Need ideas for food aggression

[Mamy]

Fellow COTH'ers I need your wisdom. I got a new horse 4 weeks ago. He was not fed properly where he lived before, and we have been working on packing the groceries in. Yesterday one of the girls who feeds told me my horse is changing. I am now hearing from a few of the people who feed, as well as BO that my boy is not so nice at feeding time. The girls say he pins his ears , arches his neck and sort of lunges at them. BO said he lunged at her arm the other day.
Is there anything that can be done to help this? BO says once it starts, it pretty much stays that way. He is fine in other ways. I can groom him in his stall with no issues, riding is fine..... It's just this one area. Any insight?

[twofatponies]

He needs to stand back from the feed bucket while you put the feed in, then wait until you step back and say "dinner time" before approaching.

Someone with a firm, confident demeanor needs to teach him this, and best it is the trainer or BO, so a kid or helper doesn't get kicked. A stall is a small space to work in, and if he responds to the request to back up with a kick or lunge, the person dealing with it MUST have the skill and confidence to stand firm and reinforce the verbal/gesture request with a tap from a whip.

You DON'T want to "attack him" in his stall, and make him defensive or more aggressive. But just ask politely and then insist that he stand nicely back and wait until you give him a verbal/gesture cue to eat. Make it an exaggerated rule, until he gets the hang of the routine. But if anyone gets lunged at or kicked at and backs away or runs out of his stall, he has just won 10 points and he will be worse the next time, and it can quickly become a real danger, and likely he will start testing his dominance outside of the stall, too.

[JWB]

Come To Jesus meeting?

but seriously, it's a hard thing to fix. Make sure hay is thrown to the back of the stall and if possible put the feed pan at the back of the stall too so he feels secure that he's not going to have someone take his food. Then leave him alone when he's eating.

I can tell you what I'd do for a dog but I don't know if it would compute for a horse and you have to make sure you have a safe place to do this from and by all means avoid getting into a dangerous or confrontational encounter....

Feed him before the others so he's calm when the food comes out.... From a safe place, give him a SMALL portion (like 1-2 cups) of his grain in his bucket. When he finishes that and is calm, add another small portion. Keep adding small amounts of grain ONLY when he is calm and not agressive. Don't tease with the food.... Just ad more when he is calm. Let him know that calm behavior brings more good things and that you control and provide the resources.

The hard part about doing this in a large barn situation is that this would have to be done for EVERY meal for quite some time. Most BOs just don't have the time to do this with a boarder's horse.

Assuming the horse makes progress with this, the BO should continue to feed this horse first so he doesn't get emotional and upset when he hears the feed coming out.

Also, have you considered keeping chaff in front of him all the time so food isn't quite so precious? I don't know if this would work since this is something I'd do to train a dog, not a horse - but if I kept the horses at home (I don't) and I was dealing with the situation, I'd dig through my doggie bag of tricks.

[Saidapal]

Of course he can be retrained. This might be the reason they quit feeding him regularly which started the vicious cycle. He's probably had to fight for his food and doesn't realize yet he doesn't have to. I think this is a survival action...not that you can let him get away with it.

I agree completely with twofatponies. The person who works with him has got to be strong enough to stand up to him without challenging/bullying him. It's going to take someone with confidence and timing to work him through this and consistency is the key so it should be the same person who feeds him every time for a while and makes him stick with the new rule. I think once he figures it out you'll find him becoming calm and cooperative. Right now he's worried the food will go away.

Good luck.

[BuddyRoo]

Ditto.

My friend bought a very underweight horse last spring and he was VERY stall/food aggressive. To the point that at least initially, we used a "trap door" to put his feed in.

He had not been well cared for food wise and was having to fight for his share with other horses.

After about 6 weeks of regular meals, he finally got to the point where he seemed to realize that all was well.

[starkissed]

yes, this is dangerous and needs to be addressed ASAP.
Bring a long whip with a stiff handle and a lash. Crack it over the fence when you have the bucket so he stands back. Then walk in with the bucket and don't let him even THINK about coming up to you, and if he does, crack the whip. He should stand 20ft away from you facing you. And you should be able to pout the feed in the pan without him moving and leave the field without him moving. If he walks forward when you turn your back, again, whip.

