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View Full Version : Arab people- opinions of this mare as a dressage prospect?



NJRider
Aug. 27, 2009, 11:21 AM
I know these are not the best photos because she was just loose in a pasture but I wanted to see what people thought about his horse as a dressage prospect. She is a true black 3 yr old purebred reg. Arabian (Crabbet/Polish), about 15h. She does not look like the typical Arab, which is interesting to me. She belongs to a very elderly lady who would like me to help get her sold. Unfortunately, she is at best halter broke, needs better nutrition and may not appeal to the typical "arab" person so I was thinking of other options. Her croup is more steep than an Arab and she has not slope to her pastern. Maybe straight in the shoulder but she is still narrow- still growing....
Fire Away!
http://s183.photobucket.com/albums/x233/jklfarm/Summers%20mare/

mp
Aug. 27, 2009, 12:42 PM
It's pretty hard to tell much from those photos. But except for her rather plain head, she looks pretty typical of the breed to me. Black is a plus, as so many people have read the book. ;)

I don't know that I'd try to market her as a dressage prospect. Arabians make excellent "do a little bit of everything" horses. If you can get some saddle training on her, that's the route I'd go.

mjhco
Aug. 27, 2009, 02:29 PM
If she has three good gaits and enjoys work, no reason not to try it.

Arizona DQ
Aug. 27, 2009, 02:35 PM
I was not able to access the photo but from your description saying she has a steep shoulder I would not be crazy about using her as a dressage prospect. Maybe just a good riding/pleasure horse?

Hampton Bay
Aug. 27, 2009, 07:53 PM
She looks nicely built compared to some of the Arab's today. I like the slope to her hind end, and she looks to have a good angle to her hocks. Her shoulder doesn't look too straight to really affect her ability to do some dressage.

Her neck is a bit low-set, but she is only 3 so that might change some. My 3-yo Arab still has some growing to do in the neck.

The real question is how does she move? Does she naturally keep her hind end under her? If so, then your job will be much easier.

But really, at this point you just want to put a good foundation on her and let a buyer pick what she ultimately does. You can't go wrong by putting correct training on her.

NJRider
Aug. 27, 2009, 07:59 PM
Thanks for all the input! I know the pix are awful. She is owned by a 90 year old long time Arab breeder who has cut drastically down on her herd due to her health. She has given several away and is now down to 4. The black seems like a nice quality and I would like to help her find a home, maybe a better quality home than where some of her giveaways ended up. I am not in the "Arab" world but I thought it would be helpful it she could be marketed in other areas. Am I wrong to assume the Arab people will not like her because she does not have one of those tiny heads? I like her look, reminds me of a Trakehner.
Thanks!

Dawn J-L
Aug. 27, 2009, 08:22 PM
I'd like to see her move to better assess her suitability, but I am betting she will blossom with some basic training. I suspect that she would not be out of place in either low level dressage or SHUS (sport horse under saddle) classes at the AHA shows. A basic dressage foundation would certainly be beneficial in any case. :-)

I once offered to help an elderly woman get her 15 year old Arab mare started under saddle. That Crabbet line mare was so incredibly fun to train and ride that I promptly sold my KWPN gelding and starting acquiring some nice Arabians. I've never looked back ;-)

She looks like a good old fashioned "using" Arab to me. She will certainly appeal to the kind of folks who appreciate that kind of horse. FWIW, she may also have suitability for endurance. Have fun and best wishes!

angel
Aug. 27, 2009, 09:29 PM
To really judge this mare, and the discipline to which she would best be suited, I'd need to see some video footage. Just looking at the stills, I think she would bridle well for lower level dressage or hunter. Her neck is too highset for a good western horse.

I like the clean throatlatch, and the fact that the neck ties high into the wither area. Should make collection easier. Many of the Polish Arabians do not have really typy dishes, but this head is clean, and from what I can see, the eyes are well-set and large. Ears are a little large, but as we say in the Arabian world...mare ears!:lol: Probably the rounded croup is the thing that might put people off the fastest, but for a performance person, this should not be a big deal. She looks as if she would have a lovely personality...definitely an "in your tent" mare.

Can you post some video so we can see how she moves? Also, tell us about the pedigree.

