my horse is dropping weight FAST.. new update 8/18 he's back in the round pen!!??!!

[pippa553]

So to give you a background horse is 4 years old, trak/irish cross, 16 hands, and has just been started under saddle. For the past three weeks I was away and he wasn't worked at all. Now when I left he had a little rib going on but when I visited him the other day he is positively skinny. All the ribs are showing, tail bone pronounced, thin neck.. I call the vet immediately. We took blood, waiting for results. Negative on worms in the fecal and we scheduled teeth for this monday although when he looked in his mouth he didn't see anything too horrible. He will be able to tell more when said horse is sedated. When I tried to get him to work he wasn't willing to go forward like he had been but no lameness. Barn owner says he is getting 3 lbs grain and 25 lbs grass hay a day. Vet advises to move him into 7 lbs of senior 2 lbs of rice bran, and an additional 10 lbs alfalfa to his current hay :eek:

Anyone care to speculate what is going on with him? I've never had a horse drop weight like this before. The other horses in the barn look fine, but are on pasture full day. My horse is in a round pen right now, no grass.

-------------------------------

8-18

So I get a call from BO and turns out another horse, who wasn't in my horse's pasture, got into trouble over the weekend in his pasture and now has taken the place of my horse in his pasture. This of course leaves my horse back in the round pen because he doesn't get along with this other horse. I can't believe it, he was just starting to put on weight and such a different attitude to boot. I swear I saw a glimmer of affection in his eye the other night. I almost cried when BO told me he was in the pen. I can't believe it considering they were right there when the vet told me my horse needs to be on pasture. When I asked the BO about this they told me, "well you told me multiple times you are leaving in a few months". What does that have to do with pasture? I was trying to be considerate. It's only been a day since he wasn't on turnout but I swear he's already dropped weight. Is that even possible?? :cry:

[KrazyTBMare]

Unfortunately I dont have any suggestions. I know there are others who are way more knowledgable than I am with this stuff. I would think some type of illness too. I hope the blood work comes back quickly for you.

What is in the round pen as far as footing? Is it sand? Is the horse treated for sand at all? My boarders horse dropped weight quickly and I had also just changed a few things in the feeding program so I figured it was that. I was tweaking his feed and then one night he was acting colicy. The next AM after meds, he was still NQR - called the vet and he had an impaction and needed IVs. We took him to the clinic and on the trailer he had pooped but it was solid sand. He was kept in paddocks that were dirt/sand before my girlfriend bought him and is also a "vacuum" and will eat any little scrap of food from the ground.

Is his hay fed to him on the ground in the dirt?

I hope you figure out what is going on soon. Jingles for you and your pony!

[Einstein]

Are you sure the barn is feeding him the proper amount?

[ThoroughbredFancy]

You mentioned you just started him under saddle. Does he seem stressed out at all by this? Or any of the training that is going on?

[pippa553]

The round pen is sand. I will mention it to the vet. We haven't seen any signs of colic.. yet. As far as whether the barn is feeding him the proper amount, well I'm not sure when they feed but I never had an inclination that she was lying about it. I suppose it could be the issue but wouldn't all the horses be thin then?

The vet did mention that it could be stress related but the weight drop was while he wasn't being worked. Could stress really cause that much weight loss?

[FindersKeepers]

It's possible he was stressed because he wasn't being worked. He may be one that really needs a job to do. There could be other factors as well. He might be hot, the flies could be getting to him, etc.

Hopefully the bloodwork will come back good, and then you know that it's an environmental issue (meaning needs more/different feed, etc.)

It is also possible that he is ingesting too much sand. It may not be enough to cause colic yet, but enough to make him uncomfortable and not want to eat.

Also, is he out alone in the round pen, or with a buddy? If he has a buddy it's possible his friend is bullying him away from his food, and he's not getting all that he is being fed.

[KrazyTBMare]

I will say that my boarders horse did drop weight quickly prior to him colicing. Grab a few balls of his poop and put it in a bucket of water and stir and then let it sit and seperate. Pour off the water and anything more than a teaspoon of sand is bad. Psyllium pellets or a product like Sand Clear (same thing but more expensive) to move the sand out.

[pippa553]

I'm going to do the sand test today and see what I find. One other new thing I noticed is that he is walking circles in his stall which also started while I was away. Is it common to have a horse all of the sudden become anxious? Before this he just seemed so at ease with everything.

I will get the blood work back tomorrow.

