Trainers for physically disabled riders

[Invite]

Here is my story. Hopefully this will pull some lurkers out of the woodwork.

I have been disabled with a neurological disorder for the past 16 years. I was fortunate enough to have remissions that were long enough for me to train hard and have accomplishments. Then BOOM...I would be back in a relapse. I managed to remain seemingly normal until my most recent relapse. It has been determined by doctors that I have an approximately 50% chance of remaining the same and the same chance of continually getting worse. There is a very minute chance I will have another remission. I have been in this "relapse" for several years and I have determined that being 31 years old, I have to suck it up and admit I am disabled. I want to continue riding and continue learning. I want to move up the levels the best I can. Despite my limitations, I am hardworking, determined, and full of tenacity. I am sure there are others out there like me.

My friend Robin is helping me accept my disability and realize a disability does not mean the end of "real" riding. We are both in the place where we need trainers who understand how to work with para equestrians and understand the ins and outs of competing as a para equestrian at regular shows as well as para shows.

I thought we could put up a list of dressage trainers who work with disabled riders. I am sure there are some of you out there who are working with great trainers. Please share! Maybe we could set up a list by state and include websites and/or contact info. This could be very helpful to others. It is hard enough to find a trainer with whom you and your horse mesh, but it's even harder when you add a physical disability into the mix. I am located in NH and am lost when it comes to finding a trainer.

Trainers, please chime in. Will you or won't you work with para equestrians? Why or why not? Have you successfully worked with the physically challenged in the past? I am asking out of curiosity and I am not looking for a trainwreck. I know it's a lot harder to accomplish things on horseback with so little feeling in my legs. I can imagine it would be far more difficult and possibly frustrating to teach me. If you or a fellow trainer you know of are interested in working with disabled dressage riders, please tell us an give us contact info

I would like this to be a positive thread. Lot's of us are suffering from physical impaiments, so let us join forces and share our connections.

Thanks in advance. I hope this thread can help some of us advance in our riding and gain confidence!

[YankeeLawyer]

I have a friend who is a para rider and does really well. Also, Debbie McDonald is very supportive of para riders and is doing a clinic soon for them. I am not sure where it is being held but I will try to get info. Also, check these sites out:

http://www.hollybergay.com/_mgxroot/page_10720.html

http://adriapara-equestrian.blogspot.com/

[mjhco]

Jessica Ransehausen (PA)
Missy Ransehausen (PA)
Sharon Schneidman (CO)

[GaellentQuest]

Invite-

How did you manage to come to terms with not being able to ride at the same level you use to? I am being treated for a neurological disorder for the last 4 years. Some days are better then others. Some meds get a better result then others. I use to ride at the upper levels of Eventing and am now struggling with being able to ride w/t/c on horses that are not push button. Right now I am struggling with just trying to get healthy. How did you handle the stress if I may ask?

[Paintpony4u]

Here is a trainer in Maine.

Cassi Martin

[Ibex]

In BC you have Sandra Verde and Andrea Taylor for sure. I suspect there are others as well (we have a pretty big para-dressage group here)

[Lambie Boat]

I can't recommend a certain trainer per se, but how much of your leg can you feel? Above the knee? Any "seat" oriented trainer should be willing to work w/ you. Avoid the 'legs of steel' or gadget trainers. Where are you located?

[Lambie Boat]

p.s. doctors don't know much and they should stop pretending they do

meanwhile, you can make a small fortune teaching firewalking seminars!

[case solved]

I work at a therapeutic riding center in the midwest. Although I am sure you probably have more skills than many of the students we teach, we do have classes for riders that are independent, meaning that we don't have lead lines clipped on and the class is taught by a local dressage coach. I know sometimes there is a prevailing attitude that therapeutic riding centers only deal with the very profound, but many offer these type of classes. Our center also has private lessons available and many of our classes run at cheaper costs because they have private sponsorship, etc. It sounds like you have done very well in the past and a therapeutic riding center might not be the right fit, but it's worth looking into. Some of them have really great programs for disabled, but still very capable and able minded riders.

Also, I'm not sure of what kind of therapy you are doing but have you looked into hippotherapy as a supplement to other riding work? I am studying to be a physical therapist and have done some work with hippotherapy and seen amazing results.

Best of luck to you in your search and your quest to help others as well. What better way to heal then to connect with the spirit and willingness of a horse!

[Invite]

Invite-

How did you manage to come to terms with not being able to ride at the same level you use to? I am being treated for a neurological disorder for the last 4 years. Some days are better then others. Some meds get a better result then others. I use to ride at the upper levels of Eventing and am now struggling with being able to ride w/t/c on horses that are not push button. Right now I am struggling with just trying to get healthy. How did you handle the stress if I may ask?

Honestly, there are days when I feel that I have not come to terms with it. Most days, I just tell myself I have 2 choices. Choice #1, sell the horses and give up everything I have worked and fought for my entire life. In turn, I will be the most bored, depressed person out there. Choice #2, KEEP FIGHTING!!!! Part of me is just determined to prove others wrong. Believe me, there are days I cry. If I allow myself to sink into the "why me" zone, it will pull me in like quick sand. As a result, I just try to stay strong and tell myself it could be a heck of a lot worse.

When I first became ill as a teen, it was gut wrenching. I had felt invincible. I rode with a trainer who concentrated on a heavy dressage background (the reason I ended up focusing mainly in dressage) even though I rode hunters and equitation. I was the type of kid who would ride any horse and jump anything. I was fearless/stupid. It was much harder when I first became ill then it is now. Even though I went in and out of relapses and remissions, every single time I went in to remission, I truly and foolishly believed I was cured and again invincible. The anguish and horror I felt as a teen makes what I feel today seem like nothing.

Adulthood gave me a bit more intelligence and made me cherish each remission, knowing it could be the last. Now that I have been properly diagnosed, albeit not yet fully diagnosed, I realize a remission is highly unlikely. Even if I go into remission, I have suffered from a great deal of nerve damage and I won't be back to the old me. I have just started to be rational and thankful for all the remissions I had and truly, according to the medical field, should not have had. My reality is what I once considered my worst nightmare. Now that it is reality, I see that all is not lost and someday, somehow even if it is with dispensations, I will compete again.

I have some good, true friends and a supportive family. They have all helped me cope with the stress. Lots of so called friends disappeared and that made me depressed at the time, but truthfully, they weren't real friends.

I hope disabled riders, whether they are dressage riders or not, will join this thread or maybe we can get our own forum and we can provide support for each other. A strong support system is so important!!

[mjhco]

Please keep at it!

Missy Ransehausen and Sharon Schneidman coach the US Para Dressage team.

They are both wonderful sympathetic people AND the top of their game.

The team is always looking for more participants. And having been around a few of the people who participate I am humbled and amazed at their tenacity, drive, perseverance.

I can only imagine what it would be like to not be able to ride as I had in the past. So I look at these riders and try to learn.

[IdahoRider]

I had to search a good deal before I found a trainer that would work with me. I had a spinal cord injury in 1995 and lost feeling from my waist down. I was able to eventually regain my ability to walk, although I do have a limp and I never did get the feeling back. I have a permanent caudal block, basically.

The instructor I ride with has been a fantastic. Very much worth the effort I put in finding her. She is supportive and pushes me to keep improving. But she has no experience working with a disabled rider, and there have been times when the issue we are trying to address from a strictly riding perspective isn't fixable from a strictly riding perspective. Keeping my stirrups, especially my right, is something I have struggled with from Day One. But she has no experience in adapting tack for a disabled rider, so the only fix available is what she would tell an able bodied rider. I get discouraged because no matter how hard I try, it just doesn't work for me. It took another COTHer explaining to me how to rubber band my foot into the stirrup to fix it.

There are so many of us out here, trying to make our riding lives work. I was shocked when these disabled rider threads started popping up. I had no idea there were so many of us! We all know what it is like to have a doctor lecture about the advisability of riding at all. Or to be in tons of pain from just 30 minutes of saddle time. Or how rough it is when you are the only one at your barn who needs help mounting. I wish there was a forum just for us, because the obstacles we face ARE different. Here in Idaho it can be hard enough to find dressage clinics/instruction/whatever. It is ten times harder to find it when you're a disabled rider.
Sheilah

[pintopiaffe]

I work with special students of all sorts. I do NOT claim to do 'therapeutic' riding because I am unable to spend the time and $$$$ to get my NARHA Certification. I work with both physically and mentally challenged riders, using dressage as the basis for it. I breed and bring along my own school horses specifically for a combination of temperament and talent--they need to be sensitive in one way (say, to follow the aids of a rider with little/no use of legs) and tolerant in other ways.

[GaellentQuest]

I was bored and thru together a forum for disabled riders http://ridinguphill.ning.com/forum

[whicker]

Thank you Invite for taking the lead in starting this thread! It will be terrific to have a thread that we can use to pass our info along. If enough of us ask, Coth will be more inclined to grant us a forum. We have to show that we are a large enough group to make the financial numbers work.

If we ask for editorial copy, articles, etc. they should be more willing to have a para-equestrian section, especially since Paralympics IS an Olympic sport and will be at WEG.

We want to ride and it is tough to mentally overcome the frustration, disappointment and loneliness of overcoming the challenges. It takes courage and determination, compassion for ourselves, and a devious creative mind. The last one is used to invent ways around the problems. By helping each other, we can speed that process along.

Take courage! Join us!

[mp]

I have no advice or trainer information. Just a lot of admiration for you para-equestrians for having the strength and persistence to stay in the game. Go get 'em. :yes:

[Movin Artfully]

Michael Richardson is a paraplegic rider/clinician. I rode in one of his clinics several years ago and thought he was spectacular. He and his wife are in Texas. I know he was involved with NAHRA several years ago...would be worth checking out.

http://www.brokenrranch.com/history.htm

[whicker]

In Invite's thread about Mdc stirrups, there was a discussion about Ontyte stirrups for our needs. I promised I would try them out and report back to all of you.

At Journeyman Saddlery, I picked up the trial booties with the metal strips on the sole and the magnetic stirrups. The booties slip over the riding boot. For show and right now, one gets one's boots resoled with the special soles with the metal strips exactly where one wants them. The stirrups are light but substantial. You can't see anything is different. They are black, which I like because I don't want to draw more attention to my feet than I have to. This Fall they will be coming out in the regular silver color. Dover will be carrying them.

I am riding a small Hanovarian mare, Ruby, who is 8 and recently out of a broodmare band. While she is quiet and kind, she is green. We are doing trails and arena work. I am working towards Going Out In Public with her. Then we will be showing intro just to be able to see people and be part of the world.

I have neurological and spinal issues from a broken back and hyper-extended pelvic ligaments and SI. I lose the feeling in my feet and legs, especially if the spinal cord gets Zapped from too much movement or shock. It is difficult for me to sit the trot and canter. Luckily, I was an international levels eventer, so I am happy in variations of light seat or 2 point.

First Day:

Ruby did 2 startles from rabbits and full size deer who didn’t want to move out of our way. Normally, I would lose contact with my right stirrup and then come down with my foot too far through the stirrup. They stayed in position and I didn’t have to have my foot rammed down to maintain contact. We then went over to a steep down hill slope that she hates to go down. She props and stiffens and tries to twist to avoid doing it right. She gets sugar for doing it correctly, but this is a work in process. The stirrup stayed on my foot and I didn’t slide through. It feels odd not to fight for the stirrups, but I think I can adjust rather quickly!

When first mounting, it took some finesse and trial and error and walking around to put the stirrup on the right place on the ball of my foot. You will probably want some help from your assistants to position them. Bradley, my son, held Ruby for me while I bent over and raised the assembly to nudge it in to place. But then you don’t have to deal with it any more. The test booties had 3 magnets to show the different placements. That made it harder than a final pair that has the 2 magnets in the right place.


These require one effort at the beginning, and then you don’t have to deal with them until you are ready to get off. I had a cell phone call as I was getting off Ruby and I could release my foot, dismount and not drop the phone or the call!

Second day:

Now I am feeling empowered by the stirrups. I got on Ruby and adjusted the stirrups by myself. Then I headed over to the ravine and small mountain trails.

While we walked down a steep slope, there was humongous 8" log which Ruby popped over, then scrambled down the rest of the slope. I didn't lose stirrups and I didn't get the awful Zot in my back. I am soo excited!

We crossed a big stream, went up the bank and started trotting up the first mountain. Then we did a little canter. Trotted some more and along the ridge popped over 2 more small logs. It felt wonderful not to lose stirrups or have the uneasy chattering of my right foot. I didn't need lots of pressure to keep my foot in place, so Ruby was happier and I could ride softer in my legs. We walked down a slope and turned on my old galloping trail. I asked her for a trot, then a canter, and then a hand gallop. OH WOW! I felt so alive again! :D:D:lol:

By now, my body was adjusting to not worrying about falling. The saddle stayed centered and my body felt balanced and comfortable. On the way home, we crossed some small muddy streams and Ruby's lurch over them didn't cause any problems with the stirrups.

I think I rode better than I have in ages. Certainly with more confidence. I am looking forward to trying them for a dressage lesson. I bet the trot and canter work will go better because of them. :D

[equineartworks]

Invite...I was you 10 years ago. There are days I still struggle so much, but there peace now. I know that God forbid I am unable to move or function tomorrow I have done something to not only make my life better, but to help others who are struggling too.

I have MS, rheumatoid arthritis and a host of associated autoimmune issues. Basically...my body hates itself :lol:

I have been through it all..I swear...and I have a small equine assisted therapy program here at our farm and am on the verge of launching, in my opinion, a trail blazing program with a top notch facility. There is so much, SO MUCH, you have to offer...and with the ok of your care team, that can include riding! I will dig out my piles of info and post them :)

[srg]

I'm posting from the Holiday Inn in West Chester, PA where I just arrived after a phenomenal lesson with Missy Ransehousen. OMG, the Ransehousens are AWESOME to ride with, I'm sure whether all your body parts are working properly or not. :D

Today, I rode half passes in trot and canter in both directions. Not a big deal for some, but a HUGE accomplishment for me as my left leg doesn't work properly from the mid-thigh down. My disability is the result of an incomplete spinal cord injury after an auto accident, poorly timed, shortly after thoracic spine surgery.

Anyway, besides losing my left stirrup or getting my foot stuck too far in if my foot isn't banded, I don't have the correct feedback from my brain to my spinal cord to know where my leg and foot are (impaired proprioception) in space. I have a foot drop which is exactly what you don't want when riding and if I put too much weight to the left, my numb and tingling leg, goes so dead and painful it brings me to tears. Imagine when your arm or leg falls asleep and then imagine that you cannot shake it back awake. Not fun!

Re-learning the shoulder-in and haunches-in came easier than the half-pass. Don't get me started on my frustration that I couldn't get the half pass which is just one step beyond the SI and HI. Half-passing to the left would turn into a leg yield because I couldn't maintain the left bend and couldn't quite get my weight to the inside. In the half pass to the right I didn't get my mare moving off my left leg and the movement would turn into a diagonal line.

I've only been riding with Missy and Jessica (mostly Missy) since May. I am fortunate to live only a couple of hours away from them. They have taught me to use my weight to tell my mare what I wanted. At first it was obvious to anyone watching--now, not so much. They told me "now, now, now" to help me get the timing of using the whip to tap my mare over. They told me to get longer spurs so I didn't have to twist my foot around to use this aid when needed. They gave me exercises to get control of my mare's shoulders and haunches which are the building blocks of a successful half pass. I'm sure their lessons would improve anyone's riding, but for me, they seem to understand there are some things I just cannot physically do in the saddle so they keep at it until an exercise gets the desired response.

Whicker, thanks so much for the stirrup review!! I may just look into it even though I am happy, so far, with my $1 rubber band. I confess that I've often thought that banding BOTH feet into the stirrups would be Nirvana.

I would love to converse with others riding with disabilities. There are several Para riders at the Ransehousens and I am both humbled and inspired by everyone's skills and dedication. For me, riding dressage on my special mare is the best physical therapy (and psychotherapy!!) I could ever desire, regardless of whatever I accomplish in the show ring.

[pintopiaffe]

We want to ride and it is tough to mentally overcome the frustration, disappointment and loneliness of overcoming the challenges. It takes courage and determination, compassion for ourselves, and a devious creative mind. The last one is used to invent ways around the problems.

I can't imagine NOT riding, or being around horses, when you have chronic pain, illness, or different abilities. None of it makes you LOVE them any less. And they are incredible healers, beyond words, really, how much they can help. Even if it is just to enable you for the time you are on them, but it's so much more. It's what they do for our soul.

Ironically, I find myself identifying more with my special students at times. An injury left me with a degenerative hip that has been near impossible to get a saddle that doesn't hurt me, but that His Princeness & the Pea approves of. And recently I'm going through the diagnosis process for Fibro. The Rx they have me on is working, but I'll soon have to come off it if I can't get health insurance. Fibro is different from some issues, but the same as others that come on without warning, slapping you in the face and saying "you planned to do WHAT?"

But they won't get the horses away from me until they pry them from my cold, dead hands. ;)

[KatherineC]

Missy and Jessica Ransehousen are great para coaches. I had the pleasure to spend time at their farm this winter and was absolutely blown away by the para riders and their wonderful horses. I learned that to be competative on the international scene the horses must have excellent gaits, be sensitive, easy to sit and very sensible. I saw one horse after another come in with riders of varying disabilities and could not believe how wonderful the riders presented their horses.

It was a delight to watch and extremely inspirational. Some of the riders also compete in able body classes and do very well. It made me realize that I have no complaints and that any road block I have with my riding is minimal compared to what many of these riders have to manage.

Missy and Jessica are extremely generous with their time. Call and ask to come for a visit. The property is gorgeous and the working students are top notch.

[whicker]

Any thoughts of trainers or riders in Virginia? I am game to put together clinics at my place in Fauquier Co. if we have enough people. Wouldn't it be lovely to have company and make it a celebration? We could have little parasols decorating the gatorade and horseback canapes, a la foxhunting stirrup cups.

[YankeeLawyer]

Any thoughts of trainers or riders in Virginia? I am game to put together clinics at my place in Fauquier Co. if we have enough people. Wouldn't it be lovely to have company and make it a celebration? We could have little parasols decorating the gatorade and horseback canapes, a la foxhunting stirrup cups.

I believe Morven Park has therapeutic riding classes because my assistant was volunteering for them for a while (for some reason I think she learned about it through pony club but will have to ask her). I also am not certain what level they were teaching, but will try to find out.

[Ellie&Werther]

I have a friend who is a para rider and does really well. Also, Debbie McDonald is very supportive of para riders and is doing a clinic soon for them. I am not sure where it is being held but I will try to get info. Also, check these sites out:

http://www.hollybergay.com/_mgxroot/page_10720.html

http://adriapara-equestrian.blogspot.com/

My Mom won the PVDA Debbie McDonald Clinic for me. We are going to have a two day clinic in Minnesota. We are still working on dates, right now we are thinking November during the week. Holly Bergay has expressed interest in attending, I'm riding of course, and my trainer who is not a para rider has a spot. With the exception of my trainer we want all riders to be classified as para riders, we are not charing any fees for para riders and we are going to donate the auditor proceeds to the US Para Dressage Team.

