PDA

View Full Version : What to do? (deals with owner resonsibility)



This Is It
Jul. 30, 2009, 08:50 PM
So, this post will be long, just a heads up.

I lease a horse from my instructor and have done so for the past 2 years. I love this horse.
This past week, my barn is having a riding camp and on Wednesday, a chiropractor came out and gave us a demonstration on about 4 horses and I learned a lot. One thing that I walked away with was knowing exactly what to look for in a horse to see if he is ouch-y and what all that misalignment does for the horse, performance-wise.

This morning I was grooming my horse (the one I lease from my instructor) and noticed that he flinches along his loin area and croup when I groom him, heck I can just rest my hand there and he flinches. I feel terrible about it too, because this is not a new thing, I can't remember when it first started but it has been this way for quite awhile. :(

I mention this to my instructor and she says that he probably does need an adjustment but she can't afford to have her lesson horses looked at and adjusted accordingly. From what I've seen other people pay for chiro work, $86 is not very much, especially when the welfare of the horse is concerned.

The fact that he isn't right explains so many issues that just seem to not get better. Lateral work, mostly leg yielding is next to impossible, our canter departures, though I have been working on them for over a year are-although better- are still pretty blah.

What really gets me is that, even though my trainer knows he's ouchy and not quite right, in lessons she wants me to get after him during leg-yielding because he's not crossing over very much or our canter departs aren't that great. :(

I feel really bad now that I realize what exactly is going on but I don't know what to do. He's not mine so my parents won't let me pay for something they feel my instructor should do, and my instructor won't have him looked at because she "can't afford it".

I'm really bummed as well because I can't afford to buy him, even if she put him up for sale, which is unlikely. If I were to make an offer, it would have to be well above my budget because he is a valuable, versatile lesson horse. He takes care of beginners and people learning to jump but is also useful for the more advanced riders and because he's a 16.1h stocky QH, almost anyone can ride him.


Should my instructor have the chiropractor out since she knows he's hurting?


What should I do? I'm really depressed about the situation because it's not fair to him to ask for 100% when he's hurting. :(

Serah
Jul. 30, 2009, 08:52 PM
If you lease the horse, you should be financially responsible for his chiropractic adjustments.

JWB
Jul. 30, 2009, 08:58 PM
$86 isn't very much. You're leasing and riding so you should offer to pay.

BearWithMe
Jul. 30, 2009, 09:06 PM
agreed. now that you are leasing him you are responsible for keeping him as sound as possible

This Is It
Jul. 30, 2009, 09:08 PM
I understand where you are coming from Serah, but in the contract, all I'm paying for is to ride. I don't take care of farrier, vet, etc.

JWB- I would offer, but since I am still a minor, I have to somehow convince my parents. Even though it is a small amount, they feel that since my instructor owns the horse, she should pay, but...ugh.

BearWithMe- Like I told JWB, I only pay to ride him. It's a funky lease contract and I would much rather prefer a regular lease agreement where I take financial responsibility over his care, but I don't and because of the agreement between my instructor and I, my parents aren't going to be too keen on me offering to pay for something they feel my instructor should do.

I would be more than willing to pay for the chiropractor to come out, but I don't how I can convince my parents that the horse is more important than their feelings.

Cita
Jul. 30, 2009, 09:10 PM
Are you young(er)? You mention your parents "not letting you pay." If you are 18+ too bad, so sad, pay anyway. ;) If you are younger than that, maybe you can "pay it off" to your trainer via extra work around the barn? Say, you supervise lesson kids tacking/untacking, much stalls, whatever for X hours and your trainer pays for the chiro adjustment? (Just make sure the arrangement works out to a reasonable $/hr situation for you - I wouldn't settle for less than 9 or 10 personally ;))

kashmere
Jul. 30, 2009, 09:11 PM
In the grand moral scheme of things, yes, the owner should get her horse looked at. And in a completely sensible world, there should be a lease contract that states who is responsible for what re: medical costs for this horse.

Realistically? You're the rider here. You have a choice: pay the $86.00 and have a sound horse who you can ride comfortably and in good conscience; Don't pay the $86.00 and deal with the guilt and further injury that are likely to come; Or, stop riding and leasing the horse and pass the responsibility on to his owner.

It's $86.00, you are his primary rider. I hear you on being upset that the owner wont do it, (a person who is unwilling to keep her lesson horses healthy doesn't sit right with me,) but you can sit around wishing it was being done, or you can do it.

