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paintjumper
Jul. 31, 2009, 02:49 PM
What kind of daddy is he? Ammy friendly babies or pro rides?
Thanks

caddym
Jul. 31, 2009, 02:52 PM
you might also want to post this in the sport horse breeding discussion forum

freestyle2music
Jul. 31, 2009, 03:41 PM
I can only inform you about Lingh himself and his approved son Beau.

They are both wonderfull horses, with a very good mind and attitude.

karin o
Jul. 31, 2009, 06:34 PM
I have been told that the foals of Lingh are really easy to handle...so I kept hearing great stories and since my experience is quite slim with foals...I said to someone....aren't all babies easy and fun to handle. I had to pick the person off the floor she laughed so hard. She made it quite clear that all foals are not born alike. So, to answer your question, I have been told by many foal owners that their Lingh babies are very easy to handle by all their family members. As they grow up, the same positive comments on riding/breaking them. They are amateur friendly. If you wish to talk with some owners I can help you contact them. I am always interested in stories about his offspring and try to get them onto the website under New News. Let me know, Karin Offield, Lingh's mom(sort of).

JennNC
Jul. 31, 2009, 08:01 PM
I have a lovely Lingh yearling filly (if I do say so myself) and I can attest to the fact Lingh obviously is prepotent for a good disposition. This filly's dam is a good mare, but not as quiet as her filly seems to be. This filly (her name is "Lotza Lingh" and we call her Lucy) does not get handled that often, but when I go out to get her out of the field, she is very easy to catch (as a matter of fact she always comes to greet anyone who enters the pasture) and leads like a champ even though I don't do it that often. She ties and loves to be groomed. She is great for her vaccinations, the farrier, etc. I don't work with her that often, just letting her live outside and be a horse. She seems to be a quick learner.

And, Karin..its true..they are NOT ALL that easy! haha I hope this is a sign as to how she will be under saddle.

I am VERY impressed with her attitude! She is drop dead gorgeous as well.

I'm a big Lingh fan.

Jennifer

Coppers mom
Jul. 31, 2009, 08:55 PM
I had a friend who goes every year to see the VDL stallion show (or whatever it's called), and he had quite a different story. Apparently, he asked about his foals, and several breeders told him Lingh's babies are no good and are nothing like him. There were even some not so nice things said about them being good candidates for the canners. :eek:

BUT, 90% of people aren't trying to get Lingh reincarnate when they breed their mares like these breeders are, so take it with a grain of salt.

YankeeLawyer
Jul. 31, 2009, 10:36 PM
Virginia Tech had a lovely Lingh colt - a 2008 model, I believe. I am sure they would not mind answering questions about him.

paintjumper
Aug. 1, 2009, 01:13 PM
what registries are his babies accepted to? I did not see that on his website. Thanks, I love him.

karin o
Aug. 1, 2009, 06:23 PM
I apologize...I will get the info up on the site asap..... Born Dutch, So KWPN - NA also approved Hanoverian - AHS and HOV, Oldenburg, Swedish ( SWANA & ASVH) and Finnish.

Have you seen his new video on You Tube ? Click on Amazing Lingh, hope you like it, it's cool. Take care, Karin

paintjumper
Aug. 1, 2009, 06:34 PM
That is what prompted me to ask the question about Lingh. I loved him, of course, and I loved the music but because I was paying complete attention the the horse I found the background a bit distracting, but to each..... his own. Of course it could have been my medieval-movie-loving husband that kept saying in the background, "find out what that movie is, find out what that movie is" that was the distracting part!! Husbands. ;)

egontoast
Aug. 1, 2009, 07:49 PM
several breeders told him Lingh's babies are no good and are nothing like him. There were even some not so nice things said about them being good candidates for the canners. :eek:


and were they selling foals from other stallions maybe?

Coppers mom
Aug. 1, 2009, 08:20 PM
and were they selling foals from other stallions maybe?

I don't think so, it was some kind of stallion show/exhibition/whatever, not an auction.

Pony Fixer
Aug. 1, 2009, 08:30 PM
Slightly OT, but it bothers me that many people, even breeders, seem to conveniently forget that all horses have a mother. In pedigrees you even often see the damsire rather than the dam! If you breed 50% stellar to 50% crap, you are not going to get 100% stellar.

And since the importance of the contribution of mitochondrial DNA is still debatable, some might argue the mare is MORE influential in the final product than the sire...

Carry on...

Coppers mom
Aug. 1, 2009, 11:46 PM
Slightly OT, but it bothers me that many people, even breeders, seem to conveniently forget that all horses have a mother. In pedigrees you even often see the damsire rather than the dam! If you breed 50% stellar to 50% crap, you are not going to get 100% stellar.

And since the importance of the contribution of mitochondrial DNA is still debatable, some might argue the mare is MORE influential in the final product than the sire...

Carry on...

