Lessoning w/instructor other than BO.

[AlterLesson]

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[atr]

Talk to BO.

You could ask her whether, if you found someone who interested her, whether she'd like to "clinic" with them too.

[spotmenow]

No matter how you slice it, you have to talk to BO because it IS her place and she has the right to refuse.

You may have to trailer out.

[greysandbays]

Two thoughts:

If nobody else is having a RI come in, then maybe it "isn't done" there.

If you are the only one brining in a RI, it's real easy to get thought of (and maybe act like) a bigshot who's parading their bigshot-ness before the "unwashed masses".

It might be less traumatic to let the BO know you have found a Dressage instructor you would like to trailer to on occasion. If that sets off the fireworks, you'll know talking about bringing a RI will not be greeted with anything like cooperation, much less enthusiasm. And if you bring up trailering out, the BO might make the suggestion that the RI come to the barn.

[CarolinaGirl]

My last instructor always encouraged us to ride/clinic with other good instructors when we could. She even brought in people she rode with and very much liked when we rode with them, even if it meant we didn't ride with her that week. They may explain something a certain way that finally makes it click in your brain or notice something that she didn't. I really dislike trainers who get upset because you ride with someone other than them. I am not their piece of meat, good or bad. I'd just tell her that you don't want to insult/upset her, but that you found a very nice dressage instructor that you'd like to try and is it ok with her if you bring her in? Maybe ask her if she'd like to take a lesson as well?
It doesn't sound like you have actually been riding with the BO to begin with. You're not exactly taking your business elsewhere in that department since you weren't doing business in lessons anyway.

[HenryisBlaisin']

Talk to the BO. I'm in the same situation-my BO only teaches beginners, and horse and I are past that stage. He had no problem with my trainer coming in for two reasons: 1. He knows he can't really teach us and he's ok with that and comfortable with teaching his own specialty, and 2. I'm still keeping my horse there-if he'd said no, I'd definitely have considered moving. So it was a win-win situation. I love boarding there, my horse is extremely happy, and I get good training at out level.

[Percheron X]

Unfortunately allowing an outside trainer can tend to be bad for business, and that is why many barns have policies that don't allow it.

Ultimately you have to ask your BO for permission, you won't know until you ask.

But be prepared to be told no, and understand that many barns could not remain in business if they allowed outside trainers.....

Boarding pays the expenses, lessons and training make the profits.

Once you let one boarder have an outside trainer, everyone may then have incentive to ask, and there goes the business...

The only time I see outside trainers work out, is in barns where the farm is more of a hobby and the profit motive not that intense, or in barns where the resident trainer has more lessons than they can handle alone, so they bring in another trainer who typically gets something like 50% of the lesson proceeds.

[JWB]

Tough situation.... I worked at a barn where you could take lessons in saddle seat or dressage although we had a LOT of different types of riders.

BO's insurance and business practice did not allow for guest instructors to come to the farm (except for the occasional clinic) but lots of us trailered out to lessons.

[SarahandSam]

I'd talk to the BO, and stress the fact that you're interested in an upper-level dressage instructor. My BO does training--mainly colt starting, tune-ups, problem fixing, stuff like that--and gives beginner lessons. He was okay with my bringing in an instructor though because I was riding hunt seat and he wouldn't be caught dead in an English saddle. (; If I wanted lessons in something the BO could do, I would go to the BO, but if it's a different specialty they're okay with my bringing someone else in.

[twofatponies]

One other alternative is to go to the outside trainer and do some lessons on his/her horses (for example if you don't have a trailer). You can then bring those concepts back and work on them on your own with your horse.

a) this will give you a feel as to whether you really want to continue with the outside trainer before starting to either trailer out or ask if outside trainer can come in

b) it may be enough to give you some exercises and feel of things to work on independently, especially if you are a more experienced rider already.

[Tiligsmom]

Definitely talk to the BO. Let her know you value her and the relationship. Also let her know you're going to take a few lessons from the other trainer to she what she's like and to give you and your horse more exposure to other environments (always a good thing!).

Trailer to some lessons and see if you like them. If you do, then proceed from there.

I'm doing that right now. My BO is a very good instructor AND I wanted to get my young horse out so that he and I got in the habit of traveling as part of "life". This way show season isn't such a big deal. I also wanted to take a few lessons from a fabulous local trainer to get her input/help.

It's all working fine right now. Although, I am fairly certain that my BO will get gossipy/critical about my riding if I don't also include lessons from her. Unfortunately, it seems to be the downside to this type of situation. I'll continue to do what I want/need, as I made a decision years ago to never be "owned" by a trainer again!

[mellsmom]

I have a great barn that I go to..... the barn manager rides with me, but she also teaches lessons to many of her boarders. I don't poach her people. :-) She has sent me a few of her boarders and that's awesome. But she's an awesome person and most barns just aren't this way.
I have other students are at barns with no resident trainers and that's really easy.
I have one that's at a barn that does not allow instructors to come in after the last one left with a number of her boarders. So, there are two sides to every story :-( She hauls out to meet me.

