Health Insurance for farmers?

[pintopiaffe]

So.. if I were to just bang around at a couple of pt jobs and try to ramp up the farm, how would I get health insurance?

:sigh:

[tarynls]

We pay through the nose for decent health insurance. For farrier boyfriend and myself, it's over $1100/month.

Interesting to note that boyfriend is 55, I am 31 and my premium is higher than his just because I'm female.

Of course, we are in uber-expensive NJ :)

Try calling a few insurance agents and see what you can find. You might be pleasantly surprised.

[Robin@DHH]

Many of my midwest farm neighbors send their wives to work just
for the health insurance benefit at the workplace. Others themselves
take jobs that include health insurance benefits and farm part-time.
Still others find organizations they can join to be part of a health
insurance group. The rest pay large premiums for small benefits.

Blue Cross/Anthem has a reasonable program (not cheap, but at
least decent benefits). Mega has rather limited benefits for the
price in my opinion.

Your best hope is something better will come out of Washington.

[poltroon]

The answer will depend on what state you're in.

[pintopiaffe]

Maine.

I don't think I qualify for the Dirigo program, though I might.

Is there anything through USEF? Farm Bureaus?

I thought I had another 3 weeks, found out it ended 7/31, which doesn't even give me a chance for COBRA because it's already ended.

[JSwan]

Yes, Farm Bureau offers health insurance - as poltroon noted it will vary state to state but generally Farm Bureau offers group coverage - here it's through BC/BS.

[MunchkinsMom]

I think AQHA members can also get health insurance through them somehow, I saw an add in one of their magazines the other day.

Ah, here you go:

AQHA Medical Benefits
AQHA Medical offers a selection of medical benefits for AQHA members and their families. The program includes options to fit any budget, worldwide coverage and extensive PPO networks. AQHA Medical also offers affordable accident medical, dental, vision, life, prescription drug, disability, long-term care and Medicare supplement plans.
For more information or to receive your free quote,
call (888) 213-9710 or click here (http://www.aqhamedical.com/).

[Bluey]

We get coverage thru our state cattleman's association and my premiums are $1018 a month.:eek:
Then, I am almost on medicare, so I think they take advantage those last few years, when they know you can't go anywhere else.

Ours is also with BC/BS and they are a very good company that most Drs respect and work with.

Be sure whatever company you pick is not a dead beat one that may have some Drs turn you down.

[Oakstable]

Anyone know if the insurance through the AQHA partner is guaranteed issue?

Insurance rates vary by age.

[deltawave]

It's probably worth a call to the employer you used to have insurance through and work through the COBRA laws again. They're pretty complicated. :dead:

http://www.cobrainsurance.com/COBRA_FAQ.htm

Unfortunately, $1000/month and up seems to be pretty "normal" for basic health insurance premiums, no matter where you look. :no:

[MunchkinsMom]

Anyone know if the insurance through the AQHA partner is guaranteed issue?

Insurance rates vary by age.

No clue, did the link have any of that information?

[poltroon]

You usually have 30 days after your primary insurance ends to elect COBRA. You can do it retroactively.

[Whitehedge Farm]

I get mine through Humana and its only $130/month. That is with a 5K Deductible and $35 co pays on office visits. Its not great but its not $1000 a month either!

[Oakstable]

Whitehedge
You must be pretty young to get that price.

[hb]

You usually have 30 days after your primary insurance ends to elect COBRA. You can do it retroactively.


you actually have up to 60 days to elect it, and then another 45 days to pay the intial premium. You MUST do it retroactive to the day after your final day covered. If your employer did not send you a timely COBRA notice you may be able to elect after the 60 days.

[JSwan]

Wanted to add - there are a lot of choices out there for health coverage. One option most people don't think of is obtaining catastrophic coverage.

Such a policy is going to depend a great deal upon your personal finances and your personal preference. Many of the high end premiums are for pretty standard coverage - that pays for pretty much everything. Some people may say - hey yeah. I never want to pay for anything except my co-pay and a 250$ deductible. And just like car insurance - the premiums reflect that choice.

Which may be a smart choice if you're the type that never keeps any money in the bank or uses the doctor a LOT.

But if you added up the cost of care you typically need each year (vaccines, physical exam, screenings requires for your age/sex), you may actually be paying a heck of a lot for coverage you never use. What you want is coverage in case the worst happens (bad illness, accident, long hospital stay)

What ruins a lot of people isn't necessarily health care costs. It's loss of income WHILE they're sick and can't work. If you earn 50K a year and THAT paycheck isn't coming in - now you're in a pickle. Folks who would suggest filing for social security - sorry. It is almost impossible to obtain disability under Social Security without retaining an attorney and digging in for a long fight.

(one issue people don't think of with this "nationalized" health care proposal is that the policy of federal agencies like the VA and SSA and MediCare is deny deny deny until you go away or die or you're rich enough to hire a good lawyer. That's how they cut costs)

Instead of focusing on the cost of obtaining health insurance, look at your overall financial picture. Does someone in good health and with decent savings need a policy designed for a family of 4 with one breadwinner? Or can you purchase catastrophic coverage only, then use the savings to purchase a disability policy that will pay your expenses if you become injured or ill?

Not suggesting you take that path - just think outside the box a little. We all have vastly different lives, and a "one size fits all" approach may not be the wisest choice.

Even the best health insurance policy won't keep you from losing your home if you can't pay your mortgage because you're disabled. See what I'm getting at?

[Bluey]

---"Even the best health insurance policy won't keep you from losing your home if you can't pay your mortgage because you're disabled. See what I'm getting at?"---

Neither would "free" government provided health care pay your mortgage.
You have to provide for that from savings and other types of insurance.

When borrowing thru the local Federal Land Bank, we had to carry some small insurance with them to cover a time of payments in case of need, specified by the insurance, like illness, loss of income or death.

[Blacklabs]

Depending on your state you can obtain a small group heath insurance plan. Many carrier have them for sole props and also for those that have 2 or more employees, partnerships, DBA, incorporated and LLC's. The rates can be very competitive and have higher deductible plans. The wellness package comes with most benefit plans and they cover annual physical,mammogram PST testing, and allergy injection and more without having to meet the deductible.

[deltawave]

Does someone in good health and with decent savings need a policy designed for a family of 4 with one breadwinner? Or can you purchase catastrophic coverage only, then use the savings to purchase a disability policy that will pay your expenses if you become injured or ill?Wise words, and this is a good option for someone who is generally healthy and not taking a bunch of medications or needing frequent monitoring for a chronic health problem. You can still go see a primary care doctor for a tetanus shot or a really bad infection--just ask if they will bill you directly and give you some sort of sense of what a basic office visit costs. Since doctors rarely get paid more than $25-40 for an office visit anyway (this is all most carriers will pay) you might be able to work out a reasonable fee if you are creative and willing to get out there and negotiate. :)

And there are urgent care clinics that operate on a cash basis for little emergencies, too--it's a little bit of a shock to some people to be faced with an "a la carte" system like this, but actually horse/dog people will recognize it as the veterinary clinic model. It really makes you sit up and think about each and every test and procedure. It's a good thing for doctors AND patients to be aware of. :yes:

[JSwan]

Good Lord someone agrees with me.

[LexInVA]

Good Lord someone agrees with me.

That's the laws of probability for ya. :lol:

[BasqueMom]

Make it two someones......

[JohnDeere]

You can still go see a primary care doctor for a tetanus shot or a really bad infection--just ask if they will bill you directly and give you some sort of sense of what a basic office visit costs. Since doctors rarely get paid more than $25-40 for an office visit anyway (this is all most carriers will pay) you might be able to work out a reasonable fee if you are creative and willing to get out there and negotiate. :)

I work for a GP. She has a cash discount for private pay and will do just about anythig general for ya except operate or deliver. ;)

Ive had her come to my house & put in stitches on my couch (stitch my child not my couch!) :eek: This is HR cause the horse caused the wound.

[LexInVA]

Make it two someones......

I hear the fabric of the space/time continuum beginning to rip...

[Bluey]

Depending on your state you can obtain a small group heath insurance plan. Many carrier have them for sole props and also for those that have 2 or more employees, partnerships, DBA, incorporated and LLC's. The rates can be very competitive and have higher deductible plans. The wellness package comes with most benefit plans and they cover annual physical,mammogram PST testing, and allergy injection and more without having to meet the deductible.

There is some talk that this new government health plan may be payback.
The big 8 unions are running out of money, costs of healthcare are so high, especially for pensioners.
Unions need a way out and this national health care plan is right out their alley, will save their bacon.
The call to union members to show at town hall meetings for it was a giveaway.;)
Always, when something doesn't make sense, look for who may be getting any benefit out of it and you may find some reasons, strange as some may appear.
Now, the same can be said from most any other than unions, that is heavily weighed by health care obligations.
If that pases, maybe everyone then can get health insurance, right?:)

I wonder why the AQHA has the insurance programs it does?
That is a puzzler also.:confused:

The one thru our state cattle association is a years old insurance program, when individual farmers/ranchers were having a hard time getting any insurance.

[Brio]

Bluey - I believe it was started with the AQHA Professional Horsemen in mind and just expanded for all members.

[pintopiaffe]

Very interesting info.

Truly, I go to the Dr. fairly rarely (most I've been is this past year, trying to figure out the Fibro stuff) BUT... the big but... I am diabetic.

It's Rx costs that will bankrupt me. I can go off them and go back to >7g carbs per meal... but I was a pretty miserable person back then. :uhoh:

[Bluey]

Bluey - I believe it was started with the AQHA Professional Horsemen in mind and just expanded for all members.

Someone told me long time ago that, to form an insurance group, the main big companies wanted to see a chance it grow to be at least 5000 members, eventually.

Don't know if that is still right today, but the way insurance went and people in the horse industry are, they do get hurt more than their share, but are too busy to otherwise use a doctor, we would be a good group to have, if you were a company.:)

Small families, self sufficient, many young members, independent, all that may make for cautious health care users.

[pintopiaffe]

Small families, self sufficient, many young members, independent, all that may make for cautious health care users.

And how many of us self diagnose (usually correctly) and self treat given the opportunity... By the time we *go*, we know, it IS a real problem, OTC stuff ISN'T working, and we are usually pretty darn good patients.

Well, except for the 'stall rest' part. That we usually suck at. :uhoh: :lol:

Truly, this is very useful stuff for me. I will start my hunt tomorrow...

[JSwan]

Pintopiaffe -

I haven't checked into premiums for that coverage I mentioned. Not for a few years - but last time I was checking out alternatives it was a LOT cheaper than typical coverage.

I understand about the diabetes - it runs in my family and it is something that can nickle and dime you to death.

I'm currently pricing different options (prescription drug coverage) for a couple of family members - one of whom has diabetes. You're going to have a lot of options there that don't add up to the cost of a typical insurance policy.

There are a lot of variables so I'd not feel comfortable pointing you to a particular source of information or suggest a particular option.

But I think it's safe to suggest that if you approach this from the perspective of your insurance needs being part of your overall financial picture, you may find you have options you didn't even know existed.

Does that make sense? I think what you're saying is that you want to quit the rat race and live a less... conventional life? If you get your ducks in a row it may just be possible.

Especially if you are able to take advantage of group insurance offered by an equine or ag group (or any other group)... well... who knows? It may not be possible - but it may be. Never know until you explore and think creatively.

One of my favorite sayings is this. Live the life you have imagined.

Good luck. :)

[deltawave]

Henry David Thoreau. :)

[poltroon]

A couple of things to add to the calculation on the high deductible plans:

1. The deductible is per calendar year. So, that $10,000 deductible becomes $20,000 if you're hurt or sick in December.

2. Money you pay for insurance may be tax-deductible. Money you pay for actual care is not deductible until it exceeds 7.5% of your income.

3. The deductible may not be the limit of your liability. For example, a $10,000 deductible 30/70 plan might mean that you pay the first $10,000 plus 30% of all bills after that. A $100,000 accident (fairly common!) would put you on the hook for $10,000 + $27,000 = $37,000. Assuming your treatment only spans one calendar year.

4. Look out for low lifetime maximums. $1m sounds like a lot , but it isn't. Try for at least $10m.

5. Better to take a plan with a high deductible but then comprehensive coverage, so that no matter what the source of the bills are, they are covered. For example, hospital-only plans are very attractively priced, but if you get cancer, you could have $150k in bills a year and not ever be admitted to a hospital, because it is treated outpatient.

6. Watch out for affinity groups selling insurance. Usually their products are individual insurance, meaning that you can be denied for preexisting conditions and the like. If they cannot sell you one of those, they may try to sell you weird other products and represent them as an alternative to health insurance, like discount coupons or accident insurance. Even if you love your affinity group, the insurance is contracted out to someone who does not have your best interests at heart. They're not your HR department, they're hoping to make money off you.

7. Prescription drugs in particular can get pricey in a hurry. It's easy to miss the difference between a $20 copay and a $60 copay, but if you suddenly need 6 months worth of 4 prescriptions, that's $160 a month. When you consider the tax implications, a plan costing even up to $250 a month more may end up being the better deal for you.

I've always had the high deductible plans, but you still need to shop carefully beyond the price and do your best to understand what will and won't be covered before you commit to a monthly expense that's as much as your rent.

[Oakstable]

Ok, someone in Canada please compare what Poltroon described to what you guys have.

[JSwan]

Ok, someone in Canada please compare what Poltroon described to what you guys have.

Um - what poltroon is describing is somewhat unusual - it's not a common form of insurance in the US and I don't think it's remotely comparable to any other countries health care.

Besides- we're just trying to help the OP figure out if she can drop out of society and do the farm thing full time.

Does everything have to be politicized?

[poltroon]

Um - what poltroon is describing is somewhat unusual - it's not a common form of insurance in the US and I don't think it's remotely comparable to any other countries health care.

Besides- we're just trying to help the OP figure out if she can drop out of society and do the farm thing full time.

Does everything have to be politicized?

Actually I don't think it's uncommon at all. This is typical coverage for anyone in a small business or buying as an individual.

$10,000 is high, but change that number to $3,000 or if you're lucky $1,000 and you've got a very standard policy. The 30/70 type split still applies, for example, though it can also be 40/60 or 10/90. And the $1m or $2m lifetime limit is also common: for example, Christopher Reeve's insurance through SAG had a limit that low. Obviously, he blew right through it.

[JSwan]

I was looking into it as a small business owner but still didn't think of it as common. Compared to the general population, anyway.

The way I figure it it's very similar to auto insurance - some people want a high deductible and lower premiums, others want low or no deductible and are ok with high premiums. The law requires a basic amount (in my state I think it's still 25/50) but if you're smart you'll get high limits and a 2 million dollar umbrella.

Which not everyone can afford. I remember when I thought having one million in PIP was extreme - now they're recommending two million.

Then again - if my livestock got out and ran into a car filled with four people - one million in PIP may not be enough to pay the settlement or judgment.

I don't recall any health policy I've had that had more than a one million dollar limit - though all mine have been very generous overall. I also didn't pay much but "much" is pretty subjective.

I don't think that coverage is for everyone but for someone like the OP it could be. We'll certainly move to such a policy. Well....I guess all that is up in the air right now isn't it.

[poltroon]

The $1m limit is pretty easy to reach with a cancer or a bad accident, or perhaps two big incidents, a nasty childhood illness or congenital defect, etc, and after that you're completely uninsurable. You'd be looking at Medicaid after that, and you'd have to give up most of your assets. It's the kind of thing that most of us don't think about but the insurance companies certainly do. The good news is that finding a policy with a higher upper limit is usually straightforward and not necessarily going to add a lot of cost - you just need to know to look for it.

If you had a $1m judgement against you due to a lawsuit, you can protect some assets in bankruptcy. If you exceed the $1m cap on your health insurance it will suck your assets away until you hit age 65 and can qualify for Medicare. If the point of health insurance is to avoid financial calamity, it seems to me a high lifetime benefit is probably more valuable than a low deductible.

[JSwan]

Too true - another thing that a person should have is disability insurance - but it's horribly horribly expensive. I've been sidelined with injuries that meant I had to have help on the farm.

