bit for ottb?

[chelsealaurenmurphy]

my ottb was rushed through training after he was taken off the track. it's been a good 6 years since he's raced, but he still has the off-track tendencies. the main one being that he is very difficult to stop. right now he is in a kimberwick bit -- this one right here: http://www.horsetackco.com/images/211045.jpg
once he gets cantering, he won't stop for anything. any suggestions?

[Riley0522]

He must be reaaaally strong. I used to hunt in a bit similar to that on some heavy pullers, and just the kimberwicke being in their mouths totally changed their attitude when we were galloping with the pack! It definitely gave me waaaay more whoa than the eggbutt snaffles we hunted most of the herd in.

I'd throw him back in a plain snaffle. He really needs to listen to your seat. I know my OTTB will just get stronger if I pull on his face. He does listen to voice commands, my seat, and a strong half halt, but constant hauling just makes him get stronger. Teach him a one rein halt. If you need to, pull his head right to your knee, he will stop! TBs are very smart, and they usually get it after a few tight circles with their head at your knee! Back when my horse was younger, this was really helpful on those cold windy, winter days.

My guy goes nicely in a plain full cheek, and sometimes a slow twist to change it up a little. I have been considering an elevator with 2 reins for jumping, but have yet to try it.

Good luck!

[FatPalomino]

I ride everyone here in a snaffle, including crazy, lifelong racehorses.

Lots of them want to drag and lean on their front end. Lots of transitions on circles will help that. I'll ride them for a while at first in a running martingale, and always check their teeth.

I tell the new riders if they ever feel out of control to make a big circle, then circle smaller and smaller... most of them will stop and it's better than aiming them at a fence at a gallop ;)

[Posting Trot]

You might also try (if you haven't already) going back to lunging him and getting him to do everything with voice commands. That may help.

Also, are there particular situations in which he's more likely to pull? You say he starts pulling when he's cantering, but is it only when he's outside the ring? or when other horses are around? Or when you're jumping? If you can identify a particular situation that sets him off, you might also avoid that situation for a while until you've worked with him more and gotten him more reliable.

I don't think that simply changing the bit to a harsher one will help you in the long run. It might be useful for occasional use (for example, riding in a show in unfamiliar surroundings), but if you begin to rely too much on a harsher bit to "fix" what's really a hole in the training, you'll end up constantly having to escalate.

In addition, some horses evade a bit that hurts or bothers them by pushing into it. So you might want to experiment with a snaffle (and make sure that his teeth have been floated recently too).

Good luck.

[Rhyadawn]

Take him back to groundwork/lunging, and really cement your voice commands.

Is he evading the bit when you ask him to slow down? Grabbing it to pull through it?

I typically ride everything in cherry copper rollers. I prefer (usually) to stay away from a kimber, I prefer a pelham if I want the curb action (and sometimes you do), but before "bitting up" I would focus on the training issue.

[Foxtrot's]

I have found less is more with a strong horse. I prefer a snaffle with a lozenge - the jointed snaffles seem to just pinch those thin bony mouth bars and in the TB's just made them run through the pain. Agree with above, loosen up and do circles with a light rein, one rein stops and sitting up using vice.

[ThoroughbredFancy]

I just have a plain full cheek for my guy.

I think it's time to go back to basics with your guy, not bit up more. I'd go back to a snaffle.

[vbunny]

Have you ridden at the track? Maybe get somebody from there to show you how to stop/slow a race horse. They are really good at it and can show you some techniques you won't get taught by anyone else.

[Foxtrot's]

That comment reminded me of the sad day when Barbaro had to be pulled up from a full gallop :(

[goeslikestink]

a kimblewick is the best as its a tad stronger than a snaffle but not as strong as a pelham
i would also takethe horse back to basics and do a lot of flat work but vary the flat work with going out hacking look at my helpful links pages on the sticky on the dressage forums

[JB]

Lose the kimberwick. Take him back to a rope halter, or a simple snaffle, and start over. Way over. Like he's never been ridden.

A rope halter is very useful, IMHO and IME, because it allows you to use stronger "language" without damaging the horse's mouth and/or making him afraid of the bit.

[dwblover]

I agree with all the posters who said go back to basics. I just wanted to add, be very aware of your body position on OTTBs. If you are leaning forward, even just a hair, that means GO! Be sure to stay vertical or even lean just a bit backwards in the beginning to make sure horse understands you do not want to gallop. I also think it is very, very easy to get into a pulling match with OTTBs, and to them that is just another signal to run. So, make absolutely sure you are using a light, light rein. Work in a round pen if you need to, and don't leave it until you can walk,trot, and canter with almost no contact. When horse speeds up, correct, go back to slower pace, and give reins back again immediately. This technique will also teach them self-carriage.

[CarolinaGirl]

Ditto to what dwblover says. Lots of track horses see pulling on the reins as a signal to run and I can't see upping the bit helping you. We've had a number of OTTB's through the barn and all of them have gone in snaffles. Two went in elevators for jumping, and one went in a slow twist full cheek for awhile on XC but then moved back to a regular snaffle. Lots of trasitions and changes of direction, make him think. Be very aware of where and what your body is doing. Make sure you're stopping the motion of your body when you want the downward transition.. many people think they are, but they aren't. I've ridden horses where I literally felt like I had to throw myself into the trot to make it work. Shoulders back.. leaning again means go.
Most importantly make sure your leg is on!! Many people go into the pull on the reins take the leg off lean forward thing when they can't stop! You really do have to sit up (shoulders back, butt IN saddle), put put your leg on!, and stop the motion of your body to stop a horse (or do a downward transition) as hard as that is at times.

[Buffyblue]

Mine has a French link snaffle.

