Question for Judges-Large under saddle classes!

[BREEDINGMANIAC]

I have a question for those who judge! Recently I watched a huge u/s class that had 39 horses. How in the 10-12 minutes of the class do you determine who the top 6 movers are? Does anyone make notes while judging o/f who the top movers are, then watch those 10 or so u/s? I was just curious, it seems like it would be such a difficult task. I watched carefully, and it was pinned very well. I would just think you might miss someone out of all those riders in one class. I was interested in knowing how one would go about judging a class so large! I was at pony finals and there were just so many nice movers, and some that were not as nice. I would be afraid of missing someone.

[MHM]

To some degree, it's the rider's reponsibilty to make sure the horse gets seen in a big under saddle class. It is a horse SHOW, after all, so you need to show off your good mover.

If you're on the best mover, but you never let the judge get a good look at it because you're always hidden behind other horses, you need to plan your passes a little better.

A judge will often remember a very good mover from the class over fences as soon as it picks up the canter, if not even sooner.

It's nice to have lots of good movers to choose from, rather than picking the best of the worst. :)

[GreystoneKC]

I have a question for those who judge! Recently I watched a huge u/s class that had 39 horses. How in the 10-12 minutes of the class do you determine who the top 6 movers are? Does anyone make notes while judging o/f who the top movers are, then watch those 10 or so u/s? I was just curious, it seems like it would be such a difficult task. I watched carefully, and it was pinned very well. I would just think you might miss someone out of all those riders in one class. I was interested in knowing how one would go about judging a class so large! I was at pony finals and there were just so many nice movers, and some that were not as nice. I would be afraid of missing someone.

How did you watch the 39 horses and determine that the judge "pinned the class well". Most likely in the same manner that the judge did. :) But in a big class like that it is the rider's job to show off the horse to the best of its abilities and to be sure to get seen. The judge can only call it as they see it. If they can't see you, they can't use you.

[BREEDINGMANIAC]

I agree, a good rider should show off the good mover, but lets say you have 20 bay horses in a big class, how in the world does the judge remember which one is the best mover, with all of those horses in the ring at the same time, and trying to look at the numbers on the backs of the riders...I would think it could be overwhelming!

[superpony123]

I think about this every time PF comes around! With that many ponies (and at least half of them are beautiful movers) how on earth can you pick? :D

[BREEDINGMANIAC]

I agree, I am just wondering if judges have a certain way of scoring them when they come in for the o/f phase and remembering the really good movers when it comes to the u/s phase, and looking for any mistakes u/s to determine the pinnings.

[MHM]

Each class is judged separately, so I might remember the good movers from the class over fences, but that has no bearing on the results of the flat class.

In any class, regardless of size, most judges will watch all the horses the first direction, sort out the best movers who are contenders for ribbons, then concentrate on that group in the second direction to decide on the exact order of finish.

The worst is when your top contenders mess up at the end of the second canter, and you have to scramble to come up with a new order. :lol:

[findeight]

I think about this every time PF comes around! With that many ponies (and at least half of them are beautiful movers) how on earth can you pick? :D

Because they SPLIT THEM into sections of about 10 each, like sec. A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H... I even saw a section M this year. They NEVER get in the ring in big groups at PF. Model is the same, about 10 at a time. Only the O/F goes as a whole because, of course, they go one at a time.

Going a bit against the grain here and saying, IMO, NO judge can look at 39 and make a decent decision. Some may do it anyway BUT a sift is in order where about 2/3 are excused after they W-T-C.

I have done USEF, Arab, QH, Paint and various regional and state level flat classes in both Western and Hunt Seat/English (and a few Saddle Seat) Anytime that ring is 2 or 3 deep going around? Which can vary depending on ring size..they will sift about 2/3 out and work off the others.

That's fair. If that did not happen in that class of 39? Judges choice and not against the rules...but I'd remember the name...unless that was a really, really big ring where you could go single file and the judge had binoculars.

