Jingles needed for our colt-latest update page 3-it IS EPM [Archive]

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foxhavenfarm

Aug. 30, 2009, 05:13 PM

We would like to ask for some big time jingles for our 2008 colt Glory's Legacy. Yesterday morning he started having neurologic signs, buckling his front legs and eating dirt until he finally went down. Then when we got him back up, it was like he was drugged.

We rushed him in to our vets office who watched him for a while and he would be fine one minute and the next minute out of it again. He was given a huge dose of Dex and we came home with him to see how he would be. He didn't get any worse last night. We suspected maybe plant poisoning as we watched him eating horsenettles. We then cleared the whole paddock of them. He ate his dinner last night and his breakfast this morning...

Today he is more out of it so we are now on the phone with UF and fearing a vaccine failure and the dreaded EEE. We'll probably be loading him up to drive down there soon.

tuckawayfarm

Aug. 30, 2009, 05:20 PM

Sending huge jingles for your colt!!!

Please keep us posted.

Quinn

Aug. 30, 2009, 05:21 PM

I am sending jingles, prayers and best wishes. I truly hope all turns around for your boy. He's in my prayers tonight!

http://community.webshots.com/user/ballyduff

Laurierace

Aug. 30, 2009, 05:23 PM

Oh no, jingling for a complete recovery.

classicsporthorses

Aug. 30, 2009, 05:34 PM

jingling from NY

maxxtrot

Aug. 30, 2009, 05:48 PM

oh geesh linnea, i hope all is ok and it is not EEE/WN. if you do come to town and need a hand give me a call, only 25 minutes from the horsepital

FLIPPED HER HALO

Aug. 30, 2009, 06:02 PM

Sending prayers and jingles from California! Please keep us posted.

Jessi P

Aug. 30, 2009, 06:04 PM

Sending boatloads of jingles for your boy and lots of hugs and virtual valium for you. ;)

unbridledoaks

Aug. 30, 2009, 06:08 PM

Sending lots of jingles your way.

rodawn

Aug. 30, 2009, 06:14 PM

Many Jingles your way. I hope the very best for you.

alliekat

Aug. 30, 2009, 06:23 PM

Sending lots of jingles for your boy.

Sugarbrook

Aug. 30, 2009, 06:25 PM

Jingles for your boy from Sugarbrook Farm and all the ponies. Please update us when you can.

TKR

Aug. 30, 2009, 06:32 PM

Jingles and prayers for your colt and hugs to you. Please let us know. Hoping for a good report!
PennyG

Home Again Farm

Aug. 30, 2009, 06:35 PM

Oh no!! Jingling like mad that it is not EE.

Molly Malone

Aug. 30, 2009, 06:45 PM

Wishing you both well and hoping for a happy update

Daydream Believer

Aug. 30, 2009, 06:57 PM

Sending mega jingles Linea!

EPM can present that fast too...don't discount that possibility.

3Dogs

Aug. 30, 2009, 06:58 PM

mega jingles from NC

flyinghorse

Aug. 30, 2009, 07:18 PM

My heart goes out to you!!! Mega-Jingles for his recovery!!!

ElegantExpressionsFarm

Aug. 30, 2009, 07:34 PM

Lots and LOTS of jingles coming your way for you and your colt!!

VirginiaBred

Aug. 30, 2009, 08:22 PM

Prayers and fingers crossed from Virginia.

clint

Aug. 30, 2009, 08:49 PM

Jingles and crossed fingers for a good outcome from California.

tisor

Aug. 30, 2009, 09:01 PM

jingles from SF

Aug. 30, 2009, 09:09 PM

Major jingles for your beautiful boy!!!

Zu Zu

Aug. 30, 2009, 09:50 PM

Jingles ~ Jingles ~ Jingles & AO ~ AO ~ AO ~ ALways Optinmistic !

genevieveg17

Aug. 30, 2009, 10:13 PM

Many more California jingles coming your way.

YankeeLawyer

Aug. 30, 2009, 10:15 PM

Many jingles from Virginia for a speedy and full recovery

foxhavenfarm

Aug. 30, 2009, 11:06 PM

I just got home from UF. He stayed up in the trailer the whole trip and was still up when I left which is a good sign. All his bloodwork is normal so no liver issues. They were getting ready to do a spinal tap on him when I left and should have some more information for us tonight....

Ok, just got off the phone with UF. His spinal tap did not look like EEE, which is a good sign. They have done the test for EPM, but the results will take several days to get back so depending on what he looks like in the morning, they may start him on Marquis. At the moment, he is eating and drinking normally and has not been down again since he arrived at the hospital.

