Parelli Games...

[CanTango1]

Looking for someone that has a book on Parelli Games they are willing to let someone borrow. Shipping no problem !!!

Im not looking for the "orange stick" etc :D Just looking for a way for my horse to focus on ME as the leader and a little something to keep his busy brain occupied.

Any stories on anyone trying to do the same are welcome, This is basically a last ditch effort before I make the final decision to sell.

[fabuleux]

It is the Parelli Games- not Perelli.


It would be a better idea to just buy some Natural Horsemanship books and read up on them and decide if you would like to do it. If you have the time/money to spend $500 on a set of books, go ahead and get the Parelli stuff.

Pat Parelli has taken NH and turned it into his own moneymaking scheme. I once did it, and I'm WAY over it. Trust me, it will not help a horse with issues. How do I know? My horse was one of them.


Why don't you try to just send your horse to a trainer instead?

[Woodland]

Maybe start with spelling the name right ;)

Seriously Skip the nonsense and hire a trainer! It will save you and your horse a world of aggravation:yes:

[Equibrit]

The problem is with you, not your horse.

[CanTango1]

The problem is with you, not your horse.


Aww, that was sweet.





Im trying to do something to get us working as a team. I do not have the money to send him to a trainer.

Sorry about the spelling, Ive never attempted to even research Parelli. Natural Horsemanship is basically the same correct ? Maybe I shall just purchase a book. Thanks

[monstrpony]

The problem is with you, not your horse.

Aww, that was sweet.

Alas, it's also true, and in this context, is not meant as derisively as you might imagine. Most "horsemanship" people believe the issue IS always with the person, that the horse is never wrong. Not because of some cosmic nobility on the part of the horse, but simply because the horse is a much more basic animal, reacting to its environment according to the principles that will keep it alive as a prey animal. It is the failure of us more complex animals to understand that, that causes situations like yours.

If you explore Parelli or any other horsemanship philosophy, this will be at the heart of it. You have to learn how to interact with your horse on the horse's terms in order to get where you want to go.

[CanTango1]

I agree, Im sure it is me so Im trying to start over again from the ground up.

We were going solid and always in the ribbons for 2 years straight, Then something this spring just changed. I even had crazy dreams of doing a 3-day in 2010 last fall....:lol: even writing that at this point makes me laugh.

Either way I am trying to better understand, which is why Im seeing who has had some forward movement with natural horsemanship as I have no experiance with it ...at all.

[drmgncolor]

I had major issues with my mare and her not wanting to be caught and she wouldn't tie.. to the point that I almost thought about sending her to a cowboy or sell her. I mean, it could on any give day take me 1/2 an hour or more to catch my mare... and then I was too pissed off to have a good ride.

I actually didn't "do" natural horsemanship... I just stopped coming out to the farm, catching her and always making her work. Instead, we took walks, hand grazed, groomed and other stuff. Plus I started to catch her with carrot in hand... always.

Of course I took the time off with her anyway due to the development of a massive hematoma on her hiney. I guess I probably didn't ride her for over 2 months. But I was out there every. single. day. And after we had it drained, I flushed and doctored and checked/loved on her 3-4 times a day. I think then it was that we truly bonded and I had been her owner for 10 years already. She ties now and I can walk up to her in the pasture, halter in hand and while she won't walk over to me, she will put her head in the halter, no carrot needed. :)

Do what you feel you need to do. I didn't have money to send her off to a trainer either and I was really skeptical of the NH stuff. I was lucky that things have turned around for us. Good luck to you. I hope you can overcome this and not have to sell.

I did finally realize that my emotions showed through my horse. Maybe something is going on with you that your horse is picking up on? Maybe that is the reason for the change?

[fabuleux]

I do have a couple years experience with Parelli and NH, and if this thread turns into a trainwreck (which it will, I'm sure...) feel free to PM me.


I applaud you for taking the first step to fix your relationship with your horse, but Parelli is all talk. I spent hundreds of dollars to learn how to "play" with my horse. He had fun not working for a little while, and then he turned into a rank, mean, bucking horse. He was just upset about not doing any sort of work at all.


