My Broodmare got Drug Tested at Upperville!

[Summit Springs Farm]

Can you believe that a broodmare!!

Anyone else ever been drug tested by USEF in the hunter breeding divsions??

The vet was very business like and I had to sign some papers and so did my handler, sorry Chip!

Do you think it was at all political?

[MrWinston]

We had in hand horses tested a number of times as well as having performance horses tested more often than seemed average. I was very suspicious because it happened after we beat a very famous yearling owned by very politically connected people. We also had the AHSA (when it was still called that) question a medication report that I filed for our yearling at the very show that he beat the famous colt. The show secretary contacted me months later to warn me that it seemed to her that someone was trying to discredit us. Fortunately, my vet and the Steward with whom I filed the report came to my defense and nothing came of it.

So although it sounds ludicrous that someone would be that vindictive about their horse losing in the breed ring, it just might happen.

[VirginiaBred]

The larger shows drug test. It's not unusual.

[avadog]

I don't think it's a bad thing. We have a hunter breeding trainer out here who give "vitamins" to her horses for hunter breeding and miraculously the wild babies outside the ring stand like stone no matter what is going on. More then likely she's using "legal" drugs but it's always good for the sake of the horses to test.

[Summit Springs Farm]

Yea well, my mare WON the broodmare class and was Reserve Champoin in the Cismont Manor Memorial, and we're from GA. Seems alittle fishy to me.

[MrWinston]

We high tailed it back to NY in fear of men wearing sheets.

[VirginiaBred]

Not sure why the negative comments. Seriously, you were not the only breeding folks to have your animals tested at that show.

[not again]

We love it when there is drug testing. But then we have nothing to hide. The sport needs to maintain a level playing field, and it is done randomly, picking both winners and non-winners. Don't take it personally!

[Summit Springs Farm]

VB I'm just teasing, I grew up in Middleburg and went to Hill school, Upperville was a local show for us.

What surprised me was that a broodmare would be tested, that's all, it made me worry about my yearling being tested, I would hate to have to draw her blood unnecessarily. She's just a baby.

BTW We have nothing to hide either, we only drug our horses at home for our private amusement.:winkgrin:

[Irish Ei's]

My BO's colt was tested at a Local Series last year.
I don't see any problem here.

[VirginiaBred]

SSF, I will say that the mama's aren't the ones that get checked that often.......

[VirginiaBred]

we only drug our horses at home for our private amusement.:winkgrin:


:lol:

[lauriep]

Yea well, my mare WON the broodmare class and was Reserve Champoin in the Cismont Manor Memorial, and we're from GA. Seems alittle fishy to me.

Oh, please. The testers have been at Upperville more times than not, and the winner is usually the one they test. I highly doubt that there was a conspiracy against an unknown broodmare from GA. The mare who was second has won the last two years, and was tested one of them.

Why are you bringing this up now? Upperville was at the beginning of JUNE.

[chunky munky]

Agree with Lauriep. No conspiracy, they just show up when told and test what is going on at the moment. It is often on the weekend it seems and yes, they do tend to test the winners, but not always. The people doing the testing are vets and sometimes vet students. They don't have a clue who you or your horses are.

[Summit Springs Farm]

Laurie, I was bored and it raining here and I am procrastinating!!!

I really was just wondering if it was very common and had other's HB been tested...
Really I am worried about showing my yearling now that I know its a possibility she would have blood drawn.
Does anyone else worry about drawing blood from a yearling?

[M. O'Connor]

VB I'm just teasing, I grew up in Middleburg and went to Hill school, Upperville was a local show for us.

What surprised me was that a broodmare would be tested, that's all, it made me worry about my yearling being tested, I would hate to have to draw her blood unnecessarily. She's just a baby.

BTW We have nothing to hide either, we only drug our horses at home for our private amusement.:winkgrin:

ALL horses at a horse show are governed by the rules which state that they are all, each and every one, subject to testing.

If your baby was selected for testing, it wouldn't have had blood drawn "unnecessarily;" blood would be drawn for the purposes of the test, as your mare's was. They sometimes will select ribbon winners, or sometimes just random exhibitor numbers. It seemed to me that they were doing both there.

The testers, I have been told (because I've made a point of asking, at the USEF steward's clinics) are vets, not students. They aren't normally a chatty bunch...pretty much all business when I've come across them, and don't strike me in the least as likely to be drawn into anything "political."