No offense, but I hear this argument mostly from breeders who's stallions have crappy babies. I can't remember how many times I've heard a breeder say "Well, the mother wasn't that great". At some point, you've got to wonder if all the mares were bad, or if it's just him.

Pony Fixer
Aug. 1, 2009, 11:53 PM
I don't have a dog in this fight, as I have not bred, don't intend to breed, etc. I have put quite a bit of semen into mares (good and bad on both ends), though, and have a degree in a genetic field (Immunology, but the research was mostly diabetes related genetics).

Can a really nice stallion not be prepotent enough to pass any quality to the offspring?--maybe. But more likely it's just that the genetics of temperament, gaits, rideability, etc. are complicated! (duh!). And the stallion ONLY brings 50% to the table.

So to ask a question like "Are Lingh babies Ammy friendly?" should garner a "maybe, depending on the mare."

VolteVT
Aug. 2, 2009, 09:45 AM
We have two Lingh yearlings and adore them. The colt, Landmark VT, is out of an imported KWPN mare and did very well in-hand as a foal, with scores up to 85.6 and a win at DAD. He has a super character, and despite still being intact, is very easy to handle. He is a ham and likes to showoff but is inherently very laid back.

The gelding, Last Call VT, is out of a domestic TB. He is a hunter mover (this was the breeding goal for him) with long, elegant lines. He is a bit more sensitive than Landmark but has a great workmanlike manner and is also very good to handle.

I only have experience with these two Lingh youngsters but believe either would certainly be suitable for an amateur rider. They are both favorites amongst our students!

Going4Gold
Aug. 2, 2009, 11:52 AM
I had a friend who goes every year to see the VDL stallion show (or whatever it's called), and he had quite a different story. Apparently, he asked about his foals, and several breeders told him Lingh's babies are no good and are nothing like him. There were even some not so nice things said about them being good candidates for the canners. :eek:

BUT, 90% of people aren't trying to get Lingh reincarnate when they breed their mares like these breeders are, so take it with a grain of salt.

I don't have a friend who goes every year to the VDL stalion show. I don't need one because I am there myself every year. I have heard this b*llshit from every stallion year after year (Contango, Ferro, Jazz just to name a few). Sour grapes all over this show and many other shows as well. :lol::lol:

This is a multi million dollar business. And believe me people get a strange behaviour when money is involved.

Just like you :yes::yes:

Coppers mom
Aug. 2, 2009, 12:35 PM
I don't have a friend who goes every year to the VDL stalion show. I don't need one because I am there myself every year. I have heard this b*llshit from every stallion year after year (Contango, Ferro, Jazz just to name a few). Sour grapes all over this show and many other shows as well. :lol::lol:

That's odd, because he asked about nearly every stallion there, and none of them got such a negative response across the board. I mean, sure, everyone's stallion is better than everyone elses (:rolleyes:), but Lingh was pretty much disliked by every breeder he asked.

But, like I said, I think those guys have very different breeding goals than the average ammie.




Just like you :yes::yes:

And what in the world is that supposed to mean?

EASY RIDER STABLE
Aug. 2, 2009, 11:55 PM
I am floored by your posts. The OP was searching for quality's and characteristics from those who have LINGH offspring not from people who have not had the oprritunity to have (or work ) with one ! ! I however am one of the more fortunate people I have a GREAT colt (DarLingh-LINGH X NATHALIA X COCKTAIL) who along with D.A.D.'08 winner Landmark VT helped LINGH get a terrific 5th ( by less than 1%) in the Get of Sire last year at DAD beating great stallions like Rousseau ! As for LINGH, you know crap about him lady. He has an impeccable pedigree was/is a phenomenol show horse and holds the highest of standards with more Stud Books than I've ever seen a stallion accomplish. And geuss what , I LOVED my easy to handle, exceptional colt so much I bred my Cocktail mare to him AGAIN.

YankeeLawyer
Aug. 3, 2009, 12:47 AM
I think perhaps people who actually have seen the stallion, know the stallion, and have even ridden the stallion, as well as those who have seen his offspring and perhaps handle them on a daily basis are in a better position to respond to inquiries about that stallion as a breeding animal. It is more than rude to spread third-hand nasty gossip, which by the way is 180% contrary to anything I have seen with my own eyes or heard about this horse.

He is gorgeous and his foals are gorgeous.



But, like I said, I think those guys have very different breeding goals than the average ammie.

This comment is just bizarre. If anything, I seriously doubt the "average ammie" would even think to breed to Lingh, and not due to any shortcoming he has. He is most likely to attract people trying to produce a world class horse, imo. I would love to have one of his youngsters and I am very, very picky. They must be pretty memorable because off the top of my head I was able to mention that VT has a colt by him that I saw once a year ago, and I see hundreds, if not thousands, of foals per year, in person and on videos.

