negotiating behaviorist rate?

[Lazy Palomino Hunter]

One of my cats, Peri, has an incredibly bizarre and disruptive habit. I'd rather not post it on the BB because it's rather awkward, but I have spoken to several veterinarians about it.

All have recommended a behaviorist. The problem is, even with the "rescue" discount I'd receive, her rates are still over $100 an hour. I'm a graduate student and I just can't afford this.

Several of my friends have suggested calling her and explaining that I'm a graduate student of limited means, and asking if we might be able to work out some further discount.

I respect the fact that this woman is quite busy and has an enormous amount of training, and I don't want to insult her. But the behavioral issue is fascinating (every single vet I've discussed it with has pointed out what an excellent case study it would make) and no one seems to have seen it before... or no how to help me.

Would it be unreasonable or really rude for me to try to "haggle" the cost down lower? What do I SAY when I'm calling? Should I mention how interesting his case is (I'm thinking that the fact that it is hardly a run-of-the-mill problem is to my advantage?)? I'm terrible at this sort of thing!

[Thomas_1]

I'm terrible at this sort of thing!

I'm thinking if you can't even say what the problem is that you've not got a cat in hell's chance of being assertive and confident enough to enter into negotiation.

I know I wouldn't reduce my rates just because a horse had a peculiar or unique or fascinating problem but hey ho, don't ask and you don't get.

Just take a deep breath and say you can't afford that much and any chance of a discounted rate for a fascinating case.

[GoForAGallop]

Oh, come on, you can't bait us like that! Tell us what exactly it is that your silly kitty does.

[Cita]

If you're not going to work with the behaviorist at full price anyway, because you can't afford it, what does it matter if you offend him/her? ;) Explain your problem, ask if rates are at all negotiable, and then if the person is offended and refuses you don't have to ever see them again.

[Lazy Palomino Hunter]

Ok, in light of these excellent points, I pulled myself together and called. It seems they're closed until Tuesday. Now, do I wait and call back then, or should I leave a message explaining my situation and telling them Kitteh's "problem"? :lol:

[fivehorses]

I have a dog with a horrid behavioral issue, well, a few. Separation anxiety, claustrophobia, noise, etc. She cannot be left alone without being sedated. She is on buscoprine for anxiety.
Locally, the vets didn't know what to do, one gave her ace, and then elavil(worse thing for her, made her more anxious).
Went to a behaviorist who worked at the SPCA...she told me to put her in a crate, as many vets told me to do. She also felt I wasn't a strong leader, since I allowed her to walk into the building before me, etc, etc. Ileft thinking the behaviorist really was doing textbook, and not applying textbook and reality to the situation! I was to leave the house with no comotion, just walk out, etc I had heard wonderful things about her to boot, but I felt she missed the mark with me and the dog.

Anyhow, this long story has an ending.

I brought her to tufts and they were horrified to hear what I had been thru...elavil, crating, etc.
Instead they prescribed appropriate for her medication. Second, behaviorally, they said...when I leave, make it a big deal, give her treats to have when I am gone, never crate her due to her claustrophobia, etc.
The doc is a bit arrogant, BUT, knew his stuff. My dog is not 100% better, but my house is.
My point, just because someone is 'excellent' doesn't necessarily mean so in every case.
secondly, I would try a teaching hospital who has an animal behaviourist on staff. It is not cheap, but as a graduate student, they may be able to help you...you will not know till you try.
Do a search on veterinarian animal behaviorists.

Sometimes you can do phone consults. Or, share your problem, and maybe some of us might be able to give you insight for free, never know if one of us has been through what you are going through.

I don't always think a certificate/degree is a guarrantee...and I do have my masters, but still feel book does not always mean common sense smart!

[Thomas_1]

Oh, come on, you can't bait us like that! Tell us what exactly it is that your silly kitty does.

Now I had a passing curiousity but being a horse trainer just thought "It won't be new and it will be an owner thing" ;)

[GoForAGallop]

Now I had a passing curiousity but being a horse trainer just thought "It won't be new and it will be an owner thing" ;)


Possibly...but if I'm recalling correctly, LPH has posted about Peri and his interesting antics before, and I'd love to hear more!

