Yikes. Just...Yikes.

[Nanerpus]

Saw this on another board and wanted to post it. Warning: VERY graphic.

http://www.rvhr.com/twosocks.shtml

[BigRuss1996]

Wow...seriously?...why don't they do the humane thing and put him to sleep? It's things like this that put me off rescues. With all the horses in the world needing to be taken in and/or rescued they will rack up bills and take in donations to save one horse like this who is probably in so much pain right now that what they are putting him through is so cruel. He doesn't know they are "saving" him all he knows is he is horrible pain. So sad....

[Marli]

Wow...seriously?...why don't they do the humane thing and put him to sleep? It's things like this that put me off rescues. With all the horses in the world needing to be taken in and/or rescued they will rack up bills and take in donations to save one horse like this who is probably in so much pain right now that what they are putting him through is so cruel. He doesn't know they are "saving" him all he knows is he is horrible pain. So sad....

I feel terribly bad for this poor horse. His navicular bone can be seen through the bottom of what's left of his foot. Just can't imagine the pain he's in. The kindest gift that could be done would be to euthanize. Honestly, I've never seen anything like that. So sad.... :no:

[Appassionato]

Poor horse! I agree with others, it may be his time to go over the bridge. I can't see how the horse could heal from this.

[Foxtrot's]

Where is Roanoak Valley - authorities should be consulted. No mention of veterinary care.
This is apalling. Just because they are an approved rescue does not mean a thing. Approved by who's standards. Wow, just wow.

[yellowbritches]

I agree, and I often wonder why rescues that are barely hanging on go to extraordinary measures to save a horse (I always think of the one that ended up with a prosthetic leg), instead of giving them a dignified and humane end. It would be better than starving to death, as most would have if not rescued, and it would save thousands in much needed funds that could go to rehabilitating and re-homing horses that aren't already so far gone.

[Patty Stiller]

Some"rescues" should not be in busuness because they don't know when an animal has reached the end. If they have not put this poor horse down by now, the authorities need to be notified ASAP so it can get done. Hopefully today. :mad:

[2Jakes]

It takes a LOT to gross me out...those pics did it. Poor horse is doomed to a slow and painful death, evidently his "rescuers" are not going to do him any favors. UGH!

[MistyBlue]

...and emaciated too.
Nice.
Morons.
CRUEL morons with God complexes.

Two Socks? Poor thing only has 3 feet.

[hopashore1]

They have their vet listed on the BOD page ( http://www.rvhr.com/bod.shtml )

I would assume they have discussed this horse's chance of recovery with their vet.

I've worked at a rescue (not this one, though in the same area (SW Virginia)). Sometimes you get in really bad vet cases...you try as long as the horse can try with what you can. Once the horse stopped trying or something went seriously downhill, we'd put them down.

[Kiwayu]

Ewww. NASTY! :dead:

Ohh and it takes a lot for me to say that. I'm the first one to say "ohhh cool" when I watch blood and guts stuff in person or on TV.

[Daydream Believer]

That is absolutely unbelievable. I don't think I would believe it if not for the pics. I agree that he should be euthanized...I can't imagine what the point is in attempting such a rehab.

I actually knew a yearling filly years ago at a barn I boarded my horses at that sloughed off her rear hoof...slowly. It separated at the coronet band and over a few months it grew down while new hoof grew from the coronet. Eventually the old hoof did come off but the bones were never exposed as her sole was intact. Since it happened slowly she was able to adapt fairly well. She did regrow all the structures and was eventually sound.

I just can't imagine that this old horse will somehow manage to avoid severe infection. I hope someone will see sense soon and euthanize him.

[Nanerpus]

My husband, who is becoming a horse person but doesn't know a ton yet, saw that and said "OMG! Why are they keeping him alive like that?" I just don't get it myself either, I don't see how he can possibly recover and just keep thinking about the horrible pain he is in.

[KrazyTBMare]

Ok so for the total hoof-idiot person (ME!), what causes this??? Is this founder? I totally need to educate myself more on these issues.

I cannot believe he LITERALLY walked out of his hoof. It just doesnt even make sense to me in my brain on how that could happen.

Poor thing. He should be relieved of all of his pain now rather than making him suffer and then deciding its too late to save him. :(

[EiRide]

OMG!!! WTF???!!!!

Anyone in the local area who can complain to the appropriate authorities? That horse has not got a prayer, and he's suffering terribly.

I feel sick, and that ain't easy to do.

[Hampton Bay]

It's amazing what horses can endure before they really show pain. Never in my wildest dreams would I try to "save" a horse in that condition.

[LMH]

While I may not agree...there actually have been successes of re-growing a hoof.

Amazing. But true.

[rodawn]

This has made me extraordinarily angry. I cannot even begin to think how the horse will possibly survive this - the infections of his internal tissues will be catastrophic. The pain must be enormous, which would contribute to his emaciation. If they were truly serious and money were no object, the horse should be hung in a sling to get the weight off that foot. Soaking or not, absolutely the wrong thing to be doing is having a horse standing on internal tissues and bare coffin bone of his foot. Any soaking should be done with the soak bag attached to the foot and the foot dangling in the air - not 1000 pounds of weight on it!! Seriously bad medical practicing going on here.

Even worse, in my opinion, this is a severe gross indifference to animal suffering and I think they're doing it because if the horse actually pulls through this, and if the horse actually grows a decent hoof (which will take at least a year), then they have something to brag about. They can say, "oh look how bad he was, here's the pictures, but look how good he is now" blah, blah.

I'm in agreement with others above. This horse should be crossing the rainbow bridge, sooner rather than later.

[JB]

While I may not agree...there actually have been successes of re-growing a hoof.

Amazing. But true.

I have seen 2 such case studies on the 'net.


It did involve some pretty serious hoof protection, but the horse did grow the entire hoof capsule back, and while I think they were not rideable sound, they were perfectly sound for living out a happy life in the pasture. And, IIRC, they did not suffer extraordinarily while growing that foot out.

[rodawn]

I'd be more inclined to fight for a horse that was younger and had solid health to back him up, but it is very obvious by the wounds and sores on his skin and his emaciation that he doesn't have great health to back him up for the long duration. I couldn't stand it. I contacted them and told them my opinion that they should let the kind gentleman go across the rainbow bridge.

[Petstorejunkie]

gotta love the grass and shit covered solar shot of the hoof capsule. looks like "great care" if you ask me
seriously, he's 25 with no horsey mom, let the poor thing go already! what does he have to lose next to convince them... his tail? how about if his ears fall off? :mad:

[EiRide]

I sent an email to the BOD expressing my distress. I suggest others who are disturbed do the same.

[Cayusepapoose]

I saw that earlier today and just went ballistic. I'm not real handy on the computer and I don't know most places in the states but I immediately looked up the nearest SPCA to Roanoke Valley and sent them an Email regarding the situation. There is no excuse for this horrific mess; it's a foregone conclusion that this horse cannot possibly survive ( I doubt at this point there is much feeling left in that stump; he'll be systemicly septic as well) but to beg for diaper funds??? Where in the HELL is Dr. Tanya Hatchett? SHE'S APPARENTLY THE VET THAT OVERSEES THIS "SHIP OF FOOLS"! I've been so angry about it I'm nauseous.
They need to be shut down Yesterday.

[DebbieB]

Are they keeping him around to drum up financial supporters? The situation is appalling.

I bet letters to their sponsors http://www.rvhr.com/supporters.shtml would get something done.

[reefy!]

How could they do this???

An email came to me from a local rescue a few weeks back asking for money for a $6k vet bill for a horse rescued from the feed lot that had a broken leg and required some surgery and hospital time. And I'm all for rescue! But to me, that doesn't make sense.

They don't know if the horse will ever be sound for anything other than a pasture puff. That seems like a really high dollar amount for a big "what if". In my mind, it seems that horse would have been happily sent to the rainbow bridge and the 'rescue' can rescue a horse that can be rehabbed and rehomed.

Maybe I don't understand rescue but why oh why would they not send THIS horse (in that link) off to horsey heaven? It just seems cruel.

[whbar158]

I thought the point of rescues (of any animal kind) was to save animals that have a good chance of being rehabbed then placed in a new home? This goes for animals with physical and mental issues. I don't think most people really want to adopt a horse that is going to require lots of $$$ maintenance and be hard to manage.

I would have no problem with a rescue picking up an animal that is beyound help just to put it down, but that would not require tons of funds. It makes no sense to spend thousands on an elderly horse that has no future what so ever. They could spend the same amount of money for 3-4 young horses that could find new homes.

[Marli]

I was curious if this 'story' had circulated to the farrier forums, and it has-

http://www.horseshoes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10949

[MistyBlue]

Calling this a learning experience isn't exactly a good thing either. It's not like this is a horse owned by someone with a bottomless wallet and is being cared for in a top horspital facility.
Poor old horse...it just looks miserable. It's ridiculous when humans say things like, "He'll tell me when it's time to give up."
No, he won't. This isn't Disney, horses don't talk. No, he doesn;t talk with his eyes either. The problem with those sentiments are the way each human "reads" the body language or look in a horse's eyes. Many do it through emotion, which is for dingbats.
Horses are walking meals for other animals. They're genetically coded to NOT show weakness, they hide it as much as physically possible for them. By the time a horse "tells" someone it's time to give up, that horse is in such pain it can no longer hide it.
They've had the horse since May of this year. Looking at it's body condition (lack of a foot aside) it's emaciated. That horse looks like a 1 to me. 3.5 months in a rescue and it's a 1? :eek:
That horse gave up eating...if that's not a sign it's time to let it go, I don't know what is.
Because if that horse was eating, it wouldn't be THAT skinny. It couldn't have been much skinnier when they got it 3.5 months ago, another 50 lbs off that horse and it would have died. So either they got the horse that damned skinny and it's not eating and gaining due to pain...or that horse has been losing the weight since they got it due to pain. Either way, it's in pain. A lot of it.
Shame on those folks...that's disgusting.
This is a flaming example of why there are some of us who refuse to donate to rescues who run rescuing with their hearts instead of their brains. Not only is it a disgusting waste of funds...it's beyond cruel. And the fools can't even see their own cruelty...too busy patting themselves on the backs over how wonderful they are I supppose. :no:

[MistyBlue]

Huh, looks like the rescue took down Two Socks' page. Apparently they're not getting the "Oh you guys are soooooo wonderful" responses they were hoping for.
Since they have enough personal fortitude to put the page down, let's hope they have enough emotional care to do the same for that poor poor horse.
Morons.
Dearest Supporter of RVHR and Two Socks due to the enormous amount of emails and posting about Two Socks we have removed his page. To give us the opportunity as his caregivers to do what is best for him. If you would like to be updated on how he is and what we decide to do for him after he is seen again by those who are involved in his care please email us at update@rvhr.com (update@rvhr.com). We will be glad to keep you updated.

"Dearest supporter" my foot...emotional asshats. Children running a rescue.

[Marli]

Calling this a learning experience isn't exactly a good thing either. It's not like this is a horse owned by someone with a bottomless wallet and is being cared for in a top horspital facility.
Poor old horse...it just looks miserable. It's ridiculous when humans say things like, "He'll tell me when it's time to give up."
No, he won't. This isn't Disney, horses don't talk. No, he doesn;t talk with his eyes either. The problem with those sentiments are the way each human "reads" the body language or look in a horse's eyes. Many do it through emotion, which is for dingbats.
Horses are walking meals for other animals. They're genetically coded to NOT show weakness, they hide it as much as physically possible for them. By the time a horse "tells" someone it's time to give up, that horse is in such pain it can no longer hide it.
They've had the horse since May of this year. Looking at it's body condition (lack of a foot aside) it's emaciated. That horse looks like a 1 to me. 3.5 months in a rescue and it's a 1? :eek:
That horse gave up eating...if that's not a sign it's time to let it go, I don't know what is.
Because if that horse was eating, it wouldn't be THAT skinny. It couldn't have been much skinnier when they got it 3.5 months ago, another 50 lbs off that horse and it would have died. So either they got the horse that damned skinny and it's not eating and gaining due to pain...or that horse has been losing the weight since they got it due to pain. Either way, it's in pain. A lot of it.
Shame on those folks...that's disgusting.
This is a flaming example of why there are some of us who refuse to donate to rescues who run rescuing with their hearts instead of their brains. Not only is it a disgusting waste of funds...it's beyond cruel. And the fools can't even see their own cruelty...too busy patting themselves on the backs over how wonderful they are I supppose. :no:

I agree with your sentiments MistyBlue, all counts. In my opinion, this horse shouldn't even be at the rescue, it should've been immediately rushed to an equine clinic for if nothing short of euthanasia- supportive assistanceand IV therapy.

[EiRide]

I posted a link over to an eventing group I am on which is area specific. A woman on that list has in the past supported the rescue and she was horrified by the situation with Two Socks and sent over a blistering email to the president of the group; she said if she gets no response she will follow up more personally. She's a tough cookie and can certainly bring some local pressure to bear, including withdrawing what I am quite sure was significant economic support.

I see that the page is down this morning.

[Kolsch]

I'd like to know when this pic of him was taken- upon his arrival at RVHR?

http://www.rvhr.com/images/two%20socks/IMG_0105.JPG

[Fantastic]

I am infuriated, sickened, saddened, and beside myself that a "rescue" would allow a horse to suffer in such a way. So, I just emailed this Roanoke TV Station and sent them the photos of the suffering:mad::mad::mad:: http://www.wdbj7.com/Global/category.asp?C=58568&nav=menu368_9

Here is the email address if anyone is interested: news@wbdj7.com

To Whom It May Concern:



Are you aware of the cruelty and suffering going on at one of your local animal rescues? Please, please, please investigate this inhumane "horse rescue" and SHUT THEM DOWN! Roanoke Valley Horse Rescue has since removed the story and pictures documenting the suffering of "Two Socks". To their chagrin, I saved all of the cruelty pictures on my computer, so here they are! They allowed this horse to stand on his stumb of bone in manure without bandages (see pictures)! These idiots even lead the horse on his stumb out of his stall to the grass so that they could get pictures! What sort of rescue would deliberately lead a horse on a stump of bone and make him suffer by walking? This horse rescue is actually asking for donations for adult sized diapers for the bottom of the horse's foot! What, they can't even afford to purchase their own bandages and supplies?!? Shut them down! Shut them down! Shut them down!

http://www.rvhr.com/



This horrific story is being discussed on international forum for the publication, The Chronicle of The Horse, here:

http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=221268



You can see a picture of the bottom of the suffering horse's foot on this international Horse Shoers or Farriers forum here:

http://www.horseshoes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10949



By the way, I am located 3,000 miles away on the West Coast, so I cannot personally go Roanoak Valley Horse Rescue to protest their cruetly. I draw this horrific story to your attention in hopes of your investigtive reporting leading to shut down of this "rescue".