[YankeeLawyer]

My Mom won the PVDA Debbie McDonald Clinic for me. We are going to have a two day clinic in Minnesota. We are still working on dates, right now we are thinking November during the week. Holly Bergay has expressed interest in attending, I'm riding of course, and my trainer who is not a para rider has a spot. With the exception of my trainer we want all riders to be classified as para riders, we are not charing any fees for para riders and we are going to donate the auditor proceeds to the US Para Dressage Team.

Thank you for posting! I was at the PVDA Auction and Debbie was so psyched you guys got it!

[Ellie&Werther]

Thank you for posting! I was at the PVDA Auction and Debbie was so psyched you guys got it!

I was bidding for my Mom, she is not very comfortable with ebay, of course that night the internet went out in my apartment. :eek: It was down to wire in the last few minutes, I had to do my bidding from my iphone. I used to show hunters, and my Mom does jumpers and is friends with Bob McDonald, he should also get credit, he kept egging my Mom on to bid higher. :D

[Janet]

Any thoughts of trainers or riders in Virginia? I am game to put together clinics at my place in Fauquier Co. if we have enough people. Wouldn't it be lovely to have company and make it a celebration? We could have little parasols decorating the gatorade and horseback canapes, a la foxhunting stirrup cups.
PM sent

[YankeeLawyer]

I was bidding for my Mom, she is not very comfortable with ebay, of course that night the internet went out in my apartment. :eek: It was down to wire in the last few minutes, I had to do my bidding from my iphone. I used to show hunters, and my Mom does jumpers and is friends with Bob McDonald, he should also get credit, he kept egging my Mom on to bid higher. :D

I would have been out of luck if the internet had gone down! I don't have an iphone and my blackberry's internet is not hot. I used to show hunters, too : )

[Natalie A]

My trainer truly has a ridiculous amount of patience with me, and I'm so grateful for that--I wouldn't be on my way to my first dressage show(s) this fall without her instruction (along with the series of wonderful school horses I have progressed on). I have a congenital neuromuscular disorder and visual impairment, the combination of which can sometimes lead to interesting results when riding :).

I volunteer at a therapeutic riding center, which really helps me focus on being thankful for what I am able to do, instead of over-analyzing what I struggle with.

[kdow]

I'd be quite interested if anyone knows of someone on the southwestern end of PA (near Pittsburgh) - One of the things that keeps holding me back from getting started riding again (besides plain old nerves and the expense of lessons :) ) is concern about problems I might have due to arthritis. Someone experienced with understanding the needs of someone less-than-able bodied might be a good fit for me right now.

[DownYonder]

I just want to say that I have enormous respect for those of you who are continuing to ride despite physical disablities. I have not been labeled as "disabled", but I have progessive degenerative problems in both hands/wrists from old injuries that are making it very difficult for me to ride effectively. I am now weighing my options regarding my riding, as I cannot close my left hand to hold the reins securely and have severe numbness issues in my right hand. It has been a bit discouraging, yet nothing like the issues some of you folks have been dealing with. Kudos to all of you, and best wishes in your riding endeavors!

[Lambie Boat]

one numb hand = neck rein or riding thumb/right rein- pinkie left rein (for instance left hand) piano (flat) on top necessary for this but works well with a single jointed fat snaffle bit

a horse can be trained to accommodate any rider physical issue, if it's the rider's own horse. Since I'm unable to feel most sensation with lower legs, and none with my feet, my horses are coming up to work primarily off my seat and weight aids

It's the days of vertigo and nausea that keep me off the horse and on the sofa, because balance is shot. Everything else is fair game

[whicker]

How does the rubber band work? Other than zinging it off your stirrup to wake up the judge?:lol: Seriously, I am trying to see what you do with it from small photos. I read that the show jumpers used them until the ontyte stirrups came out, but they were illegal for Hong Kong.

I saw some rein loops in one of the catalogs. Would that help DownYonder? There was a photo on the para-equestrian site of a rider who was using her teeth to hold the reins. :eek: She had extra reins that went to somewhere around her girth or stirrup area. Her position looked great.

Are there websites for para equipment? Hopefully with great descriptions of how to use the product:winkgrin:

I personally want a saddle that absorbs the shock of a bad step so my back doesn't get zapped.

I am headed down to Huntsville, Alabama to pick up my son, Mason, who has been interning at NASA. Any questions you all have for the rocket scientists?
I will have an opportunity to ask the gurus on Friday.:cool:

[Invite]

Wow, I never realized this thread would get so many responses. Of course, I live in southern NH...near nothing.

Tomorrow I find out if my shattered finger has filled in with enough bone and the screws are holding it together well enough for me to get back on. I'm very excited. The doctor is not worried about me riding with the finger, just falling off and severing the damaged tendons and ligaments or re shattering everything. i was told I could ride as long as i wasn't going to fall off?!?!?!? Hello doctor, I can barely walk, I have balance issues, and suffer from chronic pain. I cannot guarantee you that I will not fall off!!!!

I know I will only be able to walk for quite a while. My brain knows what to do, but my nerves and therefore my muscles don't get the correct signals. Fortunately, my muscle memory seems to sloooooooowly come back. My legs can't do what they used to, but I also don't have the problem of gripping too much and my sitting trot is great once I get to the point of trotting. My calmest horse is a bit on the boisterous side, so everyone keep your fingers crossed. In the beginning, I will be led around in my round pen. For someone who was a maniac on horseback as a child, pony rides are a little embarassing. I guess I am better safe and in the saddle then sorry and in the ER!!!!

I wish I lived closer to PA so I could take some lessons with the Ransenhousens or closer to Debbie McDonald. Even if I weren't disabled, it would be absolutely incredible to ride with someone like that. Until I regain some muscle memory, I am sure I would be a waste of their time. But wow, to ride with someone like that would be amazing. How wonderful that riders of that caliber are willing to "give back" and show an interest in disabled riders. It is very heartwarming that people of Olympic caliber don't look down on riders who cannot perform to the perfection of dressage ideals.

Please keep sharing your stories. They are very inspiring!!!

Whicker, if we have a disabled COTH ride at your place, I'm stealing Bradley's ancient Arabian ;)

[planetlisa]

I am really interested in how to do the rubber bands with the stirrup.

I need to get my para classification; just hitting a few dead ends on communication. I know everyone's out enjoying the nice weather and busy with shows :)

[onelanerode]

I have never seen an English rider use rubber bands in the stirrups, but I've seen some barrel racers use them.

Basically all you do is take a larger, heavy-duty rubber band and make a figure eight with it. One loop goes over your toe, the "X" crosses under your foot and the bottom of the stirrup, and the other loop goes over your heel. The Western boots have soles that seem to protrude a little from the actual boot, which makes a suitable "catch" for that loop of the rubber band.

It makes me uneasy, even though logic tells me that the rubber band is almost certainly going to come undone should you fall, and you won't get dragged ... but still.

[whicker]

With the rubber band your foot could still slide forward too far? Or re-arrange position? Is it just used for in the arena, more controlled situations? It would make me a bit worried to use it on the trail. What about snagging it on branches?

I saw some very heavy duty rubber bands at Tri-County Feeds. They were for holding helmet covers on or making an over-size hat fit better. They were about 1" wide.

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

Oh man, now you have me all thinking...wouldn't it be fabulous to have a clinic where you could ride, maybe like the USDF camps, maybe even with a competition with local horses at the facility, and have roundtable discussions about what you consider to be significant issues? Maybe even have invited speakers to address commonalities, maybe even get some companies to sponsor - let them see there is a market for devices like you need, and they can get your input on the design. And we could raise money to get grants to support the clinic, so the cost would not be overwhelming...

EAW and I discussed something of the sort for rescue groups as part of Special Horses Inc. Of course, at that point, we had only just started discussing whether we should apply for 501(c)3 status, and so we weren't even able to solicit money for things like this. But I'm on the BOD of EAW's equine assisted therapy organization...so maybe we could try and pull something together?

EQUINEARTWORKS...WHERE ARE YOU WHEN I HAVE THESE RUNAWAY IDEAS?

EAW started a message board limited to our groups as part of www.specialhorses.org. Maybe we could start by doing something similar for her EAT site?

[equineartworks]

Oh man, now you have me all thinking...wouldn't it be fabulous to have a clinic where you could ride, maybe like the USDF camps, maybe even with a competition with local horses at the facility, and have roundtable discussions about what you consider to be significant issues? Maybe even have invited speakers to address commonalities, maybe even get some companies to sponsor - let them see there is a market for devices like you need, and they can get your input on the design. And we could raise money to get grants to support the clinic, so the cost would not be overwhelming...

EAW and I discussed something of the sort for rescue groups as part of Special Horses Inc. Of course, at that point, we had only just started discussing whether we should apply for 501(c)3 status, and so we weren't even able to solicit money for things like this. But I'm on the BOD of EAW's equine assisted therapy organization...so maybe we could try and pull something together?

EQUINEARTWORKS...WHERE ARE YOU WHEN I HAVE THESE RUNAWAY IDEAS?

EAW started a message board limited to our groups as part of www.specialhorses.org. Maybe we could start by doing something similar for her EAT site?

you're killing me woman :lol:

Having clinics and trainings for those of us with special needs is one of the main motivators behind my wanting to secure the perfect facility for our program. And a forum is on the list of things we will have on our site.

But first we still need that official name!!!!!!! For those of you who don't know the history behind it, Special Horses was the name I had in mind for my program. But when geek and I first started tossing around ideas for things we needs a domain name and since I have specialhorses.org already reserved we decided to use it...and the name stuck!

But now I am lost without an official name. We have names for sub programs...but not THE name. Help?

[AppendixQHLover]

I am not physically disabled but I wanted to come in here and say something. Everyone of you that is physically disabled and rides has my utmost respect and admiroation. You have ignored something that would stop most people in their tracks and continued to ride. bravo to all of you.

If some sort of fund raiser is done in for raising money i will buy or donate something!

[equineartworks]

I work with special students of all sorts. I do NOT claim to do 'therapeutic' riding because I am unable to spend the time and $$$$ to get my NARHA Certification. I work with both physically and mentally challenged riders, using dressage as the basis for it. I breed and bring along my own school horses specifically for a combination of temperament and talent--they need to be sensitive in one way (say, to follow the aids of a rider with little/no use of legs) and tolerant in other ways.

I am not certified either pintopiaffe, however there is no reason why you cannot indeed say you offer therapeutic riding. If you have a program that offers a benefit to a special needs rider you are indeed offering therapeutic riding and should be proud of it!

Our program was developed based upon NARHA and American Hippotherapy Association guidelines. Right now the $1000 or more it would cost us to each certify is money better spent on building the program. We will do it eventually...but the most important goal right now is meeting the needs of the riders. :)

I may haunt the dressage forum frequently now that I know there are so many of you interested in TR!

[eventer4ever]

I am a NARHA registered instructor and during my certification workshop last year, I was told by the evaluators how to rubber band a foot in the stirrup. Let me assure you, if done correctly and with narrow rubber bands, it is safe!

First you need a longish rubber band (I specifically have 1/4lb weight, size 117 OfficeMax brand). These are thin and about 5 inches long.

Second, you take the foot out of the stirrup and put the rubber band over the foot behind the ball of the foot (leave the rubber band hanging down toward the ground).

Third, foot goes back in the stirrup. Adjust foot to where it needs to be in stirrup.

Fourth, pull rubber band under stirrup and put back over riders foot.

I hope my explanation makes sense......you almost have to see it to do it!

I don't figure eight mine and the rubber band will slide off if the foot manages to get out of the stirrup. This doesn't provide a super strong hold in the stirrup; it just provides some support, especially if the rider has no feeling or use of the foot. If the leg/foot is really spastic, this method won't hold the foot in the stirrup for very long because it is not a strong "fix".

Erica

If anyone has a disability and is in the South Bend, IN area, my barn owner used to be heavily involved in the paraolympics and has school horses that are very safe! She still teaches some and she even has a wheelchair ramp in her indoor for mounting! Rebecca Hart, who is the 2008-9 National Paraolympic Champion and 2008 Beijing Paraolympian, trained with my barn owner through high school and spent a year at her farm!

[IdahoRider]

I got instructions on how to rubber band my foot from another COTHer during the thread about the Ontyte stirrups.

I have to say that it really makes a difference. I use the size/#107 rubber band that I ordered from Staples and the instructions from eventer4ever on how to use them are correct. However, I have to say that the band I use gives me a tight, secure fit that ensures my foot does not move in the stirrup at all. It holds my foot in place and keeps it there. I did jerk my foot out of the stirrup, just to see if I could, and found that the band will release when force is applied. I am sure if I were to come off the band will break or stretch enough to release my foot.
Sheilah

[whicker]

This is wonderful! Dressagegeek and Equineartworks and Pintopiaffe, I have been admiring you all for months! You have shown some of the best and kindest thoughts on the whole collection of forums! Thanks for your enthusiasm!

[srg]

Here are the banding dircections I sent to Idaho Rider:

"When I ride, I use a #107 rubber band to hold my foot in the stirrup. It makes a HUGE difference. If you Google #107 rubber band, you will find tons of sources to buy the bands and they are cheap. When your foot is out of the stirrup you put the band around the toe of your boot (behind where your foot will be once it is in the stirrup), then place your foot in the stirrup where you want it, twist the band underneath the stirrup and band it over the toe again. It gives me a very secure feeling when riding, but requires someone else to band and unband. I haven't been able to do that myself from the saddle yet."

For those of you local to Maryland/Virginia/DC, I spoke to Missy about doing some riding clinics at my Frederick County farm and she gave me some weekday possibilities in September and then after October 31st, some weekend possibilities. I will be happy to email anyone interested when I confirm the dates she will be at my farm. As I said in my earlier post, anyone would learn a tremendous amount riding with Missy. And with her eventing successes, I'm sure that the interest in her teaching methods would include those who ride over fences.

[Invite]

This is it...I need to move south where I can do some clinics. I'm close to all the Boston hospitals, but I'd much rather be in riding country!!!!

[pintopiaffe]

We have names for sub programs...but not THE name. Help?Sorry EAW, InnisFailte is taken. It means 'pastures of welcome' or 'forever welcome.' :p

Invite... where are you? I come down to Merrimac, MA to ride, and have some connections there VERY interested in doing some sort of therapuetic work. They also have upper level schoolmasters who would be quite suitable for lessons/clinics etc.

I teach through 2ndish (have one student working in 3rd) and my teacher takes them beyond...

Geek... you keep thinking like that, and keep me in the loop, 'kay? I can't travel too often or for too long... but really want to stay connected with the ideas started here.

[slc2]

I loved volunteering at a therapeutic riding center, I hope you do it pintopiaffe.

We really don't have anywhere near enough information here and discussion of para-dressage. We need a lot more goin' on here on this subject! I think I can visualize the rubber band thing, but I hope other folks as well will post here about equipment and training more.

[Lambie Boat]

I buy stick on Velcro (hook and loop) and stick one side on the ball of my boot and the other on the stirrup iron. It's not 100% stick um but works to keep irons on my feet. I do not ride with long, long leathers. I wear full seat breeches and rub Equitite on the inside of my boot so my lower legs stay pretty quiet. I no longer show so I don't know if this is show-ring 'legal' but don't see why not if you tell TD/show sec.

I know a disabled rider with a bumpersticker that says "I ride the talk"

and explained he can't walk the walk, but he can ride the talk :D

[Traum]

Thorncroft Equestrian Center in Malvern PA has just the type of clinics you guys are talking about. I don't know how local they are to many of you but they really do a great job with all types of riders.

You who've been to Devon may have seen the Mainstreamers, the drill team for kids of all abilities from Thorncroft. It's really a neat place, with room for everyone. There are many clinics offered through the year. The Ransehausen's have cliniced there several times in the last few years.

Thorncroft.org It's worth a look :)

[KLS]

Just another vote here for Thorncroft and their clinics. Having shown at Thorncroft (both HRE of Devon (I have cerebral palsy) and their schooling shows), I can say I adore the staff, facilities, and horses. I've never had the pleasure of taking a clinic there, but would love to if I get back east long-term.

I was priveliged enough to be part of the 1995 Paralympic hopeful/devloping riders training camp, and had lessons with some incredible trainers. Names that I recall: Louie Plagge, Sarah Cotton (based in France now), and Trip Harting... there were at least a dozen more, and it was an experience that I'll never forget.

Honestly, I think most trainers are fairly open to "tweaking" their systems to work with riders with disabilities. Oddly enough, I found my dressage trainer from reccommendations of others with Morgans re: her ability to worl with their unique mindsets. Any adaptations made for me were just another part of the package deal. So they *are* out there, sometimes it just takes a different perspective to find them.

Love this thread; looking forward to hearing from others as well.

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

Ah, EAW and I, as so often, our minds humming along the same paths.

After all...since we are thinking along these lines for Special Horses Inc it is not so much to incorporate them into ..into..WE NEED A NAME FOR EAW'S NEW PROGRAM!!!

So...what would be a meaningful name to any of you?

[whicker]

Equineartworks,

Please tell us more about your idea and program. Where is it? What is it's purpose, mission and focus? Is it regional or geographical? What are it's unique features that you want to emphasize? Are you creating an umbrella organization? Have you done any marketing surveys? Please pm me with whatever details you feel comfortable, and I will brainstorm with you

[Invite]

Equineartworks,

Please tell us more about your idea and program. Where is it? What is it's purpose, mission and focus? Is it regional or geographical? What are it's unique features that you want to emphasize? Are you creating an umbrella organization? Have you done any marketing surveys? Please pm me with whatever details you feel comfortable, and I will brainstorm with you

I agree, more info would be fantastic.
I am hoping more trainers and riders will chime in with their ideas and join this topic. I am really hoping for some "normal" trainers (trainers who don't just work with para-equestrains) to let us know if/how they are willing to adjust their training techniques. I would love to hear from "real" judges and know what they think about riders showing at "real" shows with dispensations and if this affects their scoring in any way.

[whicker]

Hi Pintopiaffe,

You have a new pm from me.

[Clair Stirling]

Thanks, eventer4ever, for mentioning my former coach in South Bend, In. She is excellent. She worked with me from late 98 through 99 and 2000 to get ready to try out for the Sydney 2000 U.S. Paralympic Dressage Team. I was the 1999 overall Grade 3 Champion for the year, was the highest placed individual on the 2000 team as well as had the highest individual score of our team members. It was a wonderful experience and I shall treasure it forever. There are trainers/teachers that will take on physically challenged riders - but you do have to ask around and make sure of their qualifications to teach. I taught for 30 years before deciding to take on the challenge of trying out for a team and am a certified instructor from Morven Park (1970).