[Lazy Palomino Hunter]

Possibly...but if I'm recalling correctly, LPH has posted about Peri and his interesting antics before, and I'd love to hear more!

Nah, that was Puck (he's the brains of their operations). Peri is, as my vet very aptly described him, "obtuse."

And of the three vets I've spoken to about his "problem," the response has consistently been these three things, in sequence-
"What?!?!"
"I have NEVER heard of anything like that before."
"It would make a really interesting case study!"

[Thomas_1]

Nah, that was Puck (he's the brains of their operations). Peri is, as my vet very aptly described him, "obtuse."

And of the three vets I've spoken to about his "problem," the response has consistently been these three things, in sequence-
"What?!?!"
"I have NEVER heard of anything like that before."
"It would make a really interesting case study!"

Now I've got to "warn" you that's what I say to people all the time.

But then I've always abused the words "interesting" and "fascinating"

[Lazy Palomino Hunter]

I sent PMs to you both.

I welcome suggestions. :lol:

[Thomas_1]

I'd suggest saving your money and selling tickets :winkgrin:

[Lazy Palomino Hunter]

I'd suggest saving your money and selling tickets :winkgrin:

I think only a very select market would be interested.

And I'm pretty sure I don't want them hanging out in my apartment! :o

:lol: You're no help at all!

[lisae]

Could I get the info via PM too? I have some experience rehabbing Siamese (a breed that can get really weird...) and would enjoy having a crack at this one. Is he as odd as the cat I had that did panty/bra raids and then brought them downstairs to show to guests? :eek:

[Movin Artfully]

Have two female dogs that lived together peacefully for 2 years and then out of the blue have to be completely separated because of fight-to-the-death issues.

After thorough vet, trainer checks/advice we were referred to a behaviorist who was supposed to be like the doggie zen-master. I was referred to her by our K-9 unit.

At my wits end I send them to the behaviorist for a 4 day evaluation. In all of her voo-doo wisdom...her recommendation after ringing up the bill was "get rid of a dog". Hope you save yourself some money.

[Lazy Palomino Hunter]

Ok, so to the multitude of people who now know the situation... do you think it might be interesting enough to pique the behaviorist's interest and maybe inspire her to give me a bit of a discounted rate? :lol: Because that's the REAL question.

I sure know my poor roommate would appreciate it. Given the choice, he much prefers sleeping in HER room over mine... ;) :lol:

[Thomas_1]

Could I get the info via PM too? I have some experience rehabbing Siamese (a breed that can get really weird...) and would enjoy having a crack at this one. Is he as odd as the cat I had that did panty/bra raids and then brought them downstairs to show to guests? :eek:

Definitely odder than that!

[Lazy Palomino Hunter]

Definitely odder than that!

Glad to see I turned your opinion around.

(Maybe "relieved" is a better word that "glad"... haha. It just makes me feel a teeny bit better every time someone acknowledges that I'm not overreacting to something within the normal range of behavior.)

[Donkey]

Well now, I'm intrigued... my imagination is running wild.

I would give it a shot - interesting cause possibly coupled with a confirmed animal lover, you may get some help for interests sake/sympathy (if applicable).

For example, I have a friend who rehabs horses as a side business, she almost never turns away a hard luck case (I never said she was a good business women but has a heart of gold).

If it is something difficult to disclose/something you don't want recorded ;) in a brief message I would wait till Tuesday and try to get someone on the phone before leaving a message.

[Lazy Palomino Hunter]

Well now, I'm intrigued... my imagination is running wild.

If you'd like to know (especially if you think you might be able to take a stab at some advice!), just PM me.

If it is something difficult to disclose/something you don't want recorded ;) in a brief message I would wait till Tuesday and try to get someone on the phone before leaving a message.

Oh, I could definitely leave a message interesting enough to warrant at least a call back. But I think I'll wait until Tuesday and see if I can't get a person on the phone... more time to explain it all is probably better.

[Thomas_1]

You've not turned my opinion at all and I most definitely don't see it as a big issue either.

I'm thinking more "Now THAT is funny"

[JSwan]

Definitely odder than that!

If the "problem" puts the cat at risk of going blind or growing hair on his palms...... I know of an old chihuahua with the same problem.

