Practical Horsemen article..omg! [Archive]

JulieD

Jul. 27, 2009, 01:21 PM

New article in Practical Horsemen.."Falls Happen, you can make them safer"..and the cover depicts Warrington who overfaced his wife on an inexperienced horse who flipped and killed her! Are you kidding me??? The article goes on to show Dutton completing a rotational flip and how to do it properly "because it is going to happen"..also notice the pic of the poor horse bleeding profusely, soaked in lather and getting his teeth floated. This is sport??? REALLY??? I hate Peta but they need to get involved with this!

caffeinated

Jul. 27, 2009, 01:23 PM

well this is sure to end well...

luvs2ridewbs

Jul. 27, 2009, 01:31 PM

EventingChase

Jul. 27, 2009, 01:34 PM

Invested1

Jul. 27, 2009, 01:37 PM

maybe get facts straight before starting train wrecks....

Oh, come on, what fun would *that* be?!?! :lol:

seeuatx

Jul. 27, 2009, 01:44 PM

I don't even know why I am commenting on this but Phillip Dutton's wife is alive and well at their farm.

I believe it was Mr. Warrington (who is a contributer to the article) who lost his wife in an eventing accident.

maybe get facts straight before starting train wrecks....

Thank you... I just spent the last few minutes trying to google and figure out why I had not heard about Evie's (non-existent) fall. Then I spent another several trying to remember his first wife's name because I was pretty sure they had divorced...

Ahhhh, gotta love the telephone game.

P.S. I think it is also a rather large stretch to intimate that Danny Warrington killed his wife (which is what the OP tried... not directed at you EventingChase). Amanda Warrington was a very accomplished, and experienced rider (an Olympic Hopeful none the less), not an Ammy Wife riding Hubby Pro's horses. She was experienced enough to know her risks and weigh them.

justdandy

Jul. 27, 2009, 01:47 PM

Eventer55

Jul. 27, 2009, 01:47 PM

Choo choo Charlie was his name we hear. Choo choo Charlie was a. . . well does anyone have any Good N' Plenty?????? It's too early for wine:(

justdandy

Jul. 27, 2009, 01:48 PM

Choo choo Charlie was his name we hear. Choo choo Charlie was a. . . well does anyone have any Good N' Plenty?????? It's too early for wine:(

It's NEVER too early for wine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:winkgrin::D:lol:

seeuatx

Jul. 27, 2009, 01:50 PM

Have No Wine Until It's Time.....

IT"S TIME!!!!!! :D

joiedevie99

Jul. 27, 2009, 01:50 PM

The article states that both horse and rider were not injured in the fall depicted in the cover, and throughout the story.

Eventer55

Jul. 27, 2009, 01:53 PM

It's NEVER too early for wine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:winkgrin::D:lol:

I like your sig line. . . not that it has anything to do with this :eek::eek::eek:

olympicprincess

Jul. 27, 2009, 01:54 PM

I guess "Fictional post about Practical Horseman... omg!" wouldn't get many views?? :D

Pass the bottle.

Calvincrowe

Jul. 27, 2009, 01:54 PM

Eventer55

Jul. 27, 2009, 01:57 PM

It's all an evil plot by COTH to see if anyone is really paying attention or have we actually left our computers on and gone riding. Wduyathink?

SimpleSimon

Jul. 27, 2009, 01:57 PM

[quote=Calvincrowe;4264865]The bleeding horse is a "bleeder"--an article concerning Pulmonary Hemorrhage and the steps being taken to understand and treat it.

Thank you - I happen to have that Practical Horseman with me today and figured I must have an edited version. First of the cover picture is of Danny Warrington jumping a Novice type fence with no teeth floating. Then the pictures of Philip Dutton show him dropping the reins completely on take-off - and the horse doesn't appear to be sweaty - just has grease on his front legs. I couldn't figure out where the blood, lather and teeth floating was coming from in the OP's original description.

justdandy

Jul. 27, 2009, 01:58 PM

I like your sig line. . . not that it has anything to do with this :eek::eek::eek:

Thanks! It could have something to do with this. It just depends on how you look at it. :eek::winkgrin::D:lol:

loshad

Jul. 27, 2009, 01:58 PM

Eventer55

Jul. 27, 2009, 02:01 PM

I hadn't noticed that the OP tends to bother herself much about facts. In any case, she's here on a trolling mission to get CoTHers all stirred up, but was apparently too chicken to post this little gem in Eventing.

Yea, but here I am and I'll be happy to go back to my own forum if anyone out there isn't getting enough fun already.:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: Just kidding.

HenryisBlaisin'

Jul. 27, 2009, 02:03 PM

Now I really need to see this article. I'm having a hard time trying to figure out where a picture of a bleeding, sweating horse getting it's teeth floated fits in to an article about falls.:confused:

That photo is in a different article, and the horse has a nosebleed, to illustrate the symptoms of pulmonary hemmorhage, which can happen to horses in any sport, not only. I think some of the "foam" is eventing grease, too.

Sure, equestrian sports could be safer, but these two articles are about preventing injury to the rider in case a fall DOES occur and controlling a potentially fatal condition in horses, respectively-hardly promoting animal cruelty!

monstrpony

Jul. 27, 2009, 02:04 PM

The COTH Inquirer is alive and well, I see :rolleyes:

loshad

Jul. 27, 2009, 02:04 PM

Yea, but here I am and I'll be happy to go back to my own forum if anyone out there isn't getting enough fun already.:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: Just kidding.

E55, perhaps she figured that once you all get done flipping your horses and then pulling their teeth out (or whatever the torture du jour is), you can only remember to go to one forum. ;)

Eventer55

Jul. 27, 2009, 02:07 PM

E55, perhaps she figured that once you all get done flipping your horses and then pulling their teeth out (or whatever the torture du jour is), you can only remember to go to one forum. ;)

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: OMG can you get it straight FIRST we pull their teeth out, then we flip them. . . Really, WTFruitbat is going on? OH, oh I hear a mod coming to shut this fun down.

justdandy

Jul. 27, 2009, 02:15 PM

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: OMG can you get it straight FIRST we pull their teeth out, then we flip them. . . Really, WTFruitbat is going on? OH, oh I hear a mod coming to shut this fun down.

I said it before and I'll say it again...All you krazy eventers is nutz!:winkgrin::lol:

onelanerode

Jul. 27, 2009, 02:33 PM

It would appear from previous posts that facts are not this poster's strong suit. Sh!t-stirring, on the other hand, seems to come quite easily. :rolleyes:

JSwan

Jul. 27, 2009, 02:42 PM

I had no idea you could flip a horse over a xc jump and float its teeth at the same time.

Eventer55

Jul. 27, 2009, 02:45 PM

I had no idea you could flip a horse over a xc jump and float its teeth at the same time.

You can only do this if you have not pulled it's teeth prior to flipping it. I'm an eventer, so I know this stuff!

And by the way, I like the OP. If it weren't for her I would have to go back outside in this hideous heat. I consider this a reasonable excuse not to go out.

justdandy

Jul. 27, 2009, 02:46 PM

You can only do this if you have not pulled it's teeth prior to flipping it. I'm an eventer, so I know this stuff!

You should also know that you have to give it a bloody nose first! DUH!!!!!

loshad

Jul. 27, 2009, 02:49 PM

I just thought it was one of the high level eventing questions. Lower levels it's finging and numping, mid-levels is elementary horse flipping, and upper levels is advanced horse flipping with additional elements such as tooth floating.

Eventer55

Jul. 27, 2009, 02:50 PM

You should also know that you have to give it a bloody nose first! DUH!!!!!

I resemble that remark, the blood comes from ripping it's teeth out, that's why the horse is covered with soap. . . to get the red out!!!!!

harveyhorses

Jul. 27, 2009, 02:50 PM

I had no idea you could flip a horse over a xc jump and float its teeth at the same time.

Now we know where the blood is coming from!!
Popcorn anyone? I guess the fun is over and I have to go back to work??

JSwan

Jul. 27, 2009, 02:51 PM

You can only do this if you have not pulled it's teeth prior to flipping it. I'm an eventer, so I know this stuff!

And by the way, I like the OP. If it weren't for her I would have to go back outside in this hideous heat. I consider this a reasonable excuse not to go out.

I just came in from the hideous heat. I'm soaked.

I did take my horse over a cross rail a few times - but I didn't think to yank his teeth out first. I KNEW I was forgetting something! (smacks head)

I was going to ride the other horse but I looked into his stall and he was out cold. Stretched out, slack lips with teeth showing a little... asleep.

Guess I can run him at some fences and flip him over this evening - that way he's not lathered and bloody when I turn him out.

JSwan

Jul. 27, 2009, 02:53 PM

Now we know where the blood is coming from!!
Popcorn anyone? I guess the fun is over and I have to go back to work??

Your horse can't eat popcorn after his teeth have been ripped out. the kernels get stuck in the bloody gums.

Plus - its high in sugar. Sugar is the DEBBILLLLL!!! :winkgrin:

justdandy

Jul. 27, 2009, 02:54 PM

I just came in from the hideous heat. I'm soaked.

I did take my horse over a cross rail a few times - but I didn't think to yank his teeth out first. I KNEW I was forgetting something! (smacks head)

I was going to ride the other horse but I looked into his stall and he was out cold. Stretched out, slack lips with teeth showing a little... asleep.

Guess I can run him at some fences and flip him over this evening - that way he's not lathered and bloody when I turn him out.

That would have been the PERFECT time to pull his teeth! You know....prep him for the flip? Sheesh! Do I need to remind you guys of everything?:rolleyes:

THAT'S IT! I'M DONE WITH THIS THREAD!

JSwan

Jul. 27, 2009, 02:56 PM

Do I need to remind you guys of everything?:rolleyes:

Yeah. I've flipped my horse and landed on my head so many times I'm bain dramaged.

ETA - I'm done too!

Eventer55

Jul. 27, 2009, 02:59 PM

You get back here, or I'll flip ya before I pulls yer teeth.

justdandy

Jul. 27, 2009, 02:59 PM

Yeah. I've flipped my horse and landed on my head so many times I'm bain dramaged.

I know I said I was done with this thread, but......

Maybe you're dain bramaged because you're not wearing the right helmet. Are you wearing a helmet? I don't think you're wearing a helmet. If you are, you're not wearing the right helmet? Maybe we need to have PH do an article on people who don't wear the right helmets. I think helmets are good.

Sugarbrook

Jul. 27, 2009, 03:01 PM

In an hour and 35 mins we have posted 35 times. Just goes to show you that some of us are paying attention. Me, I came in out of the heat. My husband is the Dentist in the family, and he hasn't ripped many teeth out on my ponies lately. They don't fit into his dental chairs. LOL. Carry on.

Alagirl

Jul. 27, 2009, 03:02 PM

Have No Wine Until It's Time.....

IT"S TIME!!!!!! :D

After all, it's 5 o'clock somewhere! Hurricanes anyone? :cool::cool::cool:

justdandy

Jul. 27, 2009, 03:07 PM

You get back here, or I'll flip ya before I pulls yer teeth.

What teef? I ain't got no teef. I lost 'em the last time I flipped.

Ghazzu

Jul. 27, 2009, 03:12 PM

I know I said I was done with this thread, but......

Maybe you're dain bramaged because you're not wearing the right helmet. Are you wearing a helmet? I don't think you're wearing a helmet. If you are, you're not wearing the right helmet? Maybe we need to have PH do an article on people who don't wear the right helmets. I think helmets are good.

This is true.
The helmet needs to be lined with tinfoil.

MyGiantPony

Jul. 27, 2009, 03:17 PM

I just came in from the hideous heat. I'm soaked.

You didn't stop to drink any water, did you?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

justdandy

Jul. 27, 2009, 03:19 PM

You didn't stop to drink any water, did you?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

MGP - she's soaked because she failed at her flipping attempt. Instead, she fell off into the water. You see....when you first attempt the flips, you should ALWAYS do it into a body of water. It's sort of like doing a highwire act with the net and then when you're comfortable you take the net away.

Eventer55

Jul. 27, 2009, 03:19 PM

I know this isn't in keeping with this thread, but yesterday I saw Clinton Anderson working a horse on TV and he makes young horses turn their heads back and forth, what does this do besides loosen up the poll.

Has anyone ever used any technique of his?

I thought I'd ask here as there are more people here than anywhere else.

laskiblue

Jul. 27, 2009, 03:20 PM

Spotty attention span X lack of critical thinking X desire to stir the sh!t-pot = OP's post

Susan P

Jul. 27, 2009, 03:21 PM

Thanks for posting that, I saw Phillip Dutton on July 17th and he sure didn't seem to be mourning but was planning on competing that weekend. He obviously adores his wife and kids. I doubt he would take risks with her. She's very sweet and a much needed Mom to the kids.