[betsyk]

I wish I could remember people's names because it's been a while, BUT... back in the mid-90's I volunteered at some shows sponsored by ACORD, which was not specifically a NARHA group but its goal was to organize shows at a national level for riders with disabilities. Some were participants in therapeutic riding programs, others were more interested in paralympic-level competition. The idea, as I understood it, was to "up the ante" and provide a training ground, so to speak, for future paralympic riders. That was also the first year riders with disabilities were included in the NAYRC. Anyway, ACORD seems to have faded away over the years but there are still many individuals involved in therapeutic riding who either teach or compete at the higher levels or could be a resource for people who want to get involved. The names I do remember are Gail Pace and Lily Kellogg in Texas and Sandy Rafferty in MO. Pal-o-Mine on Long Island was also very involved in getting riders to national competitions. I suspect you could contact these people or programs and find out if they have personal/professional contacts in your area. I don't think people realize how many "bridges" there are between therapeutic riding and paralympic riding, especially in the parts of the country where there's a lot of serious dressage.

Approaching it from a different angle -- have you approached your local GMO (dressage group) to network? is it possible to go to some of the bigger shows in your area to sit and watch coaches and riders and scope out styles you like? I'm thinking your best bet is likely to be either a) get a name, check them out informally, watch them teach others, approach them to see if they'd take you as a student, or b) have a friend/acquaintence/COTH person make the contact for you. Some instructors are really unnecessarily reluctant to take a rider with a disability because they're afraid they're going to do some sort of harm or the person will get hurt and they'll lose their farm. Others aren't... sometimes meeting the potential student face-to-face makes it harder to say no! I will say, be up front with your particular needs and abilities when you do approach an instructor. I heard a really sad story from a former TR student's mom about an instructor who was all set to teach her daughter until she found out the child had CP and then all of a sudden she refused, saying she didn't have the right insurance. The child's CP is so mild you wouldn't notice it during the school day until you watched the kids in gym class. They weren't looking for therapeutic riding, they were looking at an aged mare to lease for 4H Horseless Horse. I think the mom should have been more up front and I also think the trainer was a jerk - but I can see both sides (call the child "disabled" and you open one can of worms, let her riding speak for itself and don't disclose and you open another...)

Good luck in your search for an instructor. New England should have lots of good options for dressage instruction and has some of NARHA's oldest and best programs for networking.

[Abracadabra]

Sandy Webster is now with Giant Steps in Petaluma CA - WONDERFUL coach, able bodied and disabled, she's a master instructor with NAHRA and sits on the education board for them. Can't say enough about her skills, encouragement, patience, confidence, and horsemanship skills. I miss her like mad - she used to teach us in Ontario - but left to persue other venues in the USA.

[Invite]

I wish I could remember people's names because it's been a while, BUT... back in the mid-90's I volunteered at some shows sponsored by ACORD, which was not specifically a NARHA group but its goal was to organize shows at a national level for riders with disabilities. Some were participants in therapeutic riding programs, others were more interested in paralympic-level competition. The idea, as I understood it, was to "up the ante" and provide a training ground, so to speak, for future paralympic riders. That was also the first year riders with disabilities were included in the NAYRC. Anyway, ACORD seems to have faded away over the years but there are still many individuals involved in therapeutic riding who either teach or compete at the higher levels or could be a resource for people who want to get involved. The names I do remember are Gail Pace and Lily Kellogg in Texas and Sandy Rafferty in MO. Pal-o-Mine on Long Island was also very involved in getting riders to national competitions. I suspect you could contact these people or programs and find out if they have personal/professional contacts in your area. I don't think people realize how many "bridges" there are between therapeutic riding and paralympic riding, especially in the parts of the country where there's a lot of serious dressage.

Approaching it from a different angle -- have you approached your local GMO (dressage group) to network? is it possible to go to some of the bigger shows in your area to sit and watch coaches and riders and scope out styles you like? I'm thinking your best bet is likely to be either a) get a name, check them out informally, watch them teach others, approach them to see if they'd take you as a student, or b) have a friend/acquaintence/COTH person make the contact for you. Some instructors are really unnecessarily reluctant to take a rider with a disability because they're afraid they're going to do some sort of harm or the person will get hurt and they'll lose their farm. Others aren't... sometimes meeting the potential student face-to-face makes it harder to say no! I will say, be up front with your particular needs and abilities when you do approach an instructor. I heard a really sad story from a former TR student's mom about an instructor who was all set to teach her daughter until she found out the child had CP and then all of a sudden she refused, saying she didn't have the right insurance. The child's CP is so mild you wouldn't notice it during the school day until you watched the kids in gym class. They weren't looking for therapeutic riding, they were looking at an aged mare to lease for 4H Horseless Horse. I think the mom should have been more up front and I also think the trainer was a jerk - but I can see both sides (call the child "disabled" and you open one can of worms, let her riding speak for itself and don't disclose and you open another...)

Good luck in your search for an instructor. New England should have lots of good options for dressage instruction and has some of NARHA's oldest and best programs for networking.


Thank you so much. I am working on networking to find an instructor who meets my needs. I am actually planning on attending a clinic with Pintopiaffe next month. I am going to keep plugging away. I appreciate your input :)

[dressagediosa]

This is a really timely conversation, as I've just started teaching a young woman with some MS-related issues. So here's another question - where should a professional interested in learning more about coaching disabled riders look? I've got several friends who ride with Missy and Jessica, and I've done a little coaching of riders with different physical issues, but I've never had any formal training in it.

I want to be the best coach I can for this young lady, and for any others that might come my way, but not sure where to turn. Any pros out there have some thoughts? TIA!

And good on all of you for keeping in the saddle!

[KLS]

The trainers and clinicians I mentioned before have able-bodied students too, and I believe Trip Harting may have still been competing during that time, as well (summer 1995). One thing though; I think it's important to avoid using "real" as a descriptor when you mean USDF-recognized, or an open show-- everyone on this thread is a real person, and to imply that some things are "better" than others is just not a good idea in this context.

the ACORD shows were some of the ones I mentioned as well-- good times. I think my favorite part of the concept was the level of competiton, and the fact that *every* judge I rode in front of was USDF licensed with years of "open" judging experience... I always found my scores very fairly given. Doing eastern nationals at 16 with a 5yr old home-raised horse rising against Team members who regularly show open 3rd/4th or higher was an absolute blast.

I may have made the short list in 1996 but for an untimely spinal fracture. That was when you could still borrow horses for international competiton... I sincerely doubt I'll ever be in that position again, given that those even long-listed now have people shopping in Europe for exquisite horses, never mind the cost of horse travel, etc.... but it was one of the defining periods of my riding, being on equal footing with multi-time Paralympians as a teenager with a Morgan I raised and trained.

As for finding a trainer, I second the idea of talking to your local GMO-- in my experience, many if not umost, trainers actually enjoy the challenge of helping their riders "think outside the box" to accomplish their goals.

[pintopiaffe]

given that those even long-listed now have people shopping in Europe for exquisite horses, never mind the cost of horse travel, etc..

That makes me sad. It makes the playing field as unlevel as it is for the blue collar owner-ammy, if not worse. :(

I can't be the only one breeding specifically for this market, can I?

I started breeding my own when I found it nearly impossible to get a "therapeutic" horse that was also competitive. Those types are few and far between. Lots of folks want to donate horses that are incredibly kind and good natured, but not-so-much dressage horses, and often unsound. It's hard to explain that I can't afford a high maintenence horse--special shoes or expensive joint supps or shots--because the work itself is volunteer. Then you're seen as ungrateful... :uhoh: But the work is also very demanding on the horses. They are often more tired after a half hour or 45 minute lesson than they are after a vigorous schooling with me--I truly think it is because it is mental as well as physical for them. They are SO attentive. And it is harder physically for them with riders who may not be balanced well, or have fine motor skill issues.

My students range from physical disabilities to emotional. So the horse has to be able to put up with the Special Olympics type stuff--wheelchair ramps, spastic motions, motor skill issues... but for my other students, the need to be able to show and be competitive. And then I also need to be able to sell foals to keep *me* in horses to be able to do it. They have to have gaits that are rideable, and yet still competitive.

It can be done. I can't be the only one doing it. Maybe that's part of the equation too, is networking breeders who have suitable mounts to use, donate, lease, etc.

[srg]

I can't be the only one breeding specifically for this market, can I? :(

My goal is to breed horses that have "professional" gaits but are kind enough for a competively-minded amateur to ride. That would probably include a disabled rider, as I have come to learn that the horses can be trained to respond to all kinds of non-traditional aids.

I know that most of the folks who are disabled riders aren't aiming for the Para-Olympics, but if one is, you DO need a horse that's the blend of extraordinary gaits and temperament.

If there's any silver lining in my "cloud" it's that I have a pretty special mare that I've owned since before she was age 3. We had a wonderful relationship together long before I was injured. While I was out of the saddle for 18 months, she had excellent training through all of the Grand Prix movements. For the Grade IV tests, while they are equivalent to the US Third/Fourth levels, the horse needs to be in FEI self-carriage. Many of the para-riders I've met at the Ransehousens are competing successfully in open classes at PSG. I will be showing my mare at open Fourth level in a few weeks and we will see how that goes! :D

And maybe I am breeding the next generation of Para warmbloods. I have just started riding my 3 year old Ruffian x Axiom filly and she seems to be catching on just fine to what I am asking her. I use the whip to back up my left leg aids just as I do my FEI mare. So far, so good!

[KLS]

it's great to hear that future Paralympic equestrians will likely be able to find a suitable horse within the US.... it really *isn't* fair that this whole thing has seemingly become even harder than making the Olympic team.... or maybe that was the point, to make it "equally" hard and therefore somehow more fair?? Grr, I hope not.

[pintopiaffe]

srg, that is awesome. She's such a cool mare. :cool:

And some of it isn't all that different from driving or sidesaddle. Some of course is.

KLS, I know what you're trying to say... It's frustrating enough to just be competitive when you are an average joe, the way dressage gets more and more exclusive. But top that off with perhaps not *even* being able to work 40 hrs (or 50 or 60) because of a disability or illness... it just seems more out of reach. Doesn't mean you have one iota less passion for dressage though.

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

That's why I think there really needs to be some better way to network. Judging from what I know of my own trainer's ex TH students - some stay in the saddle, some not. Some are unable to drive themselves, and, as family situations change as they get older, the opportunity isn't there for them. One of her students - and I've mentioned him before - has been a working student during the summers and is now a working student for the year (he's 25, and wants to make this his life vocation). He himself teaches both disabled and able bodied students.

This thread (and, of course, talking with EAW) has made me realize there is a gap - for adults who "move on and upwards" from TH, and wish to ride and compete as adults, but also for adults who enter this arena when older. They are even less "linked into" the system - what there is of the system. I think pintopiaffe and srg have absolutely the right idea! But this needs to be marketed appropriately (NOT that I am a marketing guru!!).

I know that EAW has discussed having a forum on her site since this is a topic very near and dear to her heart. And I already told her, there's no reason why we can't fundraise in the same way (she'll be 501(c)3 there as well). We need input to be responsive, and I (and others) need educating.

I am still brewing over how to make a clinic/camp happen - where people can showcase their horses (as for pp and srg), discuss with saddle etc manufacturers needs for specific disabilities, possibly even a judges' forum? to make the move between para and non para events more seamless, feedback from clinicians, and a chance to mingle and network. SO much could be done. (In grandiose moments I even think of something like this being a satellite event at a place like Rolex...)

[betsyk]

I think some of this is or has been done -- I'm not really connected with it any more but I try to pay attention when I hear about things happening here in the midwest, and I know there have been several developing rider clinics at Lamplight with educational forums for coaches and trainers. How accessible they are to people who aren't yet at the top of the game - I don't know. How to reach coaches and instructors who don't yet know they want to teach riders with disabilities -- that's the question. I'd think that getting a breakout session at the USDF convention would be a good place to start. Regional USDF meetings or continuing education? I know our GMO has offered the L judge series and instructor certification - piggyback on that somehow? add a half day with a big name like the Ransenhausens? Until people have decided they really WANT to do this, you need to catch them at something they woudl already be interested in going to -- then once they're hooked they'll make the effort to go to something dedicated to the topic.

And for the person who said they've recently taken a student with some MS-type issues and wanted to learn more: you'll learn the most by communicating well with YOUR student and being able to think outside the box and try different things until something works. And network, network, network. And stay open to the thought that what works now might not work in 6 months! If you can keep it in your head that the rider is the expert on their body and you are taking the role of expert on riding and the horse, they can teach you about themselves and you can teach them about riding and everyone comes out of it knowing more than they started with.

[equineartworks]

...finally making my way over here....

I am not a Dressage rider so I have little or no input in areas of Dressage, so please excuse me if I ask stupid questions :) I'm sure Geek will fill me in on some things too ;)

But anyway, I am reading through and feeling more confident everyday that what we are building is the RIGHT thing to build. I have a different perspective than many people with programs because not only do I have MS and secondary autoimmune issues, I also have an autistic child. While she is high functioning, TR was definitely the way to go with her and I am glad I listened to my inner voices and experiences in holding off until she was older and found the right program. Today she a person that I never thought she would be :)

Last night on the news there was a clip about special needs kids learning to ride bikes at a university sponsored program. The specifics escape me and I apologize for that. Anyway, the mother of one of the participants ( a young teen boy with Downs Syndrome) said "he in programs to teach him life skills like doing the laundry and the dishes. I want him to learn to live, there is so much more to life than doing laundry and dishes." And when I heard her say that I literally burst into tears because she summed up what I have been working towards for the past three years in building this program.

There are life skills and there is LIVING. If you can find things in your life that give you joy then they most always have some associated physical and psychological benefit. Riding a horse is like riding a bike. Is it a skill that will define your life? Not always, but is something that gives you WINGS. It gives you an escape and builds a strong partnership between yourself and a creature capable of great understanding, cooperation and most of all...love. It builds trust, respect and self esteem. It goes so far beyond the actual ride. :)

Our program (and I am SO grateful to have Geeks help as part of our BOD) is a life skills program in addition to an equine therapy program. Our younger participants will start from the ground up...they will learn the basic safety and care issues related to equine before they ride. They will go on to learn basic stable management and other life skills. We do hope to turn out some really great riders too! We hope that our "graduates" will leave us and be employable to farms, community groups, and sheltered workshop facilities. Basically, we want to help them to not only achieve life skills...but to achieve a life they enjoy living!

For adults, we will be offering a program to help them come to terms with disability, abuse, rehab and PTS and will also be working with Hospice. I was saddened to find out that many people, young and old, have no place to go when it comes to giving joy, building trust or making a very simple last wish come true. If we can give someone the peace and joy that comes from stroking a soft muzzle or burying their head in the neck of a gentle horse...well...then my life is indeed blessed.

Expanding to include competitive events, focused trainings, clinics and things of that nature was a "someday". But if there is interest (and from the looks of this thread I say there is!) then I think it is something that we are going to look closely at!

And now that you know a little bit more about what is going on, can I bug everyone for some thoughts on a name? lol! I am completely unable to wrap my head around anything! UGH!

[sayyadina]

I don't know if she does a lot with disabled riders, but I used to take lessons with Carol Popp in CT. She has some very well trained schoolmasters, including 2 Lipizzan stallions. She's probably the most classical trainer I've worked with. The only reason I don't ride with her anymore is that I've moved, and the 6 hour drive both ways is a bit much.

I have a cracked L5 vertebra, with sciatica down my left leg and numbness in both my feet. Up until it became too painful for me to continue riding, she was very helpful.

[srg]

Pam Lane at the USEF is the contact person for the para-equestrian activities. Since I've been classified as a para-rider, I am getting regular emails and updates regarding clinics on the east and west coast as well as in the midwest.

Frequently the clinics are geared towards introducing disabled riders to para competitions and have Classifiers (physical therapists) there to determine whether you meet the physical criteria to be Graded. I have found Pam to be infinitely patient and generous with her time in helping me understand how I could get a dispensation to ride in Open classes--this is a possibility even for those riders not classified as para riders.

There is a training session in California in September and there was just one recently at Gladstone, NJ. You can reach Pam Lane at plane@usef.org or at 908.326.1153

[pintopiaffe]

eaw... you just said what I was thinking... "Wings." From the "Horses give us wings to fly" quote... I've been thinking that all along. I don't think it *has* to be an acronym...

[KLS]

one of my favorite quotes is a t-shirt caption: "borrrowed freedom," with a graphic that depicts the handicapped parking symbol morphing in 3 or 4 comic-type panels, into the outline of someone on a horse.

(the full quote is "in riding a horse, we borrow freedom", attributed as best I can tell to a Helen Thomson).

Maybe we can compile a list of quotes and other concepts (like Wings) with which to help name this project.

[equineartworks]

one of my favorite quotes is on a t-shirt captions: "borrrowed freedom," with a graphic that depicts the handicapped parking symbol morphing in 3 or 4 comic-type panels, into the outline of someone on a horse.

(the full quote is "in riding a horse, we borrow freedom", attributed as best I can tell to a Helen Thomson).

Maybe we can compile a list of quotes and other concepts (like Wings) with which to help name this project.

KLS...I think we have a winner. I LOVE this. It is absolutely perfect. My DD loves, my husband loves it and I also use it here at our farm, as in Borrowed Freedom Farm, for the programs we offer here. I think this is it...I can picture the logo, I can picture the sub-programs like SPROUTS (thanks Chocomare!) and Carrots, and WINGS! Which I love too PintoPiaffe.

I know Geek will like it too :) So will our other partners. I think we have it, and it is perfect timing too. We are meeting with our potential host facility tonight after work!

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

Yes I DO like it!! See? I TOLD you to come on over here!! Plenty of fodder as you get the programs up and running...Lori T needs to come as well, as she gets her program going.

Now we can start networking!!

[KLS]

Happy to help get somethng uber-cool on its way! Make sure to keep us updated.

If you google the quote and use Google Images, you'll get some great results to help with defining logos, promo materials, etc. (That's what I had to do to find the proper spellling for the attribution, and I just wandered through some of the results while I was there).

[Invite]

This is a really timely conversation, as I've just started teaching a young woman with some MS-related issues. So here's another question - where should a professional interested in learning more about coaching disabled riders look? I've got several friends who ride with Missy and Jessica, and I've done a little coaching of riders with different physical issues, but I've never had any formal training in it.

I want to be the best coach I can for this young lady, and for any others that might come my way, but not sure where to turn. Any pros out there have some thoughts? TIA!

And good on all of you for keeping in the saddle!

I cannot tell you where to learn more about teaching the disabled. I am not a pro, but I may be of some help. I have neuropathy which may be a result of primary progressive MS...long story and of no importance here.

Here is what I look for in a trainer:
-I want someone who is not unapproachable, but is a "high end" trainer. I have the desire to learn just as much as an able bodied rider.

-If you have a good school horse, offer lunge lessons. I have issues with my legs and left arm/hand. Good lunge lessons help people with their seats. This is of huge importance when a rider has leg weakness and or numbness. If you have your seat, you can do a lot.

