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View Full Version : VIDEO: super exciting 1990s'-style jumpoff!



ImmortalSynn
Jul. 30, 2009, 09:01 PM
Call me nostalgic, but I'm totally a fan of the 1990s style of grand prix jumpoff... as opposed to the 2000s' style of high-technicality-but-practically-zilch-running. I think it can best be seen in the following jumpoff vid, which BTW includes a 21yr-old horse!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEbf99DO_r8

Though I realize that the current style is in fact more difficult, I just felt that the '90s style, which required both speed AND technical ability, as opposed to focusing almost exclusively on the latter, was just so much more exciting to watch.

What say you?

mg
Jul. 30, 2009, 09:20 PM
Thanks for that! I love how there are TBs doing the high stuff and kicking ass! I found myself getting really excited and shouting, "GO GO GO!!!"

Kinsella
Jul. 30, 2009, 09:29 PM
ImmortalSynn, you ROCK! I love the old GP's you've posted - THANK YOU!!!

KateKat
Jul. 30, 2009, 09:31 PM
fun! Its interesting how things have changed. Why did TB's go out of style?

Philliab
Jul. 30, 2009, 09:33 PM
That was awesome! Thanks so much for sharing!

HuntJumpSC
Jul. 30, 2009, 10:49 PM
Another thumbs up! Thanks for posting~ I miss the old 90's style GP's...:yes:

horselesswonder
Jul. 30, 2009, 10:57 PM
I thought Margie and Land of Kings were especially fun to watch. Thanks for posting that.

bear necessities
Jul. 30, 2009, 11:11 PM
Margie is so small on all the horses she rides, I love watching her! She's like a little peanut up there lol Oh the days before approved helmets...so classy looking..so not safe!

wolfatbay2002
Jul. 30, 2009, 11:36 PM
Thank you :) that brought back a flood of happy memories.

Chef Jade
Jul. 30, 2009, 11:50 PM
:cool:That just made my night! Thanks! :cool:

theroanypony
Jul. 31, 2009, 12:06 AM
Thanks for posting! Definitely something entertaining to watch while I try to keep myself awake.

Kneigh
Jul. 31, 2009, 12:12 AM
Definitely a fun jump-off. Thanks for posting.

Atypical
Jul. 31, 2009, 12:16 AM
Wow, I actually remember watching the Grand Prix on TV back in the day. So many awesome horses. I loved Rhum IV and For the Moment. Sigh....

kellidahorsegirl
Jul. 31, 2009, 12:20 AM
You rock for always putting up such AWESOME videos! I love when I get an email saying you put a new one up :D

Really, what more can I say? I love the horses and the "old school" rides. We should bring that back!

ImmortalSynn
Jul. 31, 2009, 07:24 AM
Thanks everyone for the kind words... and here I thought y'all might be getting tired of my vids :D

For those who may be interested, I've got plenty more famous '90s horses/riders on the way-- when I can find find time to digitize and edit them that is.

Be on the lookout for these future uploads: Jus de Pomme Twist du Valon Beth Underhill & Monopoly Eric Lamaze & Cagney "Send in the Clones," featuring Gem Twist, Calvaro V, and E.T. FRH various Spruce Meadows promos

Ones that I'm currently looking for, or would love to even just see for myself: Loro Piana Tomboy in the 1996 Alberta Power 6-Bar anything of various showhunters (Rox Dene, Domino, January's Best, etc) anything of Big Ben eventer Eagle Lion other vids of eventer Murphy Himself

Ones that I have, and might post, but still not sure: more of Margie & Hidden Creek's Laurel more of Margie & Land of Kings more of Rodrigo & Loro Piana Tomboy the 1996 McGregor Corporation Jumpoff (richest in the USA at that time) Katie Prudent & BellaDonna Karen O'Connor & Prince Panache David O'Connor & Giltedge Bruce Davidson & HeyDay etc



