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mec0529
Aug. 4, 2009, 05:56 PM
I am looking for a mare supplement that is legal under the USEF rules for competition. Does anyone know of anything? So far everything I've looked at containes valerian, chamomile, or vervain, all of which are prohibited.

snarkey
Aug. 4, 2009, 06:25 PM
Regumate

mypaintwattie
Aug. 4, 2009, 06:38 PM
Mare Magic- Raspberry leaves. Helps regulate their cycle and has a calming effect. Seems to be working well on my girl, and you can get them in bulk for about $4 a pound! Otherwise, Depo or Regumate.

FriesianX
Aug. 4, 2009, 09:45 PM
Some of the vets around here are placing a marble in the uterus - it stops them from cycling for a while (tricks the body into thinking it is pregnant). Apparently no ill side effects - and no handling regumate (bleah).

Another thing that helps SOME mares is Vitamin B-12/tryptophan type supplements (like B-Calm). Some of those are valerian free...

InsideLeg2OutsideRein
Aug. 4, 2009, 10:13 PM
Ma Otherwise, Depo or Regumate.

I wouldn't exactly call these "supplements"?:confused:

mypaintwattie
Aug. 5, 2009, 01:25 AM
I wouldn't exactly call these "supplements"?:confused:

Which is why I suggested the raspberry leaf- former trainer suggested regumate, which for me would be a last resort, so instead I put her on mare magic, and like magic she is transforming into a different mare. Still pins the ears back (sorry Oliver), but is overall more peaceful. The Vitamin B supplements also seem to help some mares.

slc2
Aug. 5, 2009, 03:45 AM
A great mare supplement that is always legal is to recognize some mares are tough and get help from a trainer who can help you be fair and patient, yet still insist on some obedience.

monstrpony
Aug. 5, 2009, 08:57 AM
Tryptophan is legal? Go figure ...

quietann
Aug. 5, 2009, 09:30 AM
Tryptophan is legal? Go figure ...

It's an amino acid and it's in every protein-containing food, so one cannot test for it.

As much as I would like to agree with slc2, a good supplement can adjust things just enough for a horse and rider to get along. In a perfect world, every horse and rider would be matched perfectly, and great trainers would be a dime a dozen and still make a good living. But most of us have an ongoing trial-and-error process with our horses (and hopefully a progression towards fewer errors!)

My mare is "mare-ish" at times, but not to the point of needing a "mare" supplement. However, she's the original ADD Morgan, and a calming supplement helps keep her focus. I had her on Confidence Plus, which has valerian, and was somewhat dreading finding something "legal" to switch her to. SmartCalm Ultra is our thing now. It does not change her basic personality at all, but helps her stay focused.

I have heard great things about raspberry leaves for mares.

JWB
Aug. 5, 2009, 10:03 AM
I've used and LOVED rasberry leaves. They just sort of level out the emotional mess that my previous mare sometimes turned into....

I never used the Mare Magic. It was much cheaper for me to order them direct online (once I got a few others in the barn on them to combine shipping) or get them from the local herb shop. I just gave a healthy pinch every morning. Perfectly legal and the horses LOVED the taste of them.

mec0529
Aug. 5, 2009, 01:12 PM
In response to slc2, I have two excellent trainers, one of whom is Kathy Connelly. My mare is neither disobedient nor difficult; she's obviously experiencing some discomfort and back tightness around her heat cycles and ovulation. This is what I'm trying to help her with.

monstrpony
Aug. 5, 2009, 02:02 PM
It's an amino acid and it's in every protein-containing food, so one cannot test for it.

Well, you certainly couldn't zero-tolerance test for it, but it seems that an excess might show up. It can have a dramatic effect, I'm surprised this hasn't been addressed, but I don't compete so I don't follow the details.

mypaintwattie
Aug. 5, 2009, 02:43 PM
In response to slc2, I have two excellent trainers, one of whom is Kathy Connelly. My mare is neither disobedient nor difficult; she's obviously experiencing some discomfort and back tightness around her heat cycles and ovulation. This is what I'm trying to help her with.

In that case try the raspberry leaves. They help relieve some of the pain and other symptoms during their cycle. Since putting my girl on it I hardly notice when she comes into season- she was never one of those horrible mares, but like your's seemed uncomfortable around that 'time of the month', even more so than I could contribute to her ulcers. I started out on Mare Magic, then when I stared to see results I purchased in bulk. I got them from the Monteray Bay Spice Company in Santa Cruz, CA. 4 pounds cost about $25 with sales tax (since I live in CA) and shipping, and the shipping was pretty quick, considering I ordered at about 2am on a Saturday, I had them on the door Tuesday. Oh, and 4 pounds should last me a long time!!!!

slc2
Aug. 5, 2009, 04:49 PM
If her back is tight, you might consider what I did with one mare some years ago - 5 months of nothing but very forward, stretching, round, slightly deep, and leg yields and other suppling exercises. Lots of cantering.

