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Go Fish
Aug. 9, 2009, 12:12 AM
Can professionals show in the long stirrup or is it restricted to amateurs? Some prize lists are not specific. My friend who is an up-down instructor wants to enter her greenie in this division at a local show. Because the division is unrated, is it up to show management to decide who the class is open to?

HunterRider992
Aug. 9, 2009, 01:57 AM
Yes, it's up to the management, but typically the division is for older beginner type riders, like short stirrup, except for people that started riding later/re-riders.

mrsbradbury
Aug. 9, 2009, 08:47 AM
Is there not a division for the horse. When I read the prize lists for non-rated shows; I follow this rule of thumb:

If the class name denotes "rider", or refers to such it is for amateurs. If the class name denotes a level of horse, it would be open to professionals.

Your friend should ask if there is another division, I would find it inappropriate for her to show in the long stirrup.

Wizard of Oz's
Aug. 9, 2009, 09:20 AM
As far as I know pros aren't allowed in long stirrup classes. I haven't done long stirrups in a long time, but isn't it all eq. classes? If so, then it definately wouldn't be fair if your trainer did long stirrup. Why doesn't she just do pre-greens?

Hunter Mom
Aug. 9, 2009, 09:38 AM
While it would be incredibly tacky for her to enter even if not restricted (which they almost always are) if there wasn't anything else and she just wanted miles, she could always enter not to be judged. Up down lessons or no, she chose to be a pro.

spmoonie
Aug. 9, 2009, 09:45 AM
At our local recognized shows, long stirrup is for riders over the age of 12 in their first or second year of showing. Now say the pro had just joined the state hunter/jumper association, and had never shown at one of these recognized shows, then Im not sure, but they may be elligible.

FAW
Aug. 9, 2009, 10:41 AM
Long Stirrup is adult beginner 18 and older. Eq classes are usually a different division. If there is a warmup card to the division that says warm up at the height L/S is, a pro can ride in it.

GallopGirl
Aug. 9, 2009, 11:49 AM
It's all up to management if the show is unrated. I just took my 5 year old to a little local show for miles. I was watching the long stirrup and a pro took her greenie into the class. She flipped over her number and wasn't judged. She just wanted the horse to be able to go around in a new place over "scary" looking new jumps at 2'. If a pro rides in long stirrup and is judged, that is the tackiest thing I've ever heard. The whole idea of the lower divisions is to give novice riders a chance to compete and possibly win ribbons. No need for a pro to win ribbons at a local show. It's not going to go on the horse's show record, so what's the point?

imapepper
Aug. 9, 2009, 02:31 PM
I was watching the long stirrup and a pro took her greenie into the class. She flipped over her number and wasn't judged. She just wanted the horse to be able to go around in a new place over "scary" looking new jumps at 2'. If a pro rides in long stirrup and is judged, that is the tackiest thing I've ever heard. The whole idea of the lower divisions is to give novice riders a chance to compete and possibly win ribbons. No need for a pro to win ribbons at a local show. It's not going to go on the horse's show record, so what's the point?

This is what I would do if I were a pro and needed a class for my greenie and have done this before when I was teaching up downers :) Most shows are very accomdating to pros that want to show h/c :)

hunter1985
Aug. 9, 2009, 06:18 PM
It really depends on the Show Series, Management, or that particular barn.

I have shown Long Sturrup on a green pony as a trainer. I called the farm in advance and asked what classes were considered "open" for a trainer pony rider and she told me their long sturrup division was open specifically for that.

I would recommend calling the Show Management ahead of time and asking!

Go Fish
Aug. 10, 2009, 12:21 AM
Thanks, everyone for your replies. The show in question is "A" rated. There's absolutely no information in the prize list that restricts the class to amateurs and the height of the jumps is listed at 2'3". The only other class in the prize list is at 2'6" and my friend would prefer to show her greenie at
2'3" for his first show, so the LS is the only available class. Like I said, the prize list makes no mention defining eligibility of the rider (age, years in the division, number of wins, etc,) or the number of years the horse has been showing in the LS. As matter of fact, a horse can show in the LS forever.