[luvmytbs]

Why is he in a round pen and not on pasture?

[KrazyTBMare]

Maybe he is anxious because he doesnt feel well? Good luck with your guy.

[pippa553]

Well I did the sand test and I found minimal to no sand at all which is good, i suppose, but also a little worrisome. He's in the round pen because I believe the barn owner has some anxieties about turning him out with the others. The way her stable is set up there is only group turnout and 90% of the horses are retired. I think she's scared he's going to get hurt or hurt someone else. I'm not sure.

[RiverBendPol]

I'd scope him for ulcers and test him for Lyme.

[FindersKeepers]

He's probably pacing because he's anxious and bored out of his mind. If he's not going out with others, he at least had you showing up to ride and give him something to do with his time. Then you weren't able to make it out and he had nothing to do... so they develop habits to pass the time.

I'd sit down and have a serious talk with the BO about getting him out. If they go out in a group, there will be herd dynamics in place to make sure everyone stays safe and happy. It might be a rough few days of introduction, but worth it for your boys sanity.

[Tangerine Farmer]

The pacing will eat up a lot of calories. My stallion looked fantasticly fit and I fed him HUGE amounts of alfalfa to combat the walking. He is a gelding now and is prone to plumpness, and he gets to hang out with the girls.

3 weeks of that kind of exercise could do it if he were slim to begin with???

[BuddyRoo]

Pacing does burn a lot of calories...

It sounds like maybe this isn't the best setup for a young, fit horse...

Have you dewormed for tapes? (praziquantel) They don't show up in a fecal.

Has he had any recent (even minor) injury that could be causing pain? They will sometimes not eat as well and will lose weight with chronic pain.

I would be trying to keep hay in front of him at all times...even if that means that you have to buy some of your own--IF the vet thinks it's really a matter of calories.

You can also add oil to the feed to increase calories.

ETA: Probiotics seem to sometimes help horses process nutrients better as well. Might be worth adding.

[shakeytails]

The pacing/stall walking will cause one to drop weight fast. One of my stallions will stall walk a few times a year and when he does he drops weight like crazy- partly b/c he's expending a lot of energy and partly b/c when he gets in this mode he doesn't eat much hay. And with this guy, turnout doesn't help since he'll just run the fenceline.

It may sound counter-productive, but you might want to consider putting him back to work very lightly. It'll help build some muscle and might alleviate his boredom- which may be part of the problem.

[CAH]

How long have you been at this barn?

The nutritional needs of 90% of the other horses who are retirees (and out on pasture all day) vs the needs of a 4 year old in training are very different. Bottom line is that he is not getting enough to eat. Listen to your vet. Time to make some major management changes. And that includes getting him out of the round pen.

[goeslikestink]

So to give you a background horse is 4 years old, trak/irish cross, 16 hands, and has just been started under saddle. For the past three weeks I was away and he wasn't worked at all. Now when I left he had a little rib going on but when I visited him the other day he is positively skinny. All the ribs are showing, tail bone pronounced, thin neck.. I call the vet immediately. We took blood, waiting for results. Negative on worms in the fecal and we scheduled teeth for this monday although when he looked in his mouth he didn't see anything too horrible. He will be able to tell more when said horse is sedated. When I tried to get him to work he wasn't willing to go forward like he had been but no lameness. Barn owner says he is getting 3 lbs grain and 25 lbs grass hay a day. Vet advises to move him into 7 lbs of senior 2 lbs of rice bran, and an additional 10 lbs alfalfa to his current hay :eek:

Anyone care to speculate what is going on with him? I've never had a horse drop weight like this before. The other horses in the barn look fine, but are on pasture full day. My horse is in a round pen right now, no grass.


working him to hard and not feeding him the the work given
hes in a rpund pen------- get him out on that lush grass

[ladipus]

So to give you a background horse is 4 years old, trak/irish cross, 16 hands, and has just been started under saddle. For the past three weeks I was away and he wasn't worked at all. Now when I left he had a little rib going on but when I visited him the other day he is positively skinny. All the ribs are showing, tail bone pronounced, thin neck.. I call the vet immediately. We took blood, waiting for results. Negative on worms in the fecal and we scheduled teeth for this monday although when he looked in his mouth he didn't see anything too horrible. He will be able to tell more when said horse is sedated. When I tried to get him to work he wasn't willing to go forward like he had been but no lameness. Barn owner says he is getting 3 lbs grain and 25 lbs grass hay a day. Vet advises to move him into 7 lbs of senior 2 lbs of rice bran, and an additional 10 lbs alfalfa to his current hay :eek:

Anyone care to speculate what is going on with him? I've never had a horse drop weight like this before. The other horses in the barn look fine, but are on pasture full day. My horse is in a round pen right now, no grass.