You don't necessarily have to hit him with it, just crack it, and if he does get really close, then by all means hit him with it.

Usually my horses will try this ONCE when they are youngsters. Then never again after a lesson. And if they ever start to have those thoughts again, I bring out the stick and they back right off.

[Mamy]

yes, this is dangerous and needs to be addressed ASAP.
Bring a long whip with a stiff handle and a lash. Crack it over the fence when you have the bucket so he stands back. Then walk in with the bucket and don't let him even THINK about coming up to you, and if he does, crack the whip. He should stand 20ft away from you facing you. And you should be able to pout the feed in the pan without him moving and leave the field without him moving. If he walks forward when you turn your back, again, whip.

You don't necessarily have to hit him with it, just crack it, and if he does get really close, then by all means hit him with it.

Usually my horses will try this ONCE when they are youngsters. Then never again after a lesson. And if they ever start to have those thoughts again, I bring out the stick and they back right off.


Can this be done in the stall? Or do you think it would be too small of a space?
My BO tends to be a tad aggressive.. it's times like these I wish I owned a farm. I just can't get there for every feeding(5 kids sort of interfer or I would). I want to do something though.... alot of teen age girls work at the barn..(one told me she punched my horse in the nose the other day when he lunged at her!:no: I told her to please not do that again. ) I have to figure something out though, I don't want the attitude, nor do I want anyone to get hurt.

[S1969]

I don't know...not sure I'd recommend cracking a whip around a horse that is already keyed up. My mare was extremely underweight when I got her (~2 on the Henneke scale) and VERY food aggressive (who could blame her, she was starving!!!) She would spin in her stall and half-rear until her food came, then dive for it, ears pinned. It was pretty scary!

Rather than try to make her behave when she was this hysterical - I personally think it would have escalated her hysterical behavior - I simply tried to just reassure her that food was coming. I'd always make sure there was hay in her stall - especially at "grain" feeding time, and I'd feed her first. I think that horses having to listen to every other horse getting food first only caused more panic.

It did take some time but she is 100% better....I think she was probably 50% improved in about 3 months of regular FOOD....and got better and better as time went on. She *does* like her grain, of course, but she is not hysterical, and you can easily walk into her stall and retrieve her bucket at meal time and expect her to step back nicely. Of course I keep my mare at home so I had total control of how to handle this situation...not everyone has this luxury.

I'm sure it depends on the horse - in my case my mare was not *mean*, just desperate. I am positive that if I'd walked in with a crop it would not have improved her behavior, but only made her more anxious about food.

[twofatponies]

Do the horses have hay before grain? We always bring the horses in and each already has a big pile of hay to start on. Then the BM goes around and dumps the feed in (we have those access holes in the front of the stall to pour it into the bucket without entering the stall).

These situations are so delicate, because yes you must be utterly firm with the horse, but you also must NOT be aggressive or punitive. The point is not to punish the horse or terrify the horse. Many horses will stand back if you simple raise one hand (like "stop...in the name of love...") and look at them and firmly say "no. back." Others might need a whoosh or snap of the whip. But it must only be as little as necessary for the horse to step back, then all is fine and you continue calmly as if nothing happened. In other words, you have to remember to say "thank you" in your attitude each time the horse tries to follow your request, even for a split second.

It's tempting for some people to just start whacking at the horse in the stall, and that will make things worse, not better.

[Tamara in TN]

[QUOTE=Mamy;4317855]Fellow COTH'ers I need your wisdom. I got a new horse 4 weeks ago. He was not fed properly where he lived before, and we have been working on packing the groceries in. The girls say he pins his ears , arches his neck and sort of lunges at them. BO said he lunged at her arm the other day.


maybe now you know why they did'nt feed him????

