Speak to me of hoof fungus

[pAin't_Misbehavin']

Suppose you knew of a mare who was pretty much your dream horse, and she was going for, well, let's just say for less than RR once shelled out for a pony of our acquaintance.:winkgrin: What's the catch? Hoof fungus.:( Mare contracted it after moving here from a different climate and running into some farriery and management issues.

Mare has has improved over the past couple of months, with good farriery and regular soaking, but is still not sound for cantering and jumping and must stay in the indoor where the footing is soft.

Her farrier, who is also my farrier, says he feel pretty strongly that she'll eventually come sound but it could take some more months and might require adjusting her diet and supplements in addition to soaking and regular trimming.

If I bought her for what the current owner is asking (just enough to reimburse her expenses for teeth, shots, and farriery) and she came sound in six months? I'd have made out like a bandit. If she didn't, well, I could really use someone to come to my farm and eat some grass since Bram, my old gentleman, has to be kept on a dry lot now.:) And I've never been able to shake my general distrust of goats. :D

But what are the odds she will/won't get over foot fungus? I have little experience with it - Quanah occasionally gets a mild case that doesn't amount to much. This mare's hooves are kind of crumbly around the edges and one of her fore feet seems painful. If I were diligent about soaking and trimming and looked into boosting her immune system - she'd eventually get over it, right? Or no?

[ChocoMare]

Totally doable with diligent care.

Eliminate as much sugar as humanly possible from her diet. You don't want to offer the Yeasties anything more at the Fungus Buffet. That includes grass, maybe even soaking hay.

Keep up on the trim.... tweak every 2 - 3 weeks as needed.

Supplement with good loose minerals balanced for your area.

Spray every day with Athelete's Foot Fungus Spray (I alternated one week of Tolnaftate and one week of Miconazole) and then poofs of Gold Bond Medicated Powder.

I also found LifeData's Hoof Antiseptic to be a very good tool to keep in the Fungus Arsenal.

[pAin't_Misbehavin']

Thanks! :) So did you soak at all, or just do the spray/Gold Bond powder? And what kind of feed did you use? She's on, I believe, Horseman's Edge 10% pellets. Farrier suggested switching her to whole oats. What do you think?

She'd have to stay on grass, unfortunately, as my RS doesn't have any other kind of turnout. And I need her at my RS so I can have lessons on her. She's a step up from the beginner-type horses I've been riding, but very kind and sane. Still I need help finding all those new gears! :)

[Foxhound]

There's also a product called CleanTrax (which I may have misspelled). My vet/podiatrist uses it on her problem fungus cases.

[ChocoMare]

I wouldn't do oats. Too much starch which equals sugar. Would rather see plain/molasses-free soaked beet pulp and minerals or add a low NSC ration balancer like EquiPride or Linpro. If more calories are needed to maintain weight, something like Cool Calories and/or rice bran.

If the grass can't be eliminated, then consider a muzzle to keep grazing down to a slow pace.

I don't like to oversoak hooves. In the acute phase, perhaps once or twice a week for 4 weeks you may want to soak in Organic Apple Cider Vinegar for about 15 minutes. Then dry it completely--use a blow dryer if necessary. Then spray with athlete's foot spray / powder, etc.

EDITED TO ADD: If it is very severe, I'll ditto Foxhound on a CleanTrax or White Lightening treatment to start off with.

[pAin't_Misbehavin']

Hmmm. She's been treated with Clean Trax already - her owner has been soaking her regularly for the past couple months with disinfectant, and I know she's also done a Clean Trax soak at least once.

Do you suppose it's time to stop soaking, then?

[ChocoMare]

Yup, I'd stop soaking.

Hmmmm, would love to see pics of these feets. If you can get 'em, feel free to PM them to me.

[LMH]

I would be suspicious if it is a fungus if Cleantrax didn't wipe it out?

I would start questioning whether the hoof form is creating some of the issues.

[dwblover]

I really thing it's time to keep the hoof dry and stop soaking. Fungus loves a nice, moist area to reproduce. Her hooves need more air and less water. Gold Bond medicated powder can really work wonders. You may want to have your vet take a quick look at that hoof as well before you purchase.

[cloudyandcallie]

Call Dr. Sam (Tetterton) and pay him to xray and to look at the hooves.
If it is anaerobic bacteria he will tell you what you need to do to get the hooves in shape. Takes about a year and may require some resectioning of the dead tissue in the hoof wall.
Iodine is just as good as the expensive treatments.

If it is thrush, then you want to make sure that is hasn't "eaten up" way into the hoof.

Xrays and a good vet are essential. Dr. Sam or John Malark. I've not used Shambley but everyone says he is good too.

I wish people weren't so afraid of DEA, then we could get our iodine crystals with ease and use them and turpentine to cure thrush as we used to do.

[pAin't_Misbehavin']

I'll be glad to post pics, as soon as I get some. Home today with an abscessed tooth.:( But I'd appreciate y'all taking a look at pictures.

