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Ginger
Aug. 4, 2009, 10:00 AM
Hi, not to de-rail the other pony thread, several people have said that Welsh cobs can be very high-spirited ("firey" was the way some have described it). Is this typical for the cobs? I have a Section B cross, and while he is very sensitive and has spirit, I would in no way describe him as hot or challenging for an older lower-level AA to ride. I am thinking of looking at a cob (and if you know me and know the pony I am thinking of and have any info, please share... :)). But if they tend to be "hot", he would be too much for me.

I know there are exceptions and one must look at the individual, but for those of you having first-hand experience with the cobs, I would appreciate your opinions.

Thanks!

butlerfamilyzoo
Aug. 4, 2009, 10:49 AM
I have a 5yr old cob that i LOVE... I dont know that i would call her firey... But EXTREMELY light with explosive movements... Though she does nothing stupid. My husband can stand on her back and hang all over her... I have taken her camping (trail riding bareback even with a mule cart behind us and she was only 3...), riding in large organized trail rides, bareback in big parades... I would never put a beginner on her because she is so light sided... I did recently put an intermediate rider on her, and of course, horse spooked (in place) rider did the vice grip calves thing, horse shot forward in the biggest trot she could, rider pulled back, horse stopped on a dime and threw rider forward, in which she did the vice grip again, horse shot forward... This process repeated a few times until of course horse just stopped and rider flew off.

This being a rider that i thought could handle it as i've seen her ride many times.

Teaching my mare to canter has been very rough. She starts out in this bolting/explosive canter... Its not ugly, but she cant get her body together, so its crazy hair raising pscyho. Thus, we are still showing Intro, and may be for another year!

My instructor loves her. I cant imagine riding any other type of horse. I dont like kick and spur, i dont like dead heads, i like spunk, i like flair, i like to show off my gorgeous cob and leave everyone wondering what she is... :)

They are lovely for dressage, but i will say there are some that are made for it and some that are not, and canter can be tough to learn. I have owned a lot of breeds from QHs to warmbloods, and i've never worked with something that tries so hard and gives 140% every ride that i'm not completely exhausted trying to keep it moving.

BUT, they are not a breed that i recommend to everyone...

exvet
Aug. 4, 2009, 10:51 AM
Well I am going to be blasted by the other welsh cob people; but, I think it's fair to say that I"ve had some experience with the breed. I currently own 7 and have had over 12 over the years either owned or leased. I do compete pretty heavily with them in dressage and have them from just backed to prix st. george. I do feel strongly that certain bloodlines have a tendency towards being more sensitive than others. They tend to have a very strong sense of self-preservation which ranges from "you can't make me" to "I'm out of here". They do not suffer fools well. If you develop a bond with a welsh cob they will die trying to give you what you want but they are very clever and at times anticipate what you want (even if you didn't want it). I adore the breed; however, am very vocal about the number I have had given to me for free that were "ruined" and destined for euthanasia due to improper handling. That being said, they are very athletic and if you can find one with a good canter can be very competitive in the dressage court. As for who you are looking at, feel free to PM me and I will share what information I can though cannot guarantee that I am familiar with the animal and if not will say so.

Ginger
Aug. 4, 2009, 11:56 AM
Thank you both. It sounds like the cobs are very different from the Section Bs, of which I have known several over the years.

Exvet, I will PM you tonight with what limited information I have about the bloodline. I appreciate your offer.

Sunsets
Aug. 4, 2009, 05:23 PM
A boarder at the barn I take lessons at has a Welsh Cob. He is really nice - forward and active, but not "explosive". The only expressions of discontent I've seen from him are the ocassional wring of the tail and head shake. And he's freaking adorable as well. :)

His owner is a bit on the timid side (she has a larger warmblood that she's never felt particularly comfortable on) and she just loves him, says he's her forever horse.

Equibrit
Aug. 4, 2009, 05:29 PM
They are just "goers" - they have an engine. It's what you want !

egontoast
Aug. 5, 2009, 06:08 AM
exvet should be a great help to you. She's doing wonderful stuff with hers.:)

TessaQ
Aug. 5, 2009, 09:51 AM
This thread was very helpful. I've been (half) joking about finding one for me next time I'm looking. Forward, energy is fine with me. They are adorable. Seen some great movers in the dressage ring.

Funny, after years of riding giant horses, I'm considering my first pony!

Thank you for the information!

Ginger
Aug. 5, 2009, 09:54 AM
Exvet is a great help! thanks all!

oldbag
Aug. 5, 2009, 10:18 AM
Welsh Cobs come in all shapes, sizes, temperaments and movement.

I love some, indifferant to some, hate others.

Not all have engines, some can be bloody hard work. Others total lunatics. Some just right.

It is VERY hard to find a good one which is for sale at a reasonable price.

exvet
Aug. 5, 2009, 10:43 AM
It is VERY hard to find a good one which is for sale at a reasonable price.

Ain't that the truth but not impossible. ;)

Good luck with your search Ginger! Let me know if you need anything else.

Ginger
Aug. 5, 2009, 01:13 PM
Thank you, Exvet :)

Thomas_1
Aug. 5, 2009, 01:24 PM
Firey :eek: ??? Hot spirited?!? :eek:

What a load of Welsh cobblers! :winkgrin:

I've had more than I can probably remember and have them now and in number. I've competed with them - albeit mainly driving but the ones I've got are all ride and drive and as such are used for riding lessons and by customers starting off doing the likes of hunting and cross country jumping. They're careful and workmanlike.

NO WAY on this planet should they be considered either fiery or hot spirited. Just the opposite.

They're easy to keep and manage. They take no exception to being out in a field all week and then being ridden just at weekends. They won't be all silly and hyper at all. They make brilliant all round riding and driving horses and are relatively easy to train.

If you're not up to the job they can be a little stubborn, stroppy or opinionated but firey or hot spirited... NO WAY! They are the sort of horse that will do an honest day's work but will never die for you. They are too busy looking after themselves. Now as far I'm concerned, that works for me!

When folks phone me and say they've a welsh cob needs backing or putting to harness then having accepted the work, I normally put the phone down and say "oh good, an easy one"

goeslikestink
Aug. 5, 2009, 01:44 PM
yeah-- agree with thomas 1
ihave had more welshes than anything esle to include x types

they are work horses and ponies and honest they are best all rounders any one can get as they are versitle can do anything from jumping to eventing to driving to showing
etc
i compete mine in mixed events - i have welsh A welsh b welsh c and welsh d
i lost due to old age =welsh x tb welsch sec c welsh x dales

i have had welsh xarabs welsh xconnies

as for hot - no they are not there careful and surefooted and also brave
they are very independant horses and ponies they hate being modidcoddled
and beleive me if your the type that goes ooh arh ump - or dont show
you have any authority these guys get that no very quicky -- they are as sharp minded
as a human - when we say mug -- they see that as soon as you walk through the door

they have the ability to go that extra mile when you want it or need it
they are honest careful jumpers and get you out of trouble when you make a mistake
they are are wise and easy to break in and do things with as they love to work and learn

goodpony
Aug. 5, 2009, 05:08 PM
if you can find one with a good canter can be very competitive in the dressage court.
Out of curiosity what sort of problems with the canter have you seen?

oldbag
Aug. 5, 2009, 05:54 PM
I've met quite a few hot Welsh Cobs. True most of them aren't. But some are.

And when they are - believe me they can be dangerous.

Thomas - it's annoying to be told I'm speaking cobblers. I am not.

I have never met a Welsh Cob with a difficult canter, but I can believe that some do have this. Although most can be trained to do a very nice canter, many do struggle to get their changes 'through.' It can be very hard to stop them changing late behind.

Ambrey
Aug. 5, 2009, 07:48 PM
I wonder whether the cobs in the US aren't a subset of all cobs and slightly different generally than the cobs in the UK? I am thinking that the hotter, more athletic cobs are those that are being imported?

It seems that in the UK there are more of the "workmanlike" cobs.

FWIW, I have really coveted a cob ever since first seeing exvet's photos 2 years ago. There is a cob in my training barn doing some lovely 2nd-3rd level work... and if there's one problem he does NOT have it's his canter, he's got a gorgeous canter with lots of jump!

I have a welsh x who can be fairly hot and I know the cob can be ornery as well, I think it's all part of the welsh experience ;)

butlerfamilyzoo
Aug. 5, 2009, 09:12 PM
I think the biggest problem with a cob and their canter is STARTING the canter. Mine will canter on the lunge no problem, but its flat. I see a HUGE canter in her out in the field, i know its in there... So when i ride her, i am presently keeping her in straight lines as much as possible to keep the "jump". But its hair raising. I think the biggest thing to keep in mind is that first and foremost these guys were bred to trot and be exceptional driving horses. Doesnt mean they are not riding horses, but by saying that, i mean they have FAB trots and the canter takes some work to learn. I believe a while back when i asked about cob people and the canter, Thomas mentioned he starts his out in the field, and i have to say, i think thats the key... Keep them out and in the open, and let them go! They just have to find themselves and little arenas dont get it done...

In starting my girl to canter, in the transition, i swear her butt shrinks 2' and we propell into the air. It just climbs... Which is fantastic... If it werent so hair raising! :) I wish i had someone i could trust to get it more solid, i've really lost a lot of my nerve after having a year off to have a baby. I trust that mare with my life and time again she has saved me. I have a bond with her like no other. She is my forever horse.

She really doesnt have a spook to her, maybe in place, and it takes something fairly wild to bring it out of her. She is SUPER light to ride. As in shift your hips for turns and lateral work, my legs never grip or bump her, i just position them and leave them lightly laying on her sides. I never have to get into her mouth, she is very steady.

She LOVES to hear she is a good girl and she'll give even more when you reward her.

Hot? No, she's not, but she's a BIG mover, and i can see how some people would see that as hot and fiery.

And like i said, i dont really recommend them for everyone. If you ride heavy, thump around, and need something really forgiving, dont get a cob. My experience with the US cobs is that most cant handle that until they are in their teens, not all of course, but most.

I think the biggest issue with riding them... You may be riding a pony... But you FEEL like you are riding 17h of energy and impulsion like you wouldnt believe. The feeling is incredible.

exvet
Aug. 6, 2009, 12:01 AM
I have seen and had welsh cobs who fell into one of 4 "types" - not unlike most breeds :winkgrin: either they a) didn't prefer to canter, ie, trot is their number one gait or b)they will canter readily but it's not with a nice bascule/jump that one desires for dressage (c) or the most difficult ones to work with are those that do not step up underneath themselves. I liken it to the front end being in Arizona while the back half is somewhere in California trying to catch up. It's against the breed standard but there are many of that type that exist. Then there are others (d) that possess a fantastic canter.

Like any breed you're looking at with the desire to compete in dressage you need to assess their gaits and don't get hung up or fooled by an extravagant trot. Too many think "of course a welsh cob can 'do dressage' just look at that trot".......well.....imo.....look at the hind end NOT the trot. IF they track up well with their hind end then there is no reason they can't do it but if they do not then those are the ones that will not get the best scores on gaits and usually have most of their problems with the canter and all movements involving the canter.

I think too when considering a native bred pony, like the welsh cob, one must realize that there is a difference in the level of horsemanship found here with say the average dressage rider as compared to many, at least those who I know personally, across the pond. I'm going to go ahead and say it, I think common sense has left the gene pool and horsemanship, true all rounded horsemanship, is dead. I find that there are far too many who are backed off or surprised by how quickly a welsh cob can and will react if there is no leader already established ;) I agree with butlerfamilyzoo in that many misinterpret a welsh cob who doesn't suffer fools well or a welsh cob that is powerful, anticipating and trying to deliver what it thinks the rider wants as hot and fiery.

Here is a perfect example. I acquired Gallod Morgan Henry for free because he was labled crazy, dangerous and unpredictable. He learned to set back, rear and buck when anyone attempted to tack him up and/or mount him and/or use lower leg. Well here is 10 months down the road after he came to me. Is he easy? No. He's learned very well from those that came before me which tricks in his bag were most effective and every time I introduce something new or turn up the demands a notch the tricks are quick to come out and be retried. However, I am able and do ride him regularly and though he can be quite the stinker he really wants to be and is a nice section C with a not too shabby canter:cool:

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o253/ldarling_photos/August%202009/2009-08-021482.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o253/ldarling_photos/August%202009/2009-08-021447.jpg

tempichange
Aug. 6, 2009, 12:06 AM
\
Here is a perfect example. I acquired Gallod Morgan Henry for free because he was labled crazy, dangerous and unpredictable. He learned to set back, rear and buck when anyone attempted to tack him up and/or mount him and/or use lower leg. Well here is 10 months down the road after he came to me. Is he easy? No. He's learned very well from those that came before me which tricks in his bag were most effective and every time I introduce something new or turn up the demands a notch the tricks are quick to come out and be retried. However, I am able and do ride him regularly and though he can be quite the stinker he really wants to be and is a nice section C with a not too shabby canter:cool:


This reminds me of my mare, who was labeled untrainable, dangerous and hot by her prior owner(s). The mare was indeed hot (couldn't put my lower leg on) and quick. But not if you rode correctly.

J-Lu
Aug. 6, 2009, 01:01 AM
Nancy Hintz of Yellow Rose Dressage in TX is a very successful dressage rider and has ridden many Welsh Cobs for a TX breeder. She has trained some of these cobs to FEI dressage and trains some young riders on them (in a least one case, the same horse does FEI and totes around a training level rider in the show ring). She might also be a good person to contact about bloodlines...at the least she can refer you to the breeder of these cobs who can also probably give you information.

mobilehrs
Aug. 6, 2009, 09:14 AM
I LOVE mine-I got hera as one of my broodmares, and all the mares get brought along between babies. She is now 12, showing PSG, got me my bronze and one more score, my silver, si not finished, has had 4 premium babies, and makes me wish I was 5'tall!!!!!!! I've never had so much fun in my life riding! SOOOO smart and work ethic that you can only dream about!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLvAbTOVnIM

tempichange
Aug. 6, 2009, 10:05 AM
I LOVE mine-I got hera as one of my broodmares, and all the mares get brought along between babies. She is now 12, showing PSG, got me my bronze and one more score, my silver, si not finished, has had 4 premium babies, and makes me wish I was 5'tall!!!!!!! I've never had so much fun in my life riding! SOOOO smart and work ethic that you can only dream about!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLvAbTOVnIM

I so want her.

Lyss
Aug. 6, 2009, 11:00 AM
I LOVE mine-I got hera as one of my broodmares, and all the mares get brought along between babies. She is now 12, showing PSG, got me my bronze and one more score, my silver, si not finished, has had 4 premium babies, and makes me wish I was 5'tall!!!!!!! I've never had so much fun in my life riding! SOOOO smart and work ethic that you can only dream about!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLvAbTOVnIM

I want her too!

I'm just coming back to Welsh myself in my breeding program, having had in the past both the sensitive individuals and the do it all with a smile kind. As in all breeds, there are those more suited for dressage then others, but I have to bring up North Forks Cardi who is showing I1 at eight years old - I did get to meet him at a show, watched him work and show through several days - what a fantastic temperament and work ethic - just looked to be the absolute pleasure and joy to show!

Here's a video of his I1 freestyle:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YkHUPN23XM

Tamara in TN
Aug. 6, 2009, 11:08 AM
at the least she can refer you to the breeder of these cobs who can also probably give you information.

she rides the sons and daughters of Mary Alice Williams' Kentchurch Chime...I have owned two of his daus and helped breed a gdau on a foal share out of one of my stallions...

the stud is Madoc Welsh in Texas

best

Tamara in TN
Aug. 6, 2009, 11:14 AM
[QUOTE=exvet;4287264]IF they track up well with their hind end then there is no reason they can't do it but if they do not then those are the ones that will not get the best scores on gaits and usually have most of their problems with the canter and all movements involving the canter.


correct ! if the hind leg at the trot does not at least "attempt" to make the middle of the ribcage above it...well you're gonna be sad come cantering around time;)

best

Daventry
Aug. 6, 2009, 11:17 AM
Funny to get so many variations in opinions. I fell in love with the Cobs about 4 years ago when I was learner judging in the US. They are by far the nicest, funnest breed I've ever ridden. I currently ride and show a Section D Cob stallion named Goldhills Brandysnap www.goldhillsbrandysnap.com (http://www.goldhillsbrandysnap.com) I showed him in Training Level dressage all last year, regularly beating the warmbloods! This year, we're concentrating more on the hunter/jumper circuit.

It is true that there are some Welsh bloodlines more desired than others. Some lines run a bit hot, other lines don't. Some of them can tend to start out with an awkward canter but often finish with having one of the nicest canters you'll ever ride.

All of the Cobs we've had in have been brave no spook, 110% work ethic and tried their hardest to do whatever was asked of them - Brandysnap is no exception. All the Cobs that we've had in have been anything but hot.

After riding warmbloods for 20 years, I'll gladly keep Goldhills Brandysnap for showing now! :yes:

mobilehrs
Aug. 6, 2009, 03:15 PM
She is for sale now-it's killing me-this will be the hardest sale I've ever done! But I know I'm big on her (5'8"0 and I don't want to hurt her as she ages. SHe's only 12 and has years left that she could teach someone and she's not finished herself!! Please help me find a tiny lady that want to learn and have fun!!! I really wish I was 5' tall!!!

goodpony
Aug. 6, 2009, 03:30 PM
Hi Exvet, thanks for the description.:)

From "the judges box" Biomechanics of the Gaits USDF L Program Teachings Part 2

Fault: lack of elasticity.

Symptoms:
“boinging” up and down at the expense
of reach and ground-covering; sprawling
(even if reaching); rolling over the front
legs (lacking push against the ground to
produce upward spring in trot and canter;
lack of involvement of the sling muscles);
“earthbound” trot and canter; rigidity
and constraint and tightness (sustained
contraction) in the musculature.

Fault: incorrect trajectory.
Symptoms:
incorrect direction of reach or thrust (aerial
view); toe-flicking; “snatchy” knees
and hocks (“trappy” action, like the
movement of a Hackney) at the expense
of reach; “daisy cutting,” “cake walking,”
other forms of exaggerated or artificial
movement (profile view).

Raison d'etre
Aug. 6, 2009, 03:57 PM
I have a welsh cob cross, and Ginger's description pretty much fits her perfectly. I love riding her because she always makes things interesting. She's 23 now and I just wish I had gotten her before she was already in her late teens and pretty much set in her ways.

Mobilehrs: I'm 5'1" - you know, just in case you need to send your gorgeous girl somewhere... I was looking for another pony when it came time to retire mine, but I just couldn't find any that were the quality I wanted. Where were you two years ago? Ended up with a german warmblood that I love (who's 15.2). Good luck finding the perfect home for your girl.

Ambrey
Aug. 6, 2009, 04:36 PM
She is for sale now-it's killing me-this will be the hardest sale I've ever done! But I know I'm big on her (5'8"0 and I don't want to hurt her as she ages. SHe's only 12 and has years left that she could teach someone and she's not finished herself!! Please help me find a tiny lady that want to learn and have fun!!! I really wish I was 5' tall!!!

LOL, I really wish I could afford a pony like that for my daughter! Ah, well, you know what they say... if wishes were horses (or ponies!).

mobilehrs
Aug. 6, 2009, 06:17 PM
I'm in FL. Wish I had meet you earlier, but sounds like you got a great size! If you ever want a side project....:)

rivenoak
Aug. 6, 2009, 08:25 PM
exvet should be a great help to you. She's doing wonderful stuff with hers.:)

That's the truth!

Exvet, it was so nice to finally meet you in person this summer.

exvet
Aug. 6, 2009, 11:25 PM
Hey there rivenoak! It was nice to finally meet you in person too.

Tamara, I got your PM I will post your pics as soon as I can. Family is out of town so have to get all the chores done and then have to get back to work to put out a fire or two :no:


Daventry I don't think there are really all that many opinions. I think we can all agree that a good welsh cob is to die for. I'm extremely happy with mine; but, I do know first hand what can happen when a welsh cob (even a good one) gets into the wrong hands. I'm an amateur who works full time, has a family and obviously more than a few things on my plate yet I have been able to take one of mine from a 2 year old to Prix St. George. I will hand him off to my daughter once she's out of her back brace and given the OK from her Dr. to ride again. I feel he's more valuable as a schoolmaster for her than to take him any further up the levels because he is a welsh cob not built for the job but oh so willing to give it his best. Yet, having said that, I also had someone get on him once when he was 4, in three strides of this professional trying to show me how it should be done, he reared, bucked and she stopped and got off telling me I would have to fix him myself :eek: Guess I did because he has shelves full of awards and trophies. I am always making sure though that people who think they are interested thoroughly research the breed and the individual they are interested in because I literally could have 4 more for free but I simply don't have the room. Of course they are all geldings and I am in the market for a mare; but, that's the way it always seems to work ;)

columbus
Aug. 7, 2009, 02:36 AM
I have a Sect D Welsh Cob 2 yo filly. She is certain her pooo does NOT stink. She has to take the opposite side of EVERY argument. Food rules. She IS a rascal. Incredibly cute. Very funny and VERY VERY smart. I have a herd of Irish Draughts and as a bunch they are above average intelligence for horses but they don't have the smarts of PonyCob. She ALWAYS has her undies in a bunch because the Draughts lead not the PonyCob...SMART should lead not BIG!!!

PonyCob has munch marks on her butt because she will not back down or move out of the way when the Queen of All Horses says move...now. She is not stupid and if Lily is serious and shows PonyCob a foot PonyCob will fly out of range but she has EARNED every munch mark she has. If the breeds were anywhere NEAR the same size PonyCob would rule but ultimately the Irish Draughts just shove her aside like she is not there. Her persistance does pay off in one or two extra mouthsful of pellets however and that may be the next delema...how do you keep the weight off a Cob and they look to be the insulin resistant type even at two.

She has a bit of knee action in her movement but I agree I can't imagine canter being at all difficult. I expect them to be horses who do not suffer fools and to fill the vacume if you do not claim the one in charge position. Believe me you do NOT want the PonyCob in charge...but you don't want the Irish Draught in charge either. I do think that the Irish Draught would be more benevolent than the Cob however. Cobs are braver than Irish Draughts, and that is saying something, but they are the largest pony not the smallest horse...ponies are less flight oriented than horses from what I have seen. I anticipate that the problems of Welsh Cobs will be they are very smart and get bored very fast if their trainer lives on the rail and can't keep their active mind working for the good of all. Irish Draughts are the same, very powerful muscle butts that need a trainer unafraid of forward...no stopping to solve your problems. The Cobs are more forward than the Irish Draughts but the best from both breeds come from high expectations and serious work.

They have the strength to do anything...except shove an Irish Draught off the grain. As to how hard they are to find I think top quality Cobs are not at all hard to find in the US or Canada. The hardest thing is NOT getting more top quality Welsh Cobs. I think there are fewer that would be ready to come in at 2nd level and up but that isnt the Cobs fault. I guess it may be harder to search Welsh Cobs for sale as you will get the huge number in Wales and GB too but consider that an educational opportunity. http://members.shaw.ca/gallodwelshcobs/sale/sales.html
http://www.welshpony.org/adsCandD.htm
http://www.willowbrandwelsh.com/Willowbrand_Welsh/FOR_SALE.html
find the likely stallions from the Welsh cob and Pony Society and look for offspring. I was very impressed with the quality I found when I was looking and it is even better now due to the economy. If you don't find a quality Cob you you didnt look. I think too that there are wonderful Welsh Shows as well so there is another venue to play with your Cobs in. Plus they come in COLORS!!! and there is no compromising quality to get color. I hope to drive my tough, couragous, smart, sassy buckskin filly! PatO

exvet
Aug. 7, 2009, 03:32 AM
Tamara asked that I post one of these pics to this thread. Wasn't exactly sure which one was wanted so decided to post both. Tamara will explain later and make introductions. Here are some of her mares of welsh breeding.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o253/ldarling_photos/Other/julyhorses0452.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o253/ldarling_photos/Other/julyhorses044.jpg

tempichange
Aug. 7, 2009, 10:26 AM
PonyCob has munch marks on her butt because she will not back down or move out of the way when the Queen of All Horses says move...now. She is not stupid and if Lily is serious and shows PonyCob a foot PonyCob will fly out of range but she has EARNED every munch mark she has. If the breeds were anywhere NEAR the same size PonyCob would rule but ultimately the Irish Draughts just shove her aside like she is not there. Her persistance does pay off in one or two extra mouthsful of pellets however and that may be the next delema...how do you keep the weight off a Cob and they look to be the insulin resistant type even at two.


Coming from the land of eternal grass... Muzzle. Reinforced with augmented hole. The ponygirl only gets about 30 minutes of grass per day. She actually does better on this than anything else. Now gets coveted grain, good hay and I can always add to the diet. Subtraction is much harder.

I also pull a thyroid twice a year to make sure we're on the same track.

jcotton
Aug. 7, 2009, 10:55 AM
I have a 6 yr old cob that is working on 2nd & 3rd level. He is capable of showing 2nd level right now but I want more conformation of the collected work. Especially his hindquarters more under. He does not like that idea much. So this summer has been intense on halts with hind-end well under and has started half-steps of piaffe to get the hind-end under. The half step game is interesting, he tries real hard and then a rear straight up followed by a leap forward. For the rear and leap he gets praised because he hind-end was definitely under him. He thinks we are crazy for rewarding such a resistance. But he is rearing and leaping as much because as soon as we get 4-8 steps in rhythm, he gets lots of praise. He is not to thrilled about one whip tapping on his croup and one asking his right hind to not be shy, but getting more accepting each day. We can get 4-6 very rhthymical steps on him with someone on the ground helping. But the combination of the two helps reinforce.
His trot and canter are getting better with the half step work. Better push from behind.

As far feeding, my guy is an air-fern. He is on a strict feeding routine to keep a waistline and whithers on him. Otherwise he looks rather pregnant. When he gets a smidge pudgy his saddle crawls up to ears.

Tamara in TN
Aug. 7, 2009, 11:09 AM
Tamara asked that I post one of these pics to this thread. Wasn't exactly sure which one was wanted so decided to post both. Tamara will explain later and make introductions. Here are some of her mares of welsh breeding.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o253/ldarling_photos/Other/julyhorses0452.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o253/ldarling_photos/Other/julyhorses044.jpg



thank you ! these are the 1-3 yo fillies and one partbred 8 yo who snuck in the shot

I had another pic in mind and I wasn't clear (sorry)

http://www.productionacres.com/menai_dambuster.htm

halfway down there is a shot of a (woman in shorts:eek:) holding two of the fanciest fillies I have made yet....they were yearlings then...the bay is a g dau of the dressage Cob Stallion Kentchurch Chime we were talking about earlier and both are sisters to Exvets fancy boys...Resolule and Merlin...

Carrina is home back at Madoc in TX and the chestnut is here with me now a 3yo (and the biggest one ) in the pics Exvet popped up for me...

best

Daventry
Aug. 7, 2009, 11:38 AM
Daventry I don't think there are really all that many opinions. I think we can all agree that a good welsh cob is to die for. I'm extremely happy with mine; but, I do know first hand what can happen when a welsh cob (even a good one) gets into the wrong hands.

Yes, and as a trainer, I can tell you stories about a million different talented Hanoverians, Dutch Warmbloods, Quarter Horses, Thoroughbreds, Ponies, Appaloosa's, Arabians, etc. who have come to our barn for retraining that were also in the wrong hands! :no:

Tamara in TN
Aug. 7, 2009, 11:42 AM
Yes, and as a trainer, I can tell you stories about a million different talented Hanoverians, Dutch Warmbloods, Quarter Horses, Thoroughbreds, Ponies, Appaloosa's, Arabians, etc. who have come to our barn for retraining that were also in the wrong hands! :no:


but there are so many more of them...the cobs are so few and only one or two "misbehaving" leaves an impression for the watching audience on the whole....

best

Ajierene
Aug. 7, 2009, 12:52 PM
PonyCob has munch marks on her butt because she will not back down or move out of the way when the Queen of All Horses says move...now. She is not stupid and if Lily is serious and shows PonyCob a foot PonyCob will fly out of range but she has EARNED every munch mark she has. If the breeds were anywhere NEAR the same size PonyCob would rule but ultimately the Irish Draughts just shove her aside like she is not there. Her persistance does pay off in one or two extra mouthsful of pellets however and that may be the next delema...how do you keep the weight off a Cob and they look to be the insulin resistant type even at two.

I had to chuckle at this and it reminded me of the one Welsh cob that I have known personally. He was older and did some pony ride type stuff, but mostly his owner came every day and brushed and fussed over him. He was a very well trained show pony in his younger days (though I don't think he was THAT old....maybe 20 when I knew him?)

She told us a story of one place she boarded him at. She told him His Highness did not like horses or geldings or thoroughbred...I forget which. Well His Highness is about 13.2HH and gets tossed out with 7 or 8 average 16HH geldings (thoroughbreds if memory serves). The barn owner thinking - this little guy is no match for this many horses! Next thing you know, His Highness has all the geldings backed into a corner and is practicing his double barrel skills. That barn owner learned his lesson about listening to boarders! Especially when it came to the little Welsh guys.

He was apparently very picky and only tolerated the mini mare he was eventually put in a field with because he adored her daughter (who lived in there as long as I was there and at over 4 years old still not weaned - but that's another topic!)

exvet
Aug. 7, 2009, 02:36 PM
Yes, and as a trainer, I can tell you stories about a million different talented Hanoverians, Dutch Warmbloods, Quarter Horses, Thoroughbreds, Ponies, Appaloosa's, Arabians, etc. who have come to our barn for retraining that were also in the wrong hands!

Of course all breeds/all horses can be ruined but I think it's all too easy with a welsh cob because too many assume due to their size that they're easier, underestimate their strength and/or assume (there's that word again) that they can man handle or out muscle them - WRONG. Once a welsh cob learns to fight (and I think it's a breed that due to its strong sense of self-preservation and being quite intelligent) it's going to be a very difficult turn around.

Every breeder/person who stands a welsh cob stallion takes so much exception to me pointing these issues out. I am obviously not against the breed but come on people it just points to the fact that like Arabs the breed gets a reputation not because they deserve it but because they end up in the wrong hands. Doesn't make the outcome any less true just very unfortunate. If it will make you feel better Tracy and all of the other breeders I'm sure my welsh cobs are the exception. It must be my training. I must be the one ruining them. The ones who have been given to me were done so because of imaginary issues - simply my imagination :winkgrin: I also will bow down to your word and opinion since you are a real trainer and a judge. My lowly DVM self, trainer of solely my welsh cobs (arabs, holsteiners, TBs, & morgans) has limited experience and expertise to offer :winkgrin:

Nice try but hopefully you and a few of the others who frequent here will feel so much better (and won't feel the urge to PM or call me ;))

butlerfamilyzoo
Aug. 7, 2009, 10:39 PM
My Cob mare is by Tamara's lovely stallion as well.

http://kaydanfarms.com/Our%20Horses.htm

Whispering Welsh Model

She is now 5. My pictures of her SUCK. She has to be one of the least photogenic horses i've ever owned, that and typically whoever is photographer of the day never gets a good shot. For example:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y67/butlerfamilyzoo/Reece/SDC10888.jpg

Note - Bareback Christmas Parade pic on my website (her 3rd ride after having 9 months off from my pregnancy from he!!) Ended up in a group of strange horses following a marching band with drums and flag girls in front of our noses and a fire truck behind us... We lived. Had some "pretty" moments for the audience with our "airs above the ground..." Had some words with my pretty pony that it was NOT allowed, and then plodded along like a sleeping cow the rest of the parade... :)

Playing in the field:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y67/butlerfamilyzoo/SDC10949.jpg

My husband showing how psycho she is:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y67/butlerfamilyzoo/SDC10277.jpg

Sharing a PBJ sandwich on a camping trip, yes loose in an open field out in the middle of no where, see how badly she wishes to leave? LOL
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y67/butlerfamilyzoo/Parrie%20Haynes%20State%20Park/101_1638.jpg

Dying after we climbed this vertical little waterfall, mind you, she was 3 here...
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y67/butlerfamilyzoo/Parrie%20Haynes%20State%20Park/101_1707.jpg

Around home, looking like the cute punk that she is:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y67/butlerfamilyzoo/Reece/101_4736.jpg

The psycho canter, in its circular form, much more elevation in a straight line at this point, circles she doesnt have the balance yet:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y67/butlerfamilyzoo/Reece/SDC10897.jpg

Her adorable head that needs a narrower noseband, but she likes a crank and i cant find one narrower...
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y67/butlerfamilyzoo/Reece/SDC10867.jpg

Look at me, i'm adorable even tied to a trailer... :)
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y67/butlerfamilyzoo/Reece/SDC10298.jpg

OK, now i've bored you all... But... I love her. While i havent seen any other Dambuster get in person, the pictures (even dirty in a field) speak volumes for dressage prospects.

I have had those battles with my mare where i had to claim Alpha status, clippers are one of them, well some days. Often she acts like she has seen them her whole life, but the day before a show she will throw the biggest fit and you CAN NOT push her around. I dont care how many people you have helping, it aint happening. They have a way of using their bodies that they will just plow you right over and pen you to a wall... Speaking from experience here... I had to leave it that day and clip morning of, in which she was back to remembering that clippers dont eat horses, just make them pretty. Fly spray first time of the year, the knees buckle and she throws herself on the ground like a mustang having a rope thrown around its neck for the first time... After 3yrs with her, i now know to ignore the theatrics, tomorrow she'll be an angel and fall asleep while she gets sprayed...

I'm sure my cob is not the only one to display these antics. I used fly spray on her the first day she arrived, imagine my reaction. I really thought i was in for it and i would have to send her packing. :lol: Day two, i cringed and squeaked out a tiny bit on her shoulder, and she didnt even blink...

I have worked with MANY breeds, and while there are quirks in them all, i have to agree with Exvets experience, as mine is similar. Cobs have some quirks all their own. I love them, and i'll say it again, they are AWESOME, for the RIGHT person, but i dont recommend them for everyone.

Sorry for my novel. Exvet, maybe our next move, the Army will be so kind as to place us in your area. I would love to see your kids in person.

exvet
Aug. 7, 2009, 11:04 PM
Sorry for my novel. Exvet, maybe our next move, the Army will be so kind as to place us in your area. I would love to see your kids in person.

Likewise butlerfamilyzoo. Hey perhaps if and when it happens we could do a pas de deux with the sibs. :winkgrin:

Tamara in TN
Aug. 7, 2009, 11:23 PM
[QUOTE=butlerfamilyzoo;4291768]My Cob mare is by Tamara's lovely stallion as well.

She is now 5. My pictures of her SUCK. She has to be one of the least photogenic horses i've ever owned, that and typically whoever is photographer of the day never gets a good shot.



pooo she is lovely and you can see the same kindness in her as the others:yes:

Alexie
Aug. 8, 2009, 08:44 AM
i've been a welsh cob and pony person for over 30 years (started on the section A ponies through the section C, missing out the B's, and onto the D's)

here in the UK (according to a certain horse forum) people seem to think they're marmite horses - you love 'em or you hate 'em.

I could never imagine how anyone could have a bad word to say about 'em, they're fantastic.

But I have to accept they're not everyones cup of tea. They have a brain and a sense of humour and will make a mug out of you just for a laugh.

IME the boys are full of mischief and the girls are sweet and kind.

I think they're all wonderful and wouldn't want to be without them :)

butlerfamilyzoo
Aug. 8, 2009, 08:51 AM
Exvet - Do they have a pas de deux for Intro?! :lol: :lol: :D

I cant imagine tackling that canter with another horse in the ring yet. Maybe by the time she's 10... :winkgrin:

Tamara - She is VERY kind and tries SO hard to please. She was born broke, never gave an argument. Her 5th ride i took her on a trail ride bareback at a state park... Most everything tends to be bareback with her because i'm having saddle issues. She loves the treeless saddle, but it does not work for me, so its a constant struggle right now. I've hauled her all over the country in the 3yrs i've had her. She's got more miles than a lot of cars... She's been in two trailer accidents, the entire bumper hitch fell off our RV (welds and then bolts broke, isnt that lovely, go check your hitch attachments!), trailer went sliding down the road on its nose with the back end 3ft in the air if not more... My mare (trailering alone) stood there completely still like a statue for an hour and a half while we found someone with a truck (and large jack to jack the trailer back up since its own broke) to haul us into the show grounds, if she had moved back, the trailer could have tipped like a teeter totter (3 stall slant, but i had her in the back two bays). Other one a semi ran us off the road, we hit something on the shoulder that put a 14" gash in a trailer tire and the trailer bounced sideways like you wouldnt believe... Pulled over, she unloaded like nothing was wrong, peed on the side of the interstate, rolled in the grass, and started grazing. I could not have loved her more.

Cobs are something else, at least mine is!

exvet
Aug. 8, 2009, 09:52 AM
I could never imagine how anyone could have a bad word to say about 'em, they're fantastic.

People, particularly breeders here and abroad, constantly take my words as a slight against the breed when in reality they are simply a note of caution because common sense and true horsemanship is sorely lacking over here (or at least takes a back seat). Again I adore the breed. I too have had several years of experience. We have a unique situation here as compared to Wales/ UK and the like. First there is a much smaller number in comparison to elsewhere (already stated) and compared to many other breeds here in North America. Second we had for quite sometime a very focused and narrowed gene pool with a breed that already had a lot of close breeding (though remember I have a pretty strong Arab background and have seen it work and not work there too ;)) We have such a strong "got to have it now, got to have it my way" or Burger King mentality as I call it here that all of the traits that most of us love in welsh cobs - sense of humor, intelligence and strong sense of self-preservation - work against them when they fall into the wrong hands (those lacking common sense, experience with the breed, and/or make the mistake that they're going to make/demand that a welsh cob do "it" and fail to be able to follow it through) and so many times the wrong hands can even be "a professional".

I personally don't want to see any more of the "ruined" ones. I'm tired of the emails and the phone calls or even those approaching me at shows when they see me showing mine asking me if I can either help them place, sell or give away their "difficult" or "too sensitive" welsh cob. Perhaps it's not seen in other countries; but, it happens all too often here. I'm tired of some of our "welsh" afficionados acting like it doesn't happen or trying to keep it hush-hush. These are some of the same people who expect me to take on those that have become problems and do so without advertising it. Some of these welsh cobs just need to find the "right" person, their person and they are perfectly fine. As stated in an earlier post, some are not salvageable and I've done my part in taking a few of them on.

I am aware that Tamara told Thomas that one who is particularly "sensitive" hurt me. He did but not while riding. I backed and started him. He has a very strong flight response. I never had a dangerous issue with him while on him though he was not easy. He did bolt, however, when I was leading him after one of my many JRTs spooked him causing avulsion of my brachial plexus ('cause I had a hard grip and was not going to let him go). I won, proved a point but was left permanently injured (functional though). I knew even before I backed him that I was going to have to be very, very careful and selective in who I sold him to ('cause he was acquired as a weanling to be a stud prospect but I decided I did not would NOT breed him after I worked with him for a while though he's gorgeous and a beautiful mover; so gelding, starting & selling him on became the goal). That did not/does not mean that it had to be some pro with special talents. It had to be someone with the right personality and approach - in this case someone who could set boundaries, take leadership but with a very laid back, no pressure, able to laugh almost anything off type of personna. I found that and the new owner is thrilled with this guy. He is equally fond of her. She knew of his potential both good and what could turn out to be very bad if handled incorrectly. I turned down two (welsh cob people) who wanted him as a stallion despite knowing that he came from a long line of welsh cobs who could not be ridden.

After acquiring him (as a weanling) I found out his sire use to bolt and gave multiple people heart failure with his quick reactions. The breeder certainly did not share this with me. It was other dressage people who contacted me to warn me. His sire was finally gelded after a few foal crops. His grand dam on his sire side was unrideable to her dying days (evidently they tried multiple times to restart her). His dam is unrideable and any time I mention her to her owner and other breeders who know her their comment is, "She's my least favorite mare". This is the dirty laundry that I'm airing without naming names and if the other welsh cob breeders on this board are taking exception, as long as they don't reveal, no one outside of "our circle" will be the wiser on the particulars.

The point is, as stated over and over and over, they are and can be great mounts. I adore mine, even the ones I have sold which is why I've always been very, very selective in who mine go to (including checking out who the trainer will be). I wish others were as or more careful in where their welsh cobs have ended up; but then I too understand the challenges with that and no one can guarantee or insure what will happen once they leave your ownership. I just don't want to see anymore ruined ones. I also understand that it happens with other horses/breeds but there are far too few welsh cobs here to keep using that as an excuse or mantra in defense.

Butlerfamilyzoo - I have a welsh cob cross mare who has had the exact same issues as yours and she too is the safest, sweetest animal who I can put anyone on (even a total novice) for a hack or trail ride. I had many a BNT who told me to give up on her for a dressage mount. I have been competing at first level with her and doing well. She is schooling all the second/third level movements except the changes. The transformation in her canter has been amazing (still have some ways to go but night and day difference now). Feel free to PM or email me if you want to talk. The change didn't happen overnight but the point is she's going to be easily third level by next season. I think intro could be a distant memory for you ;)

So they are NOT for everyone; but, if you find that "right" one you will have a horse of a lifetime guaranteed.

Dune
Aug. 8, 2009, 12:44 PM
I could never imagine how anyone could have a bad word to say about 'em, they're fantastic.

But I have to accept they're not everyones cup of tea. They have a brain and a sense of humour and will make a mug out of you just for a laugh.

IME the boys are full of mischief and the girls are sweet and kind.

I think they're all wonderful and wouldn't want to be without them :)

I own one and I think she's all the personalities mentioned rolled into one. She's sweet and kind, unless you're doing something she doesn't care for, then she lets you know straight away that it's NOT all right. Everyone else around you knows too. She has quite a sense of humor as well and seems to enjoy making me look like a dope, I know this sounds implausible, but I *swear* I can hear her chuckling. She is FULL of mischief and very oral, much like a boy horse would be. She is also quite literally bombproof and I trust her more than any equine I've ever had. I can't imagine being without her, I love this rotten little mare. :yes:





I cant imagine tackling that canter with another horse in the ring yet. Maybe by the time she's 10... :winkgrin:


Cobs are something else, at least mine is!


Yes, indeed, mine is as well. Just a little note about the canter. Mine had quite the CANTER!!! as well. :eek: It was very fast, or not at all, and motorcycle turns in the corners....I swear I could put my foot down on the ground as a kickstand. ;) If I tried to touch her mouth, she just set that jaw/neck and went faster. However, a couple years later, she can counter canter through the short side in a dressage arena, her canter is quite adjustable, she can stretch or come "up" and canter nicely do her canter/walk/canter. So, it's possible, it just took much more time than I thought it ever would.




People, particularly breeders here and abroad, constantly take my words as a slight against the breed when in reality they are simply a note of caution because common sense and true horsemanship is sorely lacking over here (or at least takes a back seat). Again I adore the breed. I too have had several years of experience. We have such a strong "got to have it now, got to have it my way" or Burger King mentality as I call it here that all of the traits that most of us love in welsh cobs - sense of humor, intelligence and strong sense of self-preservation - which works against them when they fall into the wrong hands

These are some of the same people who expect me to take on those that have become problems and do so without advertising it. Some of these welsh cobs just need to find the "right" person, their person and they are perfectly fine.

So they are NOT for everyone; but, if you find that "right" one you will have a horse of a lifetime guaranteed.


I really think that those who take issue with what exvet has to say have to examine their motives. There is NOTHING that exvet says that bashes the breed in any way and, in my much more limited experience, it is all so true. I think what she has to say is and has been VERY helpful with mine. It also doesn't turn me off in any way and I would consider another "right cob" for me.

Ginger
Aug. 9, 2009, 08:58 AM
Thanks to all who have posted on this thread. I have learned a lot, and you all have given me plenty to think about.

Regards,
Ginger