And if anyone is interested in finding out more about Lingh, the GREAT thing about the KWPN is that the registry tracks and maintains very helpful records on all of their breeding stallions, so you can read about the stallion's performance scores and the stallion's foal report.

As for mares being unfairly blamed, I say BS in most cases. The fact of the matter is in many, many cases that people expect the stallion to fix everything, and blame the stallion when the foal is not 100% perfect, despite the fact there is not one thing about the mare's pedigree or qualities as an individual that would indicate she would be a good producer.

Easy Rider - do you have any pics to post of your colt? I *love* Cocktail as well and would love to see your boy.

Maude
Aug. 3, 2009, 09:41 AM
Does Lingh have any performance offspring out there? I know he did not breed many mares due to his performance career. Personally, I am more interested in what a horse's offspring does as a performance horse under saddle than in a breed show. Most horses that do well in breed shows do not go on to have great performance careers and move up the levels. Of course the rider makes a big difference :). When I look at a stallion for breeding, I am most interested in his offspring as riding horses. Hard to do sometimes because we are so blown away by a gorgeous stallion. Lingh certainly gives me goose bumps to watch him.

Valentina_32926
Aug. 3, 2009, 10:02 AM
...So to ask a question like "Are Lingh babies Ammy friendly?" should garner a "maybe, depending on the mare."

Usually when a (actual/potential) breeder asks these questions it's:
1. Because they a temperment at least as nice as the mare(s) they are breeding OR
2. Want to improve on the mares temperment.

My VERY sweet "perfect for an Ammie" mare threw a super temperment filly out of Riverman (reported to be "hot" by some) that I consider Ammie temperment IF the Ammie can ride (she is sensitive). That same mare then threw a "crazy" (but talented in jumping with very nice dressage movement) mare I practically gave away from another Reg. Holsteiner stallion who "throws good temperment". Where did the "screw loose" temperment come from? No idea if it was the mare of the stallion, but it was what I term a "throw back" as neither stallion NOR mare displays any of those negative characteristics.

sixpoundfarm
Aug. 3, 2009, 10:07 AM
There is a foal report from his 2006 crop on the KWPN website, but its in dutch. :(
If I am reading correctly, as of 2008 he had 119 foals registere with the KWPN.

Here is a brief synopsis I found.

Lingh (Flemmingh x Columbus)
A varied collection of sufficiently developed, sufficiently riding type foals that should be built more uphill. The foals have sufficient scope in movement but should have more freedom of the shoulder, impulsion and suppleness.

If anyone reads Dutch, have at it.
Afstammelingen 2006 (veulens)
Van Lingh werd een wisselende collectie, voldoende ontwikkelde, voldoende rijtypische veulens getoond die meer opwaarts gebouwd zouden moeten zijn.
Het hoofd is wisselend van vorm en zou doorgaans meer uitstraling moeten hebben. De nek is voldoende van lengte. De hals is goed van vorm en wisselend van lengte. De schoft is goed van lengte en ontwikkeling. De schouder is voldoende van lengte, maar steil. De rug is wisselend van lengte en goed bespierd. De croupe is wisselend van lengte en ligging met ruim voldoende bespiering. Het voorbeen is voldoende van lengte en meermalen frans gesteld. Het achterbeen is lang en wisselend gesteld. Het fundament is voldoende ontwikkeld.
De stap is ruim voldoende van ruimte. De veulens zouden meer bergop moeten draven met meer schoudervrijheid en een actiever gebruik van het achterbeen. De veulens galopperen makkelijk aan met voldoende ruimte, maar een vlak voorbeen. In beweging zouden de veulens meer souplesse en afdruk moeten hebben.

Kort samengevat: Wisselende collectie, voldoende ontwikkelde, voldoende rijtypische veulens die meer opwaarts gebouwd zouden moeten zijn. In beweging hebben de veulens voldoende ruimte, maar zouden meer schoudervrijheid, afdruk en souplesse moeten hebben.

De collectie bestond uit 18 door het KWPN aangewezen en drie door de eigenaar geselecteerde veulens. Vijf door het KWPN aangewezen veulens waren afwezig. Deze veulens zijn thuis geïnspecteerd en passen in het beeld van de rapportage; één van deze veulens is alleen op stand gezien, in verband met een blessure. De door de eigenaar geselecteerde veulens passen in het beeld van de rapportage.
De veulens werden gepresenteerd op een zandbodem.
De kwaliteit van de moeders was gemiddeld.
Getoond: 16 (+5) veulens uit 92 in 2005 gedekte merries.
De gebruikte terminologie bij benadering in cijfers:
matig: 5; voldoende: 6; ruim voldoende: 7; goed: 8.

Paringsadvies 2006
Lingh lijkt geschikt voor rijtypische, bergopwaarts gebouwde dressuurmerries die over ruimte en souplesse in beweging beschikken.

