Would you buy her?

[Buglet]

I have the opportunity to get a VERY cute OTTB, but I'm playing tug of war with myself on whether I should get her not not. I have the $ and my own farm, so I can easily afford her. She is very cute and a nice mover. No injuries or vices. She would make a very nice hunter. I would ultimately get her as a resale project (unless I completely fall in love with her and decide to keep her for myself). I can get her for under $1500 cause she really needs her feet done and is just sitting in a field.
But, I am having a hard time finding the time to ride my other two horses, let alone a third. I have two friends that are willing to ride her/my other horses 2 days a week, and I can usually ride 2-3 days a week.
At one point I really like her, then the next I am asking myself if I really need/want a third horse. I know that the market is saturated with horses, and now would not be the time to try to sell, but I keep thinking about what a nice horse she will (hopfully) make up to be.
Opinions?

[BearWithMe]

go for it!!!
if you can ride her 2x a week and your friends can at least once, then 3x a week is enough for her especially if she is out of shape

[zahena]

Why not? And you don't always have to RIDE, you can always lunge too. There's huge benefits to lunging. Think of the great new job you can give her!

[Maya01]

One thing that I see a lot is people buying horses for resale and ending up being stuck with the horse for one of many reasons. Just because she is cheap, doesn't mean you can profit off of her. In todays market, especially hunters, a thoroughbred has to be phenomenal to compete for buyers against the now lower priced warmbloods. So basically, vet check the horse (make sure there isn't a reason she is sitting in a field) and look at her and think to yourself; Does this horse really strike me as stunning? If not, then don't bother. To me, a horse has to have a wow factor if you ever want to sell it for a decent amount of money, even after the economy gets better. People expect the best quality horse for the smallest amount of money. So you have to be 100% sure of your decision, and if you do decide to buy it, treat it like fine china :lol: nothing like buying a horse for resale and they get their leg stuck in a fence and tear themselves to pieces. Oh the joys of the unpredictability of horses!

[Buglet]

She definately has the "wow" factor. She is jet black with a large star. She has a good pedigree, and I have a free breeding to a nice warmblood stallion next year (the mare I had on a free broodmare lease this year absorbed after 45 days). So, if she doesn't make out to be the hunter horse that I think she can, at least I would have a nice mare to breed next year.
One of the other drawbacks is that she isn't a large horse (which tends to sell easier in my opinion). She is only 15.3 and not overly large barreled.
I dont know what to do, and it is sooooo annoying.

[Christa P]

She definately has the "wow" factor. She is jet black with a large star. She has a good pedigree, and I have a free breeding to a nice warmblood stallion next year (the mare I had on a free broodmare lease this year absorbed after 45 days). So, if she doesn't make out to be the hunter horse that I think she can, at least I would have a nice mare to breed next year.
One of the other drawbacks is that she isn't a large horse (which tends to sell easier in my opinion). She is only 15.3 and not overly large barreled.
I dont know what to do, and it is sooooo annoying.



How old is she? If she is 4 or under she could easily grow an inch or 2 and hit that "magical" 16H.

I have 15.3H TB stallion (with a stick, on concrete) that people SWEAR is taller (he must be 16.1 or 16.2- nope:)). I think many people over estimate the height if thier horses so they don't believe a true height and think they need a taller horse.

Christa

[TooManyChickens]

In my area, I know several people looking for a nice quiet hunter, but I know for a fact that none of them would consider anything until 16h, especially for hunters. If it had extreme talent, and could get down the lines, and of course has the wow, then maybe.. but it sounds like it's gonna take some time to get to a point where you could really make some $ off of her. (I'm not at all criticizing your training skills, just saying that if she's sitting in a pasture now it'll take her a while to get back into things..) But it sounds like you've got a great situation for her there. Maybe she could be a nice eventing prospect?

As long as YOU are happy keeping her for a possible extended period of time, go for it! But like Maya said, there's always a risk. Sounds like you are like me.. seeing the greatest potential in everything. If she's really speaking to you, then do it.

[Trixie]

Did you seriously come on here and expect people to tell you NOT to buy a nice, cheap horse that you can afford? :lol:

[Coppers mom]

Coming from a strictly business perspective, don't do it. The farm I work at deals almost exclusively with off the track horses (we've sold 7 in the last 8 months alone), and this doesn't sound like a good money making scheme.

First, she's a mare. It shouldn't matter, but the huge majority of people don't want a mare. Especially not a little one (heck, most won't even look at a little gelding). We've had some nice mares, but the only one we've ever had that had the same amount of interest as the geldings was a 5 year old, 17 hand, heavy boned liver chestnut with 4 high whites and a blaze that would have easily won the hack no matter where she was. She was downright phenomenal, and that's the only time you'll get a ton of interest in a mare. There's a market for even "average" geldings, but people are a lot harder on mares simply because they have a friend who knows someone who had a whackadoo mare as a kid. It's not fair, but being a small mare is really, really going to count against her.

Plus, you're not sure on the amount of time you can commit to her. Two years goes by fast. Even if she's only 4 now, people aren't going to be sympathetic and willingly pop open their check book for a tiny, 6 year old mare that's only doing 2' courses because of inconsistant riding. If she progresses slowly because of your limited time, it's going to reflect badly on her. It's not fair, but that's how it goes. Depending on how long she's been off the track, she may need a big time commitment. You're not just going to be teaching a baby, you're going to have to untrain her AND build up from the very beginning.

I wouldn't look at this mare as a possible resale project. Maybe you'll sell her, but it probably won't be for a good while. If you want her, get her first to enjoy, and second to sell.

[bizbachfan]

I currently have a 15.3 hand TB mare, never raced but let sit for too long because her breeder/owner/trainer did not have enough time for her. She is super smart, great mover and jumper but she needs very consistent work. I ended up with her because her owner had to many TBs she had bred and there was no market and she literally could not feed all hers. I love her to death but I tried letting others work her for me and I find its rather difficult at this point to really progress with her since we don't all give her the same cues, etc.