Dawn J-L
Aug. 27, 2009, 09:42 PM
(snip)Probably the rounded croup is the thing that might put people off the fastest, but for a performance person, this should not be a big deal.

For those seeking a sport horse discipline or an endurance horse, a horse with well angled hindquarters rather than a horizontal pelvis would be seen as highly desirable. A relatively level sacrum with a correctly angled pelvis would be fine and what the breed standard originally called for, but too many contemporary Arabs have a flat hip/pelvis along with their level sacrum/croup.

NJRider
Aug. 27, 2009, 09:43 PM
Here are her bloodlines (people who have access to the Arab club site can probably get more details) By Encore Khatim (AHA 288308) out of Sydneys Beauty (AHA 046521)
She is in a pasture that is pretty rough, the owner is 45 miles from me. I will get some video next time I am out that way, would need others to help since the owner is recovering from a broken hip. WHICH by the way, did not keep her from getting on her tractor the other day when I offered to clean her stalls. She bedded all the stalls (8 stalls) while I loaded the pick up bed of a truck with muck and unloaded all by hand! I am still recovering- this lady could have easily outworked me when she was a young 70 years old!
Horse people like this are so great, it is nice to be able to help her.

Chall
Aug. 27, 2009, 09:44 PM
I have a plain (purebred, registered) Arab who looks much like her. I'd say go for it. :)
My trainer assessed my guy with these guidelines:
Neck set on low =WP or hunter.
Dressage horses typically need their necks set on high.
Park/Country pleasure = needs high knee action

She has a smaller hind-end then mine, I think dressage training will help her develop her butt and support her (longish) back and get a little strength in her hind end.

My guy was trained hunter which suited his low set neck, daisy cutter (flat knee efficient stride) and his bent hind legs (is that called sickle hocked). He's a good hunter over small fences and totally honest.

Arabs are fun.

JLR1
Aug. 27, 2009, 09:53 PM
I own and love Arabians and I think she is very pretty. The Polish-bred horses are very athletic and could excel in a number of disciplines. Dressage and sport horse classes are growing every year and you would definitely find a market.

Nanerpus
Aug. 27, 2009, 10:38 PM
I've had a wonderful Polish gelding who I successfully showed 2nd level with, among all other disciplines until he was in his 20's - he was wonderful and a joy to ride. He was an *Aladdin grandson.

My current dressage mount is a 1/2 arab pony, and she is a Crabbet mare. Could not be more a pleasure to ride, work around, and train. She is, to look at, built downhill, among other things, but travels uphill and has lovely gaits. I rode with a clinician today who I saw once last winter, and as she was driving up to my house she said she remembered she really liked my mare, but couldn't remember why- and once she saw her moving she remembered why! This coming from a BN trainer, classical dressage rider, and well-known author in the dressage industry. This pony is in my signature if you want to see another Crabbet mare in action. I say go for it!

Dawn J-L
Aug. 27, 2009, 11:11 PM
I took a quick look at the pedigree and this mare is of predominantly Crabbet/CMK lineage. She appears to have in excess of 75% CMK lines so that with her qualifying sire and dam lines, she would be classified as a CMK heritage horse. There's not much Polish outside of Skowronek and Azja IV (both of which are also CMK in this context). The majority of her "outcross" lines appear to be Babson Egyptian. This is an old fashioned (pre-hype) American pedigree; this mare ought to have a good work ethic and will likely be at least moderately athletic.

NJRider
Aug. 27, 2009, 11:14 PM
Lovely horse!!


I've had a wonderful Polish gelding who I successfully showed 2nd level with, among all other disciplines until he was in his 20's - he was wonderful and a joy to ride. He was an *Aladdin grandson.

My current dressage mount is a 1/2 arab pony, and she is a Crabbet mare. Could not be more a pleasure to ride, work around, and train. She is, to look at, built downhill, among other things, but travels uphill and has lovely gaits. I rode with a clinician today who I saw once last winter, and as she was driving up to my house she said she remembered she really liked my mare, but couldn't remember why- and once she saw her moving she remembered why! This coming from a BN trainer, classical dressage rider, and well-known author in the dressage industry. This pony is in my signature if you want to see another Crabbet mare in action. I say go for it!