Sincerely,

[Fantastic]

That M.F. rescue (mother - you fill in the rest) took down the photos and story from their website, but I have them saved on my computer as evidence. Can someone please help me so that I can post some of them here?

[Kolsch]

They've taken them down, but not completely. I found a few- save them to your photobucket if you like.

http://www.rvhr.com/images/two%20socks/IMG_2873.JPG
http://www.rvhr.com/images/two%20socks/IMG_2870.JPG
http://www.rvhr.com/images/two%20socks/IMG_2872.JPG
http://www.rvhr.com/images/two%20socks/IMG_2875.JPG

[Fantastic]

May 11, 2009 - excellent body condition and 4 hooves
http://www.rvhr.com/images/two%20socks/IMG_0105.JPG

Aug 24, 2009: injury found
http://www.rvhr.com/images/two%20socks/IMG_2801.JPG
http://www.rvhr.com/images/two%20socks/IMG_2846.JPG
http://www.rvhr.com/images/two%20socks/IMG_2848.JPG

Aug 24, they lead him from his stall out onto the grass for pictures?!!:
http://www.rvhr.com/images/two%20socks/IMG_2851.JPG
http://www.rvhr.com/images/two%20socks/IMG_2853.JPG
http://www.rvhr.com/images/two%20socks/IMG_2857.JPG

Look how his body condition has deteriorates since May: http://www.rvhr.com/images/two%20socks/IMG_2861.JPG

WTH? Standing in ace bandages and minimal padding?:http://www.rvhr.com/images/two%20socks/IMG_2863.JPG

Aug 28 - four days later, they lead him on his stump AGAIN out to the grass to get pictures:
http://www.rvhr.com/images/two%20socks/IMG_2870.JPG
http://www.rvhr.com/images/two%20socks/IMG_2872.JPG
http://www.rvhr.com/images/two%20socks/IMG_2873.JPG
http://www.rvhr.com/images/two%20socks/IMG_2875.JPG

Aug 29 - Look at the suffering in his face:
http://www.rvhr.com/images/two%20socks/face.jpg

[Kolsch]

Fantastic, how did you get a date of May 11th for the first photo?

[Fantastic]

They are so GUILTY! There index has the dates:

http://www.rvhr.com/images/two%20socks/

[Kolsch]

They are so GUILTY! There index has the dates:

http://www.rvhr.com/images/two%20socks/

You rock!

It shows loss of body condition for other horses as well
http://www.rvhr.com/images/Emerick/

[Fantastic]

Blaze:

July 20, 2008
http://www.rvhr.com/images/Blaze/blaze2.jpg

May 11, 2009
http://www.rvhr.com/images/Blaze/5-11-09.jpg

WTF? A year later in May he looks like THAT?

[EiRide]

Blaze:

July 20, 2008
http://www.rvhr.com/images/Blaze/blaze2.jpg

May 11, 2009
http://www.rvhr.com/images/Blaze/5-11-09.jpg

WTF? A year later in May he looks like THAT?

That does not bother me like poor Two Socks. Some old guys feel pretty good and look like hell no matter how well fed and cared for they are.

[matryoshka]

This is a more appropriate topic about irresponsible rescues than the other "Rescues Please Be Responcible" thread. Not that I'm a fan of Christy.

If the horse is in PA, doesn't the LAPS take an active role there? I know they do just north of me in SE PA. I wish we had LAPS here in MD. I've heard stories about how nasty they can be to owners, but honestly, it should be about the horse, not the people who are trying to "save" them. Does anybody here know the actual location of the horse to report it to LAPS?

[Fantastic]

matryoshka, Two Socks is at Roanoak Horse Rescue, which is in Roanoak, VA

[matryoshka]

Bummer.

Sorry to be so uninformed. I've got a weak stomach and am going on descriptions only. Did NOT want to view the pics.

I volunteered for a rescue for 3 years. It is tough work and hard to make the euth call (not as hard for me, but then I've had horses for three decades and have been there through all stages of their lives, including making the euth decision). Eventually my fellow BOD members and I disagreed too many times about when to put horses down, and I walked away. They are good people, but I just couldn't participate any more.

[Tiffani B]

Oh. My. God.

Someone PLEASE go put that horse out of his misery. :cry::no::(

And then shut that horrible place down! Their horses LOSE body conditioning when in their "care"!!! :mad:

[sidepasser]

What a poor pitiful horse - that is about the saddest thing I've seen in a long time.

[Wraper2]

http://www.rvhr.com/images/two%20socks/IMG_2873.JPG
http://www.rvhr.com/images/two%20socks/IMG_2875.JPG




Notice that in these two pictures he is laying flat on his side in the stall? Poor, Poor guy.

[Foxtrot's]

Does anybody know the SPCA (or similar authority) that would be in charge of inspecting this facility and removing horses that need to be put down? I would like to blast them an e-mail. Any locals?

[Cayusepapoose]

When I saw this on Horseshoes.com yesterday I looked up a map of Virginia. Then I looked up the closest SPCA to this hellhole and it appears to be the Richmond, VA SPCA so I emailed them and asked them to make this situation promptly "a priority". I hate that this is a weekend and I'm way up in Aldergrove, BC in Canada. I swear to GOD - if it was just around the corner from me, I might of made the "news" in my rage. I can't fathom where a human being has to be psychologically to think that any of this is RESCUE.

[Foxtrot's]

I hope you got the right SPCA - because I just e-mailed info@richmondspca.org and they will be getting a flood of enquiries. I just said I (and millions of others on the WWW) would like to know if a competent and authoratitive vet had been on the property and seen the horse.

[sidepasser]

Does anyone know if this place can't afford the euthanasia? I believe I read that they were asking for donations for diapers to wrap his hoof..

I don't know how one goes about that or even if anyone is interested, but this horse has been on my mind all day. I am willing to paypal a vet, but I don't think I want to paypal the rescue directly.

Can someone local ask them or find out if they would agree to that? To help end his obvious pain, I would gladly paypal a few dollars to help cover the vet bill.

[matryoshka]

The problem is that you have no control over how they spend the money you send. If they have such bad judgment as they are displaying toward Two Socks, just imagine how they might spend your money.

[ellebeaux]

Thank you all for speaking up about this.

[hopashore1]

Actually it's the Roanoke Valley SPCA:

http://www.rvspca.org/index.php

I was kind of willing to give them the benefit of the doubt in the beginning--we don't know any specifics, or heard their vet recommendations...but the information/time dates/quick deterioration of his condition have really appalled me. Just...wow. So glad that my experience with another rescue was so much more positive, for both myself and the horses.

[blackstallion2]

Please make your complaints to the Virginia Department of Agriculture:

State Veterinarian
RICHARD.WILKES@VDACS.VIRGINIA.GOV
804.692.0601 phone
804.371.2380 fax

[Foxtrot's]

Richmond va SPCA is NOT the right one - they e-mailed me back and knew nothing about the case. (But they could have looked it up and passed on the info, couldn't they?)

I'll re-try the Roanoak one.

[matryoshka]

God bless you.

[Foxtrot's]

The SPCA, tv, Department of Ag., and the 'rescue' organization are probably overwhelmed by now with e-mails!

On that note: they are certified by Independent Charties of America. Who the heck are they?

I actually think that most of the rescue people are very good hearted in a soppy sort of way and truly do have good intentions and soft hearts. I just think they are
not educated or knowledgeable and have a misguided view of euthenasia where absolutely nothing is ever, ever put down under any circumstances. Or they use the horse to soften up potential doners.

[Hampton Bay]

OK, if y'all are going to be emailing authorites about this, please spell the name of the city correctly. Its ROANOKE. Let's not give those in charge any more reason to think we are all crazy horse people.

[blackstallion2]

Neither the SPCA, the Humane Society or the rescues have any authority in Virginia. Only local animal control and VDACS (Virginia Dept. of Agriculture and Consumer Services). I doubt complaining to the SPCA gets anything done ... been there and done that.

[sidepasser]

The problem is that you have no control over how they spend the money you send. If they have such bad judgment as they are displaying toward Two Socks, just imagine how they might spend your money.

I was thinking of paypaling the vet directly, not the rescue. I simply cannot get this poor horse out of my mind today. I am no bleeding heart "OMG" person, but this poor horse makes me want to reach out and contribute to ease his suffering directly to the vet.

I did send an email to the obviously wrong site, will send a fax to the State Vet and also to the correct site. Even if the horse is being treated, it seems to me that it should be at a vet horsepital (like New Bolton) and get it off that hoof. I can't imagine the pain it must be in with that bone exposed like that.

I have had a lot of horses in my forty years of ownership, and have seen a lot of horrible things, but nothing like this. Maybe I've been sheltered but I don't think so. Most caring owners would either put the horse down or transport it to a center where it could be treated in a sling. He looked like such a nice horse in May, good condition and if you notice the condition in the Aug. 24th picture, he has gotten skinny and this was the DAY of the supposed accident. A horse just doesn't lose condition to that extent on the same day as an injury. He looks like he had been losing condition all along the summer and the injury has compounded his weight loss.

I guess I should just accept it for what it is - a horse in a rescue that needs help and/or rescue. I cannot imagine a rescue putting a horse through that, now an asshat owner, yes..but a rescue? No. I guess that is what makes this harder to understand. Most rescues that I know of would have had the vet out and had the horse put down, especially at that age.

I give up understanding and will continue to be thankful for my LOCAL rescue that seems to put common sense above dollars and cents.

[SFrost]

I suggest that someone look up the local authorities in that area. it would be in their jurisdiction.

Unfortunately,the local police may not be able to do anything. They are feeding and providing the horse medical care no matter horse terrible the care may be. It isn't up to us to decide what is appropriate for that horse. I *think* that as long as the animal is under the care of a vet and is being fed there is not much that can be done.

My above paragraph is strictly speaking from a legal stand point. I am in VA however I do not know the animal cruelty laws here. In AL where I worked in the legal field what I stated above was usually how the police handled cruelty situations.

My personal opinion...they are terrible and should never be let near a horse. How terrible that the poor horse is in so much pain. There are no words to describe how wrong what they are doing to him is. Ugh.

[Vitriolic]

I emailed and was informed that the farrier could not make it out today, but will be there tomorrow. I will get updated again after the farrier assesses him. Isn't the farrier redundant at this point? Where is the guy with the needle?

[blackstallion2]

I think what riles me most is not the legality of the situation, but absolutely the exploitation of this poor suffering animal at the hands of his own rescuers? WTF :confused:

The homepage now says they'll email updates about Two Socks to his supporters. Here's my email to them: If this horse has been in your care since May, it's truly sad that you would exploit his suffering for more donations. The pictures illustrate horrendous neglect and failure to provide emegency veterinary care, as he clearly belongs in a hospital, not somebody's backyard. If you've no intention to provide the extraordinary measures it will take to alleviate his suffering, please do the only kind thing left for him and promptly and humanely euthanize him.

[marta]

i just heard that some doberman rescue has been soliciting $ for a dog that needed a leg amputation (he chewed it off b/c a chain he was tied out with in the yard wrapped around the leg and the owners obviously didn't care enough to check on him). thousands of dollars later they got themselves a 3 legged doberman. wonder how many dogs could have been saved with that $?

[blackstallion2]

Knew I could find this, just took a few minutes. Virginia's State Veterinarian:

RICHARD.WILKES@VDACS.VIRGINIA.GOV

If those of you with the pictures save could email them, a picture is worth a thousand words.

[Fantastic]

Email, letter sent to the Roanoke TV station, and pictures of the horrific suffering have been sent to Dr. Richard Wilkes.

Thank you so much for posting his email link!

Fantastic

[Seven-up]

I emailed and was informed that the farrier could not make it out today, but will be there tomorrow. I will get updated again after the farrier assesses him. Isn't the farrier redundant at this point? Where is the guy with the needle?


No kidding. He doesn't have a hoof. What could a farrier possibly do except slap them upside the head and tell them to put the damn horse down?

I really get the feeling (both from your quote above and from their website) that they're trying to treat this themselves. "Farrier couldn't make it out today, but will be there tomorrow"? WTF is the farrier working on that is top priority over that? Something like that should have a vet out there treating it every freaking day. Poor thing probably hasn't been seen by a vet since before his f*cking foot fell off. Crackheads.

That is some twisted shit right there.:no:

[dressagetraks]

My God.

I have a REALLY strong stomach. I've often sat discussing extreme report details with Mom while eating a meal without thinking twice - we were both medical transcriptionists. But those pictures make me sick.

Emailing the state vet and all others. This "rescue" should be shut down.

That poor horse.

[equineelders]

No kidding. He doesn't have a hoof. What could a farrier possibly do except slap them upside the head and tell them to put the damn horse down?

This is worse than "he doesn't have a hoof," if that's possible. According to some discussion by foot care pros on other forums, the bone above the coffin bone appears to have dropped down between the navicular and coffin bones. For that to happen, tendons would have detached. This is no longer a case of "just" growing a new hoof. It sounds more like orthopedic reconstruction.

Please, Pat..........let him go. Please. Saying he is in no pain and "walking fine" is complete denial of the circumstances.

****GRAPHIC**** if you haven't seen the actual photos of the foot and don't want to, don't visit these links:

http://www.horsegroomingsupplies.com/horse-forums/horse-steps-out-of-hoof-289616-10.html (this one has overlay diagrams of where the bones are now)

http://www.horseshoes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10949

[Liberty]

...Please, Pat..........let him go. Please. Saying he is in no pain and "walking fine" is complete denial of the circumstances.


Totally agree. I went through those other links last night that you just posted, and wow, just wow. :cry:

I am also REALLY concerned about the loss in weight of Two Socks as well as others, including lack of weight gain altogether. I did find out with a Google search that Two Socks has no teeth, but still, there are ways around that with appropriate types of feed. He really looked great back in May.
:no:

[Liberty]

They've changed their homepage and given an update on Two Socks:
http://www.rvhr.com/
:no:

[equineartworks]

So they are going to just let this poor thing suffer so they can "hope" he will regrow the hoof and, if not, he gets a prosthetic limb? If they have only gotten $130 toward his "expert care" (and I'm sorry..but I don't know a single vet or farrier that would allow this horrible scam to continue) how do they expect to afford a prosthetic limb? Do rescue horses have health insurance??!?!?? If htey do, can someone please give me the info so I can sign up!?!?!?

eta...a human prosthetic limb starts at around $10K. I would guess that the surgery to remove the legs would be a $5k minimum.