-If you have a good schoolmaster, teach your student how to "push the buttons" to get the movements. You may have to be very hands on and place the student's legs where they need to be. Help the student find methods to get her legs where they need to go to "push the buttons".

-I think each disabled student is different and will require you to change your teaching style. Sometimes, you may just have to improvise.

-Understand that if you are telling the student to use more inside rein and outside leg, but there is no difference, it is not because the student is not listening or trying, it is because the rider might not be able do it.

-Remember the para/disabled student is a tenacious person who is fighting the odds for the love of riding. While the student might not progress as quickly as other students, take into account that your para student is just as, if not more, dedicated to riding. We face pain and frustration just to get around on our legs.

-If your area offers para shows, be willing to go and coach your student if needed.

-Empathize, but don't coddle.

-If you do have a schoolmaster, provide a comfortable saddle and a bucking/grab strap.

It sounds as though you are willing to work with para type riders. I commend you for that. I can see where it would be frustrating in some instances, but people who are willing to ride through pain and lack of movement are indeed serious riders. If you are truly interested in teaching riders of all types, you will be a great asset to the dressage community.

I hope my rambling on was of some help to you. Best of luck!

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

Invite - not rambling. What you said is true for all serious riders. It should be a mantra.

[KLS]

well said, Invite!

[Ellie&Werther]

Amen Invite! I've had trainers on both ends of the spectrum, when I was a junior I had those who were too afraid to let me do anything, and as a result I got really frusterated. Then, the trainer prior to the one I have right now, which prompted my switch from hunters to dressage, thought my communicating my need to take things slow with a horse that was new to me was back talk and disrespectful to her. Her words to me were "I don't understand why you are doing this". With my Cerebal Palsy I was lucky to compete at 2'6, I never would have made to the AAs or the AOs, but I just love to ride. I also love to show, I'm a sucker for the all the tradition and pomp and I enjoy the challege, even if I am not competing at the upper eccelsons. I am really lucky in my current trainer, in that she gets that I like to pushed, but she also listens to me when I tell her something isn't working for me. She also gets that even though Werther can do I-1, she doesn't think he is "wasted" on me doing training level, I really feel my old trainer felt my horse was wasted on me, because Werther is a talented jumper, and I couldn't ride up to his level so to speak.

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

I think the best is when you have a trainer that doesn't focus on what you can't do, but helps you explore all the things that you could do.

[equineartworks]

I cannot tell you where to learn more about teaching the disabled. I am not a pro, but I may be of some help. I have neuropathy which may be a result of primary progressive MS...long story and of no importance here.

Here is what I look for in a trainer:
-I want someone who is not unapproachable, but is a "high end" trainer. I have the desire to learn just as much as an able bodied rider.

-If you have a good school horse, offer lunge lessons. I have issues with my legs and left arm/hand. Good lunge lessons help people with their seats. This is of huge importance when a rider has leg weakness and or numbness. If you have your seat, you can do a lot.

-If you have a good schoolmaster, teach your student how to "push the buttons" to get the movements. You may have to be very hands on and place the student's legs where they need to be. Help the student find methods to get her legs where they need to go to "push the buttons".

-I think each disabled student is different and will require you to change your teaching style. Sometimes, you may just have to improvise.

-Understand that if you are telling the student to use more inside rein and outside leg, but there is no difference, it is not because the student is not listening or trying, it is because the rider might not be able do it.

-Remember the para/disabled student is a tenacious person who is fighting the odds for the love of riding. While the student might not progress as quickly as other students, take into account that your para student is just as, if not more, dedicated to riding. We face pain and frustration just to get around on our legs.

-If your area offers para shows, be willing to go and coach your student if needed.

-Empathize, but don't coddle.

-If you do have a schoolmaster, provide a comfortable saddle and a bucking/grab strap.

It sounds as though you are willing to work with para type riders. I commend you for that. I can see where it would be frustrating in some instances, but people who are willing to ride through pain and lack of movement are indeed serious riders. If you are truly interested in teaching riders of all types, you will be a great asset to the dressage community.

I hope my rambling on was of some help to you. Best of luck!

^^^^^^^ :yes:

This just sums up my views on focusing on the ABILITY rather than the disability.

[Invite]

I think the best is when you have a trainer that doesn't focus on what you can't do, but helps you explore all the things that you could do.


Excellent point!!!!

[dizzywriter]

Thorncroft Equestrian Center in Malvern PA has just the type of clinics you guys are talking about. I don't know how local they are to many of you but they really do a great job with all types of riders.

You who've been to Devon may have seen the Mainstreamers, the drill team for kids of all abilities from Thorncroft. It's really a neat place, with room for everyone. There are many clinics offered through the year. The Ransehausen's have cliniced there several times in the last few years.

Thorncroft.org It's worth a look :)

I lesson at Thorncroft. It's inspiring, as is this thread. I have some issues that are disconcerting, but not disabling and am in awe of people who push past much worse things to pursue their passion for horses. Kudos to you all.

[whicker]

Dressagediosa,

Another way for you to learn more about how to teach us is to ask a Physical Therapist with advanced training in orthopedic and neurolgical specialties. If you look for one who is also a horseperson, it makes the translation even easier.

At the USDF convention last December, Hilary Clayton and Narelle Stubbs gave a presentation on the rider's issues. You could visit them. I also have a super Middleburg PT that I think you would really like, too.

I'll send you a pm

[TikiSoo]

Just want to add a slightly different point of view:
I have an auto immune condition that I don't really like talking about. I usually just say "arthritis" to simplify, everyone understands that.

Riding is actually my physical therapy, it's low impact, helps build muscle, balance, aerobic health, etc. I can generally ride anywhere from 30 minutes to 2 hours, but average an hour every other day.

I am looked down upon by the "show" people at my barn. They act as if I'm retarded when I fall from an unexpected buck. One person actually said, "You just go around the ring in circles, what good is that?" My response is a blank stare.

I understand some people don't realize I'm physically limited, I look like a healthy athletic woman. Those who do know probably forget. But it's very frustrating and hurtful when I'm chided for posting in a western saddle, or wear jeans instead of breeches, or that my horse isn't fancy.

My comfort is a more important factor than looking good. I can get more benefit out of a 30 minute walk than 10 minutes of hard riding. I'm thrilled I'm still walking and not wheelchair bound like I expected to be by this point in my life. I credit horses for that.

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

TikiSoo - these people are morons. So sorry you have to deal with this.

[Eventer55]

I hope you don't mind, but I would like to share something about the Pal O Mine program. They're on Long Island and they do incredible things with disabled children. The article is heavily edited. I do not work for them and do not mean for this to be advertising in any way, it's just a story about some horses.


Everyone’s A Winner
Everyone’s a winner " Truer words were never spoken. The title is a quote overheard at a recent Pal O Mine horse show for riders with disabilities. One woman commented to a volunteer that "there just isn’t the same tension here as at a regular show" The volunteer responded "that’s because everyone’s a winner. "
Now after attending a Pal O Mine show. I know it’s true. On Sunday , October 30, I drove to Pal O Mine Equestrian Center in Islandia to pick up two horses and bring them to Paard Hill Farms for the day.
It’s difficult to put into words how much goes into making one of these shows work. I could start with the volunteers or I could talk about the riders or the people who run Pal O Mine, but I think I’ll start with the horses. After all they are the ones who give us wings to fly when we can’t walk and sight when we are blind. They are the ones that never question their station in life and never cease to give back the love we need.

On this Sunday 200 people including riders were in attendance for the Pal O Mine horse show. Sixty riders with disabilities competed in dressage, equitation and gymkhana type exercises. Ten horses with the right stuff and the gift of kindness allowed these riders to compete.
They are not fancy well bred Thoroughbreds or German Warmbloods, but the unsung heroes that do the impossible. They are fearless, steadfast and gentle. They are 1700 pounds and 17 hands high or 14 hands and 800 pounds. They are here to serve and serve they do.
In the final analysis, when they cross the Rainbow bridge they will be greeted by the likes of Secretariat, Bold Ruler , Ruffian, Alyadar and Spectacular Bid. No doubt , Bold Ruler will humble himself in their presence.
They will Pass by the right hand of God but their hooves will not ring with the sound of an anvil, their nostrils will not flare and they will not boast of their accomplishments . They will nuzzle each other with a gentle touch and quietly pass by. They have arrived.

They will sleep in lush pastures and drink from crystal brooks and they will wonder where the children are.

They will breathe the soft night air and their hooves will tread softly on green moss and they will wonder where the children are.

Their coats will gleam and their manes will flow in the slightest breeze and they will wonder where the children are.

Their oats will be poured form a golden chalice and they will never wear a halter and they will wonder where the children are.

They will wander without fences to roam among the purple hills and they will wonder where the children are.

And so they will once again pass by the right hand of God and ask, "May we see the children?" And God will say "Yes, you may." So, they will return to the earth and they will be found among the slaughter horses just before the gavel falls. They will be found tied to a tree in a backyard with no food or water. They will be found at a vets with a broken leg. They will be found wandering alone, but what’s important is they will be found and returned to Pal O Mine equestrian center. They will welcome the senior feed and plastic buckets their reward is the work they do and the love they give.
Their names are not etched in stone and they will not be buried at Claibourne Farm or at the infield at Belmont. The Buddhists call them Bodhisattava, the Christians call them angels; no matter what they are, they have a job to do and they do it well.
Pal O Mine has given life to those who did not have one, it has brought laughter to children who did not speak. The noble horse has given life to those in need and I believe that from the back of a horse a small child can rule the world.

As a side note I might mention that during the show one of the parade horse who was there for the ceremony broke away form its rider and careened toward the Pal O Mine horses and riders. People waved their arms and yelled Whoa, but to no avail. Just short of the riders my husband jumped in front of the speeding horse , he veered off bucking and feeling fresh. I looked to see if everything was okay and to my surprise one of the Pal O Mine horses was sleeping in the Autumn sun and another was finishing a qualifying dressage test. The rest were hardly aware that anything was going on. Barely and ear twitched, or tail swished. They are truly the chosen ones.

[Invite]

Just want to add a slightly different point of view:
I have an auto immune condition that I don't really like talking about. I usually just say "arthritis" to simplify, everyone understands that.

Riding is actually my physical therapy, it's low impact, helps build muscle, balance, aerobic health, etc. I can generally ride anywhere from 30 minutes to 2 hours, but average an hour every other day.

I am looked down upon by the "show" people at my barn. They act as if I'm retarded when I fall from an unexpected buck. One person actually said, "You just go around the ring in circles, what good is that?" My response is a blank stare.

I understand some people don't realize I'm physically limited, I look like a healthy athletic woman. Those who do know probably forget. But it's very frustrating and hurtful when I'm chided for posting in a western saddle, or wear jeans instead of breeches, or that my horse isn't fancy.

My comfort is a more important factor than looking good. I can get more benefit out of a 30 minute walk than 10 minutes of hard riding. I'm thrilled I'm still walking and not wheelchair bound like I expected to be by this point in my life. I credit horses for that.


I am so sorry you have been treated that way. I just simplify my disease by saying I have a nerve issue, because if I ever got into the entire thing, people would fall asleep ;)

People who treat you so poorly have never dealt with chronic illness, chronic pain or serious injury. If they spent one day in your shoes, they would be in awe at all you accomplish. Many folks lack empathy and tact. Do your best to ignore them and just keep on riding.

My snotty, uber rich horse owning neighbors always slow down and stare at me while I'm riding. It's totally obvious, too. My ring is rather far from the road, so they slow to a complete crawl. I kind of hope they just think they always catch me during walk breaks!

Just to make you feel a little better, I currently do all of my riding (walk only) in a round pen. I cannot mount or dismount by myself. And worst of all, yesterday I was sweaty, got stuck while removing my sports bra and had to call to my mom for rescue!!! That might be a little too much information, but I thought it might give you a smile :) My neurologist told me to just keep riding as long as I can and that is my plan.

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

Eventer55 - this is why Special Horses not only fundraises for rescues, but for therapeutic riding and Hippotherapy facilities as well. They go hand in hand. Equines that may not be considered "adoptable" by many may be perfect for these organizations. And many who participate in these programs can't afford them, and these programs are not always government funded.

Not every horse can do this. But I think they all have something to offer and teach - but then, we all have different lessons to learn as well. Which is why I am dismayed by what Invite and TikiSoo have posted - you know, it's not always about the ribbons.

(ssshhhhhh....as a card-carrying certified "Ribbon 'Ho" I'm not supposed to say that!!!)

[pintopiaffe]

TikiSoo, those folks ARE ignorant... but they are ignorant as to the GIFT that horses are. They certainly may ride and enjoy their horses, but honestly, they do not see or feel what we see and feel when WE interact with horses.

I'm not usually at a loss for words, ;) But often am when it comes to explaining to people how horses touch us. It's because they touch us in a place beyond words. Words aren't needed. I love dogs, I love cats, but I could sooner stop breathing than not have horses in my life... and to see the amazing and sometimes miraclous things the horses can do with people... it is incredibly humbling.

Some of my most profound experiences with horses and special students has been with sexually and physically abused students. In an hour and a half session we may ride ten or fifteen minutes--their choice, more if they want--but generally it is the interaction that is so incredible. A couple will forever haunt me. :sadsmile:

Physically, the motions of the horse are gentle and mimic the motions of walking. The rhythm and motion stimulate the thyroid somewhat. (I have a cite for that somewhere) The touch/pressure/warmth boost seratonin and other hormones. There are major and more subliminal physical positives.

And *we* know that, and appreciate it. To me, it's like when everyone's driving down the road, and there's a ginormous rainbow, and most folks don't even notice it, not to mention see it and enjoy it. Me, I pull over when I can. Because it's something to treasure. For me, it's the same. I am so moved and humbled (as a "teacher" ) by the equine teachers. Their generosity, kindness and wisdom blow me away. What a blessing to KNOW that and revel in it. ;)

My neurologist told me to just keep riding as long as I can and that is my plan.

I like your neurologist. ;)

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

Maybe this is the right place to post this. Kind of voodoo, kind of zen, maybe nutso crazy.

Last night, I went to my first yoga class to help me breathe better and become more supple. The instructor told the class to "honor their unique bodies and spirits." And I have to tell you, with the exception of one of the participants' 13 year old daughter, none of those bodies (including mine) was anything to write home about. But it got me to thinking - way back, I did tae kwon do, and you would always bow to your sparring partner to show respect. And I thought - if you honor your adversary - shouldn't you honor your partner? even more so than your opponent?

So, when I went to the barn, I took that concept with me - that I was honoring who my horse is, and what he gives to me. And it truly made the evening that much more special.

[pintopiaffe]

Kind of voodoo, kind of zen, maybe nutso crazy

Zen maybe, not nuts. ;)

At least in my world.

[dressagediosa]

Great post, Invite! Thanks for sharing it.

Hey TikiSoo, I was recently at the R1 Adult Team Championships, and some riders at T-shirts that read "I (heart) watching people ride around in circles." I really wanted one! Maybe we could get some made. :)

[Invite]

We all need one of those tee shirts! They would suit many of us ;)

[Piaffing]

I am a Para rider. I have a Syrinx due to a car accident almost 6 years ago. I loast a lot of use of my left arm so I use a loop attached to the rein. I also have no feeling in my feet, but I can still use them. I have had to adapt and change. I knew how to do everything up to Gand Prix before my accident, now I just change it slightly in how I ask.

In looking for a coach, you want to find one that will work with you. You want someone that will adapt to finding new ways in using the aids. Core strength is your friend. I have a ground person that works with me once a week and my coach when I can afford her.

[whicker]

Piaffing,

Please will you tell us more? what is a syrinx? How do you use the loop on the rein? I was thinking about putting both reins in one hand. Anyone tried it? The spanish riding school has that solo ride of the head rider where he holds all the reins in one hand and a willow branch straight up like a sword in the other hand.

How do you change your cues? How do you keep your feet in the stirrups?You can pass on whatever has worked for you and we will be sooo grateful!

how did you find your instructor? What special training makes a difference? we would like to find whoever is considered among the best and then ask them to clinic or symposium.

Thanks for sharing with us!

[Carol Ames]

excellent:yes: description:yes:! now, where do we find all:confused: that? Sally Swift spent a lot of time at Thorncroft one:yes: fall, when I was her ":cool:apprentice:lol:; levels varied considerably in both hoses and:yes: riders, though , I believe there is one rider/ trainer/ ParaOlympian there who, is a dressage judge and Centered Riding instructor, and paraOlympian; of course she keeps her own horses at her farm in N. C. where, she has an indoor arena and rides several horses each day :cool:

[Piney Woods]

It's called NARHA. Go to NARHA.org and you can get the names of Registered or Master NARHA Certified Instructor in your area. We are trained to help you and NARHA has high safety standards. Two instructos who come to mind in your area are Mandy Hogan at Windrush Farm in Boxford, Ma and Isabella (Boo) MacDaniel at Pony Farm in Temple, NH. Both farms offer able and other abled riding instruction. Both have excellent horses and facilities and both are NARHA Premier Centers. Both of these ladies are NARHA Master Instructors and have had scads of personal show and training experience. I know both of them personally and can give each an excellent recommendation. Mandy works with Marge Kittridge, who I believe helped start the para Olympics. Feel free to PM me if you have questions, want more information or want my name as an intro (although they will welcome you without it).
Mandy Hogan www.windrushfarm.org (http://www.windrushfarm.org)or (978) 682-7855
Isabella (Boo) MacDaniel www.ponyfarm.com (http://www.ponyfarm.com)or (603) 654-6308
I understand the bra thing as I have two frozen shoulders, a bad hip and am putting off knee replacement. The knee could be fixed but I have run out of options with the shoulders. I can only mount with a mounting block and am stiff as a board but my riding is my sanity so I understand that too.
Good luck. Call one of these super nice people and find some solid lessons and support.

[TikiSoo]

Piaffing,
How do you change your cues? How do you keep your feet in the stirrups?

Not directed to me, but you bring up another interesting point, I had forgotten all about. Almost all the cues I have taught my horse are "unique" to us based on my ability or lack of.
Teaching voice cues by lunging has helped tremendously. Once I'm "on board" I reinforce the voice cue with a particular leg position or movement and most times she's understood.

I have very little strength with my legs, so many cues are shifting weight or leg position: right leg forward, left leg behind to circle to the left....normal. But if I want to canter, I jiggle my left foot.

My last pony, the "canter" cue was taking up a little strand of mane at the wither. The problem with "custom cues" is that you can never sell your horse!

[Wayside]

I am so sorry you have been treated that way. I just simplify my disease by saying I have a nerve issue, because if I ever got into the entire thing, people would fall asleep ;)

People who treat you so poorly have never dealt with chronic illness, chronic pain or serious injury. If they spent one day in your shoes, they would be in awe at all you accomplish. Many folks lack empathy and tact. Do your best to ignore them and just keep on riding.

My snotty, uber rich horse owning neighbors always slow down and stare at me while I'm riding. It's totally obvious, too. My ring is rather far from the road, so they slow to a complete crawl. I kind of hope they just think they always catch me during walk breaks!


