Is 17.2 too big?

[subk]

I know better than to get less than 16 hands for a resale project, but is there an upper limit? I'm considering a lovely 3 year old that might be perfect, but is already pushing 17.1 and may finish as big as 17.3. Big, flashy guy, with a fabulous temperament. Thoughts?

[RAyers]

I know better than to get less than 16 hands for a resale project, but is there an upper limit? I'm considering a lovely 3 year old that might be perfect, but is already pushing 17.1 and may finish as big as 17.3. Big, flashy guy, with a fabulous temperament. Thoughts?

Does he come with an oxygen supply, ejection seat and parachute if you fall off?

[jpalisades]

RAyers, there goes my coffee:lol:

OP: as a resale prospect personally I think that is too big. As you are going to have to wait for that perfect buyer and go through a lot of tire kickers who just want to test ride a big horse to say 'I rode a 17.2(+) horse once'. As a personal horse, if hes got want you are looking for and you are comfortable with the size than go for it.

[Jleegriffith]

As a resale I would also think he is going to be to big. I like them to be about 17h max for resale but that is just personal reasoning unless you are marketing towards foxhunting when the men really do like the big horses.

[Regal Grace]

Don't know for sure maybe it depends on the horse but Missy Ransehousen's horse Critical Decision is 17.1 h and has competed at the last three Rolex Three Day events (withdrawn at the most recent due to an allergic reaction) and has had a good track record to date recently placing 6th in the Millbrook Advanced HT ***.

http://www.rk3de.org/riders_profile.php?rider_id=336

http://useventing.com/competitions.php?id=831&horse_id=12859

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.rk3de.org/images/bin/2410.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.rk3de.org/gallery.php%3Fid%3D4%26year%3D2009&usg=__QA1uotHzZmgvzBvwu8LHdRc8Z9U=&h=640&w=421&sz=211&hl=en&start=18&um=1&tbnid=pQSS71W1zHuvJM:&tbnh=137&tbnw=90&prev=/images%3Fq%3DMissy%2BRansehousen%26hl%3Den%26sa%3D N%26um%3D1

[DiablosHalo]

I've had trouble placing my 3.5yo ISH bc of his large size. He is almost 17h already and even though he is purpose bred and has the bloodlines, etc- some have passed before even coming to see him bc of his size. Others have kept interest, but want to wait to look at him until next year to see if he has another growth spurt. I've also had a few trainers say it's not a big deal to most people, but I've found that idea to be hard pressed so far! :)

[shawneeAcres]

I do a lot of sales, and rarely have I had someone say "too big". Now too small, that is a whole nuther story! Personally like to get things 16.2+ for resale projects.

[Flipper]

Well, McKinlaigh is pushing 17.2H, and he's been doing alright!
I think he's an exception to the rule, though I have seen some nice 17.2+H horses do well at the lower levels - less stress on the big bod. When Philip Dutton looked at one of my horses for a client, he said that he wouldn't want anything over 17H for an eventer.
Personally, when I was looking for a 17H+ lower level event horse to accomodate my long, tall body, they were few & far between. There's definately a bigger market for 16H - 17H horses, but with a 17.3H guy with an exceptionally good disposition, & excellent conformation to carry his big body & keep him sound AND the potential for jumping & going XC, well, how can you go wrong?
What is his breeding? Is he a warmblood type, TB?

[eponacowgirl]

I always think of the adult amateur when I'm buying a resale horse, as typically, they're the ones with the pocketbook to buy something I've already put some time into, as opposed someone like me who is going to buy something cheap to bring along myself. I've found most adult amateurs are fond of something that they feel comfortable pointing at a jump- which is where height will be a bonus- at that height, 3' looks like 2'6"!

The other thing I would consider is how easy the horse is to put together. If he's built long and will take someone with Legs of Steel to motivate it, I'd say no go. I know thats hard to tell with a three year old, but I'd say you'll be safer in the under 17 range!

[JER]

Reed forgets that, in order to fall off, you actually have to be able to get on the beast. The 'down' part is so much easier.