Indeed, it was awhile ago. I mentioned their being there on the original Upperville HB thread, and got nary a response in response, that I saw. So, yah.. why now?

[Kimberlee]

Okay, dumb question here, but don't you pay a drug fee to enter into a rated in-hand show? Wouldn't that mean that they can drug test any horse (weanling, yearling, etc.)?

Several years ago our barn went to an in-hand show at the old Thunderbird location, and had two of out eleven horses drug tested. They were both older (one was three, and the other a broodmare who was winning every class she entered). They just got urine samples from both of them, but that was over 10 years ago. I haven't paid any attention to any drug testing happening at the in-hand shows I have been to recently since I haven't personally had horses entered.

[Showpony]

What is the big deal about a yearling getting blood drawn? They have to get a coggins and it's not like they get tested everyday.

[lauriep]

Laurie, I was bored and it raining here and I am procrastinating!!!

I really was just wondering if it was very common and had other's HB been tested...
Really I am worried about showing my yearling now that I know its a possibility she would have blood drawn.
Does anyone else worry about drawing blood from a yearling?

Does your yearling not have a Coggins test? Blood would have been drawn for that. Why would you worry about that? Just another thing they have to learn if they are going to be competitive horses.

[Summit Springs Farm]

My main purpose was to ask how common or how many of you have experienced getting tested... the other was just for fun:lol: girls!

I didn't really think it was political nor was I unaware it is a possibility for my filly to be tested.

My filly hasn't shown since Upperville and she is about to start showing again next month, as now that I have experienced my mare being tested, it concerns me and I was wondering what the chances might be that the filly would be tested or again what you ladies have experienced.

I know its no big deal, but this filly is my first and I love her :Dand don't want her to have her blood drawn. Obviously I have to decide it I want to risk it.

SO tell me any one else tested?

[Dinah-do]

curious - what are you risking?

[Janet]

Really I am worried about showing my yearling now that I know its a possibility she would have blood drawn.
Does anyone else worry about drawing blood from a yearling?

Doesn't your yearling have blood drawn for the Coggins test?

No, I wouldn't worry about drawing blood on a yearling.

[Cloverbarley]

No I don't have a problem with blood being drawn from any of my horses if needs be. It's just one of those things that happen and I can't see the big deal myself.

[Janet]

I love her :Dand don't want her to have her blood drawn

Why not?

[lauriep]

My main purpose was to ask how common or how many of you have experienced getting tested... the other was just for fun:lol: girls!

I didn't really think it was political nor was I unaware it is a possibility for my filly to be tested.

My filly hasn't shown since Upperville and she is about to start showing again next month, as now that I have experienced my mare being tested, it concerns me and I was wondering what the chances might be that the filly would be tested or again what you ladies have experienced.

I know its no big deal, but this filly is my first and I love her :Dand don't want her to have her blood drawn. Obviously I have to decide it I want to risk it.

SO tell me any one else tested?

She showed at the Atlanta Summer Classic in late June, after Upperville.

We all love our horses, but I can't remember ANYONE having an issue with having blood drawn. Why do you? Why are you making such a big deal out of a process that we all pay for every time we enter? If you are planning on showing at Warrenton, I would say that there is a distinct possibility they will test there.

"Do you think it was at all political?" - if you don't really think it was political, why did you ask this in your original post?

And to answer your question, our horse that won the 2 y.o. non-TB colt class also had his blood drawn that day.

[BeastieSlave]

Okay, I don't have much to say about testing other than I would expect there to be a possibility that any horse at a show might get tested.

The drawing blood from a yearling thing made me laugh and I had to post.... Last year when my guy (the best baby ever in the whole wide world, who I love more than anything) was a yearling, I used him to brush up on my 'vein hitting' skills. The vet was out and he gave me a sort of refresher on the baby. That youngster's got great veins and stands like a rock for anything I want to do to him :D That day he stood obediently while I jabbed him a few times. What a good boy!
I guess I'm a really bad mom ;)

[sid]

When you show a horse in a recognized show, one enters into that arrangement know full -well the horse may be tested.

Am I missing something here? I'm not sure what the big deal is.

[Merle]

It's random and you pay the drug testing fee at the USEF shows so why not get your moneys worth. You shouldn't have anything to lose!

