Anyone here have a ha-ha? (Not a joke...I mean a ha-ha fence...)

[susanne]

I've always loved the British landscape gardens with their pastoral scenes...(if you saw where we live, you'd be in hysterics over my even saying this!)

We're looking at a property that could well lend itself to one. It's a rectangular lot on a gentle slope, with driveway roughly cutting the property in half. We would have two pastures, one above said driveway, house and garden, the other below, with dry lot/sacrifice area and barn on same level as house and driveway. There is already somewhat of a drop-off below the driveway -- far enough that you're not driving on a precipice.

This would not be a true ha-ha, which is a fence in a ditch, but instead it would be a bank/fence dropping off from the driveway, with the slope continuing downhill from there.

We'd still need a fence to prevent erosion and climbing, but down the hill from our house, we would see our horses and not the fence.

So...I'm just curious if any of you have one of these.

Now...don't hit me, but my next question is:

We have minis, so would this make our fence a mini ha-ha? (Ducking) My question is serious, even my sense of humor is warped.

[Bluey]

Some questions beg for pictures, or at least a link, for those of us of lesser imagination.:rolleyes:

I had to google it to believe that name.:p
That type of fence is commonly known as sunken fence:

http://www.worldwidewords.org/weirdwords/ww-hah1.htm

I don't see why not, seems to fit with your topography there.:cool:
You may even add some water to it and alligators later, especially if your neighbor's have annoying kids.:winkgrin:

[Woodland]

Is this it? http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_uH8JDRwUtr0/SSdA94dGTfI/AAAAAAAAAWs/C6L9koD49wM/s320/HaHa.jpg

I do not have one but Brookfield Zoo has lots of them!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ha-ha

[susanne]

You're right, Bluey...I meant to include this:

http://srv2.lycoming.edu/~lewes/shelleysites/Shelley%20Pictures/June%2012%201999%20Field%20Place%20(day%20one)/Disk%2003/MVC-010X.jpg

My concept is to leave out the berm on the downhill side. A little less like a moat, lol, although I love the idea of neighbor brats and unwelcome visitors as gator bait...

[Eventaholic]

I have a better idea. Let's move to England. I found the picture you later included (I googled it, what can I say, I'm a bit impatient and didn't read through the whole topic until after), and how incredibly beautiful is that estate?!

Yup. The easy solution here is to simply move into a royal estate where one is already in place. :yes:

[Bluey]

I wonder, would those fences be effective only from one side, if they are made as a bank on the upper part?
The animals below would not be able to go above, but the animals on the upper part could easily just jump down below.

Our horses scramble up and down caprocks with larger breaks on the ground than those wimpy ha-ha fences seem to be.
Maybe our horses are half goat.;)

[Woodland]

Woe to those trying to contain their CC horse in one - I recall jumping them back in my 3 day years - scary good fun!

[goodhors]

Something I read, was that the Ha-Ha KEPT the animal population away from the house area. Access was down a gated driveway, preventing animals entering. With the sharp bank side and fencing on the lower, away side, the house got the uninterrupted view outward, no visible fences. Such a view makes things look bigger, adding to an expansive feeling for the looker in the house area, walking in gardens surrounding the home.

I don't think the people with the Ha-Ha allowed the animals to come close to the house and yard. Certainly did not want to walk in poop, or smell it up close as they went for a stroll in nice clothing, it was lawn or garden layouts around the homes.

So no paddock or pasture is normally above the bank area. No erosion from animal hooves along that sharp bank edging, and no visible fences wanted.

Setup of OP sounds like it would work for a Ha-Ha, but you are defeating the reason for having it, with pasture above the bank. Even fenced, erosion will be a problem with animals above on the bank edge.

Was a very creative way to fence and not have to look at it or work to keep it up. Quite effective, few animals want to tackle such a high bank, look for easier ways to go around it.

[Doodlebug1]

Our horses scramble up and down caprocks with larger breaks on the ground than those wimpy ha-ha fences seem to be.
Maybe our horses are half goat.;)

There is a massive variation of Ha-Ha's here and I think the design depended on what animals were grazing in your parkland. Many estates here had 'ornamental' cattle that were used for beef and milk but also looked the part: http://www.whiteparkcattle.org.uk/ - considerably less agile than a horse the Ha Ha's were relatively small.