[Wanderluster]

Pony finals judges have the toughest job in town, they must give a numerical score to all entries. :eek:

The rest generally work from an inverted triangle, the 4 or five at the top and a few below and a few on the bottom tier.

The horses that are really being considered for prizes weed themselves out fairly quickly and the rest are traffic. Sorry to ruin the illusion that every horse is being given the same consideration but it is virtually impossible in the time it takes to run an US class.

Once you have reversed the class the only job is to assign them an order, that is when you get what you paid for, the judge discriminating between the horses presented that day.

That is the name of the game, I try to scope out a very good moving horse to follow behind if I have what I believe is the hack winner It helps the judge notice my horses way of going and is an easy way to compare two animals. ;)

[findeight]

Pony finals judges have the toughest job in town, they must give a numerical score to all entries. :eek:

The horses that are really being considered for prizes weed themselves out fairly quickly and the rest are traffic.

Well, far as PF, they are not really "traffic" as they are not all in the ring at the same time. They are also rans.

Don Burt once told me that, like it or not, most judges make 2 lists of numbers when you WALK IN THE RING. You got a "A" list of 4 potential winners' numbers. You got a "B" list of 6 that you like but need to see more of and could work their way into the prizes with good trips . Then you have no list of those that do not impress at all as they walk in the gait-you will not use these because you already have the "A" list of 4 and the "B' list of 6 that will fill your eight ribbons and allow for a screw up and drop out of a couple.

In an H/J environment, that judge will have already seen them move and either have them in the A, B list and not take too many onto those based on hack only.

We keep hammering you never get a second chance to make a first impression, it's all in the details and presentation and you need to walk in that ring like a winner and start showing 30 feet OUTSIDE that in gate. Cliches. But oh so true.

Few listen. Better to blame politics, size, clothing label, color or breed...but that's another thread.

[BREEDINGMANIAC]

OK not Pony Finals.... Lets say a Green Working division, or Amateur adult- with 40 entries... how does the judge decide the top 6 movers, with such a BIG class and just 10- 12 minutes to decide? Does he already have his top 10 from the o/f class based on how the horse moves?

[findeight]

OK not Pony Finals.... Lets say a Green Working division, or Amateur adult- with 40 entries... how does the judge decide the top 6 movers, with such a BIG class and just 10- 12 minutes to decide? Does he already have his top 10 from the o/f class based on how the horse moves?


Well, in top USEF competition, not all will come back for the hack because they know they lack a bit in that arena and want to save the horse from miles going against those that are better movers. So you would not get 40 First Year Greens in a hack (heck, you won't get that over fences most places). You would really not get more then 20 AAs in a 40 horse division for the same reasons...but, if you did?

They they DO remember how the horse moved over fences and, remember, in USEF competitions it is all about movement and quality. They already saw that and that will influence how they pin the flat.

If they do not jump first under that particular judge? They are really going to watch that gate and first pass and get that list of 10 before you even reverse.

If you are in breed or local that's based on breed mostly mistake and out? You better be perfect 30 feet before you go in that gate and on that first pass-then it's yours to lose.

You walk in that ring looking down, scowling, wiggling an iron, looking back at trainer, asking Mom for a Coke? Well, you can always blame your horse's breed, size, color or your choice of color insted of admitting you did not ride to WIN. It's easier that way.

[Across Sicily]

Can only speak for breed shows here, but I have several friends who are judges and the way they work them is to pick out the top 10 and figure it out from there. In our breed, 99% of the time if the class is 22+ it will get split. Depends on the show of course. A class down at our national show comes to mind - 27 horses all gunning for it - 5 (FIVE! at the world championships!) got excused for squirrelly behavior. I was on board my wonderful, thoughtful mare who dealt with the coming down from the extended canter, time out, back to the canter, time out, back to the canter, nearly get head kicked off by nutty horse, time out etc etc incredibly well. Others were not so lucky. In the end they congratulated anyone who survived the class, excused the remaining horses and did a work off for the top 10 ;) Only way to do it sometimes.