ULCERS....are the first thing that come to mind. What kind of grain? and how high is it in starch/sugar?feeds high in starch/sugar aggrevate sensitive tummies- increase things slowly,and add or subtract things one at a time to see what's working and what's not working...you can give a high fat/high fiber/low starch feed....Triple Crown Senior or Triple Crown Low starch are excellent choices for horses that need to gain weight and are gentle on the tummies...also-a probiotic will help w/ digestion/weight gain,alfalfa is great for adding calories and is good for the tummy as well...also...plain soaked beetpulp is a great way to add more fiber/calories...then if after trying some of these options you still need more-you can add rice bran...but turning him out on some pasture if he can tolerate it will also do wonders...then i'd recommend an ulcer supplement such as Corta Flx Ugard or Finish Line's u7 gastric aid or Pro CMC and a good probiotic is Fastract,Probios,or Tractguard

and free choice good quality hay and as much turnout as he'll tolerate...but push as much hay on him as he wants

[Einstein]

How long have you been at this barn?

The nutritional needs of 90% of the other horses who are retirees (and out on pasture all day) vs the needs of a 4 year old in training are very different. Bottom line is that he is not getting enough to eat. Listen to your vet. Time to make some major management changes. And that includes getting him out of the round pen.

I agree. Why do so many people start with diagnostics, before increasing the horses's intake?:cool:

[AnotherRound]

This poor horse is bored bored bored. What weight he has he's pacing off. He apparently does not have enough food to maintain weight, much less put it on. He's still growing. After you've addressed those problems, then youcan look for disease. as it is, he is presenting appropriately for his age and handling, under the restrictions you are giving him. If you can't sort it out at this barn, find another. And dont automaticaly think the BO is feeding him consistently what he is supposed to be getting, until you are there often enough to see it for yourself.

If he's in a round pen all day, he should have hay in front of him at all times.

[fooler]

Get him out of the round pen into a the pasture with some horse company. They are herd animals and need the interaction. Must be tough to be in the round pen while everyone else is in the pasture doing horsey things. The BO should be able to find a suitable match for him to begin introducing him to the herd. It will be good for him to have some socialization and probably good for the herd to have a "kid" around. Did you ever watch older humans when a kid is in their midst? They perk up & the kid learns ever so much.

[Waterwitch]

Are you sure the barn is feeding him the proper amount?


Second this line of query...my friend has a horse (also an ISH) who was dropping weight like crazy despite getting fed (supposedly) 3 pounds of ration balancer when he was hog fat on 2 pounds before. We subsequently discovered the the horse was NOT being fed what he was supposed to be getting fed. Presumably the barn owner was trying to save money by cutting the feed back, on top of not feeding enough hay. Needless to say, we moved said horse to a more knowledgeable/ethical boarding facility, but not before a lot of money was spent on bloodwork, and dentals, and deworming. My friend naively thought the BO was feeding what it said on the feed chart, because, what self respecting equine professional would lie about that :rolleyes:

So the moral is...ALWAYS check that the horse is getting the groceries it is supposed to FIRST. Then make sure the groceries he is actually getting provide enough calories. And make sure he is getting plenty of forage and clean water. Adjust all of the above if necessary first.

Then I would recommend deworming with larvicidal doses of fenbendazole (double dose 5 days in a row) - remember fecals do not tell you anything about encysted strongyle load, and as the previous poster mentioned, deworm for tapes if you haven't (double dose pyrantel or single dose praziquantel). Address the housing/stress issues and check for ulcers. Make sure he's not loaded with sand.

Good luck.

[Loves to ride]

Pippa,

Any updates?

Did you get the bloodwork back?

Hoping you've been able to find the cause!

[pippa553]

So I'm happy to say we got the bloodwork back and it was fine. Also went ahead with a dental and the vet said his teeth actually looked pretty good. We popped out one baby tooth that hadn't fallen out yet but that wouldn't of caused the weight loss. Dental vet also agreed all of this was due to lack of groceries. He advised me to spend my money on top quality hay and alfalfa, supplement with grain and rice bran.