[shakeytails]

One of my stallions was extremely food aggressive (mostly grain) when I got him. I was warned by the previous owner. My stalls have feed holes in the bars, and he'd lunge with teeth bared when I approached with his food. All I did was growl at him "You better not" and "Put your ears up". I didn't feed him until he acted civil, stood back from his feeder a bit, and put his ears up for at least a split second. For the most part he's pretty good now about food- though I'm not stupid enough to reach my hand in his feeder while he's eating. As for hay, I'd go in his stall with a buggy whip and an armload of hay. The whip was to slap the wall to make him pay attention and back well away from me. Not that I beat any of my horses, but I will especially not hit a stallion with a whip without damn good reason. I'd drop the hay and make him stay back (growling works great on all of my horses) until I said "OK".

[monstrpony]

You could consider using a flag instead of a whip. Doesn't have to be a fancy one (;)), just a Wal-Mart bag on the end of a dressage whip will do. And don't over-do it; just enough to get his attention and keep him out of your space, it can be surprising how little it takes.

If you have a variety of people dealing with him, you want to be careful about asking them to carry a whip; if they don't have alot of finesse w/ a whip, they risk hitting the horse instead of just cracking it and that could just make matters worse. A flag might be safer (for the horse) in this case.

Any of this is risky in a stall; any chance you could have him live in a stall w/ attached paddock, or a run-in, at least until things improve?

I have one who was also food-deprived, and used to be very demonstrative at feeding time. I set a reasonable line--he had to stay out of my space, but no judgements about his facial expressions--and enforced that, with just quick in, feed in bucket, then get out of his space. Just that, for a looooonng time. He's a cupcake today, but it did take a bit of time for him to gain confidence that the rules were real and would be enforced, and that the food would always be there (I think that's important for these guys, but it takes time).

[S1969]

I set a reasonable line--he had to stay out of my space, but no judgements about his facial expressions--and enforced that, with just quick in, feed in bucket, then get out of his space. Just that, for a looooonng time. He's a cupcake today, but it did take a bit of time for him to gain confidence that the rules were real and would be enforced, and that the food would always be there (I think that's important for these guys, but it takes time).

I like this. I think this is very fair to all. And, the calmer you stay, the more likely that the horse will pick up on the calm, but firm attitude.

[Mamy]

I like this. I think this is very fair to all. And, the calmer you stay, the more likely that the horse will pick up on the calm, but firm attitude.


I like this too, and love the flag idea. I am very happy where I board, and want to try to make things good for everyone who has to deal with my big guy.... I wish I could get there for every feeding....
I spoke to 2 other girls who feed today adn neither of them have had any issues with him, other than he pinnes his ears back. They tell him to knock it off and he does..But I do know he takes advantage if he senses fear or uncertianty... so maybe these 2 are just more sure of themselves.. I dunno.

I loved all the ideas, thank you all so much!

[GirlGeek]

Here's some video that might be helpful:

http://www.statelinetackvideolibrary.com/02/04_horse_training/04-aggressive-behavior-video.php

[Chall]

The whip was to slap the wall to make him pay attention and back well away from me. I will especially not hit a stallion with a whip without damn good reason. I'd drop the hay and make him stay back (growling works great on all of my horses) until I said "OK".
:yes:
I don't know anyone who uses these, but I wonder if an automatic feeder would help him get over the scarcity feeling.
http://www.quickfeed.com/products/category/Automatic%20Standard%20Feeders.aspx

[AKB]

I would make sure he is never hungry. He should have high quality, free choice, hay. Dengie will put weight on him if he doesn't eat enough hay. I would not feed him grain or any other food that he really likes. If his dinner is something like wet pellets or soaked alfalfa cubes with a balancer pellet, it won't seem so exciting to him. Then, you can work on disciplining him with a dressage whip if he pins his ears. You also might see if the barn owner can bring him in and feed him before the others so he doesn't have a chance to get worked up and so he has plenty of time to eat as much as he wants. If that doesn't work, I would send him to a professional for a few weeks.

[TBMaggie]

Lots of good advice for you here. My adopted TB is food aggressive too - and at first (for the first 3 months he was here) was also extremely paranoid if I went into his stall, for ANY reason. He'd twirl, pin his ears, lunge at me, show me his butt, etc. If I could get his halter on him (and he was mannerly about me asking him to drop his head if I had the halter), then I could get him to stand at least.

