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lrkrame2
Aug. 19, 2009, 09:45 AM
Quick question:....

what is the tax write-off for donating a horse to CANTER??

FairWeather
Aug. 19, 2009, 09:48 AM
Depends on the horse. anything over 5K needs a written appraisal.

BeverlyAStrauss
Aug. 19, 2009, 10:54 AM
Fairweather is correct- you can claim any reasonable value up to $5K- over that you have to have a professional written appraisal and there are also now IRS forms you have to fill out-if you want the NFP to provide a letter certifying that the horse had that value over $5K. IF you want to claim greater than $5K and do not want to provide a written appraisal from a professional, a rescue can simply give you a letter stating you donated such and such a horse but the letter will not attest to any specific value- you can then put whatever on your return and justify it to the IRS if they call you on it. We had one horse that I know was valued at well over $250K, we provided the letter stating he was donated to MAHR but did not certify the value, and the owner claimed what he wanted in his return with the blessing and backup of his accountant, lawyer, and financial records.

lrkrame2
Aug. 19, 2009, 11:05 AM
Okay thanks!

One of the others at the barn acquired a horse and was using the "well if she doesn't work she goes" and the "Go" would be to Jaron- so I was using the "WAIT! you could get a tax write off! if you donate her to CANTER"...

I wanted to make sure I wasn't bluffing..

FairWeather
Aug. 19, 2009, 11:29 AM
If it's still actively racing and Michigan is taking horses, that is.

lrkrame2
Aug. 19, 2009, 11:33 AM
that or I put her on the waiting list and "store her" at Annikak ( cause she is the fab step mom)..

Laurierace
Aug. 19, 2009, 03:32 PM
We usually put them at the lowest claiming price they ever ran for assuming that was less than 5k or at $4900 if they never ran for less than 5k. Not worth getting an appraisal to go over the 5k mark in my opinion.

Cruise1
Aug. 19, 2009, 07:52 PM
We usually put them at the lowest claiming price they ever ran for assuming that was less than 5k or at $4900 if they never ran for less than 5k. Not worth getting an appraisal to go over the 5k mark in my opinion.

Great pictures of your horses and your family!

Laurierace
Aug. 19, 2009, 08:26 PM
Thanks!

Big Yellow Taxi
Aug. 26, 2009, 12:39 AM
We usually put them at the lowest claiming price they ever ran for assuming that was less than 5k or at $4900 if they never ran for less than 5k. Not worth getting an appraisal to go over the 5k mark in my opinion.

ummm arent you the same one who was asking me what tax dodge I was talking about on another thread?

Laurierace
Aug. 26, 2009, 08:57 AM
You call THAT a tax shelter? That explains everything. [edit]

Janet
Aug. 26, 2009, 09:45 AM
IRS form 8283

You can google it

f8283 is the form
i8283 is the instructions

Janet
Aug. 26, 2009, 09:58 AM
ummm arent you the same one who was asking me what tax dodge I was talking about on another thread?
How is taking a smaller deduction when you might be entitled to a larger one a "tax dodge"?

danceronice
Aug. 26, 2009, 11:54 AM
Methinks somebody is not as familiar with the IRS and income tax loopholes than s/he thinks they are...

Big Yellow Taxi
Aug. 26, 2009, 12:04 PM
This is from the CANTER website:

Can I have a tax write-off for fostering a CANTER horse?

Donation receipts are given for anybody who fosters a CANTER horse. Any tangible expense related to the care of said horse is typically tax deductible, however we encourage you to speak with a CPA regarding this manner.

YoTambien
Aug. 26, 2009, 12:56 PM
This is from the CANTER website:

Can I have a tax write-off for fostering a CANTER horse?

Donation receipts are given for anybody who fosters a CANTER horse. Any tangible expense related to the care of said horse is typically tax deductible, however we encourage you to speak with a CPA regarding this manner.

And you what? Even with the availability of a tax deduction, it is STILL darn hard to find reliable fosters that will absorb those costs. And really, what kind of "huge" tax deduction are we talking here? Tangible expenses (allocated costs for hay, grain, bedding) is not a huge amount for one horse. It is extremely rare to find a foster who will also pay for vet and farrier out of pocket. Those expenses typically get billed to the non-profit organization.

And it is rare, rare, rare to find someone who can afford to absorb thoses costs for more than one horse. Nope - not too many really rich folks looking to "shelter" their money in fostering a bunch of former racehorses.

I can see how the comment of reducing the number of racetracks may have caused your ire against CANTER. But the argument that CANTER represents a bunch of high living tax dodgers is about as realistic as the prospect of seeing racing once again at Hialeah.

And realistically, tracks get closed because they aren't making money, not because of the wishes of a few frustrated folks that work hard to find homes for the horses.

Big Yellow Taxi
Aug. 26, 2009, 01:07 PM
So horse adopters as a group are wealthier than average or less wealthy than average? I think I know the answer to that one.

Its still a tax dodge. You keep horses because you like horses. And you pay less tax than you would if you kept (say) antique coffee makers or exotic tricycles instead.

DLee
Aug. 26, 2009, 01:14 PM
So as far as that theory goes, I paint because I like to paint and I can write stuff off. Doesn't matter that I sell them. It's all about "dodging taxes", right? Speaking of painting, you're using a really broad brush, Big Yellow Taxi.

FairWeather
Aug. 26, 2009, 01:16 PM
Oooh, thats giving me a good laugh! Thanks!

We have exactly *one* horse in foster care. You found us out! DAMN! Now how are we going to shelter all those millions!?? Our ONE foster facility will get to write off (if she so chooses) the cost of bedding, grain and hay. Thats it. that's a whopping 100$ a month. That actually could be, like, 450$ on her tax returns! Oh, and the diamond shoes she bought for the horse, but she only gets to write those off if CANTER gets to keep them.

Still laughing! :lol:

More evidence that you are ignorant as to how things actually work, and don't actually want to know and are instead trying to rile folks up. :rolleyes:

If you have legitimate concerns, I'm ALWAYS happy to answer questions, open the books, show people around. We are as transparent as I know how to be, which is why your [personal] jabs aren't going to bother me.

Big Yellow Taxi
Aug. 26, 2009, 01:22 PM
http://www.canterusa.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=120&Itemid=130

All donations are fully tax deductible and every penny helps the horses.

You've got the taxman coming and going. Someone donates a horse, gets a writeoff, someone else ends up feeding it, gets a deduction, and someone else else donates to help you, also gets a deduction.

Plus I thought you were going to ignore me...

FairWeather
Aug. 26, 2009, 01:28 PM
I can't actually figure out what your beef is, which means you are just searching for one on the fly.
If you've got concerns, then feel free to email and or call me. You obviously know who I am, and have shown your brilliant use of web searching to ferret out that all-important tax information, *ha!*, so put your awesome skills better use and pick up the phone!