I can't believe anyone would write this.

Amanda had a tragic accident, it was awful. I was at Fair Hill watching the competition that day. The roll top was not extreme but it was the last ride of the day. Perhaps she was just a bit tired, the horse didn't pick up his feet just right. I don't see how her husband had any decision in her riding that day and she had already jumped that jump previously the same day. As I was walking back to my car I saw her laying there and him standing or pacing over her waiting for the helicopter. I knew with the expression on him that it was extremely serious. I know she was in the hospital for a while before they gave up hope, don't remember how long. I just remember asking for news. The whole eventing world was very disturbed by her accident, especially locally and everyone close to her was beyond consolable. No one took it lightly. I don't think that jump was more than she could handle, but apparently the horse just miscalculated as perhaps did she. Since it was later in the day, I'm thinking the sun was not as bright or the lighting was different, perhaps that contributed to the miscalculation.

Eventing and jumping has it's risks, the human should make sure they are aware of them but hopes they can get through. The horse does not understand the risks. Certainly horses on their own do dangerous things that sometimes cause them serious injury and even death. Just look at the injuries to horses just in the pasture even in their stalls.

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-4412481.html article about Amanda, obit.

I don't even know why I am commenting on this but Phillip Dutton's wife is alive and well at their farm.

I believe it was Mr. Warrington (who is a contributer to the article) who lost his wife in an eventing accident.

maybe get facts straight before starting train wrecks....

dghunter

Jul. 27, 2009, 03:22 PM

I'm so bored at work today and this just made my day :D:lol: Possibly my whole week :winkgrin::lol:

ETA: I posted this before the very sad writing about Amanda.

cowgirljenn

Jul. 27, 2009, 03:26 PM

This is true.
The helmet needs to be lined with tinfoil.

Now, does the tin foil go on the inside or the outside?

And can I get designer colors and patterns of tin foil?

JSwan

Jul. 27, 2009, 03:26 PM

MGP - she's soaked because she failed at her flipping attempt. Instead, she fell off into the water.

Harumph!

Don't you know I WALK on water? :winkgrin:

Besides - I foxhunt. When we fall off into the water - it's usually several feet deep.

And ice freakin' cold.

And a long way from the trailers.

And there is a big audience.

ETA - no disrespected intended to Danny or the friends and family of Amanda. Stoopid OP.

Susan P

Jul. 27, 2009, 03:30 PM

I did hear he was married before and I think his X's name started with Br like Brunt or Brund or Branwyn or something like that. I think that marriage was short.

Thank you... I just spent the last few minutes trying to google and figure out why I had not heard about Evie's (non-existent) fall. Then I spent another several trying to remember his first wife's name because I was pretty sure they had divorced...

Ahhhh, gotta love the telephone game.

P.S. I think it is also a rather large stretch to intimate that Danny Warrington killed his wife (which is what the OP tried... not directed at you EventingChase). Amanda Warrington was a very accomplished, and experienced rider (an Olympic Hopeful none the less), not an Ammy Wife riding Hubby Pro's horses. She was experienced enough to know her risks and weigh them.

MyGiantPony

Jul. 27, 2009, 03:34 PM

Harumph!

Don't you know I WALK on water? :winkgrin:

Besides - I foxhunt. When we fall off into the water - it's usually several feet deep.

And ice freakin' cold.

And a long way from the trailers.

And there is a big audience.

AND you have to provide a bottle of champagne when you fall...beats a bottle of water any time. :lol:

justdandy

Jul. 27, 2009, 03:34 PM

This is true.
The helmet needs to be lined with tinfoil.

Oooooo...I like my tinfoil helmet. My tinfoil helmet is good. It helps me ride better. It makes me INVISIBLE!

MyGiantPony

Jul. 27, 2009, 03:35 PM

MGP - she's soaked because she failed at her flipping attempt. Instead, she fell off into the water. You see....when you first attempt the flips, you should ALWAYS do it into a body of water. It's sort of like doing a highwire act with the net and then when you're comfortable you take the net away.

And if you land with your mouth open, you can re-hydrate at the same time.

LisaB

Jul. 27, 2009, 03:35 PM

No no no
It was Karen who killed David. You see, here's the real story. David was winning, at the Sydney Games no less, and Karen, well being the super competitor that she is, decided to spike his coffee the morning of stadium. She decided to be sneaky about it and not just kill him right off but to disorient him enough so he'll lose the medal. Then the entire US eventing community will kill him and she will have assumed innocence the entire time. So, off he went into stadium in first place. And lo! It worked! He was turning the wrong way! But blast that man! He didn't even cross his tracks as turned to the correct direction. Darn!
Next time, there will always be a next time!

justdandy

Jul. 27, 2009, 03:37 PM

JulieD

Jul. 27, 2009, 03:39 PM

JSwan

Jul. 27, 2009, 03:41 PM

AND you have to provide a bottle of champagne when you fall...beats a bottle of water any time. :lol:

Champagne? You must be with one a 'dem fancy schmancy hunts!

Bet your stock tie has heavy starch and everything! :lol:

LisaB - I think Karen killed David because David found out Karen was Dutton's first wife and that they had conspired the morning of stadium. David has special mental powers but Karen lined his hunt cap with tinfoil and he lost his sense of direction on course.

It's all becoming clear now. Yes....... very clear......

Eventer55

Jul. 27, 2009, 03:42 PM

Rut Ro and now for the finale. . . Lucky for me I have my tin foil hat on.

Sorry JulieD I don't think anyone is paying attention to you, they're so self-absorbed. . .

Susan P

Jul. 27, 2009, 03:44 PM

I think people were upset due to the serious nature of your comment and accusing Phillip Dutton a well respected horseman of carelessness. I know he is not careless with his family or horses. I've rarely seen someone at his level take the welfare of his horses and family as seriously as he does, though he surely has had his accidents too.

I didn't read the article but it sure seems unlikely that the article said he was careless and caused his wife's death. And I'm quite sure she is alive and well.

Why didn't you simply apologize for your error and correct it?

Well excuse me for typing the wrong last name in at the start of the post! Stand by what I stated about the article:yes:..and hmmmm I've been around a long time in the h/j world and have never seen a bleed like that..only at the racetrack..Mods feel free to move this over to eventing..not afraid to say it there but thought it was more approprate here seeing as I was commenting on the magazine printing a article like THAT:no:

equineartworks

Jul. 27, 2009, 03:46 PM

Now, does the tin foil go on the inside or the outside?

And can I get designer colors and patterns of tin foil?

Jenn, we are in the process of designing a line of unique Special Horses, Inc. Tin Foil Hats that will be used for fundraising. I will keep you in the loop :D

LisaB

Jul. 27, 2009, 03:49 PM

Ah tin foil, yesss, we need that. I didn't call my little standardbred Butters for nothing!
http://images.southparkstudios.com/img/content/characters/106a.jpg

JulieD

Jul. 27, 2009, 03:52 PM

RAyers

Jul. 27, 2009, 03:53 PM

Well excuse me for typing the wrong last name in at the start of the post! Stand by what I stated about the article:yes:..and hmmmm I've been around a long time in the h/j world and have never seen a bleed like that..only at the racetrack..Mods feel free to move this over to eventing..not afraid to say it there but thought it was more approprate here seeing as I was commenting on the magazine printing a article like THAT:no:

You have been around so long but manage to show a large continued ignorance.

The folks referenced in the article (e.g. Mike Pilato) post here on COTH and we had numerous discussions about this over the past 2 years on the eventing forum, including analyzing the pictures printed in PH almost immediately after the incident.

This article was also published in the British Eventing magazine as well and I, for one, am glad to see a intensive look at falls etc. with no whitewash.

I will now go back to my braless, lesbian, horse flipping, beer drinking ways as outlined on COTH several years ago.

Reed

MyGiantPony

Jul. 27, 2009, 03:53 PM

Champagne? You must be with one a 'dem fancy schmancy hunts!

Bet your stock tie has heavy starch and everything! :lol:

Of course dahhling. The starch is a coagulent for the horses' bleeding gums.

And the champagne...meh...any old booze'll do. :lol:

Adamantane

Jul. 27, 2009, 03:55 PM

And if you land with your mouth open, you can re-hydrate at the same time.

Should we cross-post this on the water break thread?

JSwan

Jul. 27, 2009, 03:56 PM

Y
I will now go back to my braless, lesbian, horse flipping, beer drinking ways as outlined on COTH several years ago.

Reed

If you're missing a bra I think snoopy has it.

justdandy

Jul. 27, 2009, 03:59 PM

New article in Practical Horsemen.."Falls Happen, you can make them safer"..and the cover depicts Dutton who overfaced his wife on an inexperienced horse who flipped and killed her! Are you kidding me??? The article goes on to show Dutton completing a rotational flip and how to do it properly "because it is going to happen"..also notice the pic of the poor horse bleeding profusely, soaked in lather and getting his teeth floated. This is sport??? REALLY??? I hate Peta but they need to get involved with this!

I find it highly amusing on here that if you voice an opinion that the "pack" does not agree with or takes offense to they are on you like a pack of starving wolves on a deer carcass..OMG it has to be a troll with that opinion or they are just stirring the pot!...LOL.. if nothing else "girls" you are true to form!

It's not about your opinion. It's about how dramatic your first post is and how the facts aren't even accurate. If you would have posted something like:

"Hey. Have you guys seen the latest PH? WOW! There are a couple of eye opening articles you should read."

Instead you were like.....OMG...where's PETA? Phillip Dutton is killing his wife, flipping a horse and having dental work done on a horse that's bleeding profusely and sweating it's nuts off!

DairyQueen2049

Jul. 27, 2009, 04:00 PM

SNORKL!!!! I was just waiting for someone to post about that PH issue. Some where, Some one was gonna be upsets.

Happened to READ the article which had great advice on falls.

Then yeah saw the pic of the bloody nose horse - I figure I would learn something more - and I did.

And a bit more on human nature here. :lol:

BEST laugh all day! Thanks!!!

nadasy

Jul. 27, 2009, 04:05 PM

Bronwyn was Phillip Dutton first wife's name

thatmoody

Jul. 27, 2009, 04:08 PM

Yeah, having read the issue in question, I was saying "huh?" with my best Scooby Doo impression.

MyGiantPony

Jul. 27, 2009, 04:08 PM

Should we cross-post this on the water break thread?

Too bad there's no way to merge two threads into one.

But that could make things very confusing.

Eventer55

Jul. 27, 2009, 04:11 PM

I believe the "bra" in question was requested to be returned on a different thread and being the person he is Snoopy must have returned it by now. By the way the "bra" was foil lined for maximum support!

JulieD

Jul. 27, 2009, 04:12 PM

BelladonnaLily

Jul. 27, 2009, 04:12 PM

Well excuse me for typing the wrong last name in at the start of the post!

Well, I'm all for excusing mistakes/typos/whatever....buuuuuut, when you accuse someone of killing their wife, you'd better make damn sure you get their name right!

loshad

Jul. 27, 2009, 04:16 PM

People, you don't expect the OP to have actually READ the articles in question before getting her rant on, do you? That would totally defeat the puspose and not allow her to accuse P Dutty of killing his wife while flipping a horse and simultaneously pulling its teeth out. I mean, there might not even be rant material in those articles AT ALL and THEN where would we be?

Eventer55

Jul. 27, 2009, 04:18 PM

Instead you were like.....OMG...where's PETA? Phillip Dutton is killing his wife, flipping a horse and having dental work done on a horse that's bleeding profusely and sweating it's nuts off!

It's how we castrate our horses DUH! Totally painless.

JSwan

Jul. 27, 2009, 04:20 PM

Well well well.

Now I know the real reason you started this thread. To spout off and condemn eventing.

Of course - since there wasn't anything horrible about the article you thought you just dress it up a little and completely misrepresent it, its participants, and the sport itself?

No wonder you brought up PETA. It's a page right out of their playbook. Are you a volunteer or do you get paid to troll on internet BBs?

SIGH...anyone with a modicum of empathy for a animal would be horrified by that article...

Milocalwinnings

Jul. 27, 2009, 04:20 PM

The bleeding horse is a "bleeder"--an article concerning Pulmonary Hemorrhage and the steps being taken to understand and treat it.

OP-honestly!! Get some facts, take a deep breath and think. Chill. Both articles are meant to explain and teach, not show what a "horrific" sport eventing is. I thought the article on falls was really good--I have been thinking ever since I read it, how I will react next time I have a fall. Danny Warrington should know what he's talking about--timber jockeys must really take abuse. We could all be better riders-and fallers!