This Is It
Jul. 30, 2009, 09:18 PM
Cita- I'm 17, so close! I hadn't thought of working it off (duh me). I'll talk to my instructor about that tomorrow.

kashmere-That's just it. In the lease contract, it states that the owner is responsible for medical costs, so that's not going to sit right with my parents but after I talk with my instructor tomorrow, hopefully a solution will arise where my horse ends up better and my parents aren't too put off for having to do what they shouldn't have to (pay for the chiro).

bornfreenowexpensive
Jul. 30, 2009, 09:20 PM
Honestly...chiro work isn't the end all be all.....some horses it helps...and some horses it doesn't help.

Do not feel guilty. Does the horse have a good shine to his coat? Is he well feed? Have a pretty good life? That is the most important thing. Also, correct work can help a horse as much if not more than a chiro adjustment.

You want to help him more....make sure that your saddle fits....and learn some of the carrot stretches that pretty much every Chiro will ask you to do with your horse. Someone more articulate than me perhaps can perhaps describe a few of them or next time the chiro is working on a horse in the barn see if they will demonstrate some of them.

Beyond that....start saving your own pennies if you really think this is important. Why do your parents have to pay for it...save the money you get for your B-day or holidays...babysitting or other odd jobs.

mg
Jul. 30, 2009, 09:26 PM
Don't chiropractors usually want to do a couple sessions, not just one? That's why I've always been hesitant to get one out. One session might not be overly expensive, but when you have to pay that a couple times, it definitely adds up.

This Is It
Jul. 30, 2009, 09:29 PM
bornfreenowexpensive- I'm a little more reassured because he does have a shiny coat, he does have good muscling, and he is in good weight. I have my saddle checked often because I really do want him to be comfortable. The reason my parents would have to pay is because I'm currently out of a job, but I'm going to an interview tomorrow.

Also, the chiropractor showed me like 7 different stretches that I am now going to do religiously.

mg- Yes, the chiropractor usually does a couple sessions, but they are usually a month or so later, so it's not a lot all at once.

Gry2Yng
Jul. 30, 2009, 09:30 PM
Honestly...chiro work isn't the end all be all.....some horses it helps...and some horses it doesn't help.

Do not feel guilty. Does the horse have a good shine to his coat? Is he well feed? Have a pretty good life? That is the most important thing. Also, correct work can help a horse as much if not more than a chiro adjustment.

You want to help him more....make sure that your saddle fits....and learn some of the carrot stretches that pretty much every Chiro will ask you to do with your horse. Someone more articulate than me perhaps can perhaps describe a few of them or next time the chiro is working on a horse in the barn see if they will demonstrate some of them.

Beyond that....start saving your own pennies if you really think this is important. Why do your parents have to pay for it...save the money you get for your B-day or holidays...babysitting or other odd jobs.

:D

JWB
Jul. 31, 2009, 07:49 AM
Also, you might want to make sure that what you are seeing is truly a sign of needing an adjustment and not a "reflex"

There are some funny spots on a horses back that make them do funny things. I went through a bunch of pre-purchase exams last year and watched my vet push certain places or roll thing down the horses' backs and get HUGE responses that I thought were pain. She said it was normal and she'd be concerned if the horse didn't respond like that.

When I see something funny I ask my vet about it when she's out at the barn... She's usually okay to give me a "quick oppinion" if she's already there for something else. For what it's worth, I've used chiro on one of my dogs and it saved his show carreer. I've used it on horses with little to moderate success - Not that I don't think it's valid - I just think in the horses, I was trying to treat other issues that were NOT truly chiro related with chriopractic...

My thoughts on chiropractic treatment is they're probably not going to hurt anything and they might help... but don't count on it to be a silver bullet!

cloudyandcallie
Jul. 31, 2009, 07:58 AM
You will learn now that some horse owners do not do everything for their horses. I've learned that while boarding, and while I have wanted to help out, it is financially impossible to help out everyone else's horses. I've often offered to pay for vet bills, meds, training, etc., but have been turned down.

The riding academy that I took lessons at when I was a child took very good care of its horses. Most BOs though, have their favorite horses, who get everything, and the horses that they give less time and attention and care to. While I give all my dogs/cats/horses the same care and attention despite having some I like best, I have realized that some others do not do the same. Barn cats down here aren't treated as well as house cats, etc.

So save up your allowance or do chorses at the barn to pay for the chiro for the horse. Or if your parents can buy the horse, then you can have all the responsibilty for his care. My horses have never seen a chiro, but they have always seen the vet and farrier to excess.

