Hmm this seems like A LOT of grain

[starkissed]

I moved my horse from the farm to a show barn.
My horse, a WB, is a relatively easy keeper- he kind of always stays the same weight/build no matter what I feed him. He is not fat at all. I give him about 4qts of sweet feed a day split up. He has pasture and free choice hay in his stall- as do all the show horse- TONS of hay!

But occasionally I will go to ride at feed time and take a look at what everyone else is getting.
The barn has 2 feeds-
a pelleted feed that is very low in starch and sugar, but very high in fiber: 12% protein, 6% fat, and 20% fiber

sweet feed: 12% fat, 8% fat, 9% fiber.

My horse is in the smaller 7 stall barn and he is the only one who get's the sweet feed. Everyone else get's the pellet feed and a TON of it. The 8qt buckets were almost full! And that's twice a day!


Why are they getting so much? If they were being fed the sweet feed blend would they get less? I realize that it's 20% fiber (which is like hay or hulls or something?) But it's still a 'grain' per say and a lot for the stomach.
I am not a huge fan of sweet feed, but my horse is used to it and he doesn't get a whole lot. I might think about switching to the pellet but I don't want to give him that much.

[JB]

4 quarts of sweet feed is in the range of 5-6lb - that's hardly "a relatively easy keeper" :)

I agree that 16 quarts of ANY pelleted feed is insane. In. Sane.

What "sweet feed" are you feeding? If it's truly a sweet feed, it's high in NSC which is not healthy.

[starkissed]

Oh and this is kind of a side post. Here is my horse. Personally I want him to be fatter- well sort of a mixture of fat, but also bulk/muscle, etc. I tried bumping up his food this summer and his weight really didn't change at all. Tell me what you think. He is a 5yr old- ignore the leg wraps!

http://s12.photobucket.com/albums/a225/Parellihorses/todd/?action=view&current=DSC01470.jpg

To me he just looks a little weedy, his ribs are not visible and you can barely feel them when you press in. Is it just his build?

[Alexie]

my horse didn't put any weight on until i stopped feeding him sweet feed and put him on an EPSM based diet.

He doesn't need much oil either (about a coffee cup full) just cutting out the damage the carbs ware causing was enough to allow him to bulk up and at 13 this is the first time he's ever carried some weight
he wasn't thin before, just not as furnished as i expected.
now he is
i'd highly recommend trying the diet with your horse-it's not intrusive, its easy to give and if it's right for the horse the benefits are enormous.

[Chall]

I was expecting skinny. And saw the photo and thought he's not weedy. But he does have a tucked up tummy, his hip and butt bones are the high points on his rear end. But he appears to have some fat points. I think maybe he is still growing and pretty soon you will have suddenly have a plump horse on your hands and wonder how that happened. :)

[JB]

his ribs are not visible and you can barely feel them when you press in. Is it just his build?
Why do you want him "fatter"? He is TOO heavy is you can barely feel his ribs.

He looks like an under-muscled 5yo who hasn't been in enough correct work ;)

Drop the sweet feed, use a vit/min supplement with Tri-Amino, add a couple of pounds of alfalfa pellets if he drops too much weight, otherwise use a cup or 2, 1lb max, to carry his supps, or use a ration balancer and add a-pellets for calories if he needs them.

Easy, simple, much healthier than whatever sweet feed you're using ;)

[LuvMyDressageQH]

I thought ribs are meant to be felt but not seen? He is super cute and doesn't look skinny to me... The only thing I would concentrate on is building up some muscle in the hind end and over the back. Looking at some of the other pics there are a couple where he looks a little cresty but hopefully that is the result of hard work :) Good luck with him

[JB]

my horse didn't put any weight on until i stopped feeding him sweet feed and put him on an EPSM based diet.

Exactly - diets high in sugars are often counterproductive to weight gain.

But a high-fat diet isn't necessarily going to help - it does the EPSM horses, it might some others, but easier keepers cannot have added fat.