I agree!! I actually thought the article was very informative and hit on some important points. Didn't see the article about the 'bleeder' but I have only read the falling article. However, I look forward to anything that will be educational and provide a way to learn about something.

OP- suscribe to Horse Illustrated if you don't want to have informative (and sometimes disturbing or gross, but informative) articles.

JulieD

Jul. 27, 2009, 04:22 PM

RAyers

Jul. 27, 2009, 04:23 PM

SIGH...anyone with a modicum of empathy for a animal would be horrified by that article...since some of you are soooooooooooo superior pray tell how you know which way the horse is going to rotate in a fall..do you carry protractors and transits so you know which direction things are going???? no matter what way you spin this it still adds up to eventing being a extreme and at the higher levels a cruel sport...remind us all again how many horses died in the last 18 months in a event competition??? Seeing as there are prob 1/20th amt of eventing comps compared to h/j events and considering that there are sometimes nearly 1000 or more horses at a h/j comp. compared to a cpl 100 at event the incident per unit competition of death per horses at events is egregious but spin away..facts speak for themselves.

Oh, let's so go there to that high and mighty bastion of horse care. Two words, Tommy Burns. Horse may die from incidents on XC but not in the horrific manners as exemplified by many of the top level h/j competitors in the past. Using your words, "death per horses at h/j barns is egregious but spin away..facts speak for themselves."

By the way, I prefer castration of the horse via oral routes. Much less obvious blood to offend the cusotmers.

Reed

Adamantane

Jul. 27, 2009, 04:24 PM

Well, I'm all for excusing mistakes/typos/whatever....buuuuuut, when you accuse someone of killing their wife, you'd better make damn sure you get their name right!

There's a certain element of reasonability to this. But details can be such a bother.:rolleyes:

JulieD

Jul. 27, 2009, 04:30 PM

Wrong, wrong, wrong JSwan...you like our illustrious Pres. like to throw out the race card(eventing) and when the facts get too much to bear you turn on me like I need a teaching moment..LOL...I wouldn't care if that was an article about pony rides..than I would be against pony riding...I actually used to be a fan of eventing back in the 70's but the past cpl of years the fact of the matter is, it has become a extreme and cruel sport in which I would never participate now or allow one of my horses to be sold to participate in. I love horses but than I'm just really "stooooooopid". LOL. I guess rotational falls and hemorraghic bleeds are code for "I love my horse" in eventing, most of us just go for apples and carrots!

JulieD

Jul. 27, 2009, 04:34 PM

Oh, let's so go there to that high and mighty bastion of horse care. Two words, Tommy Burns. Horse may die from incidents on XC but not in the horrific manners as exemplified by many of the top level h/j competitors in the past. Using your words, "death per horses at h/j barns is egregious but spin away..facts speak for themselves."

By the way, I prefer castration of the horse via oral routes. Much less obvious blood to offend the cusotmers.

Reed

You can't be serious Reed..you obviously failed logic in school... PH has not had any articles on how to electracute your horse for fun and profit has it?? They were treated like the felons they were, not treated like some kind of heroes like in the "kick on at all costs" sport of eventing! Do please go there...there is absolutely no comparison, but good try! Gold star for you!

Eventer55

Jul. 27, 2009, 04:35 PM

Muffy, Buffy and Biff????????????? Hey this isn't going to turn into a cross dressing thread about dwarves, bras and unsightly sexual plundering is it? I mean one wouldn't want that. . . Muffy was last seen on a xc course with ............. fill in the blanks.

ThatScaryChick

Jul. 27, 2009, 04:35 PM

There's a certain element of reasonability to this. But details can be such a bother.:rolleyes:

Details?!? She doesn't need to be bothered with details or facts! It's ok if she accuses someone of killing their wife, even if she is still alive, because eventing is evil!!!! ;)

JSwan

Jul. 27, 2009, 04:37 PM

Oh BOY - I just KNEW you were make that leap to the POTUS.

I didn't know trolls could vote.

Wrong, wrong, wrong JSwan...you like our illustrious Pres. like to throw out the race card(eventing) and when the facts get too much to bear you turn on me like I need a teaching moment..LOL...

JulieD

Jul. 27, 2009, 04:41 PM

No troll here..just someone who is not afraid to voice their opinion and regarding the subject not knowing trolls vote..you did and it would not take a rocket scientist to know for whom!

DairyQueen2049

Jul. 27, 2009, 04:43 PM

Chooo Choooo! Chuggga chugga chuggga

Speaking of which, pass the 'rita's and popcorn!!! :yes:

Ghazzu

Jul. 27, 2009, 04:43 PM

I'm still trying to figure out what point, if any, you were trying to make by your mention of the epistaxis.

RAyers

Jul. 27, 2009, 04:45 PM

JSwan

Jul. 27, 2009, 04:45 PM

Chooo Choooo! Chuggga chugga chuggga

Speaking of which, pass the 'rita's and popcorn!!! :yes:

Scotch for me, please.

loshad

Jul. 27, 2009, 04:46 PM

I'm still trying to figure out what point, if any, you were trying to make by your mention of the epistaxis.

Ghazzu, keep up! The point is eventers are EVIL. More evil than grain, bits, snaps, and shoes combined. DUH!

Adamantane

Jul. 27, 2009, 04:48 PM

No troll here..just someone who is not afraid to voice their opinion and regarding the subject not knowing trolls vote..you did and it would not take a rocket scientist to know for whom!

Julie,

I think your best strategy here would be to take a deep breath and find a way to reduce the heat under the stew pot before it comes to a full boil.:yes:

You're not looking really competitive here right now, but I'm betting folks will back off if you ease off a bit, too.

SaturdayNightLive

Jul. 27, 2009, 04:49 PM

No troll here..just someone who is not afraid to voice their opinion and regarding the subject not knowing trolls vote..you did and it would not take a rocket scientist to know for whom!

Hey now - play nice. Bringing (extremely unrelated) politics into a thread where you already look like a lunatic is probably not the best way to go.

JSwan

Jul. 27, 2009, 04:50 PM

Ghazzu, keep up! The point is eventers are EVIL. More evil than grain, bits, snaps, and shoes combined. DUH!

Maybe - but are they more evil than SUGAR????????

ThatScaryChick

Jul. 27, 2009, 04:50 PM

No troll here..just someone who is not afraid to voice their opinion and regarding the subject not knowing trolls vote..you did and it would not take a rocket scientist to know for whom!

The only troll I see here, is the one who started the topic in the first place. I can't believe that you are honestly surprised, that you got the reaction that you did? :rolleyes:

Adamantane

Jul. 27, 2009, 04:52 PM

Maybe - but are they more evil than SUGAR????????

Or high fructose corn syrup?

loshad

Jul. 27, 2009, 04:52 PM

Maybe - but are they more evil than SUGAR????????

Yes. It's very sad. They are even more evil than skinny jeans, and I think I speak for most of us when I say that's pretty darn evil.

Ghazzu

Jul. 27, 2009, 04:52 PM

Ghazzu, keep up! The point is eventers are EVIL. More evil than grain, bits, snaps, and shoes combined. DUH!

What I want to know is, can you prevent rotational falls with organic apple cider vinegar?

ThatScaryChick

Jul. 27, 2009, 04:54 PM

What I want to know is, can you prevent rotational falls with organic apple cider vinegar?

It depends, are your horses barefoot or shod?

Adamantane

Jul. 27, 2009, 04:55 PM

What I want to know is, can you prevent rotational falls with organic apple cider vinegar?

Just heartburn. I imagine deltawave will be here shortly to weigh in.

Shall we toss some carrots into the pot? Celery might be nice, too.

tx3dayeventer

Jul. 27, 2009, 05:00 PM

[]

MILOUTE55

Jul. 27, 2009, 05:03 PM

The only troll I see here, is the one who started the topic in the first place. I can't believe that you are honestly surprised, that you got the reaction that you did? :rolleyes:

well said :yes:

Vesper Sparrow

Jul. 27, 2009, 05:07 PM

Just imagine having that magazine sitting on your coffee table in the lounge at your lesson barn for all the parents to take a gander at:eek:....how long do you think Buffy,Muffy and Biff would be riding???? It is like going to your Drs. office and finding in the waiting room mag articles on how to save yourselves from botched surgeries and nasty bleeders and other malpractise debacles. Flip overs should be the EXCEPTION and NOT the rule and should not have to be practised BUT then I'm not an eventer and while I'm at it..why is it when eventing was dominated by TBs in long format this did not happen at the rate it is happening now?

This is ludicrous. The point of showing the rotational fall was not so that eventers could "practice" it but to provide an extreme example in which athleticism and a proper falling technique saved both the rider AND his horse (since dropping the reins allows the rider and the horse to balance themselves better).

Everyone should read the article, including h/j and dressage people. I'm not an eventer and I certainly learned something from it.

Peggy

Jul. 27, 2009, 05:14 PM

What I want to know is, can you prevent rotational falls with organic apple cider vinegar?Only if you are also packing baking soda. You see--the ACV rotates the horse backwards to correct a forward rotational fall, but if you use too much there is an overcorrection and the horse will start to do a reverse rotational fall. That's where the baking soda comes in--it neutralizes the backwards rotation by causing a forwards rotation. Oh, but wait--ACV is "alkalinizing" so you don't need the bicarb:lol:.

HenryisBlaisin'

Jul. 27, 2009, 05:21 PM

Instead you were like.....OMG...where's PETA? Phillip Dutton is killing his wife, flipping a horse and having dental work done on a horse that's bleeding profusely and sweating it's nuts off!

Wait...you mean THAT's where geldings come from?!?!?!?!:winkgrin:

cowgirljenn

Jul. 27, 2009, 05:31 PM

Jenn, we are in the process of designing a line of unique Special Horses, Inc. Tin Foil Hats that will be used for fundraising. I will keep you in the loop :D

Awesome! Can I have the BEHS logo on mine? I know it has special protections..

omare

Jul. 27, 2009, 05:32 PM

so does this mean that people who have died from rotational falls did not know how to fall properly?

Calvincrowe

Jul. 27, 2009, 05:36 PM

Hey JulieD, if you really want to get worked up over something, why don't you google "Omak Stampede". I think PETA has been on that case for sometime now...or "Mexican Horse Tripping" is a good one, too. You can offend Native Americans and Latinos while defending your right to voice an uneducated, vitriolic, strident opinion--all in one go! Why limit yourself to bashing eventing and bringing the "safe and healthy" world of H/J into it?

Did you even read the articles??

And, the cover of PH, sitting 8 inches from my hands as I type, shows Danny Warrington jumping beautifully over a Novice (?) Table it looks like. I don't even think his horse is sweating. Not sure how that could offend Mommy or Daddy in the barn, ever.

Surely, parents need to know that the sports their children engage in are ALL potentially dangerous--kids die in Little League games for cripes sake! Hell, LIFE is dangerous--don't let more kids get stuck in bubble wrap and computer games by sissy ass parents who are afraid of the world.

Tuckertoo

Jul. 27, 2009, 05:40 PM

...Flip overs should be the EXCEPTION and NOT the rule...

They are.

...and should not have to be practised BUT then I'm not an eventer...

Yes, because we go out and practice flipping our horses over solid fences. Every day. Actually, we cheer and celebrate when a horse or rider is seriously injured or killed due to a rotational fall.:no:

...and while I'm at it..why is it when eventing was dominated by TBs in long format this did not happen at the rate it is happening now?

We're trying to figure that out. Trust me, falls like these, and their increasing occurance, are just as alarming to eventers as they are to you. Whether you choose to believe so or not, the safety of our horses and riders is our biggest concern, hence the heavy emphasis on safety (not that safety wasn't always important, but with the increase in injuries and fatalities it is becoming extremely important). In fact, that's what these articles are about; increasing the horse's and rider's safety.

Please, read the Editor's Note in this issue of the PH.

I'm outta here.

atr

Jul. 27, 2009, 05:47 PM

OP, I'd drop that shovel and stop digging if I were you...

This has to be one of the most bizarre threads I have read in a very long time--which is saying something for CoTH in the summer time.

Frank B

Jul. 27, 2009, 05:58 PM

The OP may go down in infamy for having created another Gypsy Vanner thread (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fFoEYiM7lQ). :lol:

I found both mentioned articles interesting and very informative.

I'd like to see an in-depth follow-up to the "falls" article showing some exercises, physical and mental, to prepare the rider for such occasions. As the writer mentioned, very few of today's riders had the opportunity to gallop their ponies bareback helter-skelter over hill and dale.

The Pulmonary Hemorrage article goes into much more detail than others I remember reading.

Pony Person

Jul. 27, 2009, 06:01 PM

THIS is why PETA makes me ashamed to be pro animal welfare.:rolleyes:

OP- it is FINE for you to have your own opinion. But you have to remember it is FINE for others to have theirs. Don't shove your ways in our faces, like some high-and-mighty, holier-than-thou kook, and we'll play nice.:)

DQ- I'd like a virgin daiquiri, please.:yes:

PS: Pardon my ignorance, but what's POTUS? It sounds like a poisonous flower.:lol:

FlightCheck

Jul. 27, 2009, 06:03 PM

POTUS

President Of The United States

Pony Person

Jul. 27, 2009, 06:04 PM

POTUS

President Of The United States
Thank you.:)

Sebastian

Jul. 27, 2009, 06:04 PM

PS: Pardon my ignorance, but what's POTUS? It sounds like a poisonous flower.:lol:

POTUS = President of the United States. Apparently he is personally responsible for rotational falls AND the short format.

I'd like a martini please, dirty.

Seb :)

Pony Person

Jul. 27, 2009, 06:06 PM

POTUS = President of the United States. Apparently he is personally responsible for rotational falls AND the short format.
Tsk, tsk, tsk. What ISN'T he responsible for these days?!:lol:

cowgirljenn

Jul. 27, 2009, 06:11 PM

THIS is why PETA makes me ashamed to be pro animal welfare.:rolleyes:

PETA has NOTHING to do with animal welfare - so be pro-welfare without fear. PETA is an animal rights organization - and animal rights and animal welfare are vastly different.

ddashaq

Jul. 27, 2009, 06:17 PM

Seriously, do all the crazies come out at the end of the month or something? Between this crazed and irrational poster and the SNAPS poster, I haven't laughed this hard in a long time.:lol:

Susan P

Jul. 27, 2009, 06:18 PM

As far as I can tell, we may disagree with Julie D about Eventing being cruel but there were outright errors that disparaged someone's reputation and accused him of causing his wife's death. That's pretty darn serious, far beyond whether or not a sport is too dangerous and cruel. That's no longer a matter of opinion.

Also I never saw her retract that statement or attempt to delete it.

TheHorseProblem

Jul. 27, 2009, 06:18 PM

Ghazzu, keep up! The point is eventers are EVIL. More evil than grain, bits, snaps, and shoes combined. DUH!

Don't FORGET THE GOLDFISH!!!!!!!

JSwan

Jul. 27, 2009, 06:21 PM

Apparently he is personally responsible for rotational falls AND the short format.

And toothless horses.

FrankB - I can't think of any better preparation than foxhunting and polo.

Pony Person

Jul. 27, 2009, 06:21 PM

PETA has NOTHING to do with animal welfare - so be pro-welfare without fear. PETA is an animal rights organization - and animal rights and animal welfare are vastly different.
Yay! :D

Pony Person

Jul. 27, 2009, 06:23 PM

Don't FORGET THE GOLDFISH!!!!!!!
FORGET THE GOLDFISH AND FORGET THE SNAPS! HOW DARE YOU MENTION THAT, YOU ANIMAL ABUSER! I'M REPORTING YOU TO PETA AND HSUS!

Unless the goldfish you're talking about are the cheddar flavor cracker kind.:D

JSwan

Jul. 27, 2009, 06:23 PM

PS: Pardon my ignorance, but what's POTUS? It sounds like a poisonous flower.:lol:

Depends on which party you belong to.:winkgrin:

But in this context it stands for:

People Opposed to Toothless horses Under Saddle

loshad

Jul. 27, 2009, 06:24 PM

Tsk, tsk, tsk. What ISN'T he responsible for these days?!:lol:

You have to admit, though, that this is one of the more creative assignments of blame we've seen.

Pony Person

Jul. 27, 2009, 06:25 PM

Depends on which party you belong to.:winkgrin:

But in this context it stands for:

People Opposed to Toothless horses Under Saddle
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Susan P

Jul. 27, 2009, 06:28 PM

I see there was a minor change in the OP but it's still accusatory and wrong, in error. This is just looking for a law suit. It's a pretty serious thing to say about someone and a sensitive subject about the people she's writing about.

As far as I can tell, we may disagree with Julie D about Eventing being cruel but there were outright errors that disparaged someone's reputation and accused him of causing his wife's death. That's pretty darn serious, far beyond whether or not a sport is too dangerous and cruel. That's no longer a matter of opinion.

Also I never saw her retract that statement or attempt to delete it.

equinelaw

Jul. 27, 2009, 06:30 PM

Starting at the last page. . . . how did we get here:confused: Its funny though:lol::lol:

Pony Person

Jul. 27, 2009, 06:30 PM

You have to admit, though, that this is one of the more creative assignments of blame we've seen.
True. None of that stuff you see in the political threads (and if this turns into one, I'm outta here!), but rotational falls and the short format.

I'm lovin' CoTH trainwrecks, lately. They turn out to be so fun and informative. Thanks, Chronicle of the Horse! *thumbs up and sparkle-toothed grin*

dogchushu

Jul. 27, 2009, 06:38 PM

You can't be serious Reed..you obviously failed logic in school... PH has not had any articles on how to electracute your horse for fun and profit has it?? They were treated like the felons they were, not treated like some kind of heroes like in the "kick on at all costs" sport of eventing! Do please go there...there is absolutely no comparison, but good try! Gold star for you!

Wait! Did I get the wrong PH? Mine didn't have any articles on how to flip your horse or give him a bloody nose! Alas, my PH contained an article on what to do in the event of a fall and some information on Pulmonary hemorrhages. Both included pictures taken in competition, not staged for the articles.

Drat this split distribution editorial content! I wanna' get in on the flipping, nose bleeding, braless, beer-drinking, wife-killing, lesbian fun!

loshad

Jul. 27, 2009, 06:41 PM

Hold it, I really am a rocket scientist. And I can tell you I have no idea who JSwan voted for.

You just can't get good rocket scientist/political prognosticators like you used to. I'll bet that's the President's fault too.

Pony Person

Jul. 27, 2009, 06:44 PM

RAyers

Jul. 27, 2009, 06:48 PM

If anything, this thread is going to make me giggle like a schoolgirl the next time I hear a trainer at a h/j show tell a student to "Float their teeth if they run away with you." or when I have to take a tug on course with my Nathe bit.

I will at least know I am following in the highest tradition of horsemen/women by make sure my horse has proper dentistry prior to flipping.

JulieD, as a person who is involved, along with many who post here, the research into understanding these issues, I will re-iterate the vast, inconceivable expanse, galaxy wide, solar system swallowing of lack of knowledge and understanding you are displaying in your statements. I respect your position as to your belief that these articles are sickening, but it stops the moment you are putting additional thoughts to the keyboard.

Reed

JulieD

Jul. 27, 2009, 06:53 PM

Rayers the day I start making sense to you or anyone of your ilk, is the day I should be committed. Enough said! I can't wait for the day that they ban the "sport"!

Adamantane

Jul. 27, 2009, 06:55 PM

I see there was a minor change in the OP but it's still accusatory and wrong, in error. This is just looking for a law suit. It's a pretty serious thing to say about someone and a sensitive subject about the people she's writing about.

I think everyone's safe. I'm no lawyer, but I think it requires intent. And while there was no formal retraction, OP stated that she got the names wrong. And then there is the matter of credibility.

Maybe equinelaw can weigh in on this, or eclectic horseman, or any of a number of others who actually are lawyers. One also hopes Mr and Mrs. Dutton have a robust good nature.

When one considers the truly bizarre and absurd things people have accused most all of us of at one time or another, it's a good thing most people have a sense of humor or at least the common sense to put things into a rational perspective.

Pony Person

Jul. 27, 2009, 06:56 PM

Rayers the day I start making sense to you or anyone of your ilk, is the day I should be committed. Enough said! I can't wait for the day that they ban the "sport"!
Just out of curiosity, what discipline of riding do you do?

Susan P

Jul. 27, 2009, 06:56 PM

Is this article available on line or do I have to go buy a copy of PH? I know it must cost $6 by now, geez. :eek: Yeah, I'm cheap, no not really, just horse poor, 3 horses, 1 riding granddaughter = $00.00.

dogchushu

Jul. 27, 2009, 06:57 PM

Rayers the day I start making sense to you or anyone of your ilk, is the day I should be committed.

Reed has "ilk" now? Do you get it from flipping, teeth-floating, braless, lesbian activities? Can you be treated for it?

Enough said! I can't wait for the day that they ban the "sport"!

If that's the case then you should be glad PH printed the photos rather than getting all huffy about it. Would it be better to pretend bad things never happen? You know, like the bad things that never happen in other horse sports?

cowgirljenn

Jul. 27, 2009, 07:00 PM

Rayers the day I start making sense to you or anyone of your ilk, is the day I should be committed. Enough said! I can't wait for the day that they ban the "sport"!

Awesome come back! And great way to sway people to your point of view.

But then again, I'm evil and you won't make sense to me - I'm of Rayers' ilk (you know, educated scientist).

JulieD

Jul. 27, 2009, 07:01 PM

just to help you out deary.... Show Spelled Pronunciation [ilk] Show IPA
Use ilk in a Sentence
–noun 1. family, class, or kind: he and all his ilk.

Adamantane

Jul. 27, 2009, 07:02 PM

Rayers the day I start making sense to you or anyone of your ilk, is the day I should be committed. Enough said! I can't wait for the day that they ban the "sport"!

ilk? For the love of god, Julie, have the grace to retreat in the face of disaster.

For my part, I am sure your entirely praiseworthy passionate love of horses and deep-rooted kind regard for all creatures has carried you to a point where it is difficult to back away, but you are not helping your cause.

Surely you don't wish to utterly discredit it?

equinelaw

Jul. 27, 2009, 07:03 PM

I think everyone's safe. I'm no lawyer, but I think it requires intent. And while there was no formal retraction, OP stated that she got the names wrong. And then there is the matter of credibility.

Maybe equinelaw can weigh in on this, or eclectic horseman, or any of a number of others who actually are lawyers. One also hopes Mr and Mrs. Dutton have a robust good nature.

When one considers the truly bizarre and absurd things people have accused most all of us of at one time or another, it's a good thing most people have a sense of humor or at least the common sense to put things into a rational perspective.

Oh hell no. The Duttons live here and can hire me to represent them!:winkgrin: But somehow I think they have better things to do.

ThatScaryChick

Jul. 27, 2009, 07:05 PM

Since you are handing out definitions, here's one for you Julie:

troll
- noun 3. a person who posts deliberately inflammatory messages on an internet discussion board.

JulieD

Jul. 27, 2009, 07:07 PM

OMG...I'm so sorry that my vocabulary exceeded (that means went past) the TRAGIC victims of our liberal education system. LOL!

onelanerode

Jul. 27, 2009, 07:09 PM

Hey I share RAyers' viewpoints on pretty much everything I've read (so far). I'll be happy to say you make sense to me if that means you'll commit yourself.

Except then I'd lose a truly outstanding source of entertainment.

So no, sorry ... you still don't make sense to me. Maybe I need to put some tin foil in my helmet and drink some apple cider vinegar or something. :winkgrin:

harvestmoon

Jul. 27, 2009, 07:09 PM

PS: Pardon my ignorance, but what's POTUS? It sounds like a poisonous flower.:lol:

Can I just say that it took me forever to realize what POTUS meant. I was like, "WTF is a POTUS?" ;) It does kinda' sound like a poisonous flower...:lol:

ThatScaryChick

Jul. 27, 2009, 07:10 PM

OMG...I'm so sorry that my vocabulary exceeded (that means went past) the TRAGIC victims of our liberal education system. LOL!

Your vocabulary didn't go past anyone besides you. You have the nerve to call others out on not being educated, yet you can't even read an article and post the correct information. Or did you forget your original post?

Daydream Believer

Jul. 27, 2009, 07:11 PM

Amanda had a tragic accident, it was awful. I was at Fair Hill watching the competition that day. The roll top was not extreme but it was the last ride of the day. Perhaps she was just a bit tired, the horse didn't pick up his feet just right. I don't see how her husband had any decision in her riding that day and she had already jumped that jump previously the same day. As I was walking back to my car I saw her laying there and him standing or pacing over her waiting for the helicopter. I knew with the expression on him that it was extremely serious. I know she was in the hospital for a while before they gave up hope, don't remember how long. I just remember asking for news. The whole eventing world was very disturbed by her accident, especially locally and everyone close to her was beyond consolable. No one took it lightly. I don't think that jump was more than she could handle, but apparently the horse just miscalculated as perhaps did she. Since it was later in the day, I'm thinking the sun was not as bright or the lighting was different, perhaps that contributed to the miscalculation.