Sometimes mare's backs get sore because they are out of shape, sometimes because they are held into too tight a position, sometimes because their conformation means they have to tighten their back to balance...some horses need raspberry leaves, other horses need more work, less work, some need to have time to cut loose and buck and play, or gallop, or more time outside of the ring...some just need mom to be a little more firm. A mare can be a strange creature at times...they challenge their rider to be a leader...and some mares have cystic ovaries, and need to be spayed.

ThreeFigs
Aug. 5, 2009, 11:43 PM
My vet did NOT recommend the marble trick when I asked what to do for my mare. There is always a chance of a uterine infection, and I guess they can be very nasty.

Raspberry leaves. If that doesn't work, Regumate.

Valentina_32926
Aug. 6, 2009, 01:16 PM
In response to slc2, I have two excellent trainers, one of whom is Kathy Connelly. My mare is neither disobedient nor difficult; she's obviously experiencing some discomfort and back tightness around her heat cycles and ovulation. This is what I'm trying to help her with.

Meco - I TOTALLY agree with you! My mare when she is comfortable is light forward and very attuned to the rider. When she goes through one of her cycles she is tense, and distracted. After watching how she goes from Jekyll to Hyde BOTH of my trainers told me (without speaking to each other or waiting for me to bring up the subject) that her 'problem time' is NOT a training issue but is definately a physical one. So getting ready to try mare magic first, if that doesn't work then it's on to Depo or an equivalent. You just can not train a horse in pain, all you can do is learn to ride through the issues. At this point I've been working W/T/C the past 3 weeks, Monday I could actually go back to working the changes without her loosing her mind.

When you get symptoms like ears pinned because you're brushing her with a SOFT brush, biting at the bit (her teeth were just done), pinned ears for the saddle PAD, looking at everything under the sun and not keeping her attention on the rider for more than 5 minutes at a time - this is NOT a training issue and is a physical issue. Calling everything a training issue is ignorance. We did look at training first, and it was dismissed since when it initially got really bad I put her in training with one of my trainers who got her starting to work after about - you got it - 3 weeks!

eks
Aug. 6, 2009, 05:09 PM
You can try Quiessence. I believe it is legal.

This is from the maker's website:

Horses that may benefit from Quiessence®:

• Horses with obesity problems
• Easy keepers on a hay only diet
• Horses whose main diet consists of preserved and processed feed stuff
• Horses grazing land known to be low in magnesium
• Horses grazing on acid soils
• Horses who have problems gaining or maintaining weight
• Horses prone to or at risk for founder
• Horses prone to cresty necks
• Horses with nerve conditions
• Nervous, tense horses that show an inability to learn and concentrate
• Horses with tight tense muscles that are slow to warm up and have sore or tight backs

Auburn
Aug. 6, 2009, 07:24 PM
I use Quiessence. My mare still cycles, but is able to focus on her work. She consistently scores in the low 30's (penalty point range) on her recognized eventing dressage tests.

There was a time when I ran out of the Quiessence. My mare became very moody. When I started back on it, the moodiness went away. She was able to focus on her work, again. Fox Den Equine will often have sales on it, too.

YankeeLawyer
Aug. 6, 2009, 09:47 PM
PS: Also, you can post this question on this web site: www.Equine-Reproduction.com on the "Breeding the Problem Mare" board. While this board is all about breeding, perhaps someone on there has also experience with mares who experience pain during ovulation and you might be able to get some additional help. To me, it is obvious from your description that she is having a physical pain problem and someone on this board might have some additional ideas for you.
.

I have a mare that gets very sore in her back for about two days every cycle. We first noticed it when she was 3 and starting under saddle. When we bred her we found out why - she does not ovulate until the follicle is over 60mm - usually at 65 or 67, which is large. Now, if I suspect any mare is experiencing discomfort related to her cycle or possible cysts, we ultrasound to see what is going on.

Horseymama
Aug. 7, 2009, 11:02 PM
I have used altrenogest, (which is a hormone you get from the vet) and it worked really well, like regumate but it is an IM shot that you give every 7 days. (So you don't have the pain of handling regumate every day). In the case of one of our mares, we gave it twice and then never again, (and it has taken away her mare-ish behavior completely), and in the case of another, we only give it when she goes to a show.

I have used the marble with success on another mare I used to have, but my vet did warn me before we did it that on some mares it can have no effect whatsoever.

I have never tried raspberry leaves, but that sounds interesting. Where do you get them for horses? How much do you give?

ThreeFigs
Aug. 7, 2009, 11:08 PM
Altrenogest, huh? I must file that away for future reference.

I bought mine from the local health food store. There are lots of places on line to order them, too. Or buy Mare Magic, but it's more expensive.

It's been a while since I've fed raspberry leaves. About a half cup per feeding? (AM & PM) Somebody help!

Cowgirl
Aug. 8, 2009, 02:25 AM
Not a half cup, Beasmom. The scoop that comes with Mare Magic is about a one ounce scoop and you pack it in, once a day. My mare doesn't really need it, but raspberry leaf prevents cramping and tension. I can't tell when my mare is in heat.

I get it from the health food store.

ThreeFigs
Aug. 8, 2009, 11:58 AM
Thanks! It's been years since I fed the stuff.