I think the OP horse would benefit greatly from few sugars and added amino acids.

[monicabee]

At 5 I wouldn't worry too much. But if there has been some change in his condition, or your instincts say that something is missing, maybe it is.

My horse had been looking just a little peaky at the beginning of the summer - getting down to a 4 on the Henneke scale - slightly ribby, but with a big hay belly.
I had been adding pellets and oats (he gets alfalfa pellets, mineral-hoof supplement, a cup or so of oats and a cup of sunflower seeds for his coat, because he seemed to get itchy from the premixed feeds), but decided to try a flake of alfalfa swapped out for one of his grass ones. That was way more effective, plus he eats every last stem with a dreamy look in his eyes.

In a month his hay belly has diminished, his ribs are covered, his back is more rounded and he has begun to glow. Now I would consider him just right for his body type (He's a TB, but relatively short backed and rounded, not long and rangy). He is a relatively easy keeper for a sport horse, and last summer got almost too fat when the grass was super-lush, so the peakiness caught me off guard.

That's part of why I was slow to change his diet. Then I realized he has been working more consistently than in the past because his feet have come around and so I needed to put a little more energy in the tank.

Every horse is different - what worked for mine might not for yours - but if you can tinker with his hay, that is likely to be a more effective way to deliver nutrients. I know when you are boarding sometimes it is harder to do.

[sublimequine]

The pelleted feed sounds like a complete feed to me, at 20% fiber. Many complete feeds are fed at the rate of 1 to 2 lbs per 100lbs body weight (pretty much like hay). So it may not be that "wrong", the amount their feeding. Depends on how much those full buckets weigh I guess.

[yellowbritches]

That's not weedy in my book, and 4 qts of sweet feed is not an easy keeper in my book either (my "hard" keepers eat 4,5, and 6 lbs of feed...one is getting 9, but he was having some issues).

But, I also agree that 16 qts of ANY feed is a lot in one day, and 8 in one helping is absurd.

[Noctis]

That is one heck of a lot of a usually useless feed (sweetfeed). I'd cut out the sweetfeed and find a complete feed or a lower NSC quality feed. You're fellow looks FAT with a lack of correct muscling from correct work....but 6lbs is NOT an easy keeper! My easy keepers get a coffee cup (ie VERY SMALL amt) of Nutrena Safe Choice just to keep them happy, free choice very high quality hay and are on grass. And they're plump. Thats an easy keeper!

[Ritazza]

Nobody agrees with me on this one I'm sure, but... I think he's a fattie!

[whbar158]

Tough crowd, anyways I would consider 5-6 lbs a day about average keeper (that is the recommended amount of most feeds). Especially if the horse doesn't have access to a grassy field. I consider a hard keeper to need more than about 6 lbs of grain a day, but it does sound like the pellet is a complete pellet and is being fed in place of access to grass and hay. Free choice hay is great, but not all horses like it and end up using their hay for bedding instead of food.

Yes that is a lot of food, but they may need it for various reasons. Everyone has different ways of caring for the horses, as long as the look good I wouldn't worry.

[whbar158]

As to your horse he looks fine, not fat or skinny. I think with his head down it is harder to see what he really looks like, and ones that grow sometimes look fat and sometimes look skinny and will even out later.

[sdlbredfan]

Oh and this is kind of a side post. Here is my horse. Personally I want him to be fatter- well sort of a mixture of fat, but also bulk/muscle, etc. I tried bumping up his food this summer and his weight really didn't change at all. Tell me what you think. He is a 5yr old- ignore the leg wraps!

http://s12.photobucket.com/albums/a225/Parellihorses/todd/?action=view&current=DSC01470.jpg

To me he just looks a little weedy, his ribs are not visible and you can barely feel them when you press in. Is it just his build?

Why on earth would you want him fatter!? He is a horse, not an angus steer. Too much weight is not a good thing for a horse, for same reasons it is not good for humans. (metabolic)

[SSS4]

Very cute and fat!!! I would not put any more weight on him!! I will reiterate the previous posts...too much weight is not good!!!

