Ulcergard with Doxy?

[LuckOfTheIrish]

My mare was just diagnosed with Lyme disease, and I will be starting her on Doxy (50 tabs 2xday for at least 21 days) tomorrow. She is currently on a probiotic, but I was wondering if I should also start her on an ulcer preventative, as I have heard Doxy can cause ulcers?

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that she will eat the pills!

[Horsedoctor]

I haven't heard of any documented cases of ulcers caused by Doxycycline administration, but the horses do sometimes go off their feed during treatment and this might look like a potential sign of ulcers. It is great that you are already using a probiotic, that will help to hold off any GI upset (diarrhea most often). I wouldn't generally recommend using ulcer medications concurrently unless the horse had a previously diagnosed problem. As far as the eating of the pills, if yours eats them you will be among the lucky few as they are pretty bitter (you get the idea after grinding up hundreds of tablets over time and getting the dust in your face!). The best recommendation I would have is to grind them in a little electric coffee grinder (if you use a mortar and pestle you will be cursing it after a day or two), mix them with a little bit of water and molasses to mask the taste and make it sticky, and give the mixture via a 60 cc dose syringe. This usually works but don't try it right before you go to work as you may need a change of clothes the first few times!

[chism]

Or you can just buy the powder and forego the grinding altogether. ;)

I'm not sure about treating concurrently. I'm treating a horse with Gastrogard for ulcers now because of symptoms that came on after treatment with Doxycycline for Lyme. It can definitely be hard on their stomachs.

[fivehorses]

NO, do not grind them, give them to the horse whole.

I feel like queen of doxy here. I had 5 horses on doxy, and some horses were getting 93 tablets, twice a day. Yup, I'd sit down and put on a good tv show, and start counting!

Horses will eat the pills whole. Even my picky horse who does not eat powdered supps ate them.

I got tired of counting and Prescription specialities compounded the prescription and had it flavored for each horse's fav flavor.

I also made sure horses were eating hay for at least a half hour before they got their grain and doxy. Wanted something in their stomach. I also fed them probios in the middle of the day. I think someone on here said the doxy wreaked havoc on probios if given together.

I did have one horse who did develop ulcers...not totally certain it was from the doxy or change in herd. The senior gelding left and he had to take over that position or let a lower heirarchy horse step up. So, probably a stressful time for him.

I did put him on the gastrogard regime, and he is now on smartgut.

I don't think the gastrogard will hurt, except your pocketbook.

Good luck.

[chai]

I have been on Doxy for Lyme and I can attest to the fact that it can make you feel very sick to your stomach. I think you should check with your vet to make sure whatever you give your horse won't interfere with absorbtion of the Doxy while it soothes his tummy. Make sure you give the entire course because Lyme Disease can be very stubborn. It might also be worth considering doing a short course of IV Tetracycline on your horse.
I have been through this many times because we live in tickville, USA. I have seen better results if the horse is showing Lyme symptoms if the course of treatment is started with a few days of IV Tetracycline. I had one mare that came up sore behind. She probably had Lyme and we didn't know it, but when she showed other symptoms, we treated her with Doxycycline for 2 months. That was in the early 2000s when the course of Doxy wasn't so long. She was not right behind for two years. We did x rays, ultrasounds, nerve blocks...nothing. Then she had a case of Ehrlycchia, another tick borne disease, and we hit her hard with IV Tetracycline followed by Doxy for 3 months and now she looks great behind. I now think that we didn't get all of the Lyme that was in her system, and it caused stiffness and soreness behind that we had mistakenly attributed to age and general arthritis in a big mare.
Lyme is a weird disease. Best of luck with your horse's recovery.

[JSwan]

You can't give ulcer/stomach soothing products to the horse when you administer doxy.

Talk to your vet about your desire to prevent any problems and ask him/her how many hours you should wait before giving any OTC product.

Many of the products have calcium, magnesium or other substances in them that inhibit the absorption of doxy.



ETA - chai - funny you mentioned another tick borne disease. My dog was tested because the vet found an enlarged spleen. I'm in ticksville too - he came back positive for Lyme, Ehrlichia, and Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever. (just exposure)

[mroades]

interesting...as my vet sometimes puts horses ON doxy for chronic ulceration of the stomach. He gets very good results on horses that seem to rebound as soon as you take them off ulcer meds.

[Angela Freda]

interesting...as my vet sometimes puts horses ON doxy for chronic ulceration of the stomach. He gets very good results on horses that seem to rebound as soon as you take them off ulcer meds.
Is the difference a much lower dose though?

[LuckOfTheIrish]

Hi all - thanks so much for all your comments. Apparently, I am one of the lucky few, because (knock on wood) my mare is eating all of her pills if I just drop them in her grain. Whew! I have noticed her drinking a lot more water since she started the doxy, and her stools have been loose. But, I expected that. I do make sure that she has grass and/or hay for a little while before giving the doxy.

I did call the Probios people and asked them about administering the probiotic with doxy...they said it would be fine, no need to give it a few hours before. They said that the doxy would also kill the good bacteria from the probios (no matter when I fed it), but it should at least help a little. They also recommended that I give her a large scoop (she currently gets 2 small scoops) of the probios for 3-5 days after finishing the doxy. My vet didn't have any strong thoughts either way on when to give the probiotic (with her grain or a few hours before).

Keeping my fingers crossed that we don't get any ulcer issues from this...

[veebug22]

Weird, from what I've read and the vets/farriers that I've talked to, ulcers and stomach issues are very common on long-term antibiotics. Maybe not if you're just doing a month or so, but with my mare who was on doxy and tetracycline for the majority of 10 months, she definitely was starting to get ulcers near the end of her treatment (my gelding is very ulcer prone so I'm familiar with the symptoms). Her tummy improved as soon as she went off her last round of antibiotics and I put her on probiotics, Ugard, and added alfalfa pellets to her diet. I've been told that probiotics and ulcer meds fed simultaneously to doxy/tetracycline can reduce its effectiveness, and since the round in which I did probiotics and Ugard at the same time as feeding antibiotics was virtually ineffective on my horse, I do wonder what role that played (she was very resistant anyway, however). I wouldn't worry as much with Ulcergard or Gastrogard as a feed through, since I think it's generally the magnesium that can reduce the antibiotics effectiveness, and I think this is more of a factor in feed-through ulcer supps than Ulcergard/Gastrogard. So many people have been told by reputable sources that feeding them simultaneously reduces effectiveness that I wouldn't chance it; I would still feed the probiotics and ulcer supps a few hours after or before feeding the doxy (I think lunchtime is perfect).

[monstrpony]

I have one who is very suspicious of anything different in his feed, and he never noticed the Doxy. He was on 30 twice a day for a sinus infection, and gets fed relatively little feed. Ate the Doxy right up.

Noticed some loosening of his manure (a good thing, in his case; motivated me to cut back on his probiotics) at first. He also was a little colicy the first day, and then right after he went off the Doxy--just muscle twinges over his abdomen, and a little kicking at his belly. He's been fine since.