Coppers mom
Aug. 3, 2009, 12:23 PM
I am floored by your posts. The OP was searching for quality's and characteristics from those who have LINGH offspring not from people who have not had the oprritunity to have (or work ) with one ! ! I however am one of the more fortunate people I have a GREAT colt (DarLingh-LINGH X NATHALIA X COCKTAIL) who along with D.A.D.'08 winner Landmark VT helped LINGH get a terrific 5th ( by less than 1%) in the Get of Sire last year at DAD beating great stallions like Rousseau ! As for LINGH, you know crap about him lady. He has an impeccable pedigree was/is a phenomenol show horse and holds the highest of standards with more Stud Books than I've ever seen a stallion accomplish. And geuss what , I LOVED my easy to handle, exceptional colt so much I bred my Cocktail mare to him AGAIN.

Wow, I'm rude?

Pray tell, where were any of my posts rude? I didn't come on and say "Lingh throws the biggest pieces of crap, they should have gelded him yesterday". I just passed on what I had heard, and that you should take it with a grain of salt. In fact, I repeatedly pointed out that it shouldn't be taken as the holy gospel, just another tid-bit when it comes to evaluating a stallion. You will have the barn blind people who's babies are all perfect little Pookie-Bears, and then you will have the other ones who bred just for the name, and not for the best cross, and proclaim that the stallion's worthless. I'm not the only one who's heard this, and the guy who goes to the VDL show isn't the only one who's told me this, so I'm sure that there are some babies out there that aren't what the breeder expected, just like with every other stallion. If your baby is one of the nice ones, there's no need to get so offended.

I've seen a couple Lingh babies, checked them out online, and I didn't think they were bad, but my breeding goals and ability to judge a foal are probably very different from someone who's breeding for GP and GP only. My perfect baby is someone else's useless one, so like I said, take it all with a grain of salt.

Coppers mom
Aug. 3, 2009, 12:30 PM
This comment is just bizarre. If anything, I seriously doubt the "average ammie" would even think to breed to Lingh, and not due to any shortcoming he has. He is most likely to attract people trying to produce a world class horse, imo.

Does this not just reinforce what I said about Ammie's having different breeding goals?

What's an Amateur want? Something quiet, safe, easy to start, easy to get along with, laid back, not necessarily a world beater but fun, etc. Those aren't exactly qualities that top the list for a professional. They will typically be looking for power, athleticism, sensitivity, and other qualities that make a horse top-notch material.

Someone breeding for a professional may think of an amateur's horse as crap. Obviously, that doesn't make it so, I was just pointing out why the breeders might have said what they did.

YankeeLawyer
Aug. 3, 2009, 12:40 PM
Does this not just reinforce what I said about Ammie's having different breeding goals?

What's an Amateur want? Something quiet, safe, easy to start, easy to get along with, laid back, not necessarily a world beater but fun, etc. Those aren't exactly qualities that top the list for a professional. They will typically be looking for power, athleticism, sensitivity, and other qualities that make a horse top-notch material.

Someone breeding for a professional may think of an amateur's horse as crap. Obviously, that doesn't make it so, I was just pointing out why the breeders might have said what they did.

I really don't understand what you are trying to say about Lingh.

This is what you said before:



That's odd, because he asked about nearly every stallion there, and none of them got such a negative response across the board. I mean, sure, everyone's stallion is better than everyone elses (), but Lingh was pretty much disliked by every breeder he asked.

But, like I said, I think those guys have very different breeding goals than the average ammie.

The implication was that average ammies might think Lingh is great because their goals are different / lower than those in the know who are serious breeders and who want to produce a world class horse. Did you mean the opposite?

TheHorseProblem
Aug. 3, 2009, 01:21 PM
I had a friend who goes every year to see the VDL stallion show (or whatever it's called), and he had quite a different story. Apparently, he asked about his foals, and several breeders told him Lingh's babies are no good and are nothing like him. There were even some not so nice things said about them being good candidates for the canners. :eek:


What I find shocking is that someone would repeat such scurrilous gossip on a forum, which the owner of the stallion in question is reading and posting on under her own name. If you have facts about a specific foal, then that's fair, but this is just outrageous.:no::no::no:

Coppers mom
Aug. 3, 2009, 01:24 PM
I really don't understand what you are trying to say about Lingh.

The implication was that average ammies might think Lingh is great because their goals are different / lower than those in the know who are serious breeders and who want to produce a world class horse. Did you mean the opposite?

I think you should read my posts. You're not understanding because you're trying to argue and pretend I'm implying things that I'm not. I'm not saying anything out of the ordinary regarding professional vs. amateur horses, you're just trying to make it that way, for whatever reason.

