Stall mats..ARGH! Questions...

[Char]

How do you maintain stalls that have mats in them? My horse's stall has recently had mats installed, and I HATE THEM!!!!

The stall is cleaned every morning after he is turned out, and he does not come in until supper time (about 7-8 pm). Every morning when I go out to turn him out, he is lying in a puddle of pee-soaked shavings. There is NO drainage whatsoever with these mats, because the are solid and inter-locking. He is bedded with approximately the same amount of shavings as before the mats were installed, when the flooring was simply dirt in his stall.

I HATE seeing him coated in his own urine from his head past his shoulder, but I'm really not sure what I can do about it?? Because of the total lack of drainage, no matter how heavily the stall is bedded, there is still a lot of wetness that has absolutely no where to go. The other horse in the barn, actually pees more than my horse, and it runs out into the aisle by morning! :eek:

How do you manage stalls with mats, do you have mats that are porous? Any and all advise on the matter would be GREATLY appreciated.

[BuddyRoo]

What kind of shavings are you using?

I used pelleted and never had urine puddles. The pelleted absorbs well.

Now the big fluffy square shavings? Terrible.

[Char]

Yes, it is the big fluffy pine shavings. They used to work so well, and now....not so much. I'm wondering, though, if changing bedding would alleviate the problem of very, VERY wet bedding?

I need to come up with a solution quickly, as once winter gets here, there's no way in HELL that my boy is going to spend the night in a wet stall that soaks him. I'll pull every damn mat out myself if I have to...

[BuddyRoo]

The reason it "worked" before was because the urine was soaking into the dirt.

Now you've got to use bedding that is more absorbent. The big "fluffy shavings" as I call 'em are great for comfort...not so absorbent though. If you are really committed to using those shavings though--and if he urinates in roughly the same area all the time--then you could try just putting down pelleted in the pee spot areas.

What I do is take a bag of the pelleted shavings, cut a slit in the bag, and stick the hose in and fill it up and let sit for 10 minutes. Then dump & fluff. In the winter, I use about 1/2 a bucket of water (I use what's in their water bucket as I'm dumping buckets anyway)

I never had issues even in the middle of cold MI winters.

[Char]

Thank you so much for the info, BuddyRoo. Yes, unfortunately the barn is committed to using these shavings, mostly because they get them for a very good price straight from a mill. I guess I'll have to start supplying my own bedding, the pellets at least, and see what I get.

[BuddyRoo]

oh, eek! It's not your barn but a boarding barn. Ahhh....whole different ball game when you don't have much control.

Well, it's especially hard with the geldings because they usually urinate right in the middle due to the plumbing setup. You might be able to get away with just throwing a bag down every few days.

But...since they just put the mats in, you're probably not the only one having this issue....have you talked to the BO?

[IFG]

Woody Pet absorbs the pee right away and clumps so that the horse stays dry. Shavings just don't absorb it, so with mats, it is tough.

Love the mats with Wood Pet.

[Char]

Well....it is and isn't a boarding barn. It's my parent's farm. My mother runs it. She thought that these mats were going to save SO MUCH $$$ in shavings, and her not have to do as much work.

I haven't said, "I told you so" yet, but I can feel that day coming when I show up with pelleted shavings in hand. Grrr....

Her gelding is the one that actually has the urine run right out of the stall and into the isle, not to mention that every shred of shavings in his stall is soaked, as well. I feel so sorry for him, but she spent a ton of money on these mats with the idea that she would not have to use hardly any shavings anymore, so for now, by god, that's the way she's doing things.

I only have so much say, because it isn't my barn, and my only costs are the shared cost of feed and bedding, plus my own farrier and vet bills.

By the looks of it, my bedding cost are about to DRAMATICALLY increase...:mad:

[talloaks]

I'd put a bag of sawdust in the middle to soak up the urine and cover it all with the fluffy shavings. I always complain to my hubby that I would rather use shavings but he says no, only sawdust. Since he is the stall cleaner he has to have his way--and he is very very good at his job!! Its like he strips each stall each day!!:lol:

[Gloria]

Of course you will need more beddings with mats than just plain old dirt floor, but your stalls won't stink to high heaven either, and you won't scoop out dirt along with your bedding which will require you to refill the big old hole later on either.