For obvious reasons listed above (horse is green), it's not appropriate to show it in the pre-greens (3' to 3'3"). Normally, LS in my area requires that the rider be 18" years in age. Short stirrup horses is restricted to riders 17 years and under.

There is no restriction in the LS in my area for riders that have won 2 or more firsts in a year's time or restrictions that limit horses that have won 2 or more firsts in a year.

I agree that turning her number backwards would be a good idea. It sounds like either way, she would be eligible to show her greenie in this devision. I have noticed that the LS classes in my area seem to consist of amy riders, 18 and over, but as long as the prize list is not specific, my friend appears to be eligible to show her baby boy in the 2'3" LS division,

Again, thanks for all your input. :)

superpony123
Aug. 10, 2009, 01:03 AM
Yes, it's up to management to decide. Typically, it's literally an adult version of short stirrup. It's for beginners, whom are in their later teens (too old for SS) and adults. Generally, most shows would put a rule of some sort (cannot have shown over 2' or something of that sort). If the trainer wants to get the horse in just for the experience, enter in the division and ask not to be judged (they will understand it's just a green bean horse)

M. O'Connor
Aug. 10, 2009, 06:43 AM
Long stirrup, like short stirrup is for beginner RIDERS--you don't have to walk around the block many times before learning that...and while it would be nice if shows would print every detail about the specifications for every class, many managements simply don't, to keep costs down.

However, your friend, even if she restricts her teaching to up-downers, should perhaps become better educated about horse showing in general before taking a greenie to horse shows, whatever the size.

From your description, it doesn't sound like that show is the right place for her to start.

If she is looking for a place to start an inexperienced horse, a ring full of inexperienced riders is NOT a suitable venue, no matter what size show it is, or what rating it has.

Your friend horse would be better off starting somewhere smaller, unrated, or if she chooses to go rated, looking for a show with more appropriate offerings from which to choose. Typically, classes where pros will be test driving the greenies are earlier in the schedule than those offered for juniors and amateurs.

Look for classes like: "baby green hunters, infant hunters, low hunters, special hunters," and such. Many green horses also start in pleasure hack divisions--there still might be a mix of ammies and pros in it, but the ammies are typically mounted on pretty bombproof horses (that's why they are pleasureble), which makes for a less volatile situation if a greenie should happen to blow a fuse.

englishivy
Aug. 10, 2009, 09:28 AM
Around here, our 2'3" LS is for riders 13+ in age who haven't shown over 2'6 in the past 5 years. It's perfect for "too old for SS but not ready for the real hunters" teens, as well as the adult re-rider who may have shown at higher levels but took a substantial break and needs to ease back in. It isn't designed for pros on greenies.

I am a pro, and I focus on reschools, breaking babies, and further education for greenies; therefore, it has been a while since I've shown a horse over 2'6". If not limited to a junior or ammy riders (which our LS is), I technically could qualify to do the division.

However, I would NEVER do it, even at the local unrated shows. There are usually divisions like a schooling hunter or baby green division I can do them in, or sometimes there is a judged warm-up o/f. If I am just hellbent on showing at a particular show, and there really isn't an appropriate class, I would be satisfied with schooling o/f the day before and just doing an open flat.

You can check with management and get their input, but even if they said I could, I personally wouldn't do it.

Madison
Aug. 10, 2009, 01:40 PM
I agree that turning her number backwards would be a good idea. It sounds like either way, she would be eligible to show her greenie in this devision. I have noticed that the LS classes in my area seem to consist of amy riders, 18 and over, but as long as the prize list is not specific, my friend appears to be eligible to show her baby boy in the 2'3" LS division,

I guess I am confused as to how you would conclude your friend is eligible if she is a pro (honestly, while some people might debate what the specific ammy criteria are for long stirrup if it is not spelled out, no one would ever expect it to be a pro division simply because it didn't expressly say it). Also, many A shows are not going to let her show unjudged in a division she is not actually eligible for because they typically have too many trips to get through. A local show, or a baby-green-hunter division at an A show, or even taking the horse to school or do ticketed warm-up at the A show, seem like better options for this situation.

imapepper
Aug. 10, 2009, 04:48 PM
Thanks, everyone for your replies. The show in question is "A" rated. There's absolutely no information in the prize list that restricts the class to amateurs and the height of the jumps is listed at 2'3". The only other class in the prize list is at 2'6" and my friend would prefer to show her greenie at
2'3" for his first show, so the LS is the only available class. Like I said, the prize list makes no mention defining eligibility of the rider (age, years in the division, number of wins, etc,) or the number of years the horse has been showing in the LS. As matter of fact, a horse can show in the LS forever.

