Hot vs. Cold Shoeing

[SCF01]

So many farriers in my area only cold shoe. Is cold shoeing just as good as hot shoeing? If not, how would you know if your horse required hot shoeing?

[nappingonthejob]

Heating the shoe up allows the farrier to be more precise when shaping it. Many farriers can do just as good of a job cold, but the rest of us like our elbows and ears and heat everything up to shape it.

Everybody has their own opinions and ideas about the benefits of hot fitting. I personally think it allows you to get a tighter fit between the shoe & the hoof...everybody would like to trim their feet and level their shoes perfectly each time, but the more mentally balanced hoof care professionals realize that we're all human and sometimes it's just one of those days. Hot fitting lets you burn out that little bit of error. Some people also think it cauterizes the hoof tubules and therefore prevents bacteria from taking up residence, but others will argue against that logic until they're blue in the face. YMMV.

Hot fitting is just another tool that farriers can use to ensure a more accurate fit. Asking if your horse needs to be hot fit is like asking if your farrier needs to be using a different rounding hammer. There's no way to tell over the internet. If you're happy with the job, then it's probably fine. However, if your horse is losing shoes or you don't like the fit, and your current farrier doesn't have the answer to those problems, then you might need to find someone with more in their little toolbox of skills.

[EqTrainer]

I agree w/Nappingonthejob. Hot shoeing is viewed by some people as being a separate skill unto itself, and some sort of gauge of "better shoeing" but it's not really true. It's just a way of checking shoe fit. Farriers often are quite happy to go along w/the myth and incidentally charge more for it.

FWIW, I was told this by a farrier who would happily hot shoe anything someone asked him to.. and charge more.. and his "cold" shoeing work was immaculate :lol:

[SCF01]

Thanks. Certainly don't want to start one of those train wreck threads though. I'm hunting for a new farrier as mine is leaving town. :cry: Just trying to narrow down my local options.

[twofatponies]

Maybe not a reason in the US, but I noticed in Brazil there was a lot of cold shoeing, and a lot of "do it yourself" shoeing. As in the guys carry spare shoes and nails and a hammer in a bag, in case a shoe comes off. Because they are out on the range or far parts of the ranch, and there's no other way to get home or get the work done.

Of course this is not true at the show barns or fancy breeding facilities, where there is usually a farrier and vet on staff, but on the working ranches, and guys who have working horses who live out in the country. Something you can do without a lot of special expensive equipment.

I talked to a guy at a equine studies institute there who said hot shoeing is the new thing, very trendy now, and when they bring an American farrier down to give workshops they get huge attendance.

I asked a farrier here about it and he said what other posters have said - hot shoeing makes it easier to get a tighter fit.

[EqTrainer]

FWIW, it is usually considering to be easier to *shape* a shoe that is heated up, so most good farriers do have a forge w/them. So it's easy enough to take that shoe, that was already heated up to be shaped in the first place, and put it on the foot...

I might be a bit concerned about a farrier who did not have a forge, of course in some places this is impossible!

[SCF01]

I might be a bit concerned about a farrier who did not have a forge, of course in some places this is impossible!


Sadly, most of the ones in my area do not use a forge.

[Patty Stiller]

Although the forge is certainly necessary to make a few special shoe modifications, there are as many farriers who can do a proper job fitting basic shoes cold as there are farriers who fit hot but still do improper work. There is so much more to a good or bad shoeing than if it was fit hot or cold. So do not worry about the forging ,unless your horse needs something really special.

[Equilibrium]

My new farrier, whom I just love, does both. He mostly cold shoes my horses but I have 2 whom he hot shoes. One he's trying to get her flat pancake feet to grow a little better in regards to heel. And am happy to say after 1 shoeing he has made amazing progress. My other farrier just use to say that's the way her feet are and nothing you can do about it. The other one he hot shoes is my 14 yo ex-chaser who had a very severe hock injury when I got him. Over time it started looking like one foot was bigger than the other and so he's helping him now too.

He does an outstanding job with cold or hot and since I didn't go to blacksmith school and since he helps me learn all I can, I obviously leave all the decisions on what's best up to him.

Terri

[Tom Bloomer]

Is cold shoeing just as good as hot shoeing?
Speaking only for myslef, I can do as good a job hot as I can cold. Cold takes much MORE work (time and energy) to achieve the exact same precision. Since I am a wee bit fanatical about precision, I do almost everything hot.

For shaping aluminum shoes, hot is easier than cold, but most aluminum alloys used in horseshoes is specially heat treated for hardness. Aluminum will lose strength and stiffness when heated in to forging temperature.

If not, how would you know if your horse required hot shoeing?
Hot is never a "requirement." The rules go like this:

"Beating on cold steel AND not charging enough will send a farrier to hell."