I don't know, actually, if she still has the fungus or not. When she had it, it made the hoof she had all crumbly. Which I guess has to grow out now and be trimmed off? Her feet look much better but are still in the process of growing out. There's only one foot now that seems to cause her discomfort.

Is it possible the fungus caused lasting damage?

[cloudyandcallie]

I'll be glad to post pics, as soon as I get some. Home today with an abscessed tooth.:( But I'd appreciate y'all taking a look at pictures.

I don't know, actually, if she still has the fungus or not. When she had it, it made the hoof she had all crumbly. Which I guess has to grow out now and be trimmed off? Her feet look much better but are still in the process of growing out. There's only one foot now that seems to cause her discomfort.

Is it possible the fungus caused lasting damage?

Yes. I have heard but have not seen that thrush if not treated for a long time, can "eat up" the inside of the hoof causing permanent damage. My farriers and vets have said so. The question is what are you dealing with, thrush or anaerobic bacteria up in the hoof wall aka white line disease.
Which is why you want xrays and a very good vet. Normally you just rehab for a year. The shelly hooves will be cut off, you'll be paying farrier bills and shoeing all to get a good hoof. So hire a great vet and get his opinion. I don't know any farriers up there, but both John Malark and Dr. Sam are terrific and will find out if it's something you can fix, or something that has caused permanent damage.

[pAin't_Misbehavin']

She has a performance barefoot trimmer now, and since she's improved under his care, I think I'd stay with him. In fact, the hooves of the RS horses look so good I hired him to do my horses.:)

Farrier seems sure it's a fungus, not bacteria. Fungi, of course, are aerobic, so one doesn't treat by exposing them to air as one would with anaerobic bacteria. How does the farrier know it's a fungus and not anaerobic bacteria? I dunno. I'm still trying to learn all this stuff. But I'll certainly ask him - thanks for bringing up that point.:)

[rcloisonne]

How does the farrier know it's a fungus and not anaerobic bacteria? I dunno.
Neither does he unless he has microscopes and culture medium in his eyeballs. The majority of hoof infections are caused by anaerobes. If your farrier is advising you to continually soak his feet, seriously consider looking around for another. Both bacteria and fungi thrive in dark, warm, moist conditions. Get a competent vet out for proper diagnostics.

[pAin't_Misbehavin']

Get a competent vet out for proper diagnostics.

Present owner had a vet out recently. I don't know what if any diagnostics the vet did, but I'll certainly ask.:)

[cloudyandcallie]

Neither does he unless he has microscopes and culture medium in his eyeballs. The majority of hoof infections are caused by anaerobes. If your farrier is advising you to continually soak his feet, seriously consider looking around for another. Both bacteria and fungi thrive in dark, warm, moist conditions. Get a competent vet out for proper diagnostics.

Right. I've had fungi and I've had anaerobic bacteria in hooves and there's a great difference.
There are 2 great vets in SC who can tell OP what the problem is, and what the cure is (or isn't) and how long. There's a farrier down here who is as good as any vet because he's been doing it for so long he is called in by vets to help diagnose, but Gerald quit doing SC a while back.
Vet, xrays, culture, diagnosis.

[goeslikestink]

She has a performance barefoot trimmer now, and since she's improved under his care, I think I'd stay with him. In fact, the hooves of the RS horses look so good I hired him to do my horses.:)

Farrier seems sure it's a fungus, not bacteria. Fungi, of course, are aerobic, so one doesn't treat by exposing them to air as one would with anaerobic bacteria. How does the farrier know it's a fungus and not anaerobic bacteria? I dunno. I'm still trying to learn all this stuff. But I'll certainly ask him - thanks for bringing up that point.:)

you need a vet and a qualified farrier go here on www.horseshoes.com
you need rads as you dont kow whats going on qualified farriers are the only proffessional help along with vets that can sort this out properly stop the soaking and get a vet out now and a qualified farrier

[LMH]

you need a vet and a qualified farrier go here on www.horseshoes.com
you need rads as you dont kow whats going on qualified farriers are the only proffessional help along with vets that can sort this out properly stop the soaking and get a vet out now and a qualified farrier

or a qualified trimmer.:)

[goeslikestink]

or a qualified trimmer.:)

i do not wish to disrespect you but to me as here in uk only qualified farriers can attend to the lower limbs apart from a vet
as both have the qualications to do so- a trimmer doesnt and most cant take party in a professional consultation unless invited by the owner

[pAin't_Misbehavin']

or a qualified trimmer.:)

:) Mine is an AANHCP practitioner. I don't know what that means, as I'm admittedly uneducated about farriery. I just checked his website for qualifications.
Anyway, I like the way the hooves look on the horses he trims. He does the horses at my RS, which gives me faith in him since my RI has been riding and training for many years.
But whatever. Thanks, y'all, you've given me lots to think about.:)

[goeslikestink]

