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View Full Version : Clinic of Hans Peter and Edward Gal (riding a 1.88 meters giant)



freestyle2music
Aug. 1, 2009, 04:57 PM
Clinic of Hans Peter and Edward Gal (riding a 1.88 meter giant).

http://www.topdressage.tv/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=17

[edit]
Theo

Ambrey
Aug. 1, 2009, 05:21 PM
My GAWD that's one freaking enormous horse.

Lovely, though.

alicen
Aug. 1, 2009, 07:38 PM
What a hoot! Gal doesn't have to raise his heel to get his spur on for a change.

Oh, Theo. How does one say deep and low in Dutch?

PennyChrome
Aug. 3, 2009, 07:59 PM
Love Gal's chairseat. I have one just like it! Glad to see them coming back into style

TheHorseProblem
Aug. 3, 2009, 08:04 PM
Rollkur City.

Coreene
Aug. 3, 2009, 08:30 PM
18.2 and change. Darling. :cool:

candico
Aug. 3, 2009, 11:17 PM
Thanks Theo,
Besides the big horse what I loved about the video was how supple and elastic those two horses were. And how easy those two guys make dressage look - I think it's lucky to get to see them school and I have no idea where others can say that those horses are being "tortured" by being ridden this way. I think at least 85% of riders here torture their horses just by sitting the trot... To me it is waaay more painful to go and watch the warmup at any of our local shows. I've only seen two riders here that have the ability to gymnasticize their horses as well as these two - Steffen and Guenter.

Do you happen to know what the breeding is on those two horses?

Surviving the Dramas
Aug. 4, 2009, 04:58 AM
I'm only 10 mins in, and of course, understand 0% of what is being said, but I like the way HPM rides, but not so flash on the way Edward Gal is riding here. As someone has mentioned, he is quite chair seat on this horse which is surprising as he normally looks very 'together' with his horses.

Also wish it was in English or had English subtitles! But know this would be too hard. :sadsmile:

Both are very nice horses

Edited to add observations (and nothing about Rollkur!!): Much MUCH prefer what HPM is doing with his horse as opposed to Edward. I know they train together, and I think train with the same instructor etc etc but he seems to have a lot more relaxed in his approach. He drops the reins and gives the horse regular breaks, as well as pats/praise, whereas I don't see so much from Edward (though he may be vocally praising - me no speakest no dutch!). Also Edward appears to be a bit more forceful in his approach. HPM seems a lot quieter. The changes work was particularly interesting. HPM had beautiful clean/straight changes, and waited for when the canter was well developed and balanced before asking whereas Edward had to use all of himself to get the changes out of his horse, they were quite swingy too. Noted that HPM's horse appears to have a stronger canter. Edward appears to be a little less soft in the hand too.

Thanks so much for posting Theo. A great vid to have a look through.

slc2
Aug. 4, 2009, 06:20 AM
To a slight degree, I think the saddle is affecting his position, it appears to be made for someone with a much longer thigh. I also think he's trying to keep a very light leg on the horse by bringing his lower leg forward. Too, the horse is so big, and it looks like he's getting used to the horse. The horse is huge, I'm not so sure it's easy to find a place for everything on him. Edward, I don't think, is so tall.

He has his lower leg slightly out in front of him, but he doesn't have a chair seat. In a chair seat, the lower part of the leg is not brought forward from the hip or knee. The position of the lower leg per se doesn't make a chair seat. What makes it a chair seat is the thigh is approaching the horizontal because the knee is lifted upward. His thigh is not approaching the horizontal, his thigh is almost vertical.

Like a lot of very tall people with very long legs, Hans Peter doesn't always have a very deep, low heel, and each movement of his lower leg is accentuated by his long legs. He still controls his spur and heel and can regulate it very subtly, so doesn't run into the problems of someone who can't control his lower leg because he doesn't have a deep open seat/hip. His soft position follows the movement of the horse so you see the very calm, nice big changes on the horse.

I know it feels cool to criticize the position of a top rider, but what I like to do is try to see how each person is a little different and how it works out for the horse's performance. A person who has mastered the basics and gained an adherent, deep seat still can have slight changes to his position.

this isn't technically a chair seat. This is a lower leg brought forward, the thigh remains very long and vertical with his knee low.

Most riders have something that's not entirely perfect in their position at any given point in time, and in being very soft and loose and following the motions of big gaited horses, the top professionals don't always look ideal. Slight deviations from the ideal aren't unusual. Some trainers maintain that not all people can or will sit exactly the same, and that slight adjustments are acceptable as long as the rider is effective and comfortable for the horse.