[rcloisonne]

They've changed their homepage and given an update on Two Socks:
http://www.rvhr.com/
:no:
Still no mention of veterinary care???!!!!!!!! Only the "expert" farrier who can't even show up????!!!!!!! Not that there's a damn thing a farrier could do for this except hit these cheap morons on the side of the head with a rasp and/or report them to the authorities for cruelty and neglect. :no: :cry:

[Seven-up]

They've changed their homepage and given an update on Two Socks:
http://www.rvhr.com/
:no:

A prosthetic limb??? He's 25, for cryin' out loud. And still no mention of a vet. Just "caregivers." Delusional.

[equineelders]

They've changed their homepage and given an update on Two Socks:
http://www.rvhr.com/
:no:

" Please be advised that he is being monitored by our caregivers and our expert farrier."

Please tell me the vet (whose name is no longer listed on the web site) is in on the monitoring as well. (+ I thought the farrier couldn't get there till today.)

Ok, I'm away from this for a while. :mad:

[Liberty]

" Please be advised that he is being monitored by our caregivers and our expert farrier."

Please tell me the vet (whose name is no longer listed on the web site) is in on the monitoring as well...

Yeah, I noticed the vet's name (Tanya Hatchett) disappeared from their "Board of Directors" webpage too. That could be due to a number of reasons, including maybe her assessment that Two Socks should be euthed. I just hope it doesn't mean that Two Socks is no longer getting ANY vet care.

I am getting madder by the moment and need to get outside and get some peace and quiet with my horses.

[Seven-up]

How could you even medicate a horse enough to keep him "pain-free" if the bones in his foot are as mangled as those photos with the drawings suggest? I am astounded.

[dwblover]

Actually, if there is no longer a vet working on the case, that could be a good thing. Denying a horse with an obvious injury veterinary treatment is grounds for a horse to be removed by animal control. So the fact that the vet is no longer overseeing the care of the horse could mean the horse leaves the grounds of these delusional "caretakers". Was anyone able to get the number to the actual animal control department in that area?

[kookicat]

Wow, just wow. Poor horse. :cry:

[Dune]

Those people are freakin' pyschos!!!!! :mad: Poor, poor horse. Wow. :cry:

[kookicat]

It's also been posted here:

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=4753497&page=0&vc=1#Post4753497

[Horsegal984]

Roanoke Valley Animal Control

animalcontrol@rcacp.org(put Hardy, VA 24101 in the message so they an contact the correct officers)
mail@rcacp.org
540-344-4922

I too would really like to know why they vet has been removed from their website. I suspect either she requested to no longer be associated with them, or they got pissed because she wouldn't agree to treat him. This whole situation is appalling, and I hope like hell that somebody can bring it to an end for those poor horses.

Katherine
Vet Tech

[Cayusepapoose]

Personally, at the back end of all this; someone turned this 25 yr old horse over to them because they could not afford to keep him any longer. Out of trust, love...he was in good physical shape when he arrived even though he had "lameness" issues. I wonder if the person that entrusted this soul to these nuts is aware of what's going on now. If it were me it would probably be fatally heartbreaking.

[Ajierene]

Totally agree. I went through those other links last night that you just posted, and wow, just wow. :cry:

I am also REALLY concerned about the loss in weight of Two Socks as well as others, including lack of weight gain altogether. I did find out with a Google search that Two Socks has no teeth, but still, there are ways around that with appropriate types of feed. He really looked great back in May.
:no:

This is why I rarely support rescues! No teeth?!? OK, I have known people who owned elderly horses and ponies with no teeth and with care, they keep weight on just fine. These are usually older school horses, retired after years of service - just toting around a few rank beginners every week.

BUT...BUT....

These horses take extra care and extra money. You are a rescue - you are expected to take horses out of bad conditions and 'make it better' - that means euthanize when necessary to prevent horses from going to bad conditions.

An older horse, with no teeth would get about a month in my rescue to see if someone wants a companion horse that requires extra care. Two Socks (from his first picture) looks like he could at least do light trail riding, which helps, but the amount of riding horses out there that are much easier keepers means Two Socks would be way down on the list. It would have been better to euthanize him after the first month (which would also be before the injury, or just when the injury would be found), rather than wait for him to get this bad.

I know people do not like the whole euthanasia thing, but the money spent on his care could have probably gotten at least two more horses that would have had a better chance and cost the rescue less money, as well as brought some money in, through adoption fees, to get more horses.

I know rescues usually mean well and one fairly local one does irritate me because they keep taking in pasture pets that they cannot rehome, but they would see more of my money/time if they were more fiscally responsible.

[Ajierene]

Personally, at the back end of all this; someone turned this 25 yr old horse over to them because they could not afford to keep him any longer. Out of trust, love...he was in good physical shape when he arrived even though he had "lameness" issues. I wonder if the person that entrusted this soul to these nuts is aware of what's going on now. If it were me it would probably be fatally heartbreaking.

This is my other problem - why didn't these people scrape up the money to euthanize their companion rather than risk him ending up in a bad situation?

I'm not calling these people out, per se, but I see this A LOT!

Go to the racing forum and read the thread about euthanizing racehorses and how many trainers 'donate' horses that need to be euthanized, rather than doing the deed themselves.

[Horsegal984]

This is my other problem - why didn't these people scrape up the money to euthanize their companion rather than risk him ending up in a bad situation?

I'm not calling these people out, per se, but I see this A LOT!

Go to the racing forum and read the thread about euthanizing racehorses and how many trainers 'donate' horses that need to be euthanized, rather than doing the deed themselves.

I do hope that whoever owned him before this sham of a rescue sees what has happened to him, because they would probably be THE best thing that could happen for making a case against the rescue. If they can be found and come forward I think they could have a whole lot to do with the difference between them being shut down, and them being shut down and facing criminal charges.

I will refrain from passing judgement on the owners, because he appears to have been a reasonably healthy rehomable horse. They may have been a situation where they lost jobs and their house, and were out of time to find him a new home. They obviously found him a new living situation, as I'm sure this rescue promised to take good care of him and rehome him. Unfortunatly for him the rescue is a sham, and have caused him enormous amounts of suffering and pain at their hands.

I do agree with you tho, all too often we see horses that should have been put down, but the owners couldn't do it, and instead they dump them or a rescue, or worse yet, at auction.

Katherine
Vet Tech

[Appassionato]

Personally, at the back end of all this; someone turned this 25 yr old horse over to them because they could not afford to keep him any longer. Out of trust, love...he was in good physical shape when he arrived even though he had "lameness" issues. I wonder if the person that entrusted this soul to these nuts is aware of what's going on now. If it were me it would probably be fatally heartbreaking.

That has been on my mind as well.

As Ajierene mentioned, I do get the whole euthanasia thing and in this case I think it would have been much kinder. I was lucky with my first older horse in that she was sound enough to still hop over 2' fencing and could carry any beginner safely. She knew voice commands and always took the instructors word first, which was a big plus in the rehabilitative riding center she spent her last years at. Again, I was lucky. Those times have come and gone.

[MVR]

I have been emailing regarding this situation since Friday. SPCA has no investigative authority in VA. They have given me the run around directed to the Roanoke Animal Control. Guess what? The principles in this org are listed as animal control officers in that county!!!! (Franklin) Somehow I doubt anything will get done through them:cry:

Please email "Ann Church" <achurch@hsus.org> She is the director for the HSUS VA.

[Hampton Bay]

Has anyone with the pictures saved emailed the sponsors? The webpage says they have had donations of blankets and feed tubs from some big companies.

That totally sucks that the people in the organization are animal control officers! That's probably how they ended up with the horses in the first place.

[Foxtrot's]

Regional Center for Animal Control and Protection (ajennings@rcacp.org - Amanda Jennings) has been notified by the Roanoke SPCA who neatly pass the buck by saying they are not able to handle the investigations. And that the Animal Control for the area (who are they?) have to be contacted.

This has become a world wide issue. Media is your friend.

[Horsegal984]

As best as I can find, Hardy(the city RVHR is in) is actually in Bedford County. I cannot find a e-mail address, but the phone number there is 540-586-7690, normal buisness hours.

If the heads of the rescue really are animal control officers I suspect that the sheriff's office might be more interested in the case, as usually the animal control division is a part of the sheriff's office,an elected position;)

*Also, USERL is in VA, they may be able to help contact people in power there, as well as making sure the investigation doesn't get sidelined because of the BOD being animal control officers. It pisses me off even more to think these people are in charge of protecting other innocent animals. Scary!

Katherine
Vet Tech

[JSwan]

This is my other problem - why didn't these people scrape up the money to euthanize their companion rather than risk him ending up in a bad situation?



It may be a case of the owner passing the buck (as you noted that happens a LOT), or an owner believing that the rescue had the resources and expertise to care for the horse, and the owner trusted them.

There are a LOT of rescues that are just as bad, even worse, than the homes from which they acquire their animals.

Some of these groups have extremely questionable ethics and a distorted view of reality.

It makes me sick.

[Foxtrot's]

This is what is so exasperating - nobody - not even the local authorities seem to know who is in charge or has any jurisdiction.

I'm from flippin' Canada - what do I know about the convoluted burocracies. But I fired off e-mails anyway. Like wasps round your picnic - cause a stir.

[blackstallion2]

ACOs in Virginia have to answer to the state veterinarian:

State Veterinarian
RICHARD.WILKES@VDACS.VIRGINIA.GOV
804.692.0601 phone
804.371.2380 fax

Where this horse is already in the the rescue's care, I am not sure any ACOs have visited it since May :no:

[JSwan]

Evidently they act as a shelter for horses - and in that case they also must report directly to the State Veterinarian.

In Virginia, all entities acting as animal shelters (pets and/or livestock), report to the State Veterinarian, and have annual reporting requirements.

As a nonprofit - complaints about their operations fall under the Virginia Department of Consumer Affairs.

As a shelter - their operations also fall under the office of the State Vet.

So - two agencies that have direct oversight over this organization, and two avenues for complaints - though a complaint involving animal welfare would most likely go to the State Vet's office.

The IRS has oversight of course but not for something like this.

A complaint about animal welfare can also be directed at the animal shelter that serves that county, though as folks noted there may be a conflict of interest. (or appearance of one).

If there is any evidence of collusion, the local state trooper barracks can be alerted. Doesn't appear to be any doo doo like that going on though - just looks like a rescue making really bad judgment calls.

There are a LOT of rescues that think their status gives them carte blanche - it's a free pass to do whatever they want. Their "love" for horses makes any action or decision justified.

Sounds like this may be one of those rescues.... :no: Or, just a good rescue/shelter that isn't making the best decision for this particular animal.

Also - it appears the President may be a Humane Investigator. That program was suspended years ago, but folks that held appointments were permitted to keep them. As such - she would be the person called to investigate a claim of abuse.

Interesting scenario, and very incestuous. She's got the ACO's on her board, she's the equine investigator, her spouse is the Vice-Pres...... it's like the fox watching the henhouse.

Odd how they got that seal - there aren't any financials available on their website. I'd like to see how they were able to qualify for it since it's such a tiny organization.

Here is the org's 2008 report to the State Vet:
http://www.virginia.gov/vdacs_ar/cgi-bin/Vdacs_search.cgi?link_select=facility&form=fac_select&fac_num=6753&year=2008

[rcloisonne]

I know people do not like the whole euthanasia thing, but the money spent on his care could have probably gotten at least two more horses that would have had a better chance and cost the rescue less money, as well as brought some money in, through adoption fees, to get more horses.
I don't see where a dime has been spent on his care. No vet has treated him and the farrier hasn't shown up yet (wonder why?). Heck, they can't even afford vet wrap and diapers.

This poor horse arrived in good weight and condition and is now a rack of bones? Yet another travesty of a "rescue" that needs to be banned from "rescuing" any more horses. Of course, that's unlikely to happen if they're also the local AC officers. WTH? :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Liberty]

If anyone knows, or is otherwise acquainted with, Lynn Jendrowski (a noted dressage trainer), s/he might want to get in touch with her to bring her up to speed with a rescue that she recently started supporting with her DVD sales:

Roanoke Valley Horse Rescue gets Help from Equine DVD

10$ of every internet sale of "Braiding Made Simple," an instructional DVD featuring USDF dressage champion Lynn Jendrowski, go to Roanoke Valley Horse Rescue 501-C3 charity.

For_Immediate_Release:

(Free-Press-Release.com) August 6, 2009 -- BLACKSBURG, VA. In a time when charities are seeing fewer and fewer financial donations, the Roanoke Valley Horse Rescue just got a shot in the arm from an independent film company which is giving 50 percent of their retail sales to the RVHR.

Horse Archer Productions has just released the first in what they hope will be a series of instructional DVDs for beginner and intermediate riders called “Braiding Made Simple.” The 45 minute DVD features step by step visual and spoken instruction for dressage, hunter, and French braiding styles.

The DVD is hosted by Lynn Jendrowski of Blacksburg, VA, a USDF gold, silver and bronze medalist with 30 years of experience and teaches riding skills professionally.

“Naturally, we wanted the DVD to help riders develop their skills,” said Jendrowski. “But when the opportunity arose to help horses as well, we were very excited.”

To help the RVHR, Horse Archer Productions has set up a special order box on the DVD website, http://www.theeducatedequestrian.com - The Educated Equestrian, the official website for the project.

For every $20 sale made from the front page of this website, $10 will go to the Roanoke Valley Horse Rescue to help fund the costs of running such an operation.

Jendrowski said she hopes the campaign does well and that animal lovers will of all sorts will think of a horse enthusiast who will want to know about this donation program.

“The Roanoke Valley Horse Rescue is so important to help horses in need,” said Jendrowski.

“We love horses and want to aid in the care of animals in need, she added. “I am glad to be a part in raising money for such a great cause.”

Link to above excerpts:
http://www.free-press-release.com/news-roanoke-valley-horse-rescue-gets-help-from-equine-dvd-1249583298.html

If no one else can get through to RVHR, maybe one of her supporters can. One can only hope, from the sounds of it. At least Ms. Jendrowski should be made aware of the situation.

[Cayusepapoose]

http://www.rvhr.com/
Today's update for "Twosocks". I hate that this is a weekend. This horse doesn't have the body condition to fight an infection; it takes up to a year to grow a new hoof; the rt. front is obviously not in any shape to support the horse no matter what; if they can't afford bandages/diapers - whose going to pay for the prosthetic leg (rediculous, he's 25 ferchristssake!) Someone has GRRRRRAciously donated $130 smackers and change for this unfortunate poster boy. I need a bucket...

[asb_own_me]

Can someone "adopt" him and have him euthanized?

[Foxtrot's]

I'd be glad to chip in.