[Thomas_1]

Never heard of it in a chihuahua but I believe it's something that teenage boys aspire to ;)

[Lazy Palomino Hunter]

If the "problem" puts the cat at risk of going blind or growing hair on his palms...... I know of an old chihuahua with the same problem.

I think it's safe to say that little palms should be completely fine.

Thomas_1- :lol: :lol: :lol:... but it's just a pipe dream, and they would certainly know it wouldn't be appropriate to, say... crawl into a guest's lap and do it. :eek:

[Chall]

OK, I'm guessing here.
The behaviors I'm thinking of are:
-territory marking
-owner marking (possessiveness)
-excitement brought on by smells and acting out the excitement
-inappropriate location of response
I believe cats are reactive to their owner's pheromones, sweat etc.
If cat is reacting to such, try providing a sacrifice shirt, towel etc with said pheromones in a place that is easy to cleanup, like the bathroom.
And I would suggest treating the cat like a minor child, i.e. all his TV watching should be during the family hour only;)

My female spayed cats spray urine backwards to mark their territory. They are indoor/outdoor cats so this behavior would be a disaster if it were indoor. But they only do it on the edge of their outdoor territory, (oddly enough a telephone pole, which should be a dogs territory, right?). So the behavior is allowable because of its location, but would be a problem if the location were elsewhere.
Try to move the response to an area where you can tolerate it.

P.S. If it's not your pheromones he's reacting to, have said guest provide an article of used clothing or bath towels. It has to be "dirty", i.e. marked with guest's sweat etc, not clean and washed.

[Thomas_1]

OK, I'm guessing here.
The behaviors I'm thinking of are:
-territory marking
-owner marking (possessiveness)
-excitement brought on by smells and acting out the excitement
-inappropriate location of response

You're way of the mark. Not even in the same territory.

It's much funnier than that.

Well I think it's funny. Clearly the OP and her friends don't :)

[Donkey]

I think the OP needs to market her little talent on the internets ;) With the right marketing he has to potential to become an internet sensation.

After all celebrities can get away with the worst behaviour...

[lisae]

Poor cat is now getting some serious ribbing.

[Guilherme]

Did I hear this right? $100/hr. for a "behaviorist"???

Damn, I'm in the wrong business.

Just more proof, I guess, that St. Phineas was right.

G.

[Ben and Me]

Did I hear this right? $100/hr. for a "behaviorist"???

Damn, I'm in the wrong business.

Just more proof, I guess, that St. Phineas was right.

G.

Many behaviorists are DVMs that have also done a residency and are board certified in animal behavior. So, they've gone through 6-8 years of schooling post college...$100/hour doesn't seem too unreasonable to me. Most doctors and lawyers charge well above that.

Good luck, LPH! I hope they'll be willing to work with you. If not, I wonder if you could use Care Credit?

[Mav226]

Tufts has a behavioral clinic that does online/fax/phone evaluations and consultations. They are supposed to be quite good. It isn't super expensive, I think $300-$400.

http://www.tufts.edu/vet/behavior/clinical.shtml

[twofatponies]

Oh come on! If you just post the problem here you'll get tons of free help! :lol::lol:

[Lazy Palomino Hunter]

Poor cat is now getting some serious ribbing.

And THAT is why it's staying restricted to PMs. :lol:

Thomas_1- I can definitely acknowledge the hilarity of it- I just would really, really like to figure out how to restrict it to a more... appropriate... range of situations.

Mav226- I'm having trouble justifying $100 to myself for this (he isn't necessarily hurting himself or anything, and I'm a poor graduate student)- $300-400 is out of the question for now!

twofatponies- I'm really not so sure about that. I've received some good suggestions via PM, but given that the three vets I've asked about it have been unable to stop themselves from laughing, I just can't do it. If you think you might be able to help, feel free to send me a PM and I'll fill you in.

[Bluey]

If it is that funny, how about making a video of that and sending it to some of those Funniest Video shows?
They pay well and that can help pay for your consulting behaviorist.:)

[Stacie]

You might try contacting a grad school that has a program in animal behavior. Grad students are always looking for interesting subjects for research and since the professors are over-seeing the research the quality of intervention should be tops.