As far as the position of his toes, I recall very lengthy slags in my direction when I even suggested everyone should bring their toes forward even a slight bit more in order to open their hips. I was told in no uncertain terms that this is impossible for everyone and that people must accept that slight adjustments against this ideal are necessary. Is this important and indisputable rule different for Edward Gal?

Pony Fixer
Aug. 4, 2009, 07:18 AM
I'm only 10 mins in, and of course, understand 0% of what is being said, but I like the way HPM rides,

I fell in love with HPMs riding at the Wellington World Dressage Masters, so I agree completely.

OH, and he and Gal are partners--don't know about business/training, I mean life partners...

freestyle2music
Aug. 4, 2009, 07:55 AM
I'm only 10 mins in, and of course, understand 0% of what is being said, but I like the way HPM rides, but not so flash on the way Edward Gal is riding here. As someone has mentioned, he is quite chair seat on this horse which is surprising as he normally looks very 'together' with his horses.

Also wish it was in English or had English subtitles! But know this would be too hard. :sadsmile:

Both are very nice horses

Edited to add observations (and nothing about Rollkur!!): Much MUCH prefer what HPM is doing with his horse as opposed to Edward. I know they train together, and I think train with the same instructor etc etc but he seems to have a lot more relaxed in his approach. He drops the reins and gives the horse regular breaks, as well as pats/praise, whereas I don't see so much from Edward (though he may be vocally praising - me no speakest no dutch!). Also Edward appears to be a bit more forceful in his approach. HPM seems a lot quieter. The changes work was particularly interesting. HPM had beautiful clean/straight changes, and waited for when the canter was well developed and balanced before asking whereas Edward had to use all of himself to get the changes out of his horse, they were quite swingy too. Noted that HPM's horse appears to have a stronger canter. Edward appears to be a little less soft in the hand too.

Thanks so much for posting Theo. A great vid to have a look through.

Let me start with telling you that Hans Peter and Edward train eachother since they have become life-partners. As Dutch A-team members they have to go once a while for an observation training to our national coach Sjef Janssen (like all other A- and B- team members). Which they all consider to be very helpfull and positive. The way they have chosen to ride their horses have turned out to be very positive (look at Lingh and Ravel). In the four videos I have posted of their clinics they explain their way of training and the reason why they use this training. Funny thing however is that when Carl Hester explains (in English) exactly the same thing everybody yells woow and yes, and when a Dutch rider explains it (in Dutch) people start yelling GRRRR and no.

siegi b.
Aug. 4, 2009, 08:27 AM
The big horse is a Krack C x Contango (fascinating combination of bloodlines in my mind) and the other one, I think is by Olivi....
Great learning opportunity even if you don't understand what HPM and EG are saying - just watch with an open mind.

caddym
Aug. 4, 2009, 08:31 AM
F---ing brilliant.

Personally I think you should have the ability to ride the neck/back in any position - long and low, deep, up with the poll the highest.

I loved watching EG when at one point he was cantering straight with the head and neck really flexed right and then he turned that into a super canter half pass.

i don't think that big bay looks easy at the begining he had the tendency to junp together behind at the canter. I'd love to ride the little black one!

PennyChrome
Aug. 4, 2009, 11:03 AM
To a slight degree, I think the saddle is affecting his position, it appears to be made for someone with a much longer thigh. I also think he's trying to keep a very light leg on the horse by bringing his lower leg forward. Too, the horse is so big, and it looks like he's getting used to the horse. The horse is huge, I'm not so sure it's easy to find a place for everything on him. Edward, I don't think, is so tall.

He has his lower leg slightly out in front of him, but he doesn't have a chair seat. In a chair seat, the lower part of the leg is not brought forward from the hip or knee. The position of the lower leg per se doesn't make a chair seat. What makes it a chair seat is the thigh is approaching the horizontal because the knee is lifted upward. His thigh is not approaching the horizontal, his thigh is almost vertical.

Like a lot of very tall people with very long legs, Hans Peter doesn't always have a very deep, low heel, and each movement of his lower leg is accentuated by his long legs. He still controls his spur and heel and can regulate it very subtly, so doesn't run into the problems of someone who can't control his lower leg because he doesn't have a deep open seat/hip. His soft position follows the movement of the horse so you see the very calm, nice big changes on the horse.