Or, maybe call and bitch to the IRS? Because it seems like everytime someone points out the fallacies in your logic, you jump to another issue.
Did the IRS not hug you enough as a baby? good lord, grow up.

Big Yellow Taxi
Aug. 26, 2009, 01:47 PM
Its not illegal. Its a tax dodge [edit]. Perfectly legal.

loshad
Aug. 26, 2009, 01:49 PM
CANTER is a charity, no? It took the time to go through the rather annoying 501c3 process, correct? Given that charities rely pretty heavily on donations, and that people prefer to give to organizations that allow them to get tax deductions, I fail to see where the problem lies. The tax deductions are an incentive for people to give. Period. The tax status requires reporting of income and expenditures as a way to keep the organization honest.

Further, I'd be willing to bet a considerable amount that FairWeather has probably contributed serious amounts of her own personal cash (along with blood, sweat, and tears) that she NEVER claimed anything for.

[edit]

How is CANTER any more of a "tax dodge" than any other charitible organization?

Big Yellow Taxi
Aug. 26, 2009, 01:53 PM
Thats my point. Its a charity. But the people working it are pursuing a hobby. I like old cars. Can I call my garage an old car rescue charity and write it off for tax purposes? nope. But if it was a barn full of horses I got for free its a different story.

loshad
Aug. 26, 2009, 02:00 PM
Oh noes, FairWeather has managed to do something to help those who can't help themselves but has violated the cardinal rule of charity to whit:

THOU SHALT NOT LIKE THE ENDEAVOR INTO WHICH YOU POUR YOUR FREE TIME AND DISPOSABLE INCOME FOR ABSOLUTELY ZERO REWARD.

That bitch!


Your metaphor is lame -- last I checked, old cars weren't in need of rescuing from slaughter.

Jeannette, formerly ponygyrl
Aug. 26, 2009, 02:01 PM
Maybe it's just my local public tv station subsidizing a local you's charity, but I could get a tax deduction for donating my old car to a legitimate non-profit. Not so much to a shade tree mechanic, but bless your heart for dreaming!

Barnfairy
Aug. 26, 2009, 02:01 PM
Cabbie's perception is seriously impaired.

Somebody needs to take the keys away.

Janet
Aug. 26, 2009, 02:05 PM
Thats my point. Its a charity. But the people working it are pursuing a hobby. I like old cars. Can I call my garage an old car rescue charity and write it off for tax purposes? nope. I know of at least one such. Not a "rescue" but 501c3.

Big Yellow Taxi
Aug. 26, 2009, 02:11 PM
Jasmine/Jeannette - thats different. The (not-charitable) cars are being used to raise money for the charitable cause. In theory they could raise money for CANTER or WGBH too. They couldnt write off the money they spent on a new garage or to buy a new axle for their Mustang.

Janet - I dont doubt that such a thing exists but there would need to be some greater historical significance than saving the old datsun from the junkyard.

Janet
Aug. 26, 2009, 02:13 PM
Janet - I dont doubt that such a thing exists but there would need to be some greater historical significance than saving the old datsun from the junkyard.
Yes, educating people about racing vintatge cars IIRC.

I know my father made a tax deductible donation to them. I just don't remember the name.

ETA that the definition of "museum" can be pretty broad, and they can be 501c3.

caffeinated
Aug. 26, 2009, 02:22 PM
Its a charity. But the people working it are pursuing a hobby.

Um. So?

How is it different from people who like cats volunteering in cat rescue? Or people who like kids volunteering for after school tutoring programs? Or people who like architecture volunteering or donating to restore a historic building?

And for the record, I pay all my taxes, same as everyone else. And because I'm a lazy person probably only half of what I invest into CANTER actually gets accounted for (in miles driven and items purchased for their care, or entry fees paid to get them in front of people to try and help place them, among other things) on my tax forms. I need to keep better track of that stuff, for real.

Big Yellow Taxi
Aug. 26, 2009, 02:24 PM
Oh I dont doubt that the wrinkly old guys in their race cars are working the system too. My original point was that CANTER does more for the volunteers than the horses, partly thru tax deductions and partly thru getting first crack at the best horses.

Dont tell me you're too young to remember that before CANTER figuring out a way to get first crack at the best horses coming off the track was a full time job for a lot of people.

Barnfairy
Aug. 26, 2009, 02:26 PM
My original point was that CANTER does more for the volunteers than the horses, partly thru tax deductions and partly thru getting first crack at the best horses.
You're just plain wrong.

And everybody knows it but you.

magnolia73
Aug. 26, 2009, 02:50 PM
Thats my point. Its a charity. But the people working it are pursuing a hobby. I like old cars. Can I call my garage an old car rescue charity and write it off for tax purposes? nope. But if it was a barn full of horses I got for free its a different story.

Yup- you sure could- call it a museum, open it to the public. You could probably take in donations to help you preserve more history.

I think it sucks that you would anonymously accuse someone who works very hard and helps a lot of horses and cleans up a lot of messes of doing it for the tax write off. And if tomorrow, Fairweather said, "Yeah, I just do it for the write off" I'd still respect because she has helped a lot of horses find really good homes.

ivy62
Aug. 26, 2009, 02:50 PM
I have not read every response but
BYT- What about the ASPCA? What makes them any different? the have tax deductions and donations and fosters...Should all rescues be called the ASPCA with different divisions. The other thing is have you EVER donated time, money or even gotten a horse from one of these rescues? I know my guy is happy living with me and god only knows that without these rescues where they would all end up....I wish I could do more!

Do you really like horses? What is your beef? I am not an upper class wealthy chick but a horse lover and owner who decided not to get a European import but get a good ole American bred horse!

caffeinated
Aug. 26, 2009, 03:00 PM
Oh I dont doubt that the wrinkly old guys in their race cars are working the system too. My original point was that CANTER does more for the volunteers than the horses, partly thru tax deductions and partly thru getting first crack at the best horses.


The tax deductions I do get are the same as I'd get for donating time, mileage and money to any other charitable organization. I'm not sure that counts as something nefarious or unfair or why you keep harping on that point.

As far as first cracks at horses - it's possible that volunteering means you see things before they get on the website. But really that's about it. I can't speak for everybody, but the horse I'd adopt if I could is one that's been available to the public for quite some time (old hind leg fracture. Recovered and just a joy to be around in every way *sigh*)

dilligaff2
Aug. 26, 2009, 03:11 PM
MUST.STOP.EYES.FROM.BLEEDING.