The friendly game is not so bad. It taught him not to be spooky and helped me introduce scary things to him. After that, it was pretty much nonsense. Start grazing your horse, brushing him outside, and catching him with a treat. DON'T give him treats every 5 seconds, but reward him for being good by giving him pats and love. He doesn't need food.

But, while you can be nice to him, don't let him walk all over you. If he bites you, smack him. (DUH!) The Parelli teaches otherwise. If he walks all over you, get him out of your space.

Could you afford to take lessons with a good trainer? (Not Parelli, just a trainer in whatever you do.)

[Gloria]

Guys, what is wrong with someone who want to improve herself and be a better horseman(woman)? Did you never mispell something? Unless you are a damn spelling bee, quit condemn someone who make a honest simple mistake.

At least the OP is intelligent enough to know that there is always something in horsemanship to learn, unlike some who believe they have known it all.

Every horse has his own personality and you can never expect him to change whom he/she is but you can expect to improve your relationship with the horse. It is not important what the horse looks like. What is important is whether the horse you have today is better than the horse yesterday.

Nobody every claims Parelli makes perfect horses. The goal is to improve the relationship and see how far the owner and the horse can come.

Yes, I had a challenging horse and he is still challenging today. And he will never ever be a dead head. But guess what, years ago he dumped me just because my toe tickled his side when I mounted. I made a 360 flip and cracked my helmet. Today, he aligns himself along the log or mounting block when I make a motion to him that I wish to mount. Years ago the only gait he had was jig and gallop. Today I can walk him down the trail with loose rein. I can "think" about it and he canter. Years ago when he lost it, he lost it. Today when he loses it, he has enougn faith in me to listen. Is he perfect? NO. He is challening and spooky. Is he better? YES.

Yes. I have plenty of complaints about Parelli but at least my complaint are educated and legitimate. So get yourself educated before making a fool of yourself.

OP. The best way to learn Parelli games is to obtain the booklets. Those are detailed step by step instructions along with common mistakes. The programs are very expensive so you may want to look around used. I have the old three levels packs. They are not the new program but if you are interested in, let know.

[CanTango1]

We do get lessons, In groups,clinics, all away from home etc.

All Im looking for is games or lessons for when we are away ( at events ) for him to look to me as the leader, at this point hes to worried about what everyone else is doing and he mentally checks out. This is also becoming more of an issue at home now as well.

He is becoming increasingly aggressive, and No I do not tolerate that at all, He knows that and he knows the line ( with me anyway ).

Hes actually come pretty far on the ground as far as being more friendly, he was never the type to like being "noched" as I put it , but now is quite interested in what going on with the "humans" , so that is a step.

He is VERY much the Alpha, Im hoping with doing "games" he will learn I am boss, something he seems to have forgotten.

I have also started not riding on several days and just hand grazing etc, Grooming doesnt go over well though :lol:

Thank you for the feed back, this was not supposed to turn into a train wreck...just looking for a book folks.

[specialmare]

you can belong to the Parelli "savvy club" for like $20.00 per month, by belonging to it you can access some kind of vault or something, and they send a monthly DVD, girl I know is into all of it, they came up with something called Parelli patterns in addition to the games, that she is now doing with her horse and I was quite surprised to see him mentally engaged and enjoying the activities. She is quick to point out to me what game my horse does not understand when she does not do what I ask and I am starting to think there may be more to it than just their marketing...can't hurt to give it a try, I remember it taking her a very long time to make progress. Check e-bay for used books...Good luck!

[fabuleux]

Look on ebay- you'll be able to find some stuff pretty cheap.