I'd be worried about this horse having to have too much time off to grow. If he's a resale project, you don't want him on your feed bill for too long.

17hh+ is too big for my taste. Not that tall/big horses can't be successful in eventing because there are a number of them out there but I do think you limit your potential buyers when the horse is 17.2hh vs 16.3hh.

However, if the horse has super balance, a good temperament and the price is right, he could be worth the risk -- but maybe you should think about making an eq horse out of him. There's a bit more money in that and flat-jumping behemoths sell for the eq.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

I know better than to get less than 16 hands for a resale project, but is there an upper limit? I'm considering a lovely 3 year old that might be perfect, but is already pushing 17.1 and may finish as big as 17.3. Big, flashy guy, with a fabulous temperament. Thoughts?


What is his breeding? My big guy was pushing 17 as a three year old (just sticked under)....at 5...he is pushing 17.1 and I think is about done. He is a TB/Dutch cross...sire was 16H and dam was 16.3. So not all of them sprout up a ton after 3. I've known others who have grown 2-3 inches.

That said...he is very leggy...and VERY light on his feet. All the folks with experience who have seen him don't think he is too big given how he moves and his balance. Missy's horse it the same way....yes he is tall...but a lot of it is leg and he is very light on his feet.

To give you an idea...my guy wears a 50" girth...same holes on the saddle as my 16.1 1/2 mostly TB mare (15/16ths) when she was fit for her CCI*.


So yes....I'd be concerned about the height...but not put off by it. Is he well put together, mostly leg...and a light soft mover.

Besides that though..consider this...it is a HELL of a lot of horse to ride. My guy is a good boy...but damn tough just because there is sooooo much of him and he has so much power (and he has an almost too soft mouth....if he was a tank..forget it).

And from experience....it is a damn long way down...especially when they propel you further up as you do your unintended dismount ;)

Follow you gut though...you are the one looking at the horse.

[yellowbritches]

I, personally, avoid great big horses. Yes, there are some that do well at the upper levels, but that's not really the question right now. The question is if a big guy is a good resale prospect. I would say nope. I always try and find something between 16h and 17h (or that will finish in that range). I'll give a little leeway for something that is fantastic but smaller (we've sold some tiny but very cool little horses). But I almost ALWAYS avoid big guys. Especially big guys that are still very much babies.

Of course, it doesn't help that I am very prejudice at both ends of the spectrum. I'm willing to take the risk on little horses for resale because some of my favorite horses that I've had in the past have been under 15.3. But I'm not willing to take the risk for resale on big horses because I've seen how hard they can be on their bodies and legs and just don't think it is worth the heartache. So, take my opinions with a grain of salt! :yes:

[GotSpots]

If he's light on his feet and easy on himself, the size doesn't bother me. Alternately, if he's got the brain/talent to be a potential resale as a man's horse (particularly if he'll hunt), than the size doesn't bother me. In general though, I look for horses in the 16.1-17hh for potential resale - the bigger horses tend to take longer to develop and often are hard on their bodies (there are ALWAYS exceptions to this - we have two in our barn who are 17.1 and are very catty and elegant). Just keep in mind that with a 3-4 year old at that size, he may be ready for alot less than a TB at the same age might be.

[ExJumper]

H/J people love 'em big. Plus we stay in rings and only fall onto groomed sand. And it's true -- a 3' fence looks pretty manageable on a 17hh+ beast.

I could see why eventers might not desire one so big, but if you trained it up with the intention of selling to the H/J market I really don't think you'd have a problem. If it's at all talented enough to do the 3'6", Big Eq horses are ENORMOUS.

I'd buy it!

[AnotherRound]

I don't think that's too big. Most people I know would buy him. Well trained, georgeous is well trained and georgeous. If you're buying anything over 16 hands any way, inches here and there don't matter.

Can you tell I am your client demographic?

Heh heh heh...