This is so true. I have Ehlers-Danlos syndrome, which is not something I'm going to try and explain to every passerby either. And I look normal, so people do have a hard time understanding why I can't do all the things that they do sometimes. I love the letter to Ann Landers written by someone who'd had back and knee surgeries, but looked to be healthy. One day when she used her parking placard in a handicapped space, a man approached her and said, "You certainly don't look handicapped to me. You should not be parking in that space." She replied, "And you, sir, look intelligent, but I guess looks can be deceiving." :lol:

"The Spoon Theory" by Christine Miserandino is a good short story that's worth reading, if you haven't already. http://www.butyoudontlooksick.com/the_spoon_theory/


Thankfully my co-boarders are really nice people, and they pretty much just accept my weird habits. Like all the walking. I do that, too. Both for me and my horse. Since I'm usually achey, and she's a little sensitive and tense, we always walk around in hand for a while before I get on. And then we have an incredibly long walk warm-up. There have been times that people have come in and completed their whole ride within my walk warm-up :lol:

And I fall off my horse more than anyone else I know. My joints are very flexible, but unstable, and I have decreased proprioception. Luckily, I can feel where my appendages are, it's just sort of sloppy and imprecise. Fortunately the people at my stable who have seen me fall have always been very kind, and not insulting.

[Invite]

This is so true. I have Ehlers-Danlos syndrome, which is not something I'm going to try and explain to every passerby either. And I look normal, so people do have a hard time understanding why I can't do all the things that they do sometimes. I love the letter to Ann Landers written by someone who'd had back and knee surgeries, but looked to be healthy. One day when she used her parking placard in a handicapped space, a man approached her and said, "You certainly don't look handicapped to me. You should not be parking in that space." She replied, "And you, sir, look intelligent, but I guess looks can be deceiving." :lol:

"The Spoon Theory" by Christine Miserandino is a good short story that's worth reading, if you haven't already. http://www.butyoudontlooksick.com/the_spoon_theory/


Thankfully my co-boarders are really nice people, and they pretty much just accept my weird habits. Like all the walking. I do that, too. Both for me and my horse. Since I'm usually achey, and she's a little sensitive and tense, we always walk around in hand for a while before I get on. And then we have an incredibly long walk warm-up. There have been times that people have come in and completed their whole ride within my walk warm-up :lol:

And I fall off my horse more than anyone else I know. My joints are very flexible, but unstable, and I have decreased proprioception. Luckily, I can feel where my appendages are, it's just sort of sloppy and imprecise. Fortunately the people at my stable who have seen me fall have always been very kind, and not insulting.

You are lucky to have such great barn mates. I love the Ann Landers thing. That totally cracks me up!!! I have to have my cell phone with me at all times, as I sometimes fall and can't get up. It is funny at times. I've decided I have to have a sense of humor about my disability. It's one of those laugh or cry situation and darn it, I am going to laugh.

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

T
Since I'm usually achey, and she's a little sensitive and tense, we always walk around in hand for a while before I get on. And then we have an incredibly long walk warm-up. There have been times that people have come in and completed their whole ride within my walk warm-up :lol:


Wayside, at my barn, this is the way that we often do warm ups! It is a terrific way to start to connect and "feel" your horse. And you can do a phenomenal amount of great work at the walk.

[Piaffing]

Piaffing,

Please will you tell us more? what is a syrinx? How do you use the loop on the rein? I was thinking about putting both reins in one hand. Anyone tried it? The spanish riding school has that solo ride of the head rider where he holds all the reins in one hand and a willow branch straight up like a sword in the other hand.

How do you change your cues? How do you keep your feet in the stirrups?You can pass on whatever has worked for you and we will be sooo grateful!

how did you find your instructor? What special training makes a difference? we would like to find whoever is considered among the best and then ask them to clinic or symposium.

Thanks for sharing with us!

I'm more than happy to share. A syrinx is a fluid filled cyst that is in the spinal cord putting pressure on the nerves. It usually effects the arms and then the legs etc...

The loop on the rein is attached using a Conway buckle on plain reins with holes punched at even intervals. I feel my contact with the reins in my elbow and shoulder. So far my feet aren't too bad. I feel that my feet are in the stirrups by the amount of pressure I can feel with my knees.

I use my wieght more as an aid now especially for lateral movements. I try to be as light and direct as possible with my aid.

My ground person I have known and worked with for over 25 years. Sometimes Terry forgets that I have to do things differently, like I can only carry my whip in my right hand. My coach Karin Davis, I heard great things about her so I gave her a try. I didn't know when I started with her if she was willing to work with a disabled rider. She has been wonderful. Orginally from Australia she had lent her Grand Prix horse Mighty Heights to a rider in the Sydney 2000 Paralympics. Last year she lent me this horse for a competition.

You don't have to have a coach that has worked with disabled riders, but one that is open minded to coming up with new ideas.

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

Piaffing - I checked out your website - fabulous.
And look everyone - she sells Piaffing Ponies to help support her efforts to represent Canada at the ParaOlympics.

I think these would make awesome holiday gifts...like for Secret Santa...

What's the current exchange rate for Canada-US?

[Piaffing]

Thanks DressageGeek. I love making these ponies. I'm currently updating my website and will be using PayPal, so the conversion into US funds will be easier.

I have to add in my new horse Zoey and change my last horse Curzon as I have sold him.

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

Well, let me know, because otherwise I would send a check! And given the volatile economy..!

[whicker]

Piaffing,

The ponies are adorable! They will make super gifts or prizes.

On your website, you talk a bit about your paralympic efforts. What classification do you ride? What is an Equine Canada Certified level 1 coach? I don't know your system, please explain. At what competitions are you planning to ride? We would like to follow you to cheer for you! Do you come to the US for competitions?

I will send you an email, too.

[Invite]

What a fantastic idea to sell those adorable ponies!!! I hope you are able to represent Canada. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.

You are certainly an inspiration :)

[NeverTime]

Almost all the cues I have taught my horse are "unique" to us based on my ability or lack of.
Teaching voice cues by lunging has helped tremendously. Once I'm "on board" I reinforce the voice cue with a particular leg position or movement and most times she's understood.

I have very little strength with my legs, so many cues are shifting weight or leg position: right leg forward, left leg behind to circle to the left....normal. But if I want to canter, I jiggle my left foot.

My last pony, the "canter" cue was taking up a little strand of mane at the wither. The problem with "custom cues" is that you can never sell your horse!

Becca Hart, the reigning US Para champion, has a condition called familial spastic paraplegia and, like you, has very little strength in her legs. With her horses, she too developed a whole voice cue system to help teach her horses more advanced dressage -- one type of cluck to change the gait, another type of cluck to add more oomph within it, that sort of thing. There was an article about her in Practical Horseman earlier this year that went into some of that.
She's now competing at 4th/PSG and found along the way that the movements were getting too complicated to have a whole second "vocabulary" for every one of them, but says she still relies on that system of clucks and taps with the whip when her legs quit on her and she temporarily goes "full paralyzed." Pretty dang cool.

[Piaffing]

Thanks everyone.

EC stands for Equine Canada. The exams consist of a written, practical, riding incuding jumping and teaching a lesson. Level 1 is for teaching novices, Level 2 is geared more towards competing and Level 3 is speacialized in Hunter/Jumper, Eventing or Dressage.

I want to be able to compete soon with my horse Zoey, but I need to find a job. I'm so seriously considering coaching full time. I love teaching.

Anyone that wants a Pony email me at cariba@sympatico.ca

[myvanya]

OK....so two different subjects for my post....first...I sympathize with those who get the "but you don't look sick"- I have Rheumatoid Arthritis and since I am still pretty athletic as much as I can possibly drag out of myself and I am only 24 but look younger, most people give me a blank stare and then, "but you're too young to have arthritis and you don't look sick" when it comes up. It sidelined me from riding almost entirely for 2 years though before it was diagnosed. Now I am getting back into riding though with the 2 most wonderful horses in the world. I do both jumping and dressage though I doubt I am considered para really...I am for the most part pretty able bodied still...just deal with a lot of pain and am starting to get some nodules and such. I have to say that I struggle with not being frustrated at how much not riding and just the pain and stifness had pushed me back in my riding from where I was before it really started. Does anyone have any tips on that? I do my best to be happy with what I can do, but maybe its because other people don't see the disease and they expect me to be at the same level I used to be- but I used to jump over 4'9" on my 14.3 hand horse....now I struggle with 3'6". I should be happy I can still do it at all....I guess a lot of it may just come with maturity.:)


The other part is a bit more of a question I guess. My sister was recently injured in a firearms accident. After the accident there was a clot in her spinal column that wasn't caught quickly and worsened the damage caused by the bullet (it had lodged in a lower cervical vertebrae but she had been regaining feeling until the clot hit). Now she is paralyzed from about the bottom of her ribcage down....does anyone on here know how feasible riding again would be for her? She rode before the accident and still has her horse who is super well trained (all our horses have been used in therapy situations); she is able to sit up unassisted, but has no feeling in her legs. I know she could probably drive, but she really likes riding more but I wasn't sure if having no feeling at all in her legs made it impossible. I know certain things wouldn't work....but don't know if someone more experienced with that level of injury might have some insight.

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

This is exactly why this thread is so useful!

This is the kind of networking that we need. We'll get there!

[myvanya]

I should probably add....my sister is in Idaho...near Boise so if there are any good programs near there that could help her I would love to know about them...I am in Colorado so it is harder for me to do research on things like that aside from google and a phonebook.....I am hoping she will come out here but that is a work in progress.

[Invite]

Myvanya,
Don not feel as though you aren't disabled enough to belong here. I have a friend who suffers from RA. Some days she can do a ton, but other days she can barely get out of bed. When I did not realize she had RA, a person who knew she had RA actually had the nerve to say to me,"If Miss X wasn't so lazy and rode more often she could be a really good rider." I was floored by the comment at the time, but the person who said this to me lost any and all respect I had for her once I found out "Miss X" suffered from RA.

I rode jumpers, but I couldn't even ride in a close contact or jump a cross rail now. I resent that. It is 100% normal to resent the fact that you are unable to ride at the level you once did. I'm happy that I can still ride, but that does not mean I don't resent the obstacles that have been put in my path. Being resentful is normal, but I think you eventually become more accepting of your disability and your limitations.

As far as people saying you look fine and you don't look sick, forget about them. You know how you feel and that is all that matters. I get so aggrivated when people tell me I look like I'm moving around better. It's as though they don't understand the pain. Just because I look like I'm doing better does not mean I feel better.

I'm not sure about your sister, but I am sure there is a place that can help her ride again!
Best of luck to both of you :)

[myvanya]

Myvanya,
Don not feel as though you aren't disabled enough to belong here. I have a friend who suffers from RA. Some days she can do a ton, but other days she can barely get out of bed. When I did not realize she had RA, a person who knew she had RA actually had the nerve to say to me,"If Miss X wasn't so lazy and rode more often she could be a really good rider." I was floored by the comment at the time, but the person who said this to me lost any and all respect I had for her once I found out "Miss X" suffered from RA.

I rode jumpers, but I couldn't even ride in a close contact or jump a cross rail now. I resent that. It is 100% normal to resent the fact that you are unable to ride at the level you once did. I'm happy that I can still ride, but that does not mean I don't resent the obstacles that have been put in my path. Being resentful is normal, but I think you eventually become more accepting of your disability and your limitations.

As far as people saying you look fine and you don't look sick, forget about them. You know how you feel and that is all that matters. I get so aggrivated when people tell me I look like I'm moving around better. It's as though they don't understand the pain. Just because I look like I'm doing better does not mean I feel better.

I'm not sure about your sister, but I am sure there is a place that can help her ride again!
Best of luck to both of you :)

Thanks....I actually just switched from a pancake saddle to a really cushy saddle partially becauseit fit me better and partially because of the RA. I am definitely in the some days I can do everything and other days I have to drag myself to the barn and can barely hold the reins crowd....and trying to be somewhat accepting of it but still push past it. I think I have gotten to the point where I am happy to be back to riding at all, but I do still resent the obstacles- some days more than others. If it weren't for my faith, my family, and my horses I am sure I would be far more of a mess right now! I do wish I could educate people a little more but I have to admit I just don't have the time and energy most of the time.

Its helpful to know there are others out there struggling against these things too...(even if it woudl be nice if it weren't the case) I think even in my own head sometimes I expect the same things of myself I could do 5 years ago, but it is comforting to know there are other people out there in different and similar situations who are trying to keep going too. Very encouraging. So thanks for the thread :)

[Piaffing]

With work and the right coach there is no reason she can't ride. Lauren Barwick who won gold at the Paralympics is paralyzed from the waist down.

If there is a will there is a way.

[IdahoRider]

I should probably add....my sister is in Idaho...near Boise so if there are any good programs near there that could help her I would love to know about them...I am in Colorado so it is harder for me to do research on things like that aside from google and a phonebook.....I am hoping she will come out here but that is a work in progress.
Myvanya,
I am just outside of Boise, in Eagle. There is a pretty active therapeutic riding program here called Ride For Joy. I don't know if they are active year round, or if they only have a riding program during the summer months. I know they can handle some heavy duty disabilities, so maybe they would be a good resource for your sister.
Let me know if I can help.
Sheilah

[myvanya]

Thanks! I'll check into it and see what we can find. My other sister is out there right now (she is usually here in CO too but is out visiting) so I will see if they might be able to visit/check into it together.

[whicker]

Myvana, Piaffing and IdahoRider,

This is so awesomely wonderful! Exchanging the support and information is why this thread was started. Hurrah for all of us who care!

now perhaps Myvana's sister will have an opportunity to get back on and ride.

Thank you for joining us!

[Invite]

I wanted to bump this thread up in order to maintain the exchange of information. Many of us are stuck between "normal" rider and therapeutic, so we need to keep ideas flowing to help each other out. There aren't many, if any, places that advertise trainers for the NQR. In my area, trainers for sound riders are abundant and there are several therapeutic centers. It seems as though we are caught in a relatively untouched area. Let's keep this thread going!

[whicker]

We migrated over to Ellie and Werther's thread, to network about loaner horses. Now we are back. Nevertime and Piaffing are passing great info. Stay tuned for the next exciting installment!

[Piaffing]

For those that are interested in becoming classified there will be a CPEDI in May of 2010 at Windreach Farm in Ontario.

[whicker]

Piaffing,
I need your thoughts. Pease P.M. me

[whicker]

Piaffing, I sent you an email.

[Invite]

I'm headed to the borrowed horse thread. I think I have created a monster.....ME!!! I never thought there would be so many riders in a position similar to mine. While I wish so many people didn't have to suffer from a lack of normalcy, I am glad we are able to come together on COTH.

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

But it goes beyond that. Whatever skills you acquire, and ways you have to adjust to make things work - that can help everyone. When I broke my hand and was in a cast from fingertip to elbow, I used my elbows to drive my car - which I learned from my post doc at the time, who suffers from rheumatoid arthritis (and her wrists are fused). But even so - sometimes it is just a way of thinking about something, approaching it form a different angle. So I think this is an incredible opportunity to share, and inspire.

[KLS]

... and all this time, I thought no one was normal because there is no such thing. What a boring place the world would be if there were, no?

I'm just glad a bunch of us have found people to swap stores, tips/tricks, etc with on here; it does make one feel much less alone. I'll never forget the (rather odd but comforting) feeling of belonging when I did my first Para show (I was probably 12, riding against 30-40+yr old adults, haha) as compared to the feeling of sticking out like a sore thumb in open h/j eq. (which I know I didn't, I just didn't have lower leg control).

Mercifully, my horses always seemed to make up in the open performance classes what I lacked in the eq, which kept me showing mostly hunters til I was 14-ish. Then my Morgan decided dressage and obstacle trail were his calling, and we set about the Para dressage scene full-tilt boogie. Good times.

Keep me in the loop, you guys; I would love to get back to that again.... and thanks for such a great thread :)

[whicker]

KLS,

Thanks for the vote of confidence! We need your thoughts, please. You have ridden para, so you know more about it. Please share with us. It is so much more fun to ask you than have to re-invent the wheel. although we are a creative bunch, I must say!

So tell us about your experiences. Personally I want to know if you needed a special saddle, and if so, who was the saddler and did you like the saddle?

[Dazednconfused]

My Mom won the PVDA Debbie McDonald Clinic for me. We are going to have a two day clinic in Minnesota. We are still working on dates, right now we are thinking November during the week. Holly Bergay has expressed interest in attending, I'm riding of course, and my trainer who is not a para rider has a spot. With the exception of my trainer we want all riders to be classified as para riders, we are not charing any fees for para riders and we are going to donate the auditor proceeds to the US Para Dressage Team.

Hey that's a name I know! Holly is amazing. I knew her when she was showing her Arabian gelding. She is remarkable!

[Invite]

KLS, thank you for joining us. Please share your para experiences. This is a great place for people with physical obstacles to join forces and help each other.

[KLS]

It’s kind of odd to be the “expert” on this since I haven’t shown much since the mid- 90’s (college and all that, ya know) but I’ll try to give you all an encapsulated version of my experiences.

First, I do have a few posts in this thread with a bit of my backstory. In short, I have spastic diplegic cerebral palsy that effects my legs much more than my arms (though I’ll never be the world’s fastest typist, or a concert pianist). I grew up with horses, and was heavily involved in almost all aspects of the Maryland 4-H horse program… in fact, it was one of the State program/contest directors that introduced me to the whole idea of para-equestrian competition. (He was also the leader of a therapeutic riding program the 4-Hers in his county helped run).

I, of course, had absolutely no idea the level of competition awaiting me, and my county-association-showing self *may * have been a tad cocky. After having my newbie butt solidly kicked in dressage (a W/T test with 10m trot circles and 4-loop serpentines—ack!--on a saintly QH pony who wanted to know when something might be happening, ho hum), I had some redemption in my Eq class, coming in 3rd of (?)9, but not before I lost 2nd by not realizing the difference between my h/j figure 8 and the dressage-style ones (with bend and round circles, LOL) the judge was looking for. Quite the learning curve that day.

As far as tack etc, I tend to prefer a moderately deep seat with substantial knee rolls (though when I switched from my Collegiate Event to a Wintec Pro Classic, the thigh blocks suited me fine), and am of the peacock safety stirrup persuasion. The only other things gear-wise are that I tend to use a breastplate (a holdover from riding little-to-no-withers types, and very handy as the occasional grab-strap for me), and the wedged stirrup pads that are in my irons “backwards” than most— keeping the high side close to the saddle and the low side at the outside of my foot keeps me in contact with the stirrups, and I hear “ouch, my ankles” from anyone else who uses my saddle for an extended period. I’m also never far from an 18-20 inch jumping bat, which I can use as a “gear shifter” if the horse I’m on expects leg aids I can’t give (which, other than kicking and nudging, is all but impossible with the leg braces I wear).