Tiffani B
Jul. 31, 2009, 08:00 AM
All good points above. I want to touch on the "marketing" side, since that's my profession.

Usually any kind of seminar that is touted as "educational" has a sales slant to it, no matter how valuable the actual education is. If you attended a seminar on chiropractic care for the horse, the person in charge may have been showing conditions that most working horses have, and exaggerating their importance, to get you to spend money on an exam and adjustment - which of course leads to MORE adjustments.

I'm not knocking chiropractors - I use one for myself and my horse quite often. And your horse may very well need an adjustment or ten. But - it isn't a CURE for back pain and flexibility issues. It is a temporary fix. The pain ALWAYS comes back sooner or later, as long as the cause is still there. That cause could be the saddles on his back, the type of work he's doing, heck, even the bedding in his stall might be uncomfortable. You don't know.

Don't lose sleep over it. While it would probably help the horse to be adjusted monthly because of the amount of work he's doing as a school horse, it isn't going to make or break him. And since he's probably never been adjusted, only ONE visit from the chiro, which is maybe what you could pay for, won't do it at all. You'll need a series of them, consistently, to see results.

meupatdoes
Jul. 31, 2009, 08:20 AM
JWB- I would offer, but since I am still a minor, I have to somehow convince my parents. Even though it is a small amount, they feel that since my instructor owns the horse, she should pay, but...ugh.

What are you talking about you would have to convince them?

Do you run it by them every time you have $40 in your wallet and decide to spend $20 on dinner with friends and a movie?

Do you run it by them every time you want to spend $50 of your own money that is in your own wallet on a birthday present for a friend?

"Being a minor" has nothing to do with it.

Rustle up $86 in cash and be done with it.

mvp
Jul. 31, 2009, 08:25 AM
This is a great "practice" situation for you where you get to negotiate between your values, priorities and limits and those of other adults.

As others have said, one chiropractic treatment might not be a cure. But when you are on the horse, he is your responsibility, so you ought to embrace the moral obligation to do what you can for him.

That includes telling your trainer and asking her to pay for at least one treatment to see if it will help her horse.

It also includes asking your parent for the $$ or a loan. It also might include your explaining to them that the welfare of the horse comes ahead of whatever deal they made with the limited lease. If you feel this way, you need to stand up for the animal and let the chips fall where they will.

But finally, it may involve you putting the first $86 of your pay check toward the treatment.

Do what helps you sleep well at night, regardless of what any other adult chooses for him- or herself. This is how you become a good horsewoman-- at any age and to the extent you can.

thatmoody
Jul. 31, 2009, 08:28 AM
I have a gelding who has severe neurological problems (he's retired now at 8) and one of the signs that we noticed was that he DIDN'T react when we pushed areas on his back. There is a lot you can do with massage, too, to keep him comfortable till you can get a chiropracter in to look at him - my trainer (who also does some massage) taught me some simple exercises and stretches that I still do with him to keep him comfortable and mobile. The massage is particularly helpful for back soreness and loin problems - I do not pretend to be a therapist but I can do some simple stuff that is comforting to them and it makes ME feel better so I'm a more effective rider. :D

meupatdoes
Jul. 31, 2009, 10:23 AM
It also includes asking your parent for the $$ or a loan.

Why?

OP is SEVENTEEN.

She can
1.) get a job if for whatever reason she does not already have one

or

2.) save a portion of her allowance.


Are people seriously thinking that kids shouldn't be expected (to say nothing of allowed) to handle both the earning and the control of $86 until they are legal adults?

Good lord. $8,600 I could understand. $860....depends on the situation. No you can't go to Myrtle Beach for the weekend even if it is your own money, but if you want to buy a pair of Vogels so bad be my guest.

But $86??!!!

gottagrey
Jul. 31, 2009, 10:29 AM
Some horses are just goosey...and has nothing to do with "needing" an alignment or an adjustment. The horse is a school horse and sad as it is a school horse's life is different and can be difficult. I'm sure your trainer would love to spend the funds on chiropractic care for all of her horses but you have to understand the economics of it. I agree w/ Bornfreebutexpensive.. I hurt my back awhile back, went to a chiropractor - first trip in heaven, 2nd visit better, 3rd visit I could barely walk to my car... never went back

BuddyRoo
Jul. 31, 2009, 10:36 AM
Can you pick up a couple of babysitting jobs to put some extra cash in your pocket?


If I were in your shoes (though it's difficult for me to do because at your age I was working nearly full time as well)...but if I do....

Here's what I see.