Here's a $4.00 rope halter
http://cgi.ebay.com/4-Knot-Rope-Halter-for-Natural-Horsemanship-Training_W0QQitemZ390074795792QQcmdZViewItemQQptZL H_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5ad2450710&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

How about this Clinton Anderson book?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Downunder-Horsemanship-Book-by-Clinton-Anderson-Natural_W0QQitemZ120450963516QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU _Non_Fiction_Books_2?hash=item1c0b6fd83c&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

Here's the full list of results:
http://shop.ebay.com/items/?_nkw=natural+horsemanship&_sacat=0&_trksid=m270&_sop=12&_dmpt=US_Nonfiction_Book&_odkw=parelli+books&_osacat=0



Oh, and about the aggression- Parelli made my horse start striking out and such. He would kick at me while being worked. I stopped that REALLY fast- that type of stuff is never okay with me. But the Parelli probably will not help your horse.

Why don't you stop taking lessons for a while, and pay a trainer per ride to start riding him?

[caffeinated]

All the Parelli stuff aside- you said things suddenly changed, and are describing some changes in attitude - I don't know you, or how you handle your horse, but is it possible that it's not training at all, but a physical thing?

I know it's a pat, touchy feely sort of answer, but having experienced a horse who got much more aggressive as a result of feeling awful (lyme disease, in his case), I'm always inclined to at least mention it.

When did things change, what was he like before, and how gradual was the change?

[CanTango1]

Lyme was my first guess, Just got the call from the Vet before I started this thread.. Basically he has been "exposed" at one time but vet doesnt feel the need to treat.......Although I may anyway and see what happens.

Hes always been rather aggressive but its progressively getting worse, as said in an earlier post we were unstoppable for 2 straight years , then he just changed... Now hes leaping and rearing and bucking, stopping at fences he jump 1000 times before , bulking, shying, reverse you name it he does it. So basically I have no idea where i went wrong ????

I started a thread last week ? basically on the same issues... it was suggested I look into NH, with the negetive Lyme Im just taking the next logical step...heck I figure it cant hurt and for now when I do ride we try to keep it nice and relaxed, non stressful ....

I take lessons from 2 local but very good trainers.. one is strickly A circuit Hunters I have asked her to ride him but so far shes been pretty hesitant ( cant blame her ) and the other also very good Event all around trainer has a small child..the whole self preservation thing :) Hell if he wasent mine I wouldnt ride him either. Finacially without taking off work/trailering hour + they are the only options I have at this point.

[Foxtrot's]

You are really on the wrong board with this topic - there is a lot of 'anti' sentiment. Best go to one where you will get the answer you want. A lot of money spent does not increase your chances of getting the right information to help you.

There are lots of excellent western trainers who teach the school of thoughts of the likes of Tom Dorrance, Ray Hunt, Buck Branahan and you will not be steered far wrong - these people train horses who actually work and do things...English or Western.

Trouble is that Parelli has put so many people off the Natural Horsemanship movement, or whatever it is called, and closed a lot of informtion off to normal riding types - but don't judge them all by one person.

There is no need to adopt a system with such ferver or join a cult-like group of followers.

[CanTango1]

Do you need the halter to do the games ?? What really does the halter do that one that I have woudnt ? Pressure points and such ?

I do have to say the striking comment has me concerned ?

[fabuleux]

You are really on the wrong board with this topic - there is a lot of 'anti' sentiment. Best go to one where you will get the answer you want. A lot of money spent does not increase your chances of getting the right information to help you.

There are lots of excellent western trainers who teach the school of thoughts of the likes of Tom Dorrance, Ray Hunt, Buck Branahan and you will not be steered far wrong - these people train horses who actually work and do things...English or Western.


....

So, random, but Buck's older brother is a good friend of my uncle. They all grew up together, and I'm meeting him foster mom in a couple days.

:)

[fabuleux]

Yeah, he started striking out whenever I was leading him and I wanted him to go one way, he wanted to go the other, or when I was making him walk and not graze.

The rope halters are pretty good, IMO, I like them because it gives me so much more control. The one I posted has the knots on the top of the nose- that will give you even more control.