I am off to try to get some rest now...it's been a long day.

Thank you all for the jingles and keep them up!

alliekat

Aug. 31, 2009, 06:38 AM

Glad to hear that. Still sending lots of jingles to your boy for a speedy recovery.

DownYonder

Aug. 31, 2009, 06:55 AM

Jingles for your boy. I hope you get GOOD news this AM.

Quinn

Aug. 31, 2009, 09:14 AM

That sounds like a pretty good update!!! Hopefully all will proceed in the right direction.

http://community.webshots.com/user/ballyduff

foxhavenfarm

Aug. 31, 2009, 09:21 AM

He is still with us and hasn't gotten any worse. He is still eating and drinking. He was down twice last night, but it was easy to get him up. They are starting him on Marquis this morning and if it is EPM he should start responding within 48 hours. This is the strangest case...everyone is scratching their heads. Has anyone else ever seen EPM come on like this?

Aug. 31, 2009, 09:25 AM

Just remember that if it is EPM, he may get worse before he gets better as the protozoa start to die off.

Daydream Believer

Aug. 31, 2009, 09:32 AM

Yes I have seen it come on suddenly like that. It hit my gelding suddenly about 2 weeks after his hocks were injected (for what the vet guessed was arthritis after doing flexions)...turned out he was in early stage EPM and the steriods caused a massive growth of the EPM by suppressing his immune system. At least that is our theory. He was staggering like a drunk, falling down and so bad that we initially thought he had some trauma to his neck. Our gelding did respond to Marquis also but never fully recovered and remained about Grade 1 neurological. He is a retired companion pony now.

Anything that challenges or suppresses the immune system and brings it down can bring on a sudden and rapid growth of the EPM protozoa if there is a low grade infection already. I think the problem is that no one fully understands yet how horses "get" EPM and why some and not others. Suffice it to say that it is possible that he could have it. I'm very glad to hear he's getting Marquis.

I will keep jingling that he responds!

foxhavenfarm

Sep. 1, 2009, 11:16 AM

He is much better this morning. The ataxia is better and he is more "with it". They took out the IV this morning as well and will take him out to hand graze today and see how he is getting around. So, if all goes well he will be coming home tomorrow!

I'll continue to update...

Thank you all! The power of COTH jingles is amazing!

xsalute

Sep. 1, 2009, 12:01 PM

jingles for your colt!

windyoak

Sep. 1, 2009, 01:27 PM

Jingles for your boy~ So happy to hear he is doing better. :D

Home Again Farm

Sep. 1, 2009, 01:49 PM

Sending more jingles...

Jessi P

Sep. 1, 2009, 02:54 PM

So glad to hear things are looking a bit brighter, continued jingles!

Fred

Sep. 1, 2009, 07:20 PM

I'm glad things are looking up, continued jingles

maxxtrot

Sep. 1, 2009, 08:14 PM

glad to hear he is doing better.

foxhavenfarm

Sep. 2, 2009, 10:29 AM

Well, in spite of the fact that he is acting almost completely normal again, the test results came back and is EPM.

We are going to pick him up this afternoon. The vets at UF were amazed at his turnaround after only one treatment. We shall see how he progresses.

Thank you all again for your jingles and well-wishes! You guys are the best!

FLIPPED HER HALO

Sep. 2, 2009, 10:36 AM

Sending continued good thoughts your way!

Quinn

Sep. 2, 2009, 10:40 AM

Prayers and jingles will continue. I have had one experience with EPM but way before Marquis or even Baycox. I have faith if caught early and treated aggressively, you're in good shape.

http://community.webshots.com/user/ballyduff

Sep. 2, 2009, 11:15 AM

Which test was done?

Daydream Believer

Sep. 2, 2009, 11:34 AM

Wow...just wow. I'm so glad to hear that he's improving so quickly. Sending more jingles!

Blacktree

Sep. 2, 2009, 12:12 PM

Zu Zu

Sep. 2, 2009, 10:27 PM

Jingles Jingles Jingles ~ AO Always Optimistic !

foxhavenfarm

Sep. 3, 2009, 08:01 AM

Foxhaven- I'm still jingling for your colt, hopefully catching things early will give him the best chances possible.

My experience with EPM was from so long ago, I know a lot has changed now...so I have a few questions:

- How do you test for it now (it used to be just by spinal tap, but now it sounds like a blood test is also an option)?

- What are the treatment options, and how expensive do they run? Will they be a lifetime maintenance thing, or if you catch things early is there a chance of that not being the case?

Thanks!

They tested via spinal tap which they then sent to a lab in KY.