All I can say is lots of TBs need a lot of attention so if you already have two other horses I would be wary. The one I have was trained in the basics of dressage and jumping by a very competent trainer but unless she is worked several days in a row every week she is super fresh.

Of course every horse is different, but honestly a 15.3 OTTB mare is a dime a dozen here in Florida. Unless you get her to where she is winning at local shows and doing well at the occassional rated show you will likely not make much money. As far as breeding her, well I wouldn't be breeding anything right now because the market is so saturated but thats up to you.

I don't blame you I would be very tempted too. If you think you have the time and she has the talent then go for it. But just figure in you may be keeping her for a long time.

Good luck.

[Cinnybren]

Earlier this year I was contemplating a similar, do I need three horses situation.

So I have my retired jumper mare, and her 3 yo son. My mare produces very nice foals and is such a nice mare, that I was really, really tempted to breed her for another foal (Good Lord stallion shopping is FUN!). Then, I really thought it though. I know I'd have a really hard time parting with any of her babies, she's my mare of a lifetime. So, I'd have three horses at our farm. I work full time and sometimes getting leg over both multiple days a week is a challenge, plus the added upkeep of a third (I have mine at home too, but it adds up!). I decided, that as much as I'd like another, it just wasn't a good idea and passed.

In your situation, the re-sale market is weak right now, and for a less than 16h, mare...it's going to be a little worse. So, you'll most likely have this horse as a long term project at best. Having friends to help is great, but sometimes things happen, someone gets hurt/sick etc.. and you could end up the only rider for your three and you've said getting the two you already have ridden can be challenging. In your place, I be darned temped too, but in the end, I would most likely pass.

[mew]

I would not touch a mare under 15.3. . .unless you want to hold on to her until she is winning at the A shows. Just not a good market for that type of thing.

[ryansgirl]

Did you seriously come on here and expect people to tell you NOT to buy a nice, cheap horse that you can afford? :lol:

:lol::lol::lol:

That was my thought too! I'd buy her w/out question. She sounds super nice and I personally love OTTB's :yes:.

If she doesn't make it as a hunter (as people seemed obsessed w/ size and want as big as possible) then she could turn into a nice little eventer for someone and size isn't really an issue there. TB's make great eventers :yes:.

(side note: I have an OTTB mare who is 14.3 and I wouldn't trade her for the world so to me size isn't a big issue :D)

[shawneeAcres]

Three things against her, 1) MARE 2) under 16 hands and 3) OTTB and did I mention MARE?! Seriously, I market horses quite a lot. I can sell almost ANY gelding but mares are MUCH MUCH harder. Does it make sense, really NO, but it is the way it is! The ONLY horses I have ever had to send home without getting sold have been mares. Never a gelding. Many of the mares I have sold have required cutting the price. It is a fact or life. And when you get under 16 hands and then throw OTTB into the mix, well, lets just say plan to feed her a LONG LONG time!:yes:

[Tha Ridge]

I think she sounds lovely, but I definitely understand where some of the other posters are coming from.

Not to hijack, but let's say someone buys 15.3 hand OTTB mare and gets her going consistently in the Baby Greens at the "A" shows. For argument's sake, we're talking about a nice jumping, good moving horse. Do you all still think that that's a tough horse to market?

I've never owned or sold a mare, so just curious. Also, considering I had a Small Junior Hunter, I'm also confused by the bias against the smaller horses here. What do you think Small Juniors are? They're all under 16 hands and are super competitive.

[shawneeAcres]

I know of a LOVELY mare right now for sale. This mare is about 15.3, she is a 9 yr old OTTB. She is NOT at my barn although she used to board and train at my barn (before owner decided to sell her). THe mare has been champion in pre-childrens/adults several times. She always wins the hack. She has EXCELLENT form and could very likely do the 3'6" with the right rider/schooling. She is truly a lovely horse and she cannot get her sold for $7500! She is very close to donating this nice mare. So that is the harsh reality. I wish SO MUCH that I had someone to buy her because she is truly worth the money, but I do not right now.

[HJPony]

I wouldn't do it.

For one, there's only so much time in a day. If you don't have the time to commit to a green horse than your green horse will probably turn into a giant problem child. If you don't have the time, I hate to say it but, she is just going to age older and loose any value as a prospect horse. Unless of course you are willing to commit your time and energy into putting this mare into a training program.
I also think that you'll get to the point where you don't have enough time to ride her, therefore you can't pay attention to your other horses either. Maybe I'm different than you but when I'm pressured for time and have a plethora of horses to ride.. I just feel like I can't pay individual attention to each one, therefore I'll pay no attention at all. Evidently, I won't go up to the farm that day.

As far as resale goes:
She's off the track which sometimes comes with problems in itself.
She's a mare..that statement simply will turn a buyer off which is so unfortunate.
She's smaller. I love a small athletic looking horse but most people want a bigger horse because the age old myth of "they can jump bigger fences" or "my seven year old daughter can grow into her."

In closing, if you're questioning buying her..it's probably not the right time to add a third to your farm.

[unclewiggly]

Coming from a strictly business perspective, don't do it. The farm I work at deals almost exclusively with off the track horses (we've sold 7 in the last 8 months alone), and this doesn't sound like a good money making scheme.

First, she's a mare. It shouldn't matter, but the huge majority of people don't want a mare. Especially not a little one (heck, most won't even look at a little gelding). We've had some nice mares, but the only one we've ever had that had the same amount of interest as the geldings was a 5 year old, 17 hand, heavy boned liver chestnut with 4 high whites and a blaze that would have easily won the hack no matter where she was. She was downright phenomenal, and that's the only time you'll get a ton of interest in a mare. There's a market for even "average" geldings, but people are a lot harder on mares simply because they have a friend who knows someone who had a whackadoo mare as a kid. It's not fair, but being a small mare is really, really going to count against her.