...'course, by the time I finish all that, I may as well start on a famous '00s horses collection ;)

MistyBlue
Jul. 31, 2009, 08:17 AM
Okay, I just spend a good 20-30 minutes watching a bunch of your videos. Damn, you've got some fun-to-watch videos! Just finished watching the oxer two-step one. :eek:
I remember watching many of those back in the 90s...sitting on the floor in front of the TV for a closer view. Gave me the grins to be able to watch them again. :yes: :D
Thanks for sharing. I'm adding your youtube channel to my favorites. ;)

Vandy
Jul. 31, 2009, 09:21 AM
First, thanks so much for posting this, it made my night too :)

I wish I weren't so technologically impaired - I have a few really good AGA Grand Prixs from the late 80's and early 90's on VHS and haven't the slightest idea how to get them from there to youtube. My favorite is (I'm not sure from what year) a great jumpoff won by Joe Fargis and Touch of Class. Also have some Big Ben, lots of Margie on various horses, and the always exciting Jappeloup and Ommen :sigh: This reminds me, I'd better at least get them onto DVD before the tapes are worn out from repeated watching :lol:

ImmortalSynn
Jul. 31, 2009, 10:58 AM
Just finished watching the oxer two-step one.
One of my faves. ;)

Of course, my favorite of all is my very first video, one of my fondest/saddest memories. It's also the only one I didn't tape off of TV (props to my buddy Paul for that), lol.
...wanna hear an absolutely beautiful song? Then check it out!

VIDEO: Stranded Concorde returns home (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nA5eYdwC8o4)

It was really a sad time. But was glad I was there. Among friends as well. I have the same passion for aviation that I do for horses, and it was truly heartbreaking to see (what we thought of at the time) the last time Concorde would ever grace the skies.


But anyways, I digress.





I remember watching many of those back in the 90s...sitting on the floor in front of the TV for a closer view. Gave me the grins to be able to watch them again.
Indeed... but what I wouldn't give to have the old Prime Sports Network back.
Phooey on Fox for dismantling it! :mad:

Every weekday at 2pm, like clockwork, there'd be some showjumping competition on. Usually they'd follow it up at 3pm with either something from Spruce Meadows, or some other form of equestrian programming on, as well.

1995-1997, which are the years that the overwhelming majority of my videos are from, they'd often run horse programming every weekday from noon-5pm... heck, I wrote in encouraging them to just drop the facade and become the All-ShowJumping Network, lol. I was all but devastated when Fox merged them into Fox Sports South. :cry: :(

What really sucks is that ESPN essentially stopped showing Saturday/Sunday equestrian programming about 2 years or so after that as well, so it just became more and more difficult to find good grands prix on basic cable.





I'm adding your youtube channel to my favorites.
Much appreciated. Hope I don't disappoint in the future ;)

ImmortalSynn
Jul. 31, 2009, 11:08 AM
First, thanks so much for posting this, it made my night too :)

I wish I weren't so technologically impaired - I have a few really good AGA Grand Prixs from the late 80's and early 90's on VHS and haven't the slightest idea how to get them from there to youtube. My favorite is (I'm not sure from what year) a great jumpoff won by Joe Fargis and Touch of Class. Also have some Big Ben, lots of Margie on various horses, and the always exciting Jappeloup and Ommen :sigh: This reminds me, I'd better at least get them onto DVD before the tapes are worn out from repeated watching :lol:
Oh wow, Ommen!!
I've always wanted to see that stallion go... in no small part because everyone always said Hidden Creek's Glory was a dead-ringer for her sire, and I always loved how that mare looked!

If you know how to convert them to DVD, then it isn't much of a jump to get them online... I can refer some sites/tutorials to help you with that, and refer you to the free (my favorite word) software you'd need. Or heck, if you want, just send 'em to me and I'd do it for you, lol.