Which brings me to the fact that I am eternally grateful that QH pony was western in a former life; she taught me how to use my seat, weight shifts, and everything BUT my lower leg to ride her…. and that’s also how I started my Morgan. He needed to be able to tolerate leg being there with others on him, but still do what I needed, my way. He wasn’t trained with “custom cues,” per se, but he did require a feeling, accurate ride. (I’ll never forget putting someone up one day so I could watch him go, and hearing, “Wow, I don’t know how you do it! He’s got such a hard mouth! Whereupon I burst out laughing (you could use literally tickle the reins and he’d listen) and proceeded to teach this person how to look up, turn her body, and shift her weight to turn the horse). It was only then that I realized not everyone learns this…

Skipping large periods of time….. Yes, there are politics in para dressage, just as every other USEF division, and much of it seems to be financial. When I started showing para stuff more seriously (and may have had a serious shot at the long list for Atlanta in ’96), you still rode borrowed horses for international competitions, and sometimes nationally, depending on location. Good coaching/training was readily available, and it wasn’t unusual for it to come from my own competitors. I think we all decided to level the playing field as much as possible to push each other and make for better competition overall.

Having been out of the loop now for quite awhile, I’m amazed and rather intimidated by the amount of money para riders are having to front to do this on the international level. It seems to have gone from having the use of a solid 2nd-3rd level horse and being judged with accounting for riding a strange horse for a short period of time, to needing to purchase an FEI-quality horse, and that makes me wonder if the playing field isn’t wholly out of whack again.

As others have said, the folks at USEF Para are great to deal with. They will try their best to answer any questions you can articulate, or they’ll track down someone who can help you answer it. Someone mentioned Hope Hand a while back— super, super rider, and a great lady, even if she did beat my pants off every time.

OK, I’ve definitely rambled enough—time for me to switch to more Q&A mode—ask away!

[Ellie&Werther]

Hey KLS!

What grade of para did you show in?

[KLS]

I wasn't classifed at the time, and the system was being re-tweaked, but I'd venture that I was showing classes that were equivalent to Grade 3.

[Ellie&Werther]

I'm classifed as Grade III, working hard to get to show that level. Got my butt kicked on Training 3 and 4 this weekend. I met Hope Hand when I was classified at the national championships this spring, she is a very nice lady. Also, another question: what is your disability? I have CP, right now i'm struggling to develop enough of a looseness to get my horse more consistently sharp to the aids.

[KLS]

I have CP too, much more involved in legs than arms (technically spastic diplegia)... never, though, did i have a problem with getting my horse sharp to my aids. In my case with that particular horse, it was more about getting the aids "exactly right" so that i got what I had asked for; horse was very sharp, and would routinely do what he *thought* you wanted if it wasn't clear enough for him to understand.

In fact, he nearly got us eliminated from his first test when he mistook the 10m trot circle at B for a hunter courtesy circle, and was all too happy to jump out at K/E. Luckily he only got 3 hooves off the ground before I turned him around my leg... but I think my test sheet had a 4 and "deep in corner!" there :)

[Ellie&Werther]

I have CP too, much more involved in legs than arms (technically spastic diplegia)... never, though, did i have a problem with getting my horse sharp to my aids. In my case with that particular horse, it was more about getting the aids "exactly right" so that i got what I had asked for; horse was very sharp, and would routinely do what he *thought* you wanted if it wasn't clear enough for him to understand.

In fact, he nearly got us eliminated from his first test when he mistook the 10m trot circle at B for a hunter courtesy circle, and was all too happy to jump out at K/E. Luckily he only got 3 hooves off the ground before I turned him around my leg... but I think my test sheet had a 4 and "deep in corner!" there :)

Our stories seem similar. I'm 23 and just made the switch from hunters to dressage this winter. My new horse is very quiet and I struggle a lot with impulsion, my CP is spastic and affects my left leg and my left hand to a lesser degree. What helped you to learn to get your aids exactly right? I've been working on the lunge and doing lots of transitions, but I've been struggling a lot lately on how to get enough and then just allow.

[whicker]

Newbie question: Why an FEI horse for 2-3rd level test? What makes the difference that requires it? If the horse is going in a higher level frame than 2-3, wouldn't that count against the ride? Are higher level movements used in the freestyle or bonus points for tougher combinations?

[KLS]

I'm 30 (eek! i'm old, LOL)....

As for learning to the aids exactly right, honestly it was mostly trial and error. My horse was not the sort to be happy on the lunge with me on his back, though he may have acquiesced a few times.

This might sound weird, but as far as "concentrating and sttruggling to get it right," I've found over the years that the harder i actually concentrate/fixate on something, the more my spasticity kicks and and ruins things, especially if I'm aiming for relaxation.

I finally discovered that it pays not to concentrate, per se, just "think" about what you want your body (or the horse) to do for a moment or two, almost as if you expect the horse to read your mind. The horse can sense your energy field, and that's a more unadulterated form of communication than trying to fight with your body to make things work; plus, by just envisioning what you want, you give your own scrambled neurons a chance to catch up and figure things out, rather than be forced.to do something.

If that makes no sense to you, I apologize. A series of injuries in college sent me to the doorsteps of 2 PT's, one of whom is also a yogi, and the other of whom does researh in energy work..... it's all rather holistic. ou might want to (re?) read _Centered Riding_, a lot of the images concepts and analogies might help.

[Natalie A]

Is it worth it to get involved and classified if you are nowhere near able to ride at the level your classification would mandate? I would probably get classified as a Grade III or (possibly, but probably/hopefully not!) IV rider--I have a really rare neurological disorder, which leads to all kinds of coordination/balance/vision issues--I have never had access to higher-level dressage horses so haven't done anything above Training Level/some First Level work and am hoping to show Intro this Fall. I will possibly be moving for work in the next year, and might try to look for an instructor who has para-equestrian experience... but I wonder if it's even worth working towards if the cost will be prohibitive? And does everyone own their own horses? Are any of the strong programs/instructors leasing out horses for para riders? Horse ownership definitely isn't in my immediate future, either.

And even though my instructor isn't a "show" instructor, her focus on a Centered Riding approach has really helped me advance over the past few years. I did a little h/j in college, but came back to her after I graduated and now finally have the bodily awareness that I need to compensate for the things I can't do as well.

[kdow]

This might sound weird, but as far as "concentrating and sttruggling to get it right," I've found over the years that the harder i actually concentrate/fixate on something, the more my spasticity kicks and and ruins things, especially if I'm aiming for relaxation.

Oddly, while I've never really dealt much with CP (I was diagnosed very young with a very mild case of it, to the point where it doesn't typically show up in day-to-day activities) this really resonates with me, because it is EXACTLY when I have troubles - if I'm trying to hold something very steady or otherwise concentrating on holding a specific body position, it almost always triggers shakes/tremors. (For example, it took me forever to learn to balance on one leg, because thinking about it would make my weight-bearing leg start shaking and then I'd over-correct. Likewise now I'm in film, the more I think about holding a camera steady, the more my hand shakes.)

I agree with your comment about Centered Riding - if you can find a visualization trick similar to those used in CR, it often helps a lot. (Like with standing on one foot, I do much better if I think about my weight going down through my leg and foot and spreading out into the ground like tree roots than if I think 'okay, I am going to stand on one foot now. I am standing on one foot.') Just keep in mind that the exact thing you need to visualize to make whatever it is work may not be what is suggested in the book - be creative and go with what works for you. :)

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

This might sound weird, but as far as "concentrating and sttruggling to get it right," I've found over the years that the harder i actually concentrate/fixate on something, the more my spasticity kicks and and ruins things, especially if I'm aiming for relaxation.

I finally discovered that it pays not to concentrate, per se, just "think" about what you want your body (or the horse) to do for a moment or two, almost as if you expect the horse to read your mind. The horse can sense your energy field, and that's a more unadulterated form of communication than trying to fight with your body to make things work; plus, by just envisioning what you want, you give your own scrambled neurons a chance to catch up and figure things out, rather than be forced.to do something.

If that makes no sense to you, I apologize. A series of injuries in college sent me to the doorsteps of 2 PT's, one of whom is also a yogi, and the other of whom does researh in energy work..... it's all rather holistic. ou might want to (re?) read _Centered Riding_, a lot of the images concepts and analogies might help.


But this is true for everyone! The funny thing is, when I am showing students in lab how to use pipetting devices for the first time, for example, they always, ALWAYS grasp the handles in a tight grasp and of course they lose all dexterity because of that. The more they want to do it correctly, the more precise they want to be, the harder they make it for themselves. And even though I see this, and understand, I find myself doing the same thing in the saddle. Saturday in my lesson, I could actually feel how my left rib cage "folded in" tracking right - first you have to let the energy flow so you can feel where you're inhibiting that flow...does that make sense?

[Piaffing]

Newbie question: Why an FEI horse for 2-3rd level test? What makes the difference that requires it? If the horse is going in a higher level frame than 2-3, wouldn't that count against the ride? Are higher level movements used in the freestyle or bonus points for tougher combinations?

Higher level movements are allowed in the freestyle. In grade 4 I can do half pirouettes at the canter and tempis every 3 stride. Movements for the grade 4 freestyle can be up to the Prix St George Level. It makes competition stiff.

Freestyles for grade 3 can include all lateral movements and single flying changes.
Grade 2 can include lateral movements at trot and single flying changes.
Grade 1b and 1a can do lateral movements at walk and trot.

[whicker]

Zowie! I have soo much to train my horses to do!:eek:

On excellent days, we can manage 2nd level. This looks like I am going to need a lot more time, education, and endurance. I may go for the oldest Olympian title. There was I think a British lady who won the regular dressage silver medal at age 72.

Better find a photo of her to put on my bathroom mirror along with tips from Kyra Kyrklund's symposium last year at USDF.

Anyone know who she is?

[byrtness]

I am in Southern Maine and am more than happy to work with physically challenged or handicapped riders. I am a Grand Prix dressage rider and have earned my USDF Gold Medal on my special horse that I brought up through the levels myself. I, myself, was in a horrible vehicle wreck 4 years ago, and still suffer damages from that, so I have alot of empathy that many instructors do not have. I know how challenging it is to work with a body that sometimes just doesn't want to cooperate the way we think it should! We often need to find creative ways to work around the issues as best we can. Best of luck and happy days to all of you who are courageous enough and determined enough to get out there and do your best, despite your disabilities!

[whicker]

Byrtness,

Thank you! Invite will be happy to have company. The more the merrier in your neck of the woods. I don't know Maine to tell you where PintoPiaffe is, but she will be a kindred spirit.

[Invite]

I am in Southern Maine and am more than happy to work with physically challenged or handicapped riders. I am a Grand Prix dressage rider and have earned my USDF Gold Medal on my special horse that I brought up through the levels myself. I, myself, was in a horrible vehicle wreck 4 years ago, and still suffer damages from that, so I have alot of empathy that many instructors do not have. I know how challenging it is to work with a body that sometimes just doesn't want to cooperate the way we think it should! We often need to find creative ways to work around the issues as best we can. Best of luck and happy days to all of you who are courageous enough and determined enough to get out there and do your best, despite your disabilities!

OOOOOOO!!!!! I am excited!!! Feel free to PM me if you want, but I would love info about you and your location. I am in Southern NH. I have a nerve disorder which is related to MS...long and involved. I currently own a TB who was schooling 3rd before an injury, who is now just my "practice" horse aka pet, along with 2 promising youngsters. I bought one of the youngsters at 4 months when I saw her walk in a field of horses even though I had gone to try a 4 year old! Do you have any school horses or schoolmasters to learn on? Do you take ship ins? Please PM me with all the info. You sound exciting :) I'd LOVE to chat!!!

[Piaffing]

For those who might be interested and have enough people I do clinics. Because I have to ride a little differently due to my injury, I have the great understanding about trying to do things differently while still keeping the horse correct. Just give me a PM.

[whicker]

Piaffing,

We haven't forgotten about you! Would you like to tell us more about what you like teaching, what levels and experience? You are near Toronto? Let's see that would be 12 hours drive from Virginia. You had suggested that Coth devotees come up for a competition next May and get classified by the International Classifiers. Care to elaborate?

[myvanya]

jumping back in...if anyone knows of any instructors in the Boise, ID area the only therapeutic programs near there only works with kids...and my sister is 28....so I am still looking for a way to get her back on her pony.....

[whicker]

Hi Myvanya,

I wrote Hope Hand, who is the chairman for the para-equestrian outreach committee, about our thread. She is in europe for the European Dressage Championships and will be talking to us when she gets back next week. I think that we will have a frequent poster from the outreach committee, too.

If you go back to NeverTime's post on the borrowed horse thread, there is some info about para that may help you. Here is a link to the committee http://www.usdf.org/about/about-usdf/councilscommittees/paraequestrian.asp

The organizer in Boise didn't make any suggestions? Were you talking to the owner?

[Janet]

Newbie question: Why an FEI horse for 2-3rd level test? What makes the difference that requires it? If the horse is going in a higher level frame than 2-3, wouldn't that count against the ride? Are higher level movements used in the freestyle or bonus points for tougher combinations?

Maybe because in an FEI horse, the 3rd level movements are going to be "confirmed", whereas with a horse that has only competed up through 3rd, then will be less "solid".

[srg]

The Grade IV horses need to be in an FEI frame. As another poster mentioned, the MFS can use movements through PSG. In order to be "competitive" internationally at any Grade, but especially Grades III and IV, the horses are pretty spectacular, as are the riders, and both are "competitive" in open classes, many at PSG.

My mare is training all of the Grand Prix movements and was shown successfully last year at PSG. This year, we have been getting in the mid 60s in the Grade IV Tests the few times we've shown. As a newly disabled rider, I am finding her advanced training a mixed blessing. Although we are getting better understanding one another, my mare has a couple of times offered piaffe and passage at inappropriate times. In one test, during one of the 10 meter canter circles, she started to pirouette and I almost couldn't get her out of that!! She's a bit of a show off and is trying to get me extra-credit points, no doubt!! :D

My point is, that for anyone who has owned or ridden a schoolmaster, it is sometimes hard to avoid pushing the wrong buttons. Add to that, body parts that are not all under your voluntary control and the results might not be exactly what you're expecting! I am fortunate that I have owned and ridden my mare since she was a green broke 3 year old and we know each other well.

I am still having the same issues that most AA's have acheiving success in collection. My girl doesn't always want to work in an uphill balance and we occasionally confuse "speed" with "impulsion." :lol: In the show ring we can have tension, and by golly, I've never been great at walk pirouettes even when both legs worked. You know the drill....

[Piaffing]

Piaffing,

We haven't forgotten about you! Would you like to tell us more about what you like teaching, what levels and experience? You are near Toronto? Let's see that would be 12 hours drive from Virginia. You had suggested that Coth devotees come up for a competition next May and get classified by the International Classifiers. Care to elaborate?

I can teach right up to the FEI levels. I really like working with the student to over come training problems and position problems as most times they are related. I'm just north of Toronto.

The show in May at Windreach is a great opportunity for those who want to get their FEI classification without having to go to Europe. You would have to contact the organizers about having it done.

[myvanya]

Hi Myvanya,

I wrote Hope Hand, who is the chairman for the para-equestrian outreach committee, about our thread. She is in europe for the European Dressage Championships and will be talking to us when she gets back next week. I think that we will have a frequent poster from the outreach committee, too.

If you go back to NeverTime's post on the borrowed horse thread, there is some info about para that may help you. Here is a link to the committee http://www.usdf.org/about/about-usdf/councilscommittees/paraequestrian.asp

The organizer in Boise didn't make any suggestions? Were you talking to the owner?

No- haven't been able to talk to the owner yet since I am doing this long distance. Right now the main thing is finding someone who can help her get back on...checked the nahra website too though and didn't find any programs near her that would work with adults, but it doesn't list instructors. Hopefully she will move out here to Colorado soon though as that would make it far easier.

[whicker]

Myvanya,

Talk to the organizer/owner at Pal-O-Mine Equestrian center in Long Island,New York. They have a website with contact info:

www.Pal-o-mine.org

Ask them for help with resources and tell them about this thread and the number of posts. They are one of the best in the country and should have the network of contacts to help you. I went there when I was doing the classification test for FEI para-equestrian/paralympics. Wonderful people. Let me know how it goes. I can email them if you need extra support.

Sharon Schneidman is the co-coach for the paralympic team. She is based in Colorado, so she may have some thoughts, too.

[Carol Ames]

When you are able to let and allow ;)your horses(s) to move freely, you will find that they do the movements more freely, it is called "nondoing" in Alexander technique; It feels like you are doing less:winkgrin: but, the horses are giving so much more:yes:; It's as if the horses "flow through you:cool:" as a student of mine described it.

[Invite]

When you are able to let and allow ;)your horses(s) to move freely, you will find that they do the movements more freely, it is called "nondoing" in Alexander technique; It feels like you are doing less:winkgrin: but, the horses are giving so much more:yes:; It's as if the horses "flow through you:cool:" as a student of mine described it.

This sounds like a very interesting technique. Maybe having less control of your body, such as my limitations with the use of my legs, causes the rider to HAVE to let and allow the horse to move more freely. Now that I am unable to grip with my legs and rely mostly on my seat, my sitting has become deeper, yet lighter. It is almost as if I am one with the rhythm of the horse. I was always a soft rider, but now my riding just flows and is relaxed. I don't have the ability or disability ;) to be stiff. I know this sounds strange, but this is how it is.

Carol, can you tell us any more about this type of riding? Is it possible that my disability has given me more ability? Thanks so much for sharing. Where can we get more info on this or a list of instructors who teach this method?

[KLS]

Alexander Technique isn't a form or style of riding, but more a system of body awareness and training that is useful to all sorts of people prone to or experiencing pain. Not surprisingly, in equestrian sports, Sally Swift is widely associated w/ Alexander technique, as well as her own priciples.

background: http://www.alexandertechnique.com/

teacher index: http://www.alexandertechnique.com/teacher/

[Invite]

Alexander Technique isn't a form or style of riding, but more a system of body awareness and training that is useful to all sorts of people prone to or experiencing pain. Not surprisingly, in equestrian sports, Sally Swift is widely associated w/ Alexander technique, as well as her own priciples.

background: http://www.alexandertechnique.com/

teacher index: http://www.alexandertechnique.com/teacher/


Thank you for the links! I will definitely check them out. Maybe there will be a teacher near me so I can try it out. Carol's post really intrigued me and your post has made me even more eager to look into the Alexander Technique.

[myvanya]

Whicker- thanks! Sharon is fairly close to where I am so I may talk with her and see if she has any ideas... will also try to contact Pal-o-mine and see if they know of anyone. Still working on my sister to move out here to CO which might make things easier too....I appreciate the help....

[Invite]

I am hoping this bump will put the thread back into a place where people will read it and continue to help each other.

I really wish more trainers would write and tell us why you will or will not work with disabled or para riders.

If you are a trainer with schoolmasters, will you give para riders lessons on your schoolmasters?

Will trainers help their para students teach the student's horse special commands to make up for the lack of body strength/use?