NJRider
Aug. 27, 2009, 11:16 PM
Thanks for looking this up and for the clarification. I have very little knowledge and knowing more facts can help be be of better assistance to her. I had Polish on the brain, I guess.

One thing I love is how in the Arab world, there really is a strong dedication to knowing bloodlines!


I took a quick look at the pedigree and this mare is of predominantly Crabbet/CMK lineage. She appears to have in excess of 75% CMK lines so that with her qualifying sire and dam lines, she would be classified as a CMK heritage horse. There's not much Polish outside of Skowronek and Azja IV (both of which are also CMK in this context). The majority of her "outcross" lines appear to be Babson Egyptian. This is an old fashioned (pre-hype) American pedigree; this mare ought to have a good work ethic and will likely be at least moderately athletic.

Icecapade
Aug. 28, 2009, 12:59 AM
I know these are not the best photos because she was just loose in a pasture but I wanted to see what people thought about his horse as a dressage prospect. She is a true black 3 yr old purebred reg. Arabian (Crabbet/Polish), about 15h. She does not look like the typical Arab, which is interesting to me. She belongs to a very elderly lady who would like me to help get her sold. Unfortunately, she is at best halter broke, needs better nutrition and may not appeal to the typical "arab" person so I was thinking of other options. Her croup is more steep than an Arab and she has not slope to her pastern. Maybe straight in the shoulder but she is still narrow- still growing....
Fire Away!
http://s183.photobucket.com/albums/x233/jklfarm/Summers%20mare/

Not crazy about her front end more for her shoulders/legs than her neck really but her hind end doesn't bother me too much.

And that silly flat croup crap is a halter horse thing- not an arab thing. bleck, hate that! much more fond of a butt that drops and can tuck and drive. =)

I agree- three solid gates and away you go! =)

JB
Aug. 28, 2009, 07:36 AM
Her neck is too highset for a good western horse.
You think?
http://www.dalebrowninc.com/FlashDale.jpg

Arab WP is not at all like QH WP :)

To the OP - it's hard to market an unbroken 3yo Arab as anything, unless the bloodlines are well-known. She won't sell for much unless she gets some solid w/t/c training on her, preferably with a good Dressage foundation. That really goes for any horse in her situation :)

Blkarab
Aug. 28, 2009, 05:24 PM
NJ-

She looks just like my mare did at 3. Especially conformationally. My mare is now being trained to piaffe and is doing very well with it, better than my trainer's Hanovarian.

Here are the challenges that we had to overcome:

Initially she really wanted to shorten her gaits behind and walk with stiff knees in front. We spent a lot of time and effort doing ground work to get her stronger and also to break her habit of wanting to jig. Driving from behind is key...still is, will always be.

Her trot is not the most pleasant to ride, but doable and her canter is so lovely and soft. Her walk is good now that we have corrected the above problem.

My mare is extremely talented, and once she figured out what was being asked of her, she loves it. She's also hard-headed and needs guidance from her rider. Lots of confidence that you want to take her someplace in the arena and not just mosey around. She'll come up with her own plan about things.

She was a bear to ride in the beginning. Spookish at times, hot at times, still has her hot and spooky moments, but not a bolter or rearer. She's sensitive in her back, and since she is not wide in front, her neck is wiggly and her balance is easily influenced. It is sometimes like riding ontop of a Ferrari or a very fast surfboard. She has taught me to be a much softer, calmer, more focused rider. I have to be. She can't tolerate anything less.

These have been the challenges....there have been double or even triple the rewards given to me by my girl. She is soooo loyal and loving. Cares for her rider and gives her heart to her work.

NJrider-I would go for it if I were you. She has a kind eye and the wonderful Polish/Crabbet build. At 15hh, she's not as tiny as my girl, so that will help with some of the balance issues. Once you get her healthy and fit, she will really love her work. Arabs are so much fun in that way.

apachepony1979
Aug. 28, 2009, 08:23 PM
She's cute. As long as she has a nice 3 beat canter and the ability to lengthen her gaits (especially at the trot for an arab) she shouldn't have a problem.

Hampton Bay
Aug. 28, 2009, 10:50 PM
For the sporthorse people, the non-dishy face will not be a big deal at all. And the fact that she is 15h will be in her favor as well.