Send me a pvt message when you get the chance, if you're interested!

kashmere
Jul. 31, 2009, 11:54 AM
Thank you! I got goosebumps from that. :)

TBlitz
Jul. 31, 2009, 12:25 PM
Do you happen to have any Cruising videos around too? :D

ImmortalSynn
Jul. 31, 2009, 12:32 PM
Do you happen to have any Cruising videos around too?
Yes, I do.

Have one of him and Trevor Coyle in 1995.

Mara
Jul. 31, 2009, 01:51 PM
First, thanks so much for posting this, it made my night too :)

I wish I weren't so technologically impaired - I have a few really good AGA Grand Prixs from the late 80's and early 90's on VHS and haven't the slightest idea how to get them from there to youtube. My favorite is (I'm not sure from what year) a great jumpoff won by Joe Fargis and Touch of Class. Also have some Big Ben, lots of Margie on various horses, and the always exciting Jappeloup and Ommen :sigh: This reminds me, I'd better at least get them onto DVD before the tapes are worn out from repeated watching :lol:


Thanks from me as well!

Yes, I would LOVE to see the '84 Olympic jumpoff with Touch of Class! I regularly check YouTube for this.

ImmortalSynn
Jul. 31, 2009, 04:30 PM
Yes, I would LOVE to see the '84 Olympic jumpoff with Touch of Class! I regularly check YouTube for this.
As do I...
but after reading it again, I don't think the above poster specifically mentioned it to be the Olympic jumpoff, particularly seeing as she's not sure of the year.

Hauwse
Jul. 31, 2009, 04:46 PM
fun! Its interesting how things have changed. Why did TB's go out of style?

Love to watch the older video's with riders like Matz, Fargis, Kursinski, etc. They always made it look like they were in a hunter class.

Why did TB's go out of style? Now that's a big question.

Thoroughly examined the explanation would turn in to a novel.

At a really high level there were a few key factors that lead to the TB's demise in the big ring.

I believe it starts with the European breeding programs. long term programs which incorporate rigorous licensing and grading of breeding horses, detailed record-keeping, and an organizational framework which links breeding operations with government (national and state-level) as well as with equestrian competition structures, enabling the breeding of Sports horses to be a) geared towards continual improvement of type (“bred for”), whilst also being responsive to the current and future needs of competition riders, and b) sufficiently funded and subsidized.

TB's on the other hand are bred for flat racing primarily in North America. All the programs that involved TB's were geared toward their bred for discipline, racing. Limited documentation of TB sport horse bloodlines. Breeding being focused on producing TB's that could run at 2 (precocity), and had the speed to run the different disciplines, if you will, of flat racing (early speed), which by frequency of events would be races under 6 furlongs. The factors that produce these type of horse also have some significant drawbacks for the hunter/jumper world. Conformationally TB's did not always meet the requirements of the hunter/jumper world. Osteologically delicate, built downhill, and frequently injured early on in their racing careers, tendons, sesamoids, etc.

At the same time the Europeans were producing horses specifically for hunter/jumper disciplines.

WB success in the international ring, and our lack thereof lead to us importing WB's in great numbers to stay competitive, and because it was cool!

With their success the Europeans also gained great influence over the FEI, which meant that they could influence the tilt of the playing field to their advantage. The impact is simply that International competitions are biased towards the European style of riding, and the types of horses the Europeans, technical aspects of competition, such as course design are geared toward the limitations, and or the attributes of WB’s, ergo why we do not see the types of courses in the videos that prompted this thread.

At the same time back here at home the industry blindly followed the trend, and we failed to see the consequences.

First we were importing the competitions horses, bad idea. Some of the same aspects that make European breeding programs successful, also equate to them retaining their breeding stock, meaning we did not, will not get any of their best horses. We are not talking about a bunch of individual Chapots developing Gem Twists, and simply wanting to get their horse into the hands of the best riders, at the best price to further their programs and make profit.