The "AND" operator means it is OK to cold shoe as long as you charge extra for it. I always do. :cool:

[cloudyandcallie]

Whatever works for your horse. When I was growing up, my farrier came every 6 weeks, pulling his forge behind his truck and hot shoeing my horses with no problem. Of course there weren't all the shoe sizes back then and steel was the rule.
Then when i got back into horses, it was aluminum shoes, so my 2 wore them. Then when we switched back to some steel, my farrier said they needed hot shoeing and did so. Now the "forge" is on the truck or trailer, and heats up electronically with electricity. Now sometimes it's 2 alum and 2 steel, and sometimes 4 steel, hot shoeing. My horses never worried about the smoke or smell so hot shoeing is fine with me.
Any Germans on this thread? I've been told that in europe, hot shoeing is still the norm.

[Valentina_32926]

My farrier does both kinds.

He told me hot shoeing (when shoe is heated and applied STILL HOT to the hoof) makes a good seat for the shoe.

I have found that it CAN also create more abcesses (one mare ALWAYS abcessed when she was hot shod). If the shoe was cooled after shaping and before going on her hoof (cold shoeing) I RARELY had abcesses.

That said my horses are cold shod (show is cooled after shaping) 95% of the time they are shod.

The shoe most likely needs to be heated up to be shaped properly to the hoof unless your farrier has arms of steel and doesn't need the heat to shape the iron! :D

[millerra]

Well, I've had both done and I really like the hot shoeing job better. The burnt in clips really seem to help hold the shoe better/tighter and, when a shoe does get pulled, half of the hoof wall doesn't come off w/ the shoe due to being "pinched" between the clip and the nail.

Maybe not all cold shoers tap the clip tight, but my old farrier did. And, well, there went a chunk of foot from time to time...

I suppose an expert has the right answer for the above problem but my old farrier did not...

[VCT]

My farrier does both depending on the situation but I have noticed that he doesn't usually put the hot shoe on the horses foot. He cools it first.

Anyways... one of my horses doesn't get shoes and the other is cold shod. He has very "normal" feet and his shoes require minimal shaping so it is done cold.

My farrier taps the clips flush with the hoof wall but not really tight. Never had problems with chunks of hoof missing if a shoe is pulled... but then, I don't get many pulled or lost shoes either to judge from.

[evans36]

Somewhat off-topic... but if you don't tap in the clips, isn't that dangerous? I've had horses step on the clip even when hot shod with the clip tightened to the foot. I can't imagine how easy that would be if the clip wasn't tightened. Also, is it common to have clips on a cold-shoeing job? I've never seen anything but the standard aluminum plates done cold and none with clips... but all my horses have been barefoot or front-shod without special needs, so that's not saying a lot. Just for my own curiosity :)

[STABLESWOT]

Our farrier hot fits and I have found that here in Florida it cauterizes the newly trimmed hoof,thus destroying keratolytic pathogens that we have in the dirt here. It seals the hoof tissue preventing anything from entering the white line area, which is the area attacked by the fungus amungus here in this lovely state. However these bugs can still enter the old lower nail holes so the farrier seals them with a special sealant glaze.

As far as utility of shoeing technic, I am lucky to have a farrier trained at the top farrier school in Belgium. He has some serious skills and he does French handmades for our showjumper. He hand shapes the breakover custom to our horses needs even contouring the hoof side of the shoe so his sole has more comfort and no pressure points. He uses clips but he said that he was taught in school that a shoe is not finished being fitted until it stays on w/o nails and if horse is trimmed right he will not overreach and pull shoes. For us, hot shoeing markedly improves our horses gait quality and hoof health.

[JenEM]

Perhaps this is a foolish question, but the three farriers I've seen hot shoe have always dipped the shoe to cool it, after shaping but before actually nailing it to the hoof. I wasn't aware that you could nail it on while still hot, and am trying to puzzle out the logistics on that one, unless the farrier were wearing some big old oven mitts!

I've been happier with hot shoeing in steel than I was with cold shoeing, or with aluminum. I don't think the mare's ever lost a shoe that was from a hot shoeing. She's got oddly shaped front feet, so I'm sure the hot shaping makes life much easier for the farrier, and doesn't seem to bother her at all. (Except for this week, when we were burning her foot while everyone else was getting dinner. Then she was Greatly Offended :winkgrin:)

[marta]

is there anything problematic from a health of the hoof point of view about hot shoeing? why is it that the horses that are hot shod appear to develop this 'bell' shape to their feet?

[MintHillFarm]

[QUOTE=JenEM;4271849]Perhaps this is a foolish question, but the three farriers I've seen hot shoe have always dipped the shoe to cool it, after shaping but before actually nailing it to the hoof. I wasn't aware that you could nail it on while still hot, and am trying to puzzle out the logistics on that one, unless the farrier were wearing some big old oven mitts!


I don't think nailing the shoe while hot is possible and why would anyone to that? I can't imagine it...

[Patty Stiller]

Perhaps this is a foolish question, but the three farriers I've seen hot shoe have always dipped the shoe to cool it, after shaping but before actually nailing it to the hoof. I wasn't aware that you could nail it on while still hot, and am trying to puzzle out the logistics on that one, unless the farrier were wearing some big old oven mitts! Of course is it not nailed on hot.
Those that get "hot seated" just briefly sear the foot surface, to reveal any unlevel spots and insure a tight fit between the bottom of the shoe and the foot surface, and to lightly burn clips into the outer hoofwall.
It is then cooled and nailed on.

