Mare - No Papers - Options/Thoughts

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I am looking at a mare that has a wonderful show record (has done 3'6" and 4" hunters with success) to use as a possible broodmare. Problem is - she has no papers - would you stay away from this mare because of registration issues or is it possible to breed quality foals without her having papers?

I hate to see a quality mare become useless because of a lack of registration but not sure what to do? I do not yet own the mare, I am trying to decide whether or not to take this on?

Any thoughts would be appreciated!

[r3dd0g]

There would be no problem presenting a mare like this to BWP. If accepted she would go into the Aux. book, but she would receive a passport and her foals could be registered. The only real restriction would be she couldn't produce a stallion candidate.

[password]

I would look at her quality first, and papers second. Sounds like she has the quality and that's hard to find. If you are fortunate enough know her pedigree so you can pick the appropriate matches, it sounds like you found a wonderful mare!

[ex-racer owner]

Do you know the breeding at least? If so, you could probably submit hair for DNA testing to prove lineage. My friend's 2 yo filly went to the RPSI inspection last month and she used the DNA sample with parent's names. The filly was out of a TB mare (which was a year long process in establishing her identity!) and by a warmblood stallion. The stallion was already in their stallion book, so they had his DNA on file. When she basically rescued the filly, my friend managed to get a hair sample from mare. When she finally got the JC name of the mare, she submitted the DNA and name for verification. Dpending on the registry, they will help you to some degree.

In the case of her filly, the breeder became very ill and fell on hard times. Due to illness, he never got around to keeping accurate files on the babies...

[JWB]

Also, if she's TB with a visible lip tattoo you can track down her papers through the JC. I showed my mare for years with no idea as to her true identity (bought her as an OTTB) and got her papers six years later. She's had 7 foals now.

[kealea31]

She also could be inspected with ISR/Old NA. If she passed she could go in the pre mare book and foals can be registered.

[Best View]

These are great thoughts... I am going to look into all of this. I am told she is by Starman but no papers... so maybe I could get some DNA verification. She seems like a really nice mare and I would hate to pass her up!

[juniormom]

We have a mare out of Alme (on her papers), but there is no dam listed. We believe that she is actually out of Alme Star, as there was only 1 grey born the last year Alme was alive. He could only be done using live semen and was in France. Our mare has a Brazillian branding on her side, but we haven't been able to find out anything else. Does anyone have any ideas? We have tried the Brazillain registry site, but we are unable to read it. Thank you for your help! We have had a passport with this mare, and are trying to breed her. We just want one of her babies, but it would be nice to find the rest of her info. ;)

[maggiecat]

She sounds like a wonderful mare! If you breed her to an approved Swedish stallion, the foal will get Swedish papers, just in a lower book. For USEF or USDF purposes, as well as SWANA (Swedish Warmblood Association), the foal will be seen as a Swedish warmblood for for competition and HOY awards. Same limitation as other registries on producing a stallion, but her foals can be inspected and also branded (foals must have a minimum score to be branded with the Swedish crown). For more info on Swedish stallions (some stallion owners are still shipping :)
see http://www.swanaoffice.org

Best wishes,

Mary

[YankeeLawyer]

These are great thoughts... I am going to look into all of this. I am told she is by Starman but no papers... so maybe I could get some DNA verification. She seems like a really nice mare and I would hate to pass her up!

If she is by Starman, you should really try to get this verified. Those are very desirable and valuable bloodlines. Maybe check with UC Davis to see if they have Starman's DNA on record? Then you could send a mane sample and see if you have a match. It is about $60 for a DNA test.

[nsm]

If she is that nice and has has a good career, I would not worry. I have one mare that I acquired to breed with no papers, but on the other hand, she has jumped $100,000 classes, with a record like she has, lack of pedigree is not an issue plus as has been suggested, DNA and BWP.
Go for it--

Nancy

[YankeeLawyer]

If she is that nice and has has a good career, I would not worry. I have one mare that I acquired to breed with no papers, but on the other hand, she has jumped $100,000 classes, with a record like she has, lack of pedigree is not an issue plus as has been suggested, DNA and BWP.
Go for it--

Nancy

Yes but Starman mares are rather rare; if she is indeed a Starman mare it would nice to be able to have that lineage documented to carry it on.

[DownYonder]

I posted this on another thread, but it also applies in this situation.

"At any rate, your mare may be eligible for Oldenburg's (GOV) lowest mare book (PMBII). Her foals sired by Oldenburg-approved or acknowledged stallions would then be eligible for regular Oldenburg registration papers. There would be some restrictions on the foals, though - they would not be eligible for premium foal awards, the colts would not be eligible for stallion status, and the fillies would only be allowed to move up one mare book. If you do manage to get full AHS papers for your mare, she would then be eligible for Oldenburg's MMB, which would also remove all restrictions on her foals."

[JWB]

Another vote for the BWP here! They're a fantastic, easy registry to work with. Mares in the Aux. book can have branded, registered foals. Their sons are not stallion candidates but I believe their daughters can go into the MMB and eventually produce stallions.

[Best View]

Just and update.... I went to see the mare this weekend.... She is huge - almost too big for my taste... She also was a bit mean... they said that they felt she was treated harshly in her previous situation and this is a carryover but she has been at her new barn for at least 3 years....

I have decided to pass because I just did not get the feeling that she was the right fit for my program.

Thank you all for your assistance with considering this horse. I have learned so much and think this will help me in looking at mares down the road.

[Penthilisea]

Good call! Don't breed a mare you wouldn't be thrilled to keep a 100% replica of!

[juniormom]

If anyone has any ideas about how to get our papers from the Brazillian Registry we would appreciate it. We are fairly certain that her "branding" is from that registry. She has a good show record, a good disposition, and a heart of gold. Her legs are like "springs." Thank you in advance for your help! :)

[juniormom]

Giving this a bump to see if anyone has any suggestions?