Never once have I said that an amateur's goals are less than those of a professional's, or that they want a lesser quality animal, or anything else like that. They just want different qualities and characteristics than what a professional would. This is not anything outrageous, and I believe it has been beaten to death on these boards. The perfect horse for an amateur isn't the type of horse a professional is going to go looking for, and vice versa. They are two very different markets with very different ideas of what the "best" horse is.

A breeder who is trying to get the next Olympic mount is going to be disappointed in a horse who ends up too quiet and is more of an ammie ride. A breeder who is trying to get an amateur friendly foal is going to be disappointed if the foal grows up to be overly sensitive and not so forgiving. This isn't a reflection on the quality or ability of the animal, just a difference in the market and the hopes of the breeder. Again, not such an outrageous statement, and not so hard to understand.

YankeeLawyer
Aug. 3, 2009, 01:57 PM
I think you should read my posts. You're not understanding because you're trying to argue and pretend I'm implying things that I'm not. I'm not saying anything out of the ordinary regarding professional vs. amateur horses, you're just trying to make it that way, for whatever reason.

Never once have I said that an amateur's goals are less than those of a professional's, or that they want a lesser quality animal, or anything else like that. They just want different qualities and characteristics than what a professional would. This is not anything outrageous, and I believe it has been beaten to death on these boards. The perfect horse for an amateur isn't the type of horse a professional is going to go looking for, and vice versa. They are two very different markets with very different ideas of what the "best" horse is.

A breeder who is trying to get the next Olympic mount is going to be disappointed in a horse who ends up too quiet and is more of an ammie ride. A breeder who is trying to get an amateur friendly foal is going to be disappointed if the foal grows up to be overly sensitive and not so forgiving. This isn't a reflection on the quality or ability of the animal, just a difference in the market and the hopes of the breeder. Again, not such an outrageous statement, and not so hard to understand.

Obviously there is a miscommunication here. We were discussing *Lingh* and the statements you had made about things you heard from someone who had heard something from yet someone else. I was asking if you were suggesting (1) pros have a poor view of the horse and (2) amateurs don't know better and / or have different goals. The fact that ammies and pros have different goals / tastes is not controversial. What is controversial is the implication that the horse is not a good producer, and the implication that people here who have offered contrary views based on firsthand experience with Lingh and his offspring only like him because they are (a) ammies or (b) don't know better.

Coppers mom
Aug. 3, 2009, 02:59 PM
Obviously there is a miscommunication here. We were discussing *Lingh* and the statements you had made about things you heard from someone who had heard something from yet someone else.

Obviously. I thought we had moved on to just Ammies vs. Pros, and what they look for in a foal. I had no idea that anyone thought I was still babbling on about Lingh :lol:


I was asking if you were suggesting (1) pros have a poor view of the horse and (2) amateurs don't know better and / or have different goals. The fact that ammies and pros have different goals / tastes is not controversial.

1) Um, no :confused: Not really sure what that means. Speaking of Lingh, like I said, a lot of people breed for the name, not the best cross. I am more than sure that some of that's going on. Not to mention that when you have a horse as spectacular as Lingh, most babies are going to pale in comparison, that's just the game of breeding. So like I said, those that were breeding for and (unrealistically) expecting to get Lingh reincarnate were probably disappointed by his first foal crop.

2) I never said anything about amateurs not knowing better. Like I've repeatedly said, an amateur's perfect horse isn't the same as a pro's. They two groups want a different temperament, attitude, sensitivity, athletic ability (for example, Anky puts up with Salinero's displays of athleticism, I, personally, would not :lol:), etc.


What is controversial is the implication that the horse is not a good producer, and the implication that people here who have offered contrary views based on firsthand experience with Lingh and his offspring only like him because they are (a) ammies or (b) don't know better.

Where did I say that the people who like his babies were amateurs or didn't know better? Where did I even imply that? The OP asked about his babies being pro or ammie rides, and I just said that there is a difference between what a pro is looking for in a foal than an amateur, which may be why different groups have such varying opinions on him. How you pulled "The people who like their Lingh babies don't know enough to know better" from that, I have no idea. Never once have I mentioned a lesser quality or ability in an amateurs horse, simply the different temperament and characteristics that stem from that.

And example of this would be how I like Irish Draught crosses. They are laid back and fairly forgiving (generally). Other people like TB's because they are hotter and more sensitive (generally). Both go to and have done well in the Olympics despite being very different types of rides. For example, Gina Miles may not enjoy riding Winsome Andante, and Amy Tryon may not like riding Mckinleigh. It has nothing to do with the horses ability, the riders skill, or the goals of the pair, only individual preferences. Being suitable for an amateur vs. a pro, in this particular discussion, has less to do with ability than temperament, attitude, sensitivity, and the like.