When I was 12 I had a 17h mare would easily trot a 4 foot course. I used to have to do that for my lesson. Man, she could get her hind end under her. Later took her next owner to qualifiying for the medal/mcclay. I ran into her owner, after me (SHE bought her when she was 14), just recently. We BOTH loved that tall mare, and she meant as much to her as to me in our lives; neither one of use can do with a less than 17 hand horse, now. When I met Sud's next owner, the other day, she was grooming a 17.2 hand warmblood.

It gets in your blood. Lots of us like em big.

[AKB]

For years, there was a teenager in our eventing association who rode an 18h Irish horse. They did really well through prelim. I think that he died in his late teens of colic. Big horses are harder to sell, but many of them are good eventers. Make sure your trailer is big enough for him. Many people with Irish draughts like Sundowners because of the extra space. Make sure your stall is big enough for him. A 10x10 isn't adequate for a big horse.

[Jazzy Lady]

The reason why little people buy big horses is so the fences look much smaller. Doesn't do a whole lot when you're coursewalking... but it helps when you're actually approaching them! lol.

I guess 17h+ can boarder on overly large, but it really depends on the animal.

[yellowbritches]

When I was 12 I had a 17h mare would easily trot a 4 foot course.
My 16h horse can do this. Heck, the two 15.2h horses I rode in the past (that I would gallop down to anything on) could do that. The 17.2h monster we have in the barn now I highly doubt could do this. Jumping 4 ft from a trot isn't about how big they are, but how athletic. ;)

To me, the inches DO matter. However, I do agree with GS, a big, quiet horse that looks great and is easy to ride can be very marketable! Either to a gentleman (though, both our "gentleman's hunters" that were big ended up with teenage girls!!!!) or to ammie ladies who feel a little safer/fences look smaller on a big horse.

[eventingrocks97]

I had a gelding that I purchased as a yearling and he was already 16.1. He matured to 17.3(thankfully he was narrow). I competed him sucessfully through preliminary, however due to his size he was extremely hard to keep sound. When a horse is that big all the normal soundness issues that event horses face become an ever bigger problem. When I was trying to sell him I had a couple of buyers back out due to his soundness issue(he was only 7). Therefore, my advice is avoid the 17.2 hh horse as a resale project or as a competition horse for that matter.

[subk]

Thanks guys! I know some big horses make it to the top levels, but with a resale project I'm much more concerned that he would appeal to a more average rider! "Lower level with potential to go Prelim" is closer to what I'm thinking. So, yes on temperament, yes on conformation, yes on over-all visual appeal (he's gray)--but super-sized. Haven't seen him in person so I don't know about "light on his feet" which I agree is important.

His breeding is full TB. He is still owned by his breeder who I also purchased my current young thing from. She breeds TB for sport then "culls" one every so often to race. This guy was sent to Bowie and raced once, but doesn't seem interested in the game. He's never had any soundness issues and like everything she breeds has a wonderful brain. She is particularly trying to produce horses with the right attitude for an amateur ride so that good brain isn't a fluke!

Most interestingly his dam is a full sibling to my guy's sire, so extra doses of those French jumping Dollar line horses, and then he has His Majesty up close as a grand sire. I am quite smitten with the one I have and mostly I'm debating whether or not to hold out for my boy's full brother!

[bornfreenowexpensive]

Thanks guys! I know some big horses make it to the top levels, but with a resale project I'm much more concerned that he would appeal to a more average rider! "Lower level with potential to go Prelim" is closer to what I'm thinking. So, yes on temperament, yes on conformation, yes on over-all visual appeal (he's gray)--but super-sized. Haven't seen him in person so I don't know about "light on his feet" which I agree is important.

His breeding is full TB. He is still owned by his breeder who I also purchased my current young thing from. She breeds TB for sport then "culls" one every so often to race. This guy was sent to Bowie and raced once, but doesn't seem interested in the game. He's never had any soundness issues and like everything she breeds has a wonderful brain. She is particularly trying to produce horses with the right attitude for an amateur ride so that good brain isn't a fluke!

Most interestingly his dam is a full sibling to my guy's sire, so extra doses of those French jumping Dollar line horses, and then he has His Majesty up close as a grand sire. I am quite smitten with the one I have and mostly I'm debating whether or not to hold out for my boy's full brother!


I think for the re-sale market that you are talking about...you will be fine if he stays under 17.3. I think a little too big is STILL easier to resale than too small or a mare (and I like mares and have owned smaller horses).

Although this is a tough tough market right now....I had almost TOO many choices when shopping. But hopefully with some time it will turn around. While I think there will be a market for him as an eventer.....with the size, you will also have a market in the other worlds. The biggest thing will be his brain more than his size (and assuming he has the rest of the package!).

[Equibrit]

Depends if he's a clutz or a ballerina !

[Robby Johnson]

Buy him and sell him to me for $1.

[SBClancy]

I currently own a 17 RIDSH gelding. He's an easy keeper, hardy, agile, light in the hands. He does require time to get into shape but once there he's easy to keep in shape. The down size for me in a horse that big is keeping him together and balanced for dressage. I have a very hard time with that. I'm only 5'5" with short fat legs and so it's difficult for me to keep him together but I do the best I can because we are very compatible in everything else.

One of my biggest pet peeves is to see these big horses with tiny little people on their backs and then they put all these contraptions on them and get them stronger bits just so they can control them. If you need to put to much bit in their mouth because a rider can't control such a big horse then they shouldn't be riding such a big horse. I ride my gelding in a french link snaffle for all things and add a running martingale for jumping and have no problems.

He is currently for sale and I have had people come to look at him and not get on him because of his size. I appreciate the fact that they know what they want but on the other hand some people won't get on him because they feel it's a waste of their time because he's big so he must not be able to jump really well or have really nice flat work, which he does have both. So they missed out on a very talented horse because of their prejudice towards larger horses.

[jumpingmaya]

Buy him and sell him to me for $1.

OR
Don't buy him........ and give me his info =-)
Sounds like something I would look at and be interested in....
but then again i'm a show jumper :D

[Camstock]

Because I am tall, I really only seriously look at horses that are 16h2" or better as a general rule, and I don't have a top limit. Over time people have come to know that if they want a tall eventer or foxhunter I might have one or know of one. Its been handy to me to sort of be forced to specialize.

Meanwhile, another way to look at it is that you only need one appropriate match in a buyer. You aren't selling to EVERYONE. You are creating the perfect horse for someONE. This isn't like marketing a mass produced car where you need a thousand buyers to make that model profitable. Pick a horse you like, develop it right, and somebody will show up.

[enjoytheride]

I would steer away from a horse that big because I would be worried about soundness issues related to size, paying for an oversized stall, and an oversized trailer. Plus I'm an adult ammy and a smaller horse is easier to manage.

[Mudroom]

Buy him and sell him to me for $1.

no way Robby - I will give you $10, once he is "made"

- Mudroom (6'4") and 17.2 Stoney Brook

[tx3dayeventer]

no way Robby - I will give you $10, once he is "made"

- Mudroom (6'4") and 17.2 Stoney Brook

Holly was 17.2H, a ballerina, and did Advanced. I will give you $20 and take him "unmade". I'd give more but I would rather have a mare :D

[IrishWillow]

I know better than to get less than 16 hands for a resale project, but is there an upper limit? I'm considering a lovely 3 year old that might be perfect, but is already pushing 17.1 and may finish as big as 17.3. Big, flashy guy, with a fabulous temperament. Thoughts?

Yeah... I find that most of my buyers go for the 16h-16.3h size. 17.2-3 would be very intimidating for a lot of them.

[2horseowner]

As the owner of a 17.3 wbx, I have never regretted buying large. My other one is also big-17hh. As big as he is, he is very sensitive undersaddle. I have to ride him pretty much like a mare. Never once has he tried any thing dirty w/ me. I keep him comfortable w/ injections because I want this horse to last me for a while. He was a little stiff in in his hock/stifle area, so I had those injected. He is a dream ride. I finally feel that I can go preliminary w/ him because of the trust factor. I am 5'9", so I do feel better on big rides. If you like this horse, go for it.

[sch1star]

All those under 16hh wonderfully talented projects you pass up - please send em on to me! I love the little catty ones! :winkgrin:

[WW_Queen]

Don't know if your guy is too big....but mine is. :)

He's exactly "in the middle" of clunky + catty (he's generally clunky, but has a few "holy sh*t he saved my a$$!" over fences), almost 17.3hh, pure TB w/ French TB bloodlines. Physically he's built beautifully, but has been off (more or less, no jumping) for 2 years with NQR (bad shoeing job = bad angles = SI issues + saddle fit problems + mild changes in the hocks).

My guy is lovely, brains and beauty, but in a perfect world he would be a $200k hunter packing around AA's on a 3' course. :) He's (overall) too quiet, friendly and pretty to be an eventer. :lol:

That being said, I'm riding a 15.2ish TB mare that is full of crap but might be a good eventer. go figure. ;)

[specialK]

never mind the fact that big horses make the JUMPS look small!!!!!...I like that big horses make my BUTT look small LOL!who are you guys kidding.?.the jumps, I don't think so!!! I certainly don't think the horse is to big for a resale. I recently sold a 17'1, 3 yo draft cross, in part because of his size. My daughter 5'5 and 125 lbs events her 17.3hh CCI* and he rocks...I know the former owner had some trouble selling him and he is a LOT of horse...it took a little more time to learn to ride him, he's harder to collect and stadium courses often leave him less time to think but he is well worth every minute ever invested in him. All horses have areas to further develop. He is a wonderful horse and I would clone him if I could. I guess its a good thing there are differing thoughts on this. If we all wanted the same partner, be that equine or human, there would be lots of dissapointed people in the world. No doubt the right buyer would come along and if its a nice horse (quiet enough for an ammy) it will sell....if you don't decide you want to keep him(:
Believe ti or not our horse looks small in the trailer next to our trainer/coaches 18'3 draft cross who is now 5 and STILL growing....events novice ..almost always in the top 3 after dressage, bold XC (ditches, weldon walls, trakahners(sp?), banks) stadium is not an issue either. Huge stride and probably could have no problem making prelim time..
I say go for it..you won't be sorry...

[cssutton]

I am in need.

If you don't take him, I would like to look at him.

CSSJR

Protect your privacy. Replace Google with IXQUICK at www.ixquick.com.


If we do not wish to lose our freedom, we must learn to tolerate our
neighbor's right to freedom even though he might express that freedom
in a manner we consider to be eccentric.

[EiRide]

I agree with those who feel that the 16 hand range is most popular (try selling middle 14.3 to 15.2 hands--that's a pretty interesting market; 15.3 seems to sell a little better, esp. in hunters).

That said, those who really want or need a big horse for reasons of preference or leg and torso fit are probably ready to write a check when they find a good one. Smaller market, but like selling a horse property, the people that want it REALLY want it.

I generally buy horses in the 15 hand range because they can often be had much cheaper than similar quality horses in the 16 and 17 hand range and I don't need a lot of size. This is especially true when I find them in a hunter barn. :-)

[asterix]

Count me as another member of the "I can't help it, I love the big ones" clique.

As a resale, yes, you will have a smaller target market, but we are like drug addicts, very easy to convince when you have what we want :D.

I bought a 17.3h ID x "by accident" (fell madly in love, trust me, had no choice. horse of a lifetime). Bought a bigger trailer, bigger blankets, bigger tack, bell boots ("XL" is a complete joke for most brands), bigger everything.

Could not keep him sound -- long story, impossible to know really how much of that was his size. He had plenty of bone for his size and had been successfully eventing and foxhunting etc.... but over time I am sure his size would have given us issues. Lost him to a pasture accident.

Went shopping, tried, really tried, to find a smaller horse. 17.2 was the best I could do. I adore this horse and he is a lovely amateur eventer. Absolutely sound for years -- did his suspensories last year at 13 and is back to full steam now.