Plus, you're not sure on the amount of time you can commit to her. Two years goes by fast. Even if she's only 4 now, people aren't going to be sympathetic and willingly pop open their check book for a tiny, 6 year old mare that's only doing 2' courses because of inconsistant riding. If she progresses slowly because of your limited time, it's going to reflect badly on her. It's not fair, but that's how it goes. Depending on how long she's been off the track, she may need a big time commitment. You're not just going to be teaching a baby, you're going to have to untrain her AND build up from the very beginning.

I wouldn't look at this mare as a possible resale project. Maybe you'll sell her, but it probably won't be for a good while. If you want her, get her first to enjoy, and second to sell.


Well PM me I had a call tonight for a small horse for a small woman.
And I know of at least 2 others looking for 16H tops don't care if its a mare.
I had a 16.2 3yr old who has WOW and talent will vet is quiet an very realisitc priced turned down because he was going to be "to big".
You can't guess the market, one mans junk anothers treasure.
Worse case you use the WB season on her and keep foal send her down the road for what you paid. If you like her that much.
Maybe one or both of the riding friends will share board her help cut down expenses.
She obviously struck a cord w/ you.
7 OTTB's in 8 months I did 18 in 8 months so far but who counts.

[Summerwood]

We buy TB's to train for polo and we buy only mares, and they need to be under 4 and 15-15.3 tops. We have bought a countless number of these mares over the years. I can tell you that we have had a few go over the 16 hand range, usually the ones who are 15.3 at 3 or 4. Look at her pedigree if you have access to her registered name. Does she have a lot of height in it? You can count on her growing for at least another 1-2 years. I had a mare grow until she was 7, she is now 16.1 and way tall for a polo pony (and she is a chestnut mare with chrome too). I had a few local hunter trainers wanting to buy her after she grew that much, and I doubt they would have touched her with a ten foot pole when she was 4 and 15.2 despite the fact that she is a beautiful mover!

As far as the price-I would try to negotiate. Not too many people are banging down the door for the under 16 hand horses, especially ones sitting in the field. You can get them consistently for under 1k right from the track (depending on the track of course). Sometimes they are just given to us because the trainers know we will give them a second chance at another life. Perhaps these people would really like one less mouth to feed and to have their mare go to a home where she has a chance to do something else besides stand in the field.

[virtus02]

I didn't finish reading all of the replies for this thread but I think as long as you can afford to care for her properly, even if she is not in an intense program, then you should buy her! Always ask yourself though if, you have limited time, will you be able to care for her and not feel as though you are neglecting her in anyway? OR putting her ahead of your other horses because these situations always make me so sad. If you are confident you can avoid those situations then I say GO FOR IT!!! Good luck, she sounds gorgeous!

[bizbachfan]

But, I am having a hard time finding the time to ride my other two horses, let alone a third. I have two friends that are willing to ride her/my other horses 2 days a week, and I can usually ride 2-3 days a week to me this is the key, are you really going to have time even on those 2-3 days to ride all three horses? I know with my TB I have to lunge her first (its just part of her routine she had always had and still needs) So riding her means grooming, lunging, tacking up, riding, hosing off, grooming, bonding time, (she is a huge puppy dog) Literally its 2 hours just for a short ride in the arena. (okay she is spoiled) but seriously would I have the enery to ride two others after that? No.

So just consider all the attention she might need.

[YankeeLawyer]

I have the opportunity to get a VERY cute OTTB, but I'm playing tug of war with myself on whether I should get her not not. I have the $ and my own farm, so I can easily afford her. She is very cute and a nice mover. No injuries or vices. She would make a very nice hunter. I would ultimately get her as a resale project (unless I completely fall in love with her and decide to keep her for myself). I can get her for under $1500 cause she really needs her feet done and is just sitting in a field.
But, I am having a hard time finding the time to ride my other two horses, let alone a third. I have two friends that are willing to ride her/my other horses 2 days a week, and I can usually ride 2-3 days a week.
At one point I really like her, then the next I am asking myself if I really need/want a third horse. I know that the market is saturated with horses, and now would not be the time to try to sell, but I keep thinking about what a nice horse she will (hopfully) make up to be.
Opinions?

Do NOT buy this horse as a resale projrect. ONLY buy her if you want her to enjoy yourself for the longterm. This is not a market in which to buy horses to flip. And based on your post, it does not sound like you have time for her anyway.

[YankeeLawyer]

So, if she doesn't make out to be the hunter horse that I think she can, at least I would have a nice mare to breed next year. .

UGHHHHHH. Has this mare ever done anything to indicate she should be bred? Do you even know? Please don't buy a $1500 horse with the notion you can always breed her if you can't re-sell her - why so you can have a mare AND foal you can't sell?

[Gry2Yng]

She definately has the "wow" factor. She is jet black with a large star. She has a good pedigree, and I have a free breeding to a nice warmblood stallion next year (the mare I had on a free broodmare lease this year absorbed after 45 days). So, if she doesn't make out to be the hunter horse that I think she can, at least I would have a nice mare to breed next year.
One of the other drawbacks is that she isn't a large horse (which tends to sell easier in my opinion). She is only 15.3 and not overly large barreled.
I dont know what to do, and it is sooooo annoying.

FWIW, had almost exactly the same mare. Total WOW, phenomenal mover. Small. Better than average jump. Very quiet, easy to work around. It was really hard to find a nice home for her. She was a blast to ride, but there was not profit in her. The girl who owns her now LOVES her and does really well at the local shows.

[findeight]

Not to hijack, but let's say someone buys 15.3 hand OTTB mare and gets her going consistently in the Baby Greens at the "A" shows. For argument's sake, we're talking about a nice jumping, good moving horse. Do you all still think that that's a tough horse to market?

....I'm also confused by the bias against the smaller horses here. What do you think Small Juniors are? They're all under 16 hands and are super competitive.