Just an FYI, vetrolin is on the prohibited list. Most people don't know that.

[Beethoven]

Just an FYI, vetrolin is on the prohibited list. Most people don't know that.

Actually vetrolin is fine to use. USEF made a special statement about that.;)

http://usef.org/_IFrames/newsdisplay/viewPR.aspx?id=4157

[mrd]

my horse has been tested at Upperville twice.

They pulled the top two finishers in the class each time.

The state vet has also patrolled the grounds asking to see copies of coggins in the stall areas. I like that they do that. I have nothing to hide.

Be glad its blood and not urine. who wants to stand around all day for that....;)

[M. O'Connor]

Why not?

You could always offer your arm in place of her neck!;):lol:

[M. O'Connor]

The state vet has also patrolled the grounds asking to see copies of coggins in the stall areas. I like that they do that. I have nothing to hide.

I might not have anything to hide, but my Coggins would more likely be back in my truck, or at home than in the barn area. I would probably just refer him to the show secretary who'd taken a copy to keep on file.

[YankeeLawyer]

When I was showing regularly, we got tested from time to time - maybe once a year or so - not that often. Sometimes I asked the testers out of curiosity how they chose which horses to test. One time I was told it was because my horse was sooo quiet. Okay, fair enough (and they found out he was naturally that way). Another time the tester said she picked my horse because he had a really cool blaze. And on another occasion, because we had won an important class, and they were trying to ensure the integrity of the results. No big deal.

[YankeeLawyer]

I know its no big deal, but this filly is my first and I love her :Dand don't want her to have her blood drawn.

Why on earth not? It's not like she is going to spring a leak. Anyway, it would be better for her to be accustomed to basic vet procedures so that she can cope in a real emergency requiring vet attention than to keep her as a hothouse flower.

[ThatScaryChick]

I know its no big deal, but this filly is my first and I love her :Dand don't want her to have her blood drawn. Obviously I have to decide it I want to risk it.

But if your filly placed in the event and you wanted to keep your placing/winnings, you would have to allow her to be tested. You couldn't just refuse the test. Or, I guess you could, but they would probably take your win away.

[ise@ssl]

Well considering the fact we all pay LOTS OF MONEY for these drug tests on our entries - it's nice to know they are actually doing them.!!! We've only had horses drug tested at performance shows but I know they do them at breed shows as well.

[MrWinston]

The only time I felt put out about it was when a horse had done one division and was entered in the Green Conf. and I asked them to wait until the horse was done showing. They had him in a stall waiting for urine and almost caused him to miss the model class. The rule specifically states that they are not to interfere with the horse's performance. It was a young woman vet who didn't seem to understand that a horse wasn't necessarily done for the day after a "schooling" division. I did get even at the end of the day when they tried to get urine from my husband's A/O horse who I knew would never urinate with a stranger crouched in his stall. They finally gave up and he promptly urinated as soon as he was loaded onto the van.

[Bats79]

You know it might be rare but sometimes horses do have reactions to having blood drawn, even under the best of circumstances they can get infections etc.

And sometimes youngsters, if accidentally hurt in the process, can decide they don't like something and start to act up.

So there is no harm in wondering "how often" a horse might have blood taken in a showing season. It doesn't mean you have something to hide but rather that you do expect Murphy's Law to come into play sooner or later.

[lauriep]

In this country, you never know when the testers will show up. So you have to assume it is a possibility at EVERY show you go to. Regardless of the age of the horse. I've seen vets, at home, do bad sticks, too, so it certainly is no bigger a possibility at the show than at home. It would never deter me from showing a baby. They have to have a Coggins to show, so they've had at least one draw in their life already.

[LockeMeadows]

We've have our babies tested a few times (not that often, but seems to happen more at the bigger shows). I don't mind them sticking any of mine from foal to broodmare. It helps keep the ring clean. :yes:

[Summit Springs Farm]

[QUOTE=YankeeLawyer;4271681]Why on earth not? It's not like she is going to spring a leak. :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Tackpud]

Not to change the subject... SummitSprings - when were you at Hill? I'm a '78 alum so just wondering.