Amanda was my friend. I used to groom for her at times. The horse she fell from was Chevalier who was later taken to the Olympics by Bobby Costello. He was a very nice horse who had been around some tough courses prior to that and he was not overfaced. I was not there but I heard it was a very easy jump and he just took off wrong. She suffered a bad head injury and never came out of it. I was devastated. She was a very very nice person and so talented. It was a tragic loss for the eventing world.

equinelaw

Jul. 27, 2009, 07:11 PM

Only liberal West Wing Lovn' ignorant COTHrs know POTUS:D

ETA I followed a sad serious post. That part is not funny.

Bluey

Jul. 27, 2009, 07:14 PM

Just out of curiosity, what discipline of riding do you do?

Good question.;)

Susan P

Jul. 27, 2009, 07:14 PM

Phillip and Evie are very good natured people, kind too. But they were good friends, close friends with Amanda and that may be another story. I'm sure they are good friends with Danny too and he's trying to move on with his life, it was really a hard thing to lose his wife, I was there, saw this man so tense, pacing, repeatedly running his hand over his head in a panic while the paramedics worked on Amanda. I know the atmosphere while everyone awaited the news from the hospital. This was not something that was amusing in any way. I think if Danny had anything to do with that article it was to help prevent more tragedies. All of Amanda's friends, and since she was a customer of my husband's our business was also very depressed because everyone really liked both Amanda and Danny very much. Here she was a rising star in the Eventing world and highly respected and her life ended much too soon. It was an accident, and if we bubble wrap ourselves we should never leave the house, don't drive for crying out loud, there are other vehicles on the road, big trucks, even trains cross the road. You can't go to the store, recently around here a high school girl was nearly abducted, she barely got away and they found her car burned. You sure can't work because your workplace is dangerous in so many ways.

There are a lot of extreme sports, but people and horses are injured and even die by doing virtually nothing. Should we all live in padded rooms?

I think it's great that someone is addressing safety in this sport and if there are complaints about the courses being too dangerous then that should be take up with the governing organization. I believe it already has been and they have cut down on the jumps and hazards. But this is a test of the best of horse and human.

I think everyone's safe. I'm no lawyer, but I think it requires intent. And while there was no formal retraction, OP stated that she got the names wrong. And then there is the matter of credibility.

Maybe equinelaw can weigh in on this, or eclectic horseman, or any of a number of others who actually are lawyers. One also hopes Mr and Mrs. Dutton have a robust good nature.

When one considers the truly bizarre and absurd things people have accused most all of us of at one time or another, it's a good thing most people have a sense of humor or at least the common sense to put things into a rational perspective.

cowgirljenn

Jul. 27, 2009, 07:17 PM

Only liberal West Wing Lovn' ignorant COTHrs know POTUS:D

Guilty as charged. :)

JulieD

Jul. 27, 2009, 07:20 PM

Ok I'm all done having a battle of wits with the unarmed(does not mean ppl without arms, it means people without weapons but in this case wit) here..now everyone go read the article and take Fluffy out tomorrow and practise rotational falls because as the to quote the person in the article "they WILL happen" (there goes the theory of them being the exception")...:eek:..

Susan P

Jul. 27, 2009, 07:22 PM

I'm glad someone that knows her is speaking up. I never met her, I spoke to Danny about a year ago on the phone about horse training.

I was there the day it happened but didn't see the fall but saw the jump. As you say, it was not an exceptional jump, a simple roll top, it was just the wrong jump at the wrong time, and these kind of accidents happen. I think what the article probably is saying is how to prepare for what WILL happen to many people and if it does, to try the best to minimize damage. When I saw the jump I could just picture how the accident happened, it seemed obvious but then again I didn't see it so I could be all wrong. We can second guess ourselves all day, if only we knew, but that's not life, not reality.

Amanda was my friend. I used to groom for her at times. The horse she fell from was Chevalier who was later taken to the Olympics by Bobby Costello. He was a very nice horse who had been around some tough courses prior to that and he was not overfaced. I was not there but I heard it was a very easy jump and he just took off wrong. She suffered a bad head injury and never came out of it. I was devastated. She was a very very nice person and so talented. It was a tragic loss for the eventing world.

RAyers

Jul. 27, 2009, 07:27 PM

Reed has "ilk" now? Do you get it from flipping, teeth-floating, braless, lesbian activities? Can you be treated for it?

Doctor said it was terminal. Maybe she meant "milk" as I have a nice glass of that every morning!

Reed

Ghazzu

Jul. 27, 2009, 07:35 PM

just to help you out deary.... Show Spelled Pronunciation [ilk] Show IPA
Use ilk in a Sentence
–noun 1. family, class, or kind: he and all his ilk.

Good for you!
Now go look up how to spell electrocute.

Dispatcher

Jul. 27, 2009, 07:39 PM

Ride2Dreams

Jul. 27, 2009, 07:41 PM

I find it highly amusing on here that if you voice an opinion that the "pack" does not agree with or takes offense to they are on you like a pack of starving wolves on a deer carcass..OMG it has to be a troll with that opinion or they are just stirring the pot!...LOL.. if nothing else "girls" you are true to form!

I just have to know.. did you READ the articles before making that first post? Or did you just look at the pictures then scan the article taking the bits and pieces that appealed to your gossip loving and come to your own conclusions?

Bluey

Jul. 27, 2009, 07:44 PM

Oh lordy, lordy. The OP made some serious errors in her post, but c'mon now, who are the trolls?! Looks like a lot of folks jumped on the bandwagon just to make a trainwreck. I think some folks were just itchin' to start something. Maybe the heat got to them.....

I think a civilized correction of the OP's "facts" would have gone a lot farther than the feeding frenzy that it has become.

I didn't see much civilized in the OP's initial post and it went downhill after that in her subsequent ones.:eek:

I don't think you are blaming the right suspects here.;)

Ride2Dreams

Jul. 27, 2009, 07:47 PM

I agree with Bluey up there. The thread was actually highly entertaining and very tongue in cheek until the OP stirred the pot and it turned sour. Bring the humor back! I'm not witty enough to!

Dispatcher

Jul. 27, 2009, 07:52 PM

I didn't see much civilized in the OP's initial post and it went downhill after that in her subsequent ones.:eek:

I don't think you are blaming the right suspects here.;)

I agree with you about the subsequent posts. But I think the initial post was just grossly wrong in fact--not necessarily uncivilized. The OP has a point about the "pack".

A simple correction of the facts would have derailed the onslaught. Unless that's what people wanted to do....

I'm tellin' ya, it's the heat.

Guin

Jul. 27, 2009, 08:00 PM

Just imagine having that magazine sitting on your coffee table in the lounge at your lesson barn for all the parents to take a gander at:eek:....how long do you think Buffy,Muffy and Biff would be riding???? ?

Oh dear, I'm afraid Buffy, Muffy, and Biff are off playing tennis with Daddy at the Club. Muffy did try riding a pony, but it was just so....dirty. And all that blood from when that mean trainer lady made her pull out the pony's teeth, too!

Sebastian

Jul. 27, 2009, 08:51 PM

I agree with you about the subsequent posts. But I think the initial post was just grossly wrong in fact--not necessarily uncivilized. The OP has a point about the "pack".

A simple correction of the facts would have derailed the onslaught. Unless that's what people wanted to do....

I'm tellin' ya, it's the heat.

Even here from the confines of my VERY air-conditioned office, the OP was ANYTHING but civilized.

Had one raised the obvious questions and concerns those articles would invoke...it might have led to an interesting and thoughtful discussion. But, alas, the absurd accusations and misinformation led to humor (I mean, really, where else could one go from there)... Then, ridicule when the OP returned to try to defend the indefensible.

I have no pity for her...
Seb :)

p.s. FWIW, I've seen a number of horses, Hunters and Jumpers, flipped by a miscalculation or bad riding... Crap happens everywhere.

AND, I give KUDOS to Practical Horseman for "going there."

oldenmare

Jul. 27, 2009, 08:52 PM

Guin

Just lost it - spewed diet coke ALL over laptop - thanks for the cleaning job you've given me!!!

And my trainer was my dad - who would have told me to suck it up, the bit will feel better without the teeth, the blood will wash off - get back on the damn horse and RIDE. He'd have said same to Buffy, Muffy & Biff...

And he was an honest-to-God cowboy (good sense - we owned cattle and had working cowhorses , not a yahoo by any means) - but he feels that same way about my eventing ambitions.... RIDE THE HORSE.

I have read most of this post with great laughter - as I simply can't take the OP seriously after her initial posts and comments thereafter (and I have a better than "liberal public school" education - although I have that, too) - talk about cutting the rug out from under your feet!!! :eek:

hey - we need to find Dizzywriter - she can have a new Buffy thread about rotational falls and irrational readers!!!! :yes:

Guin

Jul. 27, 2009, 08:56 PM

;) @ Olden. I got me one o' them liberal public skool eddications, too.

Eventer55

Jul. 27, 2009, 09:01 PM

OMG I had to go get my truck from the dealer and was sooooo worried this would have ended. WEll, thankfully you're all still here, bras and everything!!!!!

Pat

Jul. 27, 2009, 09:09 PM

Well excuse me for typing the wrong last name in at the start of the post! Stand by what I stated about the article:yes:..and hmmmm I've been around a long time in the h/j world and have never seen a bleed like that..only at the racetrack..Mods feel free to move this over to eventing..not afraid to say it there but thought it was more approprate here seeing as I was commenting on the magazine printing a article like THAT:no:

Did your parents have any kids that lived??

Really, now. You effed up all the facts and you think it doesn't matter? riiiight

Oh, and just because *YOU* haven't seen a bad bleeder, it's not possible??

jeezus.

Smells like a troll to me. Been here since almost the beginning. I'm pretty sure I know what trolls smell like.

Uncivilized? maybe. WRONG as all heck AND begging for DRAMA? You betcha. The OP sure as heck knew *exactly* what she was doing when she started this. I'll even go so far as to say she messed up the facts on purpose too.

Eventer55

Jul. 27, 2009, 09:16 PM

A friend of mine who is French was arguing with her husband one dday when he stopped and said "you know when you argue, you lose sight of the objective" and she said "there's an objective?"

That about sums up this thread "there's an objective?" I mean bras, blood, suspense, all that's missing is Cow tipping. . .

Good night.

Sebastian

Jul. 27, 2009, 09:20 PM

...all that's missing is Cow tipping. . .

Good night.

And, Sumo Wrestlers.
Seb :)

TheHorseProblem

Jul. 27, 2009, 09:21 PM

well this is sure to end well...

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

IrishDeclan

Jul. 27, 2009, 09:26 PM

[QUOTE=JulieD;4265292]...since some of you are soooooooooooo superior pray tell how you know which way the horse is going to rotate in a fall..do you carry protractors and transits so you know which direction things are going????QUOTE]

I'm joining this party a bit late, please excuse my tardiness :D. I just read through the entire thread, but my mind kept coming back to this one statement made by the OP. I don't pretend to be soooooooooooooooo superior, but I definitely don't need a protractor to figure out which way my horse is going to fall when he fails to pick up his legs, chests a fence at high speed, and topples over said fence end over end. If I'm correct, you don't have very many options regarding rotational direction at that point :winkgrin:.

I'm also going to say kudos to Phillip for allowing those photos to be used so that we could all learn something, which from what I'm reading on this thread, many people did.

OP- YOUR opinion is just that....yours. Feel free to express it in a mature way. Please don't come on here though and spew your toxic venom. Us eventers are probably not a group you want to rile up :winkgrin:. So while you're posting at the canter around your safe little ring jumping your pretty flowerboxes and counting strides between two jumps that us eventers are smart enough to know are not related.... I'll be tearing it up on the cross country course, loving what I do and knowing that my horse loves it too :yes:.

equinelaw

Jul. 27, 2009, 09:33 PM

And, Sumo Wrestlers.
Seb :)

and their ilk.:D

cowgirljenn

Jul. 27, 2009, 09:56 PM

and their ilk.:D

I want my own ilk.

TheHorseProblem

Jul. 27, 2009, 10:24 PM

I want my own ilk.

Start an ilk thread.

JulieD

Jul. 27, 2009, 10:26 PM

No need to remove the personal attack honey..unlike most of you I don't feel the need to run crying to the mods about them..cause trust me I can dish them as well as take them..LOL..pathetic...really! So explain to me rocket scientist how you know that the horse when it flips over the fence is going to land straight on his back and not go left or right? I can't wait to hear this one!!!! LMFAO...