Any time you ask about selling or buying one specifically for resale you cannot keep forever?

OK, #1 it's not about what YOU like but what your potential buyer WANTS. 95% of them want a 16.2+ gelding.

#2 Baby Greens is not a nationally approved/pointed or restricted class and is not offered all the time at the actual USEF A level. 95% of buyers want something jumping more then 2' to 2'6" depending on the Baby Green definition in that area.

#3. I'm sorry but 2' to 2'6" is not going to prove the horse is a great jumper. In fact, many that are look like crap here while those that look real good low, can't get over the back rail of an oxer at 3'6". Or die in an in and out set at 13'6" because they lack the step.

If you want to resell, you need to pick something somebody else will want. Painful but true. Then, you have to train it to where somebody will buy it for enough money to pay you back. That's probably 3' with finished changes.

Spend a year or more making something that is 2'6" max with little or no show record and you joinn thousands of $7500 horses on the market marketed as "Adult" or "Junior" Hunters with absolutely no proof of that.

Now, you go buy for yourself? Buy what you want.

For OP, advising her to buy a 15.3 hand, untried and untrained TB mare FOR RESALE? Ummm...NOPE. For herself, whatever she wants.

Oh, the Small Juniors? Most at 15.3+, Strapless was almost 16 even. And they have PROVEN they can get the 3'6" at the shows.

[unclewiggly]

Any time you ask about selling or buying one specifically for resale you cannot keep forever?

OK, #1 it's not about what YOU like but what your potential buyer WANTS. 95% of them want a 16.2+ gelding.

#2 Baby Greens is not a nationally approved/pointed or restricted class and is not offered all the time at the actual USEF A level. 95% of buyers want something jumping more then 2' to 2'6" depending on the Baby Green definition in that area.

#3. I'm sorry but 2' to 2'6" is not going to prove the horse is a great jumper. In fact, many that are look like crap here while those that look real good low, can't get over the back rail of an oxer at 3'6". Or die in an in and out set at 13'6" because they lack the step.

If you want to resell, you need to pick something somebody else will want. Painful but true. Then, you have to train it to where somebody will buy it for enough money to pay you back. That's probably 3' with finished changes.

Spend a year or more making something that is 2'6" max with little or no show record and you joinn thousands of $7500 horses on the market marketed as "Adult" or "Junior" Hunters with absolutely no proof of that.

Now, you go buy for yourself? Buy what you want.

For OP, advising her to buy a 15.3 hand, untried and untrained TB mare FOR RESALE? Ummm...NOPE. For herself, whatever she wants.

Oh, the Small Juniors? Most at 15.3+, Strapless was almost 16 even. And they have PROVEN they can get the 3'6" at the shows.

Why rain on the OP parade??
If its the mare I think it is, she has the gaits, n step on track...plus she could try to see if her 2 riding buddies wanted to part lease her and help make her up, or breed to the WB or breed down to a small Med get a pony to make up. Lots of options and you know NOT everyone wants to do 3'6. And in todays market rideable and sound go a long way.
To make comparisions to Strapless is not Apples to Apples.
I have way more customers looking to pack round @ 2'6-2'9 than 3'6". Most don't have the pocket book for a 3'6" competative horse on the "AA" level unless its in a BNT barn in a program or showing.
But lots have the $$ to buy and be happy w/ something they can enjoy and be competative @ more local level.
As far as lead changes go, if this mare raced she will do her changes, its fun to see peoples faces who get on and OTTB canter round and figure 8 and get changes so easy, while they struggle w/ other horses who did not race.
And I will reiterate I get as many or more people lately who do not want big, the eventers are looking for smaller handier. Short legged riders have discovered those bigger horse are just to much of a challenge or uncomfortable to ride when you have short legs.
Kids coming off ponies often need a transition size horse.
I never got the impression she was looking to make up and sell a $30K-$50K horse, and while it costs just as much to keep a $1.00 horse or $100K its all in the eyes of the beholder.

[Coppers mom]

Well PM me I had a call tonight for a small horse for a small woman.
And I know of at least 2 others looking for 16H tops don't care if its a mare.
I had a 16.2 3yr old who has WOW and talent will vet is quiet an very realisitc priced turned down because he was going to be "to big".
You can't guess the market, one mans junk anothers treasure.
Worse case you use the WB season on her and keep foal send her down the road for what you paid. If you like her that much.
Maybe one or both of the riding friends will share board her help cut down expenses.
She obviously struck a cord w/ you.
7 OTTB's in 8 months I did 18 in 8 months so far but who counts.

This is possibly the silliest thing I've ever heard, guessing the market is easy: It's whatever sells the best. Of COURSE there are going to be people who want a smaller horse, don't care if it's a mare, etc etc. However, MOST do not. The majority of the people looking for hunters want something larger. The majority of people aren't interested in a mare. My mare is 15.1. She's perfect for me, but most other people wouldn't even want to look at her. She's too small for the average person. Because the market for horses like mine is limited, she isn't a good resale horse; you run the risk of loosing money in the end. Simple as that.

I don't understand the whole "who's counting" comment, this isn't a pissing contest. We don't take just anything on to sell, because "One man's junk is another man's treasure" isn't a smart way to do business. A horse who sits around because it needs a very specific type of buyer (it's overly lazy/hot, short/huge, etc) is going to cost you time and money in the long run that you most likely won't get compensated for on the sale of the horse. Just because they sell doesn't mean you make money at the end of the day.

[Coppers mom]

Why rain on the OP parade??
Not raining, she asked for advice. People have given her information on what does well, and advice about what sells well. It's not as if she's bought the horse and we're saying "Well congrats, you'll have the horse 'til it's 100 years old".

If its the mare I think it is, she has the gaits, n step on track...
I figured there was a reason you were so defensive over the whole thing. Do you own this horse or something? Just because she's a lovely horse doesn't mean she's a lovely horse for EVERYONE, that's all people are saying.

plus she could try to see if her 2 riding buddies wanted to part lease her and help make her up
I don't think that it's wise to rely on other people to help make things work. In the best case scenario, it will. But one shouldn't count on it.

