Line breeding to a dam line or a special mare?

[stolensilver]

Has anyone done any line breeding to a dam line or even to one particular mare? How did it turn out? Is it something you'd try or not? How many generations back was the linebreeding?

[Sacha]

I am planning to. I have been lucky enough to have some mares from the Cornau family and one of my fillies from that line I would like to breed to Imperio, who is by Connery, who is from the Cornau dam line.
Casi is a great-great grand daughter of Cornau, and Imperio is a great-grandson of Cornau, so its not too close but the great mare will be doubled up on.

[stolensilver]

That sounds mouthwatering! Are you planning to do this next year?

The lines I'm thinking about are the Minka line (damline of Totilas and loads of top class showjumpers) or the mare Texas (dam of Flemmingh, Littorio and two other stallions) or Silvermoon's dam line. Do you have any opinions about any of those?

[Sacha]

I dont know enough about Dutch breeding to comment.

But yes the plan is to put Casi in foal next year, and Imperio is top of the list for her!

[stolensilver]

Good luck! That should turn out to be a fantastic foal. :)

[vineyridge]

In thoroughbreds it's done all the time and usually works quite well. In sport, the best example linebreeding on Bonne Cause, which created the Twist line of showjumping horses. The linebreeding was very close. She had a son Bonne Nuit and a daughter, Brave Bonnie. Brave Bonnie was bred to Bonne Nuit and Bonne Nuit's son, Night Lark. She was also bred to Great War to produce Sisterly Love, who was bred back to Bonne Nuit to produce New Twist. There has been some speculation over the years that Sisterly Love was actually a Bonne Nuit foal.
http://www.pedigreequery.com/new+twist

Another example, off the top of my head, was the great American racehorse Buckpasser. He was a great grandson tail female of La Troienne. When he was bred to other tail female descendants of hers, he produced his best daughters, both as race horses and broodmares--Numbered Account and Relaxing. However, the breeding based on La Troienne in tail female was not always as successful, and it was tried quite often.

Forgot to mention that there are a couple of TB breeding theories based on the repetition of exceptional mares in the pedigree. One is based on Dennis Craig's Racehorse Breeding from Cluster Mares, which advocates line breeding on mares who appear at least five time in the six generation pedigrees of international class race winners (British and American Triple Crown races for example) and packing the pedigree with as many of these as one can get going back to the beginnings of the breed. The other theory is based on something called The Rasmussen Factor. That one you can google if you are at all interested. It also has to do with breeding to exceptional mares through sex balanced siblings.

[pintopiaffe]

well, sort of... not *truly* yet, but the line breeding I'm doing is through the damline on both sides--but it's to a stallion. If that makes sense. *Alladdinn is the grandsire of both mares. That has worked incredibly. Absolutely predictable results--and each foal is better than both sire and dam.

I plan to strictly line breed the damline next year or year after. Granddaughter to son. Outcross breed on 1/4 of the pedigree so it's not as close as it sounds. I am doing it to hopefully solidify the predictability of inheritance of the incredible movement of the granddam/dam. We'll see. If it works, it'll be linebreeding. If not... well, you know. :uhoh: :lol:

[Equilibrium]

I can only speak of TB's, but I have a filly who has 3 crosses of the same dam line. One through her sire Marju, one through her dam Twilight Patrol, and one through her dam sire Robellino. All three are from the Aloe line. Round Table hails from this line too.

Won't know if she's any good until next year!:)

Terri

[Sakura Hill Farm]

We deliberately chose to linebreed our first homebred filly Della Joia Bella S on the Dutch -niki mareline by using Consul on our Ana Bella. We are exceedingly happy with the result which can be seen on our website under "Young Horses". The proof of the pudding will be seen when she is put into training by her owner who bought her as a Grand Prix prospect.
We intend to repeat this kind of linebreeding with the -niki line as well as with others such as Opaline des Pins in the BWP. It requires generational thinking and time to develop those generations, however.
Here is the link to the pedigree---- http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/della+joia+bella


"Forgot to mention that there are a couple of TB breeding theories based on the repetition of exceptional mares in the pedigree. One is based on Dennis Craig's Racehorse Breeding from Cluster Mares, which advocates line breeding on mares who appear at least five time in the six generation pedigrees of international class race winners (British and American Triple Crown races for example) and packing the pedigree with as many of these as one can get going back to the beginnings of the breed. The other theory is based on something called The Rasmussen Factor. That one you can google if you are at all interested. It also has to do with breeding to exceptional mares through sex balanced siblings."