:) Mine is an AANHCP practitioner. I don't know what that means, as I'm admittedly uneducated about farriery. I just checked his website for qualifications.
Anyway, I like the way the hooves look on the horses he trims. He does the horses at my RS, which gives me faith in him since my RI has been riding and training for many years.
But whatever. Thanks, y'all, you've given me lots to think about.:)

mate -- what ever she is it isnt working the hrose need help as no doubt hes in pain do the right thing by the horse and get him the proper proffessional help he needs
as i will tell you now leave it - and he will going into the ground permantly

[LMH]

i do not wish to disrespect you but to me as here in uk only qualified farriers can attend to the lower limbs apart from a vet
as both have the qualications to do so- a trimmer doesnt and most cant take party in a professional consultation unless invited by the owner

well that is not the case here.

[Tom Bloomer]

I hope this helps to clear up some of the confusion:

http://www.farrierscience.com/whiteln.htm

[pAin't_Misbehavin']

mate -- what ever she is it isnt working the hrose need help as no doubt hes in pain do the right thing by the horse and get him the proper proffessional help he needs
as i will tell you now leave it - and he will going into the ground permantly

gls - you realize she's not my horse, right?:) I am thinking of buying her, for a super knockdown price - but of course I would get the vet out for a PPE.

Based on the responses I've gotten here, I see that it might be more complicated than just fungus among us. Then again, it might not - but better to find out sooner than later. So I've decided to call my vets tomorrow and discuss her symptoms and what sorts of diagnostics they'd recommend running. Heck, her price is so low I could afford to do a pretty extensive PPE.

[Catersun]

good luck on the new equine what ever you decide!

[goeslikestink]

well that is not the case here.

i know .. as you often post good things

[goeslikestink]

gls - you realize she's not my horse, right?:) I am thinking of buying her, for a super knockdown price - but of course I would get the vet out for a PPE.

Based on the responses I've gotten here, I see that it might be more complicated than just fungus among us. Then again, it might not - but better to find out sooner than later. So I've decided to call my vets tomorrow and discuss her symptoms and what sorts of diagnostics they'd recommend running. Heck, her price is so low I could afford to do a pretty extensive PPE.

i know that, but what people are trying to tell you is that it might not be a simple fugus such as thrush but a secondary infection or canker or worse as cancer of the feet who knows
hence why her price is low - cheap is as cheap does in the end cheap can cost you a fortune

[LMH]

i know .. as you often post good things

well thank you gls...:)

just try to be a little understanding when you tank all trimmers in one keystroke some women may go a little 'chick ballistic' on you.

Some are woo woo whack jobs but others have invested a good bit of time and money to establish an educational foundation and gain worthwhile experience.

Some even work with vets just like farriers.;)

[starkissed]

my vet has a antifungal medication componded for her. It is the same drug as the human toenail fungus medication it.
It works so well. I use it in cracks up the hoof wall. Most of our horses have great feet and dont need it, but our WB gelding has dishy feet and will develop cracks from that, then fungus gets into the cracks and makes them worse.

If I put the medication in, the cracks grow out.

You could probably get a large batch of it and then just dip the horses feet in it for a while and re-use it. My vet sells it in small bottles- 8oz and I use a syrynge to get in in the cracks.

I cant think of the drug name right now, but I will repost after going to the barn

[magnolia73]

My horse had white line (see the article posted by Tom Bloomer). If that is what your horse has, I don't see how soaking it will help. It was very simple to treat- the farrier cut away the diseased portion under the vet's direction, disinfected for a month with iodine, which killed the fungus, then filled in the holes with acrylic.

My horse was never out of work or lame, though a bit tender before we found the trouble. I imagine we caught it quite early though. Now it is just a matter of time while the cut away wall grows out. She's fine to ride, even jump, and no worries about the foot getting wet now.

I'd say treating it has cost maybe $50 in extra farrier charges and iodine. I did know a woman who had a horse with a severe case that ended up in a stall for a year because basically they had to remove the whole wall.

[horselover61]

I have a horse I recently purchased with White Line, also. New farrier told me not to waste my money on the clean trax or white lightning.... to go to the store & just buy plain old VAGISIL as pretty much what White Line is is a yeast infection of the hoof. Says it clears it up every time.... My horse after 2 days the fever is already going down in the hoof and he's obviously had this WLD a LONG time as half his hoof wall had to be taken off as he has a HUGE hole in the toe..... I thought we bought a foundered horse!! Thank god it's something that's treatable...

[ivy62]

I have not read the entire thread so please forgive me if I repeat anything...
If it is a fungus the Clean Trax will work no doubt about that and a fungus needs to be dry not wet....When the clean trax was done did they follow the directions t the letter?ost people forget about the dry soak after the wet for 45 minutes for the fumes to penetrate..the problem with fungus is the spores. If you do not kill them it will keep coming back..

Can the material be cultured? and how do you know it is a fungus without knowing what it is? Does it have an odor?