[Cayusepapoose]

He's not on the adoption list but I've requested an email back from them regarding what the fee MIGHT be.

[JSwan]

How many of you have filed a complaint with the State Vet's office or ACO's?

The reason I ask is because what I'm seeing is a lot of OMG but I don't understand why y'all expect to happen. If there is a case of abuse or neglect - that rescue is the responding entity/shelter in that area (for equine cases).

It seems they have lost volunteers, does any BB member live close enough to see if she needs help? Even really great rescues are hurting for donations these days - and that part of the state is not wealthy at all. I'm not suggesting anyone give her money; only that I can't really tell what y'all want.

I'd feel more comfortable if I knew who the "experts" were.

ETA ..... the only COTH BB member I know that lives anywhere near there is Daydream Believer and it's got to be 2, maybe 3 hours away from her?

[Cayusepapoose]

I've emailed everybody I can think of short of Obama himself. My problem is I'm over 4800 kms away. It's pretty easy to ignore emails from "Bumhole, BC".

[Horsegal984]

I'm getting the story to my god-parents in Richmond, closest horse people I know. I'm hoping they might be able to get a little more done than me, since I'm farther away.

I have sent an e-mail to the state vet's office, since they do have to answer to him, and I'm hoping he follows up and doesn't just sweep this under the rug.

Katherine
Vet Tech

[JSwan]

I'm several hours away. But I don't work directly with any of the shelters in Franklin or Bedford so I feel kind of helpless. We've gotten dogs from that area.. but through other rescues. I think.

um um um.... They're a legit shelter in VA, and they're a legit nonprofit. With VA, their reporting is current. So at least there's that.

Guess at 8pm on a Sunday there isn't much that can be done. What I am hoping is that the horse is not in terrible pain and that he's receiving veterinary care.

I'll make some calls to the state vet in the am and see if there is a way to help the horse - I'd hate to go postal and find out there is more to the story - like he is under really good vet care or there is a good explanation. You never know. I wonder if he needed to be moved if he'd even be able to get on a trailer. Poor thing.

[Daydream Believer]

ETA ..... the only COTH BB member I know that lives anywhere near there is Daydream Believer and it's got to be 2, maybe 3 hours away from her?

Roanoke is quite a ways from me too...more like 4 hours...that's up in the mountains. I'm not sure that anyone just showing up there demanding the horse be euthanized is going to be made very welcome.

Surely someone from COTH is near Roanoke?

[JSwan]

Roanoke is quite a ways from me too...more like 4 hours...that's up in the mountains. I'm not sure that anyone just showing up there demanding the horse be euthanized is going to be made very welcome.

Surely someone from COTH is near Roanoke?

Argh - I thought that town was closer to the James River. Like you - when I think of Bedford and Franklin I think of mountains and moonshiners but I though part of it followed the river. (sorry - next time I'll look at a map)

You're the only person I could think of. I thought of LisaB and contacted her but she's up near me.

LexinVA is the only other person that might even know where Bedford county is. Oh wait..... he may be just the very person! I think he works with a rescue in Central/western VA. I'll send him a pm.

[blackstallion2]

I am in Va, but farther away than DB. I am in favor of allowing the state vet, board of directors, et al, a day to receive the complaints.

[LisaB]

There are a couple of people close the area that are aware of the situation and are acting upon it.

[Foxhound]

Bedford Couny is a couple of hours from Richmond.
Ironically, there is a VERY good vet in the area who is also an equine podiatrist. She's one of the world's best laminitis specialists, and I've seen her do wonders with horses (though probably none as bad as poor Two Socks). They could get an expert professional opinion on the prognosis for this horse, including how realistic it is to get him a prosthesis, if they would just get their act together.

[veebug22]

I don't think you can adopt then put down, because technically you don't "own" the horse. With the rescues I'm familiar with, you can't sell the horse or give them away, you have to give them back to the rescue, and they have to sign off on euthanasia. I have a friend (will remain anonymous since she sometimes posts here, and I think some of the people at the rescue might be on here) who adopted a horse from a rescue and found out later that it had ringbone. It was sound when received, but went downhill, and after x-rays, the vet determined it was advanced ringbone. The horse needed daily pain meds and in the winter could barely walk. She begged the rescue to put him down, but they refused, and took him back. It was devastating for her to see and know he was going to be in pain.

Dammit, I can't get any of the photos to work! It really bugs me when rescues do extreme things for horses like this and take that money away from the other horses who have good quality of life. Why not spend the money on the horses who have plenty of years left? A prosthetic limb for this horse? I don't think I know any horse owners even with money to burn that would do a prosthetic limb for their personal horse, even if it guaranteed the horse mobility and he could be pain-free, which it sounds like the prosthetic limb idea in this case is laughable.

[JSwan]

There are a couple of people close the area that are aware of the situation and are acting upon it.


Great news, LisaB. Thanks. :)

[asb_own_me]

How can they word contracts with such control that an animal cannot be euthanized by the recommendation of the attending veterinarian? I'd hazard a guess that they don't have the money to fight someone in court over that....so if a horse in that condition were in my care, it would be euthanized AS IT CLEARLY NEEDED TO BE and the @sshats from this "rescue" can go pack sand.

[Lazy Palomino Hunter]

They pulled all the pictures down- did anyone happen to save them? I can't even imagine what his feet must look like to cause this kind of an uproar.

Poor guy- why don't some people understand that there are much worse things than a humane death?

[rcloisonne]

It really bugs me when rescues do extreme things for horses like this and take that money away from the other horses who have good quality of life. Why not spend the money on the horses who have plenty of years left? A prosthetic limb for this horse? I don't think I know any horse owners even with money to burn that would do a prosthetic limb for their personal horse, even if it guaranteed the horse mobility and he could be pain-free, which it sounds like the prosthetic limb idea in this case is laughable.
I don't get the impression these folks are spending a lot, if anything, on this horse. That $130 donation won't go far. Looks like they haven't even been feeding the poor thing since they got him in May.

They're cacking about prosthetics but dollars to doughnuts they have no clue how much that would cost nor the lifetime of care and attention a prosthetic would require on a daily basis. They're either ignorant or delusional or both.

There's no mention of even having a vet out though it appears from earlier photos (now removed) P2 had dropped into the same plane as P3. Both bones are exposed and on the ground. :dead:

The only "expert" mentioned thus far is a farrier who also has yet to make an appearance. Or maybe he showed up yesterday????

[equineelders]

I don't think you can adopt then put down, because technically you don't "own" the horse. With the rescues I'm familiar with, you can't sell the horse or give them away, you have to give them back to the rescue, and they have to sign off on euthanasia.

That's not true with all rescues. The policy varies greatly from one organization to the next. This particular rescue apparently only requires notification when a horse has been euthanized or dies. (Unless the prior clause concerning "major medical procedures" also applies to euthanasia, but that whole phrase is very subjective. What's major to me may not be major to my neighbor, so I don't know how it could be enforced.)

http://www.rvhr.com/caregiver.shtml
If the horse becomes sick or lame, You agree to provide prompt and adequate medical care and treatment by a certified equine veterinarian.

If at anytime the placed horses should come to need any major medical procedures the procedure must be approved by the RVHR Board of Directors prior to being performed.

Upon death of the horse, notification is required immediately with a veterinarian's statement/cause of death. If the horse suffers a major injury or medical problem, the veterinarian must also report this

That said, however, I doubt they would adopt this horse out to anyone whose sole purpose is to euthanize him.

[LexInVA]

I don't even know where to begin on any of this other than to say that this is only happening because the wrong kind of people are running rescues these days. Namely, those who identify themselves as extreme animal lovers and have a strong psychological need to reinforce their otherwise low self-esteem and validate their dysfunctional existence by saving animals. Unfortunately, the way they choose to do things is now SOP for many rescue organizations who have either been established or gradually taken over by such folks and it always results in serious problems when things need to be done and hard decisions made. Those rescues become little more than legally established self-righteous hoarders in practice despite an outward appearance of good intentions to "save them all". Having seen the cold and harsh reality of this for myself, I can no longer support animal rescue organizations solely on the principle of the concept. Enough is enough.

[caffeinated]

They pulled all the pictures down- did anyone happen to save them? I can't even imagine what his feet must look like to cause this kind of an uproar.

I have some screencaps on my computer but didn't save the pictures individually, so they're hard to see. Essentially, pictures posted in may show a horse in good condition.

The most recent pictures show a BCS of around 1 or 1.5. Lots of bones sticking out. Swollen legs, and literally no hoof on one foot.

Bone is exposed, and it's just disgusting. I can't even imagine what that poor horse is feeling.

[arabhorse2]

Didn't see the pictures but I know who these people are.

I've met the woman in charge and she's a very much, 'save them at all costs' type of person.

Bedford is rural, but it's by no means a majorly backwards area.

LisaB, I'm glad someone's acting on the situation. I didn't see this post until today (08/31/09), because I don't have the 'net at home.

I'm within 1 1/2 hours of Roanoke from my home.

[JSwan]

I've met the woman in charge and she's a very much, 'save them at all costs' type of person.


Oh sh**. I was hoping this was just a misunderstanding and was trying not to overreact.

Do you realize this nut is the official animal shelter (livestock) and the humane investigator for that area?

WTF? Crazy nutjobs with law enforcement authority? If she doesn't think what she's doing is cruel - God knows what she's been doing with her investigator badge.

I'm gobsmacked. The way this states shelter and rescue system works is absolutely appalling.

[equineelders]

Do you realize this nut is the official animal shelter (livestock) and the humane investigator for that area?

WTF? Crazy nutjobs with law enforcement authority? If she doesn't think what she's doing is cruel - God knows what she's been doing with her investigator badge.


I'm fairly certain she has no law enforcement authority. Several years ago, she took a course like the ones offered by HSUS or USERL to train people in investigation. That in no way gave her any authority on the county or state level. At the time she talked about how it would allow her to ride along with AC or Sheriff's Deputies if needed, but that's about it, as far as I know.

[rcloisonne]

I know it's still early but has anyone heard back form the state vet yet?

[Fantastic]

:cry::cry:Please be advised that he is being monitored by our caregivers and our expert farrier. Every horse that comes to us is given a chance. Two Socks is eating well and gets around his private paddock. :cry::cry:


They are allowing Two Socks to walk around his paddock on his stub of a leg without a hoof!

[JLMet]

I sent out a bunch of emails and I HAVE THE PICTURES SAVED FULL SIZE. So if anyone needs them, should I post on photobucket? This rescue is too far from me, but it's tempting to go there with a shotgun for this poor boy. I can't believe they are letting him walk around. He needs a sling! If they aren't willing to euthanize him than they need to do what is needed to treat him successfully. I wish there was a way to find out who the original owner was.

[LexInVA]

They say they are going to have the horse evaluated for treatment/rehab and if neither one is a plausible option, he will be put down. I don't know what the time frame on any of that is but I would say it's probably going to drag out for some time if they are awaiting a specialist or someone whose knowledge is above the average large animal vet in that area.

[arabhorse2]

No JSwan, you're not overreacting, nor is it a misunderstanding.

The rescue is run primarily by this woman, her son, and his SO. Don't know if the son and SO have 'real' jobs, but I know the mother doesn't.

My farrier is the 'official' farrier for AC in my county, but I don't know who it is in Bedford.

I also don't know what vet this rescue uses, but I can't imagine any of the decent ones I know in the area who would recommend trying to save this horse, if his injuries are as horrific as they sound.

Believe it or not, there are several fantastic hoof specialists in the area, but they're very pricey (no surprise). I can't imagine this rescue would be able to come up with the mounds of money necessary to send this horse to the local in-house treatment center.

[SarahKing]

If anyone hasn't seen the pictures and wants to, Cathy from Fugly Horse of the Day saved them and has reposted them on her blog. www.fuglyblog.com (Second post down)

[MVR]

I have called 3 different animal control agencies and the latest is I'm told its in Botetourt County. I have an officer supposed to call me back shortly.

No word form the state vet yet, or USERL. Ann Church the HSUS Director VA is on vacation until after Labor Day.

Here is contact info on the AC where Hardy SUPPOSEDLY is:
http://www.co.botetourt.va.us/government/phonelist.php

[equineelders]

Hardy is in Bedford County. (Although the town is very close to the Franklin Co line........if things word there like they do here, its possible a Hardy address could be in Franklin Co)
Bedford Co AC 540-586-7690

http://www.bedfordcountysheriff.org/2008/Images/PDFs%20and%20DOCs/BCSO%20PhoneList.pdf

[arabhorse2]

The rescue is in Hardy, VA which is Bedford county, not Boutetort, as has already been stated.

The Roanoke Valley and city of Roanoke are in Boutetort, but the rescue is not.

[Fantastic]

Hi. Here are the photos that I've uploaded to Photobucket. I hope this works!



http://s822.photobucket.com/albums/zz150/ImaHorseLover/

[Fantastic]

Good! Now the whole world can come here to see how these idiots have "cared" for Two Socks!:mad:

[arabhorse2]

Omigawd, those pictures are even more horrific than I thought! :eek:

What horrible, awful people to let that poor animal suffer like that. :mad: :no:

[LexInVA]

Does anyone know what the "timeline" is on this particular horse?

[Lazy Palomino Hunter]

O. M. G.

I cannot believe there is ANYONE who thinks that this horse should not be euthanized. This woman should not even own animals, let alone be running a rescue! And how on earth did he lose much weight in 4 1/2 months? Is she not feeding ANYTHING? Or do we think he's dropped all the weight as a result of the hoof??

Poor horse. I hope someone finds a way to help him cross the rainbow bridge, sooner rather than later. :(

[rcloisonne]

I also don't know what vet this rescue uses, but I can't imagine any of the decent ones I know in the area who would recommend trying to save this horse, if his injuries are as horrific as they sound.
There was a vet on their BOD (Tanya Hatchett) but her name has been very recently removed. Why? She no longer wants to associate with these people? Perhaps someone can give Dr. Hatchett a call?

And yes, the injuries are horrific. Far worse the just losing the entire hoof capsule, sole and bars (which would have been bad enough). Saved pictures of the hoof on page 10, scroll down:

http://www.horsegroomingsupplies.com/horse-forums/horse-steps-out-of-hoof-289616-10.html

The solar view pic was up on horseshoes.com and all agreed P2, P3 and the navicular bone are all exposed and in the same plane. This is a fatal injury. No if's and's or but's.

[MVR]

The rescue is in Hardy, VA which is Bedford county, not Boutetort, as has already been stated.

The Roanoke Valley and city of Roanoke are in Boutetort, but the rescue is not.