For those of you who mentioned the barn owner may have been skimping well I hate to say it but I think there may have been something there. When I picked up the alfalfa and talked to BO about mixing it with his existing hay, BO hemmed and hawed and said something about the extra hay (over two flakes) not being included in the full board and would have to raise my board in the next month or two. Now I've boarded at this barn before with an old horse who was just fine and moved to a bigger place that was more expensive when I needed their larger facility. Now I'm back at the small place and maybe BO feels I can afford more so I should pay more? IDK


On a more positive note he is now out on pasture. I had to supervise the turnout at BO's request but he did fine after a few squeals and kicks. It is hardly lush or green but it is something and hopefully he'll be mentally more happy as well. Oh and I did put him on a pro-bio. I figure it can't hurt.

[MMEventing]

When I was in FL this past winter BOTH of my UL horses stopped eating and dropped weight, quick. I put them on Ulcerguard and Cimetidine twice a day. Changed to a different feed (Ultium or XTN) very tasty and high fat food. And put them on Alfalfa cubes. Now they are as fat as I will allow.

[SandyUHC]

Why do people start with diagnostics? Sometimes you waste money in order to PROVE your horse's problem is a grocery deficiency because what the BO says and what the BO does turns out to be very different.

Tough situation, pippa, hope you are able to get sufficient feed and forage to your horse without a lot of trouble.

Edit: Oh, and if you do SmartPaks, they have a great high-fat cocasoya supplement that includes probiotics.

[talloaks]

Be careful in turing out your horse on pasture for the first time. It will have to be gradual just like changing any of his feed. You can't just turn him out for 12 or 24 hours and think everything will be fine. Good luck!! It does sound like your horse needs FOOD!!

[Char]

Glad to hear that nothing major was wrong!

Just throwing this out there, but have you measured him lately? It could be that in the midst of the rest of the stuff that he may have hit a late growth spurt?

Again, just throwing it out there.

Good luck!

[pippa553]

Why do people start with diagnostics? Sometimes you waste money in order to PROVE your horse's problem is a grocery deficiency because what the BO says and what the BO does turns out to be very different.

Ah and there's the rub. At least none of the vet procedures were too out of the ordinary, teeth, blood, etc. I just didn't want to believe BO wasn't feeding him enough since the last horse I boarded there didn't have this problem. Of course he was older, a different breed, etc etc. and the whole economy is different, not as many boarders, who knows.

I'm now buying all of my grain, (TC complete), rice bran, pro-bios, alfalfa and hay on top of my full board so he better start putting on some pounds. When I was working with him last night he did seem a bit taller to me but I'm going to stick him tonight and double check. It's exciting!!! :D

Also good to hear about the cocosoya. I'm going to check it out and crunch some numbers.

Thanks for the turnout tip reminder, the pasture is hardly green we've had a drought, but I have been going there and turning him in half day.. oy! Remind me why I pay full board???

[millwrightmomma]

He is pacing, get him the heck out of that stall and onto grass.
Up his feed, that is not enough for a horse that size, or age.

Get a chiropractor and make sure his neck and everything else is in alighment.

[pippa553]

update in first post

[laskiblue]

Just read your update, OP -- it doesn't sound like this boarding situation is optimal for your growing young guy. His nutritional and activity level needs aren't being met there and it sounds like your BO has his/her own agenda. Time to look for a new situation, IMHO.

[CAH]

Your BO's message is loud and clear. So is what your horse is telling you.

Adios.....

[talloaks]

Move your horse FAST!! Sorry it isn't working out, but if it isn't now, it never will. Find a better place with more understanding people. Good Luck!:)

[atr]

Not every boarding establishment suits every horse, and you've put yourself and your horse at the bottom of the pecking order by being decent and honest about your longer term intentions. It'll probably be cheaper and certainly be better for your and your horse's mental and physical health if you bit the bullet and move on now.

Ain't boarding fun?

[Einstein]

Why do people start with diagnostics? Sometimes you waste money in order to PROVE your horse's problem is a grocery deficiency because what the BO says and what the BO does turns out to be very different.

Tough situation, pippa, hope you are able to get sufficient feed and forage to your horse without a lot of trouble.

Edit: Oh, and if you do SmartPaks, they have a great high-fat cocasoya supplement that includes probiotics.

I hear ya'.:D Anytime there's a change in my horses weight, I always make sure they're receiving enough food.
99.9% of the time, there's been a change in their diet that I was unaware of.:yes: