PMU rescue organization

[specialmare]

I was checking out the Giveaways when I came across a post about a PercheronX mare in need of a home. It said she was a PMU rescue, and I had thought that was all done and over with. loveofhorses wrote me back about a new hrt drug and some pmu information on their web site http://www.loveofhorses.org , I am discouraged that this is still going on but impressed with the organization. She asked in one reply to help spread the word that this practice is still going on and mentioned that educating women about alternatives is the way to go. So I thought I would post the link here to their web site so that anybody else out here that did not realize this is still going on could become enlightened!!

[Cielo Azure]

Yes...Lets see if we can hurt the draft horse breeds even more!

They are breeding more foals to cater to those buyers who want foal meat in Japan and those who want foals to rescue in the USA! HA, HA! Talk to those PMU breeders in Canada, who get top dollar from Wyeth and collect on foreign buyers for meat and from PMU "rescue" groups. They are laughing all the way to the bank. A scam all the way around. I wish that those of us breeding top quality drafts and draft crosses could get a hundredth of the money those farmers are getting! These are PURPOSE BRED RESCUE BABIES!!!

In the meantime, the light horse people flock to get their drafts from "rescue," Yep...those Canadian PMU farmers are breeding more foals to meet your demands!!!

It is like buying puppies from a pet store, you either "get it" or you don't. Clearly, you don't.

[analise]

Cielo Azure,

Just went and peeked at your site. I don't suppose you've got a gelding around somewhere looking for a nice home in MD? :)

[Sarabeth]

Yes...Lets see if we can hurt the draft horse breeds even more!

They are breeding more foals to cater to those buyers who want foal meat in Japan and those who want foals to rescue in the USA! HA, HA! Talk to those PMU breeders in Canada, who get top dollar from Wyeth and collect on foreign buyers for meat and from PMU "rescue" groups. They are laughing all the way to the bank. A scam all the way around. I wish that those of us breeding top quality drafts and draft crosses could get a hundredth of the money those farmers are getting! These are PURPOSE BRED RESCUE BABIES!!!

In the meantime, the light horse people flock to get their drafts from "rescue," Yep...those Canadian PMU farmers are breeding more foals to meet your demands!!!

It is like buying puppies from a pet store, you either "get it" or you don't. Clearly, you don't.Well said.

[JoZ]

To the best of my knowledge:

- There are about 70 ranches still collecting mare urine, and they are in North Dakota, Manitoba and Saskatchawan (sp?). There are none in British Columbia or Alberta NO MATTER WHAT you may read.

- The drug company and NAERIC (North American Equine Ranching Council) do not allow the ranches to distribute the foals through "rescue" organizations.

- As a result, these ranches are producing foals for which there is a demand.

Therefore, if you see a website advertising PMU foals needing rescue, it is not legitimate. If you see a website with foals from Alberta or British Columbia, it is not legitimate. There are ranchers in those provinces that lost their PMU contracts as many as 5-6 YEARS ago and they are still breeding for the rescue market. It is despicable.

[sk_pacer]

To the best of my knowledge:

- There are about 70 ranches still collecting mare urine, and they are in North Dakota, Manitoba and Saskatchawan (sp?)....

It's Saskatchewan, my dear!!!ROFL :D One day I'll have everyone spelling Saskatchewan properly :cool:

As to the rest, you are correct - almost all of the people I knew with lines haven't them any more. I know exactly what I would have to pay for a foal by Abbatom, Solid Ice, Prince Brian, Pants With Me or any one of several other Standardbred sires and out of even the poorest bred mare any of those lines have.....a weanling averages around 1000.00 (Can) with lows of 400ish and highs over 5K, yearlings sell proportionaty higher, and started colts can be a lot of money when one considers they are broke to jog only, and need trained down, and no guarantee of how they will do. As to the quality - those who have access to whatever site it is that supplies program lines for programs, do look up Friendly Farmer who has a life mark of around 1:51 and a piece, and races consistantly at 1:54 (depending on track size). This is the quality of the horses that come of the existing lines. Not anywhere NEAR a throwaway horse.

[JoZ]

It's Saskatchewan, my dear!!!ROFL :D One day I'll have everyone spelling Saskatchewan properly :cool:

Argh... apologies! I pride myself on my spelling, and should've looked it up. I'll blame 1,500 trailer-pulling miles since Saturday morning... and will trundle off to bed.

[sk_pacer]

Not a problem!!!! Apologies accepted!! 1500 miles is a killer haul, been there, done that, dont EVER want to do it again.

[caffeinated]

To the best of my knowledge:

- There are about 70 ranches still collecting mare urine, and they are in North Dakota, Manitoba and Saskatchawan (sp?). There are none in British Columbia or Alberta NO MATTER WHAT you may read.

- The drug company and NAERIC (North American Equine Ranching Council) do not allow the ranches to distribute the foals through "rescue" organizations.

- As a result, these ranches are producing foals for which there is a demand.

Therefore, if you see a website advertising PMU foals needing rescue, it is not legitimate. If you see a website with foals from Alberta or British Columbia, it is not legitimate. There are ranchers in those provinces that lost their PMU contracts as many as 5-6 YEARS ago and they are still breeding for the rescue market. It is despicable.

ditto that.

One of the biggest "PMU Rescues" operating these days is essentially buying horses from farms that lost contracts years ago, and reselling them. One of the farms even thanks said 'rescue' for selling their horses for them on their website.

Additionally much of the info on the website quoted by the OP is wrong or outdated (with-holding water? makes no sense and does not increase the profit at all).

Forgive me for getting a little defensive, as an owner of a PMU colt produced by people I feel are very responsible ranchers I get a little spun up on their behalf every time the topic comes up.

[Angela Freda]

To the best of my knowledge:

- There are about 70 ranches still collecting mare urine, and they are in North Dakota, Manitoba and Saskatchawan (sp?). There are none in British Columbia or Alberta NO MATTER WHAT you may read.

- The drug company and NAERIC (North American Equine Ranching Council) do not allow the ranches to distribute the foals through "rescue" organizations.

- As a result, these ranches are producing foals for which there is a demand.

Therefore, if you see a website advertising PMU foals needing rescue, it is not legitimate. If you see a website with foals from Alberta or British Columbia, it is not legitimate. There are ranchers in those provinces that lost their PMU contracts as many as 5-6 YEARS ago and they are still breeding for the rescue market. It is despicable.
You said it!

[Cielo Azure]

The web site we were directed to by the OP said they placed 80 FOALS in 2008!!!! Is that disgusting or what? 80 foals imported into the USA to compete with breeds and USA rescues that really need help (Percherons were down to 500 horses in the 1960s and it could happen again). The draft horse industry needs dedicated breeders and legit homes (not PMU farmers). If you love draft horses, buying horses from people who actually are trying to preserve and protect the breeds makes a lot of sense.

When I see these foals fetching more money that top quality Percherons fetch. It kind of sickens me.

B.T.W, There is nothing wrong with buying or getting a rescue, a USA rescue who actually is a rescue!

[CatOnLap]

To the best of my knowledge:

- There are about 70 ranches still collecting mare urine, and they are in North Dakota, Manitoba and Saskatchawan (sp?). There are none in British Columbia or Alberta NO MATTER WHAT you may read.

- The drug company and NAERIC (North American Equine Ranching Council) do not allow the ranches to distribute the foals through "rescue" organizations.

- As a result, these ranches are producing foals for which there is a demand.

Therefore, if you see a website advertising PMU foals needing rescue, it is not legitimate. If you see a website with foals from Alberta or British Columbia, it is not legitimate. There are ranchers in those provinces that lost their PMU contracts as many as 5-6 YEARS ago and they are still breeding for the rescue market. It is despicable.