My boy needed the groceries too - and he still gets plenty excited about his grain. I stuck to a rigid schedule with him, and never threatened him with whips, flags, etc. I just tried to remain really calm and to not raise my voice, etc with him. He was already anxious. I fed/feed him first - and to start with, I could only manage to pour his grain over his dutch door into his bucket. He still is a horse who wants to be left alone while in his stall - and I'm willing to work around it. Plus, now he trusts me - If he gets pushy with me, I can back him off with just a "NO." Easy for me vs you.....my boy had only me to get used to, and I could control the situation because I am the only one dealing with him. I think that your horse will settle down in time, as long as he's not unduly punished for his nervousness.

And, it also sounds like a couple of the people who work with your new horse are a bit inexperienced, and unless they're working with the puppy-dog type of horse they lose it. I used to board, and I know - I could always tell when crazy Heidi worked, because my horse would be hanging from the rafters!

[mhtokay]

Can this be done in the stall? Or do you think it would be too small of a space?
My BO tends to be a tad aggressive.. it's times like these I wish I owned a farm. I just can't get there for every feeding(5 kids sort of interfer or I would). I want to do something though.... alot of teen age girls work at the barn..(one told me she punched my horse in the nose the other day when he lunged at her!:no: I told her to please not do that again. ) I have to figure something out though, I don't want the attitude, nor do I want anyone to get hurt.

why can't she punch him in the nose when he lunges at her? It's an aggressive behavior and he should get the 3 seconds of thinking he's going to die treatment. It's better when it's clear cut. This behavior gets this reaction. Picking and dancing around him will make it worse.

Mine don't get their feed if there's an ear pinned, let alone lunging.

[Hony]

I have one at my farm now that is a like that having gone through a similar experience to yours. He is improving quickly though. We try to get in and out quickly. We use a floor feeder so we can just open the door, set it in and get out. He seems to be responding to our calm, consistent behaviour during feeding time. He is still quite loud at feeding time but it has only been four weeks and he is much better behaved now.
Feeding time is a stressful time for horses so try to keep it as calm as you can.

[JohnDeere]

I agree with the firm but be paitient group.

A former horse has been with several onwers who have starved him at different times. Poor guy :no:. Anyway when he came back the last time from being underfed he was very food aggressive (not like when we had him). He was already fed and still pinnd his ears and rushed the front of the stall when you walked by. Since hes gotten food regular hes much better.

See what you can do to stay out of his space. Put the food in the pan and set the pan wherever--stall/corral/fence. Dont ask for trouble. Dont give him any reason to be aggressive. I think he will come round once he gets some meat on his bones. Then you can make him stand back & wait. Plus he will be more trusting of you & whoever is feeding him.

[Mamy]

Boy it seems there is one side of the coin here and the other, with no middle ground. Which is ok. I am glad to have many different ideas to try!! Thank you all for your input!!

I have spoken with the 5(plus BO) people who feed. 3 of the girls do not know what I am talking about. The other 2 girls(and BO) say he is just plain mean. I can work with him in his stall with no problems at all. I can tack, untack, groom, play whatever, with no issues. Even if he has food in the stall with him, he is no issue for me. I really need to get up there for a feeding and see what is going on. I hope to do that this week.
All I have heard about his past history is that his old owner had him living out 24-7 on grass. I do not know if he got hay, it sounded to me like he got no grain at all. I think his old owner just had no clue, and did not starve him intentionally....

[matryoshka]

He might have ulcers. A sore stomach will contribute to aggressive behavior at feeding.

I wouldn't put the feed at the back of the stall, because then you are in kicking range as you exit.

One of mine came back from a lease with a food-aggressive attitude: he had been in a competitive eating environment. I tie mine to a fence for their feed and stand on the other side to put their feed in. Frank doesn't get his feed until he shows me the right demeanor (I growl at him when he pins his ears or shakes his head). It takes patience and consistency, but it works. If we were in a stall, I'd have a carrot stick or other firm stick (don't like to use whips because there is no "poke" to those). We'd start with having him stand back until he gets permission to approach and work toward him standing back with a decent attitude (no pinned ears or head shaking). I much prefer verbal cues to using the stick, but at first, you'll need the stick to enforce the verbal.

