblue]

My BO soaks everyone's feed. She had one horse choke once and has been adding water to all the feed since then. None of the horses seem to mind it.

[chelsealaurenmurphy]

Is the new feed beet pulp based? Some feeds have shredded beet pulp as a base. That could be causing his problem. How is his weight and general condition? What were you feeding him before? Did you switch because he wasn't doing well? Those are questions to answer before you switch back.
Pam

it has beet pulp in it, yes. here it is: http://seminolefeed.com/WellnessWebsite/ProductSheetsforWeb/WellnessSeniorMix.htm

his old feed was:
http://seminolefeed.com/ProductSheetsforWeb/BRHE.htm


as for his overall condition, he still needs some more weight and he has no topline :( when i got him at the end of june, he was a little over 1000 lbs at 16.2hh. now he is about 1085 (est by weight tape). i have a before and after picture of his hind end. i'll show you guys. he did put on weight fine with his other feed. i just didn't like how high the starch was and it didn't have the beet pulp, omegas, or yucca that his current feed does.

here is a picture from today:
http://i28.tinypic.com/258xhma.jpg

and here is his hind. the 1st picture was from the middle of june. 2nd and 3rd are from the middle of august:
http://i26.tinypic.com/2a53z7.jpg

[jaimebaker]

I can understand not taking it seriously if his episodes are only about 5-10 minutes and you've never seen it happen before. My stallion choked on a handful of oats and went into a panic, running like a mad man around the pasture, food coming out of his nose, covered in sweat and that went on for an hour. All the vets told me if he was still choking in an hour to call them back since most would dislodge it. So for an hour I was terrified I was going to lose my horse. Was the scariest thing I'd ever seen. When my gelding choked on hay, he too went into a panic but skipped the sweating and food coming out of the nose. He would run out into the big pasture, turn around and start pawing the fence violently. Some horses remain somewhat calm during a choke, but many become terrified and are downright dangerous to be around. It's really, really scary:(

Don't beat yourself up too bad. Just try to get the situation resolved to keep him from having future chokes. Keep in mind, a horse can choke on grass, it doesn't have to be grain, pellets or beet pulp. We can't protect them from everything, but by golly, we can try our best with what we DO have control over.

[chelsealaurenmurphy]

leader actually acts very calm during the episodes. they have never lasted more than about 8 minutes, at the most. i'm always there when it happens, so i'll go sit or stand with him in his stall and rub his neck or his tummy until it's over with. that's all i really can do :/

so i'm thinking this is how it happened:
he got his new feed and it tasted so good (smells pretty nice too) that he scarfed it down and that caused the first choke. since he had the first one, it made him prone to have more. thats where these are coming from. i guess it doesn't help that feed is the one thing he gets excited over. i guess it's because he starved for so long. i'll put him in his stall and get his feed ready, then when i'm walking over to him to pour it in his feed bucket, he gets sooo excited and noisey. of course, i make him calm down and back up before he gets it. but he still does that every day.

[jaimebaker]

The beet pulp causes the feed to swell and get lodged in the throat. If he didn't have problems on the other feed, that's your answer right there (since I notice the old feed didn't have BP in it). Beet pulp doesn't take very long to soak in hot water, but when you are dealing with pellets and cold water it can take significantly longer (as in, hours). You need to take some of the feed home with you and do a test to see how long it takes to soak before it turns into mush. If you are in charge of feeding him, can you take the feed home and soak it in hot water before you go to the barn? I feed all of my horses beet pulp shreds and I live 5 miles from where they are. I bring a bucket of dry beet pulp home every day. The next morning I soak it in hot water and by the time I get there 20 minutes later, it's ready to serve. That's shreds though. I know straight Beet pulp pellets take a long time to soak. Since your feed has beet pulp in it, I don't know how much is beet pulp per pellet so not sure what soak time would be. Were it up to me, I'd get him off this feed and gradually put him on the old feed but I'd still soak the snot out of it even when he's back on the old feed. And yes, I'd do it forever too.

[chelsealaurenmurphy]

yes, i'm pretty certain i'm taking him off this feed. but i don't want to put him on his old feed. yes, he did fine with it. but not exceptional. he gained weight. but how can you not gain weight when you go from eating no grain and living off a 1 acre pasture made up entirely of weeds to 8 lbs of grain a day and 15 acres of fertilized pasture 24/7? i want a feed that has benefits. do you guys have any suggestions? i'm willing to finally separate from seminole, as long as his new feed is beneficial. i'm also willing to try pelleted because i've been told that it's much better for the horse. do you think he will have an easier time getting the pelleted down?

[jaimebaker]

No, no, no....pellets are lot harder to chew. BUT if you soak it you shouldn't have a problem. But pellets DEFINITELY need to be soaked on a horse that's choked. Regardless of feed type, soaking and all that business you really need to get his teeth looked at ASAP. If it has something to do with his teeth he'll have problems with grass and hay too.

I can't help you with the feed thing. All of my horses are fat as mud and get like 2 cups of soaked beet pulp shreds a day and supps. Other folks can definitely help you though.