[chelsealaurenmurphy]

you guys have been awesome! thank you so much for all of your advice.

first off, i noticed the most pulling while we were jumping. we are just doing little cavaletti's about 6 - 8 inches at the most, but he gets SO excited and after the getaway he takes off and goes a bit crazy. he will sometimes throw his head down while cantering, and i'm certain it's something i'm doing wrong that causes him to do this so i will take the criticism for it. other than that, he is such a good horse. he has such a calm temper for a tb and he's so loving. also, i'm sure that i have been leaning forward a bit, so that must be a little confusing for him. he responds fairly well with voice commands and he knows "trot" very well lol, but once he gets around those cavaletti's he really gets so excited. is there any way to calm him?

[LKF]

Get him in a gentle bit ASAP. Don't make the mistake of using harsher bits, but rather investigate the German KK bit's http://www.doversaddlery.com/product.asp?pn=X1-01354&bhcd2=1251665130
that help the horse's mouth salivate and curves around the lower palate. Or look into the "D-ring JP Steel" double jointed bits with the copper bead in the center http://www.countrytack.com/Bits/jp_korsteel_bits.htm . That does the same thing as the KK but costs around $40.

Another suggestion is to start working out and get more physically fit. The better you are, the easier the ride becomes.

[chelsealaurenmurphy]

thank you! i'm looking at those bits and it's just crazy seeing how simple they are. the person who told me to buy the kimberwick in the first place is a girl i board with, who has been riding her whole life and does hj. she was so puzzled and is the one who suggested a harsher bit. it's just crazy that you guys are opening up my eyes that not everything that comes out of her mouth is accurate.

[vbunny]

He is probably rushing the jump and losing his balance over it, very common for a TB learning to jump. They tend to jump with thier chests first when learning, it's how they are used to "going more" meaning at thtrack when they are asked to dig in and try harder they lower their bodies and lean the chest into it to get the job done. They need to be taught to use themselves differently over it so that they realize they can get to the other side slowly and in balance and using thier topline instead.

[chelsealaurenmurphy]

so today i put his reins in the top hole of the kimberwick which is as close as i can get to a regular snaffle right now, i tried to sit deep in my seat while asking him to stop, and he seemed to respond fairly well. we only jumped about five times today because he had a long day yesterday and i didn't want to overwork him, so i couldn't really tell if these simple changes have had much of an effect, but i noticed that the second from the last time we went over the jump, his canter was nicely collected in the getaway and i didn't feel like he was simply taking off. so that made me smile :)

but........ i have a bigger problem. for the past week he's been choking on his feed.
http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=221485

[LOVE*MY*NAGS]

Sounds like your horse is bolting his food. Try placing several good size rocks in his feed bucket so he can't eat so fast. It may also help to wet down his feed with water.

I agree with all about going to a simple snaffle (I use french links), not a harsher bit to try to control him ~ go back to the basics. Get a solid, consistent, controllable walk, trot, canter. Do lots of transitions! I would get this SOLID before I jumped.

Good luck!

[ptownevt]

Another vote for a french link snaffle. No nutcracker action to the roof of their mouth or bars. Also lets you isolate one side or the other nicely.

[chelsealaurenmurphy]

yes, i'm def looking into the french link :) i like this one: http://www.123tack.com/myler-dee-french-link-snaffle--mb-10-.html?productid=myler-dee-french-link-snaffle--mb-10-&channelid=FROOG

[ptownevt]

That looks like a very nice choice. I have two mylers, one for my daughter's pony and just purchased a myler double jointed kimberwick for her TB gelding. I wish they were a bit cheaper, but the Mylers are very nice bits that are beautifully designed for the horse's comfort.
Pam

[Blinkers On]

That comment reminded me of the sad day when Barbaro had to be pulled up from a full gallop :(

topping one in hopes of saving it's life and getting one to just stop are two very different things. We often find "superhuman" strength in times gone bad.

I have always wondered how people deal with the really strong track horses. Sure they do exist. The ones that pull regardless of who you put on their back or what you put in their mouth. Since you likely have this kind of horse, biggest isn't necessarily better. And as others have said, going back to basics might really serve you well.
Back in the day when I was the one doing the breaking I always thought "teach a horse the right way and they will return to it (eventually) no matter what habits they develop on track. I tied them back, tied them around, had them move into the bridle, giving to the bit and bending. I drove them everywhere. Had a whoa and a back, and a cluck to jog and a kiss to lope.
I have seen it aid that people ought not tie a OTTB's head back for some reason or another. I find that interesting as it is something a very well respected Hall Of Fame trainer does regularly on track. He wants lighter, responsive horses. I have done it and if needed would do it again.
The thing with tying them back is they have to get off the bit to get relief from the pressure of the bit. It is interesting how quickly they learn that. They learn it side to side and on direct pressure from both reins and they are pretty well equipped with what they need to know for you to build on.
A an exercise rider and a trainer, it is important for all horses to have a whoa and a go. one of the two might save your life one day.
I'd back up and start the horse from lesson 1.

[Bluesy]

Mine goes in either a loose ring kk ultra or a french link.

I found a bit that my (hot) QH loves - it's an eggbutt french link with a copper link - haven't tried it on Bluesy (the ottb) since his mouth is about 1/2 an inch smaller than Jet's. Great bit though :)

Good luck to you and your horse - hope everything works out for you. :yes:

[chelsealaurenmurphy]

thank you very much :) i'm going to get a french link with copper, but should i get a d ring or a loose ring?

[Posting Trot]

I think a D ring would be the most appropriate just because it will be a bit more stable in his mouth. A loose-ring tends to transmit every slight quiver of the reins to the horse's mouth.

Good luck.