The important thing is for everybody who feeds to be consistent in their expectations. Whatever method you choose, either the same people have to do it every time, or everybody who feeds has to learn how to behave around the horse. If they are scared of him, they shouldn't feed him.

[sketcher]

My initial reaction to a horse aggressively coming at me over food might be a good open handed swipe at his snout. That would have most likely been my knee-jerk, three second rule the first time.

However, this doesn't sound like a horse who needs physically aggressive treatment. He needs the firm and uncompromising laying out of the expectations that someone posted earlier, by someone confident enough to pull it off. He needs to not be confused by multiple people with different reactions towards this behavior. He needs to learn he is safe and will have food but that none of his current behaviors are going to continue to work for him in the future.

I like the method of asking him to back up in the stall ad wait for the grain to be poured and the feeder to step back every-single-time-he-is-fed - while giving him a kind but firm word and definite cues about what is expected of him in order for him to get his feed. Maybe teach him to back up on command and come forward in his stall when asked when it is not feeding time would make it easier for him to understand what is expected when his brain is a little fried over the food. And, keep the 3 second rule firmly in pace- this is not a situation to be overly physical or scary unless he is aggressive - that behavior earns a can of whoop-ass pronto.

I had a food aggressive mare recently. She was horrible to my filly. I sent her to a better situation and she is doing fabulous due to the consistent work the done with her but it has taken several months to change the behavior of a horse who had been starved.

[Fairview Horse Center]

why can't she punch him in the nose when he lunges at her? It's an aggressive behavior and he should get the 3 seconds of thinking he's going to die treatment. It's better when it's clear cut. This behavior gets this reaction. Picking and dancing around him will make it worse.

Mine don't get their feed if there's an ear pinned, let alone lunging.

Although I won't punch, a hard, open handed slap to the side of the muzzle would definitely be on the agenda. I make sure any hits count, as you only have a few to cure the problem. If that does not send him to the back of the stall with big eyes, and a worried snort, I would purchase a kids plastic wiffle ball bat. Usually just the sight of one of those will earn the respect, but I am not opposed to using it if needed. They must respect a human - always! They don't crowd their herd leader at his hay pile. That feed bucket is MINE until I leave it alone for the underling to clean up my leavings.

[LauraKY]

I would feed in the front, ask him to back up first. Do not give him feed if he won't take at least a half step back. I'm not saying withhold feed, take your time to get it right. In conjunction, you should be working on ground manners in the round pen; both backing up and moving the hindquarters over. Just be firm and consistent.

Interesting that some of the girls working with him don't know what you're talking about. It will probably take some probing to see what the other two are doing (or not doing).

[mrsbradbury]

I have dealt with these, as I do some "behaviorial rehab".

First, I disagree with the whip for any reason. The whip is a training aid, and not meant to use for purposes of aggression. We have an ASB who was food aggressive, and his former family followed the whip advice and over time the situation escalated to very dangerous porportions. For this horse we always made sure he had hay first. Then would have an ADULT, enter the stall calmly and talk patiently to him, we feed with little buckets rather than scoops, and would allow him to have a bite, ask him to back away, then dump in his tub. We reiterated ground work outside of the stall, reaffirming the backing. He has been with us a year, and now is an angel at feeding time.

We have a second horse, also previously food aggressive, was fed by the trap door system. Very very violent when he came in. For this one, we would throw an empty bucket at the wall, or at him. The theory is to be faster, since you can't be stronger. This horse still gets a little "amped", at dinner, but will allow the feeder his space now. We also found it to be key that he is in a corner stall, where he tub does not share a wall with another horse.

The third mare was a starvation case, and the food aggression manifested later. We still need to use firm words, but again we used the bucket system with her. She has been with us the shortest amount of time, and have actually found her more possessive of the water than the feed. We have also found that if you scrach under her mane while refilling the empty water buckets (after dumping them!), she stops the grabbiness.

I recommend a bucket that is rubber, maybe small tub, or a ball. Something that won't be dangerous if it is left in the stall. Manners are paramount, but you don't neccessarily want to be the aggressor in this situation. It's a manifestation of resource guarding.

Good luck, be patient.

[sisu27]

I can't think of many situations where punching a horse in the face is the best course of action. Life or death I guess, maybe?