Hope that made sense, I'm off to Subway :)

LD1129
Aug. 3, 2009, 03:14 PM
Don't know if anyone already said this but check out the Hasslers web site www.hasslerdressage.com you may be able to get some information there or be able to talk to Suzanne.

mbp
Aug. 3, 2009, 03:25 PM
Google translation of sixpoundfarm's post:

Descendents 2006 (foals)
From Lingh was a changing collection sufficiently developed enough rijtypische foals shown that more should be built up.
The head varies in shape and would usually have more impact. The neck is of sufficient length. The neck is good shape and of varying length. The b*stard is a good length and development. The shoulder is of sufficient length, but steep. The back is of varying length and well muscled. The croup is of varying length and location with plenty bespiering. The bone is of sufficient length and several times French. The achterbeen is long and varied set. The foundation is sufficiently developed.
The move is plenty of space. The foals would have more uphill trot with more shoulder freedom and an active use of the achterbeen. The foals galloping easily with enough space, but just before leg. In motion, the foals more flexibility and printing needs.

In summary: Uneven collection sufficiently developed enough rijtypische foals that more should be built up. Movement in space, the foals, but shoulder, more freedom, flexibility and printing needs.

The collection consisted of 18 by the KWPN and three appointed by the owner selected foals. Five appointed by the KWPN foals were absent. These foals are home inspected and fit into the image of reporting, one of these foals is seen in position in connection with an injury. The owner selected foals fit into the image of the reporting.
The foals were presented on a sandy bottom.
The quality of the mothers was average.
Displayed: 16 (+5) foals from 92 mares covered in 2005.
The terminology used in approximate figures:
moderate: 5; enough: 6; ample: 7; good: 8.

Mating Opinion 2006
Lingh seems suitable for rijtypische, uphill built dressage mares with space and flexibility in movement have.
*************************

Google seemed to have problems with "rijtypische" and "achterbeen" and I'm pretty sure the reference to "The b*stard is a good length" is wrong (along with the reference to the "several times French") so I inserted the * :)

Sounds like the Dutch stats indicate that he meshes best with an uphill mare with a good shoulder. The uphill would be something that most people would like to start with for a cross with most stallions if they are wanting a dressage prospect. A nice big free shoulder is something both dressage and jumper breeders would like to start with, so nothing wild or unusual in any of that. Sounds like you tend to get good foundations, good bone, good length and shape of neck, good back muscling in the Lingh crosses.

The stats won't sing to you, though, like some stallions do. If you're starting with a flexible mare with a good shoulder and uphill type, it sounds like Lingh could be a good option and then you have to see what moves your heart. He certainly has performance offspring and he's pretty incredible to watch.

YankeeLawyer
Aug. 3, 2009, 03:32 PM
Best part of the translation


"The b*stard is a good length and development."

Ambrey
Aug. 3, 2009, 03:42 PM
Best part of the translation


"The b*stard is a good length and development."

So do ammies prefer long or short b*stards, in general?

karin o
Aug. 3, 2009, 04:02 PM
Lingh began breeding in 2005, so the youngsters are just beginning to compete.
A better translation of the KWPN description that is translated above is on Mary Phelps Stallions/Market site, and on my Las Vegas ad that I posted on New News on his website.

Owning a stallion is MULTI DECADE experience. What many people are encouraging is that if you want to breed your mare to a proven Grand Prix horse, then just maybe you have your foot in this interesting door...you know that the stallion has stamina, longevity, certainly body strenght and the other qualities attached to the LONG road of getting to the top level of dressage sport. Olympic/FEI Grand Prix. The really young stallion owners cannot say that....about their youngsters. It's a different way to approach a breeding decision. How many living and breeding Grand Prix stallions ( retired or not) are out there ? New Thread ? Karin

Pony Fixer
Aug. 3, 2009, 05:39 PM
Usually when a (actual/potential) breeder asks these questions it's:
1. Because they a temperment at least as nice as the mare(s) they are breeding OR
2. Want to improve on the mares temperment.

My VERY sweet "perfect for an Ammie" mare threw a super temperment filly out of Riverman (reported to be "hot" by some) that I consider Ammie temperment IF the Ammie can ride (she is sensitive). That same mare then threw a "crazy" (but talented in jumping with very nice dressage movement) mare I practically gave away from another Reg. Holsteiner stallion who "throws good temperment". Where did the "screw loose" temperment come from? No idea if it was the mare of the stallion, but it was what I term a "throw back" as neither stallion NOR mare displays any of those negative characteristics.

Well, the answer why the second foal was "crazy" is either the two horses, while both good, were not a good match, or that temperament is multifactorial. In truth, it's likely both.

For instance, in Golden Ret, hip dysplasia can occur in the get of two "excellent" hipped parents. Usually, it's something about the match, as either may not have had babies with the issue before. In Lab Ret., there is a heart problem that does not show up in babies, only second generations. Figure out the genetics on THAT one, lol. The same is probably true for any definable trait you can name in horses as well.