[LoveWay]

Hello!

I just wanted to add to this thread that I work at Therapeutic Riding Center in Northern Indiana called LoveWay. I have shown my own horse through 3rd level and am schooling the PSG with him, so I would be more than willing to help some people get started or restarted in riding at my center! We have 12 therapy horses that would be great to start on, plus we have a lift for wheelchairs for mounting.

PM me or check out our website to learn more!

Erica
http://www.lovewayinc.org

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

I love when people get connected like this!!!

See? I told you it would be a great place to network!!

[Invite]

This is just fantastic the way people are connecting. I am so glad this thread is helping people.

[NeverTime]

Good bump!



I really wish more trainers would write and tell us why you will or will not work with disabled or para riders.

If you are a trainer with schoolmasters, will you give para riders lessons on your schoolmasters?

Will trainers help their para students teach the student's horse special commands to make up for the lack of body strength/use?

I think it's hard to give a standard answer to these questions because all of them depend on so many variables -- the skills of the rider, the disability, the horse... everything.

Depending on the disability, a lesson on a schoolmaster could be a breakthrough or really frustrating for horse and rider alike. Heck, sitting on a UL schoolmaster can be pretty frustrating for MOST riders -- those horse are so fine-tuned to such subtle cues, which is great if you can be that subtle but most of us can't and get all sorts of things we didn't realize we were asking for instead! So if your disability means you can't totally control your left leg or you sit a bit off to one side in the saddle, for example, and you get on a confirmed UL schoolmaster, chances are that the horse is going to think you are asking for things that you are not.

As far as instructors go, I think it depends so much on the person. An instructor who is a good at problem-solving and thinking outside the box, rather that being dogmatic about a specific theory or training progression, is going to be better equipped to help you the whole way 'round. That person may have NO experience dealing with riders with disabilities. Frankly, most of the folks I know from the para team have one or more very important instructors in their pasts who had NO experience with disability but were willing to give it a try and put their own understanding of "how things work" to the test to help these riders adapt and overcome. Unfortunately, another common theme I've heard is how difficult it was to find that instructor who was willing to take a chance. It took a lot of perseverance on the riders' parts, shaking off being turned down by barns/trainers who were worried about potential liability, to find the one who wasn't worried AND had a strong program, strong background and the confidence to do that outside-the-box problem-solving.

Invite, if you can find a copy of the April 2009 Practical Horseman, there's a good (if I say so myself!) profile in there of one of the current para riders with her backstory, including finding instructors and how she figured out a secondary set of aides to help her ride, etc.

[KLS]

NeverTime, thank you! That's more or less what I've been trying to get across, but your explanation is just wonderful.

I've had both experiences with trainers, those who won't take the risk (who knows whether it was a real risk-related choice, or someone just overwhelmed with the whole idea of coaching a rider with a disabilty... that happens too!, and those who agree to jump in and address things as they come up.

Good coaches/trainers are like good horses-- rare, special, and to be treated accordingly :)

[whicker]

Nevetime,
Thank you so much for posting again. I have to go to the library to get the copy of the article. I am still so new at the computer I haven't figured out how to read it online.

Please tell us a bit about Missy. I saw from your posts on the eventing forum that she is competing in Dressage at Burghley this weekend. I understand she is in 14th position after today's dressage. Is there another day of dressage? Cross-country is on Saturday and there is live feed, I think. It would be terrific fun to follow her through such an important competition, and we could learn from her example.

Since I haven't seen her ride and I will be clinicing with her, I am very interested in learning how she rides and handles the situations of competition.

I have the feeling that you are very involved in the para program, too. I think you may be hiding your light under a bushel basket of modesty, too. Please tell us more of your story...

[whicker]

Erica,

Thanks so much for your generous offer!!! Please tell us more about Loveway. DressageGeek has said that you have a wonderful program and super horses. Do you have an east coast barn too? We would love to visit you!

[NeverTime]

Missy is my friend and my coach. She is an incredibly talented rider who herself had a great dressage pedigree - just in case it isn't obvious, her mom is former Olympian, international judge and U.S. chef d'equipe Jessica Ransehousen - but no previous experience with disabled riders before she tackled the para team.
The ladies (and guys) who are actually on the team could tell you more than I about her teaching style with them, but generally, it's "here's what needs to happen" and then coach AND RIDER figure out a way to accomplish that around the disability at hand. She's very willing to school their horses to help feel what is going on and, at times, correct a horse who she can tell has been taking advantage of a disability or imbalance in the rider.
She's been working with the para team since the Sydney Olympics, with the help of great folks like Hope Hand and Sharon Schniedmann. An event rider herself, last year she finished third at the Rolex Kentucky CCI****. Her excellent finished earned her an invitation to try out for the Hong Kong Olympic team. She turned that down because she was already committed to the para program and its riders, which I think says a lot about her ability to put aside a lifelong goal to meet her obligations, and the strength of her commitment to the program.
Right now, she's at Burghley with help from a USEF competition grant. Her horse, Critical Decision (his barn name, "B.G.", stand for "Big Guy," as he's a 17.2 Old/TB cross she's had since he was a 3 year old and brought along to this level), is incredibly talented but struggles with tension, especially when he's four-star fit. Sounds like that hurt them a bit today, and it sounds from the online commentary as if she decided early on in the test to sacrifice an error (posting in a medium trot when it was not allowed) to help him relax and swing in his back. It also sounds like that was a smart move, as the test ended very strong and she now stands in 14th (eventing scores are determined by an overly complex calculation, but they are based on bad points, or penalty points, rather than good points, so a lower score is better, opposite of straight dressage). The second half of the field will do their dressage tests tomorrow. Everyone will go cross-country on Saturday, and then show jumping is on Sunday.
One of the many reasons I respect the heck out of Missy is watching the way she's brought along this horse, her only horse at this level: She doesn't compete him nearly as often as many other riders compete their horses, and when she takes him to horse trials she often wins the dressage but rarely wins the competition. That's because she goes slow and saves his legs for when it really counts, at competitions like Burghley. Please cheer for her this weekend; she's put in all the work to be there, along with helping a whole legion of students, disabled and otherwise, meet their goals.

As for myself, sadly, I'm not hiding any light under a bushel. I am an amateur event rider and I just get to ride with a lot of the para athletes so I see the level of commitment they have and just how competitive the sport is at that level. (I wrote the article I mentioned; I'm not the para athlete it features!) With no disrespect intended to therapeutic riding (I'm a past sidewalker, and many of the para athletes got their starts in therapy programs), it bugs me when people think para is a branch of TR. It's not. It is a competitive riding discipline like any other, and the caliber of riding - and horses - is staggering. They are always looking for new talent and need a deeper field of riders in the U.S., but the idea that anyone with a disability is a potential paraequestrian -- or anyone breeding backyard dressage horses can supply the team -- is slightly off: Yes, you have to have a classifiable disability, but you also had better be a damn good rider who is super committed and, yes, sadly, can either find a sponsor or buy a quality horse to take you to the top.

I love that the word is getting out, because I get the impression that marketing is one of the weak points in the program, and I want to help that as much as I can. I KNOW there are more serious, committed riders out there than Missy gets to see in clinics, and it would be great to get more of them connected. But, again, I realize that level of commitment isn't for everybody, and just because I'm familiar with the Team, I hope I don't come across as implying you either ride around with sidewalkers or represent the USA in international competition. Obviously, there is plenty of middle ground for folks who just want to go out, compete and have fun without dedicated most of their life to the sport!

[Keepthepeace]

I have worked with many riders with disabilities over the past 25 years. Most recently a young woman who was blind and deaf on one side. Didn't bother me in the least, I just adapted her lesson to fit her issues. She rode beautifully in a group lesson and was one of my strongest riders. Apparently her last 'instructor' yelled at her when she got too close to another student and she explained the reasoning behind it (that she was blind in that eye). The instructor actually screamed at her that it was 'no excuse!' She left that barn pronto and ended up at my place. All I did was let the other students know that they needed to let her know LOUD AND CLEAR when they where approaching so she would be aware of where they were and would be able to stay on her path so as not to get too close. I taught her how to turn her head a certain way to be able to pick up the other riders in her field of vision in her 'good eye'. After that we 'forgot' she had a disability. I tend to think of 'disabilities' as more 'riding issues' that there can always be a solution to. Sometimes you have to be a bit creative depending on the circumstance but a little thinking outside the box helps!

[Invite]

I have worked with many riders with disabilities over the past 25 years. Most recently a young woman who was blind and deaf on one side. Didn't bother me in the least, I just adapted her lesson to fit her issues. She rode beautifully in a group lesson and was one of my strongest riders. Apparently her last 'instructor' yelled at her when she got too close to another student and she explained the reasoning behind it (that she was blind in that eye). The instructor actually screamed at her that it was 'no excuse!' She left that barn pronto and ended up at my place. All I did was let the other students know that they needed to let her know LOUD AND CLEAR when they where approaching so she would be aware of where they were and would be able to stay on her path so as not to get too close. I taught her how to turn her head a certain way to be able to pick up the other riders in her field of vision in her 'good eye'. After that we 'forgot' she had a disability. I tend to think of 'disabilities' as more 'riding issues' that there can always be a solution to. Sometimes you have to be a bit creative depending on the circumstance but a little thinking outside the box helps!

While I realize every instructor has his or her own teaching method, I think those who are willing to think outside the box are lacking. Some trainers get so set in their ways that they are unwilling to consider change. I firmly believe every horse is different and every rider is different, able bodied or otherwise. I do not believe one cookie cutter training plan works for every horse. Some will lose their spirit and just give in so they fit into the trainer's mold. Other will rebel and explode, becoming known as dangerous. Humans have different reasoning skills and can walk away, or in my case hobble away, from a bad situation. Horses do not have that luxury.

You are a treasure. Give yourself a giant pat on the back.

[Invite]

Good bump!



I think it's hard to give a standard answer to these questions because all of them depend on so many variables -- the skills of the rider, the disability, the horse... everything.

Depending on the disability, a lesson on a schoolmaster could be a breakthrough or really frustrating for horse and rider alike. Heck, sitting on a UL schoolmaster can be pretty frustrating for MOST riders -- those horse are so fine-tuned to such subtle cues, which is great if you can be that subtle but most of us can't and get all sorts of things we didn't realize we were asking for instead! So if your disability means you can't totally control your left leg or you sit a bit off to one side in the saddle, for example, and you get on a confirmed UL schoolmaster, chances are that the horse is going to think you are asking for things that you are not.

As far as instructors go, I think it depends so much on the person. An instructor who is a good at problem-solving and thinking outside the box, rather that being dogmatic about a specific theory or training progression, is going to be better equipped to help you the whole way 'round. That person may have NO experience dealing with riders with disabilities. Frankly, most of the folks I know from the para team have one or more very important instructors in their pasts who had NO experience with disability but were willing to give it a try and put their own understanding of "how things work" to the test to help these riders adapt and overcome. Unfortunately, another common theme I've heard is how difficult it was to find that instructor who was willing to take a chance. It took a lot of perseverance on the riders' parts, shaking off being turned down by barns/trainers who were worried about potential liability, to find the one who wasn't worried AND had a strong program, strong background and the confidence to do that outside-the-box problem-solving.

Invite, if you can find a copy of the April 2009 Practical Horseman, there's a good (if I say so myself!) profile in there of one of the current para riders with her backstory, including finding instructors and how she figured out a secondary set of aides to help her ride, etc.


I read and enjoyed that article quite a bit!!!

I completely understand your point re: UL schoolmasters. In my case, I am looking for a trainer with schoolmasters. I sit straight in the saddle and my hands are super soft. I have such limited movement of my legs, I need a horse that is ON the aids. I need a horse who will canter from a slight movement of my pelvis. In non horse life, I shuffle about. But for the grace of God (I'm not even religious) I have been blessed with the gift of legs that hang straight and a body that sits tall and straight. Frankly, I cannot believe it. I am more normal on a horse then off.

You have so many good points. What a fantastic post!!! I guess we all just need lots of perseverance and guts!!! Thanks for sharing with us:)

[Ellie&Werther]

Shamelessly giving this a bump.

I'm in a different situation but I find it is working well for my learning experience. I would call my horse a schoolmaster as he is trained to I-1. However, after years as a big eq medal horse and due to his own disposition, he is a little lazy and dull to the leg aids. I think if I had something that was really sharp to the aids right off the bat it might be a little unsafe, especially with my spasticity, the horse my interpret my attempts to balance as shouting "GO". But with my own horse, my trainer rides him once a week and works on making those micro adjustments in his training that will make him more ridable for me. I also spend a lot of my time in my lessons and by myself working to make my horse more sensative to my leg aids, as I develop better balance to sit his big gaits and a quiet following hand, he gives me more and more, but it is a pace where I can slowly change my position and I am a more effective rider.

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

I think Ellie makes a very valid point: in a true partnership, I think the horse knows and adjusts. I am convinced this is possible - analagous to how service dogs learn guidance and other cues specific to the needs of their person. It is just a matter of associating the cues.

I am functionally blind in one eye and have compensated greatly, but I assume there must be a blind spot. I know my horse is aware of this - if I am grooming, for example, even if I've invited and am talking to the person, if they are in that "blind spot" he becomes protective. I certainly didn't knowingly teach him this, but there must be some way I move or behave and he has figured it out. If they can do this, there is no reason why they can't do what Ellie is saying.

[Piaffing]

Shamelessly giving this a bump.

I'm in a different situation but I find it is working well for my learning experience. I would call my horse a schoolmaster as he is trained to I-1. However, after years as a big eq medal horse and due to his own disposition, he is a little lazy and dull to the leg aids. I think if I had something that was really sharp to the aids right off the bat it might be a little unsafe, especially with my spasticity, the horse my interpret my attempts to balance as shouting "GO". But with my own horse, my trainer rides him once a week and works on making those micro adjustments in his training that will make him more ridable for me. I also spend a lot of my time in my lessons and by myself working to make my horse more sensative to my leg aids, as I develop better balance to sit his big gaits and a quiet following hand, he gives me more and more, but it is a pace where I can slowly change my position and I am a more effective rider.

This is why it is so important to have a coach/trainer that thinks outside the box.

[NeverTime]

I think Ellie's post also brings up a great point about just how tough it is to find the right horse. If you want to be competitive, it's got to be a horse with a big fancy walk and trot (at least, depending on your grade) -- but a winning trot is usually very tough to sit, and could be even more so depending on a person's particular disability. So you've got to either find a horse whose movement looks like a "9" but feels like a "5" (because we all know there's a million of them out there -- not ;)) or you've got to find one with the brain to not get too frustrated or take things too personally while you figure it out and condition yourself to sit into his gaits and the two of you learn your own language for communicating with each other.
Sounds like Ellie's found a great partner and has done a lot of hard work to keep their partnership developing even further. Kudos!

[Karma]

It's great to see the enthusiasm and interest on both sides, from those with challenges and those who are teaching. I just wanted to comment, suggest and cajole those dressage trainers out there to submit a presentation to NARHA for their national conference next year. I am part of the conference selection committee and we would love to hear from some dressage trainers that are working with students with disabilities. Many NARHA instructors would benefit from the sharing of knowledge to get students to progress. You all would be such a hit.

[whicker]

Karma,

I think we are a bit shocked by your generous offer! I know Invite and I are...

I think you will hear from the instructors by pm. We hope to encourage more instructors to share with their thoughts with us, as we are geographically so far apart. Where is your conference and when? Please will you tell us about your organization?

I think, one of your founders, Ginny Martin of Borderlands farm on the NY/NJ border, bred and raise my international event horse, Orion. When I first met him, he was being groomed by several kids in wheelchairs. He was only 5 years old then. He was a standardbred/tb/qh combo. She had his full sister, Whelhemina Bailey, who did hunters well and then switched to dressage. She was a Prix St. George horse.

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

And take clips from the clinics too!!

[whicker]

DressageGeek ,

Are you asking for video of the NARHA conference or of the clinics that we are reporting on? Or am I totally confused about your request?

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

Your clinics!!

[whicker]

I will be bringing both of my cameras to Missy's clinic. We will have still and video on dvds. I have to practice with them this week as I haven't wanted to use them for a long time. You will have to coach me on up loading to CotH, and I have learn to edit, too.

Tad Coffin is coming tomorrow with his demo saddles. I hope that his design will fit us. He may be working on a demo for Invite, too. for the clinic. The journeyman saddlers are going to come to the clinic to fit the ontyte stirrups for who ever wants to try them. I am looking forward to hearing what Missy's thoughts are on tack to help the riders.

Liz Olszyk, who is my instructor, is coming to learn more. she has a master's in sports psychology in addition to having made 3 horses from scratch through gran prix. I will pass on whatever new word pictures that lead to the AHA! moments.

I am excited about this opportunity and anxious that my mares and I don't have enough training/endurance/whatever that will be expected. That's why I need the mental help not to fry my brain and be unable to think enough to learn. I try tooo hard and I am tooo hard on myself. Intellectually, I know that Missy will be warm and friendly and not be expecting me to ride the way I did in 1984. But I haven't let go of that expectation for myself. I think the movement and I still expect my body to do it. Unreasonable, right? I wouldn't expect anyone else to do it.

So how about some encouragement, please....

[Invite]

I will be bringing both of my cameras to Missy's clinic. We will have still and video on dvds. I have to practice with them this week as I haven't wanted to use them for a long time. You will have to coach me on up loading to CotH, and I have learn to edit, too.

Tad Coffin is coming tomorrow with his demo saddles. I hope that his design will fit us. He may be working on a demo for Invite, too. for the clinic. The journeyman saddlers are going to come to the clinic to fit the ontyte stirrups for who ever wants to try them. I am looking forward to hearing what Missy's thoughts are on tack to help the riders.

Liz Olszyk, who is my instructor, is coming to learn more. she has a master's in sports psychology in addition to having made 3 horses from scratch through gran prix. I will pass on whatever new word pictures that lead to the AHA! moments.

I am excited about this opportunity and anxious that my mares and I don't have enough training/endurance/whatever that will be expected. That's why I need the mental help not to fry my brain and be unable to think enough to learn. I try tooo hard and I am tooo hard on myself. Intellectually, I know that Missy will be warm and friendly and not be expecting me to ride the way I did in 1984. But I haven't let go of that expectation for myself. I think the movement and I still expect my body to do it. Unreasonable, right? I wouldn't expect anyone else to do it.

So how about some encouragement, please....

Whicker you are so empathetic with everybody but yourself. You have changed my life. You need to focus some of that empathy on you. You accomplished what many people can only imagine accomplishing. You have the knowledge and just need to have someone help you retrain your body to use that knowledge properly. I am hard on myself, too. Fortunately, I have my blue yoga ball also known as Alfred. He walks, trots, canters and has all of his lateral movements. Right now Alfred and I are working on flying changes. I realize this all sounds humerous, but I do actually attempt to use proper aids on my ball and hope the will be there when I'm on a horse. Stop beating on yourself. Treat yourself as kindly as you treat me!!!!