Went shopping. Did not bother with trying anything under 16.3. Already own supersize everything. Know what I like. Bought a little horse, 16.3 and still growing. Think he topped out at 17. Almost feels too small for me.

Just make absolutely sure (I know you will!) that he has impeccable ground manners.

But yes, we crazy amateurs who love the big guys are out there, and we will be total suckers for a well mannered, talented, gorgeous big horse. ;)

[Gideon]

I also love the big horses, I'm 5'9" tall and need a big horse.
My one horse is 17.2 hands and it took a while to get use to his height and massive body weight.
A big plus is, he has a long, flowing, steady stride and does well in the hunters.:D

[gjump]

LOVE THEM BIG!!!!!!!!

Proud owner of: (in order of height)

16.3h - Argentine TB
17.1h - Holsteiner/Dutch Mare
17.3h - Holsteiner Mare
18.2 - Holsteiner Gelding

The two mares can easily jump 6' w/ gp potential. Both have jumped around n/t level with scope for more....

GO GET HIM!!!

Ps... all go in a snaffle.

[classen_eventer]

Size doesn't matter in eventing - look at Charisma and Biko: there are too many to quote on both sides of the size range. What matters is heart and jump and movement and, if you are really lucky, they have it all and stay sound. Or, if you are just learning, you get a horse with the sense to take care of you. In the resale world, however, if it is under 16 hands, it is often "too small" despite the fact that Charisma won two golds and could walk under the stick at 16 hands and Mark Todd is tall. If it is 17 hands or above, it is often "too big" despite the fact that Karen O'Connor's Biko was 17.3 and Karen is no 6 footer. If you do resale though, you had best face the fact that it may go permanently lame the day after you buy it so I would go with the adage I always remember from reading Jim Wofford's excellent book years ago and buy something that I am happy to see hanging its head over my stall door every morning. Good luck!!
"A"
www.witsendeventing.com

[JWB]

How much are you hoping to resell for? Foxhounters would LOVE that size and a lot of eventers wouldn't turn up their noses....

That said, if you want to make money, show him in the H/Js. They LOVE the big guys. Heck, there's more money in the H/Js than there ever will be in eventing anyhow. Sad but true. If I'm getting a resale project, I'm marketing where the $$ is.

[JER]

There's nothing inherently wrong with a big horse. Heck, I own a 17.2hh TB -- and my kind of horse is an under-16hh mare.

However, the OP was talking about resale. IME, the ideal resale project should be something straight down the middle. And if it's not The Type Everyone Wants, it really should be the type you want -- because you very well might get stuck with it.

You will have an easier time selling a horse that doesn't come with caveats like 'he doesn't ride like he's 17.2hh' or 'he's 17.2hh but a light 17.2hh' or the old stalwart line 'she's not marish at all!'.

If you find yourself saying any of those things, you haven't got the ideal resale project. :D


(That said, my 17.2hh requires no special equipment. He takes a 5" bit, an 80" blanket, fits in a normal trailer. He was bred to race, out of a 15.2hh stallion and average-sized mare.)

[flypony74]

A lot of 17hh+ horses are very successful, so that wouldn't worry me. But, having a horse outside of the "average" box may limit your market. He does sound lovely, though!

[Badger]

There is a dedicated market that loves to find the big guys and will definitely be seeking a horse like this out. He won't be for everyone, but there is definitely a market for a horse like this. I would not shy away from him as a resale prospect.

[Ajierene]

At his size, I would be very careful about conformation and may even want X-Rays to make sure there are no problems that may surface in a year or two.

While there are dedicated tall horse buyers, they are not as plentiful as people looking for horses in the 16HH to 17HH range. This means you should plan on holding onto him longer than other resale horses. This also means there is more chance for injury/soundness issues the longer you have him, whether that be from size or a pasture accident that can happen to any horse.

The tall thoroughbreds that I have known have all had conformation issues and soundness issues and have basically been pasture ornaments by their teens (around 14).