1) You're concerned about the horse and want to do right by him.
2) Trainer/owner isn't that concerned.
3) You don't have money to pay for it.

So.

1) Kudos
2) Before you even address number three, you need to make sure that the owner of the horse will consent. This is a great opportunity to make a deal. "Trainer, if I can come up with the money to have him checked out by the chiro, will you consent? I really like this horse and if I can do something to make him more comfortable, I would like to."

3) If she agrees, then it's on to the money part. You should be able to make 100 bucks babysitting a few nights. Or talk to your folks and see if there's a home project they'd be willing to pay you to do.

To the MAX
Jul. 31, 2009, 10:45 AM
Sorry, but I agree with meupatdoes. You're 17. Old enough to work practially anywhere. I agree your parents shouldn't have to pay..but you should definitely be able to scrape up enough money!

Ghazzu
Jul. 31, 2009, 10:56 AM
Some horses are just goosey...and has nothing to do with "needing" an alignment or an adjustment. The horse is a school horse and sad as it is a school horse's life is different and can be difficult. I'm sure your trainer would love to spend the funds on chiropractic care for all of her horses but you have to understand the economics of it.

Although the economics of it might in this case include prolonging the career of what has been described as a very useful schoolie. A good workman cares for his tools.

SEP
Jul. 31, 2009, 10:58 AM
In these economic times the owner of the horse might not have the 86.00 to spen on chiropractic work, particularly if she is also the BO and needs to buy hay shavings nd pay the mortgage or her own health insurance. So it is her choice to spend her hard earned money on what she sees is in her and her businesses best interest. It is obviously not what you would choose, so you should earn the money, not by asking her to pay you or credit you for helping around the barn.In a situation where cash is tight a person helping for credit on something that the owner needs to pay for doesn't really help the owner out at all.

Reread some of the posts above particularly JWB and bornfreenowexpensive, and Tiffani B.

ALso make sure you are riding correctly not pounding on his back when you post using a driving seat when not nessacary, sitting evenly and making him work correctly from behind after a long warmup.

Also the BO probably has a lot more experience than you with horses and has chosen not to use the chiro because for her horse and her income it doesn't work. The fact that she said you could pay for it is generous to the horse, but since it is not in the contract it could cause a whole lot of other problems. Example you not thinking she is appreciative enough for what you did for her horse, even though she didn't think it was an absolute necessity for this horse. Hard feelings and trashing her program because you think she should of done some thing for one of her horses that she chose not to do.

It always amazes me that when some people who come in contact with some one elses animal over along period of time whether taking lessons on it or leasing it or just boarding next to it, think they have more to say about hte care of the animal than the owner. I am not talking about if the animal is being abused or starved, just things like this or the type of shoes the horse has etc.

Sorry for the long post, can you tell I have been in the owners shoes in this type of situation.

Lucassb
Jul. 31, 2009, 11:15 AM
A couple of additional thoughts to consider:

I have one horse that chiro helped enormously, and another for whom it was a complete waste of $$$. I do think it's worth checking out if you see clinical signs of soreness - particularly if it correlates with difficulties under saddle, as you've described. You should be aware, though, that often that kind of pain/soreness/stiffness is also a common symptom of hock problems - so what really might make the biggest difference is injections, and unfortunately, those are going to cost a lot more than $86. I'd seek a veterinary opinion before choosing the path to take.

I understand this is not part of your contract, but since you ARE paying for the use of this horse from a riding perspective... you could look at it in terms of making your riding time and lesson program as effective as possible. In other words, if you are continually paying for lessons to work on lateral exercises that the horse simply can't currently manage... you are flushing that lesson/lease money down the ol' bowl. If you could make 200% more progress with a truly sound, comfortable horse ... that might save you a year of doing the same lesson over and over again and getting nowhere. Make sense?

It is not unusual for horses to be MORE sore after chiro work - particularly if there has been a longstanding problem and the adjustments are significant. If you do get the chiro out (and I agree it will be on your dime) then ask about what to expect and whether there is anything you can do to minimize soreness or other discomfort.

For *some* horses, I have found massage and stretching as good or better than chiro adjustments; you might want to look into what one of those sessions cost and then learn how to do it yourself so it can be maintained.

Good luck!

AppendixQHLover
Jul. 31, 2009, 01:26 PM
$86 is cheap for a adjustment. I pay 180.00 every 2 months for my boy to get adjusted. He has improved dramatically in the 6 months that I have been doing it. We are working on building up those muscles where he is weak. The biggest problem we have had is the saddle fit. Now we found a sadle that fits and he is less ouchy.

SprinklerBandit
Jul. 31, 2009, 03:29 PM
I'm going to second and third what everyone else said. If you want this horse adjusted, get your rear in gear and earn some money. You're 17, which is plenty old enough to begin paying your own way. I understand if you don't get an allowance (I never did) but you can certainly find work, whether it's mowing lawns, babysitting, or a real, formal job.

As for your BO, lots of them don't have money to spend on "extras" for their horses right now. It's not that they don't want the best possible life for their horses. It's simply economics. The horse is fed, watered, exercised, and reasonably happy. He maybe could be happier, but then, I might be happier if I had a Porsche. We'll never know till we try.

LuvMyTB
Jul. 31, 2009, 03:37 PM
Honestly, I see this as a learning experience for the OP, and not in a financial sense.

If I were the OP, I would have a very polite/respectful discussion with the instructor...."We've talked about Pookie's possible need for a chiro session, but neither you or I have the money for it right now. I am still concerned that he is having issues performing the way you want us to because of this. What else can we do to help him get more comfortable so that we can both do our best?"

You've already talked about carrot stretches. Perhaps your instructor can do more warm-up work during your lessons, more long-and-low stuff, and limit the days per week/times per lesson you are asking him for the "hard" stuff--canter departures etc. Maybe the instructor or another student can do carrot stretches with him on the days you aren't there. It never hurts to explore other options.

Work with your instructor and figure out something that will satisfy you both.

To all of you who've berated the OP for being "controlled" by her parents--17 is close to grown-up, but not quite there. Especially with this generation (jeebus, did I just say that??), 17 I think is younger than it used to be. At that age, if I bought something expensive, my parents sure as hell questioned me about it and whether it was the best use of my money.

$86 was a lot of money to me then, and it's still a lot of money to me now (and I'm 27). Teenagers usually aren't rolling in dough, job or no job.

Finally--OP, please do not feel guilty about this. The horse is likely just fine, and probably not even uncomfortable--just has more difficulty with some things. If he was in pain, he'd be pinning his ears, snapping at you and probably bucking you off. He will be just fine without the chiro.

Tivas_a_Diva
Jul. 31, 2009, 03:43 PM
In the grand moral scheme of things, yes, the owner should get her horse looked at. And in a completely sensible world, there should be a lease contract that states who is responsible for what re: medical costs for this horse.

Realistically? You're the rider here. You have a choice: pay the $86.00 and have a sound horse who you can ride comfortably and in good conscience; Don't pay the $86.00 and deal with the guilt and further injury that are likely to come; Or, stop riding and leasing the horse and pass the responsibility on to his owner.

It's $86.00, you are his primary rider. I hear you on being upset that the owner wont do it, (a person who is unwilling to keep her lesson horses healthy doesn't sit right with me,) but you can sit around wishing it was being done, or you can do it.

Very sound advice here. Maybe threaten to stop leasing the horse if she doesn't have the issues looked at. Offer to pay half even. Something about this doesn't sit right with me.... :o/

meupatdoes
Jul. 31, 2009, 04:12 PM
To all of you who've berated the OP for being "controlled" by her parents--17 is close to grown-up, but not quite there. Especially with this generation (jeebus, did I just say that??), 17 I think is younger than it used to be.

Probably because everyone keeps coddling.

Oh, I can't afford to buy my daughterkins a six digit equitation horse and send her to WEF like some other parents, woe is us, this could really be traumatic for her, whatever shall we do, and all that. Everything must always be optimal for daughterkins and the playing field must always be level and many parents see it as their job to ensure that it is.

At that age, you're "as young" as you are permitted to be, and "as old" as you need to be.

Across Sicily
Jul. 31, 2009, 05:08 PM
Fwiw, my parents completely (and quite cheerfully) pulled all financial support for my horses when I was 16 (happy birthday to me!). Now, I kept mine at home, so the costs were somewhat minimal - shavings, grain, hay, various bits of tack and equipment they needed, show expenses, gas for hauling, fence repair, shoeing, vet, etc. Still. I was SIXTEEN and paying at LEAST $100 a month on stuff for my horses. (Of which there were three.) I, too, find myself confused as to why you, yourself, cannot pay to have this done if you feel it is sooooo important. Getting a job sucks, but McDonalds is always hiring, and people still need babysitters, and so on. Do you think you'll majickally have money when you turn 18? I ask because you keep mentioning this "minor" thing like it's the be-all end-all. If I wanted something as a teen, I saved up my pennies and bought it. Or I didn't buy it if I didn't feel it was something I *really* wanted. My parents were quite happy with that arrangement. ;) I didn't have to ASK to have the vet out, or to buy a new pair of jeans, or what have you. It's time to grow up and start being an adult. You'll be one in less than a year, anyway - isn't it about time?

Huntrs+eq
Jul. 31, 2009, 05:55 PM
I think that before you ask the question “Who should pay???” you should revisit some other points in your post. First of all, there’s this:

“[I]…noticed that he flinches along his loin area and croup when I groom him, heck I can just rest my hand there and he flinches. I feel terrible about it too, because this is not a new thing, I can't remember when it first started but it has been this way for quite awhile.”

Does this observation necessarily scream “my horse needs a chiropractor!”? Could it be a skin problem (rain rot?), just general soreness from riding (saddle fit?), or is he just a sensitive horse?

You say he has issues* under saddle and you claim he is in need of adjustment—right after attending a one-? two-? hour clinic which, apparently, makes you an expert? (Qualified to tell his owner that this is the treatment he needs?!) It’s almost like a confirmation bias where the horse’s past performance issues confirm what you think the diagnosis is.

However, how can you rule out other causes? [Does he need his hocks injected? Does he have arthritis/joint issues? Is he a worn out school horse that needs bute every once in a while? Is he just stubborn or are you not strong/insistent enough when riding him? Does his conformation naturally lend itself to soreness?]

In light of all these questions, I think a veterinarian would be the first person I’d call. Not the chiropractor…

Then again, it’s the trainer’s horse. In which case it would be worthwhile to visit with her, as you said you would do, to see what can be done or IF anything should be done. Caring for a string of school horses is $$$ and while, ideally, all “issues” would be looked into, realistically, for some school horses it is normal and acceptable to be not quite 100%.

*”The fact that he isn't right explains so many issues that just seem to not get better. Lateral work, mostly leg yielding is next to impossible, our canter departures, though I have been working on them for over a year are-although better- are still pretty blah.”


N.B. After re-reading my post, the tone sounded a little more “attackative” (where did that “word” come from?? :winkgrin:) than I intended but please don’t take it as such. I can tell you are only looking out for the best interest of the horse. :cool:

TSWJB
Jul. 31, 2009, 05:58 PM
1) i agree that if you think its that necessary then your are old enough to get a job and pay for it yourself! when i wanted a car at 17 years old, i walked down to the Channel Lumber Company and was a cashier and saved up enough money to buy a car and insurance. once i got the car i was able to get a better job!
2) it is very difficult to run a lesson barn with lesson horses. its expensive to maintain the horses. so unfortunately lesson horses arent going to get the extra care that private show horses might receive. it is not necessary to have a chiro out. may be nice, might work really well, but dobbin is going around giving lessons now, not limping, not starving, not bucking kids off. he may only be serviceably sound, but thats okay. he is a lesson horse. sometimes lesson horses end up that way because no one else wants them due to unsoundness. wouldnt it be better for him to be a lesson horse without chiro treatments than a horse at auction with the destination of Canada to go to a meat packing plant?

i ride lesson horses at a very big lesson barn. some of the horses may start out a little funny but they work out of it. actually a horse i rode on wed. started out feeling a bit funny. we did trot halt transitions and suddenly the horse felt great and we jumped around fantastic. maybe this horse would need some chiro to come out perfectly sound. but the horse is not limping. some stiffness. maybe a previous injury etc. it worked out of it.
i know that some of the lesson horses do get hock injections and expensive treatments but the owner has told me that it takes alot of lessons for the treatment to be paid for.
so dont think your instructor is cruel because she cannot treat every horse with chiro. maybe if she did, the lesson barn would go bankrupt and dobbin would be on his way to an auction.

heygirlhey33
Jul. 31, 2009, 07:11 PM
First off yayy you for thinking about whats best for your horse and being observant and caring.

One question: Did your trainer say specifically that she thinks the horse needs a chiro? I'm saying this based off my horse. He has a little bit of a weak back, and we keep him happy with the equisage machine (especially at multi week away shows), and chiro and acupuncture. But even after all of this ( and a custom saddle for his back) he still pins his ears when you touch certain areas. Of course as a over involved mother this upset me thinking he is sore. Both My trainer (who is all about doing what ever it takes for the horses to be happy and who has known my horse for 5 years) and our vet assured me that nothing could be done about it, and that in their opinions they think he is just being his dramatic little self ( hes the type who sulks if you dont give him treats, whinnies when being presented with awards, and will let you know clearly if there is even something miniscule wrong).

You said the horse is a quarter horse. does he go around with his head held low and weak from behind? or does he go with a nice flex to his neck and stays on the bit? Once again I return to my horse, as he him self is a western pleasure breed thrown into AA level hunters (and pretty darn good at it) who likes going western style once in a while. When my trainer went to Wef I pretty much just let my horse go around with little contact and his head low, after a while of this we noticed his back would get sore and his lack of neck muscles became. Then as soon as my main trainer came home he made me keep buckles in a frame, and voila my horsies now muscular neck, helped him strengthen up his back, and now he is much less sensitive and I notice he has a stronger push from behind. Maybe if you ride him long and low this could be the problem for him as well, and proper stretching with work on the bit could be a cheap way to help him feel stronger and less sore.

dghunter
Aug. 1, 2009, 01:38 AM
Just as an fyi some of us at the age of 17 could not have a job. I went to school about an hour away from my house because it was the closest private school and the public school was going through huge budget cuts. I went in with my Dad because he worked nearby so we often didn't arrive home until 6. At that point it was eat dinner, go ride, and then go do homework. I did babysit as often as I could but the jobs that were near me would not let you only work on weekends and not during the week. Just throwing that out there. I realize it is an extreme case.

Cloverbarley
Aug. 1, 2009, 09:29 AM
IF the horse really needs to see the chiro, and neither of you can afford the cost, why don't you split it? She, as owner, can put her portion over, you, as the rider, can pay your bit. Seems a simple solution to me.

As an aside, I really can't be doing with people bickering about who is responsible for this or that, gosh if the horse needs seeing to, surely someone will do the honourable thing? :confused:

Bogie
Aug. 1, 2009, 09:37 AM
Good for you for being concerned about the horse. Now, take a deep breath. It sounds to me like this horse is well cared for, just that your instructor doesn't have "extras" in the budget.

My horses do not get chiropractic care and they are fine. I believe I take excellent care of them. One got chiropractic adjustments for a specific injury about 8 years ago and that's it.

Yes, some horses do get ouchy or tight. You can learn some simple massage techniques that will help release areas where your horse is tight in his back or hamstrings that will make him more comfortable or use some stretching techniques.

My suggestion? Go to the library and get out a book on horse massage. Go onto YouTube and look up horse massage and horse stretches (there are some good videos there that show techniques). If you want to spring for a good DVD look at Jim Masterson's on Accupressure techniques.

There is a lot that you can do to help make your leased horse more comfortable that doesn't cost much . . . and that will help you learn more about how to care for horses.

Don't sweat it if you can't afford chiropractic care. Focus on what you can do for him and he'll appreciate your efforts.

To the MAX
Aug. 2, 2009, 12:22 AM
Just as an fyi some of us at the age of 17 could not have a job. I went to school about an hour away from my house because it was the closest private school and the public school was going through huge budget cuts. I went in with my Dad because he worked nearby so we often didn't arrive home until 6. At that point it was eat dinner, go ride, and then go do homework. I did babysit as often as I could but the jobs that were near me would not let you only work on weekends and not during the week. Just throwing that out there. I realize it is an extreme case.

It's summer in the US where most posters on this board are from...there's always summer jobs. Always.

dghunter
Aug. 2, 2009, 12:45 AM
It's summer in the US where most posters on this board are from...there's always summer jobs. Always.

Actually I tried to find a summer job the summer after I graduated and could not find one. I applied at about 10 different places, mostly restaurants and the mall because that's all that's near me and none of them hired me. I did, however, end up finding a summer nanny gig though and that worked out really well. It did not pay a whole lot but it was tax free :D It was MUCH easier finding a job once I moved on campus :yes:

magnolia73
Aug. 2, 2009, 09:26 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You will learn now that some horse owners do not do everything for their horses. I've learned that while boarding, and while I have wanted to help out, it is financially impossible to help out everyone else's horses. I've often offered to pay for vet bills, meds, training, etc., but have been turned down.

Yes, because sometimes there is simply not the money. Yes it is "only" $86. But consider- chiro often takes more than one visit, so it is likely adding $86 a month to your bill. This supplement is "only" $50 a month. That suplement is "only" $60 a month. Adding equipac to a shoeing is "only" $100 a month. The best fitting saddle is "only" $3500.

So all these extras which do help add up. Which may or may not fit the owner's budget. To be certain, it would be great if all horses could be that well maintained, but for many of us, our budget says otherwise. I'd love to get regular chiro for my horse, but right now, she runs $215 a month to shoe. The money isn't there. It may not be there for your trainer. It's not that she is mean or a bad horsewoman, its likely that she has a finite amount of money each month and other priorities.

If it is that important to you, pay for it yourself. If you can't work, maybe ask your parent's to let you skip a show and apply the entry fees to the treatment.

To the MAX
Aug. 2, 2009, 11:14 AM
Actually I tried to find a summer job the summer after I graduated and could not find one. I applied at about 10 different places, mostly restaurants and the mall because that's all that's near me and none of them hired me. I did, however, end up finding a summer nanny gig though and that worked out really well. It did not pay a whole lot but it was tax free :D It was MUCH easier finding a job once I moved on campus :yes:

Lol so I really don't get your point. You ended up finding a summer job. Like I said...they're always out there.

dghunter
Aug. 2, 2009, 12:13 PM
Lol so I really don't get your point. You ended up finding a summer job. Like I said...they're always out there.

Well I was thinking you meant not babysitting wise, but like a real job. Babysitting jobs can be hard to come by depending on the area, especially if you don't have experience and your red cross certification and a car. If you were including things like babysitting and mowing lawns then yes it can be fairly easy to find a job :yes: There's always someone, somewhere who doesn't want to do something and is willing to pay someone else to do it :lol:

This Is It
Aug. 2, 2009, 04:41 PM
Okay, I talked to my instructor and we discussed some of the potential things and what we both agreed on was using the stretches the chiro recommends each time she comes out here.

I have been sufficiently humbled about my whining :o and I have been trying to get a job. Honestly. The problem is, my parents. My mom is super protective and not very approving of many things. I'll just leave it at that.

However, I will say that after doing the stretches with my horse, he seemed much better. I do them before and after I ride now and he is much happier. He was probably just tight. (Way to go me for getting paranoid.)

And to whoever posted that some people think they know more than the owner about the horse, I approached the subject with more of a "Hey, why does he do this?" rather than a "Pookie needs to be seen by the chiro." I understand that the owner (in most cases) knows best.

Also, the reason I kept mentioning the minor thing is because once I'm 18, my over-protective mother will not be able to keep me from getting a job because 'It's too far away.' 'Not enough money/not worth your time.' etc.


So, I hope that cleared everything up and I'll know better than to whine about problems if I haven't already explored every possible solution.



:)

Bogie
Aug. 2, 2009, 06:46 PM
Kudos to you for caring about the horse.

As someone I used to work for told me, there is no such thing as a stupid question.

You might not always like the answers you get on this board but you will always get plenty of them ;).

Stretches will probably really help the horse.

Good luck!

MissIndependence
Aug. 2, 2009, 11:33 PM
If you lease the horse, you should be financially responsible for his chiropractic adjustments.

Ditto....as the person leasing the horse, this maintenance is your resposibility - not the owner/trainer. Once you lease a horse, you take over ALL costs (both routine and vet related) unless detailed otherwise in your lease agreement.

AndNirina
Aug. 3, 2009, 12:42 AM
I'm glad to hear that the stretches are working for the old guy. Stretching is very helpful and important. Although you mentioned that your chiro showed you some stretches, I thought you may be interested in this link:

http://www.sporthorse.tv/video/ac2280047e837c99c152/@@shadowplayer

It's done by the chiropractor that adjusts my mare.. he's amazing and this is an interesting walk-through of the stretches he recommends.

bornfreenowexpensive
Aug. 3, 2009, 02:12 PM
Also, the reason I kept mentioning the minor thing is because once I'm 18, my over-protective mother will not be able to keep me from getting a job because 'It's too far away.' 'Not enough money/not worth your time.' etc.




LOL...trust me...turning 18 isn't going to stop her! Not until you move out of your parent's house and are on your own....and even then, she will ALWAYS be your mother. Better to learn the skills to manage her better....convincing her that you do care about her opinions and have considered all options.

Glad the stretches are helping your horse. While Chrio can be a good thing....remember that most Chrio practitioners WILL always say it is a good thing...they are selling a service whether they realize that is what they are doing or not. Life is full of wants and needs.....more wants than needs;)...an important life skill is learning to know the difference between the two so you can have the right priorities within your given financial limitations...and not have guilt/or other emotions just because you can't have afford all the things you want.

Leather
Aug. 3, 2009, 02:41 PM
Here are some basic tips for palpating a horse's back for soreness:

http://www.american-flex.com/Saddling%20basic.htm