Second we were blinded by the stamp. All WB's possess some TB bloodlines, and many of the great WB bloodlines began with TB races horses. Horses like Cottage Son, who goes back to Son In Law who goes back to Bayardo who goes back to Dark/Bay Ronald, excellent flat racer producers. However no matter how much TB exist in any WB bloodline they will always be a WB and can never be a TB, consequently if a KWPN is 75% TB he is still considered a KWPN.

In this we failed to recognize that we were getting beat not by superior horses, but our own horses, placed in a superior breeding and development program that went well beyond individual success.

Thirdly, with all the importing we were doing it was as if we did not have to develop horses here anymore, and our development of horses decreased dramatically. This was especially harmful to the TB as they were the horses we developed.

Fourth, lack of TB development left a huge knowledge gap concerning the evaluation, procurement and development of TB's in this country for FEI disciplines.

The trickledown effect was simple, no development of TB's meant they did not get into the big ring, no TB's in the big ring supported the theories of early speed and precocity, and bolstered the idea that bred for horses were superior, no TB's in the big ring supported the theory that courses had become to technical for TB's, and that TB's could not stand up to the rigors of international competition, and a whole slew of negatives were placed at the TB's feet that may have had some truth to them, but were not specific to the TB as a breed, until TB basically became a bad name in the industry.

Ultimately at this point it is a paradox for the TB's. No development means they will never get to the big ring, no exposure in the big ring means they will never be developed for the big ring.

Surprisingly, while we are trying to develop, with decent success, our own WB or sport horse breeding programs here using European bloodlines, the Europeans are trying to improve their already superior product by infusing more TB bloodlines in their breeding programs, go figure!

supershorty628
Jul. 31, 2009, 06:30 PM
I have a spin-off question - does anyone know of full TBs competing in the upper level (7 and up) jumpers? My mare is a TB and everyone is amazed when I tell them that. It's like she's the only one (around here) who is doing that.

Ishi
Jul. 31, 2009, 07:05 PM
Fantastic video! I was a junior in the early 90's and remember watching the GPs every weekend we showed. Riders like Michael Matz and Leslie Burr (Howard) were so gorgeous to watch, it really was like a hunter round. And there horses were so well turned out! I rode with Tim Grubb and loved to watch him as well, on Sundays.

Not to get to OT but my first grand prix horse was an off the track TB, who ran at Mountaineer in the $5000 claiming ranks. I bought him to be my A/O jumper and it went from there. We were third in our first GP together, which was also my birthday, the coolest birthday present in the world!

He was killed 2 years later and I quit the H/J world and now event. I know he was my once in a lifetime horse, and the reason why I have such a huge love for the American Thoroughbred.

ThatScaryChick
Jul. 31, 2009, 07:10 PM
Call me nostalgic, but I'm totally a fan of the 1990s style of grand prix jumpoff... as opposed to the 2000s' style of high-technicality-but-practically-zilch-running. I think it can best be seen in the following jumpoff vid, which BTW includes a 21yr-old horse!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEbf99DO_r8

Thank you! I love seeing some of these older videos.

LittleGray
Jul. 31, 2009, 07:28 PM
Awesome video! How can you not love watching Michael Matz and Margie? And Land of Kings and For the Moment...LOVED those horses!!

ImmortalSynn
Aug. 1, 2009, 08:21 AM
Wonderful assessment Hauwse!
...really encompasses the irony of how we got to this point, so far as TBs in the ring go.

Here's hoping that Gemini Twist (http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=214615) really shakes things up in that regard!

Romany
Aug. 1, 2009, 08:06 PM
Search some of the old greats on Youtube; eg:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOWlytvcS5M

(Harvey Smith galloping faster than many modern eventers, lol)

Clarence
Aug. 20, 2009, 02:55 PM
I would like to see Rodney Jenkins and Bill Steinkraus. Both from before the '90s I know, but no where to be found...

Thanks for the other videos.

- C

Rosie
Aug. 20, 2009, 11:01 PM
Wow! Thanks for posting. My horse has exactly the same breeding (Jalisco B) on top as Olisco so loved seeing him go.