, or breed to the WB or breed down to a small Med get a pony to make up.
Breeding just because you can't do anything with a mare is never a good answer. Then she'd have another horse to ride, feed, care for, pay vet bills on, etc. It's never a good idea to get a mare with the idea that if she doesn't turn out well, "just breed her".

Lots of options and you know NOT everyone wants to do 3'6. And in todays market rideable and sound go a long way.
No, not everyone wants to, but the MAJORITY want something nice that can do higher than 2'6". At least 3', even if it's in the future when the rider is more capable. Rideable and sound have always gone a long way, but the horse still has to appeal to the majority of people to make it a profiteable reasale prospect.

To make comparisions to Strapless is not Apples to Apples.
Yes it is. Strapless was in the small juniors, and that's what this horse would be doing. Strapless was absolutley phenomenal, and the point was to say "Is this mare nice enough to compare with other horses? Does she have the step and scope?". If she's not going to be a super nice small horse, it's not going to be worth it.

I have way more customers looking to pack round @ 2'6-2'9 than 3'6". Most don't have the pocket book for a 3'6" competative horse on the "AA" level unless its in a BNT barn in a program or showing.
But lots have the $$ to buy and be happy w/ something they can enjoy and be competative @ more local level.
Ah, this is why you've sold so many. You're just selling anything and everything. There's a world of difference between the local level kids wanting to do 2' for the rest of their lives and the kind of people that would (assumedly) be looking at a fancier horse like this little mare.

As far as lead changes go, if this mare raced she will do her changes, its fun to see peoples faces who get on and OTTB canter round and figure 8 and get changes so easy, while they struggle w/ other horses who did not race.
Yet another ridiculous thing. Some do lead changes, others don't. Just like any other horse. Saying "Oh, lead changes won't be a problem" because it's an OTTB who's been sitting in a pasture is being overly optimistic.

And I will reiterate I get as many or more people lately who do not want big, the eventers are looking for smaller handier.
Well that's super, she's looking at this horse as a hunter prospect.

Short legged riders have discovered those bigger horse are just to much of a challenge or uncomfortable to ride when you have short legs.
But how many short legged riders are there, compared to normal sized ones? Again, the average person is going to be too big on a smaller horse unless it has a really well sprung rib, which this horse does not, according to the OP.

Kids coming off ponies often need a transition size horse.
Again, it's not wise to rely on such a limited group of people.

I never got the impression she was looking to make up and sell a $30K-$50K horse, and while it costs just as much to keep a $1.00 horse or $100K its all in the eyes of the beholder.
Again, just craziness. A $1 horse costs the same to keep as a $10,000 one, yes. But if the $1 horse isn't going to end up as nice, and won't sell for as much of a profit, it's not worth it in the long run. It's only a deal if you're actually going to make money in the end.

Edited to add: By the way, do you count the six you "gifted" as part of the 18? It sounds to me like you just take anything and everything, and give them away if they won't sell. Since you wanted to compare our businesses, I just wanted to point out that that's the total opposite of what we do. We don't pander just anything here, only quality horses who have a good chance of going on and actually doing something above 2' at local shows. If that's your market, fine, but you need to understand that most people looking to resell are wanting a higher calibre of buyers than that.

[unclewiggly]

This is possibly the silliest thing I've ever heard, guessing the market is easy: It's whatever sells the best. Of COURSE there are going to be people who want a smaller horse, don't care if it's a mare, etc etc. However, MOST do not. The majority of the people looking for hunters want something larger. The majority of people aren't interested in a mare. My mare is 15.1. She's perfect for me, but most other people wouldn't even want to look at her. She's too small for the average person. Because the market for horses like mine is limited, she isn't a good resale horse; you run the risk of loosing money in the end. Simple as that.

I don't understand the whole "who's counting" comment, this isn't a pissing contest. We don't take just anything on to sell, because "One man's junk is another man's treasure" isn't a smart way to do business. A horse who sits around because it needs a very specific type of buyer (it's overly lazy/hot, short/huge, etc) is going to cost you time and money in the long run that you most likely won't get compensated for on the sale of the horse. Just because they sell doesn't mean you make money at the end of the day.

Do you know for a fact this OP has a business, or is a Hobby seller?
W/O seeing horse you can make these assumptions and you are not even in same state.
I sold a SMALL Stud Colt OTTB (12/09) who was barely 15.3 probably closer to 15.2 with absolutely no show time, less than 10 times under tack after letting down from racing. He didn't jump a single 3'6" fence and I had them lined up for him in the 5 figure's (got my price) plus his pedigree was OK he never won a stakes race, was sold to a very Posh H/J barn to be show hunter...as Duh Small Jr. and he's being gelded.
You know who are the only people who push for 16.2+..the foxhunter people, they want big, big bones. big feet, big heart.
Of the 18 or so I have sold this year 2 mares @ 17H, 3 geldings who were true 16.2.
A 3yr filly chestnut 15.2 w/ white face and 2 white hind socks everything color size age were to the negotive. Sold her 2 years ago not cheap.
Well darn it all "Holly Go Lightly" WON the 5yr jumper champion in Lex KY this summer and will go back for finals in fall. Her owners bought her to be...a small Jr prospect but transitioned to jumpers when her talent popped up.
I have 2 more fancy geldings 15.2 - 16H not priced dirt cheap who are getting plenty of action.
When this economy tanked horses sold better than ever around here, markets are regionally dictated.
And no one w/O a crystal ball even has the slightest idea what the OP's prospective purchase would or could be good @.
No 2 people see the same in any one horse.
And you can see trends and make short sighted predictions.