I finally got a sheriff in Botetourt who was helpful tho its out of his jurisdiction and he can't go, he had me email him the info/pics so he can follow up. Its DEFINITELY in Franklin Co. I called the AC there and she did say an officer would be sent out. Fingers crossed! Here is the Franklin Co contact info-phone number is 540-483-7440 or visit www.franklincountyva.gov/

[ChocoMare]

Ok, just read through all pages/posts. I'm gobsmacked :eek:

PUT THE FLIPPIN' HORSE FIRST! :mad: - Let him have a bucket full of yummies and then the pink shot.

I pray that this happens for this boy today! :cry:

[Fantastic]

So, he was fine May 11, 2009. Body score 5-6?

Three months later, his body score is about a 1-2, and he only has 3 hooves!


:cry::mad::cry::mad::cry:

[LexInVA]

So, if I am interpreting what is said here correctly, this horse has been with them for a few months now and it's current condition is what is shown in the photos?

[Fantastic]

Patricia L. Muncy

She listed him here for $150. I'm trying to find the date she listed him.

http://www.equineadoptionnetwork.com/details.php?id=112

[Liberty]

Hi. Here are the photos that I've uploaded to Photobucket. I hope this works!

http://s822.photobucket.com/albums/zz150/ImaHorseLover/

You might want to add this one (Two Socks when he arrived at RVHR back in May):
http://home.comcast.net/~wec6/photos/2Socks_5-11-09.jpg

WTH happened to him? If it's something metabolical like insulin resistance, his alleged 4x/day feedings could be exacerbating an already precarious situation if they're feeding him with no consideration to sugars/starches. :(

[Fantastic]

Oh look. She has 14 horses listed here. None of them look to be in very good condition:

http://www.equineadoptionnetwork.com/user_listings.php?id=21

[arabhorse2]

Thank you, MVR.

I guess Hardy is one of those places just over the county line, because it's listed as being in Bedford county.

Dr. Hatchett is out of Salem, VA. I wonder when she disassociated herself with RVHR?

If you look at that pinto gelding on the current RVHR adoption pages, he also has a bad looking leg injury. WTF is going on at that place?

[Liberty]

On the Google cached page of www.rvhr.com/twosocks.shtml it states Two Socks arrived at RVHR on May 10, 2009.

[Lazy Palomino Hunter]

Patricia L. Muncy

She listed him here for $150. I'm trying to find the date she listed him.

http://www.equineadoptionnetwork.com/details.php?id=112


Oh how cute. On his wish list are "grain and feed."

No kidding.

She also has him listed as chestnut.

Of course, I suppose those are the least of his problems now.

[Fantastic]

check this out:About Roanoke Valley Horse Rescue, Inc.
Roanoke Valley Horse Rescue, RVHR, founded in 2002, evolved out of the need in our community for assistance with horses being found in undesirable situations. RVHR is comprised of a serving Board of Directors who volunteer their time to this effort and are joined by volunteers in our community who may also become members of our organization. RVHR is dedicated to educating the public on these issues and how they can be avoided as well as providing assistance to horse owners in our area that are dealing with a similar situation. Other efforts include providing educational clinics on horsemanship and horse care in general for our horse community. We also provide a refuge at our facility for horses that are in need due to starvation or neglect as well as helping these horses find new loving and suitable homes where they shall be watched over by RVHR for the rest of their lives.

[Fantastic]

OMG!

Here's a video of Two Socks looking fabulous and healthy from Channel 10, WSPL:


http://www2.wsls.com/sls/news/local/article/economy_hits_horse_owners_and_rescue_group/35396/

[Fantastic]

The film clip says that Two Socks was from Viginia Beach, and his owner had lost his job.

Anyone from that area?

[MVR]

Thank you, MVR.

I guess Hardy is one of those places just over the county line, because it's listed as being in Bedford county.

Dr. Hatchett is out of Salem, VA. I wonder when she disassociated herself with RVHR?

If you look at that pinto gelding on the current RVHR adoption pages, he also has a bad looking leg injury. WTF is going on at that place?

I don't know arabhorse, but I'm trying my best to find out. I will keep everyone posted on my progress. I am hoping to hear back from the Sate Vet this morning, if anyone does, can you let me know?

[Liberty]

OMG!

Here's a video of Two Socks looking fabulous and healthy from Channel 10, WSPL:

http://www2.wsls.com/sls/news/local/article/economy_hits_horse_owners_and_rescue_group/35396/

Yep, he sure looked great just a scant 3.5 months ago. I sure hope his former owner (who is said to have lost his/her job, home, etc.) doesn't get wind of what happened, and is still happening. :cry:

ETA: then again, if I were TS's former owner, I'd damn sure want to know!

[LexInVA]

How did the horse get all the way over there from VA Beach?

[Fantastic]

YEAH! I just called the newsroom at WSLS and let them have an earfull about Patricia Muncy and Roanoke Valley Horse Rescue!!

I am forwarding the letter I posted earlier to several people there!

[ReSomething]

Fantastic, just the few pix you posted, and I didn't look too hard either, have got me close to losing my lunch. What is the matter with these people?!

I am speechless, and very disturbed. Hoping beyond hope that somebody comes to their senses and lets the poor boy go.:mad:

[Fantastic]

Here are the email addresses for Angela Hatcher, the person who covered the news clip which featured Two Socks and Roanoke Valley Horse Rescue (ahatcher@wsls.com), and the News Director: (mpreas@wsls.com).

[Fantastic]

Here's a company they own: Cowboy Computers Inc.

http://cowboycomputersinc.com/index.html

[JackieBlue]

I'm in Charlottesville, VA, about 2 hours from Roanoke and I used to live right in Roanoke, so I know the area well. Has anyone heard from the state vet? Does someone with a camera need to pay this facility a visit? I haven't been able to see any of the photos b/c as you all know the site was altered and I can't even seem to access cached pages. Because of my line of work I regularly see the worst of the worst leg and hoof trainwrecks and just from what I've read it sounds as if this horse's number was up long before the hoof sloughed. Does anyone have saved pictures they can email to me? If it comes down to it I can make hard copies and go door to door - state vet, SPCA, Roanoke vets, etc.... Maybe he's been "let go" while we've all been posting on this thread? Wishful thinking never hurts, right??

[Cayusepapoose]

JackieBlue- the photos are in post#143

[JackieBlue]

I just now stumbled across the photobucket link one of you was kind enough to provide and got a look at the photos. And I'm almost sorry that I did. As some have said, yes, a sloughed hoof can grow back provided that underlying structures are intact and proper nursing care (dirt jammed up into all the nooks and crannies doesn't usually come into play) is given throughout the entire process, but this horse ain't gonna go that route. There's been a collapse of supportive structures resulting in luxation of the pastern/coffin joints that, aside from certain infection and other complications, completely precludes any chance of healing on this horse's part. Also, the right front is bound in to be in a similar state, even if not quite so obvious just yet because at this late stage of the game it is certainly damaged as well. In fact, in the last photo on the photobucket page, the one labeled August 27 and tagged http://s822.photobucket.com/albums/zz150/ImaHorseLover/?action=view&current=twosocks1-1.jpg, there appears to be hoof horn visible on the lateral side? I'm thinking this may be an August 27 photo of the right front with imminent separation of the wall beginning at the coronet just around the corner. Does it look like the right front to anyone else?

Editted to add, did anyone else notice on the adoption site that he has no teeth?

[Ambrey]

I've met the woman in charge and she's a very much, 'save them at all costs' type of person.

Unless, apparently, "all costs" means "having a vet out when the hoof falls off" or "feeding a toothless horse appropriate feed."

They are fine when "save them at all costs" means "our expert caretakers are watching him."

[Fantastic]

Acording to the Channel 10 video clip, Two Socks was from the Virginia Beach area and was owned by a man that lost his job. Here is my craigslist post:

http://norfolk.craigslist.org/grd/1351542619.html

[MistyBlue]

There's something wrong with giving up a horse solely due to losing your house...and having the horse lose it's hoof and become emaciated in 3.5 months time. :no: I had assumed the horse was given up due to having had health issues with that hoof to begin with, not that it was a voluntary give up due to finances alone. So the horse got there healthy weight and sound?
Looks like they have food aplenty...and just aren't grasping the fact that this horse is losing weight due to being in pain. And that a horse not gaining on grain needs soaked senior food.
How can someone be a "rescue" and not know these things? That's basic horsekeeping 101...pony club kids know this by the age of 10.

[arabhorse2]

I know there are people on COTH who think that some of us are too aggressively for euthanasia, but I doubt anyone would think this particular horse is going to recover.

I've contacted the State Vet, too. Hopefully someone, anyone will hear from him today.

The poor horse needs to be put down NOW. He's already suffered far too long at the hands of this 'caregiver'.

All the rest of the animals, especially that pinto gelding, need some major vet care and plenty of decent food. There is no excuse for the condition of those animals.

[LexInVA]

From what I can see of the place through the photos on their server, I don't give the horse good odds at recovering in that sort of environment. It's very roughshod and inhospitable. They literally threw up their rescue in the woods and the terrain I see in these pics coupled with the weather and climate is not a good combination for hoof health.

[sidepasser]

Emails sent to State Vet and the news station. I don't know what else can be done except wait and see now if the State Vet will investigate and get this horse put down. Only other folks I can think of are the State Senators/Representatives and the Governor.

[trubandloki]

Thank you to all you people that are finding all the places to get in contact with people to help this poor boy out! Smart thinking!

Jingling that the poor boy does not have to suffer too long!

[arabhorse2]

I've also contacted WSET 13.

Granted, they're in Lynchburg, but they're not so far from Roanoke that they couldn't cover the story.

[minnie]

So I'm wondering if the reporter - what was her name-Angela Hatcher? - has seen the recent photos of Two Socks by now. Wonder if she would jump on this new story or avoid it like the plague since she reported what a good place it was a couple months ago.

[JackieBlue]

Acording to the Channel 10 video clip, Two Socks was from the Virginia Beach area and was owned by a man that lost his job. Here is my craigslist post:

http://norfolk.craigslist.org/grd/1351542619.html


You typed "his off has rotted off".

[JackieBlue]

Can someone who posted the photo index from rvhr site tell me how you access the index?

[gieriscm]

http://www.rvhr.com/images/

[Fantastic]

I added photos of the suffering to my CL ad. Here is the link:

http://norfolk.craigslist.org/grd/1351542619.html


Please Read: Two Socks - horse at Roanoke Valley Horse Rescue!!??!! (Virginia Beach?)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 2009-08-31, 1:03PM EDT
Reply to: sale-ggrhw-1351542619@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Does anyone know who owned a horse possibly called "Two Socks" that was given to Patricia Muncy, Pat Muncy of the Roanoke Valley Horse Rescue?? He is a 25 yr old chestnut gelding with two hind socks and a blaze? The owner was said to be from Virginia Beach and he had lost his job, hence giving the horse to the rescue. Two Socks was in great condition on May 14, 2009 when he was featured in this news segment on WSLS Channel 10: http://www2.wsls.com/sls/news/local/...e_group/35396/ , but has gone quickly down hill since.

Roanoke Valley Horse Rescue is starving this horse to death, his hoof has rotten off, he is left suffering in pain, and they are leading him around on a stump of bone and what is left of ligaments and tissue!! Yes, the entire hoof capsule has sloughed off, and the horse is now standing on bone! On August 24, 2009, Two Socks was found in his stall where the hoof came off. The "rescue" (I use that term lightly) then had the audacity to lead the poor horse out of his stall (walking on the stub of bone) and out onto the grass where they took photographs. Three days later, on August 27, 2009, they again lead the horse from his stall on three hooves and a stub of bone, so that they could take pictures. Two Socks should have been in a sling at a hospital, not walking around on grass!

But just look at him now - starving and walking around on a stump: http://s822.photobucket.com/albums/zz150/ImaHorseLover/
. Photos of the horrific suffering was posted on the RVHR website over the week end, but have since been removed. You can see some information here on their website: http://www.rvhr.com/index.shtml


If anyone knows this horse or who owned him, could you PLEASE contact his owner and let him know the condition and the status of his beloved horse?

Thank you!

[MVR]

I received a voicemail from the Franklin Co AC while I was w/ the horses at lunch- Verbatim: This is Franklin Co AC (no name?)returning a call in reference to a horse. The horse is at a horse rescue being taken care of. The internet pictures were hacked from the rescue's system and are of the horse when it 1st happened. They are trying to resolve the issue. They do have vets. The horse is in good health, it is being taken care of. Internet is not true. If I have questions, please call back @ 540-263-0315

The president of RVHR is listed as an AC officer so I bet they are sweeping it under the rug! I bet he didn't even go out there! Please everyone do call! I am calling AGAIN right now.

ETA: Called the AC office back. His name is Keith Holland. Left him a message as thats his cell # above.

[JackieBlue]

Just how much money do you think a "horse rescue" could rake in donation-wise if they "rescue" low value horses with decent body condition scores and then starve them into a devastating state and post the actual after starvation photos as "before" shots on their website and the better body condition photos as the "afters"? I mean, there are numerous free horses for the taking, especially as unemployment rates climb and corporate cutbacks continue. If you thought you could make some money with some dramatic photos on your "rescue's" website...
What got me thinking that way were photos of a horse called "Popeye" on her website. She has a pic of this horse, skinny as the dickens, labeled, "before I brought him home", but she also has a pic of the same guy (a paint, so easily identifiable beyond question) as a baby in good condition and multiple shots of the same horse in varying degrees of unkemptness in a roundpen and even at a horseshow. If he was an adult and scrawny before she brought him home, how did she get the baby pic? Maybe I'm on a critical bender here, but this lady is really freaking me out now!

[JackieBlue]

Okay, if the photos were hacked, why doesn't it say that on the website and why are the photos dated August 24 and 27??

[Ambrey]

She doesn't mean the photos were hacked ONTO her website, she's complaining that people downloaded the photos she took off the website and are still distributing them.

[caffeinated]

MVR did they say they had actually BEEN there?

I can't even begin to understand how a horse with exposed bone could possible be being "taken care of" other than to have him euthanized. This is making me ill.

[sidepasser]

Ask for the name of the vets that are supposedly taking care of this horse, then call them. How can the person say the website was hacked when the rescue itself said they removed the page w/pictures due to the volume of email they were receiving? mmm?

[MVR]

MVR did they say they had actually BEEN there?

I can't even begin to understand how a horse with exposed bone could possible be being "taken care of" other than to have him euthanized. This is making me ill.

No he didn't. I have a nice message for him on his cell that I expect a call back, that I have forwarded all the info to the State Vet's office for follow-up, and that I am requesting an email addy to send evidence.