I have a food aggressive thbd now and had a food aggressive Hackney/Welsh. The pony was a rigg and a bit of a handful. Sadly the BO's daughter punched him in the face for years and he only got worse. Funny, as a skinny little 80lb kid I managed him just fine, yet the punching beeatch had nothing but trouble with him. I was terrified of her but evenually got up the nerve to tell my mum and it was resolved. Took some time to un-do the angry ponies issues from getting punched. She used to make him wait until everyone else was fed and then punch him and hit him with a broom. When he was fed first he became far more polite. Anyways....firm, decisive yes but punching and screaming wouldn't be my first choice, I've never seen it work.

The thbd has taken a slap on the chest and some choice words. If you go at this horse with out and out agrression he will kill you. My trainer says he has a very strong sense of justice. He was also handled roughly by an asshat and has not forgotten. If you are firm but fair he is a pussy cat. He is better when fed before his neighbors. Some staff have some sort of weird issue with this for some reason. Like the horse will reason the situation out and "learn a lesson". Right. I prefer to set them up for success.

I like the flag idea. I don't get bent about pinning ears but take exception to actual aggression and personal space invasion. Flag seams like a good way to explain the boundaries without breaking trust.

Sucks having to deal with something like this when boarding doesn't it?

Good luck!

[goeslikestink]

Fellow COTH'ers I need your wisdom. I got a new horse 4 weeks ago. He was not fed properly where he lived before, and we have been working on packing the groceries in. Yesterday one of the girls who feeds told me my horse is changing. I am now hearing from a few of the people who feed, as well as BO that my boy is not so nice at feeding time. The girls say he pins his ears , arches his neck and sort of lunges at them. BO said he lunged at her arm the other day.
Is there anything that can be done to help this? BO says once it starts, it pretty much stays that way. He is fine in other ways. I can groom him in his stall with no issues, riding is fine..... It's just this one area. Any insight?

1st drop the grain and feed ab lib hay if the horse is underweight you need to get the gut moving then small meal little and often then worm the horse
2nd put a bar up nose hieght above his door - so he cant lunge and bite at people
also this creates an illusion the door is bigger than him
move all artiles like feed buckets water bucket and hay net to the front part of the stable


then when you enter the sstable taking out the wooden bar above will make a noise the horse thinks hes going to get hit on the head so automacally walks back away from the door

if he doesnt then get your mate the broom turn it upide door tap the floor when you open the door and say back the horse should mve back away from the door
if however he doesnt and still being a git - then out stretch your arm with said broom tap the floor and say back use your tone of voice dont give treats to a horse with a behaviour problem as it will only make that behaviour worse ten times over as you would be rewarding that bad behaviour and dont speak to a horse nampy pamby baby talk
talk to him as if you mean it - like you would another human they dont get baby talk
but they do get clear spoken words ------- like stand , behave , goood boy

use your tones of voice -- a dog poohed on the floor-- you would tell it off
but if the dog brought you slippers you would prase it
horses a re the same - prase to ahorse is a good pat and scratch they respect you moreso

this creates the illusion your bigger than the the horse
at no time have you hit the horse - all your doing is showing your alpha and alot bigger than him


by having the thing at the fron tof the stable means you cna access them when he backs away
by tapping the floor with the broom you can move the horse to back part of the stable and say wait or stand - again using your voice - asin deep and meaningful
cna change his feed bowl or water or haynet

the way to understand horses is to create an idea in his mind - that you are alpha
and under no certain terms will you put up with naughty nappy behavour

also look at what your feeding him---- now as i asked you to take away his grian
the reasons
1- is he doing enough work to warrnt the feed given
2- if hes under weight then you musnt give large quanity meals you will over facing him and could cause colic
3- do you or your barn owner etc understand feedstuffs - so many people give high energy feedstuffs and supplements without understanding or reading the back of the packet of either so you could be over laoding him with high energy feedstuffs or to much supplements

good quality hay has all the suuplements a horse needs -
4-- understand the size weight and type of horse you have as to the type of feed your giving - ie a sec a pony wouldnt neeed high energy feedstuffs they are native poines and cna live on air - as in hay alone and grass