[sublimequine]

Do a search for Parelli, I just made a post about it a little while ago and there was some good replies that were non-seething. :lol:

[Murphy's Mom]

This little book by Buck Brannaman is a gem.
http://www.brannaman.com/bbgwbook.htm
Most of Parelli's "games" are the same exercises used by most NH practitioners. He just gave them cute names for marketing purposes. I prefer the no nonsense approach myself, but that's just me. I got in to NH while dealing with a really nasty (spoiled, spooky, biter) horse and "games" were not an option.

Monstrpony gave a great description of the philosophy of NH. I look at horses and training much differently now. A partnership rather than a dominance thing. Feel free to email or PM me if you want to "talk shop".

[caffeinated]

Lyme was my first guess, Just got the call from the Vet before I started this thread.. Basically he has been "exposed" at one time but vet doesnt feel the need to treat.......Although I may anyway and see what happens.

Hes always been rather aggressive but its progressively getting worse, as said in an earlier post we were unstoppable for 2 straight years , then he just changed... Now hes leaping and rearing and bucking, stopping at fences he jump 1000 times before , bulking, shying, reverse you name it he does it. So basically I have no idea where i went wrong ????


see to me that still seems like something going on. Did he get fully checked? eyes? ulcers? it's just hard for me to think it's all just the way you're handling him (especially since you've had him a while), though I guess that stuff can't hurt either.

As far as I've seen, Parelli is just fun names for the same basic work any good trainer would do- back away from me when I ask, move from pressure, move from my body language. He just calls it "the circle game" where I call it "lunging" (not talking about "mindless circles" of course, as so many NHers describe lunging, LOL).

[monstrpony]

It isn't that the rope halters give you more control. The ones with extra knots can affect pressure points and get your horse's attention more quickly, but really aren't necessary. What a good rope halter DOES do is give you a more consistent communication with the horse. The different weights of leather, metal fittings, snaps, chain (if you use one) all introduce a lot of "noise" into the communication between your end of the lead rope and the horse's. If all you are interested in communicating is a snatch on a stud chain, that setup is fine. If you want to be totally out of your horse's way when you aren't communicating anything, but totally clear when you are, a rope setup will do that much better. The halter is very light, if there is no pressure, the horse feels next to nothing. If you have something to say a *good* rope will convey it to the horse with much less movement on your part, and it won't get lost in all of those transitions from metal to chain to rope to snap to leather, etc., from a stable halter and lead.

Good horsemanship believes that any time you are with your horse, you are interatcing in what should be a productive manner. A halter isn't just to get your horse from point A to point B; all the time you are leading him, you are potentially communicating with him, so that channel of communication must be clear. There is no "down time" or time when what happens between you is unimportant or irrelevant.

This doesn't mean you can't relax and just enjoy being with your horse. It's that even that kind of time has meaning to both you and the horse, and you do have to keep in the back of your mind that that time must be positive in terms of your relationship with your horse. For example, if you're hand grazing your horse (and the real horseman don't allow this, but for many, it's the only chance your horse has to get some fresh grass)--anyhow, if you're hand-grazing and your horse "accidentally" steps on the lead rope and gives himself a jerk when he tries to move, its something from you (otherwise he wouldn't be wearing a halter) that he tries to interpret with meaning. He doesn't understand "accident" and you have to realize that you have allowed a mistake to happen that has meaning to the horse. So, a little care is needed to make sure things like that don't happen.

Yeah, things like that happen every day to horses, but if you value your relationship with your horse, you will pay that little extra bit of attention that prevents that kind of thing. And appreciate that it does have meaning to the horse.

Anyway, that got long winded. No, you don't need to spend a fortune on a rope halter, a perfectly decent Double Diamond one can be had for about $20, less if you shop around. There's nothing majikal about them. But they do have a purpose that can't be met by a traditional stable halter and leadrope with a snap.

All that being said, if there has been a sudden, significant change in your horse's behavior, it definitely needs to be examined. Medical issues, feed changes, environment, turnout partners, handling by barn staff, turnout time, saddle fit--look at ALL of those things for changes that might have brought on the change in the horse's attitude. It doesn't just happen, there is a cause in there somewhere and you need to find it.