As for the "improving the mare's temperament"--why would anyone breed an ill-tempered animal EVER? To breed an ill-tempered mare to a "good" tempered stallion is a crap shoot at best, especially since a good deal of temperament is nurture as well as nature.

To be totally transparent, though, even though I have made a living from breeding, I give a talk entitled "why you shouldn't breed your mare". I am of the opinion that breeding, regardless of animal, should be the best to the best, which usually means it is left to well educated breeders, and not the average ammy.

Flame suit zipped tight!

mbp
Aug. 4, 2009, 03:33 PM
That's an interesting point on picking a horse that has the internal qualities as well that indicate it held up through the process. Along with "stamina, longevity, certainly body strenghth" etc. there is also the fact that, "hot" or not, the horse has mentally as well as physically held up to the training and heavy travel/showing aspects that it took to get there.

That would be a good thread - GP dressage stallions.

Rooty
Aug. 6, 2009, 05:17 PM
I'll play.
Lingh
Idocus
Art Deco

Liz
Aug. 6, 2009, 06:58 PM
Jan Brinks horse (just retired) Briar

mbp
Aug. 6, 2009, 08:33 PM
If we're playing here, I'll add

Master and his son Tip Top, both GP stallions.
Lancet
Leonidas
Amiral

Rooty
Aug. 7, 2009, 04:09 PM
Donaufurst?

karin o
Aug. 11, 2009, 10:17 PM
played out. I guess what I learned from this thread is no matter how you ask...sometimes some people like to say things to get attention and they are oblivious to how what they write will make the other people feel.....to indicate that the breeders in "her world" of access said those horrible things about Lingh is so odd....its odd because looking back on all her previous posts, she does not do "odd".....this was a subject she must have heard, somehow, somewhere, and thought....I gotta tell the world. Well I gotta tell ya - next time you are so compelled to speak/write "cannery" words about a living breathing amazing animal that has never harmed a hair on your head, and whose offspring are barely 4 years old already, please for the love of horses, think first, then maybe edit what you may or may not have heard (- btw, do you and your friend speak/understand dutch ? ) so that the subject of the ORIGINAL thread can continue in a proactive, progressive, educational fashion and you can be a helpful, interesting member of the BB.

The english translation of the description of Lingh goes like this....
The KWPN describes Lingh as an honest and reliable stallion that is easy to work with. Lingh's international dressage career under Edward Gal took him to Grand Prix Championships throughout Europe. Under current owner and amateur rider Karin Offield, Lingh made an impressive presence in the United States. The great achievements of this stallion match his absolutely stunning conformation. Lingh is an athletic, modern riding type. His head is intelligent. His neck has a good length and form. The shoulder is long and well angled. The withers are well developed. The croup is a good length and well muscled. His legs are straight and correct.

Lingh comes from the famous KWPN dressage stallion, Flemmingh, sire of Anky van Grunsven's Krack C. Lingh’s fatherline goes back to world famous stallions Landgraf, Capitano, Cor de la Bryere, and Ladykiller xx. Lingh's dam Gazelle has been rewarded with the highest mare prizes of the KWPN: Ster, Preferent, Prestatie. Gazelle's father Columbus was an international jumper and includes the thoroughbred jumping stallion, Lucky Boy xx and Uppercut xx. Lingh's fantastic breeding family has already produced 7 approved stallions. Lingh began his breeding career in 2005.

At the 2009 KWPN Stallion Licensing in Den Bosch, Lingh's son Beau was the Reserve Champion Dressage Stallion. Beau is bred by Ferro's owner out of a Ferro mare. Out of nearly a thousand prospects presented at the start of the selection process, he was one of only 26 dressage stallions selected by the KWPN Stallion Selection Committee to attend the 2009 Stallion Performance Test at Ermelo.

At the 2008 Dressage at Devon Breed Show, Lingh's son Landmark VT was the ISR/Oldenburg NA Two and Under Champion with an 80.4%. Landmark VT is out of the Virginia Tech Foundation's mare Odet II by Jorn.

As with every Breeding Stallion, the proof will be in the years to come. I think Lingh is very special - and I am his MOM. Lingh is an interesting choice for any ambitious dressage or jumping and hunter breeder.

slc2
Aug. 11, 2009, 10:20 PM
I hope you can just forget about what was said. Lingh is a wonderful horse; anyone can see that. He has been a joy to watch over the years. It was especially exciting to learn he was sold to the US and even more a thrill to watch an American rider compete on him.

Liz
Aug. 11, 2009, 10:27 PM
Bravo Karin.

Good luck with such a wonderful horse. Watching his video from Las Vegas gives me goose bumps.

indyblue
Aug. 12, 2009, 01:30 AM
What a horrible, vindictive piece of crap third hand gossip is.Not even second hand but third hand.Why would you even write such a thing?:eek:
Karin.Do not take it on board.No one else has.