You only need beddings where the pee spots are and if there are sufficient bedding, the wet spot will remain below the surface so horses won't get soaked in urine even if he lays on it.

[BuddyRoo]

You mentioned that you guys get a great deal on your shavings right now...so maybe there won't be cost savings.

There was for me when I went to mats over the dirt + pelleted vs shavings on dirt.

I only had to remove poop and the pee spot and never really had to strip stalls. Also looked and smelled better.

I think at the end of the day it's often a personal preference thing...but after having it all manner of different ways, my preference is mats over dirt with pelleted shavings.

[Marimee2]

I put mats in my horses stall about 5 weeks ago and love them. His stall was very deep in the center where he pees and had some rocks that I didn't want him laying on. I leveled, added mats and started with 7 bags of fine shavings (not dust but not the big chips either) and I have added 2 bags per week so far (before I was going through 4 bags per week in the summer and 6 in the winter). I'm super happy with the mats so far - I am using less shavings. I do find that I have to keep pushing the sawdust into the center of the stall. What I'm most happy about is that the bedding that is in his stall is much cleaner than it was sitting on the dirt floor.
Maybe you could add a bag or two of the fine shavings/sawdust to the center of the stall? Is his stall heavily bedded? It sounds to me like you don't have enough shavings in his stall.

[LuvMyTB]

My horse is on leveled, interlocking mats with the fluffier pine shavings. He's never had a pee spot that hasn't soaked up. I'm thinking you aren't using enough shavings--or your gelding just really likes to lay in his pee.

[CatOnLap]

The problem the OP is haing is not the mats. its because you didn't level and grade the surface properly before installing the mats. The stall floor should slope slightly to wherever it is that your drains are located, so that pee runs off the mats into the drains. If you have no drains, then slope it with a high side near the aisle and the low side on the oputside, so the pee runs to the outside of the stall.

I used to hate dirt floors. My horse was never clean as he always lay in the mud created by the pee in the dirt. Since we have mats properly installed, there are no problems with that.

[mroades]

I hate mats...I have two stalls for the "diggers" that have mats, and they constantly require more work, more bedding than my sand floored stalls.

[fourmares]

You don't have to dump a whole bag of pelleted bedding in there all at once. I have a mare that gets one bucket full of pelleted shavings in her pee spot everyday. Without it she has a puddle. Start with a bucket and add more if necessary.

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

I agree, if the floor was leveled correctly then you can

1. Use more bedding (if you think the pine is bad try the cedar that TSC brought in local here--total crap)

2. Use pellets/sawdust/etc. just in the pee spots. You don't have to use a whole bag. This is what the BO does where I board. I personally don't like the pellets becuase they break down to dust, but I'm not the stall cleaner either. Of course, I also don't like that they cost more ;-)

One more idea: Could you drill some holes in the mats?

[Char]

Lots of awesome advise, THANK YOU for all who responded.

The floor of the stall was leveled before the mats were installed with limestone dust and a tamper. There are no drains, no slope. I've thought about drilling holes, but I'm sure my head would ROLL if I damaged them in any way.

The shavings that we have now are bagged - and seem to be 50/50 sawdust and large fluffy shavings. I'm going to see about trying out the pellet idea, and see what that gets me.

For sure, there needs to be more bedding in the damn stall, but the premise that the mats were purchased under was that LESS bedding would need to be used with the mats. I guess what I'm really up against is stuborness and a somewhat false assumption on the part of my mother - who is the barn owner. :no:

[Gloria]

For sure, there needs to be more bedding in the damn stall, but the premise that the mats were purchased under was that LESS bedding would need to be used with the mats. I guess what I'm really up against is stuborness and a somewhat false assumption on the part of my mother - who is the barn owner. :no:

Less bedding would be used with the mats than bare concrete floor...

[Tornado Run Farm]

Pellets down first, then shavings on top. Done it this way for years, and never had a problem.

Easy to clean, too. Just find the wet spot, scoop out with a shovel, add some pellets, pull the shavings back over - voila!