[fivehorses]

are you that sensitive that you cannot post your cat's behavior issues/
I find this is either a game for you too, or just plain odd.
Guess I like people who are a bit more direct, than posting some come on post?
You must also play games in real life too...

[Mav226]

Mav226- I'm having trouble justifying $100 to myself for this (he isn't necessarily hurting himself or anything, and I'm a poor graduate student)- $300-400 is out of the question for now!

Sorry LPH, I was thinking you meant $100/hour for multiple hours. Seems like the one you found is already quite a bit cheaper than the Tufts route. Best of luck.

[Thomas_1]

My recommendation is a push and a firm NO.

Or for distance control a water spray and a firm NO.

and EVERY time. Not just when you think about it or it's bothering you.

And because that will save $100, please send $20 to leukaemia research :yes:;):D

[gloriginger]

someone please PM me what this crazy kitty is doing...

[Chall]

are you that sensitive that you cannot post your cat's behavior issues/
I find this is either a game for you too, or just plain odd.
Guess I like people who are a bit more direct, than posting some come on post?
You must also play games in real life too...
PM the OP for information. IMO she is correct for not posting the details. The thread is not "guess what my cat does" but "Negotiating behaviorist rate".

[Thomas_1]

Yeh.... but what the cat does is much more entertaining and interesting than what the behaviourist might charge ;)

[BLBGP]

http://www.spcamc.org/behavior-helpline.htm

And since I'm giving you this, I think you ought to PM me with the problem. :) If it's what I'm thinking, it's unusual and embarassing for owners, but not unheard of.

[goeslikestink]

My recommendation is a push and a firm NO.

Or for distance control a water spray and a firm NO.

and EVERY time. Not just when you think about it or it's bothering you.

And because that will save $100, please send $20 to leukaemia research :yes:;):D

what ever it is-- this works
simple short sharp shock with a tad of water doesnt hurt anyone man or beast

dont tell me its the equivelent to a dog grasping your leg ----

[Lazy Palomino Hunter]

I wish it were as simple as spraying him with some water. I have tried virtually every technique I know of (spray bottles, scolding, physically stopping him, etc.) and NOTHING works.

Trust me, if this were a simple fix, my veterinarian would have had a suggestion or I would have been able to figure it out on my own. Hence why I'm looking into behaviorists.

Of course, we are talking about the cat that will, if the lid is left up on the toilet, sit and splash all the water out, wait for it to refill, and repeat (*facepalm*). He's also been known to get into the shower.

Can someone explain to me why my two cats are SO freaking weird?

Regarding the behaviorist issue, though- I've contacted several vet schools inquiring about vet students looking for case studies for their behavior certification. Hopefully something will pan out! Thank you for the help and suggestions!

[JSwan]

Will someone PLEASE send me a pm telling me what this animal is doing? I can't stand the suspense!

He's not going to go blind or grow hair on his palms and he does things that teenage boys dream of.

It's a great riddle and it's making me crazy.

It's not what the old chihuahua does? Because the owner has to keep him locked in the tack room.

[JSwan]

OhMyGodOhMyGodOhMyGodOhMyGodOhMyGodOhMyGodOhMyGodO hMyGodOhMyGodOhMyGodOhMyGodOhMyGod:lol::lol::lol:: lol::lol::lol:

[shea'smom]

alright Jswan, now I have to know. I have my suspicions.....

[Personal Champ]

Someone PM me, too. I worked for a small animal vet all through college, and it's killing me!

[mustangtrailrider]

Will someone please let me know? I am curious as well.

I hope that his situation resolves with the help of the OP!

[Personal Champ]

Oh. My. God. :lol:

Sent the OP some suggestions.... not sure if they will help, but hoping they will! If not, I say charge admission.

[The Shadow]

I've resisted long enough! Someone please PM me. I can't imagine what it is...

[Cammie]

Okay, no helpful advice here, but you've got to give the guy some credit for originality!! Especially since it sounds like he's on the slower side when it comes to everything else! :lol:

You're just lucky the brain trust Puck hasn't caught on to the possibilities......:D

[mustangtrailrider]

I don't really think that you need a behaviourist. I think that there is enough information on the internet and you might be able to solve it yourself. It seems straight forward except the "presentation". I think that medication could help. It seems to be an OCD like behavior. It should be simple to solve...other than the presentation, I think that it is a common problem.