[bizbachfan]

I still think the biggest issue is time. If the OP is having trouble riding her two horses, why get a third? True it could turn out great and she might bring her along nicely and easily find a buyer... or anything could happen. Horse gets hurt, goes lame, etc. She could just turn out to have attitude issues, etc who knows? Point is if you don't have enough time just doesn't make sense. I definitely would not buy to breed, why when there are so many horses needing homes.

Of course in the end its up to the OP to do what she wants but at least she is getting a lot of input.

[Coppers mom]

Do you know for a fact this OP has a business, or is a Hobby seller?
W/O seeing horse you can make these assumptions and you are not even in same state.
I sold a SMALL Stud Colt OTTB (12/09) who was barely 15.3 probably closer to 15.2 with absolutely no show time, less than 10 times under tack after letting down from racing. He didn't jump a single 3'6" fence and I had them lined up for him in the 5 figure's (got my price) plus his pedigree was OK he never won a stakes race, was sold to a very Posh H/J barn to be show hunter...as Duh Small Jr. and he's being gelded.
You know who are the only people who push for 16.2+..the foxhunter people, they want big, big bones. big feet, big heart.
Of the 18 or so I have sold this year 2 mares @ 17H, 3 geldings who were true 16.2.
A 3yr filly chestnut 15.2 w/ white face and 2 white hind socks everything color size age were to the negotive. Sold her 2 years ago not cheap.
Well darn it all "Holly Go Lightly" WON the 5yr jumper champion in Lex KY this summer and will go back for finals in fall. Her owners bought her to be...a small Jr prospect but transitioned to jumpers when her talent popped up.
I have 2 more fancy geldings 15.2 - 16H not priced dirt cheap who are getting plenty of action.
When this economy tanked horses sold better than ever around here, markets are regionally dictated.
And no one w/O a crystal ball even has the slightest idea what the OP's prospective purchase would or could be good @.
No 2 people see the same in any one horse.
And you can see trends and make short sighted predictions.

It really doesn't matter how many smaller horses you've sold. As I've already said, there ARE people who want the smaller ones. However, the majority do not. You have a ton of horses, so of course you're going to sell several smaller ones. But the OP only has one. You or I may be able to say "Well, I have 5 that will work", and the buyer ends up liking the small horse (or the bigger horse, or any of the other horses that they didn't originally inquire about). But, the OP isn't going to be able to do that. She's not going to have other horses to entice people, and she's going to have to deal with their prejudices in full force because she is a single person with a single horse.

Foxhunters are definitely not the only group who want a larger horse. Have you ever wandered around when the equitation classes are going? What about the hunters? Some of those horses are massive, and most are over 16.2.

And saying that size preference is a regional thing is just silly. Are you implying that there are more short people in her state than mine? Enough to swing the market that much? I don't think so.

[Gry2Yng]

If she doesn't make it as a hunter (as people seemed obsessed w/ size and want as big as possible) then she could turn into a nice little eventer for someone and size isn't really an issue there. TB's make great eventers :yes:.



Eventers aren't into small horses any more than hunter/jumper people are. As I mentioned above. Had basically the same mare. VERY hard to find a home for one that small and most of my contacts are in the eventing world. This mare had a HUGE step AND the changes AND was fancy as all get out AND was quiet AND living in a show/sales barn. Very hard to get anyone to look at her. We just kept pulling her out in the middle of the group, even when people didn't want to see her. Eventually someone fell in love with her. As PP said, not a lot of people calling looking for a small green mare.

[unclewiggly]

No I am not saying her state has more short people.
It was a broader statement.
Point I have had clients come in from way up north because TB's are not in the majority there and also same for some western states. They (not I)claim quality of OTTB's better on Mid Eastern States.
Yes Equitation riders like Huge and so do alot of SideSaddle riders.
But who knows what this horse is going to end up doing or finishing at...and didn't the OP say she had 2 other horses??
Plus I am getting requests for the smaller horse, more this year than ever. Not something I would have ever dreamed would be selling well.
I purposely look to buy in the 16.1++ range.
I thought I would have to eat the colt and small filly, they were phenom's.
But I also sold a 16H (barely) gelding we had show milage on to a family of "vertically" challenged people looking and having a hard time finding just that.Small athletic ridable H/J talent.
Its all in the marketing, targeting your buyer group, painting the picture and getting exposure where it counts.
And no I sure as heck wouldn't want anyone to get stuck w/ a horse.
They all cost $$ no matter what you paid for them.
And I don't have a vast herd usually no more than 2-4 sale horses at any given time. But I am not silly.............

[findeight]

OK...let me clarify something here...I was referring to TWO different posters asking similar but not exactly the same question-maybe I was not so clear.

First, there was the OP. Don't know her. Don't know the horse. All I can base a response on are 4 things.
1) It's a totally untested as a Hunter OTTB.
2) It's well under 16 hands.
3) OP does not have time to ride the other horses she already has.
4) It is NOT for OP, she wants to flip it and at least get what's in it back.

Based on that I'd say OP does not have the time to commit to get this one going and a half finished 2' horse, even a quiet one, is not going to turn a big profit after a year or two even if it was cheap to start with.
Not even going into the wisdom of a PPE when buying specifically for resale-that PPE will run about the same as the price of the horse.

Then Tha Ridge asked about getting a 15.3 hand mare going in the Baby Greens (2'3" to 2'6" depending on area) as a sale strategy for one aiming for the Small Juniors. That is also a nope. That's no indication at all. if she gets that one going at 2'6" to 2'3", that is where her buyer will come from and that's going to limit price.

And, you know, if somebody does want to go 3'6", heard and read about a million brags "oh, it's got the step". If that were true, the Small Junior classes would not be half the size of the Large Juniors and Small Juniors that can get in there for a ribbon would not cost MORE then the average Large Junior that pins about the same in similar company.

If OP wants to buy what sounds like a pretty black mare? I got no problem with that. But specifically for resale under the conditions she describes? Going to be hard to get anybody out to look let alone ante up enough to make the whole thing profitable.