5- to much lush grass to much feed and to little work a horse will be a naughty horse at feed times as it blowing his mind away and then it will become a problem into any triaing or ridden work

6- always introduce feed slowly small meals and small quanties if ahorse wasnt fed well before hand - and has a weight issue then his gut isnt going to be large either so its small and little and often

7- if the horse is ridden then cool mix low energy feedstuffs and slow releaseing feedstuffs-- so if the horse needs more energy you can increase the amount if to much energy then you decrease the amount until you have a happy medium you can work with

your problem is food related in what your giving him and what your doing as in handling him
so hes pushing the boundary

[Walela]

It would be nice to know how things are going with him now.

[murphyluv]

especially in a boarding situation, there should be no reason for anyone to have to go in the stall to feed this horse. Not sure how the OP's barn is set up, but if the workers can stay outside of the stall, and the horse can still see them with the food, the flag idea is a great way to get him to back up, when he's calm and focused on something other than the food, the reward is the food.
OP really has to go to the barn though to see what's going on. Unfortunately, consistency really is the key here, and for all we know one of the barn workers is allowing this to happen unknowingly-- and caused it.
I did self care at a barn with a friend and traded off feeding- I kept getting complaints that my horse was charging madly through the gate into the smaller paddock for feeding time and running her over. the horses were fed in the smaller area out of the buckets that we mixed the grain in. Since I had no such problem, I was really confused... until I asked her for a detailed account of what she does... she mixed up the grain, carried the buckets to the very gate the horses came in at, and then fed them. on my mornings to feed, I threw out the hay first, kept the grain in the feed room until the horses were in the paddock and eating hay. I had a much calmer reaction... Once we figured that out, and a little discipline to fix the problem, we both were consistant in how we fed and there were no more problems. Just an example how tiny details in feeding routine can really cause problems..

[poltroon]

It's counterintuitive, but I had very good results using clicker training to work with a food aggressive horse. She learned surprisingly quickly that standing quietly and turning her head away from me meant she'd get me to click and give her a treat.

[equineartworks]

situations like this usually turn into a "dump and run" and that only fuels the fire imho.

They act like an a$$ to me at feeding time they get a stern "Knock it off" or "get those ears up". Just above a growl...the minute they try something they get firm tap on the muzzle and I walk out with the bucket. I go back in about 5-10 minutes, sometimes less...no food is an eternity to them. It is almost always better. If it isn't? Out I go with the bucket. I've only had to repeat this at most 4 times. Most all of them get it within 2-3. They looked shocked when you walk away...all that aggression leaves their faces and they get that sad little "look at me! I am weak with hunger! The POOR little Horse!" To which they get a good "suck it up buttercup and stop acting like an a$$".

Horses know people bring their food. They also need to realize they are expected to behave to get it.

A funny though...do you know I could not do this with the new mini's? They were not aggressive, just stressed and scared and a bit stall protective. They are so SMALL!!! They are way dwon on the ground and that in your face thing just doesn't have the same effect when they are staring at your knees :lol: We did find a happy medium and they were good within 2 attempts but man...they are so little! lol! It's easier to be tough with a biggie. :lol:

[LauraKY]

If that does not send him to the back of the stall with big eyes, and a worried snort, I would purchase a kids plastic wiffle ball bat. Usually just the sight of one of those will earn the respect, but I am not opposed to using it if needed. They must respect a human - always! They don't crowd their herd leader at his hay pile. That feed bucket is MINE until I leave it alone for the underling to clean up my leavings.

You're kidding, right? Please, please tell me you were joking, exaggerating, etc.

[Fairview Horse Center]

You're kidding, right? Please, please tell me you were joking, exaggerating, etc.

Totally 100% serious. A plastic bat makes noise, and is MUCH kinder than a herd leader's kick if crowded.

[LauraKY]

Totally 100% serious. A plastic bat makes noise, and is MUCH kinder than a herd leader's kick if crowded.

And you board at your facility? Then you put comments like that on COTH? Sure wouldn't have my horse for a boarder! Yes, you have to demand respect, but it does not have to be violent! I'm sorry, a plastic bat has no use in horse training!