Seriously, you have your panties in a wad because someone donates -- NO fosters---NO likes--NO Donates .... ummm...errrrrr......SCOOPS UP ALL THE GOOD BROKEN HORSES before the meatman has a chance!!!!1!!!!!!

You want to buy a horse of the track and flip it???--go to the trainer listings. They are there by the hundreds. CANTER has even done you the hard work of getting them on a website for one stop shopping--no more schlepping around the backside looking for that perfect Sabeeeno filly.

If you are just moaning about the deductions--PM me. I'm in Canuckistan and can't use my receipts. I'll mail them to you.

Moderator 1
Aug. 26, 2009, 03:12 PM
We've removed some posts/comments and addressed the repeated drum beating by some individuals re: a personal dislike for the ability of people to deduct legitimate expenses related to charitable organizations.

If there are OTHER questions re: how CANTER handles its donations, per this thread's topic, feel free to address them.

Thanks,
Mod 1

Pixie Dust
Aug. 26, 2009, 03:14 PM
I've been caught. I now have 7 cats living in my house because I get first crack at fostering kitties as a volunteer. And the CANTER volunteers get to help in euthanizing horses, and all that other fun stuff. Wow caffeinated, how many horses do you have now? since you've been volunteering all these years? Dodging the IRS too with your gas milage.

Jleegriffith
Aug. 26, 2009, 03:25 PM
As sort of the lead volunteer of the Delaware Park effort I will tell you exactly how it works. We know how much money we have in the budget for the horses we already have. We can support X number of horses that have issues and need time off. We can support X number of horses that are sound and can be retrained for resale. So far if we have had the stall space available and we feel we can move the horse into a new home fairly quickly we will accept it as a donation.

Since the inception of the CANTER program at Del Park we took a 12 yr that was currently racing, one horse that had to be euthanized, one horse with minor soundness issues, another with a major soundness issues and we just accepted a really nice 3 yr that is sound and should be able to be rehomed very easily. Surely we wouldn't have chosen a 12yr, a horse with no future, two horses with issues and only one resellable horse if we were only picking the best.

Our volunteers are there every Saturday spending our weekend time not because we are looking for horses but because we are trying to help. I can not tell you the personal satisfacton I get from helping a trainer sell a horse. It is actually quite an incredible feeling. Do I get first pick if I chose to well sure I do because I am actually VOLUNTEERING my time and efforts on behalf of the organization and the trainers. I would probably guess that most of us volunteers are full with horses which is my case. I work with the CANTER horses and don't buy any horses for myself.

I would further add that I have personally emailed many people that I know are in the business of resale with the prospects I think would be good buys. I am trying to HELP the trainers and if it helps my friends why is that horrible? Trainers just want horses gone ASAP.

Furthermore, I list the horses myself and if you happen to look at the Del Park canter listings those listings go up on Saturday or Sunday at the latest. It is pretty darn fair for those who are looking. Hook up your trailer with cash in hand and the horse is yours.

Yes, I get tax write offs for the work I do but I am sure not getting rich. I retrain the CANTER horses that come to my farm because I love the job and I believe in giving back with my skill set that I have for working with ottb's. CANTER doesn't own it's own farm so the horses are boarded at my farm for a reasonable rate. Anybody who boards horses knows there is no profit there. I use all my own funds to show, campaign, advertise and whatever else I do with the CANTER Horses. It is a write off but that is the nature of volunteering for a 501c group.

I know in the time we have been working out of Delaware park we have helped get around 25 horses into new homes. That isn't a huge number but we have only had about 45 horses listed so when you see that it is a big figure.

The horses who get donated to our program are not always sound and for the most part we don't pick and choose between the best horses unless our funds dictate that we only take what we know we can rehome. I would just call that smart and accountable business practices.

I would encourage anybody who may be concerned about how we use our funding to contact Fairweather. I really don't know how Fairweather does what she does. It is an incredibly hard job and many times the frustrations can outweight the rewards.

I want those trainers to get a tax donation. If that is one more reason to make the want to donate a horse before they end up in a bad place then so be it!

Big Yellow Taxi
Aug. 26, 2009, 03:26 PM
You're just plain wrong.

And everybody knows it but you.


Me and all the people dumb enough to pay their taxes...

NMK
Aug. 26, 2009, 03:49 PM
Big Yellow Taxi.

Seems you're carting around a lot of baggage. Thank you for the opportunity to let our volunteers tell you how CANTER works. Heck, if you take a look through your foggy windshield you might just see how it can work for you too.

Nancy

YoTambien
Aug. 26, 2009, 03:53 PM
We've removed some posts/comments and addressed the repeated drum beating by some individuals re: a personal dislike for the ability of people to deduct legitimate expenses related to charitable organizations.

If there are OTHER questions re: how CANTER handles its donations, per this thread's topic, feel free to address them.

Thanks,
Mod 1

Thank you Mod 1!

kcmel
Aug. 26, 2009, 04:04 PM
My original point was that CANTER does more for the volunteers than the horses, partly thru tax deductions and partly thru getting first crack at the best horses.

So then where is MY stuff?? I want my stuff!

caffeinated
Aug. 26, 2009, 04:19 PM
So then where is MY stuff?? I want my stuff!

Meet me in the parking lot behind the pawn shop.

Trixie
Aug. 26, 2009, 04:38 PM
CANTER does wonderful work, which I've been fortunate to see over the years, and I'm happy to continue donating to them. I have absolutely no doubts from hearing their tales over the years that it's quite a labor of love.

And yes, most of them love the work that they do - but a great deal of it is not only hard work, but it's heartbreaking work too.

foundationmare
Aug. 26, 2009, 07:08 PM
....thank you Mod 1! I was going to ask for your intervention many posts ago.

mistyjewell
Aug. 26, 2009, 10:53 PM
Wow, I'm getting to this late, as I don't usually frequent the racing fourm, but noticed the title poppoing up, so investigated it.

I can't believe anyone would have an issue with CANTER. I've known people that have followed CANTER and volunteered for several years now, and now that they are DE park I hope to be able to help out myself. I've seen/heard first hand some of the gut wrenching stories about what they have gone through to try and save horses from slaughter and put their literal blood, sweat, and tears into trying to get horses safe, sound, and sane enough to compete with the increasingly soft market out there for TBs right now. It's not to make a profit, it's so they can save more horses and put them into good homes.

Do they get to ride and show some of these horses? Sure! But does that make up for the weeks or months trying to rehab a horse and give him his best shot, only to have to put him down because he has something you couldn't see? No. I can't count the number of gut wrenching stories I've heard about horses that could melt your heart, and be glad to know that the horses at least got to know what it was like to be a horse for it's last few days, and have someone actually love it and teach it to eat treats before it was their time to go. It KILLS these volunteers. You can't even begin to put a price on their time and emotional investment.