Vindicated
Aug. 20, 2009, 11:40 PM
I remember being younger and sitting by the big ring all day long (when I had free time that is) and watching all of the classes. Just watching and learning, and getting goosebumps!!! Now a days-the thrill seems to be gone :(

I have not seem more than one or two jump off rounds in a GP that actually make me go :D


Maybe again someday....

ImmortalSynn
Aug. 21, 2009, 11:57 PM
I would like to see Rodney Jenkins and Bill Steinkraus.
I know I don't have any of the latter. Pretty sure I don't of the former either...

...though while looking, I have found some of Joe Fargis, which was a pleasant surprise. Forgot I had 'em, particularly seeing as he wasn't nearly as active at the upper levels in the '90s.

mortebella
Aug. 22, 2009, 08:24 AM
I'd like to see a little Stormin' Norman Dello Joio...

ImmortalSynn
Aug. 22, 2009, 02:57 PM
I'd like to see a little Stormin' Norman Dello Joio...
I have some of him... thing is though, they're with his more recent mounts (Glasgow and Mila).

I'd prefer posting something of him atop the likes of Irish (which I don't have yet at all) or I Love You (which I only have a very short clip of).

Clarence
Aug. 25, 2009, 07:32 AM
Cool. I have some of Joe in Lexington this year. And from Katie Prudent as well.

What about footage of the Chapots? Or is that all too early? Conrad and Abdullah (I saw it once, but can't find it anymore)?

Thanks again for all the videos you put up. Really great!

Dakotawyatt
Aug. 25, 2009, 07:54 AM
I have a lot of those old grand prix's on tape. I have that particular one, in fact! I have a lot when Barney Ward and George Lindemann Jr were competing head to head against Margie, BEFORE the insurance scandals. Mclain was just 16 back then. A few of my gray favorites that I have a few of were Katie Monahan and Partly Cloudy, Henri and Silver Skates, and Beezie Patton on Ping Pong. I've got a whole tape of Indoor stuff in Canada, which was shown practically every weekend on one of the Fox Outdoor channels. Awesome stuff!!:winkgrin:

Clarence
Aug. 25, 2009, 05:35 PM
Well, Jenny, mind putting it on youtube? :)

ImmortalSynn
Aug. 25, 2009, 07:18 PM
And from Katie Prudent as well.
Some old stuff of her and Partly Cloudy, but mostly have her with Belladonna.



What about footage of the Chapots?
Just Laura.
I didn't start riding competitively, nor really keeping up with shows, until 1994... so Frank & Mary are wayyyyy before my time.



Or is that all too early? Conrad and Abdullah (I saw it once, but can't find it anymore)?
On my channel? Nah, don't have anything of them, but I do remember one single video of Abdullah on YouTube



Thanks again for all the videos you put up. Really great!
Welcome, more to come! :)



I have a lot when Barney Ward and George Lindemann Jr were competing head to head against Margie, BEFORE the insurance scandals.
Including Threes&Sevens? I've ALWAYSSSS wanted to see that horse go!

Also, just curious:
are they still in jail??

What about Ludger Beerbaum, is he eligible to ride internationally again?

Dakotawyatt
Aug. 25, 2009, 09:09 PM
Well, Jenny, mind putting it on youtube? :)

I certainly will! Just have to get hubby to upload the tapes, or show me how to do it! I have probably 5 full tapes of nothing but televised shows from the 90's.:winkgrin:

ImmortalSynn
Aug. 25, 2009, 09:14 PM
I certainly will! Just have to get hubby to upload the tapes, or show me how to do it! I have probably 5 full tapes of nothing but televised shows from the 90's.:winkgrin:
Awesome.

If you guys need any help/suggestions digitizing and/or uploading them, feel free to drop me a line... I'll offer any suggestions I can :)

Would be really excited to see some of the rides you've spoken of!