Rider Reps?

[horsecents]

When you're at a USEA Recognized Horse Trials, we're talking lower levels here, and have concerns regarding course design, fences, etc. would you feel comfortable approaching the TD and/or President of the Ground Jury or would you like to talk to a Rider Rep (experienced horseperson) and have them address these issues to the officials. Or would you prefer to just deal with these concerns for better or worse?

[retreadeventer]

That's a really good question - and I really wonder if I had a concern, if I would approach a rider rep. I think I would go to the organizer first, or the TD - to find out if what I was concerned about could be covered under the rules, just to be sure I was on proper legal footing.
But honestly, at the lower levels, (and this is because I do live in an area where there are lots of events, and always another Novice or Training coming up on the calendar) I think if I were super concerned about something I would simply vote with my feet, or perhaps do dressage and/or stadium and withdraw, rather than make a stink and cost valuable brownie points.
You do not want an organizer to hold out your entry at arm's length and go "PEEEUUUUhhh, not her AGAIN!!!"
I think it would depend upon the subject matter and whether it was just fair or unfair to ME, and whether or not it was a fairness question that involved everyone else in the division or event. And if it were an important event, that was a qualifying event or something and there were no more chances for the rider or horse, then that also would change things - if it were a critical event, I would definitely have to think more about using ALL available resources to get the point across, including the rider reps.
Circumstances would make a difference as to how much political capitol I would be willing to spend to get my point across. Knowing that most of the time a competitor will lose the argument. (Sorry - just never seen too many win!) :0)
Thanks for the thought provoking question!

[nadasy]

Honestly, the TD and the GJ are there for a reason, and any reasonable question should be answered if you have legitimate concerns. You need to pick an appropriate time to ask the question- like not in the midst of x-c or when they are trying to inspect the course. Maybe see if there are some others who have the same concern?

By and large, with few exceptions, TD's are very approachable and understand, as part of their job, that better to answer the question before a problem. At least that's what I have found.

This is with the understanding that you ask a sensible question without being overly dramatic about it. :lol:

[Thames Pirate]

It depends. If something looks ridiculously unsafe I'd go to a rider rep. If I just had a question about how something could be ridden I'd go straight to the TD/PGJ. For fuzzy things (I didn't like the look of something, but it's probably fine type stuff) I'd listen to barn buzz/talk to fellow competitors. If there's a pattern of concern, particularly among competitors with coaches present, I'd go to the rider rep. I've never actually had anything where I had to go to the rider rep, but I did have a situation where I had a question for the TD. As it turned out, the people talking to him while I was waiting my turn had the EXACT same question, so I didn't have to ask. I would have, though. The TD was Roger Haller, and we'd had a casual conversation early that morning (I was about the only one around that early). He was very friendly, helpful, and approachable. Kudos to RH (and the countless other officials and organizers who make events possible and pleasant).

[Auburn]

Last year, I was at an event where I had a question about a jump on the BN course. I asked for a rider rep. I was told that the rider rep was not available and to go to the TD. I expressed my concerns to the TD, which were dismissed by " The rule concerning the way that jump should be built for BN is obsolete. There is nothing wrong with the way that it is built". I had my Rules For Eventing book with me, defining how that particular jump was to be built, so was very disappointed by the attitude of the TD. :confused:

For this reason, I will not go directly to a TD again. The TD made me feel like a lowly BN smurf. In the future, I would rather the rider rep, if they can be located, express any safety concerns.

[horsecents]

As an experienced competitor and understanding the politics involved (former Area Chair) I know what I would do in situations and feel comfortable talking with the TD and PSJ. I really miss the printed rulebook. :D

It's great to read how others would handle a situation, I'm also thinking about what would riders new to the sport, especially those without coaches, feel comfortable doing?

It's a shame more event evaluations aren't filled out. CONSTRUCTIVE critisms are always helpful, you only have to take it under advisement :D.

[CookiePony]

With the demise of the printed rulebook, I wonder how feasible it would be to have a copy of the rulebook available to competitors at each event. It could be attached by a chain to the secretary's booth so it wouldn't grow legs.

As with all people you meet in life, some officials are not terribly nice, but most I have dealt with are helpful and care a lot about the fairness of the competition. I feel comfortable approaching them and wouldn't necessarily prefer a rider rep.

[SevenDogs]

I would have no trouble approaching any official: TD, PGJ, Organizer, or Rider Rep at any show. I would do so respectfully and in a positive manner, but would not hesitate to bring any concerns I had to light.

If I happened to know the Rider Rep (or know of them) and I wanted more of an opinion (as in "this fence looks a little __________. What do you think"), then I would probably approach the Rider Rep.

If there were truly a clear cut problem (i.e. a huge hole on the landing side of a fence), I would bring it to the TD's attention or, if appropriate, the course preparers if they were still working.

If it is a technical issue (i.e. Fence exceed max height for level), I would likely bring it to the attention of the TD.

Most officials I have met are very knowledgeable and want what's best for the competitor. That being said, they can also be inundated with complaints, unreasonable competitors, parents, and coaches, and other unpleasantries, so I always keep that in mind and make sure that I approach respectfully.

[GotSpots]

If a TD tells you that s/he is not going to follow a printed rule, you need to take that to the ground jury. Document time, rule, and what was said. If you still don't get satisfaction, please contact USEF licensed officials. I know how hard folks (cough-Malcolm-cough) work to keep the rulebook up to date. If you are faced with an official who is choosing to bypass it, than the officiating bodies need to know so they can take appropriate action.

I promise, they won't think you're "just a BN smurf".

As for rider reps, I like having them, but think they need to be better selected to be someone who is (a) on grounds all day, and (b) not riding 6 horses. Philip's obviously a super rider rep, but he's hard to find if he's on a horse. Picking someone who only has one or two horses but who has experience, and particularly telling them ahead of time that they will be the rider rep so they can prepare to be there much of the day is really helpful in planning and organizing.

[SevenDogs]

Just curious. Who picks the Rider Reps?

Malcolm's the best! :yes:

[Thames Pirate]

Good point about rider reps being tough to find. It's not uncommon to have a rider rep with several horses competing. That rider rep also has courses to walk, needs to eat, and often has students to coach, owners to impress, dogs to walk, or what have you. It can also be intimidating for some smurfs to approach Mr. BNT, particularly when he is tacking up FamousHorse for dressage, to ask a question about a BN jump he has probably not seen.

[Auburn]

I would have been more comfortable discussing the issue with the Rider Rep, even if he/she was a BNT. If he would not have taken up my concerns, then I probably would have taken their advise. Before last year's Safety Summit, I did not even know that there were Rider Reps. Several BNT's spoke out about how dismissive some of the TD's were to their concerns, too.

Since I had never protested the way that a fence was made before, I just figured that speaking with the Rider Rep first was the best route to go. I carry a copy of the old rule book in my tack trunk. I keep track of the changes, but still use it as a reference.

[Show Secy]

EV119 states the responsibility of the event as regards rider representatives. The USEA provides a list to organizers of eligible riders from which to choose for the upper level events which require rider reps. There are 80 names on the 2009 list.
The letter also says "If the riders listed are not at your competition, the High Performance Discipline Committee has approved the following: Hold a mandatory meeting of the intermediate, advanced, or three-day competitors. Have them elect their own competitor representatives. The Technical Delegate should be at this meeting to explain the rule prior to the election."
Our events also appoint rider representatives even if we are not offering the upper levels at each event. We try to use folks from this list, and if we cannot, we contact experienced riders who are entered to see if they would be interested. Since this is an extra voluntary responsibility, we try to name riders who are already entered in the levels they will mediate, or have students riding, so there are not extra course walks involved. We also ask if they can walk the courses earlier than others, so any suggestions can be accommodated by our overworked course-building crews.
It is not always possible for each rider to find those reps at your convenience, but you can always ask at the show office and we will find them for you. Timing is everything. Check their ride times, stall assignments, etc, and you will have better luck. Please remember than even some legitimate suggestions for improvement cannot be implemented if you wait until midday Saturday to bring them up. We may be able to take your suggestions at the next event!

[NMK]

I was a rider rep at a Training 3 Day. There were quite a few riders feeling a bit intimidated that they might be asking a "stupid" question. We all know how busy a TD can be during events. I took every rider question and told them I would have an answer at x hour, then met with the TD and reported back to the riders as a group. Therefore all questions were anonymous and no rider felt singed out.

I strongly feel we need this at all levels these days. Riders have questions, parents/partners have questions, and the rule books aren't in everyone's truck all the time. Additionally, if there was some sort of schedule, it would be easier on the rider rep and TD. This schedule could be posted in the program and at the secretary's stand upon arrival.

That said, if I had a concern that was a safety issue of some immediacy, I would go to the TD pronto. I think it's important to have both avenues open. Unfortunately I don't see a rider rep at all levels at all events these days.

And then, if concerns are not met, vote with your boots and withdraw. In that case, be sure the TD or organizers/secretary know why.

And lastly, fill out the USEF and USEA event evaluation forms.

Nancy

[scubed]

At many events, even lower level ones, the organizers and the TD make an effort to speak to the rider rep and ask if there are any concerns. I personally know a lot of the officials (since now I am one - of the smurfy 'r' variety ;)) and have never had a problem approaching them, and if I feel my concerns are dismissed, have filled out evaluations stating exactly what happened. I don't think any of the organizers in our area are like, "oh yuck, her again" when I ask a question.

[SevenDogs]

You can still order a printed rule book for a small fee.