For obvious reasons listed above (horse is green), it's not appropriate to show it in the pre-greens (3' to 3'3"). Normally, LS in my area requires that the rider be 18" years in age. Short stirrup horses is restricted to riders 17 years and under.

I am guessing the Baby Green division is 2'6". I would say she should skip this show and look for some unrecognized shows to school at before she takes him to a rated show. It would be a lot cheaper and probably offer her some more classes for a better schooling experience.

Einstein
Aug. 10, 2009, 05:26 PM
A pro should not be showing in the Long Stirrup division.
Find a pro division that is suitable for the horse and stay out of the beginner classes.:D

Einstein
Aug. 10, 2009, 05:31 PM
I am guessing the Baby Green division is 2'6". I would say she should skip this show and look for some unrecognized shows to school at before she takes him to a rated show. It would be a lot cheaper and probably offer her some more classes for a better schooling experience.


Or maybe do a warm up if possible.:D

muse2greats
Sep. 2, 2011, 05:24 PM
:no:
I found this forum while searching for this exact question.
Here's the situation: I am 36yo; Have a coming 4 yo TB colt that I have been riding and teaching to jump.
My local H/J shows have LS classes for both HUS and EQ.
My delima is that 1.) I under USEF have not been an amateur since I was 18. 2.) I have never shown any horse since 18 over any type of jump at or during a show.
To make this picture better for those that are now confused; i have been training and showing arabian and half-arabian show horses and have given riding lessons (none that were H/J).
Oh, and my local organization does not allow "not be judged".
There are also, NO, local open shows that have any sort of jumping in my area and the local arab club can't put in jumping because of insurance reasons.
So, where do I go from here? It does say in the prize list:
"LONG STIRRUP 18"-2' - Open to riders 13 and over who have not jumped higher than 2'3" in classes at any show."
Yet it is under the ~NEW OR YOUNG RIDER DIVISIONS~
Would it still be tacky for me, who is an amateur in the H/J world to show a baby baby greenie in LS?
Thanks:confused:

Kestrel
Sep. 2, 2011, 06:27 PM
muse2greats, by USEF rules it doesn't matter which discipline you make your money in, by earning money training/riding horses you will be considered a pro at any rated H/J show.

Both you and the rider in question need to look for training or schooling classes, which unless specifically limited to amateurs, are open to anyone.

RockinHorse
Sep. 2, 2011, 07:17 PM
:no:
I found this forum while searching for this exact question.
Here's the situation: I am 36yo; Have a coming 4 yo TB colt that I have been riding and teaching to jump.
My local H/J shows have LS classes for both HUS and EQ.
My delima is that 1.) I under USEF have not been an amateur since I was 18. 2.) I have never shown any horse since 18 over any type of jump at or during a show.
To make this picture better for those that are now confused; i have been training and showing arabian and half-arabian show horses and have given riding lessons (none that were H/J).
Oh, and my local organization does not allow "not be judged".
There are also, NO, local open shows that have any sort of jumping in my area and the local arab club can't put in jumping because of insurance reasons.
So, where do I go from here? It does say in the prize list:
"LONG STIRRUP 18"-2' - Open to riders 13 and over who have not jumped higher than 2'3" in classes at any show."
Yet it is under the ~NEW OR YOUNG RIDER DIVISIONS~
Would it still be tacky for me, who is an amateur in the H/J world to show a baby baby greenie in LS?
Thanks:confused:

If I were you, the first thing I would check is whether you can take your horse to the local show at all. Alot of local associations I am familiar with specify no stallions.

Since you are a pro, even if you are a novice at h/j, IMO it would not be appropriate for you to show in this division.

When you were under 18 did you ever jump higher than 2'3"? If so, it appears you would not be eligible.

