Hunter Breeding Gurus - critique and advice please!

[twoposies]

I'm thinking about entering my '08 colt in a hunter breeding class as a resume building endeavor, but I have never done one or seen one.

I'm posting some photos below. Could you all tell me if he looks like hunter breeding class material? A few things about him, which I would imagine may impact judging but don't know so advice is appreciated.
First: He's somewhere b/t 14.2 and 15h, I need to measure, I think about 14.3. Body wise he feels smaller than my now two year old was at his age, so I don't know if he IS small for his age and if that matters in a breeding class?
Second: He got an infection in his coffin bone when he was just over 4 months, had surgery to remove part of the bone, coming out they laid him down with his tail stuck under him(he was still drugged and out cold). I am SURE his tail was damaged/broken b/c within a week or two it looked like his tail had been chopped, essentially stopped, or slowed dramatically in growth rate and feeling it now, the bone feels about the size of a foal tail and is very weak to limp. Point of the story is he essentially has a foal tail, how will that impact him?
Third he's uncut so when I try and get him to stick his nose down and out he almost always drops, does that matter?

Finally having never seen or been to one does anybody have any tips, or general advice on turnout, faux paus, things to know/do/be aware of?

Thanks!
http://s1011.photobucket.com/albums/af234/twoposies/?albumview=slideshow

[tuckawayfarm]

I'm not sure what you mean by "resume builder". Is he for sale and you want to do something to increase his value? If that's the case, I would use the money to have him gelded. There is a much bigger market for geldings than uncut colts.

If you just want to give him some show experience, why not? I don't think his size is going to hurt as much as if his surgery compromised his movement. His conformation doesn't scream "hunter" to me, but it's always good to expose youngsters to as much as possible.

I'm sure a stallion owner could help you deal with the dropping issue, but personally, I would cut him.

He looks very sweet. Good luck with him :)

[showponies]

A lot more weight...I have used calf manna pellets, rice bran ( not at the same time, I like the high fat rice bran better as it doesn't have as much protine) Free choice grass hay and a complete grain and vitamins,,,,I am not a hundred % sure here, but I think you could use a fake tail. Not that the tail is a big thing, but it is the whole picture....AS for the color comment in you photos, next year starting in the spring keep him in during the day and out at night..Plus a vitiamin that is high in minreals...He should be braided( mane and tail) As for you, khaki pants, nice shirt with a blazer..Hair up or a hat....That part is simple.....Good Luck, have fun with your baby!!!!

[LovesHorses]

I agree with the above posters.

I would go to a show and watch. No better way to learn what they do and do not want to see. Showponies is right about more feed as ribby is frowned upon. Hence why some people call it the "lead and feed". Make sure your braids are done by a professional.

I would cut him. I am wierd though and don't think many horses should be stallions unless they are the best of the best.

I get good fake tails for my ponies from Beval. They have a pony length/thickness that works on a yearling horse. Or get one from a braider. Make sure the color matches. You don't really need one as a shorter tail is expected at that age.

[amylmac]

Be sure you show him in a bridle,braided mane and tail. Take a look at some websites , try Hoofprint Images and view events, July 5, Hunter Breeding Futrity. You can look at the photos of the yearling classes and compare them to yours. Also how the horses and handlers are turned out. What part of the country are you located? Good luck.

[Ladybug Hill]

He needs tons more weight (more than is really healthy IMO).

If he is already dropping you may run into more problems than you expect out at a show. You should probably have him cut.

Blemishes will hurt his chances of doing well.

[VirginiaBred]

Definitely geld him. I would not worry at all about the tail, he's still a baby.

No showing until he gains 200 lbs.

[JB]

2 *hundred* more pounds on this baby? Since he can't weigh more than 800lb currently (not even likely that much) that's at least 1/4 of his current weight you want him to gain?

Will HB classes EVER start letting horses be a healthy weight?

[trafalgar]

he certainly needs to be heavier but really a young guy like him should not be too fat for his health however these silly shows standards....

[avadog]

2 *hundred* more pounds on this baby? Since he can't weigh more than 800lb currently (not even likely that much) that's at least 1/4 of his current weight you want him to gain?

Will HB classes EVER start letting horses be a healthy weight?

But that's just it, this baby doesn't look like he's a healthy weight. He's very skinny. I think he needs to gain a ton of weight. I agree with everyone else get him cut if possible but put on some weight first. Is he being wormed every month? Good luck with your baby, the show will be a great experience for him.

[AnotherRound]

I'm no expert, but as a general horseperson to me he looks wormy and thin. His belly looks distended...

[twoposies]

Feedback is much appreciated:) I knew they liked horses in the breeding classes plump, I didn't realize they wanted them so fat. I think it's enough for me to pass on, I'd rather have a healthy one than a fat one:)

Gelding wasn't an option last fall so it's part of the plan for this fall. He's a sweetheart and far and away the best behaved and mellow of my guys so temperament hasn't been quite such a driving factor. I'm also not a fan of gelding during the heat of the summer and flies unless it is positively necessary.

The photos were taken not too long after he had a stint on antibiotics, at which point he did look wormy, small, and did have a distended belly. He's not too much fatter now, I think you can see ribs when he walks, but that's the way I like them. Growing children don't have excess fat, well outside of this country anyway;) and I don't think growing horses should either. And vet was just out and thought everybody looked great so not worried about the weight. Oh and I do powerpack everybody in the spring and the babies are on roatational dewormer monthly till about a year. I did have a wormy one a few years back, completely different look.

Again thanks for the feedback, I think we'll continue hanging out at the local shows to get exposure:)

[Vitriolic]

Feedback is much appreciated:) I knew they liked horses in the breeding classes plump, I didn't realize they wanted them so fat. I think it's enough for me to pass on, I'd rather have a healthy one than a fat one:)


Good for you. Imposing fat, mature hunter standards on a yearling is not good. I get beserk when I take a youngster to a show and some idiot starts telling me how to feed it! :)

[showjumpers66]

They can look good without being too fat. Jet, the yearling we are showing in hunter breeding, has no belly and ribs are easily visable, yet he has good flesh on his hip and neck. Here is a photo - http://www.silvercreeksporthorses.com/images/JetIHFYearling.jpg . He has a short baby tail, too! :) Just reaches his hocks.

[Samotis]

I don't think that its all about being fat in the hunter breeding. They need to have some muscle tone as well. That being said, there are plenty out there that are extremly obese.

As for the tail, if it is extremly short, I think it does take away from the whole picture of the horse.

Here is my yearling. He had colic surgery in Feb. and still has a tad of a weird belly, but he is in good condition for a HB show.

And I am quite proud of his tail. I have spent a long time on that tail to keep it long and thick!:winkgrin:

He is flirting with the girls in this picture.

[grayfox]

They can look good without being too fat. Jet, the yearling we are showing in hunter breeding, has no belly and ribs are easily visable, yet he has good flesh on his hip and neck. Here is a photo - http://www.silvercreeksporthorses.com/images/JetIHFYearling.jpg . He has a short baby tail, too! :) Just reaches his hocks.


Exactly. That is a healthy looking baby. Very pretty Showjumper. I think what people are saying is not that the baby has to be fat just that he need more weight and muscle. Showjumper had a great example of what to aim for.

[JB]

Good for you. Imposing fat, mature hunter standards on a yearling is not good. I get beserk when I take a youngster to a show and some idiot starts telling me how to feed it! :)
Agree, and I'd STILL like to see it change where even the adults have to be so fat to be considered worthy :no: Some of them, even at the high levels, positively jiggle :(

They can look good without being too fat. Jet, the yearling we are showing in hunter breeding, has no belly and ribs are easily visable, yet he has good flesh on his hip and neck. Here is a photo - http://www.silvercreeksporthorses.com/images/JetIHFYearling.jpg . He has a short baby tail, too! :) Just reaches his hocks.
Nice! I LOVE that I can see a hint of ribs! That's just a healthy, healthy looking foal :D

[ASBJumper]

That is lovely, healthy baby, sj66! Good for you for not "fattening" him up! :D

The pro handler that showed my boy as a foal last year told me that my boy is too skinny and his coat looks awful.. he wouldn't show him for me this year.. *sigh* So I had to do it... well, I still think he looks pretty darn nice, and I refuse to feed him any more than what he's getting (6 lbs of KER PhaseII/AllPhase and corn oil + 24/7 hay). I look at those uber-fat 2 and 3 yr olds and I shudder.. :no:
He didn't do too shabby, either - two 2nds and Reserve Junior Champion! :)
http://www.jeancaskeyphoto.com/gallery/8996419_XcLMA#598197131_FsfaX

He goes to his next show on the 22nd - hopefully we'll do as well or better! :winkgrin:

[JB]

ASBJumper, shame on you for taking that butt-ugly thing into the ring, and how dare you take 2nds with him!:lol::lol:

Was "your" handler there? I sure hope so :winkgrin:

[sblake]

Samotis is that your Roc baby? He's really nice! Sorry to hear he had to have colic surgery though.

[showponies]

I think there is a happy medium, I like keeping my yearling( all growing ones) with 75 to 100 extra for when they hit that groth spert...And at that rate it is hard to keep them coverd. Here is a picture of a welsh X TB yearling colt( yes he will still stay a colt until we see what he grows into) http://www.snowmountainfarm.com/snowmtdreamscometrue.htm He eats me out of house and home, and I would still like to see a few more pounds on him.....

[Vitriolic]

They can look good without being too fat. Jet, the yearling we are showing in hunter breeding, has no belly and ribs are easily visable, yet he has good flesh on his hip and neck. Here is a photo - http://www.silvercreeksporthorses.com/images/JetIHFYearling.jpg . He has a short baby tail, too! :) Just reaches his hocks.

He is lovely. I have had people complain about a horse in this condition because you can see his ribs. Also when they see a racefit horse, they think it needs rescuing because you can see three or four ribs. I guess they don't see the fitness, muscle, dapples and glow of health...

I saw a thread on another board about someone who took an obese horse in a dressage test. They were quite offended about the criticism.

[JB]

Vitriolic, the issue really is that people have lost sight of what "healthy" looks like.

I'm sure there are some long-time horsemen who started in on this 80 years ago who see an average horse these days and see him for what he is - soft, out of shape, and overweight.

Just because something is commonly seen does not make it right.

[Rival]

This is going to sound harsh but I would not show the op's horse. He is in poor condition due to nutritional imbalance IMO. I would give him a good deworming and invest in a better quality hay to get rid of that ribby, but with big bloated gut look. I would honestly leave his career until he is under saddle as he doesn't strike me as the sort to be competitve in halter. He is a yearling however and with growth comes change. Maybe re evaluate him next year.