Medical bills weren't the problem. The problem was no income to pay the light bill - or to hire someone to do the farm work, pay the farrier, vet - that sort of thing.

I'm helping my neighbor out with his farm work while he's recovering from surgery. It's been months and he's still not able to do much. He doesn't have any medical bills - but he's not able to work. No paycheck, savings will eventually run out - and there is still feed to buy, light bill to pay.....

Anyone who has free disability insurance through their employer is really blessed. If the worst happens at least the breadwinner would have a check coming in - it's impossible to obtain social security benefits.

Folks would want to factor that into their insurance needs.

I also priced long term care insurance - what a racket. :rolleyes: Better to just stuff money in your mattress.

[Blacklabs]

Poltroon I work for health care company and all our plans are the one million limit but it's annual not lifetime. It resets evey year at renewal for each member. My competitors plans work the same.

Also diabetics supplies are separate from the drug rider and usually a lower co pay as carrier want one to purchase their supplies.Most of our plans are a $15 co pay. On drug riders if you use the mail order it normally waivers one of the co pay with a 3 month supply.

I realize each state is different but there's a lot of confusion how benefits are paid. Also on the higher deductible plans (HSA qualified) after the deductible is met coverage is usually a 90/10,80/20 or 100 coverage for in network coverage. The 70/30, 60/40 split is usually for out of network coverage.

[poltroon]

Poltroon I work for health care company and all our plans are the one million limit but it's annual not lifetime. It resets evey year at renewal for each member. My competitors plans work the same.

Also diabetics supplies are separate from the drug rider and usually a lower co pay as carrier want one to purchase their supplies.Most of our plans are a $15 co pay. On drug riders if you use the mail order it normally waivers one of the co pay with a 3 month supply.

I realize each state is different but there's a lot of confusion how benefits are paid. Also on the higher deductible plans (HSA qualified) after the deductible is met coverage is usually a 90/10,80/20 or 100 coverage for in network coverage. The 70/30, 60/40 split is usually for out of network coverage.

Blacklabs, health insurance in NY is very different from California. For example, you have guaranteed issue and we do not. But there are lots of other regulations about what must be covered or offered, and those all vary by state.

The individual catastrophic plans especially (in CA at least) tend to have options with lower paid splits, to try to get the cost down. That's fine, but it's very easy for a consumer to look at the sheet for those plans and never do the math to know what she's signed up for.

But here's my question about HSA plans: not all high deductible plans are HSA eligible (mine isn't), and for some reason plans that seem exactly alike except for the HSA eligibility are a few hundred dollars more a month. Do you know why that would be?

[Blacklabs]

But here's my question about HSA plans: not all high deductible plans are HSA eligible (mine isn't), and for some reason plans that seem exactly alike except for the HSA eligibility are a few hundred dollars more a month. Do you know why that would be?

Unsure if your drug rider is built into to your plan or do you have the option of adding a drug rider?


HSA qualfied plans that have a drug rider attached are less in price as the drug rider doesn't kick in until after the deductible is met. On non HSA plans the drug rider pays first dollar before deductible and therefore the higher cost.

We also have higher deductible plans with co insurance after deductible is meant that are EPO plans. Even though you would think they would be less in price they are not. The hybrid plans are the best price.

Also if you are cash paying patient you always want to negotiate with the provider as they never get paid full price from the health insurance companies, they get the negotiated price which is considerable less.Depending on the procedure they could take assignment of 50% less than the cash price.

[poltroon]

Unsure if your drug rider is built into to your plan or do you have the option of adding a drug rider?


HSA qualfied plans that have a drug rider attached are less in price as the drug rider doesn't kick in until after the deductible is met. On non HSA plans the drug rider pays first dollar before deductible and therefore the higher cost.

We also have higher deductible plans with co insurance after deductible is meant that are EPO plans. Even though you would think they would be less in price they are not. The hybrid plans are the best price.

Also if you are cash paying patient you always want to negotiate with the provider as they never get paid full price from the health insurance companies, they get the negotiated price which is considerable less.Depending on the procedure they could take assignment of 50% less than the cash price.