Jumphigh83

Jul. 27, 2009, 10:27 PM

equineartworks

Jul. 27, 2009, 10:28 PM

I don't need an ilk...but I do still want a patterned tin foil hat.

JSwan

Jul. 27, 2009, 10:39 PM

Hold it, I really am a rocket scientist. And I can tell you I have no idea who JSwan voted for.

Another harumph!

I voted for ME! :D

Can I be an ilk too? Sounds like fun. I even have my own tinfoil hat, and a vast store of wit and weaponry.

cowgirljenn

Jul. 27, 2009, 10:43 PM

Can I be an ilk too? Sounds like fun. I even have my own tinfoil hat, and a vast store of wit and weaponry.

JSwan, by the powers vested in my by my own imagination, I formally "Ilk" you. You are now your own Ilk. Watch the mail for your special ilk-patterned helmet.

Pony Person

Jul. 27, 2009, 10:43 PM

Can I be an ilk too? Sounds like fun. I even have my own tinfoil hat, and a vast store of wit and weaponry.
Me too?? Pretty please??:D

JulieD

Jul. 27, 2009, 10:45 PM

and true to form the Coth yentas resort to mockery and name calling when they run out of reason and substance. Glad to see the "pack" stays together! LOL

Jumphigh83

Jul. 27, 2009, 10:46 PM

cowgirljenn

Jul. 27, 2009, 10:48 PM

Me too?? Pretty please??:D

I think you'll have to be a Junior Ilk.

JSwan

Jul. 27, 2009, 10:50 PM

and true to form the Coth yentas resort to mockery and name calling when they run out of reason and substance. Glad to see the "pack" stays together! LOL

If you had offered reason and substance, you would have received the same in return.

From what I can tell, you've yet to offer any information or writing that is not completely devoid of merit, as well as intellect. Not to mention facts.

Pony Person

Jul. 27, 2009, 10:52 PM

I think you'll have to be a Junior Ilk.
Great!:)

cowgirljenn

Jul. 27, 2009, 10:53 PM

Taking a break from my light-hearted fun (which only someone incredibly cold-hearted would deny me right now, considering what's going on).... being serious for a moment:

I don't think the goal of Practical Horseman is to win over Mr. Horselovingdaughter. The goal of the magazine is to present information to horse people that may be of use to them. This includes covering information on diseases (the pulmonary hemorrhaging) and safety issues such as dealing with falls safely. If you are worried about your clients being turned away by fear of injuries, perhaps it is time to stress your safety measures and why you do them.

The fact is horses ARE dangerous. Many of us have either had serious injuries or known people who have suffered serious injuries (some resulting in death). Ignoring the danger that can be present when riding and handling horses doesn't do anyone any favors. i wish there were MORE articles on safety out there.

I can only imagine the look on the face of Mr Horselovingdughter when he takes his little darling to the local tack shop just to look at the horse stuff and they leave with a hoof pick and a nice "horsie magazine" that later turns out to be Horsie Sadomasochism and how your little pony could bleed to death!! Next stop?? The tennis court or the Ballet class since neither the racket nor the shoes will suddenly turn on you and try to kill you! What was PH even thinking???????:eek::eek: NOT even looking at this from a H/J vs Event point of view this is a COLOSSALLY BAD thing to put front and center as a matter of public media vis a vis gaining support for our sports!!!?? I cant believe this whole thing. Wow.

cowgirljenn

Jul. 27, 2009, 10:56 PM

From what I can tell, you've yet to offer any information or writing that is not completely devoid of merit, as well as intellect. Not to mention facts.

You forgot to add that her writing was insulting and belittling too.

:)

Peggy

Jul. 27, 2009, 10:57 PM

May I be an ilk too? I pretty much flunked out of preschool ballet (where I was fairly dangerous as I apparently tended to collide with the other girls) so that should qualify me.

Beezer

Jul. 27, 2009, 11:00 PM

May I be an ilk too? I pretty much flunked out of preschool ballet (where I was fairly dangerous as I apparently tended to collide with the other girls) so that should qualify me.

Wait! Did we have the same teacher?? Cause that pretty much describes MY ballet career, too. I got booted out. :no:

I BLAME MY BALLET TEACHER FOR ALL MY FAILINGS IN LIFE!!

Pony Person

Jul. 27, 2009, 11:01 PM

Will the Ilk be riding Elk while we drink milk?

cowgirljenn

Jul. 27, 2009, 11:03 PM

May I be an ilk too? I pretty much flunked out of preschool ballet (where I was fairly dangerous as I apparently tended to collide with the other girls) so that should qualify me.

Peggy, I hearby present you with your Ilk helmet. Use it wisely. And beware the rotational fall!

cowgirljenn

Jul. 27, 2009, 11:03 PM

Will the Ilk be riding Elk while we drink milk?

All Ilk ride Elk with our Ilk-patterned helmets.

RAyers

Jul. 27, 2009, 11:07 PM

I can only imagine the look on the face of Mr Horselovingdughter when he takes his little darling to the local tack shop just to look at the horse stuff and they leave with a hoof pick and a nice "horsie magazine" that later turns out to be Horsie Sadomasochism and how your little pony could bleed to death!! Next stop?? The tennis court or the Ballet class since neither the racket nor the shoes will suddenly turn on you and try to kill you! What was PH even thinking???????:eek::eek: NOT even looking at this from a H/J vs Event point of view this is a COLOSSALLY BAD thing to put front and center as a matter of public media vis a vis gaining support for our sports!!!?? I cant believe this whole thing. Wow.

I am willing to discuss this.

That is one way to see it and I do agree that there is a PR risk. However, having a horse killed in front of hundreds live, or having the papers filled with lurid details of murders for hire is not much different, is it? The only change is that this is recent and actually attempts to explain these situations. Look at what's his name and the vitriol that crops up when he is mentioned on the h/j forum! And he is still in the game.

Things like EIPH may be more common in the h/j world than is realized due to the prevalent use of heparin like substances. Only via the incidents in eventing is this knowledge coming to light and I think it is better the public see it now than when a horse drops for no reason in the arena or out on XC.

Another way to see things, at least from the fall article, is that too many folks got too damn comfortable thinking they could buy their way to the top and do it without risk. Well, this article is a nice little warning sign of the REAL danger inherent in all horse sports. Maybe Mr. Horseluvingdaughter and family need to get a bit of a reality check now before something really bad happens.

I taught a young girl in the 1980s who went to pony finals. She was an absolutely great rider. She never fell off and her parents bought her top dollar ponies. Well, one day during a lesson the pony spooked, she fell off, broke her arm and NEVER rode again. She literally never came to the barn again and the parent sold the ponies within a few weeks. They all suddenly realized how damn dangerous this sport is. It is NOT checkers or World Series of Poker, no matter how trainers try to package it.

Reed

HenryisBlaisin'

Jul. 27, 2009, 11:07 PM

All I have to say about this thread and the article is that I personally REMOVED the PH from the viewing room of my barn for the sake of my lesson clientele (that is ALL Mr and Mrs Happy Horselovingdaughter needs to see!!! What they have to look forward to with their little princess...OMG)...It was the very WORST possible public relations disaster I have ever seen in print! I am horrified that PH thinks there is a way to "practice" life threatening falls and the related images of the bleeding horses was enough to make me toss that issue and maybe my 20 year plus subscription in the circular file.Anyone who thinks that this maneuver on the part of PH was positive might want to reconsider how this all looks to the innocent and naive spectator. It isnt pretty and you don't look like heroes you look like someone with a death wish, not only for yourselves but for their horses....wow..this one was certainly over the top. :eek::eek::eek:

If you're so innocent and naive as to believe that experienced horsepeople never face danger or horses face disease or injury...perhaps you're better off on the tennis court or in the dance studio. Falls happen; isn't it best to know that and to also know the best way to fall to minimize injury to rider and horse? Horses get ill or injured; isn't it best to keep up with current science so that should anything happen to YOUR horse, you are educated and prepared to deal with it and discuss it intelligently with your vet?

Burying your, or your clients', heads in the sand isn't any way to deal with the reality of the horse world.

Peggy

Jul. 27, 2009, 11:08 PM

Wait! Did we have the same teacher?? Cause that pretty much describes MY ballet career, too. I got booted out. :no:

I BLAME MY BALLET TEACHER FOR ALL MY FAILINGS IN LIFE!!I think it was more like my mom removed me before she died of terminal embarrassment with the other moms whispering "whose 'little' girl is that?" But it was all good b/c then she signed me up for riding lessons:D.

Thank you for the ilkhood, cowgirljenn! I shall wear my hat with pride.

Calvincrowe

Jul. 27, 2009, 11:12 PM

JumpHigh83--Seriously? These two articles address REAL issues that face anyone who jumps a horse, not just eventers. I've seen horrible falls resulting in serious injury over X's and even on the flat. Talking about why we fall, how to fall in a safer manner, and how practicing it, even "in your head" will help YOU the next time you take a spill is a VERY GOOD THING!!

Bleeding occurs in horses involved in many equestrian sports--endurance, racing, gaming, dare I say, even jumpers and hunters. If you'd read the article with a smidge of comprehension, you'd see that external bleeding from the nostrils is not always present in a bleeder. Your precious pony could be a bleeder, and you'll never know it....til he/she drops dead.

Deal with the harsh realities of life, or go sit at home in your happy fantasy land. ARGH. This thread really irks me-- It should be everyone's task to help educate new riders to the good and bad parts of horse ownership. Kudos to PH for tackling this. As someone previously said, read the editor's comments on the front of the magazine, it might explain why they included it.

equinelaw

Jul. 27, 2009, 11:13 PM

Ilking it for all its worth.:)

Practical Horseman. . is well. . practical? Not buy me a pony Mommy because they are not dangerous and they never bleed Horseman?

Horses fall down, flip over, bleed and die. I children can't hack all that they need to stick to bikes. But that's dangerous too. . . .

Adamantane

Jul. 27, 2009, 11:20 PM

Julie,

Have done everything I can think of to try to find a means for you to save yourself from a self-destructive bent.

Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain.

Good luck. You will need all that and more.

equinelaw

Jul. 27, 2009, 11:26 PM

OMFG I saw that Fly and you beat me to the post about it. Now I will have to go post it over on Crotch. Yellewdog. That explains a lot.:yes::no:

JulieD

Jul. 27, 2009, 11:34 PM

Just goes to show there are more than a few of us that were horrified that's all:yes:

Peggy

Jul. 27, 2009, 11:39 PM

The PH article catalyzed a conversation with one of my fellow adult riders at the barn on Sunday AM. This woman has never evented and aspires to the low adult hunters. Nonetheless, being a realist and knowing that everyone falls eventually, she felt that she took away some useful information from the article. She felt nothing but awe for PD and his ability to react and noted that she probably would have been tipped forward, held on to the reins, and likely flung violently as a result. The article increased her resolve not to tip forward when she gets into trouble and made her realize that, in certain situations, slipping the reins was an appropriate response (tho counter to our tendency to want to help the horse).

We went on to discuss how much of PD's reaction was conscious and how much was reflex/muscle memory. I noted that when Star had tripped and stumbled badly the day before that I had managed to sit up and slip the reins, but that it was an instinctive reaction. Despite the fact that our interesting maneuver occurred almost under her horse's nose, she hadn't noticed what I'd done at the time; however, what she read in the article did stick.

If the article catalyzes conversations like ours it is a good thing indeed.

MHM

Jul. 27, 2009, 11:40 PM

OMFG I saw that Fly and you beat me to the post about it. Now I will have to go post it over on Crotch. Yellewdog. That explains a lot.:yes::no:

Gee, where did you find this?

Someplace that's a bastion of polite and rational discussion, no doubt.

equinelaw

Jul. 27, 2009, 11:45 PM

Gee, where did you find this?

Someplace that's a bastion of polite and rational discussion, no doubt.

They have a right to have their own place to vent, but it kind of shows JulieD knew what she was starting when she posted here. It was not meant as a start to a rational conversation about safety. It was a poke.

Sebastian

Jul. 28, 2009, 12:19 AM

I am willing to discuss this.

That is one way to see it and I do agree that there is a PR risk. However, having a horse killed in front of hundreds live, or having the papers filled with lurid details of murders for hire is not much different, is it? The only change is that this is recent and actually attempts to explain these situations. Look at what's his name and the vitriol that crops up when he is mentioned on the h/j forum! And he is still in the game.

Things like EIPH may be more common in the h/j world than is realized due to the prevalent use of heparin like substances. Only via the incidents in eventing is this knowledge coming to light and I think it is better the public see it now than when a horse drops for no reason in the arena or out on XC.