[Hampton Bay]

What about the local newspaper? http://www.roanoke.com/

[Liberty]

Bold emphasis added by me:

I received a voicemail from the Franklin Co AC while I was w/ the horses at lunch- Verbatim: This is Franklin Co AC (no name?)returning a call in reference to a horse. The horse is at a horse rescue being taken care of. The internet pictures were hacked from the rescue's system and are of the horse when it 1st happened. They are trying to resolve the issue. They do have vets. The horse is in good health, it is being taken care of. Internet is not true. If I have questions, please call back @ 540-263-0315

...

What's that supposed to mean, I wonder? This "first happened" (meaning the hoof fell off) exactly one week ago (Monday, 8/24), and those photos show when it happened and what was done in the ensuing days. No mention of either vet or farrier actually SEEING this horse. Further, the vet's name disappears from RVHR's website.

The "Internet is not true"? This horse is magically now "in good health"? WTH is up with that? Pictures don't lie; at least not the ones put out there by RVHR themselves.

I'm seeing cover-up city here, and it ain't gonna fly. Meanwhile that poor horse continues to suffer. This is just getting crazier and crazier...

[MVR]

Keith has just returned my call. Its as I suspected. He did go out there (supposedly) and by his own words- "He is like a peace officer and doesn't know much about animals. They call her when they get a situation regarding horses and she tells them what to do. She is a horse rescue and takes her job very seriously. She has had her farrier Danny Ward there to check on a prosthetic hoof, but he found the other hoof is probably going to fall off too. So they will do what they have to do and might wind up euthanizing."

He assured me SEVERAL times the horse is in absolutely no pain at all! I asked why its body condition is a 1, he said "he has lost weight since this incident" I told him there is no way he lost significant body mass such as he did in a week's time. I also told him that just because they are a rescue, does not mean they are doing it the right way.

He then tried to assure me the internet was hacked. I told him I found all this info on RVHR's own website. Thats BS.

Her vet info according to Keith is : Tanya Hatcher 540-380-4333 and according to him the horse has been seen. I have not contacted her yet.

I don't know what else to do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! God this is so freaking ridiculous!

[JSwan]

I'm seeing cover-up city here, and it ain't gonna fly. Meanwhile that poor horse continues to suffer. This is just getting crazier and crazier...

Liberty - this is why I really and truly do not like the way things are going with shelters in VA. That and ACO's and contracting out shelter operations to rescue groups.

Because this is the type of crap that happens. Rescues set themselves up as the "go to" people for a county and the county - which has a legal mandate but no funds - relies on them.

What I mean by mandate is that Richmond requires all localities to operate a shelter - which is reasonable. But most of VA is rural, and for that and other reasons localities contract out shelter operations, including investigations, to "rescues".

Now - if you have a good rescue or nonprofit that can work out pretty well. But it's haphazard and patchwork - and ends up being very political. As you can see from this one - it is ripe with conflicts of interest. (or the appearance of conflicts - which is the same thing ethically)

Because the locality is so dependent upon that rescue to fill the requirement, problems are often overlooked or minimized. Or it becomes VERY political, activist enforcement, multi-million dollar contracts, high paid employees, animals being shipped in and out to make numbers look good - it can be just very political.

An HSUS course isn't enough for someone to be qualified to be an investigator. I'm sorry - it isn't. A rescue that just happens to be convenient isn't a good reason to let them just take in animals willy nilly and do whatever they want.

If law enforcement is relying on such a person's judgment - that means if she's on a ride along they'll defer to her on what constitutes abuse or neglect.

That really scares me - because that chick needs to have her head examined. And I really do try not to overreact to such things because I know we never get the full story.

Just knowing some of the rescues that are out there - and some of the horrible situations with some shelters - and all the politics in VA- just.... yuck. :no:

[Appassionato]

"She has had her farrier Danny Ward there to check on a prosthetic hoof, but he found the other hoof is probably going to fall off too."

Wait...as in, ANOTHER hoof is about to fall off??? OMFG.

[Hampton Bay]

Is there anyone here who trims or shoes professionally, or who is a vet, who can maybe contact the local media? Someone with the training to back up the statement that his pastern bone is on the ground might be the best bet. If she is honestly a part of the local law enforcement, either in writing or just as an "expert", then law enforcement is likely going to claim conflict of interest. Going to the media might get more done. And having someone with the professional designation to back up these statements is going to be much more well-received than just someone who owns horses.

Just an idea. I'm not so good with the drafting of the emails, or I would have sent a couple myself. I just have no clue what to say other than "this sucks, poor horsey".

I bet the vet was getting phone calls, which is why she is no longer on the website. But the vet's hands may be tied here too. Even if she recommends euthing him, would they really go along with that recommendation? She may be in a position where all she can do is walk away.

[Daydream Believer]

You know...you just can't fix stupidity. I know...I've tried and it doesn't work. Some people you just can't tell anything to and they always know better than everyone else. Such a frustrating situation. I would hate to be the farrier involved in this mess.

[MVR]

"She has had her farrier Danny Ward there to check on a prosthetic hoof, but he found the other hoof is probably going to fall off too."

Wait...as in, ANOTHER hoof is about to fall off??? OMFG.

Yes, the other front. Then "they will Do what they have to do and might euthanize him"

[arabhorse2]

MVR, it's interesting that Tanya Hatchett was listed on RVHR's website prior, but isn't any longer.

I don't think this horse has seen a vet. If it has, I can't believe the vet didn't recommend immediate euthanasia.

Heck, even a small animal vet would know that horse isn't going to recover!

[Liberty]

Liberty - this is why I really and truly do not like the way things are going with shelters in VA. That and ACO's and contracting out shelter operations to rescue groups.

Because this is the type of crap that happens. Rescues set themselves up as the "go to" people for a county and the county - which has a legal mandate but no funds - relies on them.

...

Thing is, RVHR has also received horses from OTHER counties, such as several from that substantial TB seizure in Loudoun County a year or two ago.

Ditto the rest of your post too. This is infuriating.

[Liberty]

"She has had her farrier Danny Ward there to check on a prosthetic hoof, but he found the other hoof is probably going to fall off too."

Wait...as in, ANOTHER hoof is about to fall off??? OMFG.

Someone on another board (or maybe it was this one?) mentioned noticing that it appeared the right front hoof might also be doomed to falling off. :no:

As for Danny Ward, RVHR states on their website that they use students of his (and for the love of God, why can't RVHR spell FARRIER correctly?):
http://www.rvhr.com/ferrier.shtml

Now, they may have had Mr. Ward, in the flesh, come and look at Two Socks, but personally, I seriously doubt it. He appears to be quite well-respected from what I found with a Google search. Here's Mr. Ward's website:
http://dannywardhorseshoeingschool.com/Home_Page.php

I have to wonder how he feels having his name dropped in the middle of all this?

[MVR]

MVR, it's interesting that Tanya Hatchett was listed on RVHR's website prior, but isn't any longer.

I don't think this horse has seen a vet. If it has, I can't believe the vet didn't recommend immediate euthanasia.

Heck, even a small animal vet would know that horse isn't going to recover!

I know. I am literally at my wits end here. I'm used to this BS in KY, but the difference is I can march my happy @ss in the sheriff's departments and demand something be done. Not in this case. I just can't believe ANYONE would think this horse is in no pain? Are you kidding???? Perhaps we should chop old Keith's foot off and left him hobble around awhile...

I'm at work trying to get all this done and I have to leave to go to the barn and tend to our rescues. Can you call this vet? Or anyone?

[JSwan]

Thing is, RVHR has also received horses from OTHER counties, such as several from that substantial TB seizure in Loudoun County a year or two ago.

Ditto the rest of your post too. This is infuriating.

Oh - I didn't realize any of the TB's had made it down there!

Since this is all happening in Virginia, I hope we can all learn something from this since the next GA session is going to bring some potentially dramatic changes to the shelter/rescue system.

The tendency is going to be to want to outsource more of this, including law enforcement, to nonprofits and volunteers - AND give them sovereign immunity.

Not trying to start an argument over the virtues of that approach - just hoping we can agree that we really should be taking a hard look at exactly who these rescues and volunteers are before we give them any more power or authority. Because this just isn't right.

[sidepasser]

Well what about Fox News or CNN? This horse did not lose that much weight in one week. Jeez what a trainwreck.

Anyone hear anything out of the State Vet? I got no response to my email or fax. Got no response to the news station email. Can someone contact the vet, Ms. Hatcher? Find out if she examined the horse? Surely she doesn't want to get mixed up in this or maybe she did recommend putting the horse down and now she's poofed from the website. Seems awful strange that the vet who examined the horse isn't known or posted on the website.

I think perhaps FACEBOOK where millions view might be an angle?

Sounds like Virginia has the fox guarding the henhouse and the fox is winning in this case. I do believe it is going to have to make the national news before anyone is going to answer for this poor horse.

[Appassionato]

The AC guy named Keith, who is his employer? Is he with the Sheriff's Office, city police, or what? Actually, I feel as badly for him as I do the vet and farrier who have had their name drug through it. He's in a hired position, but answers to the Chief of Police or Sheriff. And if THEY won't move or allow him to move forward, then he looks like the bad guy. I've seen that happen before personally (the AC guy I worked with, before he left the job).

This isn't meant AT you, MVR, just saying. The rescue may have some politics going. Or VA is as bad as GA with horses! I suspect they are.

[Horsegal984]

I sent off an e-mail to the farrier, will follow suit if anybody can find me a contact for the vet, since it's after hours now I doubt a phone call would be answered.

"Mr. Ward,

I wanted to make sure you are aware of a situation involving a horse at Roanoke Valley Horse Rescue called Two Socks. The horse appears to be in great distress and in poor health, and according to their website you are the farrier involved in the case. However it was then clarified that they use students of yours. I wanted to make sure you were aware of the situation, since they have only named ou are the caregiver of this horse, and no vet care has been confirmed. My understanding is that you are well respected in the local and horse-shoeing communities, and I would hate to see you unknowningly brought into a situation where your name and reputation could be tarnished.



While I fully understand that the internet is a reader beware type of situation I personally saw all of these photos and information on the rescue's website before the page was removed. Here are links to the conversation on COTH as well as the saved photos on Photobucket.

http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=221268

http://s822.photobucket.com/albums/zz150/ImaHorseLover/




If you are already aware or involved in this case I apologize in advance for bothering you.



Katherine

Vet Tech"

[Horsegal984]

And I think the Facebook group is a great idea!! I just honestly don't know how to set one up. (I should, seeing as I'm 24;) ) If somebody with better Facebook skils will work on that I'll see what I can get on the vet

So far, Tanya Hatchett, Clover Animal Health 540-380-3433

[JSwan]

The rescue may have some politics going.

The politics of the shelter system in this state are... um... interesting.

[Cayusepapoose]

Can someone in VA Please try to call the state trooper barracks in Roanoke?? Wouldn't they investigate? I see that they have a mounted detachment and have ridden a mount named Spots that had some connection with this place. Maybe someone there has a bloody consience.

[Appassionato]

The politics of the shelter system in this state are... um... interesting.

So I see! GA just passes the buck or turns a blind eye to it.

I hope the horse passes soon. From any method. Even a wild animal attack might be preferable at this point compared to what is happening to him. By the time the sepsis kills him, he'll have endured far more misery. That's a terrible thought I know, but it's the truth.

[Foxtrot's]

PETA has a facebook page - can you link onto their site (I'm a Phillistine when it comes to this stuff, sorry)

I'm not a fan of PETA but they love every opportunity to get some media attention.

What about sending this whole thread whenever anyone sends an e-mail. I've sent to all the ones I can. To let them know that the entire worldwide web is looking.

What a bunch of gutless officials.

[JSwan]

I'm not a fan of PETA but they love every opportunity to get some media attention.


I've had a lot of dealings with the state Vet's office over the past few months. Regulatory stuff about poultry - my pigs aren't going to give everyone swine flu. Promise.;)

Anyway - my experience has been that it they don't usually return calls the same business day. Not making any excuse - just throwing that out since I do actually speak to folks in that office.


I wouldn't count on PETA. They've been caught doing some pretty horrific things in our state and if they're smart they'll continue to keep their heads down. They have a lot of blood on their hands. (They are headquartered here)

[Foxtrot's]

All these levels of authority confuse me. Can someone find out how to send the Mayor of Roanoke this thread...embarass him to have Roanoke known as the horse cruelty capital.

[Fantastic]

I've received several emails. These two appear to possibly know the owner:

Who are you and how did you get this information???!!! I know Two Socks and I have contacted his owner to let him know about the situation and begged him to do something! I don't know what if anything he can/will do though. Why has this not been reported to animal control and how can a rescue organization get away with this? It's horrifying! Whoever you are thank you for reaching out, I only hope that it will do some good.


and

Information has been forwarded to appropriate sources for further investigation. Thank you for your help.

[Fantastic]

Angela Hatcher of WSLS was not in her office today. Hopefully someone will go out there and investigate!



Even if these RVHR quacks euth poor Two Socks, someone needs to go out there and SHUT THEM DOWN!! This sort of treatment of horses or any animal is just not tollerable! And from a "rescue", no less.:mad::cry:

[Appassionato]

Just another thought, it may or may not be of help: if you want to try to embarass law emforcement or officials, it's best done through the media. These folks are very much used to individuals not liking them, so a few individual calls may not mean much. A bombardment of phone calls usually just harasses the administrative side of it. So basically, get the masses all looking at him/her at once (and visually like the TV news can do) and THEN you've got them answering for themselves. Just my experience, nothing more and maybe it can help everyone figure out where to pool resources and get this horse the relief he needs!

[Seal Harbor]

There are fates worse than death. This appears to be one of them. Hopefully someone will do right by the poor old horse and release him from his pain.

[JSwan]

All these levels of authority confuse me. Can someone find out how to send the Mayor of Roanoke this thread...embarass him to have Roanoke known as the horse cruelty capital.

I understand. Maybe this will help.

The state requires each county/city to operate an animal shelter.

The county/city contracts that out to a nonprofit group/rescue.

The nonprofit group/rescue operates the shelter.

The shelter reports to the Office of the State Veterinarian, as anything related to the welfare or diseases of pets or livestock falls under its purview.

The shelter also operates under the county/city authority and as an agency of the county/city, is overseen by the Board of Supervisor or the mayor.

The Animal Control Officer is a law enforcement position housed within the police department and hovers between law enforcement and the shelter.

There are also Humane Investigators but that program was suspended due to abuses committed by volunteer investigators. There are a few left but evidently none in that area as this rescue is the equine cruelty investigator.



So. No one wants to mess with the nonprofit/rescue because hey - they're doing the job and little to none of the cost is coming out of the county budget. So they're not going to want to get involved.

The ACO's in this case are involved with the nonprofit/rescue. No help there.