This is quite a good picture of the size of most ha-ha's - they are about the height of a person, so fairly hard work for a horse - but not impossible. It's also true that a horse can get stuck in them but the ditches are generally dry and so relatively safe:
http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.thegreenwichphantom.co.uk/uploaded_images/Ha-Ha-765308.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.thegreenwichphantom.co.uk/2009/05/funny-ha-ha.html&usg=__ExnnB15ASPec7ZlDCx21lWnXyR4=&h=1600&w=1200&sz=678&hl=en&start=26&sig2=kQEpEPxu8cR2pSSsmXEsNg&um=1&tbnid=X5MC-e7qd2rF6M:&tbnh=150&tbnw=113&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dha-ha%26ndsp%3D18%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1G1GGLQ_ENUK292%2 6sa%3DN%26start%3D18%26um%3D1&ei=n8B9SuivBoK7jAePy_TwAQ

Something I read, was that the Ha-Ha KEPT the animal population away from the house area.

So no paddock or pasture is normally above the bank area. No erosion from animal hooves along that sharp bank edging, and no visible fences wanted.


As you point out they were originally designed to be used only 'one way'. So the horse/cow/deer would be on the sloping side and the garden would have the sheer drop. That way it looked quite intimidating/impossible/ to the animal. This is the best (if slightly comical) illustration I could find: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=bZXqNalbJA0C&pg=PA154&lpg=PA154&dq=parkland+ha-ha+design&source=bl&ots=0xZ8Y-XiH1&sig=lysQVhCu41slxjhHI_i6DzyRlzs&hl=en&ei=-8J9SqD_MpXVjAei-KzzAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7#v=onepage&q=&f=false

However some estates, particularly Holkham Hall has not only the 'conventional' Ha-Ha's near the house but they also divide up the deer park largely with Ha-Ha's which are very old. These HaHa's need to be invisible and keep out deer and they have a much tighter version of this: http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5f/Double-sided_ha-ha,_Melford_Hall,_Suffolk.JPG&imgrefurl=http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Double-sided_ha-ha,_Melford_Hall,_Suffolk.JPG&usg=__w8vc-UPLbpkEq59EproqxEogfjQ=&h=1920&w=2560&sz=2311&hl=en&start=3&sig2=TTUxg4WO0BTVa6fDKLDCHg&um=1&tbnid=NCoCUntbvaLxgM:&tbnh=113&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dha-ha%26ndsp%3D18%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1G1GGLQ_ENUK292%2 6sa%3DN%26um%3D1&ei=cMF9SuCCDd-SjAejxL3xAQ

(imagine no grass walkway and a wooden spiked fence instead - so it is a deep grassy ditch with a 6' high fence running through it). Unfortunately I can't find an example on Google.

[Foxtrot's]

Thanks for those lovely images - makes me homesick. The house, or area where animals are not wanted is on the side of the ha-ha that has the vertical drop, not the slope, so that the view is not interrupted by the wall.
Wonder how many party drunks have strayed from the house and fallen over the ha-ha
over the years, or kids.

[susanne]

Setup of OP sounds like it would work for a Ha-Ha, but you are defeating the reason for having it, with pasture above the bank. Even fenced, erosion will be a problem with animals above on the bank edge.


OP here...

I'm sorry if I was as clear as mud...
While I am thinking of pastures above and below the house, the ha-ha would only be for the lower pasture, so the would not defeat the purpose. The drop-off of the ha-ha would be below the driveway; the lower pasture would then be below the bank.

I realize that many of the original owners of ha-has used it to keep their gardens separate from the pastures. I would be using it to hide the fence, not the horses or the manure (which I regularly bring into the garden anyway).

I just thought of one problem, specifically related to minis...If the horses graze right against the bank, I'd look out the window, not be able to see them and then panic...

My first glimpse of a ha-ha was in an English garden book. The ha-ha separate lawn from sheep pasture, but the effect was that the sheep were freely grazing upon the lawn.

I suppose it could add an exciting element to any parties we host -- watch that first step, folks...it's a killer!

Eventaholic, I like the way you think...assuming we can come along!

[vineyridge]

Raby Castle in the North of England has a lovely huge ha-ha which they use or used to use for deer.

I think it's a great idea, and you really wouldn't even need a slope. You could just excavate a huge ditch with a fence in the bottom. You'd have to make sure the sides were appropriately sloping and far apart. As I recall, that's how Raby's works.

[Romany]

Trouble with a haha is that it has to be really well-built and maintained (ie expensive), otherwise animals will figure out how to clamber into it.

Or fall into it.

But apart from that, they are nice, aren't they!