My horses (and dogs) are incredibly respectful. We retrain OTTB's. Some recently gelded. Not the most respectful when they first come in. If they misbehave, they work. When they behave, they rest. Make the right thing easy and the wrong thing hard (think that's a Clinton Anderson quote).

If they crowd me, rush me, bite at me, or are in anyway disrespectful, into the round pen they go. Sometimes takes once, sometimes 4 trips. Rush the gate? They will go through that gate a multiple of times until they listen to my instructions. Every interaction you have with a horse is a learning experience. Let's make it a good one!

[Fairview Horse Center]

And you board at your facility? Then you put comments like that on COTH? Sure wouldn't have my horse for a boarder! Yes, you have to demand respect, but it does not have to be violent!

Tell that to the herd leaders. Tell them to chase the pushy horse around the round pen, and not kick or bite them. I want to communicate, and discipline a horse using THEIR language & herd dynamics (dominant-passive), not predator/prey language - chasing them until they give up to be eaten (round pen).

Yes, I board, and the plastic Wiffle bat on my property was purchased BY one of my boarders. We show her horse the bat, and he doesn't crash the gate, jumping on top of some kid.

[LauraKY]

Ah, but the round pen uses THEIR language. They are told to move away, usually using body language, at the most a soft lead. They are never hit! Just encouraged to keep moving. Surely you've seen a horse "push" another away when the first one misbehaves which is one of the basic principles of natural horsemanship. It most definitely is NOT predator/prey.

Guess you're not a fan o f natural horsemanship (Monty Roberts, etc.)! Guess we will have to agree to disagree (vehemently).

[Fairview Horse Center]

Ah, but the round pen uses THEIR language. ... Guess you're not a fan o f natural horsemanship (Monty Roberts, etc.)! Guess we will have to agree to disagree (vehemently).

We will DEFINITELY have to agree to disagree. NOT a fan of predator-prey type of "natural horsemanship". I am a fan of REAL natural horsemanship like a herd leader uses to maintain the herd. They sometimes use a look, or a step as a reminder of who they are crowding, but they DO kick and bite.

[AengusOg]

The way I deal with this problem is to walk forward with the feed skip and put it down. Immediately the horse shows any sign of aggression, I leap toward it, raising my arms and looking as if I'm just about to eat it.

As the horse throws itself away from me, I watch it closely in case it tries again. If it does, I repeat the threat. If it doesn't, I become passive and allow it a chance to approach with a different attitude.

I very rarely have to repeat the exercise.

[grayarabs]

Am reading this after having read the article in Equus "Free Choice Grain"?
(also discussed this forum).
Having food available 24/7 makes so much sense. The article is a must read!

[Foxtrot's]

I've not read all the opinions. My cheeky yearling tries this sometimes. He is basically a good kid, never raised a leg at me or any of that stuff. Routine is this:

When he is fed, don't just leave the stall, or he thinks he has won by being fed and then chased you out of the stall. Stay around, talk to him, remove a manure pile, pet his forelock, etc. and then on your terms wander away.

When he goes into the stall at supper time, make sure there is some hay to take the edge off his appetite before the grain.

Make him back away from you as you approach - never take a backward step from him, or he thinks he pushed you, instead of you pushing him. I tap his chest with a short bat or now just wave my finger like a bossy schoolteacher. Whenever I enter the stall he has to back up, even when he is being let out of the stall, back first.

I have not had to rough him up, it is not my style.

Any possibiity he has tummy problems as that can cause grumpiness at meal times.
I must say I have wondered if it is behavioural or medical, and think it is more behavioural in his case, since he's otherwise such a good guy. Vet agrees.

[DressageFancy]

My strategy (at least it worked on my aggressive horse) feed plenty of hay FIRST. Give grain when his hunger is satisfied. This also helps to encourage a bolter to eat slower. I've also found that by feeding all the horses their hay first they keep their weight better and I actually feed less grain per horse.

[murphyluv]

My strategy (at least it worked on my aggressive horse) feed plenty of hay FIRST. Give grain when his hunger is satisfied. This also helps to encourage a bolter to eat slower. I've also found that by feeding all the horses their hay first they keep their weight better and I actually feed less grain per horse.

also prevents colic.