The trooper barracks is going to defer to the county law enforcement. The county is going to defer to the shelter. The state vet is going to defer to the county. The county will also defer to the rescue.

They will all defer to each others jurisdiction because that is the way things happen in this state. No clear delineation of who is responsible. Just a lot of deferring and not wanting to get involved in what is essentially a bunch of volunteers saving Dobbin. It looks bad.

That's what happens when you report things like poaching, too. The state says call the warden. The warden is 5 hours away. The warden says call the county. The county says - call the warden. The warden says, call the state. The state says, call the county.

And that, my friend is why we are not well served by the policies this state has set up in relation to certain crimes. Crimes that no one wants to deal with - and that volunteers only make worse.

Which is why I understand your frustration and anger and share it.

[Horsegal984]

e-mail for Tanya Hatchett eqdr1 at verison dot net

Dr. Hatchett,
I wanted to make sure you are aware of a situation involving a horse at Roanoke Valley Horse Rescue called Two Socks. The horse appears to be in great distress and in poor health, and according to what they have reported to Animal Control you are the veterinarian involved in the case. I have also noticed that while you were originally listed as their veterinarian under Board of Directors you are no longer on their webpage. I am greatly concerned that this horse is not in fact recieving any veterinary care, since the rescue will only discuss the farrier and 'caregivers' involved in the case. My understanding is that you are well respected in the local and veterinary communities, and I would hate to see you unknowningly brought into a situation where your name and reputation could be tarnished. If in fact this horse is no longer under our care, we would appreciate any help you could give in contacting or speaking with officials who have the power to make sure this horse once again begins recieving proper licensed veterinary care.

While I fully understand that the internet is a reader beware type of situation I personally saw all of these photos and information on the rescue's website before the page was removed. Here are links to the conversation on COTH as well as the saved photos on Photobucket.
http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=221268
http://s822.photobucket.com/albums/zz150/ImaHorseLover/


If you are already aware or involved in this case I apologize in advance for bothering you, but would greatly appreciate any correspondence back from you. While I fully understand you cannot discuss the particulars of a case(and certainly would not ask you to break client-patient confidentiality) I would get great peace of mind from knowing that there are licensed veterinary professionals involved to ensure this horse is not in the amount of pain he appears to be.

Katherine
Vet Tech

[hossluva]

They pulled the pic off their website but there's a before and after pic on Fugly's site.... What a nightmare. How does this happen to a horse at a rescue?? He was beautiful upon entry. I don't even know how that happens to a horse, period! Holy Moly, if that horse isn't in pain I'm the pope and I'm not even catholic. What a crying shame. That rescue needs to be investigated after that poor guy is euthanized; something is seriously wrong down there. :eek: Sad Sad Sad!!! BTW, that's a very nice letter horsegal, let us know if you find out anything.

[Hampton Bay]

Some groups they are associated with or who supposedly sponsor them. Perhaps a group email is in order?

info@roanokevalleyhorseshow.com

Genesis Mansions LTD
Susanne Helbig - helbigsd@msn.com
Phone: 540.721.0005 Fax: 540.721.0006

Professional Realty Group
Business: (540) 297-0972 Cell: (434) 665-9055
E-Mail: Dawn@dawnrunyon.com

Toklat
INFO@TOKLAT.COM

Fortiflex
info@fortexfortiflex.com

Professional's Choice
info@profchoice.com

Silver Feather Gypsies
mgraybeal@silverfeathergypsies.com

Dermafas
curafas@prtcnet.com

Rocky Top Ranch Equine Transport
equinetransporte@aol.com

Foxden Equine
melyni@foxdenequine.com

Davis
Phone: (920) 346-5815, Fax: (920) 346-5900

Holdren's Country Store
(540) 344-6053

Southern States
(540) 992-1001 (Troutville)
540-344-5880 (Boone's Mill)

Shepherd's Saddle Shop
(540) 343-6746

The Tack Room
540-262-5027

Moneta Farm Service, Inc.
540-297-5558

[Horsegal984]

I've also gotten some responses to a version of the Craigslist ad I copied and pasted. I am trying to contact that person now, in the hopes that they may know something

[blackstallion2]

Barbaro certainly was in less dire circumstances when he was euthanized, with the best vet care in the world... You know, for all the good this rescue may have ever done, they will only be remembered by the before and after photos of Two Socks. If he were in anyone else's backyard, there would be criminal charges. :no:

[sidepasser]

I too thought of Barbaro when I saw Two Socks. If Barbaro could not be saved given his owner's funding, the care at the facility, etc...

this poor horse hasn't much of a chance in Hades.

[Liberty]

Acording to the Channel 10 video clip, Two Socks was from the Virginia Beach area and was owned by a man that lost his job. Here is my craigslist post:

http://norfolk.craigslist.org/grd/1351542619.html

Fantastic,

Great job on the ad. However your link to the WSLS video doesn't work since it looks like you copied/pasted it from your COTH post (hence some of it was truncated by COTH into "..."). I made a "tinyurl" of the original link if it's too long to work in your ad:
http://tinyurl.com/TwoSocksRVHR

Thanks for all your work on this.

[Fantastic]

Thought I'd share this email with everyone from a gal that used to lease Two Socks:


I leased Two Socks a about 1 1/2 years ago and he was one of the nicest horses I've ever known, not a mean bone in his body. He did have constant issues with thrush in his right front and ended up having some lameness issues in his left front. The owner never would do anything about it while I was leasing him which is why I stopped leasing him.

I know the owner finally had some kind of surgery done on his left front leg after I stopped leasing him but I don't know exactly what was done. He did recover from that surgery and although he still limped, he was able to walk around and graze and was not underweight at all. The last time I visited him was early Spring so I don't know what condition he was in when he was "rescued", but I'm certain he was not anywhere close to what he is now.

The picture of him standing with the girl is not a picture in Roanoke but is in front of the barn where I leased him, and clearly he is fine there. I think his owner had him for at least 15 years, but while I was involved with him he almost never came out to see him. He fell on hard times and I don't know any other details than that.


I have sent an e-mail to the Roanoke SPCA pleading with them to investigate this "rescue" place. It's all horribly upsetting, shocking and deplorable that this has been allowed to happen to such a great horse. I pray that someone will come to there senses and put him down, it just makes me absolutely sick that he has suffered so much already!


:cry:

[Fantastic]

Liberty, thanks for making the tiny URL. How did you do that?

[Fantastic]

Liberty wrote:

Thanks for all your work on this.




You are welcome! I am located 3,000 miles away on the west coast. I just want to do what I can to end the suffering!:cry:

[Lazy Palomino Hunter]

Has anyone looked at the other horses on their website??

Just an example:
http://www.rvhr.com/franck.shtml

Almost ALL of them have LOST weight since arriving at this "rescue"- you can see the ribs on every single horse that has lived there longer than a month or so! :(

[JLMet]

Fantastic, is she able to provide his name? Could see if he's listed anywhere. You did a great job with that craigslist ad. Everyone is appalled about this and no one is defending them except for the people who are affiliated with them. This is truly a horrible situation.

ETA
LPH, I noticed that too. Some of them haven't changed condition at all when they first arrived 6 months prior (weight gain should have been noticeably within 6 months) and all of their coats look ragged. I'm not saying that it's because they are all poorly cared for because as we all know age and health is a factor too, but for ALL of their horses to look the same or worse (look at Emrick, clear weight loss) is unacceptable.

[Liberty]

Liberty, thanks for making the tiny URL. How did you do that?

www.tinyurl.com

:)

[LavenderFarm]

Any non-profit accepting funds in VA must file annually with the Virginia Department of Agriculture and Consumer Affairs. This "rescue" apparently has done so.

While it will not help Two Socks, perhaps complaints can be filed with VDACS to help the others and close down this place. Here is a section from the site regarding animal cruelty: http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+3.2-6502

The main site is http://www.vdacs.virginia.gov

How horrible this horse has suffered so.

[Shiaway]

So if she's listing him as adoptable now here: (reposted from an earlier post)

http://www.equineadoptionnetwork.com/details.php?id=112 can someone from that area go adopt him right away and then have him euthanized?

I live in New England or I would be there in a second. Anyone?

[MVR]

The AC guy named Keith, who is his employer? Is he with the Sheriff's Office, city police, or what? Actually, I feel as badly for him as I do the vet and farrier who have had their name drug through it. He's in a hired position, but answers to the Chief of Police or Sheriff. And if THEY won't move or allow him to move forward, then he looks like the bad guy. I've seen that happen before personally (the AC guy I worked with, before he left the job).

This isn't meant AT you, MVR, just saying. The rescue may have some politics going. Or VA is as bad as GA with horses! I suspect they are.

He is an animal control officer for Franklin County, which is a part of the public safety department. http://www.franklincountyva.gov/animal-cont/front-page

JMHO- its typical good ole boy southern mentality. I think that if the officer REALLY did think something was wrong, he would have said so. He doesn't know any better, he relies on Pat for direction. So he is eating up whatever she says. I'm sure he doesn't want to alienate her either, as then whom would take all Franklin county's wayward horses? Unfortunately, its all too familiar.

Putting some more stuff together for the state vet & trying to track down regional animal control contacts.

[Appassionato]

Looks like he's under the county commissioner's office, which would mean someone would need to contact the county commissioner or Sheriff.

FTR, I had the AC in the county I used to live in admit to me that some horses were in dire need of help, yet his hands were tied. It sucked. The owners finally gave up the horses, but under very ugly and unlawful pretenses performed by the GA Dept. of Ag. I didn't complain, because at least something got done. But the AC guy is only as powerful as his superiors allow him to be. And in law enforcement, the bottom line is money. That's been my experience in more than one county. :(

However, this isn't some attempt at telling people to just sit and wait. Like the rest of you, I want to see something done. Now, even. It's just figuring out WHAT to do that's so hard. It would be interesting to hear what the Sheriff or county commissioner says though...hmmm...

And great job to all of you that have come up with folks to contact!

[Hampton Bay]

Since I am pretty bad at writing emails regarding this type of thing (non-confrontational anyone?) would someone mind sharing what they have written just as a general email? I don't mind emailing people, but these things don't come easily to me.

[Cayusepapoose]

I also want to say thanks to all of you that have the computer savvy and the knowledge of who to go to at least rattle some cages. Every time I've looked at that picture of this poor bugger when he was still in good health; I also see my old girl Mischief.
This whole godforsaken mess has kicked the stuffing out of me. I hate that no one in charge to do the right thing will do it; and he'll have to shut down on his own. Shit on a stick.

[MVR]

Since I am pretty bad at writing emails regarding this type of thing (non-confrontational anyone?) would someone mind sharing what they have written just as a general email? I don't mind emailing people, but these things don't come easily to me.

Here is what I have been sending out:

Let me start out by saying, I am the president of a 501(c)3 horse rescue in south central KY. The link below was posted on a horse rescue forum that I am a member of.
http://www.rvhr.com/twosocks.shtml I am very concerned regarding the condition of this horse. There is no mention of veterinary assistance and this animal is clearly suffering. The entire herd looks poor and un-thrifty. Please send someone out to this property to investigate & evaluate conditions there.
1725 Edwardsville Rd Hardy, VA 24101-4635 I believe there are horses in need of immediate veterinary care that they are not receiving.

RVHR has since pulled the page from their public website replacing it with these updates:
http://www.rvhr.com/

<PICS HERE>

The most disturbing part is the principles of this organization are listed as animal control officers for Franklin AC. I am sincerely concerned that there is no mention of vet care, and that they also removed the vet contact info from their website when they pulled Two Sock's page.

Everyone I have received correspondence back from seems to have no investigative power and has directed me to you. Please do send someone ASAP to check on this horse and the others at RVHR.

Please contact me to confirm you have received this.

Thank you,
Raquel Ferotti
Founder/ President
Mountain View Rescue

[arabhorse2]

All, I just received this e-mail from the State Vet's office:

Dear Ms. Flanagan,

On behalf of Dr. Wilkes, thank you for your concern regarding the welfare of this horse. My staff has been in contact with Franklin County Animal Control, who made several visits to the premises where the horse is stabled. The horse had been under veterinary care, and was euthanized yesterday by the attending veterinarian.

Sincerely,

Daniel A. Kovich, DVM, MPH

Staff Veterinarian for Animal Care and Health Policy Office of Animal Care and Health Policy Virginia Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services

804-786-2483 (Office)
804-840-8981 (Cell)
804-371-2380 (Fax)
dan.kovich@vdacs.virginia.gov (dan.kovich@vdacs.virginia.gov)

So apparently Two Spots was euthed yesterday, thank God.

I'm hoping they'll do something about the other horses who need food and veterinary care, as well.

[ChocoMare]

Oh thank God!!!!

RIP sweet boy :cry:

[KnKShowmom]

I live within an hour of this facility and have been following this thread. I agree totally that this horse should have been put down and that there is something amiss with this rescue.

That said, I am a bit shocked that this is happening at RVHR. There are quite a few "rescues" in Va but this one, and another in Bedford, have always had a good reputation (the others do not) and I even know someone who adopted 2 horses from them.

After making a few calls concerning the rescue/farrier/vet we are all scratching our heads and would like to know the full story. There is no doubt that the horse needs to be put down, but if in fact these professionals are involved and he is still alive, then that is troubling.

My biggest concern is when the news media gets a hold of this that it will have a trickle down effect on other organizations which are doing their job. Donations are down, surrenders are up and the media has been doing a great job in not only reporting seizures but also that these resuces need funding. The issue is that non horse people cannot tell the good ones from the bad and people whose horses are in need may shy away from getting help if they don't feel confident in an organization.

Judging from the list of sponsors/contributors of RVHR, the current conditions have not always been the norm and I agree that an audit is in need but are we throwing out the baby with the bath water by trying to involve the media and those outside the horse world???

Edited to add: RIP Two Socks - sorry your peace took so long!

[JLMet]

I just got that same email Arab. I can't tell you how relieved I am that his suffering is finally over. However I believe some investigating still needs to be done as so many things were clearly done wrong. Not just for him, but for other horses there as well. I know they have their hands full with the economy being as bad as it is but it was extremely troubling for some of the things seen there. I hope for the sake of the horses that this is investigated fully to make sure nothing like this ever happens again.

[arabhorse2]

JL, I agree, and that's what I wrote back to Dr. Kovich.

I told him I was glad that Two Socks had finally been euthed, but there were more things that needed investigating.

I understand that the economy has affected everyone, but rather than give substandard care to all the animals, it might better serve RVHR to euth the unadoptable/old/injured ones.

Sometimes we have to make hard choices for the animals who have a chance at a real future, versus the ones who don't. I think this is one of those times.