He is on Marquis which is expensive, although we have found it for as low as $699 online which lasts a month on a 1200lb horse. We got a bit lucky on this one as he is only 800 lbs, so we didn't have to buy a whole case. For now, he will only be on it for a month and then we'll re-evaluate.

The thing is, the UF vets are still not convinced the EPM is what caused his sudden symptoms. He tested on the lower end of positive, and his symptoms were SO severe and then bounced back so quickly...

This morning he is downright perky. :yes:

Sep. 3, 2009, 10:15 AM

80% of horses test positive with the spinal tap, simply because they hae been exposed to it. Was a blood test also done?

It's still possible it is EPM - his immune system is not fully up to par, so even a mild case could conceivably hit him quickly and hard. The right meds could easily start reversing the issue quickly.

But it's actually a good thing the vets are not convinced - it means they won't start dismissing other symptoms, if any, out of hand.

nsm

Sep. 3, 2009, 10:37 AM

Continuing to send Jingles, prayers and good wishes-
Nancy

Blacktree

Sep. 3, 2009, 05:16 PM

They tested via spinal tap which they then sent to a lab in KY.

He is on Marquis which is expensive, although we have found it for as low as $699 online which lasts a month on a 1200lb horse. We got a bit lucky on this one as he is only 800 lbs, so we didn't have to buy a whole case. For now, he will only be on it for a month and then we'll re-evaluate.

The thing is, the UF vets are still not convinced the EPM is what caused his sudden symptoms. He tested on the lower end of positive, and his symptoms were SO severe and then bounced back so quickly...

This morning he is downright perky. :yes:

Thanks for the info, Fox Haven. I'm so glad to hear that he's feeling good, too! :)

80% of horses test positive with the spinal tap, simply because they hae been exposed to it. Was a blood test also done?

That is one of the things I remembered - to really know for sure, do you have to do both a spinal tap and a blood test?

Nilla Wafer

Sep. 30, 2009, 03:54 PM

how dangerous are spinal taps?

my horse just had blood drawn for possible EPM.... he is getting the western blot and the IFAT, using blood (not spinal fluid) to test.....

mbp

Sep. 30, 2009, 04:51 PM

JB - I think you are confusing the blood test and spinal tap testing. Lots of horses will show "exposure" to EPM in a blood test, but do not actually have the protozoa infecting their nervous system. The spinal tap is the test to see if the protozoa passed through the blood-brain barrier. The problem with the spinal tap (in addition to all the normal risks of a spinal tap) is that if any blood at all contaminates the tap (which can happen easily) then you can get a false positive.

Foxhaven - Meadow Herbs has a very active EPM bulletin board and a lot of EPM resources.
http://www.meadowherbs.com/EPMcenter.htm
and although it has been several years back, they were really invaluable when I went through the epm battle with one of my horses.

Even though I know there is more and better information now, I'm going to offer up a couple of things. On the Marquis, even though it is expensive, don't scrimp. It is weight sensitive and if you underdose you will shoot yourself in the foot. My vet wasn't as experienced with it - it was fairly newish when I went through things - and we did underdose at first.

When the protozoa pass the blood-brain barrier, they can lodge in different places which is why there are not hard and fast patterns with how fast it comes on and what kind of ataxia you have. A lot of the symptoms that you see result from inflamation at the site where the protozoa lodged, either from the body dealing with them as they die off or from the immune response or from damage they are doing. So if your horse was treated with some heavy duty anti-inflamatories, some of the improvement you saw take place so quickly might be in part related to getting an inflammatory response under control as opposed to the Marquis "working" that fast. Not saying it is, but something to keep in mind and one reason I mention it is that sometimes, as the Marquis goes to work, you have episodes of accelerated die off of the protozoa, which can cause more inflammation and cause you to think that your horse is relapsing badly or not responding, since he will get more ataxic or symptomatic. My guy went through this around days 6-8 or so on Marquis. If that happens, a) don't be discouraged, it can be a good sign and b) seek treatment to address the inflammatory response in the horse right away, to minimize damage and give him support.

Much good luck, with Marquis and better diagnostics etc., it seems that many horses do very well with recovery.

aaussie_gal

Sep. 30, 2009, 05:40 PM

Has anyone else ever seen EPM come on like this?

A good place to ask this would be the yahoo's EPM list - over 500 members:
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EPM/join

Other good info:

EPM Support Center:
http://www.meadowherbs.com/EPMcenter.htm

Welcome Letter to owners of newly diagnosed horses:http://www.meadowherbs.com/yahooletter.htm

Great that he's doing so well.
Jingles!