LaraNSpeedy
Sep. 3, 2011, 08:49 AM
My experience is that long stirrup is a beginner class. EVEN if there is no restrictions - I think it would be kind of lame for a pro to take a green horse in this class. I do understand the delimna that she doesnt want to do 2'6" - BUT THERE ARE OTHER OPTIONS:

Being a pro she should know that most of what comes her way by way of work is her reputation.

1. go unjudged
2. sometimes there is a baby green division which is lower than pre-green - I saw those at CA shows even the big ones.
3. schooling shows

SHE ALSO could wait and look around and who else is in the classes and see - if there are a lot of solid adults or other pros - then your area might be used to being pretty open in long stirrup. I have shown in 3 different sections of the US and I have always seen a small paragraph of stipulations for long stirrup. As someone said - if the name of the division specifies the rider - usually that means there are stipulations for the rider - otherwise why not just call this 'low hunters' or something? Maybe she should call the show manager and ask.

I am taking some kids to a local HJ schooling show but its at a 'big' venue - big indoor facility. The woman running it is trying to keep it true to the local A classes to a degree - its not a 'fun' show but a true 'schooling' show. And I have a rider who did 2'3" division in May and the show manager told me this girl was 'too good' to be in the short/long stirrup division. The reason this girl was in the 2'3" division at that show is that there wasnt anything smaller and her horse learned to jump in February! He just has taken to it like a pig in mud LOL!

So since this horse IS in his first year of showing and due to wanting to focus on technical things, he is in baby green division.

And by the way, the show forms that break down the divisions - it doesnt stipulate anything that would have made me think this girl was 'too good' for short/long stirrup. HOWEVER, the point the manager was trying to make is that the other riders in that division are going to be pretty green novice riders - doing a step up from the crossrails. Long and Short stirrup are sort of like Ammie starter divisions from my experience.

OveroHunter
Sep. 3, 2011, 11:34 AM
When you were under 18 did you ever jump higher than 2'3"? If so, it appears you would not be eligible.

Actually, I recently learned that as long as you haven't shown over 2'6 in the last 5 years, you are eligible... It was quite a shock for me to realize that while I showed 1.20 m jumpers as a teenager and 3'3 green hunters, I was eligible as an adult for LS!

ETA: As long as you haven't shown over 2'6 in the past 5 years and are not a pro, at least in my area.

GoingUp...POP!
Sep. 3, 2011, 09:32 PM
LOL!!!!!
Some of these people get WAY too worked up over nothing. If a trainer has a youngster that she doesn't want to put in the 2'6 ring yet (which is completely understandable) and the rules don't say anything against it, it doesn't make the trainer an awful wife beating, child eating, terrible person bound for hell. Unless the horse just outclasses the rest by a mile and a day, the greenie in question probably won't win, it isn't a derby winner, not a prix horse, and even if, the people entered in the division have just as good a chance if they apply themselves, prepare their horses, and perform the best they can.

Long stirrup is a great place to start a youngster.

MHM
Sep. 4, 2011, 08:46 AM
Have you noticed the date this thread was started? The horse in the OP is probably almost done with the first year greens by this time.

OveroHunter
Sep. 4, 2011, 10:48 AM
Lol, good point MHM!

DMK
Sep. 4, 2011, 09:37 PM
muse2greats, as said, you are a pro in the hj world. That said, if there are no other 2'0 classes that fit the bill, IF the w/u is red/blue then you can enter that as many times as you like. If it isn't, maybe you can ask if you can enter that more than once but go unjudged after the first round.

LaraNSpeedy
Sep. 4, 2011, 10:29 PM
I think the thread said this is an A show so it should be taken seriously. Long Stirrup is a division designed for amateurs in their first year(s) of showing or getting back into showing. There should be a division called baby green for pros on green horses going over small fences and trotting their corners.

If a PRO wants to show a green horse over small jumps - I think they should go unjudged to be classy. Or just go to a schooling show or a show with the appropriate division.

I would not want to see two of my adult students who are novices on their horses go in long stirrup against a pro on a green horse at an A show.
At the shows in my area and the west coast where I moved from long stirrup was classified as an amateur only division so I guess I might be coming from that experience.