But the fact of the matter is their whole point is to rehome these horses. I would say most of them already have a horse, or several horses, and aren't looking to buy another, but are looking to get the horse trained to a point where it can be competitive in the market to be placed in a home. Again, they aren't making a profit on them, they are lucky to break even, which is why they need donations and tax write offs, so they can actually afford to find homes for these horses. Have you ever seen an OTTB when it's fresh off the track? Many people aren't willing to take a chance on them without them going to a BNT first. Like you said, many people made their money doing quick fixes and flipping OTTBs. But CANTER is trying to give as many out there a chance as they can, not just those special few that a BNT deams worthy, and makes it afforadble for others out there to find something with a history in training that can be discussed in debth with.

Oh, and did you know that very few actually get donated or taken in by CANTER? Look at the websites, it shows you which are trainer listings, and which are CANTER listings. There are hundreds compared to a few. But the volunteers still go out to the track EVERY saturday (at DE park) to take new listings and keep something tragic happening to these horses.

sorry... ending rant... but compared to some other very not reputable orginzations out there, CANTER really cares about finding the perfect home for its horses, and giving them the best quality of life that they can have, it's not some glorious thing for the volunteers to ride them and laugh to the bank with their tiny tax deductions.

danceronice
Aug. 27, 2009, 12:58 AM
First crack at the best horses? Really? I think we've found the source of Large Yellow Dingbat's undie-bundle.

Back when figuring out how to get first crack at the best horses was a full time job for people, the market was such that it was possible to make a living flipping TBs. Not so much anymore.

Ding ding ding! I think we have a winner! Bitchy Ex-Trainer, is that you in that taxi?

I have extensive experience in NFPs including graduate-level courses in management and accounting for not-for-profits. (Why? Because I have an MA in Museum Studies. Museums are by and large NFPs, donations to which are tax deductible and when it comes to art museums often worth VASTLY more than any OTTB could ever be if his name isn't Storm Cat.) Nothing CANTER does is illegal, immoral, or in any way unusual. Does it mean trainers and buyers have cut out the middlemen? Also not illegal or immoral.

Makes me wonder how much of a markup my ex-trainer put on my boy for putting six weeks of work and a rubber pelham on him.

Everythingbutwings
Aug. 27, 2009, 07:00 AM
As far as first cracks at horses - it's possible that volunteering means you see things before they get on the website. And as Pixie pointed out, some of those things they are so lucky to see and be involved with are the many poor horses taken by CANTER that can't be rehomed, the ones that are incurably damaged and are euthanized.

Wow, BYT (love the acronym, it's appropriate) those CANTER folks sure are fortunate, it's downright unfair.

When is the next CANTER auction? Since having to euthanize my own thoroughbred, I seem to have quite a bit of tack and blankets to donate.

magnolia73
Aug. 27, 2009, 07:35 AM
The riding and showing of CANTER horses does a lot for them. They are ambassadors and people see others enjoying success on an OTTB and start to consider buying one.

Fairweather and her merry band of trail friendly, XC jumping, dressaging TB's was no small factor in the decision to buy a TB vs a QH or warmblood. In fact, I was set against TB's until I went out on ride with her. Now I own a restarted OTTB who apparently came through CANTER Ohio and was restarted by the gal I bought her from.

colliemom
Aug. 27, 2009, 09:13 AM
I've seen/heard first hand some of the gut wrenching stories about what they have gone through to try and save horses from slaughter and put their literal blood, sweat, and tears into trying to get horses safe, sound, and sane enough to compete with the increasingly soft market out there for TBs right now. It's not to make a profit, it's so they can save more horses and put them into good homes.

Do they get to ride and show some of these horses? Sure! But does that make up for the weeks or months trying to rehab a horse and give him his best shot, only to have to put him down because he has something you couldn't see? No. I can't count the number of gut wrenching stories I've heard about horses that could melt your heart, and be glad to know that the horses at least got to know what it was like to be a horse for it's last few days, and have someone actually love it and teach it to eat treats before it was their time to go. It KILLS these volunteers. You can't even begin to put a price on their time and emotional investment.

Well said, mistyjewell.

I for one am grateful for all that fairweather and caffeinated and others do and have done, since it brought me my current project (5 year old OTTB that was donated to CANTER MidAtlantic) who is coming along really nicely. I also know how hard it was to hook up with them due to their full time jobs elsewhere, and their commitments to other parts of their lives. But they still figured out a way to spend their own spare time to help find this horse (and many others) a suitable home.

But even the tax write-offs and donations haven't been enough, since now CANTER MidAtlantic can't afford to take in any more horses (other than DelPark) because not enough people care, especially the people in the industry who make their livings on the backs of these horses.

So, BYT, you can rest easier now since there will be fewer opportunities for the volunteers to have so much great fun and save so much money.

Sheesh. :confused:

Calico
Aug. 27, 2009, 10:42 AM
I have been trying to sit in my hands but fingers are getting too itchy :)

Here is why Taxi is pissed off (to say the least! :lol: )

There are plenty of people who re-home racehorses who do not get any acknowledgement or benefits at all, not even tax deductions. I worked on the track and have personally re-trained and re-homed about 15 horses to date, and most trainers I know have re-homed many, many more - no tax benefits, no accolades, and with financial deficits. It happens all the time.

Then CANTER comes along and presents itself as a Rescue, as if any horse on the track is in danger of being thrown away. The “rescue” angle alienates trainers and other workers who are re-homing useful horses, usually via an established pipeline of hunter/jumper trainers. These horses do not need rescued. I understand that not every track and trainer and situation can be this accommodating, believe me I know, and that is where CANTER can be helpful. But it’s the horses that will never be useful again that need rescuing, be it in a big green pasture here on earth or in the sky – and, as far as I know, CANTER is not a Rescue.

CANTER is a good organization and I’m glad it exists. Their marketing reaches many people and surely has increased the number of horses finding a second career. But CANTER carries the shroud of a Rescue, and that’s not fair as it signals this is an “us vs. them” issue, and it’s not.

Wait, I just read the comment above that “CANTER MidAtlantic can't afford to take in any more horses (other than DelPark) because not enough people care, especially the people in the industry who make their livings on the backs of these horses.”

Wow. There are plenty of people who care, but blanket hostile attitudes like this sure aren’t going to help advance your cause, or CANTER’s, for that matter. This is exactly what I’m talking about – lose the attitude and you might find you have a lot more in common with track folk than you think.

caffeinated
Aug. 27, 2009, 10:57 AM
Then CANTER comes along and presents itself as a Rescue, as if any horse on the track is in danger of being thrown away.

I think we've been pretty careful NOT to do that. Other folks do it all the time, but we don't use that phrasing on our website or in press releases. And we try to make a point that we are here to help network horses, not to rescue them from the evilness of the racing industry. It's hard to control that sort of thing with the world being as big as it is, but I do try to educate people that horses at the track generally have it pretty good and that not every horse that raced was rescued from some dire situation. I'd say most of the horses on our site (either the trainer listings or adoption section) are there because someone cared about them, not the other way around.

There are, though, a few horses in the adoption program that I would consider "rescued" because of their circumstances. That said, I view it as a rehoming program, not a rescue, and try to present it that way even though a lot of people out there would say otherwise.

I would also say, to the person who said folks "don't care enough" and that's why funding is down, that I think it is far more a function of the economy than a lack of caring. Just about every nonprofit out there is feeling a similar pinch right now. It's not because people don't care, but because everybody's got to worry about their own when things get rocky (and the majority of donations have always been small individual ones, from exactly the people who right now probably are keeping the purse strings tight). It sucks, but the people who have supported programs like these for years certainly do care, quite a lot, even if they are not in a position to give right now for whatever reason.

dilligaff2
Aug. 27, 2009, 11:18 AM
Calico--

I'm sure someone could pass along the names of the 5 horses that Canter had to turn down yesterday.

Yes, you are correct. People lose money on horse deals all the time without tax benefits.

Were these deals an attempt to not make a profit? That is where the difference lies.

CANTER is a Not For Profit 501c3 registered organization. Any money made is funneled back into the organization for rehoming more horses.

I have never heard one word from CANTER about them being a rescue, only that they get horses needing a home to people looking. As for the 'Hostile' attitude, you couldn't be more wrong. Even when pressed by Congress during a recent hearing into the TB industry to talk about abuses, CANTER's representative instead stated publicly that there are MANY good trainers and owners out there that are looking out for best interest of their horses.

Everythingbutwings
Aug. 27, 2009, 11:24 AM
You're close, Jasmine
I'm betting it was something along the lines of a small group of people like you who were looking for ways to make donating horses, time, and cash more attractive to people.

Except that the small group of people who took their time and effort to do it weren't like Calico. They thought long and hard about what their individual efforts were accomplishing and how to do it better.

CANTER has never come across as a rescue to me. They are helping interested buyers find available horses and they aren't doing it for pay, they do it for the animals.

magnolia73
Aug. 27, 2009, 11:32 AM
Wow. There are plenty of people who care, but blanket hostile attitudes like this sure aren’t going to help advance your cause, or CANTER’s, for that matter. This is exactly what I’m talking about – lose the attitude and you might find you have a lot more in common with track folk than you think.

I think that they prattle along very happily with a good attitude, but the last 12 months have seen some bad, bad circumstances. They did not just open last week. Not every horse is in danger- I don't think they claim that. Of course there are homes for nice sound horses. The standard "OTTB" flipper knows what sells, goes in, buys it and goes along. I don't think they get inundated with requests to help crippled horses that need euthanasia.

I think something that is bothering Fairweather is that now the pool of undesirable horses has expanded from the permanantly lame to include sound, nice horses that are a hand or two shy of 16'2. Or a chestnut mare. Or have a rehabbable injury.

Are they rescuing at risk horses? In some cases, yes, and in some cases no. I've never gotten that CANTER is a rescue, though they are able to take on some at risk horses. They seem to more fill a role of listing agent/marketer. Fairweather knows a lot of people.... that's probably why a lot of her friends end up with CANTER horses.

To the people critical of the organization, what role do you want them to play? Do you want them to stop marketing the choicest horses? Do you want them to only list/take the worst off? What should Fairweather do when faced with a 16'2 bay TB that has been passed on due to a tendon strain that will be a great childrens hunter after 6 months of rest? Should she let them send him to the auction? Or should she take him for CANTER knowing she can rehome him easily? Should she call all her connections?

NMK
Aug. 27, 2009, 11:59 AM
Calico,

Take a good hard look at the posts. Not one says we are a rescue. Not one. We are a re-homing service to the horsemen currently training and owing horses looking for new careers (a free service to them) and we take in horses in need (many reasons) when funds exist. We are not a rescue, and do not claim to be a rescue. Do we take in horses that are at more risk than others? Absolutely. Some were never at risk at all.

And we are all volunteers---no salary for any of us. Any funds from re-homing go right back into the program to help more. CANTER is one organization that will take in horses at risk, possibly unsound, and not easily placeable in new homes. We don't pick the ones we "like" to come into the program.

If that was true we wouldn't have to discuss the second topic posted below about euthanasia.
Nancy

Trixie
Aug. 27, 2009, 12:04 PM
There are plenty of people who re-home racehorses who do not get any acknowledgement or benefits at all, not even tax deductions. I worked on the track and have personally re-trained and re-homed about 15 horses to date, and most trainers I know have re-homed many, many more - no tax benefits, no accolades, and with financial deficits. It happens all the time.

I’m sure if it happened frequently ENOUGH, there would be no need for an organization.

Further, if you are as methodical, I’m sure you could apply to the IRS for a 501(C)(3) status. It’s not CANTER’s fault if you chose not to do that.


Then CANTER comes along and presents itself as a Rescue, as if any horse on the track is in danger of being thrown away. The “rescue” angle alienates trainers and other workers who are re-homing useful horses, usually via an established pipeline of hunter/jumper trainers. These horses do not need rescued. I understand that not every track and trainer and situation can be this accommodating, believe me I know, and that is where CANTER can be helpful. But it’s the horses that will never be useful again that need rescuing, be it in a big green pasture here on earth or in the sky – and, as far as I know, CANTER is not a Rescue.


Again, I’m sure if there was no need for this organization, they wouldn’t be there, and they certainly wouldn’t be as busy as they are. CANTER touts itself as a networking organization – their mission statement is “The Communication Alliance to Network Thoroughbred Ex-Racehorses (CANTER) provides retiring thoroughbred racehorses with opportunities for new careers after the finish line.” It seems they have certainly “rescued” some horses, but for the most part, their job is to network to find them new careers, which is in support of their mission statement.

However, as you said – “not every trainer and situation can be this accommodating.” It’s undeniable that there are racehorses that wind up shipped to slaughter. That danger exists.



CANTER is a good organization and I’m glad it exists. Their marketing reaches many people and surely has increased the number of horses finding a second career. But CANTER carries the shroud of a Rescue, and that’s not fair as it signals this is an “us vs. them” issue, and it’s not.

So now what you’re saying is that in spite of the fact that CANTER does not market themselves as a rescue, other people believe that they are, and that’s not fair?

Brandy76
Aug. 27, 2009, 12:22 PM
I agree. CANTER has done nothing but help, and I have never heard them refer to themselves as a rescue, but a rehoming/placement network with the only goal of finding homes for horses. I have worked with a couple of other "placement" groups that were not so honest. CANTER, in my experience, is IRONCLAD.

and another thing. Canter actually takes the time to instruct those who have never interacted with track personnel how to do this, so as not to waste anyone's time, etc. In other words to ensure that it is a pleasant experience for the potential buyer, but also for the trainers.
CANTER reps do everything to promote a positive experience for all involved, to encourage more to participate!!

kcmel
Aug. 27, 2009, 01:31 PM
Then CANTER comes along and presents itself as a Rescue, as if any horse on the track is in danger of being thrown away. The “rescue” angle alienates trainers and other workers who are re-homing useful horses, usually via an established pipeline of hunter/jumper trainers. These horses do not need rescued.

I have never seen this attitude at all from the trainers at Delaware Park. The good ones that are active in rehoming their horses are very very grateful that we are there. We are all in it for the horses; no one cares who gets "credit".

Pixie Dust
Aug. 27, 2009, 01:37 PM
No need for me to repeat that CANTER has never been a rescue. But also, CANTER as an organization has always been very respectful towards the racing industry.

I'm surprised someone in the racing industry would complain about an organization trying to rehome horses by accusing them of being a rescue when it is apparent that many horses coming off the track do need to be rescued. That or euthanized.

Jleegriffith
Aug. 27, 2009, 03:26 PM
For me doing the track visits was a new experience. I grew up on the backside of Del Park my stepfather was leading trainer there for several years and racehorse were our life. There will always be trainers who don't want us there but I have been shocked at the number of trainers who are thrilled to see a group actively working on behalf of all the horses and not just the "sound horses." Let's face it those of us who do resale are only helping a portion because we don't want anything with vices, soundness issues, small, mares..blah blah. Those horses don't get moved and maybe they still move slower on our listings but we are giving trainers a chance to find that portion of the public who might overlook those things.

One thing that I try to stress to the volunteers that I organize is that we are a rehoming group and that we support racing. I am happy when people don't have horses to list because that means they are making a living and doing well. I would never pressure a trainer or make them feel like racing is bad and we are there to "save" horses. I know first hand these horses are well cared for during their racing careers in terms of good food, a nice stall that is bedded, vet services and generally good trainers and grooms. Yes, they aren't show horses but overall things could be much worse for a horse. It is the after they are done part that I am concerned with.

I am pretty strict with the image I want to project to the track and the trainers. I don't go in without asking, we don't touch the horses, we pay attention to where we are going and for the most part if they don't want to talk to us we don't bother them. In the time that we have started up the program (at del park) we went from nobody knowing us to now having people excited to see us. They tell us about horses who might be ready to get a new home and things they think we can do to help them. I appreciate the open dialog and encourage our volunteers to keep an open mind and listen to the trainers. I want them to know we are there to help. No cost, no agenda and open and honest. I don't give them false hope and many times I am giving my opinion about the best way to market a horse or how to move them the quickest. The free advertising moves a lot more horses that you can even imagine.

There will always be good and bad trainers just like there are good and bad show people. We service everyone the same. We get a lot of calls with people who need to move horses NOW. That is the most difficult part because there are sound horses that need homes that nobody wants because they are small, mares or whatever other reason.

colliemom
Aug. 27, 2009, 03:37 PM
She said NOT ENOUGH people care, not that no one cared. If enough people cared, there would not be such a need for an organization like CANTER.



Thank you. Yes, I said not ENOUGH people. I know there are a lot of people who care, and a lot of people who work behind the scenes, and for unknown and unrecognized and non not-for-profits, and all of that work is to be applauded. The point I was trying to make was that more people in the industry need to care (as is being discussed on the other thread.)

nycjumper
Aug. 27, 2009, 03:40 PM
I'm still trying to understand what BYT is complaining about
1) CANTER claims to be a rescue? No - as pointed out repeatedly, they are very clear that they are not.
1a) But even if they're not saying that, some people might think it? Well, unless CANTER has some majikal ;) powers I'm unaware of, I'm not sure how they are responsible for monitoring the assumptions of the general public except to clearly state what they are (See Point 1)

2) They get tax deductions? Um, yes - donations to 501c are tax deductible.
2a) They get tax deductions and I don't? Simple enough, go register yourself.

3) They get the best horses? Snork - that makes me giggle. And if you are interested, most of the horses on their website are listed for the trainer whom you/prospective buyer deals with. It's not like CANTER is stealing them away from you. Alternately, build a relationship with local trainers/contacts. I don't think CANTER has a non-compete clause preventing trainers from talking to someone.

4) Canter people like their job? Well, I don't have a defense for that one. You're right - I bet most CANTER volunteers enjoy horses and as a result of that commitment, they donate time, money and effort to helping them. I guess that is selfish ;)

NMK
Aug. 27, 2009, 04:54 PM
See, this is what I don't understand. CANTER can actually help people like cabbie and calico find horses on the backside. I would think it would be a lot easier to look at the horses available on line than going from barn to barn on a hit or miss hunt.

So I am really puzzled by the entire line of questioning. The horses I have that were once CANTER owned? One had not been adopted in months because his feet were so bad, his ankles big, he was 15.1 and unruly. The other was a 15.2 stallion with all the "goodies" that come with that package, which required $$$ due to his age. I paid $1000 for each of them--and I was the ED at the time. There were plenty of other trainer owned horses listed that were much nicer than those that ended up in my barn. But the other two needed someplace to go, so there you have it.

And as for write-offs, the IRS only recognizes statements/invoices for goods, and not for any time/labor. So fosters can only "write off" bedding, food and hay if they have receipts for all of these items. It's not a lucrative situation for most.

Do we like our non-paying jobs? It has its rewards, and it has its heartbreaks. One thing I do know for sure, those that are in this program are truly some of the most compassionate and altruistic people I've ever known. Somehow when you take the "profit" issue out of the equation, it brings out the best in people. Most times.

FairWeather
Aug. 27, 2009, 05:29 PM
I haven't finished reading, but thanks to all the folks saying nice things about CANTER. While we don't help these horses for kudos and clapping, it's nice to hear after a long day :)
That said, I'm not going to address BYT anymore, as they have now progressed to harassing CANTER volunteers off of Chronicle. It's a little bit freaky actually. :confused:

Calico, I appreciate your post, and most of this has been answered, but I want to answer myself.


I have been trying to sit in my hands but fingers are getting too itchy :)

Here is why Taxi is pissed off (to say the least! :lol: )


Pissed? Did they mention they were pissed? I didn't see that. I only saw stick-poking, name-calling and inappropriate comments.



There are plenty of people who re-home racehorses who do not get any acknowledgement or benefits at all, not even tax deductions. I worked on the track and have personally re-trained and re-homed about 15 horses to date, and most trainers I know have re-homed many, many more - no tax benefits, no accolades, and with financial deficits. It happens all the time.

Agreed. However, My group has helped over 3500, and we take far greater numbers of animals than private individuals, and on the whole, are present at racetracks and seeing more animals than private individuals. Weekly our volunteers are at 5 tracks (just for *our* chapter).
Do you rehome horses for accolades and tax benefits? Neither do I.




Then CANTER comes along and presents itself as a Rescue, as if any horse on the track is in danger of being thrown away.

You will not find the word "rescue" on our site in reference to our mission. We are not a rescue, have NEVER called ourselves a rescue, and in fact have made that point very clear over the years. We do not believe that the MAJORITY of horses leaving the track are in need of any type. They are cared for, paid for, fed, bathed, rubbed, loved. That is not rescue.




The “rescue” angle alienates trainers and other workers who are re-homing useful horses, usually via an established pipeline of hunter/jumper trainers. These horses do not need rescued. I understand that not every track and trainer and situation can be this accommodating, believe me I know, and that is where CANTER can be helpful.

Interesting that you make this point, yet don't know enough about CANTER to know that we've NEVER called ourselves a rescue, and in fact absolutely resist the word.
It's interesting, if all of these trainers had "established pipelines" of hunter/jumper trainers, why would CANTER have assisted in the transition of over 10,000 horses? That makes zero sense to me. If there was no need, because, you know, those trainers already had great outlets--CANTER would have died. I cannot wait for the day our services are no longer needed--that would mean they were being placed without us.
What I have learned is that people who made their livelihood flipping OTTB's for big money are annoyed at the prospect of having to compete with the general public for the "best horses". I got those sideways comments a lot 10 years ago, not so much anymore, or so I though.




But it’s the horses that will never be useful again that need rescuing, be it in a big green pasture here on earth or in the sky – and, as far as I know, CANTER is not a Rescue.
But you just called us a Rescue? Here, I'll requote for you--
"Then CANTER comes along and presents itself as a Rescue, as if any horse on the track is in danger of being thrown away. "



CANTER is a good organization and I’m glad it exists. Their marketing reaches many people and surely has increased the number of horses finding a second career. But CANTER carries the shroud of a Rescue, and that’s not fair as it signals this is an “us vs. them” issue, and it’s not.
There are a few trainers on here who have used CANTER's services. Maybe they can pipe in and find out just how much we come across as a "rescue"? You are awfully hung up on this issue--which leads me to believe you have zero experience with CANTER, and are just making assumptions.




Wait, I just read the comment above that “CANTER MidAtlantic can't afford to take in any more horses (other than DelPark) because not enough people care, especially the people in the industry who make their livings on the backs of these horses.”

Wow. There are plenty of people who care, but blanket hostile attitudes like this sure aren’t going to help advance your cause, or CANTER’s, for that matter. This is exactly what I’m talking about – lose the attitude and you might find you have a lot more in common with track folk than you think.mmm, you are paraphrasing. If you are going to attribute something to me, then quote the entire statement.
With all due respect, thats not hostile, that's reality. If you are uncomfortable with it, thats quite ok--it's your right to have that opinion.

Again, I am happy to answer absolutely any question ANYBODY has about our operations, philosophy, handling of funding, thoughts on the racing industry--all of it. But I'd prefer doing it out from under the guise of anonymity.

FairWeather
Aug. 27, 2009, 05:33 PM
Adding that I just spent the entire day shipping horses across four states, in my rig, on my dime, on my vacation time. I can guarantee you that my "Tax shelter" will not even cover a quarter the cost of the fuel.

On this trip I got giggling at my "top pick" of horses. I've gotten exactly *two* CANTER horses. One had severe DDSP, took two years to rehab atrocious feet before she could be ridden, and is among the most atrociously built animals I've ever had the pleasure of seeing. Her DDSP has gotten bad enough that she is no longer rideable and she will have surgery (that I get to pay for, and NOT write off of course) with the hopes that she can be a trail horse. If not, she'll be a pasture ornament for life.
The other was a true rescue--I paid 300$ for a horse heading to the auction and he's retired in a field after running over 100 times and winning a large chunk of money for 14 different owners. His job is to look adorable, cost me (NON TAX DEDUCTIBLE) money, and eat carrots.
Both of these horses have been with me for 6 and 7 years respectively.

Now, if all the CANTER volunteers have "first pick" of the "good horses", wouldn't it reason that I would have the nicest ones??? so funny, such flawed logic.

We sell the nice ones to pay for the broken ones. Truly nefarious, yes?

Now, where to put my piles of money ;)

beckster
Aug. 27, 2009, 08:26 PM
I am living in South East Florida. I have a place in Wellington to keep a horse and am looking for an OTTB that doesn't have the will to race or a slow goer but still sound. I would love to give a good horse a new vocation. Any suggestions on who to talk to?

ivy62
Aug. 27, 2009, 08:37 PM
You could contact Canter, of course, Rerun, TRF or any of the local rescues with a good reference. I love the rescue I got my horse from but it is a bit far from you...
Good luck

Pixie Dust
Aug. 27, 2009, 08:49 PM
FW, I think you have revealed the true beef these people have. It's that old "established pipeline" that has been compromised and now they're stomping their feet and crying no fair!

Sorry folks, CANTER is making it MORE fair.

colliemom
Aug. 27, 2009, 10:41 PM
FW, I think you have revealed the true beef these people have. It's that old "established pipeline" that has been compromised and now they're stomping their feet and crying no fair!

Sorry folks, CANTER is making it MORE fair.

But the falacy of that is ... the hunter people don't want thoroughbreds any more!? All they want is the fancy big round warmbloods. That pipeline has dried up long ago, and not because of organizations like CANTER. :confused:

YoTambien
Aug. 28, 2009, 02:34 AM
At one point in time, a number of folks involved in adoption organizations were thinking about launching a "Thoroughbred Marketing" project - an effort to showcase OTTB's being successful in new careers - butting a branding on it (logo, slogans, etc.) and so on.

The economic situation has put a crimp in those plans - but if there anyone out there who would like to give it a try, please contact Bev Straus at Mid-Atlantic Horse Rescue as I believe she was trying to organize an effort.

SEPowell
Aug. 28, 2009, 09:15 AM
Good grief, you have to have a pretty active imagination to criticize CANTER. I was shocked to see what this thread was all about. What trainer wouldn't welcome CANTER in his barn; no one has a larger viewing audience for people selling tbs than CANTER. What an incredible service!