What is equally despicable is that people like the poster below and the website she cites,are STILL spreading decades old misinformation about a totally legitimate farming operation that, upon my personal review on site of many farms, is in general more humane :yes: in their treatment of horses than many backyard owners :no: are.

Thanks for an excellent post JoZ. I have been scanning the local newspapers and websites for anyone in BC advertising PMU foals and there is NO-ONE currently using this label except legitimate rescues who clearly state animals are coming from farms who lost contracts more than 5 years ago. The economic devastation from the protest mounted by P E T@ against Premarin probably resulted in more damage and death to those animals than the farming operations ever did.

Yes...Lets see if we can hurt the draft horse breeds even more!

They are breeding more foals to cater to those buyers who want foal meat in Japan and those who want foals to rescue in the USA! HA, HA! Talk to those PMU breeders in Canada, who get top dollar from Wyeth and collect on foreign buyers for meat and from PMU "rescue" groups. They are laughing all the way to the bank. A scam all the way around. I wish that those of us breeding top quality drafts and draft crosses could get a hundredth of the money those farmers are getting! These are PURPOSE BRED RESCUE BABIES!!!

In the meantime, the light horse people flock to get their drafts from "rescue," Yep...those Canadian PMU farmers are breeding more foals to meet your demands!!!

It is like buying puppies from a pet store, you either "get it" or you don't. Clearly, you don't.

I think farmers in the PMU operation are not laughing all the way to the bank and are just happy they can give their remaining animals a life after serious downsizing in the last 15 years.

Please get your arguments straight. If you don't like PMU, OK, but at least base your protest on current information and perhaps go view a couple of the PMU farms and hold off your judgement until you have even a wisp of personal experience.

If you are upset about puppy mill style horse breeders, THEN DON'T BUY HORSES FROM THEM. Even if you think you are rescuing something. There are plenty of good rescues close to your home who will adopt out a wonderful horse for you. You don't have to come to Canada for that. The USA produces an exponentially greater number of horses than we do. Charity begins at home.

[CatOnLap]

The web site we were directed to by the OP said they placed 80 FOALS in 2008!!!!

Actually, you should read more carefully. They said they re-homed 80 foals, SEVEN YEARS AGO IN 2002. That was the last year after the majority of contracts were cut.

At least you should try to quote the BS accurately.

[Cielo Azure]

Actually, you should either read more carefully. They said they re-homed 80 foals, SEVEN YEARS AGO IN 2002. That was the last year after the majority of contracts were cut.

At least you should try to quote the BS accurately.

"In 2002 we rescued 80 foals!! "

Your right, I did see 2008 but I didn't quote it -I wrote what I thought I read (very bad eyes).

[chaltagor]

Some of the horses on that website have been there for years. Carmel, Pee Wee and Hobbs' pictures have been there for at least six years. Same pictures too. Scam city.

[Lori T]

As someone who has adopted a Perch(Johnny's Showtime baby)-QH PMU foal (well,he isn't a foal anymore, he is 6 now) and operates a rescue facility, I thank you for the current info regarding this industry. When I tried to research PMU farms a few months ago for an article in our newsletter, it was very difficult to get accurate information.
And by the way, my Tucker is AWESOME!

[Cielo Azure]

What is equally despicable is that people like the poster below and the website she cites,are STILL spreading decades old misinformation about a totally legitimate farming operation that, upon my personal review on site of many farms, is in general more humane :yes: in their treatment of horses than many backyard owners :no: are.

Thanks for an excellent post JoZ. I have been scanning the local newspapers and websites for anyone in BC advertising PMU foals and there is NO-ONE currently using this label except legitimate rescues who clearly state animals are coming from farms who lost contracts more than 5 years ago. The economic devastation from the protest mounted by P E T@ against Premarin probably resulted in more damage and death to those animals than the farming operations ever did


I think farmers in the PMU operation are not laughing all the way to the bank and are just happy they can give their remaining animals a life after serious downsizing in the last 15 years.