Another way to see things, at least from the fall article, is that too many folks got too damn comfortable thinking they could buy their way to the top and do it without risk. Well, this article is a nice little warning sign of the REAL danger inherent in all horse sports. Maybe Mr. Horseluvingdaughter and family need to get a bit of a reality check now before something really bad happens.

I taught a young girl in the 1980s who went to pony finals. She was an absolutely great rider. She never fell off and her parents bought her top dollar ponies. Well, one day during a lesson the pony spooked, she fell off, broke her arm and NEVER rode again. She literally never came to the barn again and the parent sold the ponies within a few weeks. They all suddenly realized how damn dangerous this sport is. It is NOT checkers or World Series of Poker, no matter how trainers try to package it.

Reed

Bravo, Reed. This is precisely why my hat is off to PH. The wake-up call is LONG over due.

Seb :)

Ghazzu

Jul. 28, 2009, 12:25 AM

and true to form the Coth yentas resort to mockery and name calling when they run out of reason and substance. Glad to see the "pack" stays together! LOL

Honey, invest in a mirror.

oldenmare

Jul. 28, 2009, 12:46 AM

Ghazzu

Do trolls reflect? :winkgrin:

OM

Ambrey

Jul. 28, 2009, 12:48 AM

Do trolls reflect? :winkgrin:

Only in mirrored bridges. :winkgrin:

Parker_Rider

Jul. 28, 2009, 04:16 AM

Reed,
Must I burn my bra to be of your ilk? Or can I just be a teeth-pulling, lesbian, wine-drinking-at-9-in-the-morning, POTUS supporting, liberal public skool edumacated ilk?

And I will only practice my rotational falls if I have an objective, 3 judge panel to rate my practice falls and my real falls too (but no Russians or French!). These judges must follow me around and submit my scores to the overseeing body (Presumably USEA?) so that I can get year-end points for my falls. AND I propose that we get double bonus points if we can pull our horses teeth while we're falling.

On a serious note, when I was 4 and learning to ride on a 16.3 saddlebred, one of the first things my trainer did, with my mama standing by, was teach me how to fall. No sugarcoating it: "Real riders fall. You need to know how to do it." First she showed me on the ground (I had to "fall" from a standing position) and then she put me on Irish and made me tell her what I would do in a regular fall. Which, of course, does me not a bit of good if my wonderful current horse takes off bucking and swerves to avoid the end of the ring and I go flying into the wall, but it helps when you get a bit of a warning. Like when your horse's feet go flying out from underneath her and you get a split second to think about falling on your side, trying to land on your shoulder and not your head...
These things are real. We all fall off, even in our great sport of h/j. Christopher Reeves, anyone? Knowing how to do it safely and knowing how to teach your muscles to remember to do it (as someone else pointed out) is important to not only not breaking bones, but in some instances, survival.

Like Mr. Morris told us: This is not your mother's badminton league. Riding is a tough sport. This isn't badminton. It's tough, so you'd better get tough!!!
(Italics where GM started yelling! :))

And on a completely separate note... I think eventing is a sport. and it's a sport I will never do because, frankly, I don't have the balls. :D But at least I can admit it!

3eme

Jul. 28, 2009, 04:54 AM

May I be an ilk too? I pretty much flunked out of preschool ballet (where I was fairly dangerous as I apparently tended to collide with the other girls) so that should qualify me.

No ballet here, but I blinded myself (temporarily) after taking a tennis ball in the eyeball on only my third day of tennis lessons. I am THAT good. Does this make me of the ilk too? :winkgrin:

3eme

Jul. 28, 2009, 04:56 AM

WHERE THE HECK IS THE STICK ART ON THIS THREAD?

gloriginger

Jul. 28, 2009, 06:34 AM

OMG...I'm so sorry that my vocabulary exceeded (that means went past) the TRAGIC victims of our liberal education system. LOL!

not impressed. Anyone can use thesaurus.com. Darling- just cuz ya use big words, doesn't make ya smart!

And FWIW- you might want to check out these sites Dictionary.com (great for the correct way to Spell!) and this would probably be a helpful site for you too.

http://www.elearnenglishlanguage.com/difficulties/thanthen.html

I do hate when people are grammar police on forums, because I know often times people are just typing fast...but when someone is clearly just looking up synonyms to try to make themselves look smarter, it does rubs me the wrong way. Using big words in the wrong context does not make someone smart-or appear to be smart.

I must say though, you have really covered some ground here- from eventing, to the Pres. to now the "liberal" education system...sure seems like a case of little girl mad at the world!

JSwan

Jul. 28, 2009, 06:44 AM

OMFG I saw that Fly and you beat me to the post about it. Now I will have to go post it over on Crotch. Yellewdog. That explains a lot.:yes::no:

What? What? Did I miss something?????? Fill me in!

. It was not meant as a start to a rational conversation about safety. It was a poke.

Based on her other posts, I figured that was the case.

DairyQueen2049

Jul. 28, 2009, 07:10 AM

Drat this split distribution editorial content! I wanna' get in on the flipping, nose bleeding, braless, beer-drinking, wife-killing, lesbian fun!

Another day at COTH. :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

DairyQueen2049

Jul. 28, 2009, 07:25 AM

If you had offered reason and substance, you would have received the same in return.

From what I can tell, you've yet to offer any information or writing that is not completely devoid of merit, as well as intellect. Not to mention facts.

Exactly.

How many of us have complained recently about the 'dumming down' of all the nag mags? I know I have complained about it. With this issue of PH I actually felt they were writing FOR ME to TEACH ME something that I needed to know.

PP - does the Junior Ilk come with a Junior Elk and sippy cups of virgin daq's??

JSwan

Jul. 28, 2009, 07:33 AM

PP - does the Junior Ilk come with a Junior Elk and sippy cups of virgin daq's??

DQ - it comes with... wait for it... Junior Mints!

I agree with the dumbing down of magazines. It's why I get so few these days. Personally, I'd rather read a well written article about issues in eventing rather than some fluff about hoof glitter or saddle pad fashion.

LisaB

Jul. 28, 2009, 08:04 AM

DairyQueen2049

Jul. 28, 2009, 08:26 AM

DQ - it comes with... wait for it... Junior Mints!

I agree with the dumbing down of magazines. It's why I get so few these days. Personally, I'd rather read a well written article about issues in eventing rather than some fluff about hoof glitter or saddle pad fashion.

*Bows to JSwan* :yes: :yes: :yes:

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
LOFFS it!!

I dunno, JSwan, mane styles and how to blunt cut the tail are very important skilz to someone. :rolleyes:

Bluey

Jul. 28, 2009, 08:35 AM

I love that the article created a discussion across most disciplines. EVERY discipline needs a wake up call to horrid falls.
And we need to learn to fall and we need to learn how to get out of the horse's way when we get into trouble. Those 2 things are the crux of the problem.
Parents need to know what their kids are getting into. And the kids and adult riders need to know how to cope with a problem. Across all horse sports, we have seriously lacked in this education.

Perspective, remember?

We also have to realize that we probably are more apt to be in a car wreck going to the barn than we will end up injured once around horses.

Good to talk about falls, but we don't need to dwell on it, any more than we do on the every day deaths on the highway, not even mentioning the many wrecks where people are just injured.

Some risks go along with being alive and just doing anything we may choose to do, be it get in a car or on a horse.
We need to put life and it's risks in perspective.:yes:

Frank B

Jul. 28, 2009, 08:57 AM

Hold it, I really am a rocket scientist...

Hey, same here! We were with NASA at the cape during Apollo and Skylab, doing electrical design of the propellants systems for the Sat IB & Sat V launch vehicles.

If we're gonna start an Ilk's Lodge, can we have slot machines? And will the bar serve Smegma Coolers?

I agree with the dumbing down of far too many horse magazines. My subscriptions are down to PH and The Horse. But it's a common problem, shared with Ham radio and astronomy. Just another side "benefit" of our failed "educational" system.

RAyers

Jul. 28, 2009, 09:04 AM

Hey, same here! We were with NASA at the cape during Apollo and the Skylab, doing electrical design of the propellants systems for the Sat IB & Sat V launch vehicles.

If we're gonna start an Ilk's Lodge, can we have slot machines? And will the bar serve Smegma Coolers?

I bow to you. You have a few years on me. I was Titan III/IV (mass properties for the solid rocket motors), Shuttle and ISS (payload design) and currently solid fuel/explosives design.

We're gonna have a lodge now?! Sweet!

As for a "EASY" way to learn to fall, I remember as a kid we had to learn a flying dismount at all gaits. Does anybody teach that anymore? I actually go back and practice those every so often so I am more comfortable in that I can "fall off" and be OK.

Reed

Frank B

Jul. 28, 2009, 09:08 AM

LisaB

Jul. 28, 2009, 09:13 AM

loshad

Jul. 28, 2009, 09:13 AM

FWIW, the worst fall I have ever witnessed was that of an experienced horse and rider combo (hunters) who were practicing pacing, turns, and striding over little crossrails in a lesson. The horse jumped 4' on the regular, was unimpressed by 18", dragged her feet, and manged a rotational fall over a jump that breaks. Luckily the rider fell one way and the horse the other and no one was hurt, but it could have been ugly.

To say that it doesn't happen in hunters or jumpers is just outright silly. It may happen less, but the possibility is still there. Why wouldn't we want to see an article that addresses how to come out of that kind of situation without injury? It's not like falls don't happen.

I haven't come off a horse for years (knocks wood furiously), but I think we all know that it's only a matter of time until I do (especially those of you who have actually seen me ride ;) ). When that happens, I'll thank the trainers who anticipated that event and taught me how to flip myself over and fall properly so that I don't break my head or an arm. If Suzy Horselover's dad is so very fragile he can't stand the thought that precious might fall from a horse, perhaps she's better off playing tennis.

magnolia73

Jul. 28, 2009, 09:19 AM

All I have to say about this thread and the article is that I personally REMOVED the PH from the viewing room of my barn for the sake of my lesson clientele (that is ALL Mr and Mrs Happy Horselovingdaughter needs to see!!! What they have to look forward to with their little princess...OMG)...It was the very WORST possible public relations disaster I have ever seen in print! I am horrified that PH thinks there is a way to "practice" life threatening falls and the related images of the bleeding horses was enough to make me toss that issue and maybe my 20 year plus subscription in the circular file.Anyone who thinks that this maneuver on the part of PH was positive might want to reconsider how this all looks to the innocent and naive spectator. It isnt pretty and you don't look like heroes you look like someone with a death wish, not only for yourselves but for their horses....wow..this one was certainly over the top.

That's great- but you can't sanitize riding. Proper dental care is required for horses- so is yucky stuff like sheath cleaning, rectal exams- you gonna make the vet go behind a screen when he needs to palpate a colicker so dear Muffy doesn't she his arm in the horses ass? Horses bleed. Teeth are pulled, needles go in joints, lacerations happen. Abcesses are lanced. Portions of hoof are removed aggressively.

And falls happen- I saw a girl take a dive this weekend during a 2'6 hunter class- horse landed, tripped, rider leaves in an ambulance. Bad falls are not the sole fault of eventing. I'm not saying that I don't agree with you- eventing needs to change- and one BIG part is rider education of which this article played a role.

Why not just leave out the Chronicle- oh yeah- teeth rings.... or the USEA newsletter...oopsie, pages of suspensions for drugging featuring the best and brightest. Well, how about just leave out the SmartPak catalog and call it a day.

monstrpony

Jul. 28, 2009, 09:21 AM

Just spent the first part of my day catching up on this thread by reading it backwards. Interesting, that.

bumknees

Jul. 28, 2009, 09:22 AM

Read this entire thread...
I guess I should be glad that my BIff's dont do horses as they maybe scared to get on one according to JulieD.. Perhaps I should protect them from the horrors of life as well.. The blood, guts, death,.. just to horrible to even imagine.. gee death imagine death being part of life and potentually brought on by doing a dangerious activity gee who would've thunk it...

mmm I guess im left leaning consertive as I had not yet thought of a way to blame the POTUS for the falls in eventing.. going to have to check my politimeter it must have been liberally educated when I was not looking...
I mean after all it must be his fault right? Perhaps I should try to come up with a way to blame him for none of my girths not fitting the very fat horse I reciently purchased after all it just has to be his fault ya know what I mean???

Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that hte Op has thus far declined the invite to say what disipline they partake in?

Can I have a tin helmet as well after all I must be of the same 'ilk' as others here who gee understand life and life with horses and what can occure when dealing with them... But maybe I dont qualtify I didnt vote for the current guy so I cant be of the same ilk... Please dont put me in the same ILk as the OP not all consertives are that looney... pretty please with sugar on top.. wait sugar is not allowed is it.. I know pretty please with nutrasweet on top.. wait no not that either.. pretty please with what ever artificial sweetner that is acceptable now...