And, one other thing, when somebody says show horse, I do think on a somewhat more upper level and not automatically the backyard local show level...because if they want to sell for any decent amount, they need to go to that more upper level environment because that is where you can find a buyer at a higher price.

[magnolia73]

I like a mare. I have a mare, though I guess I know more people with geldings. Your downside is size- she may grow. Your upside- she's a unique color. That said, some people like a smaller horse.

Can you afford to lose money? To keep her? Do you like her? Making money might be a few thousand, but perhaps you enjoy the work.

I don't think anyone is stupid enough to think- risk free! LOL, we all know the risks. A 17H warmblood gelding is worthless if he has an accident that makes him unrideable. A pretty, sweet, well put together mare can at least be bred. (probably).

I don't know if 3x a week will be enough though. My horse is a 5-6 day a weeker. Maybe some of the more experineced can chime in. IMO- getting ridden 2-3 times a week could make for slow progress unless she is a naturally quiet horse that "gets it".

[Gry2Yng]

If that were true, the Small Junior classes would not be half the size of the Large Juniors and Small Juniors that can get in there for a ribbon would not cost MORE then the average Large Junior that pins about the same in similar company.



And I'd venture to guess that half of those "smalls" aren't actually smalls. ;)

[superpony123]

must have the "wow" factor to be worth it for resale! otherwise, don't buy!

one of my trainers just stumbled upon a FANTASTIC ottb mare. she was going to be put down by the owners because she didnt do so welll at the tracks :( [but she was rescued! :D] and let me tell you, what a great horse. she's only barely 3, and a plain solid dark bay, but she is PRETTY. vetted the other day and she's clean so my trainer just bought her :) she's seriously got one of the best hind ends ive ever seen. total hunter look too. and shes a cute little jumper! (shes hopped over a few little cavalettis on the lunge line just to see what she looks like) and my trainer is so in love already that she's not sure if she wants the horse to be a project! but anyway, THAT type of horse is a great resale project. this horse has some serious talent and potential. that's what you want to look for when you're looking for a successful resale project.

[unclewiggly]

I sent you a PM.
For what ever reason you seem to like poking a stick at me or do you just like playing w/ pointy objects.
You have no idea who my clientele base is or where my horses end up.
My re-sale numbers were excellant this year, way up from last year. And seem to be holding steady and we all know the low end market is dried up and the $30K - $75K is a tough one to crack w/O showing and spending alot. So I must be doing someting right.
The OP asked for opinions not for us to insult each other.
Again we are entitled to our opinions. If you like to debate politics is a good place.:yes:

[findeight]

...Maybe some of the more experineced can chime in. IMO- getting ridden 2-3 times a week could make for slow progress unless she is a naturally quiet horse that "gets it".

2 times a week will be impossible to get it broke, trained, started over fences and suitable to present to a buyer if the whole point of buying it is getting it sold in a year or two. Argueable that it will even retain enough from session to session to be able to advance on that schedual.

3 times a week is not much better when you have to get it W-T-C both ways, teach it to jump, teach it to understand getting down a line and get a lead change on it.

Breaking colts is a project in itself. Getting one saleable as even a lower level show horse takes a considerable committment timewise.

Even my 20 year old that still jumps at the shows gets 3 or 4 rides weekly. Any youngster needs at least that and 4 or 5 is really the way to get anything done, not 2 or 3.

[Coppers mom]

I sent you a PM.
For what ever reason you seem to like poking a stick at me or do you just like playing w/ pointy objects.
You have no idea who my clientele base is or where my horses end up.
My re-sale numbers were excellant this year, way up from last year. And seem to be holding steady and we all know the low end market is dried up and the $30K - $75K is a tough one to crack w/O showing and spending alot. So I must be doing someting right.
The OP asked for opinions not for us to insult each other.
Again we are entitled to our opinions. If you like to debate politics is a good place.:yes:

Yes, thank you, I really appreciated the name dropping and oddly typed resume.

I'm not poking sticks (you are the one who originally quoted me and insisted on comparing numbers), I just don't understand why you are so adament that this horse is going to sell quickly enough to make money off of. Yes, there are people out there looking for a smaller horse, but most don't, this is fairly well known. Just because someone with lots and lots of horses has sold some smaller ones doesn't mean that there's as big of a market as a larger gelding.

People like you and I can take on a smaller horse and sell it on because we have contacts, people already looking for something specific, previous people who didn't quite find what they were looking for on a prior visit, etc. But, a person with a single horse isn't going to quite have the same experience. For a person looking to sell one horse as a one time thing, their best bet is to go with something that the majority of the market is looking for. When you couple the OP's lack of time, the horse is a mare, and she's small, those are three big things that are going against a quick sell for this horse. Insisting that these things don't matter to people looking for a hunter is ridiculous.

If she really is so lovely, and you have such a demand for small horses, why don't you buy her?

[Ajierene]

And saying that size preference is a regional thing is just silly. Are you implying that there are more short people in her state than mine? Enough to swing the market that much? I don't think so.

Hey! Don't discount the small people....we are organizing....you just don't see us with your tallness!

AS the owner of a 15.2HH thoroughbred mare, I strongly advise against buying this horse unless you plan on keeping her for years.

I don't know anything about the market besides what is written here on the boards - which seems to indicate that on matter what discipline you are looking at the majority of the buyers want a gelding of at least 16HH.

What I do know is from the training side and riding three times a week will be fine until she gets into the swing of things, but it is not enough to really get her back in shape and get her trained enough to do well at rated shows.

Then there is the expense of another horse - can you afford to show the project horse as well as keep all three horses? What about showing your own horses?

It just does not seem to be a sound decision. If you had time to ride each horse five times a week (especially the project horse) and money to show as you want - then yes. This does not seem to be your circumstance, so step away from the pretty pony (I have to tell myself this all the time!)

[Coppers mom]

Hey! Don't discount the small people....we are organizing....you just don't see us with your tallness!