Please get your arguments straight. If you don't like PMU, OK, but at least base your protest on current information and perhaps go view a couple of the PMU farms and hold off your judgement until you have even a wisp of personal experience.

If you are upset about puppy mill style horse breeders, THEN DON'T BUY HORSES FROM THEM. Even if you think you are rescuing something. There are plenty of good rescues close to your home who will adopt out a wonderful horse for you. You don't have to come to Canada for that. The USA produces an exponentially greater number of horses than we do. Charity begins at home.

I have viewed farms, thank you very much. I have spent time on one farm and I do have personal experience. I didn't see a whole lot of concern for those mares or foals. No more than I see most cattle farmers being concerned that their cattle are going to be eaten. Care? The horses I saw on the line were cared for. But the horses in those great big expanses of land, the breeding stock and the horses set out after being on the line to get pregnant again??? Those horses are not cared for in terms of hoof care, frostbite, wounds, etc. They are pretty much feral.

I have seen the new ads in the Draft Horse Journal whereby at least one PMU farm has an operation in Texas to launder horses through. The slickness/glossing over the real issues/even lies and marketing campaign of NAERIC is a bit more than I can handle.

PMU contracts are still very, very rich compared to what other farmers make. Yes, Wyeth has downsized the amount needed of the hormone but they are still giving plenty of money for what they are buying through contract. This is not not due to anti-PMU campaign (P E T@ against Premarin, as you seem to think) but because of legitimate scientific studies that show how the much higher cancer rates in women taking premarin (maybe you should get your facts straight too). Blame NIH for funding the retrospective study, if you wish but facts are facts.

Do a search on Wyeth and Premarin and cancer and what comes up? Lots of site like: "your lawyer.com" It is the risk of cancer that has caused the industry to "downsize." Nothing more, nothing less.

However, welfare advocates have cause Wyeth to reevaluate how they do business. The industry has been cleaned up, sanitized and the PR effort to make this industry appear "family oriented" is amazing. Their (naeric) motto now is "Providing horse buyers with quality, value, and selection from dedicated family ranchers" Now, who wouldn't want to buy a horse from a dedicated family rancher? That fact that this is their motto THIS year, thanks to the Wyeth PR effort to help NAERIC become respectable and it is a PR effort (for which Wyeth has put in $$$). I have followed NAERIC for many years, and what they are doing is an amazing PR/marketing effort but clearly, you have bought the kool-aid and believe it hook,line and sinker. Some of us still see the effort for what it is.

[loveofhorses]

