Do SMBs heat up the legs too much?

[Auventera Two]

I usually work my endurance horse with naked legs because I'm worried about building up too much heat in the soft tissue. No clue if that worry has any foundation or not. It just makes sense to me that it "could" be a problem.

But I know that John Lyons says he won't take a horse out of the barn without a boot on every leg. Then recently I learned about an endurance horse I've been on trail with a couple of times who ran a stick all the way through his leg - went in one side, out the other - during a ride. Could have been avoided with SMBs or similar.

And finally about 4 weeks ago, my horse was tied up to the trailer, swung her butt around and whacked her cannon on the tack room door, creating a nasty cut. She was off for a week due to some tenderness and swelling around the cut. Could have been avoided if boots were on.

So I hauled out my SMB Elites and have started using them for every ride. I guess the heat issue doesn't worry me in the cool months, but during the summer?

What is everyone's concensus on this? I'd appreciate the input.

[monstrpony]

I used them once on my draft cross gelding during a cross-country jumping clinic. After the ride, I hosed him off, rubbed w/ plain rubbing alcohol, and wrapped for the ride home. The next day his legs were very rough and scabby, and eventually blistered completely. I have not used any kind of neoprene boot since then. If I had to, I'd be very careful not to use them for more than an hour or two, preferably not in hot weather or when the horse is working particularly hard.

This was probably 16-17 years ago and I honestly don't know if the SMBs have changed in any way to minimize the amount of heat that neoprene holds.

And I know plenty of people who use them with no problem.

[joiedevie99]

I think the SMB's do make the legs too hot. I won't use them. I don't believe boots can provide support- just protection- so there are many equally protective choices on the market in much cooler (and cheaper) styles.

[katarine]

They are neoprene.
Neoprene that is thick so far as neoprene goes.
Thick neoprene = excellent heat retention, such as a nice warm wetsuit in cold water.
I would not use them on a long ride.
I would not use them to haul in, too hot.

I will use them while longeing, arena work, etc...

They are not appropriate for one hr intervals or more, I don't care that John Lyon's slathers his endorsed boots on his brought-to-you-by horses...Those aren't my horses, they aren't my problem.

sticks happen. My good pal T lost a gelding when he stepped on one end of a stick with a forefoot while going down hill, the twisted stick rolled and held- and stabbed him about a foot deep in his groin. Sticks happen.

YMMV

[Riley0522]

I hated them and sold the pair I had. My horse's legs were so hot and sweaty, even in the middle of winter.

[BornToRide]

My horse hated the neoprene on his legs. He had become very fidgety when I was trying to put the boots on until one day, after reading it can negatively affect some horses, a lightbulb came on.

I then bought some synthetic fleece lined ones and after one try, he never fidgeted again when I put those on. Ever since that experience I have avoided using anything with neoprene on him.

[LarkspurCO]

I have a pair of these and rode with them once. Hot, sweaty and they trapped sand. Horse hated them.

I've only ever used them again when teaching trailer loading to a douche bag. Good for that.

[Bogie]

I tried them twice and I couldn't believe how hot and sweaty they made my horse's legs. Not for me.

[luvmywalkers]

I've used them and wouldn't hesitate to use them again when needed. My mare wore them when she had a bowed tendon. I put them on in the morning, turned her out (abt 95 degrees) and took them off at dinner. First couple of days I checked every 2 hours or so. Never had a problem.

[Dazednconfused]

I've used them and wouldn't hesitate to use them again when needed. My mare wore them when she had a bowed tendon. I put them on in the morning, turned her out (abt 95 degrees) and took them off at dinner. First couple of days I checked every 2 hours or so. Never had a problem.

Then she probably got better despite the boots, not because of them. Seems rather counterproductive.

[saratoga]

I've never used the SMBs but I always use the cheap neoprene splint boots for my endurance horse and I have used the Pegasus boots, which I think are very similar to the SMBs. I have to use them because he interferes. His legs are always somewhat hot and sweaty when I take them off but its never caused a problem and I have finished endurance rides of up to 65 miles with them.
I dont bother with my mare though, because she doesnt need them and I like to keep it simple.