Pfft, I barely make 15 hands on a good day :lol:

[Buglet]

Thanks for all the input! I went and looked at her again over the weekend. Even though I found her to be stunning, I decided to pass. She has nice bloodlines which would have been good if I wanted to breed her, but in the end I decided that I really need to focus any extra time I have on my other two horses.

[bizbachfan]

Sounds pretty reasonable to me :)

[Muleskick]

She definately has the "wow" factor. She is jet black with a large star. She has a good pedigree, and I have a free breeding to a nice warmblood stallion next year (the mare I had on a free broodmare lease this year absorbed after 45 days). So, if she doesn't make out to be the hunter horse that I think she can, at least I would have a nice mare to breed next year.
One of the other drawbacks is that she isn't a large horse (which tends to sell easier in my opinion). She is only 15.3 and not overly large barreled.
I dont know what to do, and it is sooooo annoying.

I came across this thread and find it paticulaly interesting.
I have an ad out for a jet black OTTB filly that is 15.3 with a large star. She is currently turned out with our broodmares, and is barefoot and would need her feet done to start riding her. She is pretty, a good mover, clean legged, has no vices and a good pedigree.
I had a girl from MD call me early in the week I informed her of all of this and she wanted to come and look at her, over the weekend. She wanted a horse to make up into a 3 ft. horse and ride and show and eventually sell. She said she had a breeding to a warm blood stallion, because the mare she bred had absorbed so she inquired about her pedigree. The filly is priced at 1500$ negotiable.
The girl called me back and said she would like to bring her trailer when she came on the weekend so she would'nt have to make two trips, I told her that was fine. She called me Fridat to confirm a Sunday morning appointment and make sure we had room for her four horse trailer I said of coarse we did. However she called me back on Saturday afternoon to tell me she bought another horse and would not be coming...
COINCIDENT??

[Muleskick]

I have the opportunity to get a VERY cute OTTB, but I'm playing tug of war with myself on whether I should get her not not. I have the $ and my own farm, so I can easily afford her. She is very cute and a nice mover. No injuries or vices. She would make a very nice hunter. I would ultimately get her as a resale project (unless I completely fall in love with her and decide to keep her for myself). I can get her for under $1500 cause she really needs her feet done and is just sitting in a field.
But, I am having a hard time finding the time to ride my other two horses, let alone a third. I have two friends that are willing to ride her/my other horses 2 days a week, and I can usually ride 2-3 days a week.
At one point I really like her, then the next I am asking myself if I really need/want a third horse. I know that the market is saturated with horses, and now would not be the time to try to sell, but I keep thinking about what a nice horse she will (hopfully) make up to be.
Opinions?

This would have made my other post to long. I love to read this board and sometimes post, however I don't post nearly as much as I used to because just like on this thread someone asks for opinions and we all give ours because we all have them. And then a poster will give theirs and attack another posters opinion relentlessly. It's getting rediculous.
I have been in the horse bussiness for 30 years, shown hunters, breed shows and train throughbreds for the last twenty I have had litterally hundreds of them so I have gained alot of expeirence, but learn new every day. But everytime I post about a care question one or two have to attack.
Please can't we all just answer the questions asked to the best of our ability and stop immature mean attacks on other people.
I'm sure the OP's will read them all, use common sense and maybe learn something..I do..
Okay end of rant.
Just to clear things up, if this post is @ my jet black filly, I have her not any other poster on here. She does have the wow factor and properly prepared will be a nice 3ft horse and maybe beyond. She could be bred (and will be) she is an 80,000$ earner by a sire that earned 3.5 million and out of a 100% winner producer from the imediate family of several MGSWing sires.

[Coppers mom]

MulesKick? It's really not that big of a deal that the person didn't end up wanting your horse, I don't really get why you felt the need to defend your little mare. She's obviously nice, just not necessarily a resale project.

I do think it's odd that you type exactly like another poster on here. Same indentions, using titles, same diction, etc....

[Buglet]

Muleskick - the mare we went and looked at last week was in PA (just outside of Gettysburg). Is this where your mare is located?

[unclewiggly]

Sorry Coppers Mom, but not me.
Have been off computer all day.
But I am flattered someone else posts in a similar fashion.
And I re-iterate I do not own the black filly, an almost black gelding who is
16H but no black filly.
Actually thought this thread was dead.

[Muleskick]

MulesKick? It's really not that big of a deal that the person didn't end up wanting your horse, I don't really get why you felt the need to defend your little mare. She's obviously nice, just not necessarily a resale project.

I do think it's odd that you type exactly like another poster on here. Same indentions, using titles, same diction, etc....

No big deal she was'nt sold, she is a paying customer and a nice addition to the broodmares whose foals will be a nice addition to our program.
I am not defending my "little mare" as you put it. My point is I think you were all spoofed..

[Buglet]

Muleskick - no spoofing here, unless your farm is in PA and you had someone visit your farm once during the week and once on the weekend to look at the mare. The mare I looked at was named "Lily". She had a large irregular star. She also had a small snip of white on her nose and a one front sock. She had come off the track 2 months ago and has been sitting in a field since. The guy I spoke with said that he had no real plans for her and that he was just going to let her hang out for a while with his other horses. She still had her racing plates on, but her feet were way overgrown and one of the shoes was about to fall off. So, if this is your horse, then I agree with you that she was lovely. If it is not your horse, oh well, but yours does sound nice too.

[bizbachfan]

Though not as common as bays I am sure there are quite a few ottb black mares out there :)

[EquineRacers]

Ask yourself this. Does that mare really really need a new home? Or is the owner just going to let her sit there until sold? If the owner is really not in need of selling then I'd pass. If you hardly have the time now to ride yours, a 3rd will make it very hard (I have 3 horses) and your right about the market, its is horrible right now.

Now on the other hand if the mare really really needs a new place to go, take her, you'll be helping the mare out! :)