I know it feels cool to criticize the position of a top rider, but what I like to do is try to see how each person is a little different and how it works out for the horse's performance. A person who has mastered the basics and gained an adherent, deep seat still can have slight changes to his position.

this isn't technically a chair seat. This is a lower leg brought forward, the thigh remains very long and vertical with his knee low.

Most riders have something that's not entirely perfect in their position at any given point in time, and in being very soft and loose and following the motions of big gaited horses, the top professionals don't always look ideal. Slight deviations from the ideal aren't unusual. Some trainers maintain that not all people can or will sit exactly the same, and that slight adjustments are acceptable as long as the rider is effective and comfortable for the horse.

As far as the position of his toes, I recall very lengthy slags in my direction when I even suggested everyone should bring their toes forward even a slight bit more in order to open their hips. I was told in no uncertain terms that this is impossible for everyone and that people must accept that slight adjustments against this ideal are necessary. Is this important and indisputable rule different for Edward Gal?

Slc, you must have a lot of spare time. I'm just being lighthearted, not critical. I often end up riding like that also because I have a short thigh and too long flapped saddles. The best position is the one you ride best from.

Pony Fixer
Aug. 4, 2009, 11:35 AM
Well, Theo, if they are saying in Dutch what Carl Hester is saying in English, then I just love them all the more.

I'll have to watch again. Maybe it's time to Rosetta Stone Dutch and German (ah, if only my Nana was still alive, or had insisted I pay more attention to my German language lessons....)

Surviving the Dramas
Aug. 4, 2009, 10:51 PM
Let me start with telling you that Hans Peter and Edward train eachother since they have become life-partners. As Dutch A-team members they have to go once a while for an observation training to our national coach Sjef Janssen (like all other A- and B- team members). Which they all consider to be very helpfull and positive. The way they have chosen to ride their horses have turned out to be very positive (look at Lingh and Ravel). In the four videos I have posted of their clinics they explain their way of training and the reason why they use this training.

Thanks Theo, I had a sneaking suspicion that they probably trained each other, and I was in no way criticising either of their riding at all - just that they are clearly quite different, and I prefer the way HPM rides. They are both hugely successful and have produced hugely successful horses that have gone on to be successful under other riders too. I really enjoyed the work that they did, and thought that their positioning was at all times great and not to the extreme.

SLC - at the end of the day, we disagree. I think he was a bit chair seat on this horse, and the style of saddle that he had on this horse (happy to be proven wrong) looks the same as the one he uses on Totilas. That could be this horse, and it certainly did look "hotter" than HPM's horse.

I appreciate getting to watch riders of this calibre effectively "schooling." We don't get to see this over here, so I like to analyse the way they do things, learn from them, and pick up new techniques.

I can't wait til Steffan Peters is here in September - YAY!

CTM
Aug. 5, 2009, 07:04 AM
Awesome video!! Thanks for sharing. I love watching those guys ride.

alicen
Aug. 5, 2009, 08:51 AM
I think Gal's legs are a tad forward so he can stop that sucker. The horse looks like he'd enjoy nothing more than an out-of-hand cross country gallop. Phew! Just imagine.......

I wonder what the joke is about the sliding stop.

freestyle2music
Aug. 5, 2009, 10:16 AM
I think Gal's legs are a tad forward so he can stop that sucker. The horse looks like he'd enjoy nothing more than an out-of-hand cross country gallop. Phew! Just imagine.......

I wonder what the joke is about the sliding stop.

Edward explains in this video that he is certainly NOT an example of a good seat. Toes out etc...etc.... But since he don't want to think about his toes and and and, he decided just to do it his way. He also stated that he will always teach his students to do it right.

Theo

bort84
Aug. 5, 2009, 11:52 AM
Edward explains in this video that he is certainly NOT an example of a good seat. Toes out etc...etc.... But since he don't want to think about his toes and and and, he decided just to do it his way. He also stated that he will always teach his students to do it right.

Theo

Haha, "Do as I say, not as I do." But seriously, pros often have to ride a little bit outside of perfect equitation while training. It's just the way it goes. They usually always have the solid basics there, but everyone is going to look a little different on a green horse or on a horse that needs some corrective schooling (like, say an 18.2 hander who may like to get a little strong...)

Clearly EG doesn't need me to make excuses for him, just noting that once somebody knows how to do it the "right" way, they can then make adjustments to fit each horse they're on. I guess I tend to take the pro's side in these discussions because it's so easy to nitpick videos of people we've never been able to watch train and school in person. Certainly just because someone is a pro doesn't mean they're beyond reproach, but it is awfully easy to watch a video and decide how they could be doing it better.