I would think that the pellet is a complete feed at 20% fiber so it can actually replace 50% of a horse's forage diet. They do still need long stem. If you think the avg horse gets 25-30 pounds of hay per day feeding them 10-15 pounds of a complete feed is acceptable. If you don't want him getting that much, give instructions on what to feed him!

[starkissed]

Thanks everyone! Yeah fatter isn't exactly the right word- maybe just bigger! I feel like I have been waiting forever for this horse to mature! I think he is in a good weight (I don't think he is fat though) But he definitely needs more muscle.

He was in a lot of work this summer- because I wanted to get his muscles up so he would be stronger for flatwork. His program included hacking out with hill-big grassy rolling hills, several days a week. I took him on log canters too. I was getting him fit for 2 beginner novice horse trials. But with all that work his butt never got any bigger! And he was perfectly fit for his shows too.

I think he is just very very slow to mature. But it has been so long I am wondering if his feed has anything to do with it. I will make clear though that he hasn't changed recently or anything.


As for the suggestion- ehhh I don't know what NSC is in regard to sweet feed
and I don't know what EPSM is either? Thanks!

Oh and I wouldn't mind cutting the grain because I don't think he needs it too much. The only other thing my barn has is alfalfa cubes, but they give them too the horses without soaking them and I really don't approve of that.

[starkissed]

Thanks Rodawn, that was really helpful. I definitely think more alfalfa less grain is the way to go- but it doesn't always happen at home b/c alfalfa is $$$, luckily only one of ours needs it.

But now back to horse in subject line. I need to have a little chat with the BO and ask for my horse to be turned out in a more lush pasture. He has been at the barn for 3 weeks and they have gradually moved him on from little pen to field, to field with 2 buddies. But now I want him out in the grassy field, not the chewed down one.
Right now he is in during the day and I am trying to get him out day and night which I prefer.
So if he was out day/night he would only get a little bit of hay for the time he was in the stall to get fed, do you think just grass would be enough? The hay our barn has seems to be good quality. I am not sure what kind it is but it looks like some sort of rye grass, could be timothy, I kind of forget what that is like.


So here is a potential plan. Get his turnout thing figured out so there is more fresh grass. Cut back the sweet feed- or get rid of it entirely, does he need to be weaned? Then start giving him alfalfa cubes (soaked) for his meals. Do you think I should give him some of the pelleted feed mentioned in the original post for minerals or whatever they put in there?
Thanks!

[Hampton Bay]

If that pelleted feed is a complete feed, you would have to feed so much of it to get the recommended vitamins/minerals that it wouldn't be worth it.

I have all of mine on grass 24/7, and they get SmartVite and enough alfalfa cubes to make them feel loved. They get the vitamins/minerals but without all the calories.

Something like that might be better for your guy. Or a ration balancer would work too. If he's having trouble with building muscle, then add some alfalfa or some lysine. But the sweet feed isn't doing any favors.

[ivy62]

The picture of this horse looks like he a bit heavier then I generally like..but maybe he needs to build muscle too....As for the food...my horse is out on grass 12-14 hours a night and he gets 1 lb of rice bran pellets and 1 lb of organic feed for each meal twice a day and his weight is awesome.... Even in the winter he gets the same meal and lots of hay...Gras and hay is fine but you will then need to supplement minerals that they lack....
JMHO

[HoofHeartSoul]

well, what kind of discipline is this barn? how much work do the horses do? (light,moderate,intense?) what breed is mainly in this barn (easy keeping warmbloods or mostly hard keeping TB's?)

if the horses are truly getting free choice hay and nice pasture i wouldn't think they would need that much grain AT ALL.

how much hay by Weight do they get daily?
how many times do they feed per day?


sorry but they must be in EXTREME work for that much grain with free choice hay and pasture. or there metabolisms are working as they should (parasites etc etc)

[saultgirl]

I think he's at a good weight, not fat or skinny.