Thank you special mare for your post regarding our organization. All are entitled to their opinions but I would like to clarify some miss-information.
to CATONLAP - There are good an bad in all walks of life, I would question your "involvement" and what you saw at your visit to a PMU farm. I choose not to debate the issue as I have and continue to dedicate my life to making a difference in this world, something that I am so very proud to say we have done by saving the lives of the many PMU horses we have rescued, and by enriching the lives of the families and individuals whom have adopted them. No matter if conditions at a collection farm are good or bad the archaic treatment of these horses should be a thing of the past, we have alternatives!!! The industry has made more than ample money to come up with and implement more humane treatment of these horses. To chaltagor: Our organization is not a SCAM!! And to make that kind of slanderous comment is outrageous, especially when you are spurting off without being well informed!! We are an IRS approved 501(c) 3 organization tax id 22-3862578 and registered with the PA bureau of charitable organizations certificate #36196. You have absolutely NO basis to make such a comment, I can only hope those reading will consider the source. Over the years there have been many organizations that were claiming to be rescuing and adopting PMU horses when in fact they were laundering horses, we have never been one of them! Since 2001 we have retain the original Canadian Food Inspection Agency documentation that is used for boarder crossing we provide them to each adoptive owner and still have them (they are part of the coggins certificate along with a photograph) for the horses we have here still in need of homes!! We do not "partner" with other PMU organizations because we have found many of them to be disreputable, but this is a fact of life and is not just limited to PMU resuce. As far as the pictures being on the web site for so long, that is because when you place 80 it does not happen overnight, at least not if you do it by pre-screening adoptive homes, vet reference, and ensuring that you have made a good match! From the group of 80 in 2002 we have several that we have taken back because the owner’s circumstances have changed or because they have issues that require special handling, or because they were not a good match! Scam??? All of the horses remaining on our web site need trained!!! Our first focus is to feed and maintain good health, there is no money left in the budget for training after that, not the best of circumstances but another rescue group who is now dealing directly with the ranchers dumped an additional 20 on us when our second load arrived, too much bad blood here to get into specifics. Cielo Azure you obviously have followed the issue thank you for you input. The "clean up" pr has been unbelievable they have a never ending budget to do the clean up before the launch of the new drug! Most (especially those taking Premarin or Prem Pro) are eager to forget the travesty of what has happened to the horses involved and what was happening to women's health during that time! NAREIC under the guidance of Wyeth will no longer permit "rescues" to purchase foals...we exposed the worst side of their industry but people only really started to pay attention when the NIH stopped their study prematurely because of the negative health effects. So wether you think PMU collection is Ok or not the simple verifiably fact remains this is bad medicine!! The initial clean up campaign started by claiming that a lower dose for a shorter period of time was not as risky...hard to believe from an industry that had been prescribing Premarin since 1942!
And those of you Joz, Cat on Lap and Angela Feda who are claiming that sites advertising PMU horses are not legitimate you should be careful in making such a broad and defaming statements because here we are, not a scam, have the paperwork, the history and the horses to prove it. Catonlap how nice that you were exposed to what appeared to be decent, again to each his own opinion, you can visit ten boarding barns and find some to be decent, some to be exceptional and some to be deplorable, PMU ranches are no different. As an organization we will remain determined that as long as there is one Mare or one foal subjected to PMU collection that is one too many and as long as horses are confined to stalls for extended periods of time all for the almighty dollar that is one too many. I was made aware of these posts by specialmare, we are such a scam organization that I pm'd her the e-mail address of the previous owner of the Percheron XMare posted on giveaways, she decided to help get the word out there about Aprela (the new hrt alternative Wyeth is working on, Thank you for that ) I do not hear any of you experts who want to bash an organization who has chosen to continue to educate women regarding HRT and to save innocent lives rather than breed unwanted ones trying to disprove that information!!! This may come as a shock to those of you who have your undies in a bunch that PMU horses have taken money out of your wallet and hurt your breeding, there are folks out there who are not interested in buying a registered, papered show prospect. Most of our horses go to "empty nest" homes, or 4-H families just getting started with dreams of working up to show prospects, btw several of our PMU horses have gone on to achieve tremendous accomplishments in the show circuit, many go to retirees who want to look out in the field and realize the beauty of what they see, to offer love and care for a majestic creature. Incomprehensible to you I am sure. Regardless of your opinion of PMU rescue you have absolutely no right to personally disparage who we are and what we are without doing research and having verifiable facts before posting. We are proud to be a USA facility, proud to have those pictures of Hobbs and Carmel and Pee Wee still on our web site after so many years, we are dedicated to their lives no matter how long it takes us to find them proper homes, they are indeed legitimate, they are broken lives in need of homes they will remain there till we find them the right homes. They (and a few others) came from one of those PMU collection farms that had miss treated them so badly that they came to us with big time emotional issues, we have had a lot of interest in them however because we do not adopt horses to those interested in breeding, or will not place horses in homes that do not have appropriate skills in training or handling they will remain here till we find a suitable match. As Angela mentioned there are ranchers still breeding for rescues, many PMU rescues have chosen to partner with those ranchers because NAERIC stopped selling foals to rescues, we are not one of them, that is why our PMU horses are now 7 years old!!! That is why you no longer see PMU foals on our web site. That is why it is so offensive to be disparaged without just cause. We are not one of those rescues in it for financial gain! We have taken the responsibility for the lives we saved very seriously. Our very lives had been threatened because of the magnitude of our 2002 rescue. In this economy support is minimal. When we took on 80 we made news papers and the AP news wire from coast to coast, Wyeth took issue with the editorial content of our brochure and web site because we verified every fact we reported, that information may be old but it is still good solid fact, the industry may have downsized but their collection methods have not improved (much)! Maybe if your Ok with how and what they do you should send your beloved horse for a few months of "on line time"...Thanks to all who support the furthering of educating women regarding HRT therapies and where they come from, please follow the links on our web site www.loveofhorses.org regarding Wyeth's new Aprela, it is a "conjugated estrogen" derivate and will involve PMU collection. I will be happy to provide anyone information substantiating that our organization is not a "scam" with documentation.

[Angela Freda]

Thank you special mare for your post regarding our organization. All are entitled to their opinions but I would like to clarify some miss-information.

to CATONLAP - There are good an bad in all walks of life, I would question your "involvement" and what you saw at your visit to a PMU farm. I choose not to debate the issue as I have and continue to dedicate my life to making a difference in this world, something that I am so very proud to say we have done by saving the lives of the many PMU horses we have rescued, and by enriching the lives of the families and individuals whom have adopted them.

No matter if conditions at a collection farm are good or bad the archaic treatment of these horses should be a thing of the past, we have alternatives!!! The industry has made more than ample money to come up with and implement more humane treatment of these horses.

To chaltagor: Our organization is not a SCAM!! And to make that kind of slanderous comment is outrageous, especially when you are spurting off without being well informed!! We are an IRS approved 501(c) 3 organization tax id 22-3862578 and registered with the PA bureau of charitable organizations certificate #36196. numbers and a 501 status mean nothing, frankly. Ever heard of CBER, Fair Dinkum, Frontlines, Equine Rescue Europe, 3 Strikes Ranch,... or the myriad of other 'rescues' who are basically brokering horses?

You have absolutely NO basis to make such a comment, I can only hope those reading will consider the source. Over the years there have been many organizations that were claiming to be rescuing and adopting PMU horses when in fact they were laundering horses, we have never been one of them!

Since 2001 we have retain the original Canadian Food Inspection Agency documentation that is used for boarder crossing we provide them to each adoptive owner and still have them (they are part of the coggins certificate along with a photograph) for the horses we have here still in need of homes!! We do not "partner" with other PMU organizations because we have found many of them to be disreputable, but this is a fact of life and is not just limited to PMU resuce.

As far as the pictures being on the web site for so long, that is because when you place 80 it does not happen overnight, at least not if you do it by pre-screening adoptive homes, vet reference, and ensuring that you have made a good match!
From the group of 80 in 2002 we have several that we have taken back because the owner’s circumstances have changed or because they have issues that require special handling, or because they were not a good match! Scam??? All of the horses remaining on our web site need trained!!! Our first focus is to feed and maintain good health, there is no money left in the budget for training after that, not the best of circumstances but another rescue group who is now dealing directly with the ranchers dumped an additional 20 on us when our second load arrived, too much bad blood here to get into specifics.

Cielo Azure you obviously have followed the issue thank you for you input. The "clean up" pr has been unbelievable they have a never ending budget to do the clean up before the launch of the new drug! Most (especially those taking Premarin or Prem Pro) are eager to forget the travesty of what has happened to the horses involved and what was happening to women's health during that time! NAREIC under the guidance of Wyeth will no longer permit "rescues" to purchase foals...we exposed the worst side of their industry but people only really started to pay attention when the NIH stopped their study prematurely because of the negative health effects. So wether you think PMU collection is Ok or not the simple verifiably fact remains this is bad medicine!! The initial clean up campaign started by claiming that a lower dose for a shorter period of time was not as risky...hard to believe from an industry that had been prescribing Premarin since 1942!