[SidesaddleRider]

A friend of mine had her orphaned foal tested at Upperville a few years ago. They specifically said that they chose her because she was SO quiet (she just stood there in the class while the other foals were cavorting around their moms). :) Results were negative of course. Unfortunately the filly got some auto-immune problem a few weeks later that caused her to start molting and lose all her hair, and then her skin started slaughing off (never did find out what it was) and didn't make it. :no:

[not again]

Drug testing came about as a result of unscrupulous people drugging horses. Many people fought long and hard to institute it, and some suffered dire consequences. It was and is a deterrent to cheating. If you don't want your horse tested, it would be wise to stay home.

[TrueColours]

Be glad its blood and not urine. who wants to stand around all day for that....


Obviously you need to perfect your "whistle" and its VERY quick! :lol:

Anyone who has ever had anything to do with race horses, learns how to whistle in the right tone and frequency to get the job done as quickly as possible ... ;)

[Fairview Horse Center]

My colt was tested at Upperville about 10 years ago. I had no problem with them pulling blood, but I was seriously upset at having to wait for MANY hours while they tried to see if they could get urine too. I was only there for a single class, and my friends that were helping me wanted to load and go home, not spend our entire day standing to see if the colt would pee! He never did, and they finally left us go home about 3-4 hours later.

[Summit Springs Farm]

Tackpub I graduated in "73, in 8th grade, they have a HS now I hear.

[Hunter_Rider]

My 2 year old was also tested at Upperville this year, as well as last year when he was a yearling. It's really no big deal, just a pain in the ass, because they had to follow us around until we were done with the Breeding championship class.

[AdAblurr02]

So, if we are showing a weanling filly (she will still be suckling at show dates) whose mom has a bum leg - in-hand, baby classes - if mom is given Bute to make her more comfortable with being dragged around to show the kid, will they allow for any pass-through of the Bute given to mom? Do I need vet papers for mama's sore leg meds?

[dr j]

Laurie, I was bored and it raining here and I am procrastinating!!!

I really was just wondering if it was very common and had other's HB been tested...
Really I am worried about showing my yearling now that I know its a possibility she would have blood drawn.
Does anyone else worry about drawing blood from a yearling?

Most USEF drug testers test multiple disciplines. Sometimes that means they have no personal knowledge of that discipline and that is a good thing. Horses are chosen in a variety of ways and almost never based on "who" they are etc. Usually it's entirely random other than it's usually a winner or someone who places ( although you can test any horse on the show grounds) and often based on manpower, the flow of the show, how quickly (or not) horses urinate etc. As far as testing a yearling- most USEF testers are are pretty good with venipuncture and it shouldn't be an issue. In fact some of the "round the block" ponies pose the biggest challenge.

You pay for this service every time you enter, it's nice to see it utilized.

Ask me how I know so much about this:D

[lauriep]

So, if we are showing a weanling filly (she will still be suckling at show dates) whose mom has a bum leg - in-hand, baby classes - if mom is given Bute to make her more comfortable with being dragged around to show the kid, will they allow for any pass-through of the Bute given to mom? Do I need vet papers for mama's sore leg meds?

I have never seen them test a foal. I guess it could happen, but I would be surprised.

[Ladybug Hill]

My mare was tested when she showed/won at Upperville. She was a yearling at the time. I don't recall it being a big deal. Frankly, if a yearling can handle the mane pulling, braiding, bathing, trailering and the environment of a big show then they can handle having a blood draw.

[MagicHillFarm]

If any of you have a question at any time of the day or night (weekends included) regarding drugs & meds questions for USEF shows, this is the phone number you want to call: 1800 633-2472.

I have found it extremely useful and always have it in my show info book and my cell phone. You can call them to ask about certain products and their ingredients (Ex-Stress, Perfect Prep, vetrolin, etc) if you ever have a question of what the guidelines are so you won't mistakenly given something in an illegal dose or combination or whatever. Better safe than sorry!


AdaBlurr02---call that number and one of the USEF reps will very happily give you the "guidelines" of Bute administration for a show...

[horserider12]

Just to clarify the vetrolin, bigeloil and many of the other items on the restricted list, they are restricted if the ingredients are taken internally. Vetrolin and such put on a horses legs are not illegal. We had a clinic with a usef drug testing vet recently and were very enlightened by some of the info he gave us. Dr. swinebroad is quite knowledgeable and if you have a club or pha you should get him to give a clinic for you. As far as drug testing for hunter breeding, my horse has been tested a few times, and I hadn't even done my class yet. Any horse on showgrounds can be tested, whether showing or not, so beware of drugs given to horses on non showing days as well. We were told that those people that scratch their horses when the drug testers show up can still be tested. Any horse on the showgrounds, which was good to learn as we have all taken young horses for the first time and many people thought it was okay to tranq. since they weren't showing. The vet informed us that these horses can be tested as well.

[YankeeLawyer]

Just to clarify the vetrolin, bigeloil and many of the other items on the restricted list, they are restricted if the ingredients are taken internally. Vetrolin and such put on a horses legs are not illegal. We had a clinic with a usef drug testing vet recently and were very enlightened by some of the info he gave us. Dr. swinebroad is quite knowledgeable and if you have a club or pha you should get him to give a clinic for you. As far as drug testing for hunter breeding, my horse has been tested a few times, and I hadn't even done my class yet. Any horse on showgrounds can be tested, whether showing or not, so beware of drugs given to horses on non showing days as well. We were told that those people that scratch their horses when the drug testers show up can still be tested. Any horse on the showgrounds, which was good to learn as we have all taken young horses for the first time and many people thought it was okay to tranq. since they weren't showing. The vet informed us that these horses can be tested as well.

But if a product like vetrolin is used on the legs, wouldn't the blood still test positive? How are they to know whether it was used internally or externally?

[lauriep]

The USEF rules allow for certain amounts of some substances, such as those found in Vetrolin, that normal use of (after ride baths) will not exceed. They have found these levels to not impact the horses' performance. You can also administer some things as long as they are declared before the competition on the drugs/meds form. FEI, on the other hand, has a true zero tolerance, and will not allow ANY levels of ANY substances that they have identified.

This is why our drug rules are eons ahead of the antiquated good ole' boy institution called the FEI.

[PineTreeFarm]

http://www.usef.org/_IFrames/newsdisplay/viewPR.aspx?id=4157

USEF's discussion of liniment use.

[YankeeLawyer]

Thanks, guys.

[CoolMeadows]

Good to know about Vetrolin, it's a long time fave.

But really, don't worry about being selected. It is supposed to be random. Last time I was selected my A/O horse was in his 20's & had already won the class (he's an extremely enthusiastic guy, what can I say?). And that's just what they said ' "woah, he looked so dang happy!". Take it as a compliment and roll with it, what else can you do??

Here's a suggestion though, brought up by Fairview's story of leaving. Do NOT agree to the Lasix injection. I did and my good pony was totally drained the next day. My bad, my fault, didn't know better, whatever. Just don't do it. No reason to allow another drug in while they attempt to seek theirs. I've always felt guilty about letting them give my old man anything, especially after he felt so punky the next day. Don't take any of it personally and don't be overly accomodating! Any horse on the grounds is opening themselves up to being a target so really, don't be shocked that you were picked. Just protect your horses. I was afraid I'd be fined if my boy didn't tinkle. I'd been tested plenty before and he'd always "let loose" after a whistle, so I was afraid I'd be set down if I didn't say yes to the Lasix and it wasn't expained that I wouldn't be. Just an FYI for next time (get used to it if your boy's a winner!)

[lauriep]

I've never had them want to give Lasix. If they don't pee fairly promptly, they draw blood and that is the end of it.

[CBoylen]

I've been asked pretty often if I will let them give Lasix. I have never agreed, and the testers have been perfectly accommodating about going without the urine sample. There's no pressure to give the Lasix.

[Fairview Horse Center]

In my case, they pulled blood right away, and then waited hours to try to get a urine sample too. Lasix was never mentioned.

[AdAblurr02]

MagicHillFarm,

Thanks very much!
I'll be calling them Monday AM!

If any of you have a question at any time of the day or night (weekends included) regarding drugs & meds questions for USEF shows, this is the phone number you want to call: 1800 633-2472.

I have found it extremely useful and always have it in my show info book and my cell phone. You can call them to ask about certain products and their ingredients (Ex-Stress, Perfect Prep, vetrolin, etc) if you ever have a question of what the guidelines are so you won't mistakenly given something in an illegal dose or combination or whatever. Better safe than sorry!


AdaBlurr02---call that number and one of the USEF reps will very happily give you the "guidelines" of Bute administration for a show...