[Patty Stiller]

is there anything problematic from a health of the hoof point of view about hot shoeing? Nothing problematic when it is done right (hot enough to be a very brief sear ). why is it that the horses that are hot shod appear to develop this 'bell' shape to their feet?Developing a bell shape has nothing to do with hot or cold shoeing . It has to do with the foot trim, the shoe size and fit , and a few other factors like environment and overall foot quality.

[S1969]

The rules go like this:

"Beating on cold steel AND not charging enough will send a farrier to hell."

The "AND" operator means it is OK to cold shoe as long as you charge extra for it. I always do. :cool:

That made me laugh out loud! :lol: I have thought that this must be especially true in a NY winter!

My farrier uses his forge most often; occasionally if we have a chance to reset a shoe he may be able to do it without the forge but it does seem like much more work.

However, my mare is not a fan of hot fitting/searing. She is a former race horse so I wonder if it is a familiar (but unpleasant?) smell or if she is just aware that it is *not good* and gets nervous. He can do it once, but after that you can just see an *explosion* building in her eyes.....definitely not worth it.

Are most horses ok with the smell of burning hoof?

[Patty Stiller]

Many horses are a bit fearful of that smell .They can usually be conditioned to it with a little patience by briefly burning a loose bit of hoof on a hot shoe a few feet away from the horse, giving him breaks before he leaves the scene, and moving closer a little at a time as the horse stops snorting at it.

However if they ever got hot seated too aggressively once and experienced discomfort, they will not be too happy about a second go-round. Those are more difficult to get them over the fear.

[MistyBlue]

Are most horses ok with the smell of burning hoof?

Most get used to it pretty darned quick. Surprisingly so, one wouldn't think a horse not used to smoke and sizzling, etc would be fine with it pretty fast, but they seem to be.
My gelding Petey is hot shod, my gelding Sonny is barefoot. Sonny did get antsy in his stall the first couple times Petey was shod in the aisle when the hot shoes were checked against his feet...when the smoke and stink happen. But now he's used to it and doesn't even blink anymore. If he ever needs shoes I don't think it would be that big a deal to have him hot shod.
I've seen and had horses getting hot shod for the first time...some eye bugging and snorting and a little dancing for the first hoof or so and after that just a little glaring at the owner as if to say, "Now what the h*ll are you having done to me?" :lol: By the second shoeing they're fine.
However no matter how many years I've had horses and had them shod (or not) I've never gotten used to the stink. Pew!

[S1969]

Thanks guys! By her reaction I have a feeling she had a bad experience once. She's very good for the farrier, finds the whole of it quite boring...doesn't mind the forge, his knife sharpener, etc. But once that smell hits her nostrils she "contemplates" it for a minute, and then she gets an "I'm outta here!" expression. We've tried it a few times and it's always the same reaction. I am certain we could overcome this but there seems to be no need; my farrier is more than happy to cool the shoe and take his time....plus he is very keen to avoid a blow-up by my chestnut TB mare. ;)

[Tom Bloomer]

Are most horses ok with the smell of burning hoof?
I only work on one horse that actually seems to "like the smell" of hoof smoke. Those that aren't "ok with it" - turn their nose up wind. A fan works wonders.

When I hot fit a horse for the first time, I sear the foot, put it down, and walk away before the horse has a chance to smell the smoke. 'nuther words, I get in and out VERY QUICKLY. By the time the smoke hits the horse's nose, I'm not standing there holding their foot up. Thus the horse does not "associate" the smell with "farrier."

Two weeks ago I took my horses to an AFA certification to lend out as "test horses." My 8 year old gelding (http://blackburnforge.com/images/TommySide.jpg) has been a hot fit "demonstration/test horse" at half a dozen clinics and certifications over the years. This was the first time he ever reacted to the smoke. Since there was a good breeze blowing, I turned him around with his nose into the wind and he relaxed immediately. Methinks he just got a snoot full of it instead of just a whiff. A snoot full of hoof smoke will shut down your lungs no matter who or what you are. :yes:

[marta]

but aren't the laminae being damaged by the heat?
not trying to pick a fight here, just genuinely curious.

if the bell shape is related to the trim, then why is it that when the farrier trims for cold applied aluminum shoes there is no bell shape and when he trims for hot shoes there is a bell shape?

[Patty Stiller]

but aren't the laminae being damaged by the heat?
not trying to pick a fight here, just genuinely curious.No. All the live,sensitive laminae are above the ground surface, beyond the heat. The epidermal laminae you can see on the ground surface is no longer growing, innervated nor has any blood supply, so it is not sensitive.
.
if the bell shape is related to the trim, then why is it that when the farrier trims for cold applied aluminum shoes there is no bell shape and when he trims for hot shoes there is a bell shape?There should be no reason he would trim a foot much differently for a cold shoeing than a hot, so ask him. :)