We are going to have an unbelievable time at the Missy clinic. We are going to have FUN and to learn whatever we can. Fun is the most important thing!!!!

[Regal Grace]

I will be bringing both of my cameras to Missy's clinic. We will have still and video on dvds. I have to practice with them this week as I haven't wanted to use them for a long time. You will have to coach me on up loading to CotH, and I have learn to edit, too.

Tad Coffin is coming tomorrow with his demo saddles. I hope that his design will fit us. He may be working on a demo for Invite, too. for the clinic. The journeyman saddlers are going to come to the clinic to fit the ontyte stirrups for who ever wants to try them. I am looking forward to hearing what Missy's thoughts are on tack to help the riders.

Liz Olszyk, who is my instructor, is coming to learn more. she has a master's in sports psychology in addition to having made 3 horses from scratch through gran prix. I will pass on whatever new word pictures that lead to the AHA! moments.

I am excited about this opportunity and anxious that my mares and I don't have enough training/endurance/whatever that will be expected. That's why I need the mental help not to fry my brain and be unable to think enough to learn. I try tooo hard and I am tooo hard on myself. Intellectually, I know that Missy will be warm and friendly and not be expecting me to ride the way I did in 1984. But I haven't let go of that expectation for myself. I think the movement and I still expect my body to do it. Unreasonable, right? I wouldn't expect anyone else to do it.

So how about some encouragement, please....


Good luck Whicker have a fabulous time look forward to hearing what you thought. By the way where is the clinic being held?

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

Whicker, I hope this cheers you up:

(1) I used to figure skate - it was a placeholder for riding, which I could not afford as a post doctoral fellow in Boston on a $15K/yr NIH fellowship. But I was at MIT and they had a FREE ice rink. That is how I started. I took lessons with someone who also coached young girls who were "real" contenders. I went to the Skating Club of Boston, was doing school figures, trying so damn hard, and finally my coach grabbed me by the shoulders, shook me to make me come out of my focus, and said, "WILL YOU RELAX!!!!" And I stared at her blankly, and said, in all seriousness and sincerity, "I understand that I am an adult, that if I was going to get anywhere I should have started two decades ago, that I should be happy I can enjoy the sport...but DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND???? I KEEP THINKING THE FEBRUARY OLYMPICS ARE ONLY A FEW MONTHS AWAY!!!!" At which point her jaw dropped, and then she started laughing hysterically. And she called over her kiddie skaters, the ones with real talent and ability, and made me repeat to them what I had just said to her. She then said to them, " This is how YOU should be thinking!!!" We actually had to stop the lesson as she couldn't look at me without dissolving into laughter.

(2) Some time later I was going to a competition. I thought I had the most incredible practice - nailed every jump, every spin, and I was fast, fast, fast and I had flow! One of the other competitors' mothers (because everyone else was a tween or so, except for the wanna be me!) had taped everybody's practice, and we watched it that evening. I was convinced when mine came on that there was something wrong with the speed - I was so slow, so cumbersome...no. It was me. And I turned to my coach, and blurted out, "How come you don't throw up when you watch me skate?"

So. I had the focus, I had the drive, I did not have the body, nor the talent, nor the wherewithal. I tell you this NOT to imply that all you have is focus, but to let you know how incredible easy it is to not only be too hard on yourself, but to lose perspective as well!

The difference is - you have a partner in all this - your horse. Remember EllieandWerther's comments? Remember the high level rider with asthma (sorry - blanking out on the name!!) whose horse knew when she was having an attack and who would just trot on over to her instructor because the horse knew the rider was in trouble? You aren't alone in your endeavors. Focus on making your horse look and move beautifully. THAT you can do!!!

I know you are going to have the most incredible experience. You have made a generous gift to Invite, there is fabulous kharma surrounding you!

[whicker]

Thank you for the encouragement!

The mental part of riding is such a big aspect of it. I need the "beginner's mind" in order to absorb as much new information as possible. I have found this book to distill much of the training I recieved during the Jack Le Goff era, plus the current brain research.

Thinking Body, Dancing Mind: Taosports for Extraordinary Performance in Athletics, Business, and Life by Chungliang Al Huang and Jerry Lynch.

When I broke my back, this book kept me going and having hope that I could come back. It has helped me to learn the techniques to flow like water around the obstacles in my stream channel.

As DressageGeek has said, I am thinking too far ahead of myself. I need to remind myself the eventor's rule, "jump the fence in front of you, in the direction of the next one." As a rider, I can't go to the WEG next year. Last December, that was a possibility.

Now I am working with my own green horses and my body is changing with each stem cell procedure. I have to create my tack changes and change the training and cues for Wren and Ruby. I have appreciated so much the suggestions that you all have given me.

When I am with my horses, I soft focus and tune to their needs in the present. I will support them in their learning and I will stay with them in the moment. It is easier for me to partner than it is to be just the individual.

It is in the non-riding ramp up time that I stall walk and worry.

[whicker]

Regal Grace,

What a beautiful name! Is there a story behind it?

Missy's clinic is at SRG's farm in Mt. Airy, Md. SRG said there will be more opportunities to clinic with her if this one goes well. This is the first one, and it came about because of this thread. I am so excited about it!

I think Missy will need some TLC after Burghley, too. She made some wise decisions, but it is hard to do it and not feel low afterwards.

Upward and Onward...

[Regal Grace]

Regal Grace,

What a beautiful name! Is there a story behind it?

Missy's clinic is at SRG's farm in Mt. Airy, Md. SRG said there will be more opportunities to clinic with her if this one goes well. This is the first one, and it came about because of this thread. I am so excited about it!

I think Missy will need some TLC after Burghley, too. She made some wise decisions, but it is hard to do it and not feel low afterwards.

Upward and Onward...


....name. Not terribly original as far as COTH Alter name goes. I was not crazy about the name my TB mare raced under. Her barn name was Gracie so I thought up a show name that would incorporate her barn name. I remember Karen O'Connor had a horse called Regal Scot so I thought the "Regal" fit nicely with "Grace"…..hence the name. She passed through a number of hands and the next stop was New Holland. The owner had enough of her and wanted to unload her fast and the shipper that was supposed to bring her to NH was delayed. So I bought her cheap with the plans to send her to a TRF center be retrained and adopted out. I even filled out the paper work and there was a spot open in MD. It was impulsive on my part but I had seen so many sad horse situations not working out, I threw caution to the wind. When I told my bosses of the crazy thing I did and showed them a picture of her, they begged me not to send her away and give her chance. I gave them all the reasons why it was not practical to have a horse (expensive to board in the area I live, my parents were in poor health, I work long hours, etc). One of my bosses felt so strongly about me keeping her and giving her a chance that he paid her board for few months and said if I still did not want her at least I gave it a try. It must have been meant to be, I bought her on the day of the Belmont Stakes and as they say the rest is history ; )

As for the clinic in Maryland it's too far from where I live. I had planned to go watch the Para Equestrian training session in Gladstone NJ in July that Missy was going to be at. When I called the USET in Gladstone to reconfirm that weekend, I was told it was cancelled due to lack of applications which is a real shame. When I mentioned awhile back on COTH BB that their was going to the Para session at Gladstone a number of posters sent me PM's that sang Missy's praises left and right and that should definitely check it out. I don't know her personally. I've seen her a number of times at the Rolex 3 Day event and a few horse trials in Area 1. When I've watched her during the warm-ups/competition she is very kind and sympathetic rider and her dressage with CD is really beautiful which is why I wanted to see how she teaches her students (disabled and able bodied). It's just too far money and time wise to ship my horse to MD or PA but I would be more than happy to pay to audit a clinic she was giving and if she ever came to NJ (like Hunterdon County) or someplace in the NY Metro area I could probably manage ship my horse in.

Totally guessing why Missy is feeling down about Burghley is that the dressage test did not go as planned given it is one of her and CD's strengths. The gale force winds on Day One of Dressage at Burghley were no ones friends that day and most of the riders (including the top ones) had a very tough time with their horses.

I certainly don't know what it's like to be in "her boots" or how to minimize the disappointment of Burghley. When you see her, tell her how much we admire her as a horsewomen, sending lots of TLC and many hugs and look forward to seeing her and Critical Decision compete again.

If you have not already come across it, you can listen to the interviews Missy gave re: the Para Equestrian program along with Becca Hart (the rider the NeverTime wrote about for her article in Practical Horseman) on Horse Radio network from your pc.

http://2010radioshow.horseradionetwork.com/2009/02/18/2010-radio-show-episode-24-para-equestrian-the-newest-sport-at-weg/


http://2010radioshow.horseradionetwork.com/2009/05/21/2010-radio-show-episode-37-para-equestrian-update-with-rebecca-hart/

Look forward Whicker to what you thought of your experience at the clinic. I am sure you will learn lots and it will build your confidence. But remember to have fun too!

Take care

[NeverTime]

Love the link to Becca's interview! For those interested, it starts about 15 minutes into the show. She is an amazing rider and an even better person.

[LoveWay]

Thanks for the link to radio interview with Becca! My barn owner was her coach for awhile, so I feel sort of "linked" to her!

[whicker]

Regal Grace,

Where are you located? I will ask Missy about doing a clinic there. How about pm- ing me with your wish list?

[Invite]

I have the great fortune of being friendly with a wonderful and knowledgeable amatuer rider who is going pro. I asked her for advice on where to go for a couple lessons to get my confidence up. This has been difficult as I do not own a suitable horse. Kristen (ammy going pro) boards at a barn with several hunter/jumper school horses. The barn owner allowed Kristen to use one of the h/j horses to give me a lesson. It made my day. Kristen made me feel so good about myself. I was able to get this hunter mare to connect and give me a good walk and trot. I left the barn beaming.

I think the best part of the lesson was that Kristen thinks outside of the box. She did not pressure me to fix my "broken" body parts. We worked to have the mare adjust and get connected with the aids I was capable of giving. I did not receive a single negative comment. My lesson was so refreshing and uplifting. I wish all of you who are struggling could have a lesson as positive as the one I had today.

Kristen knew my legs couldn't squeeze, so we used voice, whip, and seat. Never once did she tell me to use more leg!!! Rather then tell me how much better it would be if I could use X, Y, or Z body parts, I was commended for how well I used the body parts I could use. The greatest compliment was when she told me no one would ever be able to tell I was handicapped when I was riding.

I hope all of you can have a lesson as fun as mine!

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

BEAMING for you!!!!

[Invite]

BEAMING for you!!!!

I really appreciate your thoughts. Today just made me feel so darn normal and really good about myself!!!! It is such a good feeling :)

[whicker]

Hurrah for Kristen!! :D:D

Please tell her we are all so happy that she is sharing what she has learned! I hope that you will encourage her to join us on the forum.

I am BEAMING for you, too! :D It feels so good when you think the movement and it happens. Keep those endrophins coming!

[Invite]

It was just awesome!!!! Kristen is down to earth and can look past the things we cannot fix. I can't wait for my next lesson with her :)

[whicker]

Beth will be up and posting soon. She expects to be coming home tonight. :D

[WaningMoon]

When I quit riding as asked by doctors I had been riding since age 8. I have been riding again now for a bit more than a yr. I do okay, most who see me ride think I have had lessons. I have not. I have learned on my own. Learned a lot from an unruly shetland many yrs ago.

When I started back riding I became very interested in learning basic dressage and felt it would be very good for my mare as well. But the thought of doing something for me finally, after raising my family, was very exciting.

I decided that it might be good to learn with someone who had an understanding of the spine, my disease, and the differences in what I can and can't do. I hvae to ride quite long legged and sometimes need to lean one way or another because of pain. I usually am riding with a numb right leg too.

So, I contacted the only TR center around here and it is still over an hour away. This presents a problem in itself as nothing bothers me more than riding in a car,nothing. But I was very wanting to try. I could not take more than one or two lesssons a month due to financial restraints. Well, I very quickly became very disappointed. They had me fill out 12 pages of info and medical record releases. After viewing my records and MRI they told me that some ppl just plain should not be on horses and I was one of those ppl. Well, I AM going to ride anyhow, so wouldn't it be better to be doing it with instruction? Im afraid I don't get it. They tell me I will be in a wheelchair at some point but no one can tell me just when. Apparently the more I do the qucker I will get there and this is partly why they want me to do nothing. But, no one is doing this mopping and sweeping etc, that I am not supposed to do so why should I not ride as well. I refuse to mop my way to this inevitable wheelchair. Isn't there someone who will let me ride and learn with them? Any ideas? Is it this way with all programs?

[whicker]

Hi Waning Moon,

No, not all therapy programs are the same. Not all trainers are the same, either. The forum is so new that everyday brings new people with new talents and interests. You will be seeing more information as we get a chance to network. This is a friendly, caring place.

For now, check the suggestions of the riding centers on the forum for the national organizations. Post private messages to the people who have the sort of knowledge that you seek. The therapy horse threads have given me some leads. Equineartworks, for example, may have some ideas for you.

I can't tell from your description of what physically is difficult for you, so it is hard to tell what sort of situation would fit you. I do know the feeling of frustration of not being able to ride and not finding a sympathetic spot to ride.

I can ride independently, so I may have different requirements for a trainer and what kind of riding I can do. I am also searching, and I do post about my own experiences. I will be going to the Maine clinic to learn more, and I will post whatever I learn that I think will be useful to the rest of us.

Hang in there! It will get better!

[whicker]

Waning Moon, pm me.
I may be able to give you some thoughts about the things I do to be more comfortable in the saddle. It sounds like you have a horse and the use of your legs. The numb leg is something that is pretty popular on this forum. Check the thread about MS and disc problems, it might be useful.

That mop could be ridden, too. I used to ride a broom or the family dog when I didn't have a horse. The dog wasn't so hot. It kept laying down:eek:

[Rackonteur]

I had to search a good deal before I found a trainer that would work with me. The instructor I ride with has been a fantastic. Very much worth the effort I put in finding her. She is supportive and pushes me to keep improving. But she has no experience working with a disabled rider, and there have been times when the issue we are trying to address from a strictly riding perspective isn't fixable from a strictly riding perspective. Keeping my stirrups, especially my right, is something I have struggled with from Day One. But she has no experience in adapting tack for a disabled rider, so the only fix available is what she would tell an able bodied rider. I get discouraged because no matter how hard I try, it just doesn't work for me. It took another COTHer explaining to me how to rubber band my foot into the stirrup to fix it.

There are so many of us out here, trying to make our riding lives work. I was shocked when these disabled rider threads started popping up. I had no idea there were so many of us! We all know what it is like to have a doctor lecture about the advisability of riding at all. Or to be in tons of pain from just 30 minutes of saddle time. Or how rough it is when you are the only one at your barn who needs help mounting. I wish there was a forum just for us, because the obstacles we face ARE different. Here in Idaho it can be hard enough to find dressage clinics/instruction/whatever. It is ten times harder to find it when you're a disabled rider.
Sheilah

I really identified with what you wrote. I have similar issues with a very nice trainer who is very caring and sympathetic but just doesn't "get" some of the issues I'm facing. Pain is what I have to deal with when I ride, and I just can't get my legs in a "correct" position without a lot of pain. When I ride my goal is to relax and enjoy the ride and not do stuff that will cause my muscles/joints/nerves to seize up and cramp or just hurt. So when I try to put my leg in the correct position and that hurts, then the whole reason for my being on the horse in the first place is frustrated.

Today we were trying to work on canter, because I want to get back to cantering, but I couldn't get my leg in the correct position to give my body a solid enough base for my seat to be secure at canter.

I wish there were some way to have a secure seat and be able to do more than walk-trot, without having to have one's leg in a certain position (and I don't mean I expect to canter with my toes down or my legs all over the place, but isn't there a way to be secure and not in pain?)

So that is what I am dealing with ...

[Invite]

I really identified with what you wrote. I have similar issues with a very nice trainer who is very caring and sympathetic but just doesn't "get" some of the issues I'm facing. Pain is what I have to deal with when I ride, and I just can't get my legs in a "correct" position without a lot of pain. When I ride my goal is to relax and enjoy the ride and not do stuff that will cause my muscles/joints/nerves to seize up and cramp or just hurt. So when I try to put my leg in the correct position and that hurts, then the whole reason for my being on the horse in the first place is frustrated.

Today we were trying to work on canter, because I want to get back to cantering, but I couldn't get my leg in the correct position to give my body a solid enough base for my seat to be secure at canter.

I wish there were some way to have a secure seat and be able to do more than walk-trot, without having to have one's leg in a certain position (and I don't mean I expect to canter with my toes down or my legs all over the place, but isn't there a way to be secure and not in pain?)

So that is what I am dealing with ...

I know EXACTLY what you are going through. I have to ride with a very long straight leg. I also have to ride in a saddle that fits me properly. Properly to me means it doesn't cause pain and keeps me in a secure position. With some saddles, I hunch my shoulders without realizing it because I am being put in the wrong position. Not to sound like a total whacko, my body tends to try to protect itself when the saddle is not right for me.

So, after my long ramble, this is what has worked for me...a deep seat (not a longish, flatish deep seat, more of a bucket like seat) and big blocks. Not every deep seated saddle with big blocks works, but for the most part it is what I need. I refer to it as a seatbelt saddle. Something totally non-dressage might work for you. Whatever saddle keeps you pain free and secure is the type of saddle you need. Be it an endurance saddle, a close contact, or even a western saddle, if it keeps you secure and enables you to accomplish what you want when riding, it is the right saddle for you!

If you find the perfect saddle, well perfect other then the blocks, do not fret. There are places that can put on bigger blocks, back blocks, etc.

Another thought...Are you wearing full seat breeches? They can help the tush stick!

Good luck! I feel your pain, as most of the folks on this forum do ;-)

[Rackonteur]

Thanks, Invite. :) I know what you mean about your shoulders, and your comment gave me a clue about my own riding--I am probably tightening up one part of my body when another part is affected. Ouch!

Right now I am riding in a lightweight synthetic western saddle, because it is light enough for me to get it up on the horse's back and it is more close-contact that some leather western saddles I've tried. I also like the support of the western stirrups and fenders. (It has a suede seat, so no issues with slipping!) I have wanted to go back to English saddles, but they just aren't comfortable for me, and the longer I stay away from them the less secure I feel when I try to ride in them.

The saddle you describe sounds like the Wintec Isabell I used for lessons for awhile. Sometimes it was very comfortable and secure-feeling; other times the straight flap and the thigh block put my leg in a position that really hurt. I am trying to adopt as much of a chair position these days as I can get away with.

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

One good thing about those blocks on the Wintecs - aren't they moveable? so could you play with them and see what works for you depending upon how you feel that day?

[Invite]

One good thing about those blocks on the Wintecs - aren't they moveable? so could you play with them and see what works for you depending upon how you feel that day?

You can even buy bigger blocks and/or extra sets of blocks. They are indeed velcro-able, so they can go anywhere. Unfortunately, this is a very uncomfortable saddle for me, but it is perfect for someone it fits. They are very "sticky" saddles and help keep you in place.