Thank you Vineyridge for the references---it will give us some good reading these summer evenings.

[ambar]

Well, here's the pedigree of my special mare, which is a little poem to the significant mare Portia:

http://allbreedpedigree.com/petit+point+cf

And here is the pedigree of her 2009 filly -- note the sire is also linebred to a significant mare, Ceres in his case:

http://allbreedpedigree.com/ada+selene

Stallions get a lot of noise and glory (I'm as guilty as any), but the mares do the work.

[Equilibrium]

We deliberately chose to linebreed our first homebred filly Della Joia Bella S on the Dutch -niki mareline by using Consul on our Ana Bella. We are exceedingly happy with the result which can be seen on our website under "Young Horses". The proof of the pudding will be seen when she is put into training by her owner who bought her as a Grand Prix prospect.
We intend to repeat this kind of linebreeding with the -niki line as well as with others such as Opaline des Pins in the BWP. It requires generational thinking and time to develop those generations, however.


"Forgot to mention that there are a couple of TB breeding theories based on the repetition of exceptional mares in the pedigree. One is based on Dennis Craig's Racehorse Breeding from Cluster Mares, which advocates line breeding on mares who appear at least five time in the six generation pedigrees of international class race winners (British and American Triple Crown races for example) and packing the pedigree with as many of these as one can get going back to the beginnings of the breed. The other theory is based on something called The Rasmussen Factor. That one you can google if you are at all interested. It also has to do with breeding to exceptional mares through sex balanced siblings."

Thank you Vineyridge for the references---it will give us some good reading these summer evenings.

The Rasmussen Factor was my swaying vote in breeding Annia Faustina last year to High Chaparral. Her orginal stallion, Ad Valorem, got hurt so I had to pick again. I actually didn't want to go to AV, but hubby didn't like HC. Anyway with my price range it was between HC and Aussie Rules. Top and bottom I have 2 crosses of Doubly Sure and Rough Shod. Anyway, I got a filly so am now hoping my grand plan of selling her mother (big fingers crossed) and keeping Penelope will come to fruition.

Terri

[ElegantExpressionsFarm]

I have a mare who was line bred and then, turned around and bred her to a stallion again...linebred!! Here is a link to the pedigree http://www.elegantexpressionsfarm.com/GoldenAffirmation.html ...the good thing was we followed the 'rule of 5' so I figured we would be safe with doubling up that close!!

[Sakura Hill Farm]

I forgot to mention the 2007 filly we linebred on the -niki mareline as well--http://www.paardenfokken.nl/pedigree.php?horseid=312473.
Appropriately named Ultra-Niki!

[tom]

This filly was co-bred by Morningside Stud and Sakura Hill Farm. The paardenfokken database has her name wrong: her Zangersheide-registered name is Ultra-Niki M2S Z.

And the aforementioned mare Ana Bella's KWPN-registered name is Ana Bella M2S (bred by Morningside Stud).

[stolensilver]

There are some very interesting pedigrees in this thread and some great information. :) The Arab pedigrees in particular are extraordinary. One of them has 81 crosses to the same stallion in the first 9 generations. Wowzer!

One of the crosses I'm tentatively thinking about would be a cross of cousins: full brother, full sister in the 2nd generation. Does that sound sensible? Has anyone done it?

[rideagoldenpony]

I have done this a number of times, and have been REALLY pleased wtih the results.

These three Welsh Pony fillies are all go back to the great Eyarth Zsa Zsa -- she is their great granddam on the top side of their pedigree, and their great-great granddam on the bottom side.

Zsa Zsa has produced many VERY successful offspring in the UK, who are some of today's most influential sires -- and they are now influencing the Welsh in the US.

Here are my three girls. The palominos pictured at 2 years, the chestnut at 3 years. Their dams all share the same sire, and they are all by *Wedderlie Mardi Gras.

I've done more of this cross, and these have definitely been some of my most favorite animals that I've ever bred.

[JWB]

Fascinating thread.... There is a NICE filly born in Canada - A Lotus T daughter (sired by Lemgo) out of a Lemgo mare. She was a premium filly last year.
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/anna+victoria+bc