[ryansgirl]

They heat up way too much!! I HATE anything w/ neoprene - my mare hates the stuff as much as I do and I won't use it on any of my horses -ever. :no:

(and isn't John Lyons being paid to use those boots??? ;))

[Auventera Two]

I've used them for as long as I can remember (I've literally worn out about 3 pair already) and I've never noticed sweaty legs. But I don't wrap them tight either. Then when I started riding long distances on the trail, I thought it was probably too much for too long so I quit using them. I'm just not sure what to think about them.

I was just curious what other people notice, or if you think they get too hot. Thanks for the opinions!

P.S. - It really doesn't have anything to do with John Lyons. John Lyons has been quoted many times saying "I never take a horse out of the barn without a boot on every leg." In some of the trail articles he says that leg protection is a great idea because the lower legs lack fat and muscle to protect the tendons, ligaments, and bones. He doesn't say it has to be SMBs. I've subscribed to his magazine for years, and while all the pics show his horses in SMBs, he never explicitly states it has to be SMBs. Just that the horses need protection. In fact, some of his really old stuff (black and white printed on plain paper) shows Zip in polo wraps. So he was clearly interested in leg protection long before he discovered SMBs. (Or they discovered him, or whatever.)

[Ride2Dreams]

I hate SMB boots but know they are something many many people use. I have found them to be heat retaining and given my horse's sweaty legs. That said I do NOT think it is the neoprene. I have used Woof brushing boots for years after my bad experience with SMB and never had sweaty legs, never had heat problems and swear by them. I think it is the "closed" design of the SMB that lets the heat build up

[mkevent]

Zipping up flamesuit...

I use SMBs (the Elite version now) and have every time I jump my horses. I've been using SMBs for the past 16 years. I've used them on 3 different competition horses and always use them when going XC. I never use them on the hind legs (they slip down after the water jump, it seems) so I use Woof boots on the hind legs.

Do the horses legs get hot? It seems that they get hot no matter what I use but maybe the neoprene does trap the heat more-I'm not going to argue that point. I know that I like the concept of leg protection and possibly *some* shock absorption. I haven't had a soft tissue injury issue on any of my guys yet (furiously knocking wood) and one horse I competed up the levels to 9 Prelims and the other horse up the levels to 11 Prelims. I've been happy with my experiences with them but I'm sure that there are other products out there just as good if not better. Just my .02...

[ponyjumper4]

Neoprene is cheap which is why a lot of companies use it and a lot of people buy it, but it's really crap for the horse's skin and does retain a lot of heat and traps dirt. There are plenty of alternatives out there.

[katarine]

if you don't think neoprene is hot, wear a wetsuit- even just a 3 mil, on a pretty summer day, about the mid 80s, for an hour or so. Good luck with that ;)

[Auventera Two]

katarine - you sure do like to pick a fight.

I did not say that "I don't think they get hot." I said that I have not noticed sweaty legs. I further said that perhaps that is because I don't wrap them that tightly. Maybe I get more airflow into the boot because I don't pull them tight? I don't know.

I use a Professional's Choice neoprene back brace a lot for trimming. It covers a big square on my back, and it wraps around my belly. Yes, the skin sweats. No, I've never been burned or had any kind of peeling, or rash, or bad reaction. I've never had any kind of injury or anything else worth noting because of it.

Wearing that neoprene back brace is not the same as wearing a full wet suit on a summer day in the mid 80s.

I'm really not looking to fight with you, or anybody else. I only asked what other people's opinions were, because I was curious.

[saratoga]

I have never had a problem with neoprene, ever. I like neoprene girths. I live in Arizona and I ride in temps anywhere from 60-105 and never have had a problem with heat build up from neoprene.

[Equus_girl]

I did not like SMB boots at all. They were tricky to put on correctly and trapped sweat and heat crazily.
I do not think its the "closed" design causing it, but rather neoprene. I have a pair of Eskadron dressage boots, which have exactly same design as SMBs, minus neoprene and I never had heat or sweat issues with them.

I recently found a "slimming device" in the back of my closet, which is basically a 14 inch wide long piece of neoprene. You are supposed to wrap it over waist and keep wearing on you quest to flat stomach :O
So, I did put it on and went for a 30 mins run. When I took it off, sweat was literally running down off me and off the belt. I could not tell if I felt hotter under the belt vs the rest of me, but to generate so much sweat, I normally need to be in dry sauna for at least an hour.
So, no, neoprene and my horses are not compatable :) As a thought, could people wear SMBs on quest for slimmer ankles? :D

[skip_rainy_shi]

i use them all time for trail riding we can go out for 3+ hours the legs are hot when we get back but so is the rest of my horse.

[katarine]

katarine - you sure do like to pick a fight.

I'm really not looking to fight with you, or anybody else. I only asked what other people's opinions were, because I was curious.

Says who? you just think I'm after your pig ear, gentle reader. I don't care one iota if you wrap your entire farm in neoprene LOL. Why would it bother me, phase me, anything me? I just think it's funny for anyone to opine that neoprene is not hot to wear. Notice the use of the word ANYONE not you by name.

[findeight]

Whatever...

I had bad luck with the SMBs in the summer. For my taste they got too hot and I also had trouble with sand and some bits of brush working up inside them-and, yes, I DO know how to put them on and adjust them. I just never found they worked for me and I did find them too expensive and kind of a PITA to install correctly compared to the many, many, many alternatives out there.

Somebody mentioned a trailer injury? You can just wrap the darn leg, you don't need these things for simple protection.

I prefer something like Eskadrones with a solid piece up the inside of the cannon and kind of a cup over the fetlock, good thickness up the outside but a much easier velcro closure that allows more air to ciculate and the whole area to stay cooler...and I never had any sand or bits of brush work up inside those even tho I rode in the exact samre place and conditions.

Now, I don't do endurance but I'd guess any catalogue of endurance speciality items is going to have a dozen different kinds of boots in there-cheaper, easier to use and cooler.

[Hampton Bay]

I have some NEW cross country boots with wool fleece lining. They get a bit sweaty, but not too awful. NEW also makes some airflow cross country boots now, and they are supposed to really help keep the legs cool.

I've never liked the SMB's because they seem to encourage so much sweat. But then I live in FL. Your summer is like our rest of the year!

[Pippigirl]

I did not like SMB boots at all. They were tricky to put on correctly and trapped sweat and heat crazily.
I do not think its the "closed" design causing it, but rather neoprene. So, no, neoprene and my horses are not compatable :) As a thought, could people wear SMBs on quest for slimmer ankles? :D

Hrm...SMB's for slimming ankles...might see if it can slim down my calves then!

I bought a pair of SMB Elites for the hind legs. The vet highly recommended I use them for my horse. I don't know that they really do anything. The legs get sweaty...but it doesn't bother the horse. I have tried other neoprene boots in the past and some of them cause the legs to swell and the hair will fall out. It doesn't with the SMB's though. they are tricky to put on correctly though and if I give in to my true nature to fuss with them, I could easily spend 10mins per boot to fit them... :lol:

[Auventera Two]

Now, I don't do endurance but I'd guess any catalogue of endurance speciality items is going to have a dozen different kinds of boots in there-cheaper, easier to use and cooler.

I own a dozen different kinds of boots already, and multiples of some types, so I don't need to buy anything. Was just curious what other people thought of the SMBs. It seems like the western people use them a lot more. I see lots of them in magazine photos and such.

[mkevent]

I've been thinking alot about this thread and have a theory-if anyone who actually knows the answer can set this straight, that would be great!!

As I understand it, neoprene acts as an isulator-it keeps hot items hot and cold items cold.

A human's body has alot of muscle and (depending on the individual) fat tissue. If you encase your entire body in neoprene, I would think that the heat generated from the muscles coupled with the insulating effect of fat tissue would make a wetsuit uncomfortably hot, especially outside on a sunny day with the sun beating down on a black (heat absorbing) wetsuit. The heat would build up and because the sweating is not allowed to evaporate (a type of cooling mechanism for people). I think that's why those "weight loss" type neoprene garments came on the market-it would cause excess sweating in the target area which would shrink the fat cells and make the person look slimmer (until the fat cells rehydrated). Those type of suits also came with a warning not to exercise in them because of the possibility of heat stroke.

A horses lower leg is made of bone and connective tissue-no fat and no muscle(?) so maybe the capacity for extreme heat build up is more limited than if it were made of fat and muscle. A neoprene neck sweat,OTOH, is different- a larger area of the horses body that is made up of muscle and (depending on the horse) fat.

As for SMBs, the originals were made of thick neoprene and were hard to custom fit to the horses leg- so I also had problems with sand getting into the boot. I believe that it was neoprene directly against the skin, so there were microbial issues with that boot. Frankly, I wouldn't use the original SMBs due to those problems.

The SMB IIs were a better design-thinner neoprene and easier to fit. Not sure if there was an antimicrobial lining or not.

The SMB Elites are much better than the other two designs. Once the Elites came out, I got rid of all my other SMBs. More of a custom fit, and antimicrobial lining so the neoprene is not against the skin. I haven't had any issues with sand or slippage. They hold up through XC and water jumps (front legs only) and I'm quite happy with them-they've worked well for me. I do routinely ice my horses legs after a jump lesson or XC run so maybe if it is a heat build up problem that offsets it(?).

I'm just giving my observations here and not trying to sell anyone on using SMBs only. There are alot of good protective boots on the market and everyone finds a favorite that works for them.

[Chall]

I'm with "my horse told me" he didn't like them. He fussed and squirmed every time I put them on his front legs. I stopped. Generally speaking my horses "tell" me their preferences and I try to listen up. He''s not overly fond of polos either, but he really doesn't like SMBs. And it's not just a summer time dislike, it's year round so it might not be a heat issue.
P.S. Just in case it might be anatomically related, he's an Arab with long pasterns. Maybe it fits a QH's anatomy better?

[Androcles]

We had a clinic this week at my barn with a BNT from the UK, she coaches some of the UK eventing team's riders in dressage, among much other experience. She said 'her' riders aren't wrapping anymore, there is some research showing that wrapping heats up the tendons too much predispsosing them to injury. Has anyone else heard about any such research underway in Europe?

[Auventera Two]

I agree that the original SMBs were much thicker and more difficult to use. And if I remember right (I'm not near the boots right now), there was also neoprene right against the skin. I have some of the new Elites and I know they have that liner in them so the neoprene isn't against the skin.

I haven't noticed the sweating on the legs, even after long rides, but Sweets doesn't sweat much anyway unless she's working REALLY hard. An easy sweater probably does get sweaty under the boots. I don't really remember our other horses sweated in them? Andre sweats in them, if he's really working, but he sweats so easy anyway.

Of all the reincarnations of SMBs, the new Elites are far and away the best by a country mile. They are preshaped to the leg and you just cup them in your hand and wrap the velcro straps around. It takes 6 seconds.

It's good to hear the other opinions. I've always been curious about the heat factor with these boots.

[mkevent]

Androcles- I do remember reading that also. I don't know if there is research based on that because I'd be interested to know,too.

I do remember that SMBs had research at University of Guelph (sp) as to the shock absorption and that is why I originally started to use them. Maybe if I competed at the upper levels of the sport I would be running into tendon issues due to the higher demands and increased heat in the leg/tendons? I like the idea of a little extra shock absorption from a 1000 + lb animal landing from a jump on varying terrain but if it will cause rather than help prevent tendon issues then I'll really have to rethink what I use!!