Eventer55

Jul. 28, 2009, 09:22 AM

JSwan

Jul. 28, 2009, 09:25 AM

I remember as a kid we had to learn a flying dismount at all gaits. Does anybody teach that anymore?
Reed

Reed - I was taught that too. I don't know if it's taught anymore though.

But I was taught to bring my arms in and do the tuck and roll - and from the other thread in the eventing forum it seems that thinking may have changed? I think in my last bad fall the reason I broke my back was because I DID bring my arm in. Old habits die hard - but there is no way to tuck and roll when you come off backwards. That fall was just a series of errors.

I have fallen out hunting. A lot. I'm not an expert or very experienced in either sport but from what little I can tell hunting and eventing falls have some things in common. High speed, fixed obstacles.

Hunting has a few other risk factors not present in eventing and I'm sure you can imagine them so I won't list them.

I do perceive some differences though. Very generally, in hunting I see riders riding MUCH more defensively at all gaits. I also see horses that are MUCH more independent and sure of foot.

I'm not slamming eventing or asserting that foxhunters are superior. I left that mentality behind in elementary school.

Our sports publication, Covertside, has a series of wonderful wonderful articles on what foxhunters can learn from different disciplines. One thing I have noticed is that folks don't seem to think that they can learn anything from foxhunters.

I think that's a missed opportunity. There are many many old foxhunters, and many many old fieldhunters. There is a vast store of knowledge and skill that is not being tapped.

ETA - I think it's pretty obvious that She Who Must Not Be Named is a troll. And like all trolls - they hide when a light is shined on them.

RAyers

Jul. 28, 2009, 09:27 AM

Love those solids! Couldn't those Titans make the prettiest BFRCs?

Back in '59-'60 we did the "October Sky" thing with Zinc-Sulfur single-stagers. Got a few up around a couple of miles. Blew up a few, too! :lol:

I haven't heard BFRC is so long!!! They still give the EPA folks the fits. We are collaborating with ATK (formerly Morton Thiokol and Hercules). I actually "teach" how to make sugar motors as part of my materials class (I don't actually do it as it is a bit dangerous) to show how stability and energy release in materials are contradictory.

cowgirljenn

Jul. 28, 2009, 09:37 AM

If we're gonna start an Ilk's Lodge, can we have slot machines? And will the bar serve Smegma Coolers?

Awww.. I've always wanted to belong to a lodge. Now I have an Ilk Lodge. *happy tears*

(This is what happens when I am awakened way too early in the morning by a false alarm. I am tired and silly and the day may just go downhill from here :)).

Dispatcher

Jul. 28, 2009, 09:55 AM

At this point, given the level of riders that we are bringing into the world, I do have to disagree with you Bluey.
We all need a friggin' wake up call and learn how to cope when all is not well out there riding a horse.

That's for sure. Instead of being so consumed with what brand breeches and bridle to use, riders ought to be concentrating on aspects of the horse

Frank B

Jul. 28, 2009, 10:03 AM

I haven't heard BFRC is so long!!!

BFRC: Highly technical rocket scientist term for what's left when a rocket goes off course and has to be destroyed -- Big F***ing Red Cloud (http://www.millionface.com/l/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/exploson6.jpg).

drmgncolor

Jul. 28, 2009, 10:04 AM

If Suzy Horselover's dad is so very fragile he can't stand the thought that precious might fall from a horse, perhaps she's better off playing tennis.

IDK about that. Maybe they should stay at home and play Playstation or Wii. My friend was playing tennis, had a "rotational" fall and broke his wrist in multiple places, requiring surgery.

This thread, FWIW has been great. I can't wait to go get PH and read this *controversial* article. I am a firm believer we all need to know how to fall off. In fact, when I was little in my group lessons, my trainer would randomly yell "fall off" as we were trotting around and all of us munchkins would make an emergency dismount. Even though she wasn't the greatest instructor, I am glad I learned this as I have had to use it since in real situations.

harveyhorses

Jul. 28, 2009, 10:07 AM

First stop, somewhere to buy the article.
We can ride around never thinking about falls, so when they do happen they are worse. I am probably dating myself, but I learned the flying dismount, or how to fall off also. It is not something I 'think' about, it's just there, like feeling your diagonal. I have seen a lot of people make their falls worse, landing almost under their horse because they were trying so hard to stay on. Not that that is a choice with rotations.

P.S. May I join your Ilk??

Bluey

Jul. 28, 2009, 10:08 AM

---"I am a firm believer we all need to know how to fall off. In fact, when I was little in my group lessons, my trainer would randomly yell "fall off" as we were trotting around and all of us munchkins would make an emergency dismount. Even though she wasn't the greatest instructor, I am glad I learned this as I have had to use it since in real situations."---

We taught that as part of vaulting, although we didn't call the first few lessons on the longe line vaulting, just beginner classes.

Not all were asked to try that, mostly kids and young adults, although some mature folks were game to try.:)

Frank B

Jul. 28, 2009, 10:12 AM

I agree. As far as cross-discipline training for learning how to fall, it would seem the Vaulters could offer a lot of help.

omare

Jul. 28, 2009, 10:13 AM

LisaB

Jul. 28, 2009, 10:21 AM

If falling properly can save one horse and/or one rider, then it's worth it to take part in learning to fall.

MyGiantPony

Jul. 28, 2009, 10:23 AM

As for a "EASY" way to learn to fall, I remember as a kid we had to learn a flying dismount at all gaits. Does anybody teach that anymore? I actually go back and practice those every so often so I am more comfortable in that I can "fall off" and be OK.

Reed

Yup - I teach them to my kids. Start at the walk and build up to a canter. Make my students ride bareback every now and then too.

And OT - I saw a PBS special (wow, talk about liberal education) on Franklin Chang Diaz's research on a plasma rocket. He thinks it could get us from Earth to Mars in around 30 days. Cool stuff.

CDE Driver

Jul. 28, 2009, 10:38 AM

This is such a delightful and informative thread!

I am a carriage driver and I took a rotational fall. Well, at least I think it was. I rotated when I fell....out of the carriage.....at a stop....in the barn....while getting out of said carriage. Landed on my (helmeted) head in the barn aisle.

Seems fairly Ilkish to me. I think I need to add a tin foil body protector to my tin foil helmet cover.....

If I had read the article I may have known how to save myself from taking a header out of the carriage! But I am sure it is the fault of POTUS that I didn't!

cowgirljenn

Jul. 28, 2009, 10:42 AM

P.S. May I join your Ilk??

We'll even teach you the secret ilk-shake.

RAyers

Jul. 28, 2009, 10:42 AM

BFRC: Highly technical rocket scientist term for what's left when a rocket goes off course and has to be destroyed -- Big F***ing Red Cloud (http://www.millionface.com/l/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/exploson6.jpg).

Why did you show THAT picture? I remember that "accident." Propellant slump in the lower cases of the SRMs. Rained solid fuel all over and destroyed a bunch of cars. One of the cases literally almost pancaked a bunker.

When we were testing the SRMs it was NMBFRC (Never Mind the BFRC) and just stayed up wind.

omare, good point. However it is better to wonder that, than to simply deny that folks don't fall or there are no rotational falls. FYI, I have had several of my own over the years, including in the hunt field, arena and XC course. I think having to learn to fall as a kid made a huge difference in the potential outcome in those cases.

QUESTION: Has this topic been over-ilked?

Reed

JulieD

Jul. 28, 2009, 10:44 AM

once again--does this article suggest that the people who have died as a result of a rotational fall died because they did not know how to fall properly-- did PD survive his fall because he knew how to fall properly (and someone esle woud have died) or becasue of the nature of that particular rotational fall.

Admittedly the article bothered me as I knew someone killed as a result of a rotational fall--and I am sure they did not die because they did not know how to fall properly.Did Amanda Warrington die because she did not know how to fall--I seriously doubt it.

I would just be afraid that it might cause "magical thinking" --"I know how to fall therefore I can survive a rotational fall --therefore maybe I will not be cautious enough to avoid such falls at all cost. Saucer of milk ladies??? Whatever, I'm confident that Darwin will take care of this whole matter...now remember KICK ON...no matter what...KICK ON!!

Bravo Omare, you hit the nail directly on the head..the vitriol and arrogance displayed by the militant silkheads will only damage their own cause..their arrogance is exceeded only by their ignorance...NO ONE said that falls do not happen in the h/j world, or the dressage world, etc. etc. It's not like this is a professional journal seen only by those deeply embeded in the sport...my guess would be that most of the readers are casual riders and not die hard event nazi's. This type of negative publicity hurts all of us. All one has to do to get an idea of the mindset of silkheads is read a blog like Laney Ashker's..and if they have such a death wish perhaps they should volunteer to join up with our forces in Afghanistan to put all that courageous bravado to some good use, instead of killing themselves and their horses for fun and "sport".

TheHorseProblem

Jul. 28, 2009, 10:51 AM

Must I burn my bra to be of your ilk? Or can I just be a teeth-pulling, lesbian, wine-drinking-at-9-in-the-morning, POTUS supporting, liberal public skool edumacated ilk?
[ParkerRider]

About the teeth pulling, I went through the entire issue last night, and found no mention of teeth pulling or floating. However, on page 17 is a picture of a rider who needs to shorten her stirrups one hole and whose "boots are dirty, and her jeans and ponytail look sloppy."

The horror, the horror!

justdandy

Jul. 28, 2009, 10:51 AM

We'll even teach you the secret ilk-shake.

I prefer a chocolate ilk shake. Mmmmmmmmmmmmm.......

justdandy

Jul. 28, 2009, 10:54 AM

Saucer of milk ladies??? Whatever, I'm confident that Darwin will take care of this whole matter...now remember KICK ON...no matter what...KICK ON!!

Bravo Omare, you hit the nail directly on the head..the vitriol and arrogance displayed by the militant silkheads will only damage their own cause..their arrogance is exceeded only by their ignorance...NO ONE said that falls do not happen in the h/j world, or the dressage world, etc. etc. It's not like this is a professional journal seen only by those deeply embeded in the sport...my guess would be that most of the readers are casual riders and not die hard event nazi's. This type of negative publicity hurts all of us. All one has to do to get an idea of the mindset of silkheads is read a blog like Laney Ashker's..and if they have such a death wish perhaps they should volunteer to join up with our forces in Afghanistan to put all that courageous bravado to some good use, instead of killing themselves and their horses for fun and "sport".

Just an FYI, Julie. I'm not a krazy eventer. I'm a spayshul h/j'er and I still think you overreacted.

Ghazzu

Jul. 28, 2009, 10:54 AM

QUESTION: Has this topic been over-ilked?

Reed

Nah. I think we should ilk it for all it's worth.

JSwan

Jul. 28, 2009, 10:55 AM

I would just be afraid that it might cause "magical thinking" --"I know how to fall therefore I can survive a rotational fall --therefore maybe I will not be cautious enough to avoid such falls at all cost.

Well - that's why I kinda sorta brought up hunting. If you think about it - shouldn't all the foxhunters and field hunters in this country be dead, dying or disabled within a year or two after starting hunting?

Again, not saying it's superior to eventing. But it's the closest comparison I can come up with.

Think about what a foxhunter has to deal with three times a week, up to 4 hours at a time, 6 months out of the year.

No help. No ambulance on standby. No vets and equine ambulance. No frangible pins. Danger everywhere - and I mean real danger. Not just the chance of a rotational fall. Drag or live - jumping or hilltopping - danger is present.

We have, generally - a sandwich case, (these days folks often carry a bit of twine to fix a downed fence board, vetwrap or other small first aid product)multipurpose tool/wire cutters, a 4 fold stock tie, some folks in the desert carry a canteen and wear sunglasses. Most of us wear a helmet these days. That and a hunt whip or crop.

Generally - no boots or protective equipment on the horse. Saddle. Pad. Bridle. Maybe a martingale or breastplate.

No groomed course. Footing may change dramatically. We don't know where we'll end up - except maybe in a drag hunt.

I'm not thumping my chest.

What I think I'm trying to say is that in the back of our mind we know we're on our own.

While injuries and deaths happen - as a group it appears that we may have a different mindset. I don't perceive any "magical thinking". We know it's dangerous and help is far away or unavailable and what I perceive is that it is reflected in the riding. And the horses.

And I wonder if there may be something positive about that.

I too am feeling the love between liberal and conservative and am overcome with weeping.

Oh wait - never mind. That was a hot flash and drop in estrogen.