[chelsealaurenmurphy]

haha, i wish leader was fat. he's getting there though.

i am definitely going to soak his food from now on. i'll just look at it like a supplement, not an inconvenience.

[jaimebaker]

haha, i wish leader was fat. he's getting there though.

i am definitely going to soak his food from now on. i'll just look at it like a supplement, not an inconvenience.

And a good way to get extra water in him too:) When I started soaking feed it was barely inconvenient. Every time I added water I just remember how scary it was to see him choke and it just wasn't inconvenient anymore. It does take a little adjustment for a horse to get used to soaked feed (sometimes, sometimes not) but they do get used to it.

[chelsealaurenmurphy]

haha, leader eats EVERYTHING so i don't think he will care too much :)
that's the cool thing about him, though. i never have to worry about him not liking a supplement. he never even cares when i de-worm him or give him electrolytes. my friend's horse will flat out run away from her when she see's the syrnige full of dewormer. leader just isn't fazed haha. he's my baby <3 i never thought we would have the bond we have, but we do and its incredible. i would be completely heartbroken if anything happened to him so it's totally worth the extra 15 minutes it will take to soak.

[KrazyTBMare]

My mare is the slowest eating horse on the planet. She chews well has great teeth etc.

But when I switched to the Wellness feed, she choked for the first time ever (she was 12 then). I have had her on other texterized and pelleted feeds before and it had never been a problem. The only way she could eat it is if I soaked it.

I have since switched to a pelleted ration balancer and whole oats and it has not been an issue since.

Back when the Wellness was Spillers, I was informed here on COTH that a LOT of people had issues with it causing their horses to choke. Even though the formula has changed some and it is now "wellness", it still caused choke.

Either soak it or switch to something else.

BTW to help build the topline, I would highly suggest Uckeles Tri Amino supplement. The horse needs proper protein and the amino acids to utalize the protein to build muscle. Your guy reminds me of my TB mare as far as topline goes.

[Hampton Bay]

huh, I never had any issues with choke when I fed it, but then I also fed it soaked with alfalfa cubes. Didn't hurt that the mare is a very slow and slobbery eater.

If I remember correctly, the beet pulp in the feed is in shreds, not pelleted? In that case, you can usually have it soaked in about 10 minutes unless its very cold outside. At least that's about how long it takes shreds or textured feed to soak for me.

You could also try taking a coffee pot to get hot water.

[goeslikestink]

beat pulp -- expands to 3 times the original size -- so if your not soaking it thats whats making him choke - and will block his system so make suer you soak your feed well and wait for a while before you feed it to make sure that the bp has fully expanded

beat pellets are different to shreds and must be soaked fo 24 hours

[chelsealaurenmurphy]

My mare is the slowest eating horse on the planet. She chews well has great teeth etc.

But when I switched to the Wellness feed, she choked for the first time ever (she was 12 then). I have had her on other texterized and pelleted feeds before and it had never been a problem. The only way she could eat it is if I soaked it.

I have since switched to a pelleted ration balancer and whole oats and it has not been an issue since.

Back when the Wellness was Spillers, I was informed here on COTH that a LOT of people had issues with it causing their horses to choke. Even though the formula has changed some and it is now "wellness", it still caused choke.

Either soak it or switch to something else.

BTW to help build the topline, I would highly suggest Uckeles Tri Amino supplement. The horse needs proper protein and the amino acids to utalize the protein to build muscle. Your guy reminds me of my TB mare as far as topline goes.


wow that's so crazy to hear that you had the same problem with it. i'm definitely switching him. i just don't know what to. i kind of want to consult an "expert" but do they REALLY put what the horse needs and the horse's well being before making money?

and i have heard great things about tri amino, and i've actually been looking for it. just havent found it yet :/

[chelsealaurenmurphy]

huh, I never had any issues with choke when I fed it, but then I also fed it soaked with alfalfa cubes. Didn't hurt that the mare is a very slow and slobbery eater.

If I remember correctly, the beet pulp in the feed is in shreds, not pelleted? In that case, you can usually have it soaked in about 10 minutes unless its very cold outside. At least that's about how long it takes shreds or textured feed to soak for me.

You could also try taking a coffee pot to get hot water.

a coffee pot, what a wonderful idea :D


also, now that i think about it, there are shreds in his feed. i don't know if they are the beet pulp, but they are like 1/2 inch long and very thin.

[chelsealaurenmurphy]

so i soaked his feed today for 20 minutes and he didn't choke at all :)

[KrazyTBMare]

You can soak it with warmer water and it wont take as long to get where you need it.

The tri amino is on Uckele's site. Its only like $18 for 52 days worth.

[katarine]

You might also consider feeding him out of a wide, flat bowl or half-barrel. I have some 55 gal plastic barrels split long ways so one barrel makes two long, tippy, feedbowls. The feed spreads around and slows them down. Pi$$es my SSH filly off to no end, but it slows her WAY down. Plus they don't spill as much, the huge bowl catches it :)

My SSH filly chokes on pellets, but she's totally fine on Triple Crown Complete. My friend's gelding chokes on Triple Crown Senior, of all things.