[thatmoody]

Yup, with the uber-messy stallions we do the pellets down first, then swift pick shavings, and they stay pretty clean. They are the freaking MESSIEST horses, too - they pee and poop a LOT because they're only out 4 hrs a day right now (one is a non-sweater so has to be out during the cool part of the day, but has to come in before dark because of mosquitoes). So his stall should be a mess, but isn't. But we do use a LOT of shavings.

Take heart, though - he had surgery last year, and was on straw, and you don't know misery till you've cleaned a stall with straw and mats. I put pellets down under his pee spots (since he's a stallion he pees territorially and it's easy to figure out where they'll be) and then just bedded the straw really thick over the top so he wouldn't get the pellets in the incision. I'd then scrape away the straw and remove the pellets and spread another bag when I cleaned the stall. Blech...

[monstrpony]

If you use pellets under shavings, do not soak them first. Just put dry pellets down in the wet spots, cover with shavings. They will absorb that much more, and with a good cover of shavings, the pellets are not a problem.

I've used just pellets over mats when my horses are on full turnout, and never soak them first. The urine does enough to fluff the pellets. But, my horses never sleep in their stalls. If they did, I'd use dry pellets under shavings.

Interlocking mats should still have enough space for the urine to drain through. Perhaps the issue is that what is under the mats doesn't drain well enough? I dug pits in the middle of my stalls, filled with gravel, then covered with screenings, leveled, and put down mats. Mine work well.

[foundationmare]

....what Monstrpony said!

[CatOnLap]

There are no drains, no slope. I've thought about drilling holes, but I'm sure my head would ROLL if I damaged them in any way.

Well, that's an unfortunate design flaw in your stalls. And too bad the person levelling and tamping did not crown or slope the floors. Its a PITA to have to lift the matts up and do it again, but that is what I would do.

Drilling holes will only cause the urine to pool under the matts and eventually it will smell badly, under the matts, and you won't be able to get at it without lifting them anyway. Not to mention your rolling head!

But other good suggestions have been offered to soak up the puddle. I find peat moss is exceptionally good for this, or fine sawdust rather than shavings. A bale of peatmoss can go a long way as you only have to put a shovel full down where the pee spot is and then shavings on top. Pelletted bedding- the same- it is just packed fine sawdust.

[Dinah-do]

I think horse owners have been given a load of baloney when told that mats mean less bedding. Mats came into use when concrete and wood floors were the norm. They were an alternate floor product not replacement for bedding or excuse for not enough bedding. Bedding means 6- 8" of cushion at least. Try lying down on mats yourself. Soft stall and comfort stall are close to the exception but you still need bedding and enough to keep your horse clean and dry. Good management still requires stalls to be picked when horses are in and some horse will require their stall to be cleaned twice a day no matter what kind of bedding or mats. That's life.

[minnie]

What a lot of people who are switching to mats to save bedding don't understand is that it doesn't mean that you only use a little bit of bedding, it means that you fully bed the stall but that there is less WASTED bedding. I absolutely hate going to barns that have stall mats and only use enough bedding to soak up the wet stuff. They smell to high heaven. I use sawdust and put a good 4-6 inch initial base in. It takes me 5 - 10 minutes per stall where it used to take me 20-30 and I use less than half the bedding. Most horses have 1 or 2 pee spots - I use the fork to pick out the manure and scrape the clean top shavings off the wet spot (which is usually in the bottom of the bedding and the horse is NEVER laying on pee) use a flat spade to scoop out the wet spot and pull the dry shavings to fill in the spot. I've gone from filling about 1 1/2 muck buckets pre-stall-mats to filling 1/2 - 2/3 muck bucket after shavings. I use bulk pine sawdust and only need 2 wheelbarrows added per week. The even more appreciated added benefit is that I have substantially less soiled bedding to have to haul away. At my age, that's a biggie!

[Tornado Run Farm]

Bingo! Agree with everyone else - the advantage of mats is less WASTED bedding not LESS bedding - which over time means less bedding purchased. It's faster to clean and stays fresh longer. Mats also prevents the hollow that's created in the middle of the stall with a dirt floor. Another advantage of mats is they can be hosed and disinfected after stripping - not to mention the elimination of most the ammonia odor.

I can't think of a single reason why someone wouldn't prefer matted stalls. Does the OP clean the stalls? Or does her mother? ;) (Sorry, had to ask...)