[alittlegray]

I am SO glad to see this poor guy was euthed. I know it is so hard to let go, but the pain he had to be in just makes the choice easy.

[JLMet]

That was exactly what I did!

This was my email to him...

Thank you so much for your response. I can't tell you how relieved I am
that this horses suffering is finally over. I am however extremely
concerned as to why it took so long for Two Socks to be put down. This was
clearly something that should have been done immediately. I understand the
hoof wall can grown back but look how long they waited to put him down. Why
did he have to suffer that whole time? If they wanted him to have a chance
they should have had him in a sling so no pressure was on that leg at all.
Please tell me there will be an investigation into this. I highly doubt he
was under vet care as per their site he had not been seen by anyone but a
"ferrier" that was just out of school. What about his body condition? His
accident happened 8/24 as well as his hoof wall falling off yet his body
score was clearly a 1 the day they took that photo. Why was he so thin? He
was a 5-6 on body score when he arrived there and while I understand he may
have lost some weight due to stress and pain during that time, he would not
have lost hundreds and hundreds of pounds within 1 week. The other horses
they have all look like they are in either the same thin condition as when
they arrived or slightly worse. Why is this?

[LexInVA]

Let's hope these folks know that they are now being watched and act responsibly and rationally when it comes to doing their work.

[arabhorse2]

I am SO glad to see this poor guy was euthed. I know it is so hard to let go, but the pain he had to be in just makes the choice easy.

Alittlegrey, no it shouldn't have been hard to let him go, especially considering the horrific pain he was in.

As much as it hurt me to put Conny down, I did it the very day he started having seizures and fell and broke his pelvis. Two Socks deserved nothing less.

I am appalled that this horse was allowed to suffer, especially by the very people who were supposed to prevent that from happening.

I am beyond grieved that I know this rescue and have met Pat. She seemed like a good sort, although a little too much 'save 'em no matter what' for my tastes.

RVHR appeared to be a decent rescue at some point, but I do believe they're in over their heads now.

[Foxtrot's]

Two Sock's may have lost his foot relatively recently, but the underlying abcesses have been going on for months and months in both feet, it seems. He must have gone through hell. Poor boy, but thanks to the pressure put on authorities by you guys and others around the world, he got his relief.

[Cayusepapoose]

Just got an email from a Dan Kovich on behalf of Dr. Wilkes to say that TS was euthanized yesterday.
Thank God, thank you every one that stood up for what is right. Godspeed, TwoSocks.

[MVR]

--- On Tue, 9/1/09, Raquel Ferotti <mountainviewrescue@yahoo.com> wrote:


From: Raquel Ferotti <mountainviewrescue@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RVHR
To: "Dan Kovich" <Dan.Kovich@vdacs.virginia.gov>
Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 12:06 PM

Thank you for your reply. I sincerely hope that someone besides Franklin Co Animal Control will be looking into the general un-thriftiness of this entire herd. Loss of condition is present in every one of the equines on that property.

When speaking to Keith Holland, the animal control officer who attended this situation, he admitted that he doesn't know anything about horses, and relies on Pat Muncy (president of RVHR) to direct him in all cases equine. Obviously there are problems there when a horse with no foot is made to stand suffering and untreated for a week. Mr. Holland assured me it was in no pain. Did that look like an un-painful injury to you? Did you notice the pressure soars on this horses body form being down and thrashing, unable to get up? Do you have a copy of the vet's findings and proof this horse has been humanly euthanized? Do you realize that Mr. Holland does not even know what the Henneke Scale is????

I am attempting to intervene in what I consider a potentially critical situation. Clearly not any of these horses are getting the proper care they require. Its only a matter of time before we see another waste away to nothing. Franklin County Animal Control can obviously not be relied on to provide proper evaluation & intervention when they are depending on individuals with no formal training who clearly don't know a life threatening injury when they see one. Or how to PREVENT one! How do you explain the loss of condition this horse shows all the way up his death? Whether due to ignorance or otherwise, this is not acceptable standards of care from any horse owners, let along a public charity soliciting donations to be helping horses. I sincerely hope your office takes this situation seriously before its too late.

I will be doing everything in my power to follow up and make sure these horses are receiving the care they deserve. Its too bad the people who are being paid our tax dollars to do so are failing the horses so miserably.

Raquel Ferotti
Founder/ President
Mountain View Rescue

--- On Tue, 9/1/09, Dan Kovich <Dan.Kovich@vdacs.virginia.gov> wrote:


From: Dan Kovich <Dan.Kovich@vdacs.virginia.gov>
Subject: Re: RVHR
To: "Raquel Ferotti" <mountainviewrescue@yahoo.com>
Cc: "Richard Wilkes" <Richard.Wilkes@vdacs.virginia.gov>
Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 11:25 AM

Dear Ms. Ferotti,

On behalf of Dr. Wilkes, thank you for your concern regarding the welfare of this horse. We have been in contact with Franklin County Animal Control, who made several visits to the premises where the horse is stabled. The horse had been under veterinary care, and was euthanized yesterday by the attending veterinarian.

Sincerely,

Daniel A. Kovich, DVM, MPH
Staff Veterinarian for Animal Care and Health Policy
Office of Animal Care and Health Policy
Virginia Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services
804-786-2483 (Office)
804-840-8981 (Cell)
804-371-2380 (Fax)
dan.kovich@vdacs.virginia.gov

>>> Raquel Ferotti <mountainviewrescue@yahoo.com> 8/31/2009 12:40 AM >>>
Friday I wrote the following email to the Roanoke SPCA, VA HSUS Director Ann Church, as well as the Roanoke animal control & USERL VA:

Let me start out by saying, I am the president of a 501(c)3 horse
rescue in south central KY. The link below was posted on a horse rescue
forum that I am a member of.
http://www.rvhr.com/twosocks.shtml I am very concerned regarding the condition of this horse. There is no mention of veterinary assistance
and this animal is clearly suffering. The entire herd looks poor and
un-thrifty. Please send someone out to this property to investigate
& evaluate conditions there.
1725 Edwardsville Rd Edit Hardy, VA 24101-4635 I believe there are horses in need of immediate veterinary care that they are not receiving.


RVHR has since pulled the page from their public website, but left them on the server, replacing it with these updates:
http://www.rvhr.com/

But what they obviously don't know is the files can still be accessed on the server

http://www.rvhr.com/images/two%20socks/

Let me outline the situation for you for quick reference:
May 11, 2009 - excellent body condition and 4 hooves

http://www.rvhr.com/images/two%20socks/IMG_0105.JPG



Aug 24, 2009: injury found

http://www.rvhr.com/images/two%20socks/IMG_2801.JPG

http://www.rvhr.com/images/two%20socks/IMG_2846.JPG

http://www.rvhr.com/images/two%20socks/IMG_2848.JPG



Aug 24, they lead him from his stall out onto the grass for pictures?!!:

http://www.rvhr.com/images/two%20socks/IMG_2851.JPG

http://www.rvhr.com/images/two%20socks/IMG_2853.JPG

http://www.rvhr.com/images/two%20socks/IMG_2857.JPG



Look how his body condition has deteriorates since May: http://www.rvhr.com/images/two%20socks/IMG_2861.JPG


Standing in ace bandages with no hoof and minimal padding. Also notice the presence of swat applied to superficial wounds possibly due to being down and thrashing.:http://www.rvhr.com/images/two%20socks/IMG_2863.JPG



Aug 28 - four days later, they lead him on his stump AGAIN out to the grass to get pictures:

http://www.rvhr.com/images/two%20socks/IMG_2870.JPG

http://www.rvhr.com/images/two%20socks/IMG_2872.JPG

http://www.rvhr.com/images/two%20socks/IMG_2873.JPG

http://www.rvhr.com/images/two%20socks/IMG_2875.JPG



The most disturbing part is the principles of this organization are listed as animal control officers for Roanoke AC. I am sincerely concerned that there is no mention of vet care, and that they also removed the vet contact info from their website when they pulled Two Sock's page.

Everyone I have received correspondence back from seems to have no investigative power and has directed me to you. Please do send someone ASAP to check on this horse and the others at RVHR.

Please contact me to confirm you have received this.

Thank you,
Raquel Ferotti
Founder/ President
Mountain View Rescue

[equineelders]

Rest in Peace, old gentleman.

[LexInVA]

FYI, MVR, all of the files on the website pertaining to Two Socks were removed a few days ago.

[MVR]

FYI, MVR, all of the files on the website pertaining to Two Socks were removed a few days ago.

Yeah, that is my last Friday email. As its states.

[Appassionato]

Thank God! I hate to be so crass, but that poor horse didn't stand a chance. I'm glad he's at peace now.

WTG to everyone involved in trying to get this "rescue" to do the right thing, especially for Two Socks, but for the other horses too. They need saving as well. Winter is coming whether they are ready or not.

[Lazy Palomino Hunter]

I just got an email from Angela Hatcher saying that she'd like to talk to me about the case.

I think I'll call her back this afternoon when I'm finished with class- my plan is to lay out the following:

1) I saw the case online. The woman running the rescue had posted pictures of the horse's foot on her website.

2) The horse was clearly fine when they featured him in their news clip, and the pictures from this week (3 months later) clearly show that he had lost several hundred pounds. Whether this was due to some illness or him just not being fed, it is clear that he is (due to weight alone) in terrible condition.

3) The horse's injury was very grave. To compare to Barbaro- this horse's injury was FAR worse, and he was receiving insufficient care. Odds are really, really good that any vet in their right mind would have recommended immediate euthanasia- there is just NO WAY that ANY vet saw him and told this woman it was OK to let him walk around on it. This would include in his stall (as he clearly was), his paddock (which she stated he was on her website), or around the barn (as he is in pictures). Furthermore, it was positively horrifying that she allowed the wound to get packed with dirt and manure, as can be seen in the pictures she posted on her website.

4) The horse has been euthanized now, which is good. But the question remains as to how he was allowed to suffer for so long. I know that a large number of emails and calls were made to law enforcement at several levels, and the horse suffered for several days, CLEARLY without adequate care. He was allowed to deteriorate to the point where he was literally walking on bones. As seen in the pictures.

5) The woman in charge of this rescue seems to have some influence over animal control in the area, as her rescue is county funded. Everyone who was contacted seemed to think that she was competent, and that if she said the horse was fine, he was fine. It took inexcusably long for a state vet to go and euthanize him. Further, concerned citizens contacting authority were informed that the horse's injury was causing him "no pain," which is ludicrous.

6) While there are a large number of really fantastic rescues out there helping horses, something is amiss at this one. If you look at the horses listed on their website, it is clear the the majority are in the same or worse condition that how they arrived. Most are underweight and in poor coat. While there are likely health issues for some of the horses that barr maintaining good weight, it seems HIGHLY unlikely that the majority of horses in her care have conditions preventing them from carrying adequate weight.

Is there anything else I should say???

[MVR]

I just got an email from Angela Hatcher saying that she'd like to talk to me about the case.

I think I'll call her back this afternoon when I'm finished with class- my plan is to lay out the following:

1) I saw the case online. The woman running the rescue had posted pictures of the horse's foot on her website.

2) The horse was clearly fine when they featured him in their news clip, and the pictures from this week (3 months later) clearly show that he had lost several hundred pounds. Whether this was due to some illness or him just not being fed, it is clear that he is (due to weight alone) in terrible condition.

3) The horse's injury was very grave. To compare to Barbaro- this horse's injury was FAR worse, and he was receiving insufficient care. Odds are really, really good that any vet in their right mind would have recommended immediate euthanasia- there is just NO WAY that ANY vet saw him and told this woman it was OK to let him walk around on it. This would include in his stall (as he clearly was), his paddock (which she stated he was on her website), or around the barn (as he is in pictures). Furthermore, it was positively horrifying that she allowed the wound to get packed with dirt and manure, as can be seen in the pictures she posted on her website. Vet reports??

4) The horse has been euthanized now, which is good. But the question remains as to how he was allowed to suffer for so long. I know that a large number of emails and calls were made to law enforcement at several levels, and the horse suffered for several days, CLEARLY without adequate care. He was allowed to deteriorate to the point where he was literally walking on bones. As seen in the pictures.

5) The woman in charge of this rescue seems to have some influence over animal control in the area, as her rescue is county funded. Everyone who was contacted seemed to think that she was competent, and that if she said the horse was fine, he was fine. It took inexcusably long for a state vet to go and euthanize him.

6) While there are a large number of really fantastic rescues out there helping horses, something is amiss at this one. If you look at the horses listed on their website, it is clear the the majority are in the same or worse condition that how they arrived. Most are underweight and in poor coat. Possibly wormy. While there are likely health issues for some of the horses that barr maintaining good weight, it seems HIGHLY unlikely that the majority of horses in her care have conditions preventing them from carrying adequate weight. Loss of condition can be noted in several since their arrival, winter coming, etc.

Is there anything else I should say???
I think its great! I added a few things in bold

[Nezzy]

All, I just received this e-mail from the State Vet's office:

Dear Ms. Flanagan,

On behalf of Dr. Wilkes, thank you for your concern regarding the welfare of this horse. My staff has been in contact with Franklin County Animal Control, who made several visits to the premises where the horse is stabled. The horse had been under veterinary care, and was euthanized yesterday by the attending veterinarian.

Sincerely,

Daniel A. Kovich, DVM, MPH

Staff Veterinarian for Animal Care and Health Policy Office of Animal Care and Health Policy Virginia Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services

804-786-2483 (Office)
804-840-8981 (Cell)
804-371-2380 (Fax)
dan.kovich@vdacs.virginia.gov (dan.kovich@vdacs.virginia.gov)

So apparently Two Spots was euthed yesterday, thank God.

I'm hoping they'll do something about the other horses who need food and veterinary care, as well.

Thank you GOD. That poor baby. no more suffering.

[blackstallion2]

I just got an email from Angela Hatcher saying that she'd like to talk to me about the case...
Is there anything else I should say???

If you could just relay to her that this case really hit home with horse owners both locally, nationally and internationally, as there have been many rescue-rs in the news lately, who have been found guilty of neglecting horses who came to them in good faith, whose owners or local authorities believed would provide necessities, rehab, or rehome to a better place, only to later find out they were suffering in worse conditions (ie the multitude of dead horses found on the property of the "retirement" farm in Virginia). There needs to be a better system for inspecting and regulation "rescues" and keeping an eye on the horses in their care, before it's too late.

Thanks so much for doing this!!

RIP Two Socks... I will donate to my TB rescue in your honor today, and challenge each person touched by his story to donate to their local rescue as well.

[marta]

good job COTHERS!
he's finally at rest.

[JLMet]

LPH that's wonderful she wants to talk with you! Please keep us posted and I think you have and what MVP added are perfect, very thorough.