RIP old saddle... Edited to add Phillipe Fontaine review

[gypsymare]

It's been six years so I guess I can't complain. The seat on my no-name saddle is starting to tear and it's not worth a $500-$600 repair bill. I could get a patch on it for awhile but the prospect of saddle shopping is too exciting to pass up. I'd also like something with a bit more forward flap for over fences and hunting. I think I could get a decent price if I sold mine. The leather is lovely and other than the seat it is in great condition.

I think I can get what I'm looking for under $1200. So I looked through a tack shop earlier and I wasn't pleased with the leather quality of the HDRs and Collegiates. Then this beautiful chocolate saddle caught my eye. A Phillipe Fontaine Lauren. Which is also pretty cool since that's my name. After a bit more research I found the Danielle and I think it's GORGEOUS. I do NOT want velcro blocks so the Lauren is out. The downside is that these are gel foam panels, not wool... but with a good pad and fit does it matter? I'm very partial to red tack and I think the stitching is beautiful.

So my question is, has anyone tried the Phillipe Fontaine saddles? There were a couple of threads about them but nothing about long term how they held up or if the foam panels became a problem. I did read that the panels were quite narrow but I have not been able to find a picture of the underside of the Danielle to determine if it has the same problem.

Any info is appreciated.

edit: correction... the Lauren model does NOT have velcro blocks. I was confusing it with the Diane that I also saw that day

[gypsymare]

bump

[Little Indian]

I haven't personally tried one, but at the tack shop I work at, we have sold a fair amount. Most of them seem to have a pretty forward flap that that doesn't seem to work for some people. If you want something in the same price range, the M. Toulouse Annice seems to fit a little better, plus you get the nice double leather.

[gypsymare]

Thanks for the info! I've stayed away from the Annice... I really don't like velcro blocks and I haven't been impressed by the leather quality on the M. Toulouse saddles.

[Little Indian]

The Fontaine's have velcro blocks also, just a FYI.

[gypsymare]

The pictures of the Danielle don't but I have yet to actually get my hands on one.

[Marney]

Aren't the Fontaine's made by Stubben? I am also looking at these saddles.

[Little Indian]

they are just distributed by them.

[gypsymare]

OK, this is strange. I was looking through Dover online and thought, "Oh look! They carry the PF saddles, too!" So I clicked on it... and it was a Pessoa Legacy XP3 XCH. Identical to the PF Danielle from the stitching down to the shape of the leather keeper. Different trees though obviously.

What gives? I thought PF was affiliated with Stubben? This is too similar to be coincidental!!

The Pessoa:
http://www.vtosaddlery.com/prodimg/pessoaxp3.jpg

The PF:
http://www.pfsaddles.com/PFdanielle.html

[MustangSally00]

No help with the saddle here - but the PF saddles are not made by Stuebben, they are being distributed by them. So not the same construction or trees. Just FYI

[chelsealaurenmurphy]

i would like to hear more about them too. i fell in love with the danielle when i first saw it because of it's beautiful color. but i'm pretty sure it has the adjustable knee blocks. i heard it's very good for high withered horses, too. and i've heard the leather feels pre-broken in. some of the reviews say that the flap isn't as forward cut as they'd like, so i'm wondering how well it will work for jumping.

[gypsymare]

I just ordered the Danielle from my local tack shop today so if it doesn't fit right it can go back. I should have it by the end of next week. Someone had a used Danielle for sale and the pictures showed immobile blocks so I'm really hoping that's what they are! That ad and some non-stock photos are here:
http://ottawa.kijiji.ca/c-pets-livestock-for-sale-17-5-Philippe-fontaine-close-contact-saddle-for-sale-W0QQAdIdZ140763385

I'm still really curious about the Pessoa twin and why they are nearly identical looking. I tried calling the number on the PF site and it was out of service!!