[cutemudhorse]

Have a look at www.chris-cox.com

[Gloria]

Do you need the halter to do the games ?? What really does the halter do that one that I have woudnt ? Pressure points and such ?

No. you don't need the rope halter to do the games. It is just that if you have a pushy horse, the rope halter makes your life easier. The web halter is wide and that can encourage (or not discourage) the horse to push into it. The rope halter is thin and when you activate it, it create pressure that is very uncomfortable for the horse but when you release it, it just hangs there as if he were wearing nothing. By the way, when improperly used, the rope halter can be abusive. And that is why it is important to activate it only when you need it. You don't want to pull on it constantly.

[jn4jenny]

Let me start here. I have the utmost respect for *some* NH trainers. At one point in my life, I trained with an eventing trainer who had a barn full of horses that were capable of going bareback and bridleless--and could also go perfectly well under traditional tack. This trainer had the absolute respect and affection of all of her horses. Her personal horse was an Argentine mustang alpha mare that she quite literally plucked out of the herd and had winning a steeplechase race the next year. So I am NOT an NH hater by any means.

That said, if you think you can learn NH from a book or movie, that is approximately as nutty as saying "I've never lunged a horse/performed a piaffe/loaded an untrained horse in a trailer by myself, but I'll just read a book/watch a movie about it and it'll go fine. No harm done to horse or handler."

The second word in natural horsemanship is HORSEMANSHIP, and there's no such thing as horsemanship without tacit knowledge, feel, etc. And you just can't learn that kind of thing without direct supervision from a trainer. Period stop the end, no matter what Parelli the money-hungry huckster would like you to think.

At the root of it, what you're proposing is to expose your horse to a new experience where it will have no idea how you expect it to react. You further propose to undertake this activity having little or no idea yourself of what the results should feel like. You further propose to undertake this activity having little or no idea how the cookie-cutter example given in the book or movie relates to your very individual situation with your horse.

If this were any other kind of horsemanship besides NH, we'd call you a nutcase for even proposing it.

If you feel like your horse needs alternative solutions, fine: go find a competent, experienced NH trainer to give you appropriate lessons on these techniques. It won't be any more expensive than taking lessons with your hunter or eventing trainers. And you'll get a good feel for whether the technique is effective for you, whether it could work for your horse, and whether you are capable of executing it with sufficient subtlety and timing.

I also strongly recommend that you leave no stone unturned in considering what's wrong with your horse. Among other things, we've heard your kind of story here on COTH attributed to kissing spine, broken withers that initially went undetected, mineral toxicity, soy or alfalfa sensitivity, etc. SOMETHING made him go whacko, and honestly it doesn't sound like it was your fault or a training issue.

[Gloria]

I have to agree 100% wholehearted that although the booklets are great, unless you are already very knowlegeable, they are not enough, especially when you have horses that are more challenging.

The way I see it, you get the booklets/dvd/newsletter whatever to help you sort of like your homeworks and then you go to someone knowlegeable to give you hand on. It is just like riding. You cannot learn how to ride by reading all the riding books there is in the world.

I was and alreay am a book worm. I will say that I have read those booklets back and forth like a million times. Still I had to go to certified trainers to help me through some sticky spots. Nothing beats hand ons.

[Woodland]

Have a look at www.chris-cox.com

Now He is the real deal! If I were to follow any NH crappola it would be his! :yes: I have seen him do amazing things with a horse. Without a "you HAVE TO buy my stuff" attitude.

Thumbs up!

[Cindyg]

When I was in a bad spot with my horse about 8 years ago, I started doing Parelli, and it helped tremendously. My horse was not ruined, he did not get aggressive, he did not get sour, he did not hate me, I did not chase him around a round pen, I did not spend a fortune, I did not join a cult...

Search on e-bay for a Level 1 pack. Just get started. There's a lot of good there. Oh, and look at your library for his orginal book called Natural Horse-man-ship. That's the cheapest way to get started.

[Bethe Mounce]

A suggestion....what do you feed this horse and have you had his teeth and eye sight checked?