And those of you Joz, Cat on Lap and Angela Feda who are claiming that sites advertising PMU horses are not legitimate you should be careful in making such a broad and defaming statements because here we are, not a scam, have the paperwork, the history and the horses to prove it.

Catonlap how nice that you were exposed to what appeared to be decent, again to each his own opinion, you can visit ten boarding barns and find some to be decent, some to be exceptional and some to be deplorable, PMU ranches are no different.

As an organization we will remain determined that as long as there is one Mare or one foal subjected to PMU collection that is one too many and as long as horses are confined to stalls for extended periods of time all for the almighty dollar that is one too many.
I was made aware of these posts by specialmare, we are such a scam organization that I pm'd her the e-mail address of the previous owner of the Percheron XMare posted on giveaways, she decided to help get the word out there about Aprela (the new hrt alternative Wyeth is working on, Thank you for that )

I do not hear any of you experts who want to bash an organization who has chosen to continue to educate women regarding HRT and to save innocent lives rather than breed unwanted ones trying to disprove that information!!! this his a horse board, if someone had a thread about HRT it would get closed in a heartbeat. Defending yourself by putting others down for actions you have no idea about is just... bad PR. This may come as a shock to those of you who have your undies in a bunch that PMU horses have taken money out of your wallet and hurt your breeding, there are folks out there who are not interested in buying a registered, papered show prospect. Most of our horses go to "empty nest" homes, or 4-H families just getting started with dreams of working up to show prospects, btw several of our PMU horses have gone on to achieve tremendous accomplishments in the show circuit, many go to retirees who want to look out in the field and realize the beauty of what they see, to offer love and care for a majestic creature. Incomprehensible to you I am sure.

Regardless of your opinion of PMU rescue you have absolutely no right to personally disparage who we are and what we are without doing research and having verifiable facts before posting. it's called having an opinion, and posting on a discussion board. I don;t see where anyone after the OP were speaking of your org. specifically. The problem with being in the line of business you are in is that bad apples spoil your whole barrel. We are proud to be a USA facility, proud to have those pictures of Hobbs and Carmel and Pee Wee still on our web site after so many years, we are dedicated to their lives no matter how long it takes us to find them proper homes, they are indeed legitimate, they are broken lives in need of homes they will remain there till we find them the right homes. They (and a few others) came from one of those PMU collection farms that had miss treated them so badly that they came to us with big time emotional issues, we have had a lot of interest in them however because we do not adopt horses to those interested in breeding, or will not place horses in homes that do not have appropriate skills in training or handling they will remain here till we find a suitable match.

As Angela wasn't me mentioned there are ranchers still breeding for rescues, many PMU rescues have chosen to partner with those ranchers because NAERIC stopped selling foals to rescues, we are not one of them, that is why our PMU horses are now 7 years old!!! That is why you no longer see PMU foals on our web site. That is why it is so offensive to be disparaged without just cause. We are not one of those rescues in it for financial gain! We have taken the responsibility for the lives we saved very seriously. Our very lives had been threatened because of the magnitude of our 2002 rescue. In this economy support is minimal. When we took on 80 we made news papers and the AP news wire from coast to coast, Wyeth took issue with the editorial content of our brochure and web site because we verified every fact we reported, that information may be old but it is still good solid fact, the industry may have downsized but their collection methods have not improved (much)!

Maybe if your Ok with how and what they do you should send your beloved horse for a few months of "on line time" He's a gelding. And no one was saying PMU, HRT and the process is fine. What the concern is, and you verified it, there are those out there who continue to breed these horses and hold them hostage with the threat of slaughter who have not had a PMU contracts for YEARS.
There are so, so many US horses going North to slaughter, and as someone else said, charity does begin at home- how do we decide where to put our donation dollars? Why are we supporting [by buying the byproduct] this industry, and then those who are no longer in the industry, and why are we doing what the Canadian government/people could deal with, instead of dealing with our own needs? {I am NOT saying 'Canadians, clean up your mess', but truly it is interesting that we are saving horses in another country when there are horses on our own local Craigslist for sale for $1-500!} For me and many it's in our own backyards where we can see with our own eyes the good a donation to an org. does.