I'd soak his feed regardless of the switching feeds, at least a good week or two. He needs to heal. He may NOT be tearing himself up with such mild epsiodes, but no need to risk it.

[Hampton Bay]

Those shreds are the beet pulp. The pellets are alfalfa/soy/vitamin/mineral pellets. At least that is what I remember of the feed. It's been about a year since the mare needed that many calories.

TC Senior is similar if I remember correctly. Beet pulp shreds with oats and pellets and powdered rice bran. Any feed like that can make them choke if fed dry.

[chizmom]

I had the same problem with the Seminole Wellness Senior feed in June. My horse choked twice in one week. On another board I read about several other horses in Florida choking on the Seminole feed. They talked about the fact that Seminole changed the size of the pellets, because they had purchased Buckeye and they could save money by having a uniform size pellet with Buckeye?:confused::confused:. I immediately changed feed. He hasn't choked again, but he had an awful summer. He quit sweating and has had a heavey cough all summer. He has been on steroids all summer and is much better, but when I decrease the steroids, the coughing comes back.We're still having high temps and high humidity which may be a factor. I'm very worried about my sweet old horse and soooooo disappointed with Seminole Feed. :no:

[jaimebaker]

I had the same problem with the Seminole Wellness Senior feed in June. My horse choked twice in one week. On another board I read about several other horses in Florida choking on the Seminole feed. They talked about the fact that Seminole changed the size of the pellets, because they had purchased Buckeye and they could save money by having a uniform size pellet with Buckeye?:confused::confused:. I immediately changed feed. He hasn't choked again, but he had an awful summer. He quit sweating and has had a heavey cough all summer. He has been on steroids all summer and is much better, but when I decrease the steroids, the coughing comes back.We're still having high temps and high humidity which may be a factor. I'm very worried about my sweet old horse and soooooo disappointed with Seminole Feed. :no:

OH my.:( Is there any sort of 'soaking' directions or a warning on this feed??? If not, then it might not hurt to call them and at least let them know horses are having problems with it. Sure, some horses might gobble it down just fine but I know if I was a manufacturer I'd want to know such information.

[chelsealaurenmurphy]

seriously! i think it's time to let seminole know the effect it's having on our horses. i'm considering switching to TC, just need to find a dealer in my area. sadly, i might have to start driving all the way to camden for feed (40 miles), as opposed to my current feed store which is ON the way to my barn lol

[ptownevt]

I've had great results with TC Senior. It is beet pulp based, but the beet pulp is shredded, so soaking is quick, 10 to 15 minutes. Senior feeds are supposed to be easier to digest, so are good for all horses. I have also had good results on thin TBs with Purina Ultium. It puts weight on and IME doesn't make them hot like something with more carbs would.

[Hampton Bay]

TC Senior and Seminole Wellness Senior are very very similar feeds. If you have choking issues on one of them, you will likely have the same issues with the other. You would still have to soak it.

[dressagejudy]

Here is what happened to my horse concerning choke. I bought a yearling that was on a ration balancer. Since that kind was difficult to obtain in my area, I changed him to another balancer and shortly after that he had a bad choke. Well, it was bad for me because I'd never seen a horse choke. He came through that fine. In his 2 year old year, he choked again and again there had been a feed change. (To another balancer. All these feeds were very similar and all were pellets) So I now feed him in one of those buckets that fits into a tire on the floor and I have 4 large rocks in the bottom. I also only feed him 1/2 pound (still a ration balancer), then feed the other horses, then feed the other 1/2 pound so there is very little feed in his bucket at one time. As a 3 year old he also choked on the hay I'd swept up after putting our winter supply in the barn. (Short little pieces that he could could get a huge mouthfull at a time.) I certainly don't do that anymore. :) Since that time I've had no further problems. So, he has either learned to chew his food, or I'm just managing it properly. I do not soak, except in the winter when I might add beet pulp for extra calories and to get more water into him. Hope my experiences help.
Judy

[chelsealaurenmurphy]

awh, that's got to be scary. i think i will just have to deal with soaking leader's food for a lonnng time. i've done it for the past few days and leader has been doing great with it. i'm definitely going to look for some large stones though, just not sure where to find them.

[Timex]

One of my tb mares has choked a couple of times. Both times incurring obscene vet bill, since invariably she would do it at dinner time, after the vet office's normal hours. Sigh. Anyway, she choked on a basic pellet, not one to bolt her feed, no teeth issues, once was in the stall, the other time she was eating out in the paddock. So I'm not sure what the real trigger was, and she hasn't done it in 2 years. So who knows? But I don't do anything special, don't soak her grain (although idid right after the fact) and knock on wood, have had no issues there. Good luck with your guy, sounds like you just need to find the right feed program, that will probably make a world of difference. A side note, have you tried giving him smaller meals, more often, rather than just am and pm?

[chelsealaurenmurphy]

no, i have tried the smaller meals. i probably should, it just doesn't mesh well with my work schedule :/