To the OP-thanks for bringing this topic up because it's been in the back of my mind, too.

[cyberbay]

I was at a Lucinda Green clinic and she was discussing the pros/cons of using boots, and she quoted a race-trainer friend of hers who said, "It seems that just as many go lame with boots as without."

Although there did seem to be some consensus, at the time, that boots with a hard outer shell lining the entire boot might contribute to soft-tissue injury, b/c that upper edge of the shell digs in at the back of the knee... That as a while ago. Don't know if that was ever proven true, but do know that that style of boot often has a notch carved out of that upper edge.


[PS-Katarine: Please note comment about 'reading.' Txs.]

[HappyTalk]

We had a clinic this week at my barn with a BNT from the UK, she coaches some of the UK eventing team's riders in dressage, among much other experience. She said 'her' riders aren't wrapping anymore, there is some research showing that wrapping heats up the tendons too much predispsosing them to injury. Has anyone else heard about any such research underway in Europe?

Yes, there was an article in The Horse that said research pointed to this conclusion. If you think about it how can a piece of neoprene really offer support to a horse's leg?

[Androcles]

Yes, there was an article in The Horse that said research pointed to this conclusion. If you think about it how can a piece of neoprene really offer support to a horse's leg?

From what I understood, not just neoprene, but wraps and bandages as well.

[Waterwitch]

Does anyone have experience with the "perforated" neoprene boots, similar to these:

http://www.premierequine.co.uk/acatalog/horse-boots.html (scroll down to "Sport Boots")

Are they any cooler? I have been looking for a support boot that is not solid neoprene but am not convinced the perforated variety would be any cooler. What are the Eskadrons made of - will they hold up to hard use (cross country hacking, water, etc)? Thinking about just going with Saratoga bandages.

[Twigster]

The eskadron dressage boots are 7mm thick neoprene (from the Dover description). They look super nice, I was tempted to try those over the SMBs but I went with the SMB Elites per the vets recommendation. While horsies legs are warmer when I pull them off than if I left them bare, it doesn't seem any different than using polos.

FWIW, There is another boarder who uses the Equilibrium Stretch 'n Flex wraps, which are super thin and are designed to help keep the legs cool. She likes them, but to me they seem to wear out faster than they should and they are 2x the price of the SMB Elites.

[RougeEmpire]

I use Eskodron boots and love them! I am not a fan of SMBs as they are to thick and bulky and in the past they have rubbed my "high white" horses raw. When I worked at Western and mostly AQHA barns they were all the rage, but even then I did not like them. Everyone used them because BNTs used and PROMOTED them, not because they were any better. Every horse was turned out or worked in them (mostly reiners) and they were thick, bulky and rarely fit well. I DO however like the Les Vogt line of boots and Eskadrons as they are MUCH thinner, more flexable and made out a softer material. The only SMBs that I have and will use are the super light weight "splint boot" ones, I love them for everyday hacking. They don't make a horses legs sweat and are not bulky. If I am doing skid work I use an "old fashioned" rear skid up type boot that just straps around the fetlock to provide protection in the slide. Other than that I do not use anything other than a lightweight boot.

[Auventera Two]

The new Elites fit a whole lot better. They are very thin, contoured to the leg, and so easy to put on. The original SMBs were very difficult to work with.

Elite:
https://www.katahdintrailsaddlery.com/productcart/pc/catalog/SMBEliteValuePack1.jpg

The originals were just sort of "tube" shaped and were very hard to wrap around the leg. They didn't fit that well.

[midwestrocket]

I use front and rear SMB elite boots on any horse I compete on. Wouldn't run without them. They do offer superior protection and support. Any fabric is gona trap some kind of heat. But I do not have any problems with irritation or wear on the skin. So what if they trap a hint of dirt..they're horses. they're covered in it and I am sure they will find more lol I also use SMB's neoprene bell boots. No complaints. Great product.:)