I've read that the balance on the PF saddles is not good for flatwork... much better for jumping (like Stubbens) but I sat in the Lauren today and I didn't think the flap was very far forward at all. I didn't have stirrups on it so I can't comment on the balance. The Renee's flap was much farther forward and would be better for shorter stirrup work--higher jumps, faster speeds. The Lauren accommodated a much straighter leg. i'm hoping the Danielle is somewhere inbetween. We'll find out next week!

[PROTACKGUY]

An old friend of mine, Joe Miller used to say that a saddle is alot like a car. You really cannot tell very much unless you open the hood and check out the guts of the car.
The Fontaine is made in Argentina but it is not made by the people who make Pessoa saddles. Fontaine saddles are part of a collection of marketers who simply copy or knock off the exterior looks of a saddle.
They pick top selling sadles from great companies like Pessoa, Antares, Prestige and others and copy their looks. However what is under the hood, may be another matter.

[gypsymare]

An old friend of mine, Joe Miller used to say that a saddle is alot like a car. You really cannot tell very much unless you open the hood and check out the guts of the car.
The Fontaine is made in Argentina but it is not made by the people who make Pessoa saddles. Fontaine saddles are part of a collection of marketers who simply copy or knock off the exterior looks of a saddle.
They pick top selling sadles from great companies like Pessoa, Antares, Prestige and others and copy their looks. However what is under the hood, may be another matter.

Isn't there some sort of design copyright? I mean I can see how there's only so many different ways to build a saddle and cut the flaps but they copied it all the way down to the stitching detail that covers the stirrup leather attachment. It makes me wonder if it's not just a matter of private brand labeling especially since they are both made in Argentina. We see a lot of that in the industry I work in. You can buy the same product from us or a competitor. The brand is different, both are well known, but it all comes out of the same factory in China which neither company owns or is affiliated with.

[PROTACKGUY]

Understand what you are saying but nope not made by the same people. Copying the cosmetic appearance is really very easy... They copy every stitch, not really a difficult task at all.. So the result is that people see the cheaper knock off saddle and assume it is the same... add a french name and away you go.....

[mvp]

There's Argentine and then there's Argentine. I think the Pessoa peeps found or created the best manufacturing plant down there and other companies take the leavings. In fact, Pessoa probably did the most work to elevate (or restore?) the reputation of saddles made in Argentina.

Whatever the top of the saddle looks like, check the underside and try to feel around the panels. I think Pessoas are built with much more dedication to fit for the horse. If I had to pick one reason for starting with these guys (or possibly also the modern Ovations) and being suspicious of the rest, it is because of this feature.

[gypsymare]

This is all why I ordered it through the tack store even if it is a bit cheaper online. If it's made poorly or doesn't fit well it can just go back! Thanks for all of the input though. I'm excited to try it out. Judging from the other models I saw at the store they were far better quality than saddles of similar price point although I have no way to inspect the tree.

[gypsymare]

Well I got the saddle in and it's going back. Primarily because it doesn't fit my horse. Unlike the nice roomy gullet of a Stubben, the Danielle has a very narrow channel and it was putting pressure on either side of my horse's spine just behind the withers.

Secondly, the quality was absolute trash. I had high hopes after looking over the other PF saddle at the store and I can't believe this one could come out of the same workshop and be so much worse. The piping along the back of the seat was warped and horrible looking, the billet attachments were cheap, cheap, cheap, the leather looked and felt like it would not last more than a year or two of hard use and the sweat flaps were dented in where they attached to the panels. It looked to run on the narrower side of medium. I was very disappointed.

Sooo the search continues. I'm leaning towards a Stubben now, and might be able to buy a nicely kept used one off of a friend. If not, I'll spring for new. They are pretty reasonable!

[KateKat]

Bummer! Saddle shopping blows. Fortunately I should be having one come to me that just needs some seat repairs (if I chose to). However, I love the saddle and plan on keeping it for a long time so the $600 repairs might be worth it to me. Might it just be worth it to make the necessary repairs if you loved everything else about your old saddle?