Good Luck

[coloredhorse]

OK, I've read through this whole thread and am absolutely dying of curiosity! LPH, please, please PM me and share your cat's behavior!

[Pancakes]

As a senior veterinary student, I may have heard of this before...please PM me with the behavior and I hope I can make some suggestions to help.

[Pancakes]

Ok, so while it's the first time I've heard of that behavior particularly, it's not dissimilar to other behaviors I've heard of, so I offered the OP my opinion and suggestions for start. I think medication is in order and a good place to start, since it seems very much like a compulsive behavior.

[SMF11]

Can someone explain to me why my two cats are SO freaking weird?



I have come to realize ALL cats are eccentric in varying degrees. :yes:

[horse_on_course]

Someone, please PM me.... My brain is going into overdrive with trying to come up with possibilities of what it could be...

[KLS]

MUST know about crazy kitty behavior; no guarantees of anything, I'm just freakin' curious. LPH, hope you get it worked out with the behaviorist AND with the cat.

[In the Air]

Now that I know what he is doing :lol::lol::lol:, I can only offer limited advice. We had a few primates that, well, did the same thing (or tried to) and as we were a research facility they did do a bit of experimenting with stopping this rather social indiscretion. A neck brace/collar thingy limits access unless they are rather limber (which said offender does seem rather). The other method for the truly desparate was adversion therapy, in this case something like this http://cgi.ebay.com/PetSafe-Ultrasonic-Cat-Dog-Trainer-No-Shock-Tone-Only-_W0QQitemZ310098087917QQcmdZViewItem may help.
I am so sorry for you but at the same time wondering it that show with the stupid pet tricks might be interested...:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::eek::eek::e ek::eek:

[JSwan]

I think that there is enough information on the internet and you might be able to solve it yourself.


The cat certainly seems to be able to.


:lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Vindicated]

I have no realy business knowing what this cat's issue is,
but it cannot be as bad as the things I have imagined-given the responses.

Does someone want to take pity on me and let me in on the secret? I will however respect the kitties privacy.

[BLBGP]

I don't think you need a behaviorist. Call one of the free help lines, talk to your vets about medication, or just ignore the little guy (or put him away when you have company).

[Auventera Two]

Awww, come on! Tell us what he does! Does he poop and then dress the turd up in a santa hat and push it in a baby stroller? Seriously, what does he do???????? :confused: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I used a behaviorist for one of my dogs, and it was the best decision I could have ever made for him. It's a lot of $$$$, but well worth it. :yes:

[Lazy Palomino Hunter]

Ok, I'm happy to PM everyone who has requested it (but you're going to have to wait a little bit, I'm off to class now!), but I'm going to ask the mods to lock the thread.

;) I appreciate all the input from everyone! I think it's time to let the thread die now. :lol: Peri doesn't need any more infamy.

[TheRedFox]

I used to work at the CVM here in Raleigh and my specialty was feline behavior. Would someone enlighten me with the problem? I will extend any advice that I can. I think I have a pretty good idea, especially since it was mentioned that there were some apes doing something similar..but I'll wait to hear before I put my foot in my mouth..

[goeslikestink]

spill the beans and pm me

[fivehorses]

according to a pm I rec'd from the op, since I was a bit irked at the baiting which seemed to be going on here...
The cat likes to masturbate is basically the issue.

[JSwan]

Oh no - sorry the OP was irked! I just thought it was awfully funny - though like the old chihuahua.... rather embarrassing when guests come over.

Sorry OP!:D

[Lazy Palomino Hunter]

Nah, not irked (fivehorses was the one who was irked, I was clarifying via PM). Fivehorses has it largely on the mark, although it's not so much masturbating as something more... oral. :sigh:

I would like this thread to die, though. Peri's gotten enough attention! :lol: I think I've caught up on PMs. If anyone wants the details and thinks they might be able to help me- please just send me a PM instead of responding to the thread. ;)

[Renn/aissance]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Sorry...

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[JSwan]

I gave you the only suggestion I could think of - which we agree isn't awfully practical 100% of the time.

But that Red Fox person looks like he/she/it may be just the person - did you see that post?