If your barn owner is not a dressage instructor, she may be totally fine with you having your new trainer come in. Approach her from that angle...and see how that goes. Also be prepared to have the new instructor send proof of coverage from their instructors liability policy to your current barn. But it may help if your person is a traveling instructor like I am... who does not have a boarding barn or home base barn. That can seem less threatening. If your current barn owner does not know the proposed instructor, be prepared to share their credentials and information about their training style, etc. If they have mutual acquaintances, that may help the BO feel more comfortable with this person. And I would put it to the BO in more of a hey, I'm thinking about taking up dressage, I've done my homework and would like to try a few lessons with this person... here is her info....etc. would you consider allowing the instructor to come here. If so, how would you want to work that? I would expect to work around your lesson schedule. Would you require an additional ring fee on top of my board?

Good Luck!

[sid]

I would say that you are thinking about taking dressage lessons and ask the BO if there is a ring fee if you were to bring in a dressage instructor for lessons from time to time.

They don't teach dressage, so I'm not sure what the concern would be if you want to concentrate on a specific discipline.

[Ja Da Dee]

It can be a tricky situation. I used to board at a place where lessons were included in board. THe BO didn't allow outside instructors come in due to insurance issues. She did put on an occasional dressage clinic with outside instructors. I started occasionally trailering out to the dressage coach that she had in for clinics. I also cliniced a few times with a BNT XC coach. It didn't go over well with the BO. We ended up parting on not-so-good terms as she was offended that I took lessons outside of her program. In her words exactly "what did they teach you that I haven't?".

Tread with care and be prepared to NOT take outside lessons, or move to a place where it's not a problem, and maybe be allowed to trailer IN to your current instructor.

[findeight]

[quote=CarolinaGirl;4340499]I really dislike trainers who get upset because you ride with someone other than them. I am not their piece of meat, good or bad. I'd just tell her that you don't want to insult/upset her, but that you found a very nice dressage instructor that you'd like to try and is it ok with her if you bring her in? [quote]

Errr, that sounds a little like thinking you are entitled to bring another pro onto an exsisting pros place of business and expecting them to like it.

I really would not approach the subject of bringing in an outside trainer with any expectation any right to do so exsists.

Besides that, OP, have you even asked the outside trainer if she is willing to come there and be willing to either pay a ring fee or split the lesson proceeds? Besides the fact that the outside instructor is profitting from using the BOs facilities, there are things like insurance and how other boarders will react...because if you bring one in, they may also wish to do so.

It's not so simple as it seems to open up a business to other pros to take advantage of the client base. May not even be good business for the BO to do so. And it may not even be good business for that other instructor to come to another barn if she has her own.

[sid]

Unless you have signed a boarding agreement that prohibits you from using a "personal" trainer, and/or a clause that says you may only receive instruction from in-house trainers or instructors (exclusivity for the barn re: training) -- or at minimum specifies that you must come to an agreement about from whom you wish to recieve instruction (ring fees, etc. for non- inhouse instructors), I'm not sure I understand what the problem is.

I've owned and operated a lovely facility and this was never an issue. While I offered instruction from our IC instructor at very good rates, that in no way took away the boarders' right to choose their own instructor.

Granted, as far as ring use/time inhouse trainer schedule was "pat", and the outside trainer had to acquiesce as far as ring use time. Charging an outside trainer a ring fee who was training one of my boarders would be be silly reek of non-inclusiveness as to the endeavor of giving horses and their owners that which they wanted to personally pursue.

Whether the boarder rode alone, with our trainer or with an outside trainer...the wear and tear for which that charge is assessed is the same. Ring fee is absorbed by boarding.

I simply do not understand the petty jealosy in this topic and the fearfulness of boarders to seek what they want as far as training.

Sure, if some outside trainer (I use that term loosely...I've seen many hang out a shingle, oy) came on site who obviously was hee-hawing some gringo person around AND IT WAS DETRIMENTAL to the horse...they'd be asked to leave I would tell the boarder that as a steward for their horse, that trainer is not welcome. As the BO, the obligation is to the care and well being of the horse, first and foremost. That can be very titchy, and I assume the boarder will leave with the trainer. Okay with me, I don't want to watch it and know I can't change that starstruck look when a neophyte rider gloms onto their trainer. That's why I have a 30 termination clause that can be given for no reason.

I wish more horsemen would see a contract as a contract in a businesslike fashion, and keep the emotion, jealosy and drama out of it. It makes so many look like fools (all sides...boarders, BO's and trainers.

An agreement between two parties. A boarding contract is just that...a contract to board your horse for care only. That contract is with the BO.

Pursuit of training is a whole different ball game, that just boarding. Read your contract. Seldom to the two meet unless you pursue and agree to board at a place for a particular discipline and have examined the trainers, long before you sign the contract.

"Boarding Barns" are not "training barns" unless they have stipulated so in the contract they present to you and that you signed.

[dwblover]

I would probably present it as you have found a clinician that could come to the farm once per month, would BO be interested in taking a clinic with you at the farm.