'...Thanks to all who support the furthering of educating women regarding HRT therapies and where they come from, please follow the links on our web site www.loveofhorses.org regarding Wyeth's new Aprela, it is a "conjugated estrogen" derivate and will involve PMU collection. I will be happy to provide anyone information substantiating that our organization is not a "scam" with documentation.

Paragraphs make it much easier for others to read through your posts.

[WaningMoon]

Well I sure hope things have changed for PMU mares on line. I brought several Canadian foals down here in the 70's from Quebec and what I saw at the urine farms was just horrifying. Horses WERE deprived of water to make the urine less dilute. The mares had sores from the bags, most were quite thin. Foals were treated like dirt, like they didn't even deserve a life. I still have the pictures of those places clearly in my head. It is something I will never forget. One mare was lying there dead in the line on a mONday and was still there the next Sat.

I would be proud to own another PMU horse, papers mean naught to me, I just keep my horses to love on and for personal enjoyment. Some of the nicest horses I have known have come from PMU farms.

[fivehorses]

things have changed dramatically in the PMU business.
When the World Health Organization study prematurely stopped due to the risks pmu was to woman, heart, breast cancer, etc, the need for pmu abruptly reduced.

I have two 2001 pmu horses. They were throwaways, and if not bought by me were on to the feedlot. Unfortunately, the woman who ran this rescue was exactly what some here have addressed...she was a broker for the farmers AND made a good salary all in the theme of rescue. I was suckered.

I love my two colts, probably my favorites. Along with my South Valley Did It Daughter. I felt I had the beauty queen with the outstanding lines, and wanted to help some pmu's.

Unfortunately, NAERIC is a PR machine and honestly I do not trust them or Wyeth! How Wyeth could put premarin on the market over 50 years ago and still maintain the patent, and not do the testing to determine its value and negative effects on womem is beyond me.

I think this industry has a lot of controversy with it. It is unfortunate that rescue and retirement are the new areas where one must be very cautious in who they are dealing with. They are filled with opportunistic vultures, as well as those trying to do the right thing.

[Angela Freda]

How Wyeth could put premarin on the market over 50 years ago and still maintain the patent, and not do the testing to determine its value and negative effects on womem is beyond me
Good questions for Wyeth, better questions to ask the FDA who doles out the patents and is supposed to make sure these things are safe and effective.

[sk_pacer]

WaningMoon - those days are long gone. Care is regulated, inspections happen without warning. Even turnout is regulated - I asked a rancher and from there ensued a long discussion about turning out horses that really do not want to be out in a howling north wind and the first one out tries to come back in when the next one goes out (winters are harsh and long out west). He also talked about having to remove snow from the turnout areas and having drifts higher than the fences - also common in the west. We raced at a place that bought stalls from a closed PMU line. They were 5' wide and 11' long, quite large enough to harness a horse in with no problems. There was also an attached manger for hay and a good sized place for grain and another structure that held the auto waterers. Water deprivation does not happen, however, there may be individuals who have the waterer turned off for periods of time because they learn to operate the floats and flood the place (this also happens at normal barns that use water bowls, even with cows).

One transformation I saw was in yearlings offered for sale at an annual breed auction - the breeder in question had acquired a line, and when those foals from that first winter hit the yearling sales, the change was dramatic. His yearlings went from pot-bellied undersized things with bad haircoats to strapping, well nourished energetic creatures because the mares got proper feeding and didnt have to fend for themselves. I think the difference out here was this: the people that got lines were already involved in large scale horse operations and many are 3rd generation breeders so adding a pee line wasn't a huge leap for them, just made handling different. At any rate, I have no problems with people that run the lines as long as the stock is well treated