Good luck - and if you do find something that works will you please let me know? Because my friend really does not like keeping the dog in the tack room (tack room is nicer than my house but still...... )

Thanks - and seriously - good luck. :)

[Thomas_1]

I wish it were as simple as spraying him with some water. I have tried virtually every technique I know of (spray bottles, scolding, physically stopping him, etc.) and NOTHING works.

So you have your timing wrong and aren't using it effectively to stop the cat.

Remember I said either a push or a spray.

You could even bang a newspaper.

Take his dirty magazines away :winkgrin:

Just anything to break the habit.



Can someone explain to me why my two cats are SO freaking weird? Might be a common factor ;)

You sound like the lady who asked me why both her horses are similarly bad.

[fivehorses]

what about using one of those elizabethian collars they use on dogs to prevent them from pulling out their stitches?

My dog would not tolerate the tradtional plastic type, but did fine with the kind that you inflate and wear around the neck.
I think smartpak sells them, and if you could get a small size, it might prevent the behavior, at least when you are around.
Sometimes we can't cure a behavior, but have to do other things to not allow it to happen.

For what its worth, I spilled the beans because I could not stand the 'humor' and the tantalizing way the thread was going.
If you want help, we can be mature and discuss this as rational adults, or so I hope. Afterall, we all own animals and know about the birds and the bees and everything that goes along with it.

[fivehorses]

No offense to ph.d animal behaviorists, but I don't always think they have practical solutions.
I have used one, for my anxiety prone akita. Had to...needed the drugs for her. There was nothing we were going to do to change behavior...not at 10 years of age when this started. Fortunately, he agreed, and also felt others recommendations to crate her, ignore her, etc...all the traditional what you read about sep anxiety he threw out the window in her case.

Some people have common sense and others not so much. I honestly do not know what an animal behaviourist is going to tell you, dispense drugs maybe to suppress the libido. I think possibly deter/stop the behavior with something mechanical like the collar as well as meds that would help reduce the stimuli. Hopefully, a new pattern could be started, and weaned off the drugs and collar.
my point is, not all shrinks are capable of helping you. Some are good, some not so much. I am referring to the human kind as well.
good luck.

[Auventera Two]

I had a hunch that was the problem. If the cat is masturbating, take him to the vet and get blood work done. Is he neutered? He may have a hormone imbalance, and some medication may help.

There was a story on a horse board some years back about a gelding doing the same thing. Blood work showed a very high testosterone level, and they found out the horse had a retained testicle. If I remember right, they had puchased the "gelding" and the seller did not tell the buyer of the retained organ. But that was probably 7 years ago I read it and I can't remember the details.

[danceronice]

OH, if it's oral..uh..autoeroticism...well, if he's that flexible as I'm gathering without a PM for details, I have a book by a cat behaviorist that includes mention of a male cat who did exactly that. I don't recall offhand, and the book is in a packing box somewhere between Boston and Battle Creek so I don't have access, what solution she came up with, but the problem WAS fixable.

[Auventera Two]

Well, I got the PM and I think the cat is just a plain ole' wool sucker. It's common in cats, and all it is is misplaced nursing behavior. It can be cured with medication and behavior modification training. Some cats suck/chew on the corners of rugs, shoe laces, strings on mops, magazine pages, etc. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with anything sexual at all. The cat derives enjoyment, satisfaction and comfort from "nursing" on items in the environment. Some cats suck on their own toes or tip of their tail, their owners fingers or ear lobes while they sleep.

I would actually be happy that the cat is only focusing on himself, because wool suckers can destroy your house by sucking and chewing on everything they can get their mouth on.

For the OP, I would talk to a vet and a behaviorist and get the cat on a medication and behavior modification program. It is VERY fixable.

[mustangtrailrider]

I really don't think that the OP wanted this information to go any further. She has received a lot of good advice. I wish her luck.

[dalpal]

according to a pm I rec'd from the op, since I was a bit irked at the baiting which seemed to be going on here...
The cat likes to masturbate is basically the issue.

Yep..that's pretty much what I was guessing. :yes: I don't think there's really anything to be embarrassed about....I've seen mares throw themselves against the wall and stallions/geldings beating their bellies...not that big of a deal. Hope you get some help to resolve the issue.