PennyRidge
Aug. 13, 2009, 05:34 PM
Karin, I rarely post, but I feel compelled to do so right now. CoppersMom posted a very disparaging message about veterinarians in her own state in another forum. Her comments were potentially reputation-damaging and highly inappropriate. I also noticed that she posted her nasty comments about Lingh soon after a poster from her own state posted a bit of a "brag" about her own Lingh filly. Is it possible that CoppersMom directed her trash talk more at her "local connection" similarly to how she smeared veterinarians from her local area?

She was literally sharing information that she says she "heard" from a friend who said he "heard" from a breeder, etc. What would inspire CoppersMom to share such third hand supposed information that is so negative? She is clearly a very young person and still immature.

Personally, I don't believe for a MINUTE that any breeder at that show even made the comments she posted. What kind of breeder would make such ridiculous comments about a world renowned stallion whose offspring are still very young and just making a name for themselves. And for the moment, the news from this stallion is nothing but GOOD? I highly doubt CoppersMom ever heard any such thing.

Its just a thought.

Coppers mom
Aug. 13, 2009, 06:17 PM
Karin, I rarely post, but I feel compelled to do so right now. CoppersMom posted a very disparaging message about veterinarians in her own state in another forum. Her comments were potentially reputation-damaging and highly inappropriate. I also noticed that she posted her nasty comments about Lingh soon after a poster from her own state posted a bit of a "brag" about her own Lingh filly. Is it possible that CoppersMom directed her trash talk more at her "local connection" similarly to how she smeared veterinarians from her local area?

Wow, blow things out of proportion much? Inappropriate? Smearing? Ridiculous. I have made a lot of comments about vets when people ask, but I've never posted anything untrue or anything negative without a direct explanation of why they didn't work for me. Saying you don't like a vet is not going to destroy a reputation, and it certainly isn't inappropriate when people ask for opinions.

Regarding the Lingh filly who's owner I may dislike, that has got to be the stupidest thing I've ever heard. You spend too much time making up conspiracy theories.

Look, I'm sorry if I offended anyone. I'm not the best at posting on the internet, and often leave out the details and flow that would occur in a normal conversation. Instead of just putting the :eek: face, I should have elaborated. This is the internet, and not a conversation, so I should have known that it wouldn't have gone "Some said they're fit for the canners/omg really?/Omg I know! Can you believe that?!/What jerks/I know! Even if I didn't like the baby I'd never say that!" etc etc. We can't hear tone on the internet, read body language, or immediately go back and forth on the internet the way we do in person. Next time, I will make things more clear rather than throwing out a statement and expecting it to follow in the normal conversation type fashion.

PennyRidge
Aug. 13, 2009, 07:44 PM
Look, I'm sorry if I offended anyone. .
Coppersmom, please take some advice from someone who has stuck foot-in-mouth many times in my life...an apology is a GOOD thing. But it is not an apology unless you actually apologize and admit that you made a mistake. For instance, instead of "I'm sorry IF I offended anyone" (because there is no question that you offended), try saying something along the lines of, "I'm sorry for making the stupid comments I made. I shouldn't have repeated third hand gossip that I can't even verify. It was awful to share these comments, they were completely inappropriate, and I'm sorry for being rude."

That is an apology that people will actually appreciate!

You actually seem like a smart girl in many of your other posts. Use this as a learning experience.

Coppers mom
Aug. 13, 2009, 08:17 PM
Coppersmom, please take some advice from someone who has stuck foot-in-mouth many times in my life...an apology is a GOOD thing. But it is not an apology unless you actually apologize and admit that you made a mistake. For instance, instead of "I'm sorry IF I offended anyone" (because there is no question that you offended), try saying something along the lines of, "I'm sorry for making the stupid comments I made. I shouldn't have repeated third hand gossip that I can't even verify. It was awful to share these comments, they were completely inappropriate, and I'm sorry for being rude."

That is an apology that people will actually appreciate!

You actually seem like a smart girl in many of your other posts. Use this as a learning experience.

My God, who knew I had a nagging internet girlfriend :eek: :lol:

TwinCreeksFarm
Aug. 14, 2009, 08:24 PM
I breed KWPN and AHS horses and have several very nice mares, and best of all a super relationship with Hassler Dressage and Hilltop Farm. Lingh has always been on top of my list as a stallion choice. My only problem is that vets around my area will not do frozen semen, they won't even check for ovulation during the weekend, so I have to use fresh cooled. I don't know what goals breeders on this forum have, but my goal is always to breed an Olympic and World Cup competitors. Sadly I am not there yet, but I am getting closer. With that said, Lingh's gaits are brilliant, without those gaits, most horses futures are severely limited, and without excellent conformation, most horses cannot have excellent gaits. Also, one must realize that there is much anti-American sentiment in Europe, and anyone who steps on their soil is likely to feel it. Specially when an American lady buys one of their top horses.