Shoot, you're losing me in acronym soup! EPO is a term I haven't encountered.

On my plan, drugs are paid from the first one, even if you haven't met the deductible. As I said, in my shopping, the similar HSA plan is MORE, even from the same company. I thought they were treating drugs the same, but I will look at that.

[BelladonnaLily]

About 8 years ago, we had an individual health insurance policy on my husband with Anthem, through Farm Bureau IIRC, for about $250/mo. He was early 30s, asthmatic, high cholestorol, but otherwise good health.

I keep seeing commercials about cinergy health? Know nothing about them but they claim to be affordable...worth looking into.

[magnolia73]

You might do well to sit with a financial planner. Mine also sells insurance, IRA's, investments etc., but he sat down, looked at my income and came up with a "priority" and helped work through some of what was worth paying for, and what was unneeded. One of our "goals" was to get me disability insurance, but unfortunately my income was cut by 25% this year. He also understands things like health insurance policy lingo.

A good one should be able to assess your situation and get you squared away on health benefits, retirement investing and insurance.

To find insurance, you can always google- health insurance/maine and they all have free quotes and the like to give you an idea of what you will pay. http://www.ehealthinsurance.com/ehi/Alliance?allid=Goo25151 They don't really make any recommendations. But keep in mind how much you use medical services. I hardly ever go to the doctor....so I have a high deductible and keep that money in a savings account that yields high interest- accessible but untouchable.

Also, if you are used to a good plan from your employer, what you can buy on your own is generally not so hot. LOL, my plan excludes a lot- don't plan on having childbirth paid for, and before you go in to see a doctor, call and get confirmation that the MD takes your plan...and the plan will pay the MD- yep, call both sides, get names. And find alternatives- I go to planned parenthood for BC/yearly exams- under $100 and great physicians. Also, look into things like Minute Clinics run by WalMart etc.

I will say- a few weeks back, a poster from NC said she had a hard time finding insurance as a horse trainer. You may need to be very persistant.

[poltroon]

About 8 years ago, we had an individual health insurance policy on my husband with Anthem, through Farm Bureau IIRC, for about $250/mo. He was early 30s, asthmatic, high cholestorol, but otherwise good health.

That's about what we paid 8 years ago too. It's more than doubled in 8 years.

[Tom King]

At 59 and 55 with one cancer survivor, ours is $860 a month for $5,000 each deductible and if we miss one payment we will never be able to get insurance again. When Pam had cancer with the $5,000 deductible, it cost us something over $30,000. Blue Cross.

[Oakstable]

Tom,
I don't know of any policies that have a $30K maximum out of pocket ceiling. So if you paid out $30K, how many years are you talking about for the cancer treatment?

[Mallard]

So.. if I were to just bang around at a couple of pt jobs and try to ramp up the farm, how would I get health insurance?

:sigh:

Move up here.

I have had a few HR injuries, including...
6 broken ribs/punctured lung. No wait in emerg. Lots of xrays.Hospitalized for 3 days with a chest tube. Sent home with tons of drugs.
Paid $25 for the ambulance ride.

Hairline fracture of pelvis. 30 minutes in waiting room in emerg. Lots of xrays. Sent home with tons of drugs.
Paid $20 for crutches.

5 years ago I had a mystery virus. Developed into Pneomonia. Went into Congestive heart failure. Kidneys shutting down. In ICU on a respirator for 3 days. Gazillion tests. Hospitalized for 10 days. Mega drugs. Had a pulmonary doctor for 3 months. Saw the kidney doctor for 6 months. Under the care of a Cardiologist for 18 months. Had a Echo cardiogram every 3 months.
Paid zero.

Hubby has Atrial Fibrillation...been hospitalized many times over the past 7 years. No wait in emerg. Put into Cardiac ICU. Tons of meds and tests. Under the care of a Cardiologist.
Paid zero.

My Mom was diagnosed with Colon cancer in March. Had surgery April 9th. In hospital for 1 week.
All free.

[JER]

What Mallard said.

(I work in EMS in the US but also live part of the year in BC. There's no question which system I prefer.)