And why dis Tb rescues? Those I know really do buy their horses in the parking lot at NH or at the sale just above slaughter price.

And all the people I know involved with ottbs have both track and rescue experience and love racing! Maybe you need both experiences to see the good in both.

Las Olas
Aug. 28, 2009, 09:32 AM
I am living in South East Florida. I have a place in Wellington to keep a horse and am looking for an OTTB that doesn't have the will to race or a slow goer but still sound. I would love to give a good horse a new vocation. Any suggestions on who to talk to?

Try this link. I've placed horses through this service before.

http://www.thehorse.com/Horses/Available.aspx?breed=thoroughbred

You can also try Adena Springs adoption program. I think it's still up and running.

http://www.adenaretirement.com/

MintHillFarm
Aug. 28, 2009, 09:59 AM
Quick question:....

what is the tax write-off for donating a horse to CANTER??


Money donated to CANTER is tax deductable, but donating a horse to them I am really unclear about. Is it possible?

By the way, Adena's site has lovely horses...

loshad
Aug. 28, 2009, 10:09 AM
But the falacy of that is ... the hunter people don't want thoroughbreds any more!? All they want is the fancy big round warmbloods. That pipeline has dried up long ago, and not because of organizations like CANTER. :confused:


There are some of us still out there, you just have to know where to look. ;)

Brandy76
Aug. 28, 2009, 11:00 AM
At one point in time, a number of folks involved in adoption organizations were thinking about launching a "Thoroughbred Marketing" project - an effort to showcase OTTB's being successful in new careers - butting a branding on it (logo, slogans, etc.) and so on.

The economic situation has put a crimp in those plans - but if there anyone out there who would like to give it a try, please contact Bev Straus at Mid-Atlantic Horse Rescue as I believe she was trying to organize an effort.

You have a pm

colliemom
Aug. 28, 2009, 03:37 PM
There are some of us still out there, you just have to know where to look. ;)

:D Good!!

I remember when there were special classes for "non-thoroughbred hunters". Now it's the other way around.

DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"
Aug. 31, 2009, 01:29 AM
Oh I dont doubt that the wrinkly old guys in their race cars are working the system too. My original point was that CANTER does more for the volunteers than the horses, partly thru tax deductions and partly thru getting first crack at the best horses.

Dont tell me you're too young to remember that before CANTER figuring out a way to get first crack at the best horses coming off the track was a full time job for a lot of people.

This made me laugh, really. Special Horses Inc is a baby compared to CANTER as we are relatively new. And my co-enabler, equineartworks and I, do all the fundraising and networking for free. I don't know how much time I spend with it, I do it as I can, because I feel it is important. eaw spends an enormous amount of time with the website and networking. For free. We also donate in our own fundraising campaigns. I would venture to say that most people are like us in that we don't always even claim the donations.

The people involved with rescue/rehoming horses with whom I have come into contact amaze me. They take so little for themselves, and give so much - because they really are all about the horses. And those are just the ones that went through all the paperwork to organize and become 501(c)3, like CANTER. There are also a number of incredible individuals who quietly go about their way helping horses - like Laurierace, who has helped several - to those who help, one horse at a time.

The best horses. You wouldn't have considered mine to be that - yet he is, to me. No one would have considered Dumplin - a 35+ year old mini - to be "one of the best horses." But he was, to equineartworks. It's a relative term.

And really, it's not all about the money, for so many of us. It really is all about the horses.

lrkrame2
Sep. 3, 2009, 09:30 AM
Wow guys...

I didn't think my question would spur all of this.. I had assumed this conversation was dead...


thanks for all the information as far as the CANTER stuff... I believe the mare is getting ready to run soon- so we shall see..

Ravencrest_Camp
Sep. 3, 2009, 12:16 PM
So back to the original question, do owners get a tax write off for donating a horse to CANTER.

Being from Canada, I do not know US tax laws, but I am puzzled about how an owner can get a tax receipt for giving a horse to CANTER.

When someone donates something like artwork to a charity they are given a tax write off for the fair market value of that artwork. This is because they have made a donation in kind. They have taken something with tangible value and given it to the charity. The charity then auctions of the donated item, hopefully getting more than market value for it, both sides win.

Now when someone donates a horse to an organization like CANTER, isn't it because the horse no longer has an market value? Doesn't the fact that the horse is donated to a re-homing organization mean no one will buy it? (ie the horse has no value?)

So how can someone get a tax receipt (or write off), if they have "donated" something of no value? Has the IRS no clued in? Or are the tax laws different in the US?

Laurierace
Sep. 3, 2009, 12:20 PM
No, they are donating something that has a value. May or may not be the value quote on the receipt but at the very least they are worth meat price, not that CANTER would let any of them go to slaughter. CANTER in turn hopefully adopts them out for a fee.
Its different for the trainer listings on CANTER though. Those are bought and sold just like any other sales transaction so there would be no charitable tax deductions with those sales.

Ali Comrade
Sep. 3, 2009, 11:36 PM
May or may not be the value quote on the receipt


ooops a daze - eeeee

That was the wrong thing to post here.

DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"
Sep. 4, 2009, 02:25 AM
ooops a daze - eeeee

That was the wrong thing to post here.

I'm not sure I understand your post - for donations in kind, the person donating the item states a value. If the IRS chooses to take issue with that, it is between the IRS and the donor. The recipient who issues the receipt just acknowledges that the donation was received.

This is standard. For example, I may have bought a pair of boots on superclearance for $50. I donate them to a rescue. Original price for the item, in season, may have been $150. Rescue sells them at a fundraiser for $70. I could still claim I made a donation in kind for $150. The rescue is not responsible for the value placed on the receipt.

Laurierace
Sep. 4, 2009, 08:11 AM
I don't care if they pick on me but making up total BS about one of the few organization actually trying to do something about the castaway mentality that is prevalent in horse racing isn't going to fly. If they truly believe that what CANTER does is detrimental to racing they could rally their hairy butts and join together to DO something about it. Create their own troll organization to rehome race horses in a humane manner. But no, its easier to get drunk and sit on their keyboards.

Laurierace
Sep. 4, 2009, 01:36 PM
Ok I have been thinking a lot about this troll thing and trying to figure out what could possibly be the motivation behind their nightly appearance as soon as the mods call it a day. I can't for the life of me figure it out so I am issuing a challenge. Post in your real names and educate us as to your side of the story. Do it during the light of day without name calling and diatribes. Its quite possible your information might sway some opinions your way. We'll never know if you keep taking the cowards way out. There are plenty of topics that people feel strongly about one way or the other that we are able to discuss without hiding. Come on out from under your bridge, its a beautiful day outside. You might see things differently yourself when viewing it in the daylight.